June 25, 2018, 04:07:51 PM

Author Topic: Sony switchers face development limbo!  (Read 7142 times)

3kramd5

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2018, 03:09:39 PM »
...buyers face a risk decision due to the strategy.

Sony buyers do face a risk. Remember Vaio? Remember that was the second time Sony exited the PC market?

Yah, all buyers face that risk ultimately, but does this strategy increase it? Especially given the further detail about their focus on branded hardware from Imaging Products & Solutions, among other business units, as the growth engine?

I don’t buy it. That’s YOPODFC level stuff.

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2018, 03:09:39 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2018, 03:22:01 PM »
Yah, all buyers face that risk ultimately, but does this strategy increase it? Especially given the further detail about their focus on branded hardware from Imaging Products & Solutions, among other business units, as the growth engine?

I don’t buy it. That’s YOPODFC level stuff.

A strategic focus on a 'growth engine' where their own projections indicate zero profit growth next year.  You're right, nothing to be at all concerned about there in any way, shape or form...everything's rosy and bright.   ::)
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3kramd5

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2018, 03:36:41 PM »
Yah, all buyers face that risk ultimately, but does this strategy increase it? Especially given the further detail about their focus on branded hardware from Imaging Products & Solutions, among other business units, as the growth engine?

I don’t buy it. That’s YOPODFC level stuff.

A strategic focus on a 'growth engine' where their own projections indicate zero profit growth next year.  You're right, nothing to be at all concerned about there in any way, shape or form...everything's rosy and bright.   ::)

I agree with your sarcastic “nothing to be concerned about there” comment.

I’m not a Sony user but this wouldn’t concern me if I were. Nor should it concern PlayStation users. It maybe should concern investors. They aren’t looking for growth in the camera market, they’re specifically looking for “sustainable cash flow” from these business units (including Imaging products) with which to fund growth for Sony at large (hence engine). If they’re looking at cameras as a piggy bank, they’re not likely to abandon cameras. In fact, their goal as stated to investors is to be the top brand in the camera market (however lofty that is). Perhaps the flat projected profit for 2018 is due to investment needed, not poor sales, and note that in 2020 they’re targeting 13%-40% revenue increase (relative to 2018 projections) with the 2017 level of product sales. Regardless, nothing for camera users to worry about.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 08:50:34 AM by 3kramd5 »

Talys

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2018, 05:02:45 PM »
...buyers face a risk decision due to the strategy.

Sony buyers do face a risk. Remember Vaio? Remember that was the second time Sony exited the PC market?

Yah, all buyers face that risk ultimately, but does this strategy increase it? Especially given the further detail about their focus on branded hardware from Imaging Products & Solutions, among other business units, as the growth engine?

I don’t buy it. That’s YOPODFC level stuff.

The painful part about Vaio notebooks wasn't that Sony exited the market, because in the PC world, you don't expect your computer to last forever anyways.  The main problem was that Vaio notebooks were great, until Sony decided they weren't interested in making them anymore.  Then, the last generation were garbage.

I fell into the idiot class that loved their earlier notebooks enough to lay down $3000+ for their last carbon-fiber Z class notebook on launch day that ended up literally going in the trash, because it had terrible heat and stability problems.  I also despised the trackpad, they keyboard had way too much flex, and I got sick of sending it in only to have it come back still defective.

The worst thing Sony could do for its photography customers would be to decide that the division isn't making enough money to invest big bucks into future R&D.  But to be honest, I don't see that as likely, because Sony is definitely in it for the long haul in the pro camcorder and other imaging businesses, and there's a lot of overlap.

However, it is possible that you never end up seeing big telephotos or tilt-shift lenses, or other low-volume, more specialty stuff.  You might never even see a decent first-party flash system  ::)

3kramd5

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2018, 08:55:52 AM »
However, it is possible that you never end up seeing big telephotos or tilt-shift lenses, or other low-volume, more specialty stuff.  You might never even see a decent first-party flash system  ::)

Tilt shift? Maybe not; many EVF users are happy to have in-camera digital corrections rather than optical. However, “light source” and “lens” were two of the inputs they presented in their product dev strategy.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 10:25:32 AM by 3kramd5 »

Talys

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2018, 02:03:43 PM »
However, it is possible that you never end up seeing big telephotos or tilt-shift lenses, or other low-volume, more specialty stuff.  You might never even see a decent first-party flash system  ::)

Tilt shift? Maybe not; many EVF users are happy to have in-camera digital corrections rather than optical. However, “light source” and “lens” were two of the inputs they presented in their product dev strategy.

One thing I found interesting in their slide was the way Sony is dividing their product mix: basic, resolution, and speed. 

A problem with their "speed" is that they're talking almost exclusively about drive speed.  But in order for Sony to achieve their goal of being the "top brand" they'll need to be competitive with Canon and Nikon's DSLRs in autofocus speed, particularly with the long telephotos and extenders.

