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Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on January 01, 2013, 11:01:41 AM

Title: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Canon Rumors on January 01, 2013, 11:01:41 AM
From Xitek
A collection of camera body rumors has appeared on Xitek. Below is a collection of rumors from Japan’s Impress magazine.

EOS 7D Mark II – New Sensor, 10fps, ISO 25600

EOS 70D – Same Sensor as 7D Mark II, 3″ flip screen, ISO 25600

EOS M2 – New Mirrorless

EOS 1DSx – The big megapixel camera in 2013

Predictions for 2013

Predictions for 2013

Source: [NL] via [XT]

cr

Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: nemethv on January 01, 2013, 11:05:16 AM
3 fps for the 70D? That's pretty poor performance...disappointing...
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: tombu on January 01, 2013, 11:05:40 AM
3fps for 70D, lol? But it's interesting to see if canon can deliver new awesome sensor.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Immaculens on January 01, 2013, 11:13:03 AM
70D info cannot be credible... the 60D got so much flack on a large scale due to some downgrade features vs the 50D, and Canon simply would not do it 'again. 3fps cannot be right, especially with Digic5...
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on January 01, 2013, 11:21:45 AM
FPS of a 70D depends on the number of MP.  If high MP, fps is less.  The 7D MK II may have dual processors like the MK I.
There are two versions of the Digic V processor, and the cheap one is slower. 
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 11:23:44 AM
24 MP sensors, it seems.  So with a Digic 5 (not 5+) in the 70D, 3 fps makes sense (technically, not sure it makes sense from a marketing standpoint).
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: tome223 on January 01, 2013, 11:23:56 AM
Havent seen much news on the 70d so glad to see this - and glad to see the pictured  70d has the flip screen!  wonder how many af points the 70d would have?   hopefully not 9.  11? 19? 


I'll put my 60d on ebay once this is cr2. 
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: jdramirez on January 01, 2013, 11:27:53 AM
I love my 60D.  And the 70D as listed isn't an adequate upgrade... I really don't want to pay for a 5d mkiii, but it looks like that is what my upgrade path will be.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 11:32:49 AM
I love my 60D.  And the 70D as listed isn't an adequate upgrade... I really don't want to pay for a 5d mkiii, but it looks like that is what my upgrade path will be.

That seems to fit with Canon's strategy.  The 60D was an upgrade path for Rebel/xxxD owners, and for 50D owners, the 60D wasn't an upgrade - the 7D was a better choice.  These specs are consistent with the same: xxxD -> 70Dor 6D, 60D -> 7DII or 5DIII.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: noncho on January 01, 2013, 11:35:44 AM
Just can't be right(3fps), even 650D has 5... 6fps is possible.
I like 60D, don't need bigger body without flip screen like 7D II.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Bruce Wayne on January 01, 2013, 11:46:14 AM
I don't read Japanese, but the characters after 3.0 don't match the ones after 10 in the 7dii description. Maybe it means 3.0 inch screen? Makes no sense for the 70D to be lower fps than the t4i and the same as the t3.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: distant.star on January 01, 2013, 11:48:19 AM
.
This post should get the juices going and the spittoon overflowing!!

I believe in the 7D2, not so much the other.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: jebrady03 on January 01, 2013, 11:56:43 AM
I'm okay with 3 FPS on the 70D if everything else is dramatically improved.  Heck, I'm okay with 1 FPS.  I'm not a "spray and pray" kind of guy and my subjects don't demand it.  In fact, with a flip out screen, I can't imagine the target audience is either.  I use live view focusing quite often and while faster focusing would be helpful, faster FPS would not be.

Having said that, to get me to upgrade from my 60D, they need to release a FF with a flip out LCD (I was initially hoping that would be the 6D).  Then, they can have my money.  Until then, probably not!

Also, this is an EXCELLENT point
I don't read Japanese, but the characters after 3.0 don't match the ones after 10 in the 7dii description. Maybe it means 3.0 inch screen?
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: preppyak on January 01, 2013, 11:58:31 AM
I don't read Japanese, but the characters after 3.0 don't match the ones after 10 in the 7dii description. Maybe it means 3.0 inch screen? Makes no sense for the 70D to be lower fps than the t4i and the same as the t3.
Seriously. Because even if they gave it an awesome auto-focus system (19pt or higher), what good is that at 3fps.

Then again, if the strategy was to lose all their entry business to Nikon, then that would work well being spec'd against a camera that does 39pt AF, 5fps, at the same 24mp
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: jt on January 01, 2013, 12:02:28 PM
The specs on the D70 does NOT say 3fps. It says "3.0-inch Variable Angle LCD"
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: artsmalley on January 01, 2013, 12:06:53 PM
I don't read Japanese, but the characters after 3.0 don't match the ones after 10 in the 7dii description. Maybe it means 3.0 inch screen? Makes no sense for the 70D to be lower fps than the t4i and the same as the t3.

I read Japanese. The characters in the second bullet point under the 70D do refer to the display and not fps. Not sure if people are getting the 3 fps from there or elsewhere in the text.

Also the important thing to realize about this is that it is some person or groups "prediction" as 予言 is clearly labeled in red in the article title at the top. Also next to each camera they they give percentages for probability. 70% for the 70D then 85% for the 7D Mark II, then 80% for the EOS M2 specs, then 50% for the EOS-1DSx specs.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Haydn1971 on January 01, 2013, 12:11:58 PM
I don't read Japanese, but the characters after 3.0 don't match the ones after 10 in the 7dii description. Maybe it means 3.0 inch screen? Makes no sense for the 70D to be lower fps than the t4i and the same as the t3.

Agreed, 10fps is a headline for the 7DII, 3.0" articulated screen is the headline for the 60D, both as Neuro pointed out at 24mpx
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: samkatz on January 01, 2013, 12:16:24 PM
yeah, hard to believe they would make the fps of the 70D less than the 650D/T4i. Who would buy it???

Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: traveller on January 01, 2013, 12:27:45 PM
These are only one website's predictions of what they expect to see in 2013.  None of what they're suggesting is exactly unexpected or controversial (the 3fps 70D aside - assuming that was their meaning).  Personally I'd trust Craig's predictions a lot more than Xitech's!  ::)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Ricku on January 01, 2013, 12:31:41 PM
1DSX.

I don't like the sound of that. It means that the high MP body will have built in grip (elephant sized camera).

