August 27, 2014, 09:01:45 AM

Author Topic: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?  (Read 4701 times)

Swphoto

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 04:56:30 PM »
There is a difference.  In a one-stage switch, the camera will engage the AF and then immediately shoot.  There is no time in between for the vibrations introduced by the AF mechanisms to dissipate before the shot goes off.  In a two-stage switch, you half-press the remote to engage the AF, then you have the option of waiting for the vibrations caused by the AF motors to dissipate, and then you fully press the remote to fire the shot.

And in this scenario you can't use manual focus when you set up the camera? Can you share a little more detail about the use case?

entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 05:15:04 PM »
There is a difference.  In a one-stage switch, the camera will engage the AF and then immediately shoot.  There is no time in between for the vibrations introduced by the AF mechanisms to dissipate before the shot goes off.  In a two-stage switch, you half-press the remote to engage the AF, then you have the option of waiting for the vibrations caused by the AF motors to dissipate, and then you fully press the remote to fire the shot.

And in this scenario you can't use manual focus when you set up the camera? Can you share a little more detail about the use case?

There are many use cases.  In the most basic example, where you're testing a camera body's AF capability, you would be shooting focus test charts on a wall to see how sharp the left/center/right AF points are.  In this scenario, you specifically wouldn't use manual focus (since you're testing AF), and you'd also definitely require a good tripod.  Any remote you buy would have to have a 2-stage trigger, otherwise you risk corrupting the test.

I don't know if you followed Nikon news last year and early this year at all, but they were getting terrible PR because a large percentage of their D800s had a "left-AF" focus problem.  You had dozens of threads on DPReview and other forums with users doing the exact focus test I described above.

entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 05:22:37 PM »
I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to find.  Almost all regular shutter releases can do the two functions I asked about.  What I'm trying to find is a wireless shutter release with the two functions that also doesn't preclude me from being able to mount a speedlight to the hotshoe.

My hähnel Giga T Pro II does half-press half press for AF, full press for release or continuous burst.  It connects to the remote port, so while the receiver can be mounted in the hotshoe, it doesn't need to be (which is good, as that's where the ST-E3-RT sits.

When your ST-E3-RT is on the hotshoe, do you just have your hahnel receiver dangling from a wire off the 3-pin port or something?
If you're worried about vibrations caused by the very light receiver hanging from the port and swinging in the wind, you can velcro it to a tripod leg or mount:

Or if you get really anal, you can use the thread in the base of the receiver and mount it with a more solid option:

Such as clamping it onto a tripod leg:


Yeah, having all that stuff clamped and velcroed is one way to do it, but I think you might be missing what I'm getting at here.  The reason I was asking about the RT system in my first post was because I was hoping it would help me NOT have to carry all that other stuff.  In other words, no extra receiver module necessary for a remote shutter release, and therefore no cord either; a double-win.  I was originally hoping that with two 600EX-RT modules, that I could "cut out the middleman" and not have to even buy or carry around a "wireless remote + receiver + cord" combo, and simply use one speedlight to trigger the other.  Unfortunately, I learned in this thread that the speedlight's shutter release button does not have the two functions I outlined in my first post.

Ideally, I would have one 600EX-RT (or ST-E3-RT) on the hotshoe (with either the flash turned on or off), and have a cheap trigger that sends a RT radio signal to the hotshoe unit to fire my camera.  If I could do that, I wouldn't need to buy or carry around all that other gear.  No receiver bricks, no wires, no velcro, no L-bracket clamps,...nothing!  Wouldn't that be great?  I mean if Nikon can do it, how much of a stretch is it for Canon to have this clean solution as well?

I did look into the Yongnuo YN622C and the cheaper YN603s, but in the end they are also "middlemen".  The former does ETTL and the latter does manual, but neither is ideal because neither leverage the RT receiver that's already built into the 600EX-RT.

Swphoto

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 05:29:00 PM »
I use this remote - should satisfy the requirements, but it would be 2 extra things to carry around. The receiver can sit in the hotshoe, but I just let it hang off the camera most of the time - it doesn't weigh much.

http://www.amazon.com/Satechi-WTR-A-Wireless-EOS-D2000-Compatible/dp/B004QDN2ZC/ref=pd_cp_p_0

Edit - looks like they've revised the receiver since I purchased mine, so it might weigh a bit more (or less) now.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 05:30:38 PM by Swphoto »

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 05:35:31 PM »
I use this remote - should satisfy the requirements, but it would be 2 extra things to carry around. The receiver can sit in the hotshoe, but I just let it hang off the camera most of the time - it doesn't weigh much.

http://www.amazon.com/Satechi-WTR-A-Wireless-EOS-D2000-Compatible/dp/B004QDN2ZC/ref=pd_cp_p_0

Edit - looks like they've revised the receiver since I purchased mine, so it might weigh a bit more (or less) now.

Oh, does the picture on Amazon look different than the one you have or something?

Edit - The WRT-A's manual says the receiver use CR2 batteries, but I looked at some youtube videos of user reviews and some have receivers that take AAA batteries.  I guess there are variations.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 05:45:25 PM by entlassen »

privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2013, 05:50:43 PM »
What difference does AF via a one stage switch or a two stage switch make in a remote setup? The answer is none. The camera will AF before the image is taken using either.

