November 27, 2014, 06:20:47 AM

Author Topic: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....  (Read 8221 times)

Eldar

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 02:48:39 AM »
When I upgraded from a 7D to a 5D3 I ran into buffer delays with my UDMA 6 CF cards, but getting a new UDMA 7 CF card made a big difference in how many shots I could take in a row.  When researching 5D3 buffer speed I read that if you had a SD card in your 5D3, even if it is not being written to, it can slow down the write speed to the CF card as well.
I also thought you would improve speed by removing the SD card, but I just tested mine and it seems to be same same.
At 6 fps, with a 90MB/s CF 16GB Sandisk, I got bursts of 18 full size RAW images both with and without the SD card inserted. Swapping to a 150MB/S CF 64GB Lexar I got 24 full size RAW, both with and without the SD card.
To compare, I got 34 full size RAW with the 1DX at 12fps with the 150MB/s card. And on top of that, the buffer is emptied much faster for follow on shots.
I have sold my 1DIV, so I cannot do a direct comparison, but it sure outperforms the 5DIII on fps and buffer handling. But having the 1DX, I think the 5DIII is the best complement at the moment.
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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 02:48:39 AM »

suburbia

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 07:43:43 AM »
http://blog.willshootphotography.com/2012/06/udma-7-cf-card-performance-on-canon-5d-mark-iii-and-1d-mark-iv-soooo-worth-it.html

Seems that switching to UDMA 7 has more dramatic impact on the 5d Mk III performance:

RAW shots

Camera........... Card   ........Shots till full.....Buffer empty in
5D Mark III......UDMA 6....   15....................15.2 sec
.......................UDMA 7.....26....................3.5 sec
            
1D Mark IV......UDMA 6.....27.....................24.5 sec
.......................UDMA 7*...31.....................6.1 sec

* Requires Firmware Upgrade
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 07:47:18 AM by suburbia »

danski0224

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2013, 08:33:34 AM »
Just wanted to get some thoughts from people who have had both cameras.

I shoot a lot of varied stuff from portraits to events, landscape, nature and wildlife (this is where my main interest lies).  I upgraded from a 7D to a 5DIII mostly for the better noise handling and full frame sensor despite losing the crop factor advantage.  I have been very happy with my 5D3 and I would absolutely love a 1DX for the integrated grip, better weather sealing, FPS and deeper buffer.

The 1DX however is currently not in my budget so I have been kicking around the idea of going from my 5D3 to a 1D4.  The only issues that I have run into with my 5D3 are having to wait for the buffer to clear from some action sequences I've taken and the lack of interchangeable focusing screens when I've been using some of my Zeiss lenses and manually focusing large aperture lenses.

Anyone have any thoughts on this crazy idea?

I noticed landscapes in your post above.

If you use wide angle lenses, there is a difference between the 5DIII and 1DIV.

There is the option of a Canon Refurb 1DX. The CPW price alerts work.

I wouldn't expect the retail price of a 1DX to come down anytime soon, nor would I wait in anticipation of this rumored big megapixel body. If the "studio" body materializes, it is aimed at a different segment than the 1DX, so it isn't really a replacement of the 1DX, therefore, the anticipated 1DX price drop may not happen.

Also note that the 1DX does not support the Ec-S screen, and I don't recall seeing anything on this in the upcoming firmware update. That said, I can see a difference looking through 5D series and 1DX viewfinders. The 1DX appears clearer to me and where manual focus was maddening in a 5DII, I can do it through a 1DX (yes, diopter was adjusted in both instances).

There are many posts claiming similarity between the 5DIII and 1DX cameras, and I think they are further apart than what meets the eye or spec sheet. I suspect that a comparison between exploded parts diagram views with part numbers of both cameras would confirm this.

The 1DIV does NOT have the same spot focus feature found on the 7D, 5DIII or 1DX. The 1DIV spot focus feature only works with the supertele lenses with a focus button.

The 5DIII focuses better in low light than the 1DIV. "Low light" is kind of vague, but you may want to try it out if you can with both cameras.

It is hard not to recommend the 1DX.

