June 19, 2018, 02:52:05 PM

Author Topic: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]  (Read 11010 times)

slclick

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2018, 02:48:18 PM »
I enjoy FP on my M5 but I use a couple mf lenses including Lensbabies and that is certainly not in the majority. All said and done, I'll take accurate and fast AF on my bodies as opposed to MF capabilities every day of of the week.

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2018, 02:48:18 PM »

stevelee

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Talys

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: May 26, 2018, 02:24:08 AM »
I enjoy FP on my M5 but I use a couple mf lenses including Lensbabies and that is certainly not in the majority. All said and done, I'll take accurate and fast AF on my bodies as opposed to MF capabilities every day of of the week.

I have a love/hate relationship with focus magnification and focus peaking and razor-sharp, manually focused photos.  On one hand, I just love that every photo is bang-on focused on the part of the photo I want focused.  On the other hand, I waste so much time doing so that I miss a crap ton of shots.  Conceptually, it's so awesome that I can't stop myself from using it, often in cases that are to my detriment.

The reality is that the spot AF (square with dot in center) on a Canon DSLR is super-duper accurate.  If I'm pointing at a bee pollinating a flower, 3/4 of the time, the bee will be in perfect focus.  So, yeah, 25% of the photos will be unusable.  But there are so many great shots that it's ok.

All the cameras I've used with some form of MF wizardry (Canon, Sony, it doesn't matter), by the time the bee is perfectly focused, I've 75% of the interesting positions I would have captured, and although 100% of the shots are perfectly focused, I might not like any of them.

The other problem I have with Canon and Sony is that whether it's the M5 or the A7R3, the AF is not precise enough, in that although something in the AF focus point will be in perfect focus, it might not be what's in the center of it, like with spot AF. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:28:47 AM by Talys »

fullstop

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: May 26, 2018, 02:44:01 AM »
EOS M - including M5 - is notorious for "not small enough AF fields" / lack of "pinpoint spot AF". i hope this is really improved on with M50 - though apparently not for all but only with 3 EF-M lenses: 28 macro, 18-150, 55-200.

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2018/eos-m50/eos-m50-autofocus.shtml

hopefully "precise spot-af" selection will be implemented for all EF-M lenses (firmware? upgrade?) on all future EOS M bodies. not sure, what the bottlenecks are. sensor? digic? lens af drive? firmware ? lens-body protocol? some or all of them?

Talys

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: May 26, 2018, 02:03:59 PM »
EOS M - including M5 - is notorious for "not small enough AF fields" / lack of "pinpoint spot AF". i hope this is really improved on with M50 - though apparently not for all but only with 3 EF-M lenses: 28 macro, 18-150, 55-200.

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2018/eos-m50/eos-m50-autofocus.shtml

hopefully "precise spot-af" selection will be implemented for all EF-M lenses (firmware? upgrade?) on all future EOS M bodies. not sure, what the bottlenecks are. sensor? digic? lens af drive? firmware ? lens-body protocol? some or all of them?

The AF coverage on all EFM lenses is excellent.  The lack of precision on M50, however, is probably disqualifying for me, but if I'm hire frank about it, I really don't like M5 or A7R3 precision either. Also, the M50's lack of controls makes the M5 a better choice for me, as much as I enjoyed playing with M50.

I do recognize, however, that in Canon land, Spot AF (square with dot) is a higher end enthusiast feature -- I think the cheapes body it is on is 6D2 -- so I get why it isn't on M5 or M50. I hope it can be found on the future enthusiast/semi-pro bodies, though.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 02:06:03 PM by Talys »

fullstop

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: May 26, 2018, 03:09:20 PM »
did you find the M50 AF better in that respect than M5? Did you try M50 with one of the "enhanced mode" lenses (28 / 18-150 / 55-200)?

While no true "Canon Spot AF" [square with dot] 143 AF fields on M50 in enhanced mode (with 3 lenses)  or even 99 in "normal mode" (with all/other lenses) vs. only 49 AF fields on M5 and other prior EOS M models should give much finer control over where focus is put? At least one would hope so. :-)




« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 03:11:29 PM by fullstop »

slclick

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2018, 08:28:41 PM »
EOS M - including M5 - is notorious for "not small enough AF fields" / lack of "pinpoint spot AF". i hope this is really improved on with M50 - though apparently not for all but only with 3 EF-M lenses: 28 macro, 18-150, 55-200.

