canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => Lenses => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on November 21, 2012, 11:41:19 AM

Title: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Canon Rumors on November 21, 2012, 11:41:19 AM
The mount is not forgotten
Canon has plans to introduce new EF-S lenses in the first couple of quarters of 2013. There will be a new push on the crop segment of the EOS lineup and new lenses are going to be a part of that revival. A few lenses are mentioned as highly probable and will appear alongside a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

Two niche lenses are mentioned, one being an EF-S zoom fisheye as well as a new IS macro. No mention of focal length on either. A replacement to the wonderful EF-S 10-22 is also mentioned to be in the works. It will probably be a couple of mm wider at the short end.

The most pressing EF-S lenses that need a redo would be the EF-S 18-200 IS, which we hear is in the works and will have an STM focus motor and be longer at the telephoto end. The other is the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS. While this is a very good lens optically, the build quality and internal dust problems leave a lot to be desired. A small refresh would be welcomed.

I’m also told that there have been delays in regards to lenses brought about by new manufacturing technologies that Canon has introduced in their factories. Those issues are being worked out and we can expect Canon to “catch-up with demand” sometime in 2013.

It was also noted that the 1100D and 60D would quietly be discontinued in the first part of 2013 with no replacements being imminent. This one would surprise me a bit, although perhaps the breadth of products in the APS-C line is no longer needed.

cr

Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on November 21, 2012, 12:07:08 PM
If they're going to bother to mess with the 17-55/2.8, MAKE IT 15MM AT THE WIDE END, for goodness sake!!!

Ideally, it should be 15-60 or so.  That would make it a worthy combination with the 70-200s.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Jesse on November 21, 2012, 12:07:14 PM
Ugh, where's the FF ultrawide zoom already?
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: lonelywhitelights on November 21, 2012, 12:13:49 PM
Dooo love the ef-s 10-22mm, Such a lovely lens to use. sadly had to sell it after upgrading to 5DII and the 16-35L is out of my price range. Still missing that wide focal range :'(
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Jmanc on November 21, 2012, 12:28:16 PM
i have the 17-55 and if used carefully, dust is a really non-issue. i use mine everywhere. if canon does anything more to this lens, it will make it more expensive that it already it is...pushing it well into L territory. same goes for the 10-22 which i also have.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: lopicma on November 21, 2012, 12:35:00 PM
What is the advantage of EF-S glass? 

I have heard that crop sensors have better focus in the middle of the lens on an EF mount.  Does this mean it can take full advantage of the entire lens in an EF-S type mount?
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Ellen Schmidtee on November 21, 2012, 12:38:33 PM
wider at the short end... a 8-22mm?

i really doubt that.

There seem to be a couple of lenses that compete with the EF-S 10-22mm, specifically the wider Sigma 8-16mm & the Tokina 10-17mm fisheye zoom.

I always wondered where the 10-22mm benefits from having short back focus when compared to the Sigma. It isn't wider, it's IQ isn't better, it's less than a stop faster, and how many people actually care about 170g weight difference?
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Ellen Schmidtee on November 21, 2012, 12:45:14 PM
An EF-S zoom fisheye and a wider replacement to the EF-S 10-22?

My impression was the EF-S 10-22mm should be upgraded, specifically to have wider short end and maybe some IQ improvement.

An EF-S fisheye zoom? Does the Tokina 10-17mm sell that well? After years of not making any circular fisheye lenses (note there was one for the FD mount), does Canon suddenly see a market for those on both FF & APS-C? Wouldn't it compete with both the upgraded EF-S 10-22mm and the EF 8-15mm L, which serves as diagonal fisheye lens for APS-C?
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: ScottyP on November 21, 2012, 12:54:00 PM
What is the advantage of EF-S glass? 

I have heard that crop sensors have better focus in the middle of the lens on an EF mount.  Does this mean it can take full advantage of the entire lens in an EF-S type mount?

The advantage is Canon can sell it cheaper without undercutting its other more-expensive lenses.

The center-frame thing is an advantage to crop sensors, not Efs lenses. Crop sensur uses the sharp middle of a FF lens and discards the weaker edges.  And the light fallof/vignetting is discarded/dropped off too.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 21, 2012, 12:58:21 PM
What is the advantage of EF-S glass? 

I have heard that crop sensors have better focus in the middle of the lens on an EF mount.  Does this mean it can take full advantage of the entire lens in an EF-S type mount?

Better IQ and cost less when use with crop sensor
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: IWLP on November 21, 2012, 12:59:52 PM
What is the advantage of EF-S glass? 

