Comments on: The Future of EOS HD [CR2] http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/ You gotta know Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:20:23 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: av http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-24697 av Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:16:18 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-24697 >> Technically speaking, the quality will be better if I were to convert 30P to 24 or 25P Thats not true. Conversion from one frame rate to another is highly problematic and introduces blurring / artefacts. The older, simpler method that is still most widely used is a pulldown, such as a 3:2 pulldown. Its really nasty and essentially blurs frames together which introduces ghosting. Most NLEs still use this method. The other method is to use intelligent retiming which interpolates through flow. This is very complex and slow and doesnt work in all circumstances. It can also introduce artefacts. Thats why its important to shoot at the native rate you need. If the 5D2 shot at these rates, there'd be no discussion here. >> Technically speaking, the quality will be better if I were to convert 30P to 24 or 25P
Thats not true. Conversion from one frame rate to another is highly problematic and introduces blurring / artefacts. The older, simpler method that is still most widely used is a pulldown, such as a 3:2 pulldown. Its really nasty and essentially blurs frames together which introduces ghosting. Most NLEs still use this method.
The other method is to use intelligent retiming which interpolates through flow. This is very complex and slow and doesnt work in all circumstances. It can also introduce artefacts.

Thats why its important to shoot at the native rate you need. If the 5D2 shot at these rates, there’d be no discussion here.

]]> By: rebelcat http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-12678 rebelcat Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:27:29 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-12678 I made numerous shots with the 5D2 in germany but with the manual control available now. The flicker problem is no problem. Shutter set to 1/50 and I never run into flicker problems. It could record 45fps, and there would not be a problem ;-) Peter T. is absolute correct: It is a PITA to do the post process with that 30p stuff to do a normal PAL DVD. There are workarounds for that, but they do cost so much time and the most workflows are bad hacks. If I would blow up the workflow to achive best quality, it expandes postprocessing time to be 10 times longer. And because of all that tech waiting and conversion work you loose the look for the story. The workflow is is the problem, and thats why I desperatly want the 25p update. The only, but important reason. I made numerous shots with the 5D2 in germany but with the manual control available now. The flicker problem is no problem. Shutter set to 1/50 and I never run into flicker problems. It could record 45fps, and there would not be a problem ;-)
Peter T. is absolute correct: It is a PITA to do the post process with that 30p stuff to do a normal PAL DVD. There are workarounds for that, but they do cost so much time and the most workflows are bad hacks. If I would blow up the workflow to achive best quality, it expandes postprocessing time to be 10 times longer. And because of all that tech waiting and conversion work you loose the look for the story.
The workflow is is the problem, and thats why I desperatly want the 25p update. The only, but important reason.

]]> By: Maro http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-12509 Maro Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:43:58 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-12509 I'm new here with canon or any other cameras, so I want an answer about is that ok if I make a movie with 25 Hz film and use it in analyzing program as a 50 Hz film. Is that ok the concept that we can divide the film was taken with 25f camera to be 50f. I’m new here with canon or any other cameras, so I want an answer about is that ok if I make a movie with 25 Hz film and use it in analyzing program as a 50 Hz film.
Is that ok the concept that we can divide the film was taken with 25f camera to be 50f.

]]> By: Watch Veronica Mars http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-12224 Watch Veronica Mars Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:50:06 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-12224 I like to watch Veronica Mars episodes as well Lost. I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future. I like to watch Veronica Mars episodes as well Lost. I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

]]> By: don http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-12143 don Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:45:00 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-12143 everything edited for pal countries is edited in 25fps so professionaly we want a camera that does that- simple. 30p is ok for filming the kids etc or web based...but 30p to 25p conversion is too problematic at moment. everything edited for pal countries is edited in 25fps so professionaly we want a camera that does that- simple. 30p is ok for filming the kids etc or web based…but 30p to 25p conversion is too problematic at moment.

]]> By: fade http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-12058 fade Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:53:55 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-12058 no 25fps = no buy. new nikon is coming and you will get 25fps mode with it so i would wait for that. no 25fps = no buy. new nikon is coming and you will get 25fps mode with it so i would wait for that.

]]> By: rhervag http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-11069 rhervag Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:06:37 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-11069 the 50Hz issues exposed and solved : flicker free shooting with the new firmware http://www.vimeo.com/4991966 the 50Hz issues exposed and solved :
flicker free shooting with the new firmware

http://www.vimeo.com/4991966

]]> By: PhotoGeek Week# | Photogeek. Podcast for the geek photographer, professional, prosumer or keen beginner http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-10781 PhotoGeek Week# | Photogeek. Podcast for the geek photographer, professional, prosumer or keen beginner Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:03:03 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-10781 [...] perhaps a further update to come that supports 24p on the Canon 5D [...] [...] perhaps a further update to come that supports 24p on the Canon 5D [...]