As if our camera bags aren't full and heavy enough already?  :P This camera will be the final step to killing my neck and shoulders.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: dstppy on January 01, 2013, 12:50:10 PM
CR0? :P

5.3 FPS on the 60D, which has already been re-positioned . . . how they going to spin it?

New processor + MFA and they can sell it for another two years with nothing else.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 01, 2013, 12:59:01 PM
1DSX.

I don't like the sound of that. It means that the high MP body will have built in grip (elephant sized camera).

As if our camera bags aren't full and heavy enough already?  :P This camera will be the final step to killing my neck and shoulders.

True that!  At football I had a 1DX with a 400 on a monopod and another slinged around my neck with 70-200 and usually Sunday and Monday I couldn't walk, haha.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 01:00:36 PM
The specs on the D70 does NOT say 3fps. It says "3.0-inch Variable Angle LCD"

Thanks for the clarification!
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Famateur on January 01, 2013, 01:13:47 PM
I started saving for the 60D about the time the 70D rumors started to fly. Then the rumors died down for awhile. Then the 60D showed-up at Costco, and I figured the 70D must be on the way sometime in the next few months. The huge drop in price seems to confirm that for me ($899 body when I started saving, $669 now).

So here is my "IF" list:


Then I'll buy the 70D as soon as I've saved enough. I might also add AFMA to the "IF" list.

My two big worries are:


The new sensor and possible 25,600 ISO have me hopeful on noise. The fact that the T4i is down to $599 has me hoping that the 70D price won't be more than double that.

Hoping...
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: motorhead on January 01, 2013, 01:27:26 PM
The 1Dsx will do for me provided Canon manage to leapfrog Nikons current world beating performance with the 800E. If they can achieve that, then I will be in heaven, if not, then its goodbye Canon. I'm not hanging about if they continue to produce cameras with noise and banding issues but with excessive ISO figures.

Having said that, my present 5DII is OK for the moment, so I would rather they spent more time getting it right than a rushed "knee jerk reaction". 
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: c.d.embrey on January 01, 2013, 01:43:38 PM
Not everyone wants/needs high frames per second. When was the last time you shot a portrait at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time that you hot landscape at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot table-top at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot your vacation at 10 FPS ??

One of the things I've come to like on my Sony NEX-5n is touch screen focusing. An incredibly handy feature I'd like to see on the 70D.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 01, 2013, 01:49:55 PM
Not everyone wants/needs high frames per second. When was the last time you shot a portrait at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time that you hot landscape at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot table-top at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot your vacation at 10 FPS ??

One of the things I've come to like on my Sony NEX-5n is touch screen focusing. An incredibly handy feature I'd like to see on the 70D.

Um, that's why there are multiple models being discussed as potential announcements this year.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: c.d.embrey on January 01, 2013, 01:55:51 PM
Will the EOS M2 have useful features ??? Or will it be more of the same-old same-old from Canon :(

Canon worries about canniblization, but someone else will eat their lunch if they are not careful.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Ricku on January 01, 2013, 01:58:56 PM
Will the EOS M2 have useful features ??? Or will it be more of the same-old same-old from Canon :(

Canon worries about canniblization, but someone else will eat their lunch if they are not careful.

First company to release affordable mirrorless FF, will eat Canon's lunch for sure.

Sony is halfway there with their RX1. All that is missing now is a model with interchangable lens system.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: c.d.embrey on January 01, 2013, 02:02:51 PM

Um, that's why there are multiple models being discussed as potential announcements this year.

Yes, but all the complaing centers on the alledged specs of the 70D :) the lowest cost DSLR being discussed :) not the 7D or 1DSx ;)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 02:06:57 PM
Not everyone wants/needs high frames per second. When was the last time you shot a portrait at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time that you hot landscape at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot table-top at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot your vacation at 10 FPS ??

Never.  But last week I shot portraits at 12 fps. A few months ago, I shot my vacation at 12 fps. This morning I shot macro at 12 fps.

Your needs and usage patterns aren't everyone's.   :P
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 01, 2013, 02:10:17 PM

Um, that's why there are multiple models being discussed as potential announcements this year.

Yes, but all the complaing centers on the alledged specs of the 70D :) the lowest cost DSLR being discussed :) not the 7D or 1DSx ;)

Yeah.  I won't lie.  It would be so nice to get a good, FF camera, low ISO and high DR, at under $2000.  I can dream right?  :).
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: c.d.embrey on January 01, 2013, 02:20:18 PM
First company to release affordable mirrorless FF, will eat Canon's lunch for sure.

Sony is halfway there with their RX1. All that is missing now is a model with interchangable lens system.

They won't need to FullFrame to eat Canon's lunch. DPReview did a reader pole, and named the Olympus OM-D E-M5 as the camera of the year http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/01/01/best-camera-of-2012-results (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/01/01/best-camera-of-2012-results)

The Olympus E-PM2 has the same sensor and the fast-focus of the OM-D E-M5, while costing significantly less than the Canon EOS M.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: ddl on January 01, 2013, 02:22:48 PM
High FPS and high resolution together would mean 1 body could do it all which means maybe i can justify one purchase to meet all my needs versus two.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: RS2021 on January 01, 2013, 02:26:45 PM
Canon worries about canniblization, but someone else will eat their lunch if they are not careful.

Well, Nikon and Sony ate Canon's lunch, dinner, and elevensies with the introduction of D800 and D600 in a large bite and also with other ancillary nips here and bites there...

This only makes sense when one fairly takes into account that Canon is the big dog in the kennel...any stolen lunch, perhaps even a bite says something.

But Canon will prepare another spread no doubt. That's what these rumors suggest.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Stu_bert on January 01, 2013, 02:27:36 PM
The 1Dsx will do for me provided Canon manage to leapfrog Nikons current world beating performance with the 800E. If they can achieve that, then I will be in heaven, if not, then its goodbye Canon. I'm not hanging about if they continue to produce cameras with noise and banding issues but with excessive ISO figures.

Having said that, my present 5DII is OK for the moment, so I would rather they spent more time getting it right than a rushed "knee jerk reaction".

Just interested, what do you think an $8,000+ 38+MP camera will do for you when you can currently live with a $1,300 21MP 5D MkII? What do you shoot now, and what do you do with your output that would necessitate such an upscale?

