December 18, 2014, 11:48:24 PM

Author Topic: 6D- An amateur's review  (Read 19713 times)

kkelis

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 11:20:55 AM »
Got my 6D the other day and the only thing i'm disappointed so far it's the ergonomics and the cheap feel of the body and buttons. It simply doesn't compare with my 5D II. Ofcourse i was not expecting the same build quality as the 5DII ( that's 5D3 territory) but i was expecting something better than this.
I plan getting the battery grip, hopefully the extra size will help balance out my 70-200

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 11:20:55 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 11:26:27 AM »
I'm curious how much difference there is in other situations. Do you really get significantly better detail, colour, etc at "normal" ISO?

At iso 100-200 and straight out of camera shots you most likely won't see any difference, iso 400 is also very ok on current Canon crop sensors. Unlike the competition, at 100% magnification Canon crop shots display a little grain at any iso, a fact often criticized but imho nothing to worry about too much until...

... the big difference shows when you start postprocessing, the raw files from full frame are much more elastic meaning better gradients and plain color areas (red is a problem for Canon, esp. on crop), a bit more dynamic range plus sharpening simply works better. As for banding when raising shadows, with Canon it rather depends on the camera model than the sensor: 6d seems to be a bit better than 5d3 which in turn is much better than 5d2, and on the crop side 7d is worst, newer models gradually seem to improve.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 12:26:41 PM »
The 6D is a good choice for someone moving up from a Rebel who wants to do so without breaking the bank.

roguewave

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 12:27:05 PM »
Marsu42, thank you! I think that's a very good comparison - it definitely matches my experience with crop sensors :-).

The reason I asked for side-by-site shots is that a few posters mentioned a significant jump in IQ going from crop to FF. I'd imagine a good lens would produce quite similar results on both at lower ISO (aside from FOV difference), but I could be wrong. Or perhaps the posters also meant IQ after post-processing, as you mentioned.

Marsu42

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 12:33:12 PM »
I'd imagine a good lens would produce quite similar results on both at lower ISO (aside from FOV difference), but I could be wrong. Or perhaps the posters also meant IQ after post-processing, as you mentioned.

Probably, and as I really like my 60d I somewhat hate to say it - after proper postprocessing and sharpening, the 6d shots blow the crop sensor out of the water when it comes to fine details like fur (using the 100L which is good on both sensors) - I have shot the same scenes with my 60d & 6d, though I'm too lazy to dig them out atm :-p

Zlyden

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 12:48:44 PM »
The reason I asked for side-by-site shots is that a few posters mentioned a significant jump in IQ going from crop to FF.

Well, what exactly do you want to see and what lens do you want the samples made with?

1) If you will try to compare 'camera JPEGs' the huge difference will be the DIGIC brains that do RAW -> JPEG conversion (with lens correction, ALO, etc.). (In case of XTi to 6D comparison, 6D is the Einstein and XTi is the caveman :) )

2) If you will try to compare 'camera RAWs' you will be at mercy of RAW conversion software camera presets (and number of bits in RAW data -- 6D has more than XTi).

PS: In my experience it's the FOV that makes the main difference. I used to shoot with XTi and 10-22 + 24-105 lens pair for years, and I always considered '24-105' as normal-to-tele lens (and I did not use it very often). The 6D changes the picture, now all my EF lenses make very (and I do mean 'VERY!') different pictures...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 12:51:28 PM by Zlyden »
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roguewave

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2013, 01:08:48 PM »
Marsu42, if you later feel like digging out your comparison photos, I'd like to see the difference. I can imagine that 6D has better IQ than just about as many pixels crammed onto 2.5 times smaller area, but is it dramatically better for monitor viewing / moderate size prints, or only fine fur details noticeable at 100%?

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2013, 01:08:48 PM »

Janbo Makimbo

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2013, 01:26:39 PM »
It's clear that 6D would produce better IQ than crop sensor if high ISO or shallow DOF is required. I'm curious how much difference there is in other situations. Do you really get significantly better detail, colour, etc at "normal" ISO? I'd appreciate if anybody could post a comparison shots taken with 6D and a crop.
Yes.

roguewave

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2013, 01:34:54 PM »
Well, what exactly do you want to see and what lens do you want the samples made with?

1) If you will try to compare 'camera JPEGs' the huge difference will be the DIGIC brains that do RAW -> JPEG conversion (with lens correction, ALO, etc.). (In case of XTi to 6D comparison, 6D is the Einstein and XTi is the caveman :) )

2) If you will try to compare 'camera RAWs' you will be at mercy of RAW conversion software camera presets (and number of bits in RAW data -- 6D has more than XTi).

PS: In my experience it's the FOV that makes the main difference. I used to shoot with XTi and 10-22 + 24-105 lens pair for years, and I always considered '24-105' as normal-to-tele lens (and I did not use it very often). The 6D changes the picture, now all my EF lenses make very (and I do mean 'VERY!') different pictures...

I agree with you. So yeah, I didn't consider JPEG. I also didn't mean FOV, because that's an obvious difference.

Other than that, I didn't have anything specific in mind. Because several reviewers mentioned that IQ is a BIG upgrade from crop, I just wanted to see an example, whatever shots they choose (other than high ISO) and see for myself how big the difference is.

I remember a landscape scene comparison on POTN between 7D and 5DII. While FF looked slightly better with color and detail / contrast, at web resolution it was not a huge difference by any means.

roguewave

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2013, 01:35:49 PM »
It's clear that 6D would produce better IQ than crop sensor if high ISO or shallow DOF is required. I'm curious how much difference there is in other situations. Do you really get significantly better detail, colour, etc at "normal" ISO? I'd appreciate if anybody could post a comparison shots taken with 6D and a crop.
Yes.

