Comments on: Canon Pro2 [CR1]

By: Steve

Steve — Sun, 09 May 2010 00:48:18 +0000

The best compact cameras like LX3 and G11 have too little sensor (1/2 the one of old pro1) and the quality of the
pivctures and clips when it comes evening is too poor for what they cost.
The entusiast ideal travel camera cold have a 2.5x crop factor sensor ( 4x the one of G11 or LX3), 4x-5x zoom f2.8-4 , 1080 p video, and pocketable like the LX3
For this camera, i could pay more than for an entry level SRL or a 4/3 mirrorless, cause is a lot more confortable to carry ( always in my pocket ) and i don’t need all the quality of that cameras for travelling

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By: Bob

Bob — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:34:20 +0000

“You are making a lot of assumptions about Leica design decisions and why there is no AF”

I made no assumptions at all about Leica’s design decisions. Are you replying to someone else’s post?

By: David

David — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:33:16 +0000

Any advice from you is what not to do. I made no mistakes in what I wrote, you only misrepresent my comments by focusing on whether one camera is slightly bigger or weighs slightly more while failing to get any part of the point of the comment. Easy for you to criticize people while hiding behind your annonymous name, isn’t it, coward.

By: new-nonym

new-nonym — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:22:36 +0000

err how do you conclude what Canon and and can’t achieve in APS or FF EVILs (a 21st century design) from what Leica is doing in APS or FF rangefinder (20th or even 19th century design), and the cost of FF sensor , you forgot about it… just a hopeless case of an uninformed uninformaable. not going to waste any more time with, feel free to type the last comment that no one will read in this page.

By: new-nonym

new-nonym — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:16:26 +0000

You have made lots of mistakes and I’ve exposed them very well above, specifically, like your mistakes about the size comparisons of GH1-vs-Pro1 and EP1-vs-G11, you say that I tell my opinions as facts while you you have no clue bout my knowledge and in the same post you fail practice what you preach and do just the same by dismissing this Pro2 rumor as false..etc etc etc and you don’t comment about your exposed mistakes you just say that I misunderstand, misrepresent…etc of non supported by facts nonsense feel free to continue for infinity with this nonsense, you simply don’t have something new to bring to the table in a comments page like this, because you don’t have a good background (that’s based on the above mentioned mistakes, not hot air like your unsupported accusations), my personal advice to you is to read a little bit before making statements about things you don’t know.

By: David

David — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:20:31 +0000

Also, mr. annoymous, you again failed to state any specific compromise or problem with any m43 lens, so if you’re going to annonymously bash those lenses with such accusations, at least back it up with something specifically wrong with them, like vinetting when wide open on the Pro 1.

By: David

David — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:14:21 +0000

Mr. no name, you have done nothing but misrepresent and misunderstand my comments.

I’m not the one hiding my identity and making false accusations about people misleading the public. Click on my name and you’ll go right to my page with all my info, you coward.

You have done nothing but misrepresent and misunderstand my comments. The only habbit here is your inability to comprehend and your pension for knit picking over meaningless details: “Check out the profile on the Pro 1, not so sure it is smaller than the GH1, lol” – what part of this quote tells you I’m making an EXACT size comparison? Get a clue.

Canon has announced nothing about this Pro 2, and this is a CR1 RUMOR, so for you to claim my calling these specs fake without my saying “I think” is funny. IT’S A RUMOR. As for you having any inside knowledge at Canon, prove it mr. too affraid to even post your name in a forum so you can slam people annoymously.

By: David

David — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:56:49 +0000

The only reason you think I’m putting words in people’s mouth is from your own inability to comprehend them.

Again, you completely misunderstand the point and fail to read the context of the discussion, which in this case has nothing to do with price, particularly Leica’s overprice.

While I’d love to see a FF Leica knock off, that’s not what the point is here. The point is that it is possible to build compact interchangable lens cameras with larger than m43 sesnors in them and given Leica can do it with a FF sensor, making one for APS-C should be much easier (and cheaper). If you bother to actually read what I write in other posts on this topic you’ll notice I’m suggesting Canon one up the m43 platform with a larger sesnor, not a smaller one like these bogus Pro2 specs, PREFERABLY an APS-C sensor, although somthing between m43 and APS-C would be better than m43 too.

By: new-nonym

new-nonym — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:39:59 +0000

I am not assuming anything, it is just you as usual putting words in others’ mouths and implying that they don’t know much about the basics of photography. All I meant is that while you can point to EP1/GF1 and make meaningful comparisons (price-wise and tech-wise) with tiny-sensor compacts, you can’t do the same with the M9 because the price and tech are completely different and if there were a FF rangefinder with the same price as budget FF DSLRs, most people will prefer the latter because rangefinders are not everybody’s cup of tea. Also the current FF sensor cost – as reflected by the price difference between xxD/5D or between D300/D3 – makes most buyers go for crop sensor cameras, so if a FF EVIL is made it’ll have the same price disadvantage compared to APS-C or 4/3 EVILs, discouraging manufacturers from starting a new FF system on which there may not yet be enough demand.

