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Author Topic: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?  (Read 5043 times)

entlassen

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600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« on: December 04, 2013, 03:49:56 AM »
I know that with two 600EX-RTs or one 600EX-RT + ST-E3-RT, that the off-camera flash unit has a button that can act as a remote shutter release.

My questions are:
1) Can you half-press the button to make the camera Auto-Focus, and then full-press the button to take the shot? 

2) If you hold down the button, can you shoot in continuous burst?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if the button on the 600EX-RT acts exactly like the camera's shutter button.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 03:52:11 AM by entlassen »

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600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« on: December 04, 2013, 03:49:56 AM »

privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 11:53:29 AM »
I know that with two 600EX-RTs or one 600EX-RT + ST-E3-RT, that the off-camera flash unit has a button that can act as a remote shutter release.

My questions are:
1) Can you half-press the button to make the camera Auto-Focus, and then full-press the button to take the shot? 

2) If you hold down the button, can you shoot in continuous burst?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if the button on the 600EX-RT acts exactly like the camera's shutter button.

Thanks!

1) NO YOU CANNOT. It is a one press deal, if you are in AF and it can't acquire focus it won't shoot, but it is not a two stage press like the conventional remotes. There are no half presses, focus and shutter are activated together, it doesn't work like a shutter button, you can't acquire focus without taking a picture.

2) NO YOU CANNOT. One push one picture (or not if the AF was on and it didn't acquire focus).

Effectively no, it does not act like a regular shutter button.

I use this feature a lot and there are a couple of quirks, a 600 EX-RT has to be the trigger, the one in your hand, the ST-E3-RT cannot do the triggering so must be on the camera.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 11:56:21 AM by privatebydesign »
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entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 12:15:24 PM »
I know that with two 600EX-RTs or one 600EX-RT + ST-E3-RT, that the off-camera flash unit has a button that can act as a remote shutter release.

My questions are:
1) Can you half-press the button to make the camera Auto-Focus, and then full-press the button to take the shot? 

2) If you hold down the button, can you shoot in continuous burst?

Basically I'm trying to figure out if the button on the 600EX-RT acts exactly like the camera's shutter button.

Thanks!

1) NO YOU CANNOT. It is a one press deal, if you are in AF and it can't acquire focus it won't shoot, but it is not a two stage press like the conventional remotes. There are no half presses, focus and shutter are activated together, it doesn't work like a shutter button, you can't acquire focus without taking a picture.

2) NO YOU CANNOT. One push one picture (or not if the AF was on and it didn't acquire focus).

Effectively no, it does not act like a regular shutter button.

I use this feature a lot and there are a couple of quirks, a 600 EX-RT has to be the trigger, the one in your hand, the ST-E3-RT cannot do the triggering so must be on the camera.


Thanks for the clarification.  When shooting with a speedlight, what solutions do people usually use who need a remote trigger that has half-press AF shutter release?  What I mean is that most of the wireless remote shutters I see require a receiver brick to be mounted onto the hot-shoe (and run a cable from the receiver to the camera body), but that means I can't put a flash unit on that hot-shoe.

entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 12:17:33 PM »
Also, does anyone with a Yongnuo YN622C know if the Test Fire button on those transceivers support the two functions I outlined in my first post (half-press to AF and hold-down for continuous burst)?

tphillips63

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 12:22:54 PM »
Canon Remote Switch RS-80N3 can do half press just like the shutter button but of course is a wired connector.
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entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 12:51:46 PM »
Canon Remote Switch RS-80N3 can do half press just like the shutter button but of course is a wired connector.

I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find.  Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about.  What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 02:58:26 PM »
I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find.  Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about.  What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.

My hähnel Giga T Pro II does half-press half press for AF, full press for release or continuous burst.  It connects to the remote port, so while the receiver can be mounted in the hotshoe, it doesn't need to be (which is good, as that's where the ST-E3-RT sits. 
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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 02:58:26 PM »

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 03:20:02 PM »
In trying to help I don't understand why you are trying to do what you say you want.

You want a flash in the hot shoe and a two stage release for remote shooting, I understand that, but I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera, you either want a picture or you don't, it would seem to me.