Example, please :-).

Marsu42

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2013, 01:42:13 PM »
but is it dramatically better for monitor viewing / moderate size prints, or only fine fur details noticeable at 100%?

Ah, now I though that would be a given - for downsizing to the usual sizes crop is really fine, otherwise they wouldn't sell tons of them, would they?

That's why I was so reluctant to make the ff jump as you can get a stellar lens for €1500, but the sensor iq is just one part, it's the combination with shallower dof and different lens performance that matters as all my lenses are ef and perform better on ff.

roguewave

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2013, 02:15:30 PM »
but is it dramatically better for monitor viewing / moderate size prints, or only fine fur details noticeable at 100%?

Ah, now I though that would be a given - for downsizing to the usual sizes crop is really fine, otherwise they wouldn't sell tons of them, would they?

That's why I was so reluctant to make the ff jump as you can get a stellar lens for €1500, but the sensor iq is just one part, it's the combination with shallower dof and different lens performance that matters as all my lenses are ef and perform better on ff.

Well, there is a difference between being just "fine" and being "almost as great as FF" :-).

I assume most 6D buyers don't make large prints on a regular basis. If the difference with crop is only apparent under magnification, it might make more sense to go with the 70D, which is cheaper and better in almost every other way - unless you really need low light capabilities and / or shallow DOF.

If, on the other hand, a viewer could immediately tell a FF shot from a crop sensor shot of the same scene under normal viewing and shot using comparably good lenses, then yeah, the jump to 6D is totally worth it.

That's exactly what I am trying to find out :-).

Marsu42

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2013, 02:36:46 PM »
If, on the other hand, a viewer could immediately tell a FF shot from a crop sensor shot of the same scene under normal viewing and shot using comparably good lenses, then yeah, the jump to 6D is totally worth it.

Imho the only correct answer won't make you happy: it depends on the scene.

Some crop shots are indistinguishable from ff or respond very well do noise reduction (not that there are great new algorithms like DxO's PRIME around), and for me some crop macro shots look even superior to ff because the crop "crisp" look goes along with the subject's texture.

Then again, if shooting gradients crop quickly falls apart after some postprocessing because downsizing cannot restore a smooth color transition, or with skin tones and skin texture every bit of nr smudging given an instant plastic look even at low magnification.

If you are not sure about 6d or 70d, my advise definitely would be 70d because it's the better all-around camera, the 6d specializes and excels in some areas but is crippled in others. Just be sure you know what "low light" means (try to meter the LV with your current gear) because even in cloudy daylight crop shooting can become a constant struggle to decide between lower iso or higher shutter speed, resulting in less keepers - the higher iso capability of ff relieves you of that tradeoff and you can concentrate more on the actual shot.

What's your current gear btw? If on a budget it might make sense to go with a 60d and get a better lens, or if you're looking for good iq Canon crop isn't a good choice at all and you should have a look at Nikon...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 02:47:21 PM by Marsu42 »

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2013, 02:36:46 PM »

MichaelHodges

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2013, 03:13:36 PM »
It's clear that 6D would produce better IQ than crop sensor if high ISO or shallow DOF is required. I'm curious how much difference there is in other situations. Do you really get significantly better detail, colour, etc at "normal" ISO? I'd appreciate if anybody could post a comparison shots taken with 6D and a crop.

The difference is enormous. I think the closest crop camera is the 40D, which seemed to have a very nice balance of pixels/DR. But as far as the 7D, 60D, 70D,  there's no comparison. No noise in the blue channel at ISO 100, no fear off using auto ISO, much sharper image, better color separation, more consistent exposure, etc.

CarlTN

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2013, 03:29:24 PM »
Got my 6D the other day and the only thing i'm disappointed so far it's the ergonomics and the cheap feel of the body and buttons. It simply doesn't compare with my 5D II. Ofcourse i was not expecting the same build quality as the 5DII ( that's 5D3 territory) but i was expecting something better than this.
I plan getting the battery grip, hopefully the extra size will help balance out my 70-200

I have a Meike battery grip, and I like it pretty well.  No doubt it pales by comparison to the Canon one, but at 1/4 the price, I can more than live with that.  It feels a lot less solid than the body alone, but the grip itself is very nice when you need to shoot in portrait mode.  I actually have mostly only used it with the one battery, rather than two...so the weight/balance isn't as ideal as with two batteries.  I still enjoy using it on occasion, when the need arises. 

As for your opinion of the lack of solidity, I disagree.  I've tried a 5D2 in the past.  It's simply a matter of the amount of force it takes to press buttons and move dials.  With the 6D, they wanted less force applied, and I happen to like that decision.  It feels no less solid to me.  The clicks of the dials feel very snappy and definite.  Certainly it makes the 5D2 and 5D3 feel like bricks by comparison, but if that's what you want, you should have bought the 5D3.  Weight does not equal rigidity, though...not at all.  Not saying the 6D is more rigid, just saying rigidity is not its problem.

Specifically on the feel of the shutter button, I happen to like the feel of the 6D's better than all other Canon cameras I've owned, rented, or tried including an older Rebel, a 50D, 60D, 7D, 5D2, 5D3, 1D4, 1Ds3, and 1DX.  Worst of all, at least to my memory, was the shutter button of the 7D, with the 5D3 being very similar.  Far too mushy and no transition between half pressing and fully depressed.  Hopefully they will fix this with the 5D4.

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Re: 6D- An amateur's review
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2013, 03:29:24 PM »