I have heard that crop sensors have better focus in the middle of the lens on an EF mount.  Does this mean it can take full advantage of the entire lens in an EF-S type mount?

The original rationale was lighter and less expensive. When I first picked up the 10-22mm EF-S, I was surprised how light it was. I like that. Personally, I'm not willing to invest in full-frame bodies due to price, and I find that several of the EF-S offerings (such as the 10-22mm and 17-55mm) are great lenses.

As far as the second part of your question, I've never heard the term "better focus" used, but it is true you are using the center cut of the lens, meaning if the lens has soft corners or vignetting, these attributes will show up less on a crop sensor compared to a full-frame sensor.

As far as an update, I don't feel like my 10-22mm needs any better IQ. I find it to be better than my 24-105mm and in the realm of my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II. The 17-55 would benefit from better construction, however, but I, too, am worried about the price inching up. Conversely, a II version could mean cheaper I versions, so ... ;)

Like Thom Hogan on Nikon, I'm still wishing for a fast 28mm or 24mm equivalent prime EF-S. This is my favorite focal length, and f/2 or faster would open up some opportunities for me.

$.02

Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: 2n10 on November 21, 2012, 01:00:16 PM
An EF-S zoom fisheye and a wider replacement to the EF-S 10-22?

My impression was the EF-S 10-22mm should be upgraded, specifically to have wider short end and maybe some IQ improvement.

An EF-S fisheye zoom? Does the Tokina 10-17mm sell that well? After years of not making any circular fisheye lenses (note there was one for the FD mount), does Canon suddenly see a market for those on both FF & APS-C? Wouldn't it compete with both the upgraded EF-S 10-22mm and the EF 8-15mm L, which serves as diagonal fisheye lens for APS-C?

My guess is the Sigma 4.5mm full fish eye has enough sales that Canon wants to compete?
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: AprilForever on November 21, 2012, 01:31:06 PM
An EF-S zoom fisheye and a wider replacement to the EF-S 10-22?

My impression was the EF-S 10-22mm should be upgraded, specifically to have wider short end and maybe some IQ improvement.

An EF-S fisheye zoom? Does the Tokina 10-17mm sell that well? After years of not making any circular fisheye lenses (note there was one for the FD mount), does Canon suddenly see a market for those on both FF & APS-C? Wouldn't it compete with both the upgraded EF-S 10-22mm and the EF 8-15mm L, which serves as diagonal fisheye lens for APS-C?

My guess is the Sigma 4.5mm full fish eye has enough sales that Canon wants to compete?

I never liked the weird look of the full circle with mass vignetting...

As far as the 60D, does this means the astronomy one too?


Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 21, 2012, 01:36:09 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: unfocused on November 21, 2012, 01:38:17 PM
If they're going to bother to mess with the 17-55/2.8, MAKE IT 15MM AT THE WIDE END, for goodness sake!!!

Ideally, it should be 15-60 or so.  That would make it a worthy combination with the 70-200s.

Yes. This. Or, better yet, take the 15-85 and make it a constant f4. All wishful thinking though, I expect.

Still, it will be interesting to see what they do with the 17-55 f2.8.

I seriously doubt they will really abandon the 60D. Perhaps let it sit for six months and see what happens with the 7DII and the T4i, but I believe there will still be plenty of room to slot a 70D in between, especially if they upgrade the 7D.

2013 could be a critical year for the future of DSLRs. With a new 6D, a new 7DII and new lenses for both formats, Canon will be making my decision on what to buy harder and harder. Do I split my purchases into two formats or go all-in with APS-C? They are getting very creative about getting into my wallet. Yet, it should be a fun ride.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: lol on November 21, 2012, 02:06:28 PM
I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

I really hope they don't go anywhere near a 1D style body on a 7D2 as that would be an immediate deal breaker for me.

That aside, I have to wonder what strategy they might pursue... I think the 5D3 would be a reference point, but would the 7D2 get features that surpass it like the 7D did to the 5D2? A further updated AF system would be a nice to have, particularly if they start to standardise on the RGB metering/tracking assist making it more 1D X like than 5D3 like.