D800 has higher dynamic range and also more resolving capability. Does not infer you need the high MP, just some of the other features....
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Sabaki on January 01, 2013, 02:28:47 PM
Hey guys :)

I need a bit of an education from you guys.

What effects noise at higher ISO or longer shutter speeds? Is it purely processor related or does the pixel size of an APS-C body contribute as well?

I own a 500D and I was put off by the 7D not having a definite advantage when it came to noise.

I so hope this is the one area they focus on. The top Canon APS-C body, that many will attach their 400mm+ glass to should be just better.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Don Haines on January 01, 2013, 02:34:11 PM
Hey guys :)

I need a bit of an education from you guys.

What effects noise at higher ISO or longer shutter speeds? Is it purely processor related or does the pixel size of an APS-C body contribute as well?

I own a 500D and I was put off by the 7D not having a definite advantage when it came to noise.

I so hope this is the one area they focus on. The top Canon APS-C body, that many will attach their 400mm+ glass to should be just better.

Pixel size primarily, you can do wonders with software, but what you can do with software of a FF, you can do to an APS-C
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Don Haines on January 01, 2013, 02:39:50 PM
Not everyone wants/needs high frames per second. When was the last time you shot a portrait at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time that you hot landscape at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot table-top at 10 FPS ??? When was the last time you shot your vacation at 10 FPS ??

Never.  But last week I shot portraits at 12 fps. A few months ago, I shot my vacation at 12 fps. This morning I shot macro at 12 fps.

Your needs and usage patterns aren't everyone's.   :P

he did start the post with "Not everybody" :)

I always shoot group portraits with a burst.....there always seems to be someone blinking, yawning, or that momentary facial twitch.... and if I don't get a clean one I resort to photoshop.... but when I do this it is in the "slow burst" mode of around 2 frames per second.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Sabaki on January 01, 2013, 02:49:35 PM
Hey guys :)

I need a bit of an education from you guys.

What effects noise at higher ISO or longer shutter speeds? Is it purely processor related or does the pixel size of an APS-C body contribute as well?

I own a 500D and I was put off by the 7D not having a definite advantage when it came to noise.

I so hope this is the one area they focus on. The top Canon APS-C body, that many will attach their 400mm+ glass to should be just better.

Pixel size primarily, you can do wonders with software, but what you can do with software of a FF, you can do to an APS-C
Software is a solution but its disheartening owning the very best crop sensor body and having very visible noise shooting at ISO 400/800. It should be at worst twice as good IMO.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: tpatana on January 01, 2013, 02:57:49 PM
The specs on the D70 does NOT say 3fps. It says "3.0-inch Variable Angle LCD"

I was just coming to say same thing.

I wonder what is the price point for each of those? $1k8 for 7D2, $1k for 70D? That'd be my guesses.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Fleetie on January 01, 2013, 03:00:50 PM
Hey guys :)

I need a bit of an education from you guys.

What effects noise at higher ISO or longer shutter speeds? Is it purely processor related or does the pixel size of an APS-C body contribute as well?

I own a 500D and I was put off by the 7D not having a definite advantage when it came to noise.

I so hope this is the one area they focus on. The top Canon APS-C body, that many will attach their 400mm+ glass to should be just better.

Sensor temperature - quite strongly, apparently.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: that1guyy on January 01, 2013, 03:01:06 PM
That 70D rumor has got to be fake. How can they literally take away features and call it a new camera and sell it for a higher price? The T4i will surpass it in fps? Wow...

I've been waiting for this camera for a year now and these rumors are just a slap to the face. Hopefully it has 6fps and better image quality and AF system than 60D. Give up higher frame rates in video too.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Famateur on January 01, 2013, 03:11:33 PM
Quote
That 70D rumor has got to be fake. How can they literally take away features and call it a new camera and sell it for a higher price? The T4i will surpass it in fps? Wow...

I've been waiting for this camera for a year now and these rumors are just a slap to the face. Hopefully it has 6fps and better image quality and AF system than 60D. Give up higher frame rates in video too.

That's how I felt at first. Then looking at the image more closely, it was clear that the characters after the 3.0 for the 70D were different than the characters after the 10 for the 7DII. I figured it was for a 3.0 Inch Vari-Angle LCD.

Others who can read Japanese have confirmed that it refers to screen and not FPS. Whew!
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: RS2021 on January 01, 2013, 03:11:51 PM
The 1Dsx will do for me provided Canon manage to leapfrog Nikons current world beating performance with the 800E. If they can achieve that, then I will be in heaven, if not, then its goodbye Canon. I'm not hanging about if they continue to produce cameras with noise and banding issues but with excessive ISO figures.

Having said that, my present 5DII is OK for the moment, so I would rather they spent more time getting it right than a rushed "knee jerk reaction".

I smiled a little..."worldbeating"...

And as for what you will require Canon to deliver on their high MP flagship at thousands of dollars more... so, you, a 5D II user, will continue to "hang about" ... I am sure they are shaking in their boots :)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: TrumpetPower! on January 01, 2013, 03:27:57 PM
The big megapickle camera will not be branded as the 1DSx, for the exact same reason that, lo these many years ago, the compact Mac with a 68030 CPU was branded an SE/30 instead of, in keeping with the IIx and the IIcx, the SEx.

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 03:29:07 PM
The big megapickle camera will not be branded as the 1DSx, for the exact same reason that, lo these many years ago, the compact Mac with a 68030 CPU was branded an SE/30 instead of, in keeping with the IIx and the IIcx, the SEx.

How about 1D Xs?
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: RS2021 on January 01, 2013, 03:31:41 PM
How about 1D Xs?

+1

1DXs
then in three years 1DXs Mark II (50MP or higher) and so on...
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: RS2021 on January 01, 2013, 03:34:28 PM
Then we reach a point where our house cats' whiskers can take up 2MP each! :P
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: RichM on January 01, 2013, 04:33:03 PM
I'm anxiously waiting for / saving for the 7d2.  Sadly, I'd order today if it were available, without knowing the specs.  My expectation is that it will be targeted at the sports photographer, continue to be APS-C, and have significantly improved high ISO performance and somewhat improved focusing.  I'm hoping for a price point in the $2,000 - $2,500 range.   

For me, I'm wanting for a new sports photography setup, and am quite happy with the 5d2 for landscape/portrait photography.  Having 2 bodies (although quite different in nature), provides a measure of insurance. 