There is a difference.  In a one-stage switch, the camera will engage the AF and then immediately shoot.  There is no time in between for the vibrations introduced by the AF mechanisms to dissipate before the shot goes off.  In a two-stage switch, you half-press the remote to engage the AF, then you have the option of waiting for the vibrations caused by the AF motors to dissipate, and then you fully press the remote to fire the shot.

I'd like to see proof of that, I have never heard of AF causing vibrations, never. The mirror, if you are not using mirror lock up, can cause vibrations at some shutter speeds, but not AF.

But, as Neuro points out, if you are using lights then the shutter speed, and vibrations, become moot as it is the flash duration that becomes your effective exposure time and that is fast enough to overcome any such vibrations.
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entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 06:27:44 PM »
I'd like to see proof of that, I have never heard of AF causing vibrations, never. The mirror, if you are not using mirror lock up, can cause vibrations at some shutter speeds, but not AF.

If you can't see how the AF module in a camera, which is essentially a motor, causes vibrations, then I don't know what to say.  You do hear it whirling away in your own camera, right?  It's a moving mechanical part.  It spins another mechanical part attached to it (the lens).  Sometimes the lens isn't even attached airtight (e.g. 70-200 II's often have a tiny bit of play between the lens and body).  There is friction, there is movement, and this movement comes in short bursts, disrupting the inertia of the camera.

Accounting for AF vibrations is standard procedure for people shooting test charts when not in manual mode. 
Many of the D800 users I referenced earlier had flawed tests because they didn't account for it and got false positives in their images.  One of the reasons those threads were so long and numerous was because a lot of it was figuring out who did their tests correctly and who did not (and there are a lot of factors that can corrupt a sharpness test).

And yes, mirror slap can cause vibrations.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 06:40:19 PM by entlassen »

Swphoto

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 06:56:01 PM »
Oh, does the picture on Amazon look different than the one you have or something?

Edit - The WRT-A's manual says the receiver use CR2 batteries, but I looked at some youtube videos of user reviews and some have receivers that take AAA batteries.  I guess there are variations.

This is what my receiver looks like: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17pk3hn8p4l3sjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

entlassen

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 07:00:49 PM »
Oh, does the picture on Amazon look different than the one you have or something?

Edit - The WRT-A's manual says the receiver use CR2 batteries, but I looked at some youtube videos of user reviews and some have receivers that take AAA batteries.  I guess there are variations.

This is what my receiver looks like: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17pk3hn8p4l3sjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

Thanks.  Yeah, it looks different than the image being shown on Amazon; the cord plugs into a different location.

WPJ

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 07:13:46 PM »
Check this out, at least you only need to carry the receiver

Satechi Bluetooth Smart Trigger

Bluetooth smart trigger

neuroanatomist

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 07:26:04 PM »
One-stage remote with the self timer set?
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privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2013, 09:39:01 PM »
One-stage remote with the self timer set?

Now that is a stroke of genius amongst the irrelevant drivel. I can confirm it works too.

P.S. I still haven't found the D800 focus threads where they specifically point to AF induced vibrations ruining a strobe illuminated test image, but I really don't care either.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 09:40:39 PM by privatebydesign »
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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2013, 10:26:13 PM »
One-stage remote with the self timer set?

Now that is a stroke of genius amongst the irrelevant drivel. I can confirm it works too.

P.S. I still haven't found the D800 focus threads where they specifically point to AF induced vibrations ruining a strobe illuminated test image, but I really don't care either.

If you're going to resort to self-timers, then you might as well not even use a remote.  Need to get into a group shot?  Screw the remote, use the self-timer right?

Irrelevant drivel huh.  You mean like that post where somebody demanded proof that a spinning motor causes vibrations?

privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 10:59:14 PM »

Irrelevant drivel huh.  You mean like that post where somebody demanded proof that a spinning motor causes vibrations?

No, I meant the post when a certified engineer asked you where there was proof that an AF motor negatively impacts image quality.
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Re: 600EX-RT: Viability as a remote shutter release?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2013, 11:01:40 PM »
You do hear it whirling away in your own camera, right?  It's a moving mechanical part.  It spins another mechanical part attached to it (the lens).

And yes, mirror slap can cause vibrations.

I don't hear it whirling away in my camera...but then, I don't use a Nikon dSLR.   :P

Lots of things cause vibrations, including the earth itself.  They only matter if the frequency and amplitude are such that IQ is affected. I doubt that's the case for vibrations caused by the AF motor in the lens.

It's well documented that the vibrations from mirror slap only affect IQ at certain shutter speeds.  The effective shutter speed for a strobe-lit shot is fast enough that mirror slap has no effect.

One-stage remote with the self timer set?
Now that is a stroke of genius amongst the irrelevant drivel. I can confirm it works too.

Sometimes the simple solution is the best one.  Not that I'm opposed to unnecessarily complex and/or expensive solutions...after all, I'm using $80 in RRS accessories (not counting the $250 L-bracket) to do a job that could be accomplished with a few cents worth of Velcro.  ;)
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