On the rumoured lenses, I'll watch with interest what the EF-S fisheye zoom does. I'm already tempted by the full frame version but haven't got it yet since it's a lot of cost of a niche usage lens. If the EF-S version still covers circular to full frame fisheye at a lower cost, I'll probably bite.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on November 21, 2012, 02:40:57 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

I'm still expecting (Or hoping) that that recent Canon patent for rear illumination of large sensors will appear soon.  We have not seen large sensors with rear illumination due to the technical difficulties which the patent claims to solve.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: eddiemrg on November 21, 2012, 02:57:31 PM
If they're going to bother to mess with the 17-55/2.8, MAKE IT 15MM AT THE WIDE END, for goodness sake!!!

Ideally, it should be 15-60 or so.  That would make it a worthy combination with the 70-200s.

Yes. This. Or, better yet, take the 15-85 and make it a constant f4. All wishful thinking though, I expect.


Nope.. nope nope! I've just buyed the 15-85... don't touch that lens!!!
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Ellen Schmidtee on November 21, 2012, 03:02:01 PM
An EF-S zoom fisheye and a wider replacement to the EF-S 10-22?

My impression was the EF-S 10-22mm should be upgraded, specifically to have wider short end and maybe some IQ improvement.

An EF-S fisheye zoom? Does the Tokina 10-17mm sell that well? After years of not making any circular fisheye lenses (note there was one for the FD mount), does Canon suddenly see a market for those on both FF & APS-C? Wouldn't it compete with both the upgraded EF-S 10-22mm and the EF 8-15mm L, which serves as diagonal fisheye lens for APS-C?

My guess is the Sigma 4.5mm full fish eye has enough sales that Canon wants to compete?

Possibly, but a fisheye zoom might mean Canon would shoot itself in the foot with an expensive lens, sending customers to buy cheaper primes.

When the EF 8-15mm f/4 came out, I already had an EF 15mm f/2.8. Preferring to save money and keep the extra stop, I bought the Sigma circular fisheye.

In case somebody brings up the familiar ISO argument:

1. An f-stop gives a 1 f-stop advantage, whether on my current camera or any other camera I will own in the future.

2. DxO doesn't support the EF 8-15mm. Support was planned, until the lens was released, then the lens disappeared from the list.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 21, 2012, 03:07:26 PM
Nope.. nope nope! I've just buyed the 15-85... don't touch that lens!!!

Wrong attitude...   ;)

If they do update it, say to a constant f/4, and (more wishful thinking) add weather sealing, the price will likely go up >30%.  When that happens, prices on used copies of the previous version actually go UP, quite possibly meaning you could sell your used lens for more than you paid for it new.  Just something to think about...
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: brad-man on November 21, 2012, 03:10:00 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

It will no doubt have the new sensor tech (whatever that is), better weather sealing, and the 5DIII AF system. Oh yes, and a very high purchase price. That's what "pro" means to Canon
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Haydn1971 on November 21, 2012, 03:26:26 PM
A Pro APS-C camera ???  Not really thought about Neuros concept of a 1D style body, but I'm thinking a step up in AF (45 points ?) pixel count (30mpx) and low light performance in a 7DII sized body, with a lower priced clipped version, a 8D perhaps (20mpx) ? To mirror the 5D/6D duo !  That way, they could realistically drop the 60D and look at a revised line up below, moving up the 650D replacement into a 60D price with the mirrorless range filling in below - a 1000 series as mirrorless EF-S perhaps ?

A Pro APS-C would hopefully also to me a range of "L" EF-S lenses -
- Fisheye 6mm - Fixed f4.0
- Ultrawide 8-20mm f4.0
- Standard 15-45mm f2.0 < been talk of f2.0 standard for a while
- Standard 15-85mm f4.0
- Tele 45-135mm f2.8 < a 70-200mm for crop, in white perhaps ;-)
- Tele 45-135mm f4.0
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on November 21, 2012, 03:31:46 PM
I really hope they don't go anywhere near a 1D style body on a 7D2 as that would be an immediate deal breaker for me.

For me as well.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Otara on November 21, 2012, 03:38:04 PM
An EF-S fisheye zoom? Does the Tokina 10-17mm sell that well? After years of not making any circular fisheye lenses (note there was one for the FD mount), does Canon suddenly see a market for those on both FF & APS-C? Wouldn't it compete with both the upgraded EF-S 10-22mm and the EF 8-15mm L, which serves as diagonal fisheye lens for APS-C?

Very popular underwater lens.  Bit niche admittedly.

Otara
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: 2n10 on November 21, 2012, 04:01:17 PM
An EF-S zoom fisheye and a wider replacement to the EF-S 10-22?

My impression was the EF-S 10-22mm should be upgraded, specifically to have wider short end and maybe some IQ improvement.