Fingers crossed for a quick announcement and release....
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 01, 2013, 04:39:44 PM
I'm anxiously waiting for / saving for the 7d2.  Sadly, I'd order today if it were available, without knowing the specs.  My expectation is that it will be targeted at the sports photographer, continue to be APS-C, and have significantly improved high ISO performance and somewhat improved focusing.  I'm hoping for a price point in the $2,000 - $2,500 range.   

For me, I'm wanting for a new sports photography setup, and am quite happy with the 5d2 for landscape/portrait photography.  Having 2 bodies (although quite different in nature), provides a measure of insurance. 

Fingers crossed for a quick announcement and release....

Rich,

To go off your point, when the 1DX was announced, part of me was a bit disappointed in that I was really looking for a 1D Mark IV replacement; one with APS-H 1.3x crop factor, with improved high ISO performance.  If the 7D Mark II let's say, can shoot shots with NR that look good at ISO 5000-6400, it'll be popular for sure!
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: tiger82 on January 01, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
I'd certainly upgrade my 7D to a 7D Mark II with the same frame rate as the 1D4 and much better IQ than the current 7D.  I like being able to keep the 1.6x reach that I would have sacrificed to 1.3x with a 1D4 or give up with a 1Dx.  If the 7D2 is half the price of a 1Dx or less, I'll buy one in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: jondave on January 01, 2013, 05:00:21 PM
The 1Dsx will do for me provided Canon manage to leapfrog Nikons current world beating performance with the 800E. If they can achieve that, then I will be in heaven, if not, then its goodbye Canon. I'm not hanging about if they continue to produce cameras with noise and banding issues but with excessive ISO figures.

Having said that, my present 5DII is OK for the moment, so I would rather they spent more time getting it right than a rushed "knee jerk reaction".

Just interested, what do you think an $8,000+ 38+MP camera will do for you when you can currently live with a $1,300 21MP 5D MkII? What do you shoot now, and what do you do with your output that would necessitate such an upscale?

Pixel-peep and read DxO charts. That's the current trend for 'photographers' these days, at least from what I've been seeing in here. :P
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 01, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
I'd certainly upgrade my 7D to a 7D Mark II with the same frame rate as the 1D4 and much better IQ than the current 7D.  I like being able to keep the 1.6x reach that I would have sacrificed to 1.3x with a 1D4 or give up with a 1Dx.  If the 7D2 is half the price of a 1Dx or less, I'll buy one in a heartbeat.

Well, at ISO 800, you actually have more "reach" with the 1D4 than the 7D, because IQ is so much superior on the 1D4, you can crop beyond the 7D cropping.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: jondave on January 01, 2013, 05:14:38 PM
The big megapickle camera will not be branded as the 1DSx, for the exact same reason that, lo these many years ago, the compact Mac with a 68030 CPU was branded an SE/30 instead of, in keeping with the IIx and the IIcx, the SEx.

How about 1D Xs?

If only because Canon didn't learn from the naming confusion between 1Ds and 1D then yes.

Pity that when it comes to camera names Canon are incredibly so unimaginative.

Confusing only for the people who couldn't afford to buy it. I don't know anyone who mistakenly bought one for the other.

So what do you suggest Canon name the new body?
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 05:18:17 PM
I'd certainly upgrade my 7D to a 7D Mark II with the same frame rate as the 1D4 and much better IQ than the current 7D.  I like being able to keep the 1.6x reach that I would have sacrificed to 1.3x with a 1D4 or give up with a 1Dx.  If the 7D2 is half the price of a 1Dx or less, I'll buy one in a heartbeat.

Well, at ISO 800, you actually have more "reach" with the 1D4 than the 7D, because IQ is so much superior on the 1D4, you can crop beyond the 7D cropping.

And the 1D X is a further step up from the 1DIV for ISO performance - you can crop a 1D X image to the 7D FoV and have better IQ, albeit with fewer MP. 

The argument is much like, 'I'd go FF if there was an equivalent to the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS,' stated by people who are blissfully unaware that the 24-105mm f/4L IS on FF is wider, longer, and effectively faster.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Don Haines on January 01, 2013, 05:59:07 PM
I'd certainly upgrade my 7D to a 7D Mark II with the same frame rate as the 1D4 and much better IQ than the current 7D.  I like being able to keep the 1.6x reach that I would have sacrificed to 1.3x with a 1D4 or give up with a 1Dx.  If the 7D2 is half the price of a 1Dx or less, I'll buy one in a heartbeat.

Well, at ISO 800, you actually have more "reach" with the 1D4 than the 7D, because IQ is so much superior on the 1D4, you can crop beyond the 7D cropping.

It's not so easy.... you have a camera and a lens... the lens used will affect how much cropping you can get away with and the lighting as well.

A full frame camera will visibly outperform an APS-C camera under poor lighting, but under good lighting the difference is much less apparent.

If you are using a cheap lens, you will not have the resolving power of a quality lens. A while ago I compared an 18-200 against the 100L. My target was the page of a book. The 18-200 at 100 could not resolve words, and at 200 you could guess what the words were. The 100L was able to resolve the words. In other words, a good 100mm lens had longer reach than a poor 200mm lens.

I then compared a 5DII against a 60D, both using the same 400 5.6 lens, and moved the book away until I had problems resolving. In daylight, (i think it was at ISO200 but not sure) the 60D out resolved the 5DII, but as the light dimmed, (i think using ISO1600) the 5DII out resolved the 60D....

There are no easy answers that cover all conditions.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 01, 2013, 06:00:28 PM
hmm looks like the big MP will be an expensive brick then, I wonder how that compares to D800

it may be a stunning camera but twice the price, size and weight of D800 might make it a bit of a tougher sell
so much for the never, ever a 1Dsx too  ;)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 01, 2013, 06:02:12 PM
3 fps for the 70D? That's pretty poor performance...disappointing...

It doesn't say 3fps, the characters after 3 and 10 are different, the second line brags about the main features of each camera and for the 70D it is the flip screen and for the 7D2 it is the fps.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 01, 2013, 06:04:35 PM
then 50% for the EOS-1DSx specs.

