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Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Video => Topic started by: scoobert on December 27, 2012, 08:05:45 AM

Title: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: scoobert on December 27, 2012, 08:05:45 AM
so for Christmas i received a hero 3 black.
it does 240FPS at 820x480
120FPS in 720P
60FPS in 1080P

why is it so much faster then my 7D?
can the 7D be hacked to do more then 240FPS?

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e167/scoobertscoobydoo/cameracamera_zps91075044.jpg)
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: 7enderbender on December 27, 2012, 08:15:51 AM
Yes. It's all essentially the same hardware and merely a software limitation imposed by the Canon marketing department.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: scoobert on December 27, 2012, 08:29:37 AM
Yes. It's all essentially the same hardware and merely a software limitation imposed by the Canon marketing department.

i don't get that.
same as what?
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: sanj on December 27, 2012, 08:33:23 AM
I do not understand this at all.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: scoobert on December 27, 2012, 08:39:29 AM
I do not understand this at all.

i am wondering why the 7D cannot do higher frame rates.
with the super high ISO i would imagine it could do well beyond the 240FPS of the hero 3 as far as lighting.
with faster processing i would think it could do much faster FPS.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Videoshooter on December 27, 2012, 08:46:03 AM
Different beasts. The 7D is three years old now, in modern tech terms that's ancient. When the 7D came out, 120fps was not even on anybodies radar as a digital shooting format - except with the Red One, which would've set you back quite a bit more than a 7D.

There's all sorts or things that effect what a camera is or is not capable of, including heat dissipation, sensor read-out speed & refresh rate, sampling method, processing power, buffer size, etc, etc. My guess is that the (relatively) ancient 7D is lacking a lot of what is required to shoot proper 720p at 120fps.

The Hero 3, on the other hand, is brand spanking new and has been developed as a special-purpose tool. Action sports is it's primary market and the guys at GoPro have worked hard to deliver a product that meets the needs of the target market. Of course it comes without all the bells and whistles that even an ancient 7D has, like a large sensor, interchangeable lenses, 18mp RAW stills at 8fps, manual everything, etc, etc.

I can only dream, though, that the next generation DSLR's do have 720p at 120fps. Panasonic have introduced it on several of their cameras, and I'm considering buying a FZ200 for that feature alone. If a Canon 70D or 7DmkII shot nice, clean 720p at 120fps, it would definitely make my RED Scarlet dream redundant, at least until clients starts asking me to shoot 4K.

Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: mediumtv on December 27, 2012, 08:46:15 AM
Why can't the gopro mount an EF telephoto? Why can't the gopro take a 30 second exposure photo?

...
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: bchernicoff on December 27, 2012, 09:32:42 AM
You are being mocked for asking this.

The GoPro was designed from the ground up as an action video camera.
The 7D was designed to be a very capable still photo camera with a cinema mode. I wish people would stop calling it a video mode. The cinema mode is designed to allow cinematographers to film things cheaper and with smaller gear than possible traditionally. No matter how much people might want to think of them as a video camera, they aren't.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: awinphoto on December 27, 2012, 10:17:21 AM
Also... sensor size from 7D vs hero plus different purposes...  the 7D was designed as a sports CAMERA with video as an add-on... the hero is a video camera... nothing more nothing less.  Newsflash, I would also say if and when the 7d2 comes out, I wouldn't magically expect 60fps 1080p, 120fps 720, etc...
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Pieces Of E on December 27, 2012, 11:18:26 AM
scoobert, have you looked at what Magic Lantern can do for your 7D?
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: paul13walnut5 on December 28, 2012, 02:13:24 PM
Why doesn't my tractor taste like an apple when i bite it?

Why can't my leathrman include a two week holiday to spain?

Why can't a dslr behave like an action cam?

Somebody here is being very silly, and I'm sure it isn't me.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Axilrod on December 28, 2012, 02:34:46 PM
Why doesn't my tractor taste like an apple when i bite it?

Why can't my leathrman include a two week holiday to spain?

Why can't a dslr behave like an action cam?

Somebody here is being very silly, and I'm sure it isn't me.

 ;D I knew stamping "4K" on the GoPro and the high framerates would spawn threads like this.  Someone was whining earlier that there is no excuse for all DSLR's to have 4K because the GoPro does, as if it were comparable to a RED or something.  I got my Hero 3 yesterday and believe me, the 4K looks like complete garbage and was obviously added to fluff the specs.  The IQ from a 7D is far superior, that being said it's not really a fair comparison, two totally different cameras.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Drizzt321 on December 28, 2012, 02:42:02 PM
Basically what everyone else has said (older hardware, stills camera that does video, etc), but also the fact that the resolution on the sensor is vastly larger than the sensor on the GoPro, not to mention the physical size of the sensor and associated heat disipation, pixel read-out timing, etc.

Basically, 2 devices that have drastically different purposes, with one of them happening to be able to do _some_ of the stuff the purpose built device can.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: 2n10 on December 28, 2012, 04:01:41 PM
Why doesn't my tractor taste like an apple when i bite it?

Why can't my leathrman include a two week holiday to spain?