An EF-S fisheye zoom? Does the Tokina 10-17mm sell that well? After years of not making any circular fisheye lenses (note there was one for the FD mount), does Canon suddenly see a market for those on both FF & APS-C? Wouldn't it compete with both the upgraded EF-S 10-22mm and the EF 8-15mm L, which serves as diagonal fisheye lens for APS-C?

My guess is the Sigma 4.5mm full fish eye has enough sales that Canon wants to compete?

I never liked the weird look of the full circle with mass vignetting...

As far as the 60D, does this means the astronomy one too?

Good question on the 60D.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: 2n10 on November 21, 2012, 04:02:17 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

Here's hoping your definition is at least close.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: distant.star on November 21, 2012, 05:20:51 PM
i have the 17-55 and if used carefully, dust is a really non-issue. i use mine everywhere. if canon does anything more to this lens, it will make it more expensive that it already it is...pushing it well into L territory. same goes for the 10-22 which i also have.

What does "L territory" mean?

The current EF-S 17-55 is around $1050 to $1200.

Current price for the EF135mm L is $989.

Current price for the non-IS 70-200 F/4.0L is $629.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Promature on November 21, 2012, 06:01:54 PM
What is the advantage of EF-S glass? 

Seriously?  Lighter, cheaper, and in the case of the 17-55, no FF equivalent (i.e., FF equivalent 27-88 f2.8 with IS).
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Promature on November 21, 2012, 06:08:46 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

After upgrading my glass, this is where I'd like to go next.  I just can't justify FF and a pro APS-C camera should be in 6D pricing territory, hopefully cheaper.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Edwin Herdman on November 21, 2012, 06:25:51 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)
Given the pretty outstanding prices on the 5D III we're seeing, and the likely even lower price of the 6D, I wouldn't mind seeing a high-resolution APS-H sensor - so long as it still represents a per-area resolution increase over the 7D.  It would be awkward to work with, though, so I'm sure that's not a terribly popular opinion.  I'm assuming it'll just be an APS-C sensor and I'm already thinking seriously about going for whatever is released, if they can get anywhere close to the gains the 6D is showing (I'm hoping the quality increase will be at least as good as from the 5D III to the 6D, as we have every right to expect).

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the AF system - I don't think they could use the 5D's AF system because its AF points already cover over 50% of the viewfinder horizontally.  It would be great though.  I personally don't think they need to go all the way to 41 cross-type points, but any bump in the number of cross-type points would be welcome.  I think that just adopting some of the new controls (acceleration/deceleration adjustments for tracking, for example) out of the 5D, as well as the other general type improvements, would make it a worthwhile upgrade already, though they'll work much better with a dense AF grid, of course.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on November 21, 2012, 06:41:21 PM
It was also noted that the 1100D and 60D would quietly be discontinued in the first part of 2013 with no replacements being imminent.

So they do merge the lines again after the 60d/7d split  - this probably means the the 7d2 sensor is such an improvement that they couldn't sell the 60d anymore anyway, nor can they drop the 60d price because the 650d is near.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 21, 2012, 06:52:39 PM
Seriously?  Lighter, cheaper, and in the case of the 17-55, no FF equivalent (i.e., FF equivalent 27-88 f2.8 with IS).

Again, I chuckle. Guffaw, even.  While it's true that there's no 2x-7/8x f/2.8 IS zoom for FF, the crop factor affects DoF for the same framing and FF sensors collect more total light meaning lower noise. So, the real FF equivalent of the 17-55/2.8 is a 27-88mm f/4.5 lens, meaning the 24-105mm f/4L IS on FF is wider, longer, and faster (DoF for same framing), still has IS, and is a couple of hundred dollars cheaper when bought as a FF kit lens. The >1.3-stop lower noise more than compensates for the loss of 1-stop of aperture, in terms of shutter speed.  All you lose are the f/2.8 AF point(s).  Don't get me wrong - I loved the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS and I think it's the best general purpose zoom for APS-C, but the 24-105mm f/4L IS on FF is better spec'd and delivers better IQ than the 17-55 on APS-C. 
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: unfocused on November 21, 2012, 06:55:56 PM
It was also noted that the 1100D and 60D would quietly be discontinued in the first part of 2013 with no replacements being imminent.

So they do merge the lines again after the 60d/7d split  - this probably means the the 7d2 sensor is such an improvement that they couldn't sell the 60d anymore anyway, nor can they drop the 60d price because the 650d is near.