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2018/eos-m50/eos-m50-autofocus.shtml

hopefully "precise spot-af" selection will be implemented for all EF-M lenses (firmware? upgrade?) on all future EOS M bodies. not sure, what the bottlenecks are. sensor? digic? lens af drive? firmware ? lens-body protocol? some or all of them?

according to who? YouTube pundits? My M5 has more than enough AF points and if you can't deal with it it's a PEBCAK issue.  (old school computer guy joke for you young ones) I am so sick and tired of folks who can't shoot without this and that. The film masters has jack nothing to use gear wise and made much better images than any of us will ever do in a lifetime. Blurghhhh

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2018, 08:28:41 PM »

Bennymiata

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2018, 08:57:18 PM »
I just hope Canon don't re-visit the ergonomic disasters of the Sony 7 series cameras to try and make it as small as possible. I won't use a Sony 7 camera as everytime I use one with a pro lens on it, my fingers keep getting stuck between the grip and the lens and after a few hours, it hurts!
While Canon's spec sheets don't look as good as Sony's do, we know that Canon's mirrorless will work and work well. DPAF will ensure their autofocussing will be superior to anything else, and the menus will actually make sense, and the camera won't lock up all the time either.
Personally, I would like a FF mirrorless (like my M5) that just works really well and reliably and takes great photos, and I know Canon can deliver this better than anyone else.

Talys

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2018, 12:34:03 AM »
did you find the M50 AF better in that respect than M5? Did you try M50 with one of the "enhanced mode" lenses (28 / 18-150 / 55-200)?

While no true "Canon Spot AF" [square with dot] 143 AF fields on M50 in enhanced mode (with 3 lenses)  or even 99 in "normal mode" (with all/other lenses) vs. only 49 AF fields on M5 and other prior EOS M models should give much finer control over where focus is put? At least one would hope so. :-)


Quite frankly, I see no difference between enhanced and other EFM lenses for practical photography purposes.  80% x 80% is virtually identical to 88% x 100%, because I'll never use that extra ring of squares on the far edges and corners.  The last time I ever needed to focus on something at the extreme edge of the frame was... never.

I honestly don't care for MORE AF points.  I mean, I think one of the nicest things about the 7DII is being able to reduce the number of selectable points.  I only need a few AF points, but I'd like the option to make them much smaller squares if I wish.

fullstop

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2018, 03:49:37 AM »
implementation of "true spot AF fields" would also be my preferred solution. but until canon offers it on any or some of their mirrorless cams, i was expecting - or hoping - that more and SMALLER AF fields across the entire AF-area would make some difference and alle iate the problem to some extent.

@slckick: yes, some people manage to create compelling photographs using only a pinhole camera. And yes, Henri Cartier-Bresson captured all of his amazing images using cameras without autofocus. BUT he used the very best and most technically most advanced cameras available at the time. Myself I am not nearly as talented a photographer as HCB. Therefore it is even more important to me to get as much "technical support" from the cameras i use that helps me to concentrate on the image (and moment in time) i want to capture by taking care of the more mundane aspects of photography - like getting exposure right and having the essential parts of an image in sharp focus.

that's why i would like to have a camera with an af system that RELIABLY manages to focus the scene exactly where i want it. when oirtraying people for example the left or right eye of the person. not the tip of the nose. not the earlobe. and even less so some fence or other strong contrast visual structure in the background. with my current EOS M (1st gen) this is unfortunately a serious problem in daily, real-world practice. and while newer versions of the M series have made great progress in AF performance, the basic layout of only 49 VERY LARGE AF fields has not changed. this is why i am interested in the AF improvements Canon has implemented now in the M50. that's why i was trying to learn whether it does offer a real improvement in use and if it is marginally or significantly better. or only a Canon marketing "paper spec".

is this unreasonable?

dak723

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2018, 11:44:38 AM »
did you find the M50 AF better in that respect than M5? Did you try M50 with one of the "enhanced mode" lenses (28 / 18-150 / 55-200)?

While no true "Canon Spot AF" [square with dot] 143 AF fields on M50 in enhanced mode (with 3 lenses)  or even 99 in "normal mode" (with all/other lenses) vs. only 49 AF fields on M5 and other prior EOS M models should give much finer control over where focus is put? At least one would hope so. :-)


Quite frankly, I see no difference between enhanced and other EFM lenses for practical photography purposes.  80% x 80% is virtually identical to 88% x 100%, because I'll never use that extra ring of squares on the far edges and corners.  The last time I ever needed to focus on something at the extreme edge of the frame was... never.

