June 23, 2018, 08:19:08 PM

Author Topic: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]  (Read 11340 times)

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It’s no secret that Canon is hard at work on prosumer mirrorless cameras, including at least one full frame mirrorless camera.

We’re told that three sensors are being tested in various camera body configurations, each with a different pixel count. The source claims that 24mp, 28mp and 36mp sensors are being used.  There is no mention if these are all new sensors or if they are modified versions of current image sensors.

We do find it interesting that these sorts of things are being talked about, but we still don’t have not confirmed what sort of mount solution Canon is going to come up with. As we saw this past week, Canon has patented a dedicated full frame mirrorless optical formula, which tells us we’re getting a new EOS M mount for full frame sensors.

More to come….

« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 09:44:31 AM by Canon Rumors »
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amorse

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 09:17:46 AM »

The source claims that 24mp, 28mp and 36mp sensors are being used.  There is no mention if these are all new sensors or if they are modified versions of current image sensors.
Does Canon currently offer a 36mp sensor with DPAF?  I would assume they have to be new sensors wouldn't they?  I'm not in the market for a mirrorless camera (yet) but I am so very curious as to how Canon will approach their first offerings considering their acknowledgement that they want to "go on the offensive" in mirrorless. 

Architect1776

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 09:33:57 AM »

The source claims that 24mp, 28mp and 36mp sensors are being used.  There is no mention if these are all new sensors or if they are modified versions of current image sensors.
Does Canon currently offer a 36mp sensor with DPAF?  I would assume they have to be new sensors wouldn't they?  I'm not in the market for a mirrorless camera (yet) but I am so very curious as to how Canon will approach their first offerings considering their acknowledgement that they want to "go on the offensive" in mirrorless.

I would hope that Canon will make the 36 MP sensor the minimum standard for all their cameras going forward. Likely not, but it would be nice for people on a budget to get good quality like in the film days I could shoot the best film available with a Canon TLb and a pro level lens and get the same quality as the F-1. It is a shame that you have to spend big bucks on the camera now to get the better sensor (Film).
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ahsanford

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 11:04:11 AM »
"As we saw this past week, Canon has patented a dedicated full frame mirrorless optical formula, which tells us we’re getting a new EOS M mount for full frame sensors."

No.  No it doesn't.  A patent is one of many paths forward Canon might take.  Are you really calling the mount decision a done deal at this point?   

You might consider walking back that statement above... unless you have more details to share with the class?   :D

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edoorn

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 11:07:30 AM »
yeah a patent is only a patent, at this point at least :)

could be real though, but we won't know for a while. I'd happily take a 36mpix sensor btw :)

tmc784

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 11:12:24 AM »
 FF-M attached with Tele lenses/mid zoom lenses are still bulky and heavy.

ahsanford

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 11:15:11 AM »
As for testing multiple resolutions, that wouldn't surprise me at all.  Canon wants to spend as a little as possible in production on this, but they recognize the competition could surface with something even higher spec'd than anticipated, and a (relatively) late change to resolution is an easy way to increase the appeal of the camera (as compared to having to implement something that might drive internal geometry changes (e.g. IBIS, cooling for a better spec'd 4K, etc.).

But now that Sony's 'III' line is out of the barn, Canon's biggest missing piece of intel is what price point Nikon is joining the FF mirrorless fray.  Again, Canon won't outright match body specs b/c that would be foolish, but it would look really bad if Canon dropped a 6D2-like spec body and Nikon entered the market with a mirrorless D850 variant.  (I don't think that will happen -- I think both Canon/Nikon are gunning for enthusiasts first and professionals later, but you never know.)

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 11:15:11 AM »

ahsanford

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 11:17:50 AM »
FF-M attached with Tele lenses/mid zoom lenses are still bulky and heavy.

Indeed -- you can't hide from the glass.

But that doesn't mean they shouldn't do FF mirrorless.  They should just put a big grip on the body to better prepare it for those heavy lenses.

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jeffa4444

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 11:48:31 AM »
What surprises me the most is the back-focus. 10 - 12.5mm is very short given that Sony is 18mm as is the EF-M, It also adds to certain optical challenges.   
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amorse

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 11:58:43 AM »
FF-M attached with Tele lenses/mid zoom lenses are still bulky and heavy.

Indeed -- you can't hide from the glass.