I think "merge" might not be correct. They could very well do what they did with the 7D and 60D – Introduce the 7DII and then wait 9-12 months and follow it up with a 70D. Nikon has allowed both the D300 and D7000 to languish, while they upgrade lower-level models. You are correct in that the T4i pretty much matches the 60D currently and Nikon's actions means there is no real pressure on Canon to upgrade the 60D at this time. But, I think there is still room in the lineup for a 70D and I doubt that Canon will leave what could be a $1,000 gap between the T4i and the 7DII.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: distant.star on November 21, 2012, 07:11:17 PM
Given the pretty outstanding prices on the 5D III we're seeing, and the likely even lower price of the 6D, I wouldn't mind seeing a high-resolution APS-H sensor

I KNEW we couldn't get through this without someone saying he wants an APS-H. All I can say is that if you beat a dead horse long enough you'll get dog food!

To paraphrase George Carlin as the returned Jesus the Christ, APS-H definitely ain't comin' back.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Promature on November 21, 2012, 07:28:44 PM
Seriously?  Lighter, cheaper, and in the case of the 17-55, no FF equivalent (i.e., FF equivalent 27-88 f2.8 with IS).

Again, I chuckle. Guffaw, even.  While it's true that there's no 2x-7/8x f/2.8 IS zoom for FF, the crop factor affects DoF for the same framing and FF sensors collect more total light meaning lower noise. So, the real FF equivalent of the 17-55/2.8 is a 27-88mm f/4.5 lens, meaning the 24-105mm f/4L IS on FF is wider, longer, and faster (DoF for same framing), still has IS, and is a couple of hundred dollars cheaper when bought as a FF kit lens. The >1.3-stop lower noise more than compensates for the loss of 1-stop of aperture, in terms of shutter speed.  All you lose are the f/2.8 AF point(s).  Don't get me wrong - I loved the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS and I think it's the best general purpose zoom for APS-C, but the 24-105mm f/4L IS on FF is better spec'd and delivers better IQ than the 17-55 on APS-C.

I was thinking more about light capture, but you bring up good points about DoF and better ISO performance for FF.  Maybe my aversion to FF isn't quite justified.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 21, 2012, 07:39:04 PM
I was thinking more about light capture, but you bring up good points about DoF and better ISO performance for FF.  Maybe my aversion to FF isn't quite justified.

Really, FF gives you more choices.  You can choose a shallower DoF and a lot less noise, or choose the same DoF and slightly less noise, compared to APS-C.  The only relevant downside to FF is the higher cost of bodies and often lenses. If you can afford it, FF is the way to go.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: shinjuku-thief on November 21, 2012, 07:51:34 PM
i think there is no question that these upgraded lenses will be a lot more expensive.

it´s canon after all...

New things are more expensive, who'd have thunk it?

...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

This is interesting to me, as well.

And when it is released, I won't expect it to come at a lower pricepoint than the 6D.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 21, 2012, 08:01:59 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

This is interesting to me, as well.

And when it is released, I won't expect it to come at a lower pricepoint than the 6D.

If it's actually a 1-series body, I'd expect to pay $3800...and I'd cheerfully do so!
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on November 21, 2012, 08:13:49 PM
love my EF-S lenses. All of them. 10-22, 17-55, 60 Macro.
Don't care at all for any of the lenses rumored here.

I only want one more EF-S lens:
* EF-S 50-150/2.8 IS ...

Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: verysimplejason on November 21, 2012, 09:27:44 PM
I was thinking more about light capture, but you bring up good points about DoF and better ISO performance for FF.  Maybe my aversion to FF isn't quite justified.

Really, FF gives you more choices.  You can choose a shallower DoF and a lot less noise, or choose the same DoF and slightly less noise, compared to APS-C.  The only relevant downside to FF is the higher cost of bodies and often lenses. If you can afford it, FF is the way to go.

and WEIGHT (for some people...).  :)
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on November 21, 2012, 09:49:58 PM
I was thinking more about light capture, but you bring up good points about DoF and better ISO performance for FF.  Maybe my aversion to FF isn't quite justified.

Really, FF gives you more choices.  You can choose a shallower DoF and a lot less noise, or choose the same DoF and slightly less noise, compared to APS-C.  The only relevant downside to FF is the higher cost of bodies and often lenses. If you can afford it, FF is the way to go.

and WEIGHT (for some people...).  :)

When I got my 5D, my lens kit went from 8 to 5, with a reduction in total weight.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: coreyhkh on November 21, 2012, 09:52:22 PM
YES YES YES I cant wait for the new 7D I have $$$$$ waiting lol
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Don Haines on November 21, 2012, 10:36:32 PM
I was thinking more about light capture, but you bring up good points about DoF and better ISO performance for FF.  Maybe my aversion to FF isn't quite justified.

