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Author Topic: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth  (Read 21845 times)

CTJohn

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #150 on: September 11, 2013, 08:06:40 AM »

Isn't DNG an Adobe product?  Why would I put files in that format, when I have no idea what they're going to do with it in the future?  They aren't winning a lot of friends with their business strategies.

The DNG format is an free and completely open format developed by Adobe, just like pdf's. Converting files to DNG does not destroy your original, you have several options, one, make a copy (this doesn't touch your original), or two, make a copy and include the original RAW file inside it (again, this doesn't touch your original).

Doing this via the free fully supported DNG convertor just means Adobe have given you the ability to use unsupported newer cameras in older software, entirely for free, without touching your original image file. Name me one other software company that does that.

There are good reasons to chastise the corporate way we seem to be racing towards, but I really don't believe Adobe deserve most of the hysteria and inaccurate hyperbole being thrown at them.
I think you're missing my point.  If I do processing in Adobe's format (DNG), then unless I want to re-process at some point in the future when Adobe decides not to support DNG, I'm once again at their whim.

If I carry RAW and DNG in my computer, I have the above issue and eat up more of my hard drive as well.

I repeat my question, do you work for Adobe?

When did you first ask if I worked for Adobe? Don't bother, I don't, never have, never will.

I believe you are missing my point, and the capabilities Adobe have given you.

You say you have CS5 and a 6D and the RAW files will not open in your version of ACR? Here are a couple of workarounds that Adobe have left for us, but first, what format do you currently save your CS5 work in?
  • Download DNG Convertor, convert a copy of your RAW file to DNG, open in CS5's ACR, process, open in CS5 process. Save as--------  This is where you are being obtuse, you always have to save your PS file as something, save it to whatever you save it now, TIFF, jpeg, PSD etc etc you don't need to save as a DNG, you just need to open it as one to work your new cameras files in your older software.
  • Upgrade to CS6
  • Pay $99 to get the CC version of ACR via Lightroom 5

So, one free option that doesn't touch your RAW file, one modest cost option that vastly increases your functionality that also doesn't touch your RAW file, CC/LR5's ACR is way better than CS5's ACR, and one marginal upgrade cost that gets your 6D files open but doesn't future proof you for long and doesn't get you the best available ACR, and oh, doesn't touch your RAW file.

The only difference to your current workflow is converting a copy of your RAW file to DNG to open it in CS5's ACR, it takes no more HDD space, it doesn't touch your original RAW file and your CS5 output file s identical to your current CS5 output files. Adobe provided and support that functionality entirely free. Again, give me one example of any other software company that provides a free fully supported program that means you can continue using old versions of their software with new hardware (new, expensive, cameras that's files are only unreadable because the camera manufacturers refuse to adopt any kind of RAW standard).

As has been said, DNG is an open format, it is far more likely that future third party software will be able to read DNG's than PSD's, or even some legacy RAW files.

For the record, whilst I have tested this to see if it works as I say (it does I have copies of CS4 and CS5 on older boot drive clones) I do not use DNG's as I have no need, I went the CS6 and LR5 route as, for me, that makes far and away the most sense.
I'm replying on my very old laptop, purchased long before I purchased CS5.  The Windows Vista program in this laptop surely cost a lot less than what I paid Adobe for CS5 Extended, is updated continually by Microsoft, and so far, seems to work with all programs I choose.

Regarding Adobe, as far as I know, I never use ACR except behind the scenes.  With RAW images from my 7D, I import them into my Lightoom catalog, then can use "Photo- Edit In", and either open as an image, or merge to panorama, merge to HDR, open as smart object, or open as layers.  Lightroom tells me this version of Lightroom (happened in both 4 and 5) may require Camera Raw plug-in 8.1, but gives me the option of "Render Using Lightroom" and I'm fine.  The images open as TIFs in Photoshop.

With RAW images from the 6D, the HDR, panorama, open as smart object, and open as layers options don't give me the "Open with Lightroom" option, only offering "Open Anyway."  When I click that, nothing opens in Photoshop.  So far, that means I've lost the functionality of those actions, which were among the ones I used the most.  I've had to export as TIF, then import the TIFs back into my catalog, and then import into CS5.....not a huge problem, but not the functionality I thought I was buying.

I'm an amateur, and not a heavy user of Photoshop, but invested a lot of time, and Lynda.com cost learning how to use the program.  I haven't seen anything dramatic for my usage that says I need to update to the most recent version of Photoshop, but Adobe seems to think otherwise.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 09:02:20 AM by CTJohn »
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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #150 on: September 11, 2013, 08:06:40 AM »

Jim O

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #151 on: September 11, 2013, 11:30:00 AM »
Again, for those of you with CS5 who cannot open RAW files from their 6D, blame Canon, not Adobe. It's Canon that keeps changing the format and not documenting it openly. As I said, older versions of DPP, Canon's own software, won't open RAW files from the 6D. If Canon would make its file format backward compatible, there would be no issue opening your files in older versions of PS.

DNG was indeed created by Adobe, but it's a fully open format with no license or royalty fees. It's also totally non-destructive. As far as I understand, all metadata is preserved.

DNG is not perfect. Ideally camera manufacturers would open their RAW formats and publicly document all versions starting from the beginning. They don't. Again, this is not the fault of Adobe.

Absent that, there could be an independent standard that is not created by any company. Even then, I doubt Canon or Nikon would use it, simply because they want to retain control. Think Adobe is the only bad guy? When the 6D puts distortion data into a RAW file, it can only be read by DPP, not even by ACR. Now who has control of your creations?

Since neither of the above has happened, DNG, being open, fully open since the beginning, at least attempts to deal with this situation by allowing RAW files from any camera (so long as there is a converter available, and that's not Adobe's responsibility either) to be placed in a standardized format that can be read 20, 30, even 50 years from now, since the format has been fully and openly documented since the beginning, and is licensed royalty free to anyone who wants to use it.

As of now Pentax offers the option to save files as DNG. So do a bunch of smaller manufacturers. There are also dozens of non-Adobe products that can open and work with DNG files.

DNG is not the optimal solution. Full documentation by the camera manufacturers is. But they're not likely ever to do that. DNG is an alternative. It's not the best solution but it's better than proprietary formats like CR2.

When people see you arguing with an idiot on the internet, all they see is two idiots arguing.

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Re: Adobe Announces Photoshop & Lightroom for $9.99/mth
« Reply #151 on: September 11, 2013, 11:30:00 AM »