That explains the 1DXs name then. Other rumors have suggested much smaller than 1Dx size but larger than 5D size with a slightly expanded bottom to fit a larger battery to help drive more chips.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 01, 2013, 06:12:20 PM

What effects noise at higher ISO  Is it purely processor related or does the pixel size of an APS-C body contribute as well?


processor has nothing to do with that (unless you just care about jpg output straight from the camera but that has nothing to do with what RAW files and actual performance the camera can deliver)

it depends upon sensor size and technology, larger sensors have more surface area over which to collect light (although you may need to stop down the aperture to maintain DOF and give it back though, depending) and more efficient sensors collect more of what light hits and better sensors mix in less noise of various types to the light signal collected and more color-blind filter arrays let in more light and thus mean higher luminance SNR but at the cost of lower chroma SNR and less ability to distinguish certain subtle shades from one another

now that they have gapless microlenses and such you don't lose much by going to smaller photosites, any individual photosite is noisier if it is smaller but all together it's reasonably close to the same, withing reason.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 01, 2013, 06:15:54 PM
The big megapickle camera will not be branded as the 1DSx, for the exact same reason that, lo these many years ago, the compact Mac with a 68030 CPU was branded an SE/30 instead of, in keeping with the IIx and the IIcx, the SEx.

How about 1D Xs?

The "1D excess" might imply that the price has gone overboard or it's all too much to be worth it so not that title either and they said it would never be named anything along those lines anyway.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: RGomezPhotos on January 01, 2013, 06:25:46 PM
You can't show me the new 'big megapixel' camera fast enough!  I hope it's:  1DX + 39MP+ + 16-bit A/D + 6-8fps + WiFi + GPS + Crop Mode.  This would be a camera I would be happy to use for the next 5 years...  Like all the full-time pros I know still using their 10MP cameras....  I don't want to upgrade for a while after my 5D MKII...

You can do it Canon!
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 06:34:13 PM
The big megapickle camera will not be branded as the 1DSx, for the exact same reason that, lo these many years ago, the compact Mac with a 68030 CPU was branded an SE/30 instead of, in keeping with the IIx and the IIcx, the SEx.

How about 1D Xs?

The "1D excess" might imply that the price has gone overboard or it's all too much to be worth it so not that title either and they said it would never be named anything along those lines anyway.

Who's 'they' and when/where did they say that?  Keep in mind, there was a Rebel XS, and Canon has no problem reusing a moniker, e.g., the S100.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: AG on January 01, 2013, 06:40:55 PM
The "1D excess" might imply that the price has gone overboard or it's all too much to be worth it so not that title either and they said it would never be named anything along those lines anyway.

I can hear Kai from DigiRev giving his review now.

But knowing him it will be nicknamed the 1DSeX. :)

Either way we will hopefully know soon enough.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: BrandonKing96 on January 01, 2013, 06:45:03 PM
3 fps for the 70D? That's pretty poor performance...disappointing...

It doesn't say 3fps, the characters after 3 and 10 are different, the second line brags about the main features of each camera and for the 70D it is the flip screen and for the 7D2 it is the fps.
+1
Just for anyone who is confused and wants to know why the last 4 characters in the line talking about the 3.0 inch screen spells out "monitaa" which is "monitor" for us english speakers.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: expatinasia on January 01, 2013, 07:04:05 PM
You can't show me the new 'big megapixel' camera fast enough!  I hope it's:  1DX + 39MP+ + 16-bit A/D + 6-8fps + WiFi + GPS + Crop Mode.  This would be a camera I would be happy to use for the next 5 years...  Like all the full-time pros I know still using their 10MP cameras....  I don't want to upgrade for a while after my 5D MKII...You can do it Canon!

And let's not forget a headphone jack!

I am very curious about the 1DXs/1DSX, though I am guessing it would cost in the US$8,XXX range, but even more curious about the 7D Mark II. 10FPS with new sensor technology (maybe even two of them) and a solid body with good weather sealing, dual card shots (SD or CF - mmm hot one) etc etc at what I am guessing would cost around the US$ 2,800 mark (like a 5D Mark III but for sports etc) would be very tempting indeed.

Canon will have to be very careful not to let the 7D Mark II bite into the 1DX's sales too much. Cos at the moment if you looking to upgrade and cover sports/action etc then you are more likely to be eyeing the 1DX or the 1D Mark IV. If they make the 7D Mark II too good people won't spend the extra, but if they don't make it good enough less people will buy it and those that do want to upgrade sharpish will be left with the 1DX or 1D Mark IV or the more expensive 1DSX/1DXS.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 01, 2013, 07:10:30 PM
Actually, the only people I've seen complain about the name are those that have bought both the 1Ds series cameras.

Yeah, Canon really needs to sort this out. Does the 's' stand for studio, small image circle, short back focus? Maybe it stands for 'stupid enough to buy this expensive camera without knowing what its freakin' name means''...   :P
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: gutenmuach on January 01, 2013, 07:26:38 PM
this talk about the 3fps is useless.. if you guys here dont know how to read / speak japanese then dont assume anything... ;)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Don Haines on January 01, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
this talk about the 3fps is useless.. if you guys here dont know how to read / speak japanese then dont assume anything... ;)

it could be from a mistake made when it was translated from the original klingon...:)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: artsmalley on January 01, 2013, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone read Japanese well enough to know what it is saying about the X6i?

Not very much detail on the X6i. The text gets blurry at least to my declining eye sight. The entire article is basically predictions, with %'s for probability, and some hopes and expectations. In the first paragraph of text it is basically titled "Time for renewal of the APS-C Sensors - A move toward the high end". He basically just goes on to say for X6i it is time to update the sensor. Or at least believes that Canon is pondering that move.

In the bottom right hand corner block there is also some fellow named Ito who realistically believes there could be a full frame compact camera as a replacement / upgrade to the G1X. Again I would take it all with a grain of salt.
Title: What no one else seems to have noticed
Post by: crasher8 on January 01, 2013, 08:01:44 PM
The 1DXs will take EF-S lenses!
Title: Re: What no one else seems to have noticed
Post by: Bob Howland on January 01, 2013, 08:46:59 PM
The 1DXs will take EF-S lenses!

I'm going to assume that you're not joking. Taking EF-S lenses might be a useful feature in a 40MP camera costing $3000 but, for a camera probably costing $8000+, who cares?
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: crasher8 on January 01, 2013, 09:07:33 PM
I'm just reading my best Japanese for the 1DXs in the rumor ad. See for yourself.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: TAF on January 01, 2013, 09:31:24 PM
Can someone who reads Japanese let us know what it says about the EOS-M2, please?

I'm hoping for full frame...

