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Author Topic: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts  (Read 37603 times)

RLPhoto

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 10:54:28 AM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 10:54:28 AM »

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2013, 11:20:54 AM »
There are news about this topic:

http://www.*********.com/another-tidbit-eos-7d-mark-ii-rumor-aps-c-flagship-set-come/

It appears there will be a new high-end APS-C DSLR but its name will not be 7D Mark II  ::)

Oddly, I feel this is true. Remember the rumors about the 1dx? About there being no 1d4s? This has the same feel. I don't care too badly what the new name is, as long as they don't meddle with what the 7D is...

How about "1D Z" (or "1D Y") name and proper price range because it targets limited and very specific user base (that's not too crowded by 'mass market consumers who will be better off with FF')?  :)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:22:38 AM by Zlyden »
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mrsfotografie

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2013, 11:35:04 AM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.

Isn't that where the 5DMkIII comes in? ;)
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, G16 | EF: SY14/2.8, V20/3.5, 28/2.8 IS, Ʃ35/1.4, 50/1.8, Ʃ50/1.4 EX, 100/2.8L IS Macro, 16-35/4L IS, 24-105/4L IS, 70-200/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 2.0x III, 70-300L IS, T28-300 Di VC PZD, Ʃ150-600 DG OS HSM S | E: SY12/2, 35/1.8 OSS, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, SY300/6.3 ED UMC CS

RLPhoto

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2013, 12:00:04 PM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.

Isn't that where the 5DMkIII comes in? ;)

But if you don't need FF, the 7D was the camera to get.

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2013, 12:35:05 PM »
On the other hand:

How many additional EF-S lenses Canon ever created for APS-C cameras?

Just 3 = 10-22, 17-55 and 60-macro?

The rest of EF-S family are 'kit lenses' for this or that camera model (18-55, 55-250, 17-85, 15-85, 18-135 and 18-200). These lenses were needed to make specific camera models attractive to some target users at some point in time.

Those who purchased 7D are supposed to use its 'kit lens' = EF-S 15-85. If they use EF 300 lens with 7D -- they are probably regarded by Canon as 'cheaters' who managed to get away from purchase of 5D.

So it looks like: Canon never treated APS-C cameras too seriously. These cameras were needed and intended to bring new users into EOS system. APS-C camera users were supposed to purchase EF lenses (with existing EF-S lens lineup being so limited) and to make a switch to FF cameras 'some time later' (= now!).

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...
G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
I also own few Canon flashes, remotes, blends, bags, cases (including waterproof one) and even batteries! :)

AvTvM

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2013, 12:35:42 PM »
The 7D was everything I wanted in a camera, except it wasn't FF. That's about it.
Isn't that where the 5DMkIII comes in? ;)

yes, quite possibly. If Canon had sold it at 6D price.  :-)

mrsfotografie

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2013, 12:39:40 PM »
On the other hand:

How many additional EF-S lenses Canon ever created for APS-C cameras?

Just 3 = 10-22, 17-55 and 60-macro?

The rest of EF-S family are 'kit lenses' for this or that camera model (18-55, 55-250, 17-85, 15-85, 18-135 and 18-200). These lenses were needed to make specific camera models attractive to some target users at some point in time.

Those who purchased 7D are supposed to use its 'kit lens' = EF-S 15-85. If they use EF 300 lens with 7D -- they are probably regarded by Canon as 'cheaters' who managed to get away from purchase of 5D.

So it looks like: Canon never treated APS-C cameras too seriously. These cameras were needed and intended to bring new users into EOS system. APS-C camera users were supposed to purchase EF lenses (with existing EF-S lens lineup being so limited) and to make a switch to FF cameras 'some time later' (= now!).

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...

Interesting post, I think you may be right.
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, G16 | EF: SY14/2.8, V20/3.5, 28/2.8 IS, Ʃ35/1.4, 50/1.8, Ʃ50/1.4 EX, 100/2.8L IS Macro, 16-35/4L IS, 24-105/4L IS, 70-200/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 2.0x III, 70-300L IS, T28-300 Di VC PZD, Ʃ150-600 DG OS HSM S | E: SY12/2, 35/1.8 OSS, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, SY300/6.3 ED UMC CS

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2013, 12:39:40 PM »

Sella174

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2013, 01:19:49 PM »
How many additional EF-S lenses Canon ever created for APS-C cameras?

And how many of those EF-S lenses are true APS-C lenses and not merely crummy FF'ish lenses?
Happily ignoring the laws of physics and the rules of photography to create better pictures.

AprilForever

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2013, 01:32:37 PM »
There are news about this topic:

http://www.*********.com/another-tidbit-eos-7d-mark-ii-rumor-aps-c-flagship-set-come/

It appears there will be a new high-end APS-C DSLR but its name will not be 7D Mark II  ::)

Oddly, I feel this is true. Remember the rumors about the 1dx? About there being no 1d4s? This has the same feel. I don't care too badly what the new name is, as long as they don't meddle with what the 7D is...