It is possible that the 1DIV will retain more value over time than the 5DIII, so switching now may not be a bad move.
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pdirestajr

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2013, 08:35:27 AM »
Image quality is a priority. Maybe I'll just wait a while longer for the 1DX to drop below 4K

Bottom line, both are great cameras.  If FPS is your main concern then i'd go for the Mark 4.  If IQ is your main concern then the 5DIII wins hands down....

Be prepared to wait years and a couple more camera body generations to find it used at <4k... That's a lot of missed moments.
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Canon1

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2013, 08:51:12 AM »
When I upgraded from a 7D to a 5D3 I ran into buffer delays with my UDMA 6 CF cards, but getting a new UDMA 7 CF card made a big difference in how many shots I could take in a row.  When researching 5D3 buffer speed I read that if you had a SD card in your 5D3, even if it is not being written to, it can slow down the write speed to the CF card as well.
I also thought you would improve speed by removing the SD card, but I just tested mine and it seems to be same same.
At 6 fps, with a 90MB/s CF 16GB Sandisk, I got bursts of 18 full size RAW images both with and without the SD card inserted. Swapping to a 150MB/S CF 64GB Lexar I got 24 full size RAW, both with and without the SD card.
To compare, I got 34 full size RAW with the 1DX at 12fps with the 150MB/s card. And on top of that, the buffer is emptied much faster for follow on shots.
I have sold my 1DIV, so I cannot do a direct comparison, but it sure outperforms the 5DIII on fps and buffer handling. But having the 1DX, I think the 5DIII is the best complement at the moment.

From what I understand the presence of an SD card will only affect the write speed to the CF when you are writing to both cards simultaneously. 

can0nfan2379

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2013, 11:51:07 AM »
That is a pretty dramatic increase in shots taken and buffer clearing on the 5D3 comparing UDMA6 vs UDMA7.....interesting

http://blog.willshootphotography.com/2012/06/udma-7-cf-card-performance-on-canon-5d-mark-iii-and-1d-mark-iv-soooo-worth-it.html

Seems that switching to UDMA 7 has more dramatic impact on the 5d Mk III performance:

RAW shots

Camera........... Card   ........Shots till full.....Buffer empty in
5D Mark III......UDMA 6....   15....................15.2 sec
.......................UDMA 7.....26....................3.5 sec
            
1D Mark IV......UDMA 6.....27.....................24.5 sec
.......................UDMA 7*...31.....................6.1 sec

* Requires Firmware Upgrade
5D3  |  Zeiss ZE 21/2.8  |  Zeiss ZE 50/2.0  |  EF 85 1.2LII  |  Zeiss ZE 135/2.0  |  EF 70-200 2.8L IS I  |  EF 300 2.8L IS I  |  EF 500 4L IS I  |  TC 1.4x III  |  RRS MH-01 + MC34  |  F-Stop Tilopa BC

can0nfan2379

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2013, 11:54:44 AM »
Also a good point.  I've always babied my equipment and have avoided taking my 5D3 out in light mist/drizzle.  Having a 1 series may provide a better sense of security with the weather sealing that perhaps I would obtain some additional photos / avoid missed opportunity....

Image quality is a priority. Maybe I'll just wait a while longer for the 1DX to drop below 4K

Bottom line, both are great cameras.  If FPS is your main concern then i'd go for the Mark 4.  If IQ is your main concern then the 5DIII wins hands down....

Be prepared to wait years and a couple more camera body generations to find it used at <4k... That's a lot of missed moments.
5D3  |  Zeiss ZE 21/2.8  |  Zeiss ZE 50/2.0  |  EF 85 1.2LII  |  Zeiss ZE 135/2.0  |  EF 70-200 2.8L IS I  |  EF 300 2.8L IS I  |  EF 500 4L IS I  |  TC 1.4x III  |  RRS MH-01 + MC34  |  F-Stop Tilopa BC

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2013, 11:54:44 AM »

cdn_photog

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2013, 02:13:11 PM »
I am using a SanDisk ExtremePro 32GB UDMA7 rated at 160MB/s in my 5D3. 
http://www.adorama.com/IDSCFEP4K32.html

I have 2 SanDisk SD cards (for my P&S), and 2 SanDisk CF cards, plus a 3rd SanDisk CF card that I sold with the 7D, and have not had any problems with them.