Which means they'll need the big lenses and big apertures, of course, but even putting that aside lens availability, the 100-400mm + 1.4TC on any Sony is miserably slow compared to a 5D4 in any lighting situation, and in a whole other universe when compared to 400 + 1.4 on a 1DXII.

3kramd5

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2018, 04:25:32 PM »
I suspect they also are considering AF performance. They think their A9 is world class in that regard. I’ve never touched one and can’t comment.

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2018, 04:25:32 PM »

Random Orbits

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2018, 04:46:54 PM »
I agree with your sarcastic “nothing to be concerned about there” comment.

I’m not a Sony user but this wouldn’t concern me if I were. Nor should it concern PlayStation users. It maybe should concern investors. They aren’t looking for growth in the camera market, they’re specifically looking for “sustainable cash flow” from these business units (including Imaging products) with which to fund growth for Sony at large (hence engine). If they’re looking at cameras as a piggy bank, they’re not likely to abandon cameras. In fact, their goal as stated to investors is to be the top brand in the camera market (however lofty that is). Perhaps the flat projected profit for 2018 is due to investment needed, not poor sales, and note that in 2020 they’re targeting 13%-40% revenue increase (relative to 2018 projections) with the 2017 level of product sales. Regardless, nothing for camera users to worry about.

The question is how it will be able to maintain margins when CaNikon get into the mirrorless game.  Sony plans to "Win in an increasingly competitive market and continue to generate high profit." while "Competitors [are] becoming more aggressive in the market."  Usually competition leads to a reduction in margin and the total pie is still shrinking...

Normalnorm

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2018, 04:52:28 PM »
"Sony is proving that it can evolve with the landscape ... with a shift from a hardware-to content-driven profit model,” SMBC Nikko Securities Inc. analyst Ryosuke Katsura wrote after the company’s latest earnings report last month. “The real key is whether it provides investors with a clear road map.”

Interesting, since Sony attributed good results from hardware in addition to Playstation revenue.

3kramd5

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2018, 05:16:01 PM »
I agree with your sarcastic “nothing to be concerned about there” comment.

I’m not a Sony user but this wouldn’t concern me if I were. Nor should it concern PlayStation users. It maybe should concern investors. They aren’t looking for growth in the camera market, they’re specifically looking for “sustainable cash flow” from these business units (including Imaging products) with which to fund growth for Sony at large (hence engine). If they’re looking at cameras as a piggy bank, they’re not likely to abandon cameras. In fact, their goal as stated to investors is to be the top brand in the camera market (however lofty that is). Perhaps the flat projected profit for 2018 is due to investment needed, not poor sales, and note that in 2020 they’re targeting 13%-40% revenue increase (relative to 2018 projections) with the 2017 level of product sales. Regardless, nothing for camera users to worry about.

The question is how it will be able to maintain margins when CaNikon get into the mirrorless game.  Sony plans to "Win in an increasingly competitive market and continue to generate high profit." while "Competitors [are] becoming more aggressive in the market."  Usually competition leads to a reduction in margin and the total pie is still shrinking...


Perhaps with segmentation (>$2000 stills cameras, >$1500 lenses, >$4000 camcorders, etc). Aggressive competition is likely to come in a lower market segment, and margins are higher in premium markets.

But who knows?

neuroanatomist

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 08:10:49 PM »
They think...

Quote from: Sony
MP&C
Overall segment sales are expected to increase significantly primarily due to an anticipated significant increase in unit sales of smartphones and the introduction of high value-added models, as well as due to the introduction of high value-added PCs. Operating results are expected to significantly improve primarily due to the impact of the increase in sales.

The above is what Sony thought regarding their forecast for FY2013.

That was the year in which they abandoned the Vaio brand and exited the PC market.
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3kramd5

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2018, 09:02:06 PM »
Yah. Companies don’t always get it right. Companies sometimes fail. Look at Kodak, they were the royal family of innovation. All I’m saying is nothing in this announced strategy portends doom for Sony camera users. Quite the opposite, in fact: it suggests Sony will invest heavily in that business.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2018, 09:16:07 PM »
Sure, but you seem to be equating the lack of a portent of doom with no risk at all.  Their FY2012 financials painted a rosy picture for Sony PCs, no portents of doom there, either.

Sony's history clearly implies some risk for camera buyers, far more so than Canon's history.
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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2018, 09:16:07 PM »

3kramd5

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2018, 10:52:56 PM »
Sure, but you seem to be equating the lack of a portent of doom with no risk at all.  Their FY2012 financials painted a rosy picture for Sony PCs, no portents of doom there, either.

Sony's history clearly implies some risk for camera buyers, far more so than Canon's history.

Not at all. I’m saying this strategy doesn’t increase the risk; the peanuts-products mentioned do not include those from their camera business.

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2018, 11:41:33 PM »
Especially if their target is the higher end/higher margin models.

I'll never understand the assumption that higher end = higher profit margins overall, which is what really matters.

Higher end also = higher manufacturing costs, R&D, less sales, etc.

As far as Sony's service? Uh, no.
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Re: Sony switchers face development limbo!
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2018, 11:41:33 PM »