Comments on: The Future of EOS HD [CR2]

By: Bill

Bill — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:31:34 +0000

“Can’t we just get along the idea that a DSLR is not a video camera?” Sorry, but now that video exists on this DSLR it NOW becomes a video camera.

By: av

av — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:16:18 +0000

>> Technically speaking, the quality will be better if I were to convert 30P to 24 or 25P
Thats not true. Conversion from one frame rate to another is highly problematic and introduces blurring / artefacts. The older, simpler method that is still most widely used is a pulldown, such as a 3:2 pulldown. Its really nasty and essentially blurs frames together which introduces ghosting. Most NLEs still use this method.
The other method is to use intelligent retiming which interpolates through flow. This is very complex and slow and doesnt work in all circumstances. It can also introduce artefacts.

Thats why its important to shoot at the native rate you need. If the 5D2 shot at these rates, there’d be no discussion here.

By: rebelcat

rebelcat — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:27:29 +0000

I made numerous shots with the 5D2 in germany but with the manual control available now. The flicker problem is no problem. Shutter set to 1/50 and I never run into flicker problems. It could record 45fps, and there would not be a problem ;-)
Peter T. is absolute correct: It is a PITA to do the post process with that 30p stuff to do a normal PAL DVD. There are workarounds for that, but they do cost so much time and the most workflows are bad hacks. If I would blow up the workflow to achive best quality, it expandes postprocessing time to be 10 times longer. And because of all that tech waiting and conversion work you loose the look for the story.
The workflow is is the problem, and thats why I desperatly want the 25p update. The only, but important reason.

By: Maro

Maro — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:43:58 +0000

I’m new here with canon or any other cameras, so I want an answer about is that ok if I make a movie with 25 Hz film and use it in analyzing program as a 50 Hz film.
Is that ok the concept that we can divide the film was taken with 25f camera to be 50f.

By: Watch Veronica Mars

Watch Veronica Mars — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:50:06 +0000

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By: don

don — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:45:00 +0000

everything edited for pal countries is edited in 25fps so professionaly we want a camera that does that- simple. 30p is ok for filming the kids etc or web based…but 30p to 25p conversion is too problematic at moment.

By: fade

fade — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:53:55 +0000

no 25fps = no buy. new nikon is coming and you will get 25fps mode with it so i would wait for that.

By: rhervag

rhervag — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:06:37 +0000

the 50Hz issues exposed and solved :
flicker free shooting with the new firmware

http://www.vimeo.com/4991966

By: PhotoGeek Week# | Photogeek. Podcast for the geek photographer, professional, prosumer or keen beginner

Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:03:03 +0000

[...] perhaps a further update to come that supports 24p on the Canon 5D [...]

By: Simon

Simon — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:56:00 +0000

What is the meaning of “…This has introduced some problems in stability because the chip can only handle 30p natively and this is basically a hack. ”

The chip can only handle 30p natively. Which chip?

The DIGIC 4? The CMOS?

If it is the CMOS, is it possible to get 24 or 25 fps without tricks like the ones that we do in post, I mean get pure and exact 24 or 25 fps.

Simon

By: David

David — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:22:51 +0000

I can’t believe all these arguments! I’m a cameraman working in the uk, but I have shot in both ntsc(60hz) and pal(50hz) countries. It doesn’t matter if you are shooting film or video if you shoot at 25p in a ntsc(60hz) country you will very likely get flicker problems with lights, whether they are tungsten or florescent. This is because the refresh rate of the power supply is different from refresh rate of the camera. This is also true of shooting 30p in a pal(50hz) country for exactly the same reasons. Sometimes the flicker effect is subtle, sometimes not but it is 100% real! Sometimes you will hardly notice it on a small screen, but it will be very irritating on a big screen at the cinema! Of course, shooting exteriors lit by the sun will have no flicker problems whatever you do.

24p, 25p and 30p have slightly different looks but the difference is subtle, the main difference between the tv look and the cinema look is that is that traditionally tv (soaps, news, entertainment programs, cheap drama) has been shot interlace (50i or 60i) where as film and better quality video has been shot non-interlaced. In the case of film this has been 24 or 25 frames a second, or video 24p, 25p or 30p – meaning progressively scanned.

There is nothing inherently wrong with 30p, played backed it will still have that progressive or cinematic look but technically it will cause problems in europe and south america, both when shooting and in broadcast.

It is true that the flicker effect can sometimes be negated by careful use of the shutter, but this is not always possible and I personally want to use the shutter as creative tool not be forced to use it at a dictated setting just to stop flicker.

This camera needs 25p, not because of cinematic look or any of the many spurious reasons spread around the net, but because in a pal(50hz) country this is technically what it needs to be, and all other pal video cameras whether professional or consumer are.

By: Eric

Eric — Sun, 31 May 2009 10:59:48 +0000

please canon give us 25p or i will be forced to sell the 5D for something else not as exciting!!!!

Eric

By: Mike V

Mike V — Sun, 31 May 2009 04:15:24 +0000

As the cliche goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

25p is important for PAL countries with 50Hz power.
Discharge lighting like fluorescent, HMI, sodium vapour, mercury vapour etc. can all flicker very badly.

In a studio situation it isn’t a problem as you can use flicker free ballasts and the like.

However for location shooting where there may be street lights or domestic fluorescent lighting etc. or if you are using practical lights in-shot it can be a show stopper.

Constant lighting like tungsten lights with a filament or DC powered lighting like carbon arcs or Lightning Strikes SoftSuns etc. do not flicker at normal shooting speeds. When shooting at high speeds, any AC powered lighting can flicker, even tungsten.

For example in countries with 50 Hz power, when you are shooting with a film camera at 24 fps, you use a 172.8 degree shutter, to get an exposure time of 1/50 th of a second.
If it wasn’t important. Then film cameras wouldn’t have a shutter setting of 172.8 degrees.

25p is also very important in PAL countries to make a standard definition version of your product. It is very difficult to convert 30p to 25p and get a nice, smooth result.
It’s important to have a standard definition version of your product because there are few domestic HD distribution formats. Bluray is about the only popular one and it isn’t that popular. Supplying HD for Broadcast is no problem obviously, as there is a dearth of good HD formats.

Previously many of the big episodic shows in the States were shot on film, however most of the shows are now shooting digital with either Panavision Genesis, Sony F35 or Sony F23 cameras. This season in particular there was a huge exodus to digital in LA.

24P is important because it looks very different to 30p.
If you don’t understand or don’t agree, you should study this more as it is one of the rudiments of digital image-making.

By: luca

luca — Sun, 31 May 2009 01:10:58 +0000

you are right the real problem i the rendering, it takes ages and the result is not good!
i have tested it several times and was very disappointed!
i hope 25 will be a reality soon also with the 5D!!