But that doesn't mean they shouldn't do FF mirrorless.  They should just put a big grip on the body to better prepare it for those heavy lenses.

- A
But there is always the option of releasing slower lenses to reduce the over all size.  I guess my question for people who really need a less conspicuous body is are they willing to give up some aperture in order to shrink the kit?  With full frame higher ISO performance I would imagine that a slower lens may not be as much of a barrier as it once was, provided that they do not need a very shallow depth of field.  Thinking of the 35mm f/2 here; there are size benefits if the aperture is somewhat restricted on a few prime lenses.  I guess the kit would be overall of a similar size as to what you could get with a 5D or a 6D in terms of length from tip of glass to back of Camera, but knowing that there are several variants are in testing I can't help but wonder if there is a size-focused body which gives up some ergonomics to shrink over all weight/size.

melgross

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 12:03:12 PM »

The source claims that 24mp, 28mp and 36mp sensors are being used.  There is no mention if these are all new sensors or if they are modified versions of current image sensors.
Does Canon currently offer a 36mp sensor with DPAF?  I would assume they have to be new sensors wouldn't they?  I'm not in the market for a mirrorless camera (yet) but I am so very curious as to how Canon will approach their first offerings considering their acknowledgement that they want to "go on the offensive" in mirrorless.

I would hope that Canon will make the 36 MP sensor the minimum standard for all their cameras going forward. Likely not, but it would be nice for people on a budget to get good quality like in the film days I could shoot the best film available with a Canon TLb and a pro level lens and get the same quality as the F-1. It is a shame that you have to spend big bucks on the camera now to get the better sensor (Film).

We don’t need 36MP for film quality. Long ago, Kodak stated that Kodachrome 25 was between 14 and 18MP. People were asserting that it was more like 24MP. I tested it in my lab, and indeed, it was around 18MP.

If you want medium format resolution, be aware that it wasn’t too much higher. The difference was mostly in the grain and microcontrast. Medium format lenses are actually less sharp that their 35mm equivalents. It’s complex, but 24MP sensors are already pretty sharp.

I’m not arguing against higher resolution, but I would like Canon to get their pixel level dynamic range and noise equal to Nikon/sony’s best, and while they’re getting closer, they’re not there yet.

Chaitanya

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2018, 12:04:06 PM »
A good 24MP sensor would be more than enough for a entry level FF MILC camera. I am far more interested to know what lens mount is Canon going to choose?

melgross

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2018, 12:07:23 PM »
"As we saw this past week, Canon has patented a dedicated full frame mirrorless optical formula, which tells us we’re getting a new EOS M mount for full frame sensors."

No.  No it doesn't.  A patent is one of many paths forward Canon might take.  Are you really calling the mount decision a done deal at this point?   

You might consider walking back that statement above... unless you have more details to share with the class?   :D

- A

I would think that the question of the mount is indeed a “done deal”. But that doesn’t mean that we know what it is, or that the patent is it. If they are releasing a camera late this year, or early next, the camera specs need to have been locked down. While some minor areas may still be up for change, depending on developments, something as basic as the mount needs to one of the first things decided upon, not the last, as everything else depends upon it.

Oh, why does my name have the Powershot under it? I don’t have a Powershot, and I didn’t bother listing my equipment.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 12:11:22 PM by melgross »

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2018, 12:07:23 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2018, 12:10:31 PM »
But there is always the option of releasing slower lenses to reduce the over all size.  I guess my question for people who really need a less conspicuous body is are they willing to give up some aperture in order to shrink the kit? 

For those that want a smaller body, sure.

But the rest of us 100% will be bolting on our standard f/2.8 zooms and f/1.4 primes on these bodies on. day. one.

Canon isn't making mirrorless expressly to make a smaller camera.  That's just one of the markets for this camera.

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ahsanford

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2018, 12:12:28 PM »
I would think that the question of the mount is indeed a “done deal”. But that doesn’t mean that we know what it is, or that the patent is it.

Forgive me -- I meant "done deal" to the point that CR Guy is 100% sure of what it is.  My fault for not being clear.

Agree with your statement above.  If it's a Q4 '18 / Q1 '19 product, the mount decision (at Canon) is long since done. 

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Re: Three Sensors Being Tested for Canon Full Frame Mirrorless? [CR1]
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2018, 12:12:28 PM »