December 17, 2017, 10:50:02 AM

Author Topic: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?  (Read 32581 times)

smicka

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2017, 02:10:57 PM »
Personally, I would prefer the 85 f/1.4L IS assuming it has BR. My favorite lens at the moment is the 35 f/1.4 II - CA control is out of this world amazing and sharpness is just WOW. Seeing those improvements (or at least BR for CA) in the new 85 would be a dream come true.

I can't stand CA; although the 85 f/1.2L II is great the CA is a deal breaker for me. IS on the new 85 would be great for super-low light (weddings / receptions when shooting dual cameras equipped with primes). IS would be icing on the cake for stills but very very nice for video. I currently shoot with 85 f/1.8 (begrudgingly as it is a CA monster) and can't wait to upgrade when the new 85 comes out.

I'm also hoping the 85 f/1.4L IS is more of a 35 f/1.4 II than a 35 f/2 IS in terms of build quality.

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2017, 02:10:57 PM »

meywd

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2017, 07:04:10 AM »
From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

1) Yes, it will be L.  That was a CR3 here some time ago.

2) All bets would be on this thing mopping the floor with the current f/1.2L II from a sharpness perspective.  This would appear to be the Otus/Art-level super resolver, while the f/1.2L II will remain the bokeh beast.

- A

Yeah, it was and is CR3, but that could still be wrong.

I can absolutely see it being sharper, but I'm not too sure there would be much difference in bokeh unless in this case bokeh means the whole image must be inherently softer throughout. In that case bokeh just means soft. I think an image can have a tack sharp subject and still be a beast when it comes to bokeh. I hope so anyway.

I have to wonder whether or not this has more to do with overstock of 85 f/1.2L II needing to get sold while introducing a competing model with BR and IS. From what I understand the CA is horrible with the 85 f/1.2L II.

I predict a huge price drop on the 85 f/1.2L II within 6 months of this new lens introduction (Christmas?). Then, discontinuance a year later.

The choice between the two lenses will boil down to superior performance vs very discounted price. I think the new lens is going to murder the old one quickly even with a much higher price once the old lens is discounted.

Well if you want ultimate sharpness, ultimate bokeh, IS and AF, then it would cost like a super white, the Otus 85mm f1.4 costs more than 4k and is manual focus, how much would Canon charge for the ultimate beast?
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Sabaki

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2017, 09:12:44 AM »
No matter how great, no matter how legendary the 85 f/1.2 L is, there comes a time for Canon to set new standards and benchmarks.

I really do hope that they will release a version II of the /1.2 but the new 85 f/1.4 IS has to set the industry standard for an 85mm. It has to outperform the f/1.2 version for everything outside of bokeh or there is no progress and signs of what is to come.

Price...it'd be brilliant if it's priced like the 16-35 f/4.0 L IS was at launch but irrespective of that, the lens will sell and even those who complain of the price may end up with a copy in their bags
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CanonFanBoy

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2017, 03:44:50 PM »
Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

Both the EF 85mm f/1.8 and EF 85mm f/1.2L II are really in need of a refresh in my opinion.  Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron and Samyang have all introduced excellent new lenses in this focal length for the EF mount in the past few years, and the Canon offerings are looking dated by comparison.

I hope Canon decides to add IS to the 85mm f/1.8 replacement.  I'd love to see a new L as well, with similar quality to the excellent EF 35mm f/1.4L II.

Yes, and with the BR element also. I did not realize BR wasn't being used in all new lenses.
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tiggy@mac.com

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2017, 11:15:00 PM »
Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

Both the EF 85mm f/1.8 and EF 85mm f/1.2L II are really in need of a refresh in my opinion.  Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron and Samyang have all introduced excellent new lenses in this focal length for the EF mount in the past few years, and the Canon offerings are looking dated by comparison.

I hope Canon decides to add IS to the 85mm f/1.8 replacement.  I'd love to see a new L as well, with similar quality to the excellent EF 35mm f/1.4L II.