Why can't a dslr behave like an action cam?

Somebody here is being very silly, and I'm sure it isn't me.

Couldn't have said it any better.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: fonts on December 28, 2012, 04:17:46 PM
Why doesn't my tractor taste like an apple when i bite it?

Why can't my leathrman include a two week holiday to spain?

Why can't a dslr behave like an action cam?

Somebody here is being very silly, and I'm sure it isn't me.

 ;D I knew stamping "4K" on the GoPro and the high framerates would spawn threads like this.  Someone was whining earlier that there is no excuse for all DSLR's to have 4K because the GoPro does, as if it were comparable to a RED or something.  I got my Hero 3 yesterday and believe me, the 4K looks like complete garbage and was obviously added to fluff the specs.  The IQ from a 7D is far superior, that being said it's not really a fair comparison, two totally different cameras.

It's still 4k nonetheless, you quote "stamping" like it's not technically. It's a great small camera, that is capable of 4k. The size difference in sensors makes a big factor, but what if you had a sensor 4times larger than RED, would you label RED as "stamping" 4K? Just saying.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Malte_P on December 28, 2012, 04:59:20 PM
i am wondering why the 7D cannot do higher frame rates.
with the super high ISO i would imagine it could do well beyond the 240FPS of the hero 3 as far as lighting.

sorry im lost here.....
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Mantanuska on December 28, 2012, 05:40:26 PM
Why are people even replying to this post?
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Malte_P on December 28, 2012, 06:11:05 PM
Why are people even replying to this post?

well not everyone here is a expert...  ::)

i guess your not an expert in everything and if you ask a question at a forum you would like to have a honest answer.   ;)

Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Halfrack on December 28, 2012, 07:43:14 PM
so for Christmas i received a hero 3 black.
it does 240FPS at 820x480
120FPS in 720P
60FPS in 1080P

why is it so much faster then my 7D?
can the 7D be hacked to do more then 240FPS?

Scoobert, you do realize the differences involved here right?  You would be better to compare an iPhone 5 to the GoPro.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: gkaefer on December 28, 2012, 08:04:20 PM
so for Christmas i received a hero 3 black.
it does 240FPS at 820x480
120FPS in 720P
60FPS in 1080P

why is it so much faster then my 7D?
can the 7D be hacked to do more then 240FPS?


Scoobert, you do realize the differences involved here right?  You would be better to compare an iPhone 5 to the GoPro.

lol. same fault. with an iPhone5 you cant create such an video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A3PDXmYoF5U# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A3PDXmYoF5U#)!

but amazing to see the difference in quality between gopro 2 and gopro 3 now. in less than one year. this speed in development cant be seen on DSLR market.

so lets assume in one year to christmas sale the gopro 4 is coming out. how big will than the difference to an DSLR....

Georg
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: fegari on December 28, 2012, 09:27:00 PM
Why doesn't my tractor taste like an apple when i bite it?

Why can't my leathrman include a two week holiday to spain?

Why can't a dslr behave like an action cam?

Somebody here is being very silly, and I'm sure it isn't me.

Oh boy, do I disagree with your last sentence...
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: paul13walnut5 on December 28, 2012, 11:04:12 PM
fegari
Quote
Oh boy, do I disagree with your last sentence...

As is your right.

You'll see I use a 7D and a GoPro, so it's not like I have any direct idea of comparative qualities, strengths and weaknesses or target market or for that matter cost.

When somebody asks a silly question I always think it best to give a really silly answer, as the subtleties of irony can sometimes be lost.

I was a newb once, and I asked a professional video suppliers if they did monochrome tape.  The guy said they could order some in along with tartan paint and elbow grease,  and in the meantime he could offer me a long stand etc etc etc.

And I still ask silly questions.  Sometimes in earnest.  Sometimes to poke a viper.

That teacher that told you there was no such thing as a silly question was wrong.  There are questions that are sillier than even I could imagine just waiting to be asked.   

Thank you for your feedback.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: fegari on December 29, 2012, 09:23:38 AM
fegari
Quote
Oh boy, do I disagree with your last sentence...

As is your right.

You'll see I use a 7D and a GoPro, so it's not like I have any direct idea of comparative qualities, strengths and weaknesses or target market or for that matter cost.

When somebody asks a silly question I always think it best to give a really silly answer, as the subtleties of irony can sometimes be lost.

I was a newb once, and I asked a professional video suppliers if they did monochrome tape.  The guy said they could order some in along with tartan paint and elbow grease,  and in the meantime he could offer me a long stand etc etc etc.

And I still ask silly questions.  Sometimes in earnest.  Sometimes to poke a viper.

That teacher that told you there was no such thing as a silly question was wrong.  There are questions that are sillier than even I could imagine just waiting to be asked.   

Thank you for your feedback.

"That teacher that told you there was no such thing as a silly question was wrong"

You almost got that one right. In fact my teacher told me there are only silly people and that questions are just questions.

Anyway, I have no interest in hijacking this post or entering into pointless arguments so I'll stop here, it is just annoying to still seeing people getting picked on because of their questions.   :P
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: ChilledXpress on December 29, 2012, 11:24:47 AM
Why doesn't my tractor taste like an apple when i bite it?