By: new-nonym

new-nonym — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:13:21 +0000

I am not misrepresenting anything, it’s just your habit of putting words in others mouths (otherwise quote me, where did you find that i “can’t even tell the difference between noisy pro1 [and 40D] sensors”?!, i said exactly the opposite). You also have a habit of forgetting your own words eg WRT to pro1 and GH1 kit size comparison you wrote “Check out the profile on the Pro 1, not so sure it is smaller than the GH1, lol”, in reply to someone who said “The lens make a GH1 a lot bigger than a Pro1″.
Your comment about the name i use here is just silly, i didn’t know that telling your first name is bravery, the only things that these user names serve is that you can follow who said what and my name being different from the anonymous (no name) default is enough for that.
There is no knit picking about the weight difference between EP1(equipped with any lens) vs the G11 (with the lightest pancake prime EP1 is 20%-30% heavier than G11 that is not knit picking), and if you use the smallest zoom on EP1 then even the bulk is going to be considerably larger than G11, you seem to look at the specs of the body only and jump to the wrong conclusions both in the case of EP1-vs-G11 and GH1-vs-Pro1, a body only doesn’t take pictures, so its size and weight should not be compared to a fixed lens camera.
You don’t know up to this point how much canon inside knowledge i have, so it is not appropriate for you to claim that I “don’t know squat”, you see you are accusing me of talking about things i don’t know and you were doing exactly that same thing when you made that statement, if you have inside info to the contrary of what I said you can say so and even then it is still not proven who’s right and who’s wrong, we will know that only when things become official. Finally I note that at one point you said “ALL of my comments are my own opinions and I make that clear”, at another point you say “The fake specs of this Pro 2″ not preceded or followed by anything like “I think” or “IMO”, so at least take care that you adhere to your own standards.

By: Tom S

Tom S — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:35:47 +0000

At one time I had both a digital and film Rebel. They were pretty much the same body except the film one had a large mirror box. Shove the digital rebel guts over a bit and I’m sure they could make a full frame in that size.

Optics challenges aside, I don’t see the need for the “brains” of the camera to be that much more than the SD series. So making a APS-C or FF compact would be more about fitting all those buttons and features on a body that still handles relatively well.

By: David

David — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:06:31 +0000

Do not misrepresent my comments and then call your misrepresentations of them misleading, mr. anonymous who’s too affraid to make such accusations with your own name on them.

I made no absolute direct comparison of the GH1 with the 14-140mm lens to the Pro 1, I only pointed out the Pro 1 is not a pocket camera and has a protruding lens even when turned off, as does the GH1.

You want to knit pick over weight of the EP1 & G11, whatever…

You, again, make wild claims of alleged compromises on m43 lenses…what are you talking about specifically? At least they don’t vinette like the Pro 1′s L lens when wide open.

The fake specs of this Pro 2 are not a stop gap or any kind of competition to EVIL cameras, which have the benefit of multiple lenses as well as adaptors for EF and other lenses. If you don’t like interchangable lenses that’s your problem.

You want to spend $1000 for a fixed lens camera, have at it, you and two other guys I’m sure will run out and spend your dollars on it.

Now, as far as misrepresentations go, you write “basically canon is waiting for the tech of EVIL systems to mature…” – you don’t know squat about what Canon is doing so stop representing that you do. ALL of my comments are my own opinions and I make that clear, yet you are here telling us all what Canon is doing as if you know.

Besides, you can’t even tell the difference between noisy small sensor Pro 1 shots and those from your 40D…nice.

By: new-nonym

new-nonym — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:57:31 +0000

Get your size comparisons right, so that you don’t inadvertently mislead the uninformed readers!!! Some posts above, you said that GH1+14-140′s size/profile is same as Pro1 while in reality the profiles are 142mm vs 90mm respectively, and now you say EP1 is same as G11, this is only works if you stick a pancake prime to the EP1 and even then the EP1+prime is heavier than the G11 by the weight of the prime and a little extra (100-150g on top of ~350g).

About 40D vs a hypothetical Canon APS EVIL, of course the latter would be lighter, but here again the question is whether or not canon is willing to introduce such new system in the near future. I believe not, for the reasons that i have just explained above in another reply to you (basically canon is waiting for the tech of EVIL systems to mature, to note here is that every m4/3 lens so far has been compromisingly designed to make its AF elements light weight so that they can be moved by CDAF, this has meant either slow max aperture or limited zoom power or both to keep the weight down, a different AF solution may emerge in future that established systems like m4/3 won’t be able to switch to). If you can imagine for a second that canon doesn’t want to start now, and think about what they can do meanwhile instead as an answer to the likes of GF1, EP1 & GXR, you’ll see that they better have something than nothing, and that they need their answering camera to (1) have a lens with some good focal range and aperture speed because it’s a fixed lens, and (2) be as compact as possible in the same time ‘cos that with a large sensor is the main point of the new segment. (3) #1+ #2 dictate that the sensor MUST be RELATIVELY small. Something along the lines of this pro2 would serve both as a field of (R&D) experiments and a stop gap. No matter how unsuccessful a fixed lens camera may turn out to be, it is many magnitudes less of a problem than a system whose standards are bad as a result of being set too early in a hurry, and then can’t be changed without a PR disaster.