Yes, and with the BR element also. I did not realize BR wasn't being used in all new lenses.

They have not been using the Blue Goo (formerly BR) technology in all new releases. I owned the 35 II, and indeed it was something to behold. But the Blue Goo is merely a tool, and sometimes a lens design requires different tools.

With all of the new 85mm lenses released recently, it is very possible that Canon's won't be the best. It is almost certain that if it is the best, it won't be by terribly much, as the field of competitors is simply stunning. I would not begrudge any fellow photographer their choice from among Tamron, Sigma, Zeiss, and - soon - Canon.

privatebydesign

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2017, 11:24:15 PM »


They have not been using the Blue Goo (formerly BR) technology in all new releases. I owned the 35 II, and indeed it was something to behold. But the Blue Goo is merely a tool, and sometimes a lens design requires different tools.

With all of the new 85mm lenses released recently, it is very possible that Canon's won't be the best. It is almost certain that if it is the best, it won't be by terribly much, as the field of competitors is simply stunning. I would not begrudge any fellow photographer their choice from among Tamron, Sigma, Zeiss, and - soon - Canon.

The best what?

The sharpest? And what does that mean, the sharpest in the center, the sharpest in the corners, the sharpest average across the field, the sharpest at close focus, the sharpest at infinity? And that is just 'the sharpest', we could do the same for CA, bokeh, distortions etc etc. How about focus accuracy, focus speed, focus consistency.

If we learn anything from the multitude of tests and opinions available to us nowadays, biased and less so, it is that there is no 'best' as we all have different priorities.

Personally I'd only be interested in a Canon 85 f1.4 L IS, anything else and I'll go without and that includes the Canon 1.2.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

SteveM

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2017, 05:44:40 AM »
I'd be interested in the 85mm 1.4, assuming a reasonable price, otherwise I'll stick to the 1.8. I find the 1.8 to be ok from f2.2.

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2017, 05:44:40 AM »

LordofTackle

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2017, 05:45:54 PM »
I'd be interested in the 85mm 1.4, assuming a reasonable price, otherwise I'll stick to the 1.8. I find the 1.8 to be ok from f2.2.

At least here in Germany I'm pretty sure the price will be anything but reasonable :(
I'm in the market for a 85 and currently waiting for the 85 1.4 L (IS) to come out..then I will decide between it, the Siggy and the 85 1.2
But knowing me, it will probably become the rumored 85 1.4 :D

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Tapcon

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2017, 10:12:28 PM »
I have the 1.2 and I have a love hate relationship with it.  I will gladly sell it and get the 1.4 IS in a heartbeat.

PeterAlex7

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2017, 05:53:09 AM »
From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

I think the 85mm f/1.2L II would be the bridge between the new 85mm f/1.4L IS and the 85mm f/1.8

YuengLinger

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2017, 07:47:15 AM »
Ok, after a fairly important photo session where some side-lit flare, and hand shake at 1/250th impacted IQ, I'm ready to try an 85mm 1.4 IS.

Lately, something about the shape of the 1.2 has been harder for me to hold steady.  Or I just had a bad day.

Doesn't happen with my 24-70mm; with the 135mm maybe I've just been more careful, as it was problematic with shake from day one, and I worked around it with higher shutter speeds and better technique.  But, as said, the shape of the "grapefruit" shape of the 1.2 seems to be more of a challenge for me now than it was four years ago when first purchased.

In any event, bring on the IS.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 08:07:39 AM by YuengLinger »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2017, 02:42:46 PM »
Ok, after a fairly important photo session where some side-lit flare, and hand shake at 1/250th impacted IQ, I'm ready to try an 85mm 1.4 IS.

Lately, something about the shape of the 1.2 has been harder for me to hold steady.  Or I just had a bad day.

Doesn't happen with my 24-70mm; with the 135mm maybe I've just been more careful, as it was problematic with shake from day one, and I worked around it with higher shutter speeds and better technique.  But, as said, the shape of the "grapefruit" shape of the 1.2 seems to be more of a challenge for me now than it was four years ago when first purchased.