Thanks!

Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Woody on January 01, 2013, 09:34:57 PM
The EOS-M2 catches my eye. If it has fast AF at a reasonable price, I may give it some thought.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: gecko on January 01, 2013, 10:05:01 PM
1DSx ?

That could be a potentially unfortunate designation - if it didn't live up to expectations, it would be rapidly renamed the 1DSux.   :P
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: crasher8 on January 01, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
Nah you're seeing the glass half empty. it reads…."Wantee Sex?"
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: artsmalley on January 01, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Can someone who reads Japanese let us know what it says about the EOS-M2, please?

I'm hoping for full frame...

Thanks!

Again not much detail on the EOS M. He lists his prediction at 80% probability on this one. An EOS M2 "might" include three main improvements.

1) Variable angle LCD
2) Built in EVF
3) Improve speed for AF in live view

The scan job was not very good which makes certain words hard to read...No mention of the sensor.

Edit: See corrections noted below.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: chub on January 01, 2013, 10:28:13 PM
Here is what is written for the EOSM2, as some of the previously reported posts were incorrect. There will be a change to a vari-angle LCD, as well as a higher end model that will be able to take an ACCESSORY EVF (I assume they mean in the shoe), NOT a built in finder (specifically, he uses 外付け (そとづけ)EVF ). Also not reported correctly in previous posts is that an upgrade to the AF speed in live view may have to wait 1 ~ 2 more generations of cameras. His words: ライブビューAFの高速化はもう1〜2世代待つ必要があるかも。
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: verysimplejason on January 01, 2013, 11:03:36 PM
The specs on the D70 does NOT say 3fps. It says "3.0-inch Variable Angle LCD"

+1.  Could be around 5FPS.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: BrandonKing96 on January 01, 2013, 11:26:13 PM
The specs on the D70 does NOT say 3fps. It says "3.0-inch Variable Angle LCD"

+1.  Could be around 5FPS.
I'd lean towards the 5.5-6 fps.  But anything under 5 just doesn't seem right.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Dylan777 on January 01, 2013, 11:57:03 PM
Can someone who reads Japanese let us know what it says about the EOS-M2, please?

I'm hoping for full frame...

Thanks!

+1....I want really want to own a P&S camera size with FF sensor, like the speedy AF Sony RX-1, without fixed lens of course.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: artsmalley on January 02, 2013, 12:44:19 AM
Here is what is written for the EOSM2, as some of the previously reported posts were incorrect. There will be a change to a vari-angle LCD, as well as a higher end model that will be able to take an ACCESSORY EVF (I assume they mean in the shoe), NOT a built in finder (specifically, he uses 外付け (そとづけ)EVF ). Also not reported correctly in previous posts is that an upgrade to the AF speed in live view may have to wait 1 ~ 2 more generations of cameras. His words: ライブビューAFの高速化はもう1〜2世代待つ必要があるかも。


Good catches...how on earth you made out some of those fuzzy characters is beyond me. Time for new reading glasses.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: M.ST on January 02, 2013, 01:30:14 AM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

All big megapixel sensors (prototypes) are in an 1D X style body. 
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Aglet on January 02, 2013, 01:30:42 AM
70D would pretty much have to supply at least 5fps to maintain its prosumer category which the 60D nearly lost due to lost features and downgraded handling.

7d2 can have the same AF as the 7D, it was good enough for most things once you figured it out, worked well in low light and action tracking.  Adding ability to track the subject also using color cues from a more complex metering sensor would be a nice benefit to have to match some of the Nikon bodies.

but they'd better get rid of the banding and pattern noise problems for both new bodies, especially at low ISO. It's become a pathetic weakness already when competitors' cameras costing under $400, like the ultra tiny Pentax Q or D5100, can supply raw images without banding problems.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Ricku on January 02, 2013, 05:36:29 AM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

All big megapixel sensors (prototypes) are in an 1D X style body.

Because landscapers and architectural photogs love dragging big and heavy cameras? No, I find that hard to believe. But if that is the case then it is a stupid move by Canon, and the D800 looks even more appealing.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: keithcooper on January 02, 2013, 05:59:48 AM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

All big megapixel sensors (prototypes) are in an 1D X style body.

Because landscapers and architectural photogs love dragging big and heavy cameras? No, I find that hard to believe. But if that is the case then it is a stupid move by Canon, and the D800 looks even more appealing.
Nope, as someone who does the above for a living, I -do- want a hefty 1 series body. I'd much rather see a genuine 1Ds3 replacement than something in a small body... The 1D X didn't amount to a significant enough upgrade for the work I do (important caveat, given it's a very good camera for many)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Nishi Drew on January 02, 2013, 09:59:47 AM
70D would pretty much have to supply at least 5fps to maintain its prosumer category which the 60D nearly lost due to lost features and downgraded handling.

7d2 can have the same AF as the 7D, it was good enough for most things once you figured it out, worked well in low light and action tracking.  Adding ability to track the subject also using color cues from a more complex metering sensor would be a nice benefit to have to match some of the Nikon bodies.

but they'd better get rid of the banding and pattern noise problems for both new bodies, especially at low ISO. It's become a pathetic weakness already when competitors' cameras costing under $400, like the ultra tiny Pentax Q or D5100, can supply raw images without banding problems.

Same AF yeah, but what if they went with the trend and added the same AF as the 1DX/5D3 ?? Now, I don't know how that would affect 1DX sales, but if it would then the 5D3 would be killing off the 1DX more, people will get a 1D because they need specifically that, and a 7DII like that would be killer~
But anyways, the 60D was a failure and only survived with by slashing down the price immensely, and it's flip screen was nice... that's about it, no AFMA, not a significant AF or FPS or Sensor that makes it any more than a rebel.
Will the 70D change that? I sure think, and hope it will, because the 7DII will likely cost around 2,000 and the 70D will be the in between model at say 1,200? But rebels are quiet expensive on release.... *sigh*
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 02, 2013, 10:23:51 AM
I would love to see a true 1Ds Mark III replacement.  The 1D X was not it.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: K-amps on January 02, 2013, 01:07:23 PM
I hope the 7dii and 70D get new sensor tech with the newer 180nm process I was hoping they would have used with the 5diii...   with better ISO, DR and banding performance than the 7dii/70D.

The 19 pt AF is fine for the 7Dii as long as the center is -3EV or -4EV sensitive.