How about "1D Z" (or "1D Y") name and proper price range because it targets limited and very specific user base (that's not too crowded by 'mass market consumers who will be better off with FF')?  :)

I was thinking it might be a 1D something... 1D mk V? 1D Y or Z sound odd, butt so does X... 1DZ actually sounds like they might do it...
What is truth?

Random Orbits

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2013, 01:37:33 PM »
...

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...

Perhaps true for those that don't already own a EOS camera, but probably not for those that do.  For those that do, the M serves as a more portable solution that can be used in a pinch with other EOS lenses.  The 11-22/20/18-55 setup would be about as far as I'd take the M setup -- a compact travel kit. 

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2013, 01:48:01 PM »
...

PS: This could be the reason why Canon tries to cripple or limit EOS M and its EF-M lenses and will be the last camera maker to release mirrorless FF. The situation with EOS M is not like with usual DSLR APS-C users, the chances that new users of small and tiny EOS M will ever purchase EF-EOS M adapter and EF-S or EF lenses (including big whites) are close to zero -- these are just too large for this camera...

Perhaps true for those that don't already own a EOS camera, but probably not for those that do.  For those that do, the M serves as a more portable solution that can be used in a pinch with other EOS lenses.  The 11-22/20/18-55 setup would be about as far as I'd take the M setup -- a compact travel kit.

Yes. Thanks!

We all (most of us) have EOS M, because it's small and allows us to use existing lenses (if needs arise)  :)

But >>> in normal Canon's 'lineup-upsell-play' (like that of 3 years ago) such camera should play a role of 'introducing new users to great and wonderful world of EOS and EF lenses'.

It does not. It just can't.

So, EOS M plays the role of 'bastard' in the family (everybody loves it except parents who had to accept it with a scowl), and EF-M is a 'dead-end' in EF lenses roadmap because it makes no sense to use larger lenses on EOS M (unless you already have these...)
G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
I also own few Canon flashes, remotes, blends, bags, cases (including waterproof one) and even batteries! :)

Maximilian

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2013, 02:29:15 PM »
I believe, there is a market for such a camera and I also believe that the canon people aren't that blind an stu**d to not see that market.

Usually, I'm the first one to bash canon for being conservative, but I do think they have a very good idea of the market at least as *profit* goes - they won't release a "flashship" aps-c camera just to excel in specs but that isn't sold in sufficient numbers. Also the r&d for a supposedly 7d2 mirrored design is a dead end as the future goes.

That's where the 70d comes it: it has a "dumbed down" af system and might be inferior to a rumored 7d2, but it is close enough to the 7d1 so that it's sufficient in *absulute* specs to work as a wildlife "machine-gun" camera type. Once the 7d2 or whatever-its-called comes in at $2000+ manyy people will give the 70d a second look and consider a better lens instead.
I can follow your argumentation, that some will consider the 70d instead of the 7d2 (or what it might be called, if it comes) but there are also people that want and/or need that "machine-gun" and so Canon takes advantage in both.
But what I didn't believe, when i Saw the rumored specs was the price or the specs that would come at "just" $2000+.

Let's just see, what Canon marketing is deciding...
sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2013, 02:33:50 PM »
Let's just see, what Canon marketing is deciding...

Considering this is a "flagship" model, it is expected and longed for for a very long time, and the target crowd includes enthusiasts with deep pockets I bet they'll put a very large early adopter's premium on it... as long as it's below a 5d3+longer tele lens it'll find enough buyers @€2000+

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2013, 02:33:50 PM »

Viper28

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2013, 02:39:48 PM »
The trick Canon are missing here is:
1. Take the 1D4
2. Remove the badge and stick a 7D2 badge on it (or 7D Sport)
3. Sell it for $2500

R&D costs about 10yen to design the 7D2 badge, the rest is depreciated to zero now anyway so you would be making decent cash on it at $2.5k and it would drive Nikon nuts.

7D users would go for it because it would be a significant upgrade at a reasonable price, most I know with 7D are sports / wildlife people so use EF lens anyway (so loss of EF-s means little too them).

Yes some people would be unhappy (those who don't like gripped bodies for one) but a lot more would be happier

Right back to the coolaid....
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wsmith96

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2013, 02:56:00 PM »
The trick Canon are missing here is:
1. Take the 1D4
2. Remove the badge and stick a 7D2 badge on it (or 7D Sport)
3. Sell it for $2500

R&D costs about 10yen to design the 7D2 badge, the rest is depreciated to zero now anyway so you would be making decent cash on it at $2.5k and it would drive Nikon nuts.

7D users would go for it because it would be a significant upgrade at a reasonable price, most I know with 7D are sports / wildlife people so use EF lens anyway (so loss of EF-s means little too them).  Maybe throw some wifi in there.

Yes some people would be unhappy (those who don't like gripped bodies for one) but a lot more would be happier

Right back to the coolaid....

I'm also thinking that this may be where canon is heading with the 7d based upon some rumors that I have seen.  I'd be fine with that too though I'm going to lose out on some of my lenses.   But, I made the choice to go that route with EF-S long ago, so if the route changes, then it changes.   Seems like a great way to recycle a product that was already (and still is) good.  Maybe add some integrated wifi.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 02:57:36 PM by wsmith96 »
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2013, 02:56:00 PM »