]]> By: Simon http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-10775 Simon Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:56:00 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-10775 What is the meaning of "...This has introduced some problems in stability because the chip can only handle 30p natively and this is basically a hack. " The chip can only handle 30p natively. Which chip? The DIGIC 4? The CMOS? If it is the CMOS, is it possible to get 24 or 25 fps without tricks like the ones that we do in post, I mean get pure and exact 24 or 25 fps. Simon What is the meaning of “…This has introduced some problems in stability because the chip can only handle 30p natively and this is basically a hack. ”

The chip can only handle 30p natively. Which chip?

The DIGIC 4? The CMOS?

If it is the CMOS, is it possible to get 24 or 25 fps without tricks like the ones that we do in post, I mean get pure and exact 24 or 25 fps.

Simon

]]> By: David http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/05/the-future-of-eos-hd-cr2/comment-page-1/#comment-10735 David Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:22:51 +0000 http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=2045#comment-10735 I can't believe all these arguments! I'm a cameraman working in the uk, but I have shot in both ntsc(60hz) and pal(50hz) countries. It doesn't matter if you are shooting film or video if you shoot at 25p in a ntsc(60hz) country you will very likely get flicker problems with lights, whether they are tungsten or florescent. This is because the refresh rate of the power supply is different from refresh rate of the camera. This is also true of shooting 30p in a pal(50hz) country for exactly the same reasons. Sometimes the flicker effect is subtle, sometimes not but it is 100% real! Sometimes you will hardly notice it on a small screen, but it will be very irritating on a big screen at the cinema! Of course, shooting exteriors lit by the sun will have no flicker problems whatever you do. 24p, 25p and 30p have slightly different looks but the difference is subtle, the main difference between the tv look and the cinema look is that is that traditionally tv (soaps, news, entertainment programs, cheap drama) has been shot interlace (50i or 60i) where as film and better quality video has been shot non-interlaced. In the case of film this has been 24 or 25 frames a second, or video 24p, 25p or 30p - meaning progressively scanned. There is nothing inherently wrong with 30p, played backed it will still have that progressive or cinematic look but technically it will cause problems in europe and south america, both when shooting and in broadcast. It is true that the flicker effect can sometimes be negated by careful use of the shutter, but this is not always possible and I personally want to use the shutter as creative tool not be forced to use it at a dictated setting just to stop flicker. This camera needs 25p, not because of cinematic look or any of the many spurious reasons spread around the net, but because in a pal(50hz) country this is technically what it needs to be, and all other pal video cameras whether professional or consumer are. I can’t believe all these arguments! I’m a cameraman working in the uk, but I have shot in both ntsc(60hz) and pal(50hz) countries. It doesn’t matter if you are shooting film or video if you shoot at 25p in a ntsc(60hz) country you will very likely get flicker problems with lights, whether they are tungsten or florescent. This is because the refresh rate of the power supply is different from refresh rate of the camera. This is also true of shooting 30p in a pal(50hz) country for exactly the same reasons. Sometimes the flicker effect is subtle, sometimes not but it is 100% real! Sometimes you will hardly notice it on a small screen, but it will be very irritating on a big screen at the cinema! Of course, shooting exteriors lit by the sun will have no flicker problems whatever you do.

24p, 25p and 30p have slightly different looks but the difference is subtle, the main difference between the tv look and the cinema look is that is that traditionally tv (soaps, news, entertainment programs, cheap drama) has been shot interlace (50i or 60i) where as film and better quality video has been shot non-interlaced. In the case of film this has been 24 or 25 frames a second, or video 24p, 25p or 30p – meaning progressively scanned.

There is nothing inherently wrong with 30p, played backed it will still have that progressive or cinematic look but technically it will cause problems in europe and south america, both when shooting and in broadcast.

It is true that the flicker effect can sometimes be negated by careful use of the shutter, but this is not always possible and I personally want to use the shutter as creative tool not be forced to use it at a dictated setting just to stop flicker.

This camera needs 25p, not because of cinematic look or any of the many spurious reasons spread around the net, but because in a pal(50hz) country this is technically what it needs to be, and all other pal video cameras whether professional or consumer are.

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