Really, FF gives you more choices.  You can choose a shallower DoF and a lot less noise, or choose the same DoF and slightly less noise, compared to APS-C.  The only relevant downside to FF is the higher cost of bodies and often lenses. If you can afford it, FF is the way to go.

I would agree that in general, FF is the way to go, but for those of us who are outdoors enthusiasts and have to carry the camera gear on our back for a week, plus tent, sleeping bag, food, etc... a lighter weight camera starts looking awful good. Most of my compatriots have gone to point and shoots, but for me the drop in IQ, ISO sensitivity, and poor lenses keeps me with DSLR's.

The smaller size body of an APS-C camera is a lot easier to take with you into the wild. Carrying a 400/5.6 lens on an APS-C body is the same reach as carrying a 640/5.6 lens on a FF body.... Which one do you want to carry up the mountain? For my use, a 7D is the ideal Canon camera and I look forward to the new version and hope that the form factor does NOT head towards a 1 series camera.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: epsiloneri on November 22, 2012, 12:55:42 AM
The only relevant downside to FF is the higher cost of bodies and often lenses.
For the equivalent specs/quality, FF lenses would actually be cheaper than APS-C - if equivalent lenses really existed. The EF-S 17-55/2.8 (on APS-C) and EF 24-105/4L (on FF) are probably the best examples, the EF 85/1.2L II (on APS-C) and EF 135/2.0L (on FF) is another example with similarly spec:ed lenses with the second lens being half the price. Even with the cheaper lens, I would expect the IQ to be better on the FF. If there was an EF-S 85/1.2 lens made that actually rivaled the EF 135/2.0L on FF, it would probably have to be even more expensive than the current EF 85/1.2L II.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: insanitybeard on November 22, 2012, 04:44:18 AM
I would agree that in general, FF is the way to go, but for those of us who are outdoors enthusiasts and have to carry the camera gear on our back for a week, plus tent, sleeping bag, food, etc... a lighter weight camera starts looking awful good. Most of my compatriots have gone to point and shoots, but for me the drop in IQ, ISO sensitivity, and poor lenses keeps me with DSLR's.

The smaller size body of an APS-C camera is a lot easier to take with you into the wild. Carrying a 400/5.6 lens on an APS-C body is the same reach as carrying a 640/5.6 lens on a FF body.... Which one do you want to carry up the mountain? For my use, a 7D is the ideal Canon camera and I look forward to the new version and hope that the form factor does NOT head towards a 1 series camera.

Having said that, the 7D body is actually heavier than the 5DII and only a bit lighter then the 5DIII, and not much smaller physically either. Being able to use smaller lenses for the same equivalent reach on the crop body (compared to FF) is another matter of course.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Zv on November 22, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
I was just think about EF-S lenses and the mount last night! How weird! It's like Canon read my mind! I was wondering if they would ever make another EF-S lens, I couldn't see it happening, but hey! now there's possibly two or three on the way!  :o

I think in regards to the discontinuation of the 1100 and 60D I am in favor. Why we need three or four levels of crop camera is strange to me. It should be ML - rebel - 7D type - 5D type FF - 1DX. Nice and simple.

I think the 10-22 and 17-55 are still pretty good, and don't urgently need replacing. I'd much much much rather see a new 50 prime than any EF-S lens. But I guess the started with the top (1DX - 5D III - 6D and new L lenses) and now they're focusing on the APS-C side of things with a 7D replacement and EF-S lenses.

Lot's of stuff to look forward to though, can't wait!
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: expatinasia on November 22, 2012, 06:53:23 AM
I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

Now that, would be an amazing camera. Interesting.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 22, 2012, 08:58:54 AM
The only relevant downside to FF is the higher cost of bodies and often lenses.
For the equivalent specs/quality, FF lenses would actually be cheaper than APS-C - if equivalent lenses really existed. The EF-S 17-55/2.8 (on APS-C) and EF 24-105/4L (on FF) are probably the best examples, the EF 85/1.2L II (on APS-C) and EF 135/2.0L (on FF) is another example with similarly spec:ed lenses with the second lens being half the price. Even with the cheaper lens, I would expect the IQ to be better on the FF. If there was an EF-S 85/1.2 lens made that actually rivaled the EF 135/2.0L on FF, it would probably have to be even more expensive than the current EF 85/1.2L II.