So what are you shooting, what distances from the camera, and the environment, and why do you feel the need to separate the functions?

If you can fill in some blanks, so we know what you are trying to achieve, I am sure we can help.

P.S. My $20 Yongnuo RF-602's do wireless two stage remote shutter triggering, the button works exactly like a shutter button. You can mount it in the hot shoe or leave it hanging, like Neuro'sGiga T Pro  II it triggers via the remote port so it doesn't matter where the receiver is.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 03:27:58 PM by privatebydesign »
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entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 03:31:28 PM »
I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find.  Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about.  What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.

My hähnel Giga T Pro II does half-press half press for AF, full press for release or continuous burst.  It connects to the remote port, so while the receiver can be mounted in the hotshoe, it doesn't need to be (which is good, as that's where the ST-E3-RT sits.

When your ST-E3-RT is on the hotshoe, do you just have your hahnel receiver dangling from a wire off the 3-pin port or something?

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 03:38:06 PM »
As the other poster says, without knowing the set up ( studio, outdoors, remote control helicopter) it's hard to give specific advice. Here's some ideas that might help ?

Using flash to fire the camera could be done using a optical slave attached the remote trigger port. I use pocket wizards to shoot remotely, which allows me to shoot with no cords attached to the camera. Such as used in the shot attached to shoot all day long. If the lens is set to autofocus it won't allow the shutter to release unless the focus zone selected is focused, so no need to have the half pressed in that situation. You could also look at a optical slave connected to a pocketwizard also if you have multiple flashes. ( as a note* any pocket wizzard can fire a canon speed light remotely if  attached to their Flex TTL5)

You could look at software also if the environment is controlled. Capture one has the option to shoot remotely from the laptop. I have not tried it wirelessly, but often shoot like this tethered with USB. They have a capture pilot app that works on ipad and laptop that could help. You could research this. Also, note the Capture One Live View mode for realtime previews from another device. Without seeing a preview I am not sure that you'd know the camera was in focus anyway... if you didn't trust the autofocus.
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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 03:42:24 PM »
I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera

Are you asking why having the ability to half-press a remote to AF is important?  Well first of all, pretty much every wired or wireless remote has this feature (i.e. imitates the camera's shutter behavior).

If I want to shoot on a tripod (as opposed to hand-holding the camera), it's usually in scenarios where I want absolutely no vibrations whatsoever.  That means no hands touching the camera.  If you go through the trouble of carrying a tripod around the field and buying a remote control shutter to reduce vibrations, it kind of defeats the point if for every shot you have to first put your hands on the camera's shutter to focus and introduce new vibrations.  Not only does that force me to come back to the camera before every shot where I want to engage AF (negating the benefits of shooting remotely), but I waste time waiting for the vibrations introduced by my hand to dissipate from the camera before I can trip the shutter.  Remote shutter releases usually have the "half-press to AF" feature for these reasons.

People pay big bucks and go to extreme lengths to reduce vibrations.  You probably have seen those long discussion threads about 3-legged vs 4-legged tripods.  You don't buy a $500+ Gitzo, a $400 RSS ballhead, and a $140 L-bracket only to muck it all up by putting your hands on the camera every time you want to engage the AF.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 03:46:58 PM by entlassen »

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 04:10:11 PM »
I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find.  Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about.  What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.

My hähnel Giga T Pro II does half-press half press for AF, full press for release or continuous burst.  It connects to the remote port, so while the receiver can be mounted in the hotshoe, it doesn't need to be (which is good, as that's where the ST-E3-RT sits.

When your ST-E3-RT is on the hotshoe, do you just have your hahnel receiver dangling from a wire off the 3-pin port or something?
If you're worried about vibrations caused by the very light receiver hanging from the port and swinging in the wind, you can velcro it to a tripod leg or mount:

Or if you get really anal, you can use the thread in the base of the receiver and mount it with a more solid option:

Such as clamping it onto a tripod leg:
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 04:19:52 PM by rs »
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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 04:29:06 PM »
I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera

Are you asking why having the ability to half-press a remote to AF is important?  Well first of all, pretty much every wired or wireless remote has this feature (i.e. imitates the camera's shutter behavior).