I honestly don't care for MORE AF points.  I mean, I think one of the nicest things about the 7DII is being able to reduce the number of selectable points.  I only need a few AF points, but I'd like the option to make them much smaller squares if I wish.

More AF points are a real negative for me.  I only need a few as well.  On the M5 you can choose between two sizes.  I use the smaller box and it is small enough for me, although I can not compare it to "Spot AF as I have never had a camera with that feature.  Don't know if the M50 has the option to change the AF box size.

fullstop

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2018, 12:27:00 PM »
i find more AF points very helpful in certain situations. Very useful for example, when i have cam on tripod and can finely select focus point over desired part of the image on touchscreen - without having to manipulate cam on tripod head.

And for tracking AF the more AF points and coverage of the image, the better. On 2018 cameras we should not ever have to focus first with one of a few AF point and then re-compose. Although I know, that many still do it that way - usually because they never really learned or mastered the AF system of their cameras.

3kramd5

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2018, 12:36:48 PM »
did you find the M50 AF better in that respect than M5? Did you try M50 with one of the "enhanced mode" lenses (28 / 18-150 / 55-200)?

While no true "Canon Spot AF" [square with dot] 143 AF fields on M50 in enhanced mode (with 3 lenses)  or even 99 in "normal mode" (with all/other lenses) vs. only 49 AF fields on M5 and other prior EOS M models should give much finer control over where focus is put? At least one would hope so. :-)


Quite frankly, I see no difference between enhanced and other EFM lenses for practical photography purposes.  80% x 80% is virtually identical to 88% x 100%, because I'll never use that extra ring of squares on the far edges and corners.  The last time I ever needed to focus on something at the extreme edge of the frame was... never.

I honestly don't care for MORE AF points.  I mean, I think one of the nicest things about the 7DII is being able to reduce the number of selectable points.  I only need a few AF points, but I'd like the option to make them much smaller squares if I wish.

More AF points are a real negative for me.

Can you elaborate as to why it’s a negative? Due to their display in the VF maybe?

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2018, 12:36:48 PM »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2018, 03:40:12 PM »
EOS M - including M5 - is notorious for "not small enough AF fields" / lack of "pinpoint spot AF". i hope this is really improved on with M50 - though apparently not for all but only with 3 EF-M lenses: 28 macro, 18-150, 55-200.

http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2018/eos-m50/eos-m50-autofocus.shtml

hopefully "precise spot-af" selection will be implemented for all EF-M lenses (firmware? upgrade?) on all future EOS M bodies. not sure, what the bottlenecks are. sensor? digic? lens af drive? firmware ? lens-body protocol? some or all of them?

according to who? YouTube pundits? My M5 has more than enough AF points and if you can't deal with it it's a PEBCAK issue.  (old school computer guy joke for you young ones) I am so sick and tired of folks who can't shoot without this and that. The film masters has jack nothing to use gear wise and made much better images than any of us will ever do in a lifetime. Blurghhhh
;D My mother-in-law (w)itches less than some of these perpetual gouches.
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Mikehit

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2018, 03:50:33 PM »
did you find the M50 AF better in that respect than M5? Did you try M50 with one of the "enhanced mode" lenses (28 / 18-150 / 55-200)?

While no true "Canon Spot AF" [square with dot] 143 AF fields on M50 in enhanced mode (with 3 lenses)  or even 99 in "normal mode" (with all/other lenses) vs. only 49 AF fields on M5 and other prior EOS M models should give much finer control over where focus is put? At least one would hope so. :-)


Quite frankly, I see no difference between enhanced and other EFM lenses for practical photography purposes.  80% x 80% is virtually identical to 88% x 100%, because I'll never use that extra ring of squares on the far edges and corners.  The last time I ever needed to focus on something at the extreme edge of the frame was... never.

I honestly don't care for MORE AF points.  I mean, I think one of the nicest things about the 7DII is being able to reduce the number of selectable points.  I only need a few AF points, but I'd like the option to make them much smaller squares if I wish.

More AF points are a real negative for me.

Can you elaborate as to why it’s a negative? Due to their display in the VF maybe?

Coz you spend so damn long moving the AF point to cover where you want it to be that you miss the shot, instead of remembering that focus-recompose is quicker.  :P

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2018, 03:50:33 PM »