Why can't my leathrman include a two week holiday to spain?

Why can't a dslr behave like an action cam?

Somebody here is being very silly, and I'm sure it isn't me.

+1

Thought this post was spam for Hero. They are great little cameras but really laughed out load once I dug deeper. I may pickup the 3 now seeing the vid. The OP's comment can't be serious though. If he is, crazy to say the least. You can’t reply with logic to a post like this because the enthusiasm of a newbie with fun gear is blinding.  8)
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Vivid Color on December 29, 2012, 01:58:45 PM
I won't get into the argument over which is "better," but if you wish to make a video like the one posted on this forum, I will point out that the hero3 would be easier to wear on one's head than the 7D.  ;)
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: westr70 on December 29, 2012, 04:05:48 PM
I won't get into the argument over which is "better," but if you wish to make a video like the one posted on this forum, I will point out that the hero3 would be easier to wear on one's head than the 7D.  ;)

+1, I'd like to see the out-takes of that video.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: paul13walnut5 on December 30, 2012, 05:25:46 AM
I won't get into the argument over which is "better," but if you wish to make a video like the one posted on this forum, I will point out that the hero3 would be easier to wear on one's head than the 7D.  ;)

Nobody has got into any argument about which is better, I think the general point is that they are so different that they are complimentary rather than in competition.

As POV action cams go, GoPro dominate the market, and for very good reason.

If all you need for you video is POV action then great, all you need is a go pro.
If you want to do more, then you need more kit.

I wouldn't wear my spds for a 10 mile hike, and I wouldn't wear my brashers for cycling.

This is really all folk are getting at.

Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: expatinasia on December 30, 2012, 06:53:27 AM
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A3PDXmYoF5U# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A3PDXmYoF5U#)

Wow. Thanks for sharing that. Must be one of the very best marketing videos I have ever seen. It is long, but I watched it all, and I want one!! I have no idea what I would do with it, but it definitely has that cool factor! I am really looking forward to GoPro 4 coming out I can watch that marketing video. ;)
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Don Haines on January 04, 2013, 07:36:52 PM
Data from the sensor has to be processed. It can be processed through hardware or it can be processed through software. Hardware processing is at least an order of magnitude faster than software processing, but at the expense of flexibility.

On a digital SLR, most of the effort has gone into hardware processing of still images, while on camcorders the hardware is optimized for moving images.... therefore we can safely say that a video camera is better at being a video camera and a still camera is better at being a still camera....

The GoPro sucks when it comes to lens choice (none), but the small size and ruggedness can never be matched by DSLR's.

I bought one so I could use it for tasks where I was not willing to take my DSLR..... like underwater and particularly kite photography.... I don't want to be the one to tell my sweetie why I borrowed her camera, a nice chunk of L glass, and then how after a screaming nosedive from 500 feet I can't find all the parts...
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Mantanuska on January 04, 2013, 08:37:45 PM
Data from the sensor has to be processed. It can be processed through hardware or it can be processed through software. Hardware processing is at least an order of magnitude faster than software processing, but at the expense of flexibility.



I'm not quite sure what you mean here. My understanding is that hardware is essentially useless without software instructing it what to do. You can't really have functionality without both being present.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: Don Haines on January 04, 2013, 09:16:26 PM
Data from the sensor has to be processed. It can be processed through hardware or it can be processed through software. Hardware processing is at least an order of magnitude faster than software processing, but at the expense of flexibility.



I'm not quite sure what you mean here. My understanding is that hardware is essentially useless without software instructing it what to do. You can't really have functionality without both being present.

Some software can be implemented in hardware. This is often done through custom IC's, usually ASIC's where "gates are blown" during configuration to create a custom chip... once you configure it, you are stuck with that configuration, although some chips are re-writeable... Image processing tends to allow massivly parallel operations and this type of processing lends itself well to hardware acceleration. some operations that require a hundred or so opertations in software can be done in one clock cycle in hardware. A still camera is optimized for still image processing, a video camera is optimized for encoding the change between two sucessive images.
Title: Re: my new hero3 black, why is it better then my 7D?
Post by: eyeland on January 04, 2013, 09:56:52 PM
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A3PDXmYoF5U# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A3PDXmYoF5U#)

Wow. Thanks for sharing that. Must be one of the very best marketing videos I have ever seen. It is long, but I watched it all, and I want one!! I have no idea what I would do with it, but it definitely has that cool factor! I am really looking forward to GoPro 4 coming out I can watch that marketing video. ;)
lol +1 - sure would have liked to have a gopro3 back when I was young enough to do crazy things rather than just document them :D
Granted, the OP might be trolling and granted, the GoPro is a one trick pony, but what a trick...
Only little more than 10 years ago, a 10$ dispossable camera seemed like such luxury faced with the alternative of absolutely NO way of documenting our epic failings in the alps...
oh well.... blabla and then some, when one resorts to reading these posts its too late or too bored :) better put the cap back on the bottle and hit the sack