If I want to shoot on a tripod (as opposed to hand-holding the camera), it's usually in scenarios where I want absolutely no vibrations whatsoever.  That means no hands touching the camera.  If you go through the trouble of carrying a tripod around the field and buying a remote control shutter to reduce vibrations, it kind of defeats the point if for every shot you have to first put your hands on the camera's shutter to focus and introduce new vibrations.  Not only does that force me to come back to the camera before every shot where I want to engage AF (negating the benefits of shooting remotely), but I waste time waiting for the vibrations introduced by my hand to dissipate from the camera before I can trip the shutter.  Remote shutter releases usually have the "half-press to AF" feature for these reasons.

People pay big bucks and go to extreme lengths to reduce vibrations.  You probably have seen those long discussion threads about 3-legged vs 4-legged tripods.  You don't buy a $500+ Gitzo, a $400 RSS ballhead, and a $140 L-bracket only to muck it all up by putting your hands on the camera every time you want to engage the AF.

The one stage triggers like the 600 EX-RT or ST-E3-RT will not introduce any vibrations whatsoever. You DO NOT have to go back to the camera for it to refocus on a different distance subject, if you trust it to focus where you want anyway.

My point is two fold:
  • What difference does AF via a one stage switch or a two stage switch make in a remote setup? The answer is none. The camera will AF before the image is taken using either.
  • If you are doing this for ultimate stability and IQ then AF is a huge no no anyway. Live View 10x manual focus is the only way to go.
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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 04:29:06 PM »

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 04:49:00 PM »
I don't understand why separating focus from shutter is important for a remote camera

Are you asking why having the ability to half-press a remote to AF is important?  Well first of all, pretty much every wired or wireless remote has this feature (i.e. imitates the camera's shutter behavior).

If I want to shoot on a tripod (as opposed to hand-holding the camera), it's usually in scenarios where I want absolutely no vibrations whatsoever.  That means no hands touching the camera.  If you go through the trouble of carrying a tripod around the field and buying a remote control shutter to reduce vibrations, it kind of defeats the point if for every shot you have to first put your hands on the camera's shutter to focus and introduce new vibrations.  Not only does that force me to come back to the camera before every shot where I want to engage AF (negating the benefits of shooting remotely), but I waste time waiting for the vibrations introduced by my hand to dissipate from the camera before I can trip the shutter.  Remote shutter releases usually have the "half-press to AF" feature for these reasons.

People pay big bucks and go to extreme lengths to reduce vibrations.  You probably have seen those long discussion threads about 3-legged vs 4-legged tripods.  You don't buy a $500+ Gitzo, a $400 RSS ballhead, and a $140 L-bracket only to muck it all up by putting your hands on the camera every time you want to engage the AF.

I suspect the basis of the question was, what are you shooting remotely that would require you to autofocus between each shot? It would need to be something where the distance is changing, but you would not need to change the composition of the shot.

Note that if you're lighting the scene with one or more speedlites, you probably don't need to be terribly concerned about vibration - at full power, the flash duration is somewhere between 1/500 and 1/1000 s, and at lower power the duration is 1/20000 or faster... a little bit of camera motion is not going to matter.

In my case, the times when I normally need both a remote trigger and something in the hot shoe are when I'm taking portraits with myself in the picture.  The light is coming from external strobes, subject distance is not changing, and I'm using apertures in the f/9-11 range.  In that situation, AF between shots is completely unnecessary.

To answer your earlier question about what I do with the remote trigger receiver when something else is in the hotshoe, I attach it to the camera's L-bracket (the part that isn't in the ballhead clamp), using the little SnapQR mounting accessories from RRS.
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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 04:53:21 PM »
What difference does AF via a one stage switch or a two stage switch make in a remote setup? The answer is none. The camera will AF before the image is taken using either.

There is a difference.  In a one-stage switch, the camera will engage the AF and then immediately shoot.  There is no time in between for the vibrations introduced by the AF mechanisms to dissipate before the shot goes off.  In a two-stage switch, you half-press the remote to engage the AF, then you have the option of waiting for the vibrations caused by the AF motors to dissipate, and then you fully press the remote to fire the shot.

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 04:53:21 PM »