In any event, bring on the IS.
As I get older (only 54) I have noticed more shake. I'd welcome IS. Honestly, I am starting to wonder about the usefulness of anything wider than f/2.8. Especially for portraits where flash is used. Depth of field is already shallow at f/2.8, so it is really starting to make me wonder.

I know the faster f stops are useful to some. Just thinking about my own uses. For me, f/2.8 might be enough.
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YuengLinger

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2017, 02:55:52 PM »
As I get older (only 54) I have noticed more shake. I'd welcome IS. Honestly, I am starting to wonder about the usefulness of anything wider than f/2.8. Especially for portraits where flash is used. Depth of field is already shallow at f/2.8, so it is really starting to make me wonder.

I know the faster f stops are useful to some. Just thinking about my own uses. For me, f/2.8 might be enough.

I think apertures faster than 2.8 present quite a few options I'd not want to go without.  Particularly with 30-60 year old men, it's great being able to work relatively close in and have super shallow DoF.  Is 1.2 necessary?  Maybe not, but until recently, it seemed that to have a very sharp 1.8-2.2, starting at 1.2 was part of the design.  But newer lenses are pretty close to peak sharpness at max aperture, so I wouldn't feel I'm giving up anything mystic if a new 85 1.4 IS was sharp wide open as the 35mm 1.4 II is sharp wide open.

One of my favorite master portrait artists is George Hurrell.  Something understated yet majestic about shallow DoF used properly.  I know he used mostly 8x10, so I don't know precisely the 135 equivalent focal lengths are, but I see a lot of 1.8 - 2.2.  Cecil Beaton, whom I also admire immensely, maybe even shallower.

I've had otherwise very good very shallow DoF images "ruined" by a hand looking like a clawish blob or an ear that looks odd when too out of focus, or a jawline that blurs into a neck with unflattering results, but I persevere and feel so happy when it all works.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 03:04:41 PM by YuengLinger »

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2017, 02:55:52 PM »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2017, 03:54:39 PM »
As I get older (only 54) I have noticed more shake. I'd welcome IS. Honestly, I am starting to wonder about the usefulness of anything wider than f/2.8. Especially for portraits where flash is used. Depth of field is already shallow at f/2.8, so it is really starting to make me wonder.

I know the faster f stops are useful to some. Just thinking about my own uses. For me, f/2.8 might be enough.

I think apertures faster than 2.8 present quite a few options I'd not want to go without.  Particularly with 30-60 year old men, it's great being able to work relatively close in and have super shallow DoF.  Is 1.2 necessary?  Maybe not, but until recently, it seemed that to have a very sharp 1.8-2.2, starting at 1.2 was part of the design.  But newer lenses are pretty close to peak sharpness at max aperture, so I wouldn't feel I'm giving up anything mystic if a new 85 1.4 IS was sharp wide open as the 35mm 1.4 II is sharp wide open.

One of my favorite master portrait artists is George Hurrell.  Something understated yet majestic about shallow DoF used properly.  I know he used mostly 8x10, so I don't know precisely the 135 equivalent focal lengths are, but I see a lot of 1.8 - 2.2.  Cecil Beaton, whom I also admire immensely, maybe even shallower.

I've had otherwise very good very shallow DoF images "ruined" by a hand looking like a clawish blob or an ear that looks odd when too out of focus, or a jawline that blurs into a neck with unflattering results, but I persevere and feel so happy when it all works.

Another truism by you.

I have the 135 f/2L and the 35 f/1.4 II. Right now I am messing up more shots than nailing. I just need to practice more. :)
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bluenoser1993

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2017, 06:44:14 PM »
Any chance the 85 f1.4 IS might accept a teleconverter?  With design advances you can be sure image quality at 119 f2 would be as good or better than the old 135L.  I'd sell the 135 to fund that for sure.  It would be killer for gymnasium sports.
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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2017, 06:44:14 PM »