WPJ

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2013, 02:35:07 PM »
I am using a SanDisk ExtremePro 32GB UDMA7 rated at 160MB/s in my 5D3. 
http://www.adorama.com/IDSCFEP4K32.html

I have 2 SanDisk SD cards (for my P&S), and 2 SanDisk CF cards, plus a 3rd SanDisk CF card that I sold with the 7D, and have not had any problems with them.

I have 2 x 32gb Lexar x600 and 2 x 32gb Lexar x800, no issues with ether set of cards

Great burst rates.

crasher8

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2013, 05:34:16 PM »
Another vote for a refurb 1Dx

can0nfan2379

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2013, 06:16:22 PM »
I totally agree with the likelihood that the 1 Series use higher tier componentry.   There must be some reason people claim that 1 Series RAW files can be pushed and pulled more than lower tier bodies.

I use the spot focus feature tons so that's a knock against the 1D4.

You're probably right that the 1D4 may retain more value long term given that it is the last in the line of APS-H bodies and is very popular among wildlife photogs.  No doubt it is a great camera.  Just not convinced yet that it would be a step up from the 5D3 -- perhaps more of a lateral move....I mean I realize the build quality and FPS are an advantage but as has been discussed it does lose out on the 5D3 for some features (5D3 has 2 more cross type points, spot focus, low light servo performance).





There are many posts claiming similarity between the 5DIII and 1DX cameras, and I think they are further apart than what meets the eye or spec sheet. I suspect that a comparison between exploded parts diagram views with part numbers of both cameras would confirm this.

The 1DIV does NOT have the same spot focus feature found on the 7D, 5DIII or 1DX. The 1DIV spot focus feature only works with the supertele lenses with a focus button.

It is possible that the 1DIV will retain more value over time than the 5DIII, so switching now may not be a bad move.
5D3  |  Zeiss ZE 21/2.8  |  Zeiss ZE 50/2.0  |  EF 85 1.2LII  |  Zeiss ZE 135/2.0  |  EF 70-200 2.8L IS I  |  EF 300 2.8L IS I  |  EF 500 4L IS I  |  TC 1.4x III  |  RRS MH-01 + MC34  |  F-Stop Tilopa BC

Canon1

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2013, 06:25:04 PM »
That is a pretty dramatic increase in shots taken and buffer clearing on the 5D3 comparing UDMA6 vs UDMA7.....interesting

http://blog.willshootphotography.com/2012/06/udma-7-cf-card-performance-on-canon-5d-mark-iii-and-1d-mark-iv-soooo-worth-it.html

Seems that switching to UDMA 7 has more dramatic impact on the 5d Mk III performance:

RAW shots

Camera........... Card   ........Shots till full.....Buffer empty in
5D Mark III......UDMA 6....   15....................15.2 sec
.......................UDMA 7.....26....................3.5 sec
            
1D Mark IV......UDMA 6.....27.....................24.5 sec
.......................UDMA 7*...31.....................6.1 sec

* Requires Firmware Upgrade

Wow.  This is interesting.  All of my cards are UDMA 6 and 5.  What a dramatic difference between 6 and 7!  Time to go to BH and get some new cards...

goldencode

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2013, 07:32:09 PM »
I shoot a 5D3 plus the 1DIV...it's a superb combination.

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2013, 07:32:09 PM »

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2013, 08:58:33 PM »
I misinterpreted the question.  The 1D4 is NOT a step up above the 5D3.  The 5D3 I think overall, in more general situations, will give superior IQ.  If you put a 5D3 on a 400 f/2.8L II IS lens and then the 1D4 on the same lens, the 5D3 would have better IQ, especially if you are 1.3x closer to your subject.
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Richard8971

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2013, 11:13:04 PM »
I have also decided that I would rather have a 1D4 over the 5D3.

It's a beast of a camera and for wildlife shooting I would rather have 10fps and "lesser" IQ and get that shot than a little bit better "image quality" and miss it.

I have spoken with a few well known wildlife photographers and they say that if you switch to the 1D4 (over the 7D) you will never look back. David Hemmings didn't even blink when I asked him about upgrading to the 1D4, the 5D3 was never even mentioned.  Believe me, he is someone who would know.

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Re: Thinking of swapping a 5d3 for a 1D4.....
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2013, 11:13:04 PM »