On a separate note: I was wondering... Did Canon not make real updates to their 18mp APS-C sensors to protect the sales of the 7d?
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Don Haines on January 02, 2013, 01:27:36 PM
On a separate note: I was wondering... Did Canon not make real updates to their 18mp APS-C sensors to protect the sales of the 7d?

I don't think so... Some camera has to be first, unless they want to hold out and update every camera at the same time, and that would be a marketing and financial nightmare... and being as the big bucks (volume wise) are with the lower end cameras, it might even make more sense to see the new technology first in a Rebel or EOS-M body
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: neech7 on January 02, 2013, 01:37:12 PM
3 fps for the 70D? That's pretty poor performance...disappointing...

Why did you guess 3fps, and not 3 gigapixel sensor? If you can't read the language in question, don't comment.

Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: that1guyy on January 02, 2013, 03:54:49 PM
3 fps for the 70D? That's pretty poor performance...disappointing...

Why did you guess 3fps, and not 3 gigapixel sensor? If you can't read the language in question, don't comment.



He guessed that because initially the admin posted the specs as 3fps for the 70d. If you weren't here for that then don't comment.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: jrista on January 02, 2013, 10:11:07 PM
now that they have gapless microlenses and such you don't lose much by going to smaller photosites, any individual photosite is noisier if it is smaller but all together it's reasonably close to the same, withing reason.

Not quite. You still lose FWC when moving to a smaller pixel. Since both large pixel and small pixel sensors all use gapless microlenses these days, use of microlenses on sensors with smaller pixels really doesn't level the playing field like it did when it was first introduced. Microlenses improve Q.E. by increasing the number of photons that actually make it all the way to the photodiode, but photodiode capacity is entirely dependent on area...and in that respect, all else being equal (which is pretty much the case these days), larger pixels are still better.

There are other technologies that can still improve Q.E. on sensors with smaller pixels. Lightpipe tech for FSI sensors, BSI sensors, weaker CFA's, etc. are all techniques used on higher density sensors that can still help level the playing field. Even with those technologies, FWC of higher density sensors is usually less than 40k electrons/pixel, where as FWC with lower density sensors gets as high as 100k electrons/pixel. Granted, you can always downsample a higher resolution image and reduce noise, but generally you buy a high resolution camera for a reason, and the final output is usually upscaled, not downscaled.

In the end, once 180nm technology normalizes across the board for brands and sensor sizes/densities, I think the choices will boil down to two key things: resolution at the cost of noise or IQ at the cost of resolution. Personally, I'm fine with those choices...you can always own two cameras for different purposes. ;)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: BrandonKing96 on January 03, 2013, 05:22:36 AM
3 fps for the 70D? That's pretty poor performance...disappointing...

Why did you guess 3fps, and not 3 gigapixel sensor? If you can't read the language in question, don't comment.



He guessed that because initially the admin posted the specs as 3fps for the 70d. If you weren't here for that then don't comment.
I translated what it said before I even read the comments.  It even says in the post "3.0" variable-angle LCD screen" or something along those lines.
"モイター"="monitaa"-"monitor".  The characters were distinct (just clearing up for the others who haven't seen the past comments).
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Ivar on January 03, 2013, 06:51:20 AM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

Nice words. In recent years of development, Canon has been more about rumors, paper launches & products barely matching the price tag for the features offered.

Do not get me wrong - I sincerely hope they finally get back the title for innovation, however there is not much hard evidence this far for supporting the idea. I hope I'm wrong.


Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Aglet on January 03, 2013, 12:43:45 PM
.. Microlenses improve Q.E. by increasing the number of photons that actually make it all the way to the photodiode, but photodiode capacity is entirely dependent on area...and in that respect, all else being equal (which is pretty much the case these days), larger pixels are still better.

I still wonder about another technology that could add some improvement to the overall QE and that's an old tech called "black silicon" from a few years back.
basically, I think it was a nano-structured surface that reduced reflectivity of the sensor (not sure if it can also work on the microlenses and AA filters) so that more photons got into the Si to do their work generating image electrons.

Even if such a surface treatment did not appreciably improve the QE, it'd still be nice to reduce the overall reflectance of the sensor+AA array which could help with overall contrast, flare and ghosting to some extent.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 03, 2013, 02:38:03 PM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

All big megapixel sensors (prototypes) are in an 1D X style body.

Can you comment on difference in sensors among 1Ds3, 5D3, and 1DX?  Thanks for your knowledge.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 03, 2013, 02:53:21 PM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

All big megapixel sensors (prototypes) are in an 1D X style body.

Can you comment on difference in sensors among 1Ds3, 5D3, and 1DX?  Thanks for your knowledge.

M.S.T has never backed up one single thing they have said and they have claimed some pretty NDA covered type stuff. But when you can't even post an image from an NDA free, fully released lens you claim to own, or even an image of the lens, then I think that is a good measure of their real knowledge.

Oh, I see.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 03, 2013, 05:54:50 PM
I predict 7D2:
5D3 AF, 10fps,24MP
Exmor level low ISO DR
1/2 stop better high ISO than 7D2 (1 stop for DR)
$2300

EOS CS:
39 MP - 4k video/utterly superb 2k video filtered down
6.1fps
5D3 AF and slightly improved 5D3 metering (maybe 1DX AF and metering if they use a big brick size, hope not)
Exmor level low ISO DR
1DX/D4 level high ISO SNR/DR
hope, hope body only slightly larger than 5D-size
$4500

70D:
7D AF and metering, 5-6.5fps, 24MP
Exmor level low ISO DR
1/2 stop better high ISO than 7D (1 stop for DR)
$1300

if they have the much better sensors and full speed (digic 6) it may be end of 2013 for in stores and not this spring,if it hits this spring I think the specs might be way worse than i suggest, i hope they go for the held off instead of rush possibility options
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 03, 2013, 05:56:09 PM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

All big megapixel sensors (prototypes) are in an 1D X style body.

Because landscapers and architectural photogs love dragging big and heavy cameras? No, I find that hard to believe. But if that is the case then it is a stupid move by Canon, and the D800 looks even more appealing.
Nope, as someone who does the above for a living, I -do- want a hefty 1 series body. I'd much rather see a genuine 1Ds3 replacement than something in a small body... The 1D X didn't amount to a significant enough upgrade for the work I do (important caveat, given it's a very good camera for many)

You are definitely in the minority of landscape photogs then.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 03, 2013, 06:02:25 PM
now that they have gapless microlenses and such you don't lose much by going to smaller photosites, any individual photosite is noisier if it is smaller but all together it's reasonably close to the same, withing reason.