That's why I stated 'often'.  ;)  Consider the 85/1.2 on FF - how much would a 50mm f/0.75 lens cost?  In practice, such lenses don't usually exist, of course.  Actually, foremost in my mind was the long end, where 400mm on APS-C means a 600mm lens for FF.  That's actually my main point, FF gives you the flexibility to have f/1.2 DoF if you need it.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Craig Richardson on November 22, 2012, 11:03:52 AM
love my EF-S lenses. All of them. 10-22, 17-55, 60 Macro.
Don't care at all for any of the lenses rumored here.

I had a love / hate relationship with my 17-55.  The performance was absolutely amazing but the lens creep, especially with a polarizing filter attached, made me sell it.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Colski on November 22, 2012, 04:07:55 PM
What could they add to the 10-22 in an update?

-Wider?  Really?
-Improved IQ?  Already the best in the market.
-f/2.8 like the Tokina 11-16? I'd care, not sure most would.
-More solid construction?  Nah, still plastic.
-Weather sealing? No current canon crop camera is fully weather sealed.
-Priced competitively? Unlikely.
-The new lens cap?  YES!!!
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Don Haines on November 23, 2012, 06:50:53 PM
I would agree that in general, FF is the way to go, but for those of us who are outdoors enthusiasts and have to carry the camera gear on our back for a week, plus tent, sleeping bag, food, etc... a lighter weight camera starts looking awful good.

Having said that, the 7D body is actually heavier than the 5DII and only a bit lighter then the 5DIII, and not much smaller physically either. Being able to use smaller lenses for the same equivalent reach on the crop body (compared to FF) is another matter of course.

The 7D is the 1D of the APS-C world and the 60D is the 5D of the APS-C world.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: c.d.embrey on November 24, 2012, 09:52:02 AM

... I wouldn't mind seeing a high-resolution APS-H sensor ...

This dead horse is as flat as a pancake  :)  :)  :)

Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: c.d.embrey on November 24, 2012, 10:19:16 AM

... the 7D body is actually heavier than the 5DII and only a bit lighter then the 5DIII, and not much smaller physically either. Being able to use smaller lenses for the same equivalent reach on the crop body (compared to FF) is another matter of course.

This is why I don't own a 7D, and have no interest in a 7D2. For me, lighter/smaller is very important, so I'll wait for the 70D (or maybe a Nikon D7200).

Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: docsmith on November 24, 2012, 08:46:42 PM
I am both excited and terrified about a "Pro" 7DII.  Excited about the potential features.  Terrified regarding the potential price.  My interpretation is that the 7DII may become heir apparent to the 1DIV for wildlife, sports and cost (~$4,500).

My hope is that the 7DII gets the 5DIII AF, 18-24 MP, 1-2 stops better high-ISO performance and less noise at lower ISO.  I'd happily pay ~$2,400 for that camera.  However, if they introduce it with new sensor technology and much better noise performance, plus a pro-body...I am expecting it to cost much more.

Anyways, I always like options.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: insanitybeard on November 26, 2012, 05:05:53 AM
I would agree that in general, FF is the way to go, but for those of us who are outdoors enthusiasts and have to carry the camera gear on our back for a week, plus tent, sleeping bag, food, etc... a lighter weight camera starts looking awful good.

Having said that, the 7D body is actually heavier than the 5DII and only a bit lighter then the 5DIII, and not much smaller physically either. Being able to use smaller lenses for the same equivalent reach on the crop body (compared to FF) is another matter of course.

The 7D is the 1D of the APS-C world and the 60D is the 5D of the APS-C world.

The point I was trying to make is that you don't have to have a 1D size body for a full frame camera, and that the 7D is comparable in weight and size to the full frame non-1D equivalents.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Ellen Schmidtee on November 26, 2012, 09:47:52 AM
What could they add to the 10-22 in an update?

-Wider? Really?

Some people would like wider. I bought the Sigma 12-24mm for FF, which is equivalent to the 8-16mm on crop.

-Improved IQ?  Already the best in the market.

My impression from reviews the Sigma 8-16mm is better.

-f/2.8 like the Tokina 11-16? I'd care, not sure most would.

Same here.

-More solid construction?  Nah, still plastic.
-Weather sealing? No current canon crop camera is fully weather sealed.
-Priced competitively? Unlikely.

Agree.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: sagittariansrock on November 29, 2012, 12:08:47 PM
...a new “pro” APS-C camera, currently expected to be the EOS 7D Mark II.