Not quite. You still lose FWC when moving to a smaller pixel. Since both large pixel and small pixel sensors all use gapless microlenses these days, use of microlenses on sensors with smaller pixels really doesn't level the playing field like it did when it was first introduced. Microlenses improve Q.E. by increasing the number of photons that actually make it all the way to the photodiode, but photodiode capacity is entirely dependent on area...and in that respect, all else being equal (which is pretty much the case these days), larger pixels are still better.

There are other technologies that can still improve Q.E. on sensors with smaller pixels. Lightpipe tech for FSI sensors, BSI sensors, weaker CFA's, etc. are all techniques used on higher density sensors that can still help level the playing field. Even with those technologies, FWC of higher density sensors is usually less than 40k electrons/pixel, where as FWC with lower density sensors gets as high as 100k electrons/pixel. Granted, you can always downsample a higher resolution image and reduce noise, but generally you buy a high resolution camera for a reason, and the final output is usually upscaled, not downscaled.

In the end, once 180nm technology normalizes across the board for brands and sensor sizes/densities, I think the choices will boil down to two key things: resolution at the cost of noise or IQ at the cost of resolution. Personally, I'm fine with those choices...you can always own two cameras for different purposes. ;)

As I said each individual photosite does worse but taken together....

And I also said "do reasonably close to" as well as "within reasonable differences between photosite sizes" not "exactly the same" for "any possible difference in relative photosite scale".

With the current tech, a 40MP cam, overall, not 100% view comparing each photosite, doesn't have more than a a very modest bit worse high iso performance than using same tech on a 12MP it would seem and might even do a trace better for low iso dr. You gain so much more from the extra detail/reach compared to the likely insignificant loss in high iso.

The whole point is that you don't need two different cams for two different purposes. You can just own the high MP cam and when you care more about detail then print super large, view 100%, etc. and when you do care about noise then just print or view it at the same scale that you'd have to do with the lower MP cam. You very nearly get best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: nolken on January 03, 2013, 06:30:57 PM
any rumors on when? I'm planning on purchasing another DSLR here soon. I'm willing to wait for the 7d's price to drop upon announcement of the 7d mk ii, but only if it'll be February or sooner.
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: RGomezPhotos on January 03, 2013, 08:02:46 PM
There will be a real (big megapixel) replacement for the 1Ds Mark III with an outstanding image quality.

All big megapixel sensors (prototypes) are in an 1D X style body.

Can you comment on difference in sensors among 1Ds3, 5D3, and 1DX?  Thanks for your knowledge.

M.S.T has never backed up one single thing they have said and they have claimed some pretty NDA covered type stuff. But when you can't even post an image from an NDA free, fully released lens you claim to own, or even an image of the lens, then I think that is a good measure of their real knowledge.

LOL!!!  I thought the same thing :-D
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Aglet on January 04, 2013, 01:08:02 AM
all of you who are interested in small/big pixels. noise etc.
read this papers by Emil  http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/noise-p3.html (http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/noise-p3.html)
Thanks for the link, MR.
I'll read that and see what else I might learn from it.

I haven't examined pattern noise in detail from too many cameras other than to notice that some banding is fixed (sensor system hardware) and some is inconsistent but repetitive (electronic subsystem interference, e.g. from noisy power supplies)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: stefsan on January 04, 2013, 04:33:03 AM

but they'd better get rid of the banding and pattern noise problems for both new bodies, especially at low ISO. It's become a pathetic weakness already when competitors' cameras costing under $400, like the ultra tiny Pentax Q or D5100, can supply raw images without banding problems.

+ 1

The banding noise in many pictures from my 7D (even the region of ISO 400) is one of the most important reasons for me wanting to upgrade to the 5DIII
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: M.ST on January 04, 2013, 06:27:08 AM
RE to: privatebydesign

Believe it or don´t believe it.

I am not willing to post any pictures in the net.

In the future I don´t post the hints in the forum and send the hints only to the admin.

Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Capnbooboo on January 04, 2013, 09:10:41 AM
I love my 60D.  And the 70D as listed isn't an adequate upgrade... I really don't want to pay for a 5d mkiii, but it looks like that is what my upgrade path will be.

That seems to fit with Canon's strategy.  The 60D was an upgrade path for Rebel/xxxD owners, and for 50D owners, the 60D wasn't an upgrade - the 7D was a better choice.  These specs are consistent with the same: xxxD -> 70Dor 6D, 60D -> 7DII or 5DIII.
i did exactly what you just said, i got the mkiii; NO REGRETS
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: ddashti on January 06, 2013, 12:51:41 AM
7D Mark II any day now. Everyone's waiting!
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: crasher8 on January 06, 2013, 03:18:49 PM
I PREDICT:

Canon Pong
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 06, 2013, 03:30:28 PM
I PREDICT:

Canon Pong

+1
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Don Haines on January 06, 2013, 06:50:55 PM
I predict:
15 frames per second
ISO 204,800
40Mpixels
4K video at 120 hz
wireless connectivity
improved focusing

and all in the next 10 years :)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: BrandonKing96 on January 08, 2013, 03:59:07 AM
I predict:
15 frames per second
ISO 204,800
40Mpixels
4K video at 120 hz
wireless connectivity
improved focusing

and all in the next 10 years :)
109 AF points? ;)
Title: Re: Canon DSLR Body Rumors for 2013
Post by: Hobby Shooter on January 08, 2013, 04:58:50 AM
RE to: privatebydesign

Believe it or don´t believe it.
I don't believe you. I do believe that you have stated the obvious, basically what these companies always do. I don't believe you have any advanced insider information.

I am not willing to post any pictures in the net.
I understand and respect that, I generally only post test shots, but a low res casual image of the 1200 f5.6 you claim to own would not have been a difficult or compromising image to post, your failure to post simple images of non compromising things you claim to own, naturally, has an affect on your credibility. ( http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11481.msg205783#msg205783 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11481.msg205783#msg205783) )

In the future I don´t post the hints in the forum and send the hints only to the admin.
Fine by me, I just hope they get CR0 ratings if they choose to post them at all.
Private, Im with you on this one. Claims is one thing evidence is something else.