I'm interested in this.  I wonder what 'pro' means?  I'd love a redesigned APS-C sensor with significantly lower high ISO noise, in a 1-series style body with the 1D X's AF system.  That's what 'pro' means to me...  :)

Other than the ergonomics of a built-in grip, weather-sealing and higher voltage battery, what other advantages can one get from a 1-series body? [this is not a rhetorical question, but out of curiosity- for the more aggressive 1-series fans in the forum]
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 29, 2012, 12:39:35 PM
Other than the ergonomics of a built-in grip, weather-sealing and higher voltage battery, what other advantages can one get from a 1-series body? [this is not a rhetorical question, but out of curiosity- for the more aggressive 1-series fans in the forum]

A lot of features are restricted to 1-series bodies, even though there's no technical reason they could not be implemented on others (and maybe that trend will increase beyond the f/8 AF capability that's coming to the 5DIII...).  Things like spot metering linked to the selected AF point, the ability to save the camera settings to a memory card (I have groups of C# settings saved, a set for people/events, another set for outdoors/wildlife, etc., all saved on an old 2 GB CF card that stays in the pocket on my Blackrapid strap).  There are other physical features, like higher VF magnification, built-in VF shutter, faster frame rate, shorter shutter lag, faster Xsync speed, more durable shutter, etc.

The only thing I really miss from the non-1-series bodies is the lack of compatibility with the convenient little IR remote shutter releases (RC-1, etc.).
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: sagittariansrock on November 29, 2012, 11:47:06 PM
Thanks, doc.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: wickidwombat on November 30, 2012, 12:14:27 AM
Other than the ergonomics of a built-in grip, weather-sealing and higher voltage battery, what other advantages can one get from a 1-series body? [this is not a rhetorical question, but out of curiosity- for the more aggressive 1-series fans in the forum]

A lot of features are restricted to 1-series bodies, even though there's no technical reason they could not be implemented on others (and maybe that trend will increase beyond the f/8 AF capability that's coming to the 5DIII...).  Things like spot metering linked to the selected AF point, the ability to save the camera settings to a memory card (I have groups of C# settings saved, a set for people/events, another set for outdoors/wildlife, etc., all saved on an old 2 GB CF card that stays in the pocket on my Blackrapid strap).  There are other physical features, like higher VF magnification, built-in VF shutter, faster frame rate, shorter shutter lag, faster Xsync speed, more durable shutter, etc.

The only thing I really miss from the non-1-series bodies is the lack of compatibility with the convenient little IR remote shutter releases (RC-1, etc.).

My favourite 1 Series features you dont get on other models

- Brighter VF
- VF block out switch for long exposures in Live view
- Af point linked spot metering
- Bracketing enabled by holding a button and dialing the top wheel to your desired bracket and no need to enter menu hell
- Exposure meter in VF displays both camera metering and flash metering side by side makes it easier to balance flash and ambient
- the ability to select which wheel controls aperture and which one controls shutter speed I used to have the top wheel control aperture and the back control shutter speed on my 1D, when I got a 5D i had to change this on my 1D so that both cameras were the same and it took a little while to adjust to the change

generally on 1D bodies there is an amazing amount of customisation ability to set it up just how you like it
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Daniel Flather on November 30, 2012, 04:15:17 PM
- Af point linked spot metering

Does that work with the flash too?
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 30, 2012, 06:22:27 PM
- Af point linked spot metering
Does that work with the flash too?

For the ambient metering, yes.  Flash metering is separate (ambient is metered with the chosen method, then the preflash fires for flash metering.  Spot metering is not really how E-TTL II flash metering works. The older E-TTL metering was biased toward the selected AF point, but the current metering determines reflective zones, biases against them, but the rest is basically evaluative c
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: Sella174 on May 17, 2013, 12:40:08 PM
What happened to this rumour? With the EOS 100D, small and compact EF-S primes are a must ... otherwise there's just no purpose in the camera. But on the other hand, Canon crippled the darned thing so much, it in fact does have no purpose ... just like this post, I guess.
Title: Re: New EF-S Lenses Are Coming [CR2]
Post by: bseitz234 on May 17, 2013, 02:07:18 PM
What happened to this rumour? With the EOS 100D, small and compact EF-S primes are a must ... otherwise there's just no purpose in the camera. But on the other hand, Canon crippled the darned thing so much, it in fact does have no purpose ... just like this post, I guess.
I love stream-of-consciousness posts.