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Image & Video Galleries => Camera Body Gallery => 6D Sample Images => Topic started by: wellfedCanuck on January 04, 2013, 11:26:08 AM

Title: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on January 04, 2013, 11:26:08 AM
Somewhere over North Carolina, aircraft closure rate about 900kts (1000 mph), 6D with kit 24-105L:
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/wellfedcanuck/8345543827/)
http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF (http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF)

(hmm... can't get the image to post. Sorry, link is valid.)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Malte_P on January 31, 2013, 01:41:43 PM
Somewhere over North Carolina, aircraft closure rate about 900kts (1000 mph), 6D with kit 24-105L:
(http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF)
http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF (http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF)

(hmm... can't get the image to post. Sorry, link is valid.)

i don´t want to be an ass.... but one photo does not prove that the 6D AF is worth much.

even with the worst AF system you will get good images.... sometimes.
that does not mean the 6D AF is complete crap.

but the percentage of keepers is more interesting then a single image.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on January 31, 2013, 02:20:04 PM
It wasn't meant to be a scientific analysis, just a sucessful first attempt at a shot my previous camera could never have captured. Colour me pleasantly surprised, is all.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Chosenbydestiny on January 31, 2013, 09:57:50 PM
Somewhere over North Carolina, aircraft closure rate about 900kts (1000 mph), 6D with kit 24-105L:
(http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF)
http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF (http://flic.kr/p/dHt6qF)

(hmm... can't get the image to post. Sorry, link is valid.)

i don´t want to be an ass.... but one photo does not prove that the 6D AF is worth much.

even with the worst AF system you will get good images.... sometimes.
that does not mean the 6D AF is complete crap.

but the percentage of keepers is more interesting then a single image.

+1 definitely more keepers on more expensive full frame cameras in the Canon lineup, how it should be. Although the 6D is easily underestimated because of that.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: RLPhoto on January 31, 2013, 10:06:09 PM
How about subjects moving towards the camera, off-center, shooting sub f/2.8 and that will make the 5d2/6D sweat.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: J.R. on January 31, 2013, 11:03:16 PM
How about subjects moving towards the camera, off-center, shooting sub f/2.8 and that will make the 5d2/6D sweat.

+1 ... Try shooting a two year old kid running about ... The shots in focus will be great, but they'll be a minor percentage of the total shots made.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: pdirestajr on January 31, 2013, 11:26:10 PM
Wait, isn't that plane beyond infinity focus? I'm guessing you could get that in focus with a manual lens without looking through the viewfinder too!
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: TexPhoto on January 31, 2013, 11:37:41 PM
Um cool photo, love it. 

But 900 knots is way past the speed of sound, and that airplane is not closing on you, it's flying past you.

Hey, I took some awesome sports photos with my 5DII, nothing wrong with a 6D.  shoot you butt off with it.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: 3kramd5 on January 31, 2013, 11:43:01 PM


But 900 knots is way past the speed of sound, and that airplane is not closing on you, it's flying past you.



I suspect the photo was taken from an airplane going the other direction...
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: sanj on January 31, 2013, 11:50:22 PM
Wait, isn't that plane beyond infinity focus? I'm guessing you could get that in focus with a manual lens without looking through the viewfinder too!

+1
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Renegade Runner on February 01, 2013, 12:08:39 AM
I have had very few issues with the AF on my 6D.  When photographing Swans, geese, ducks or other large birds flying past me, the AF picks them up with ease.  The issue is when they are flying towards me at a high rate of speed.  I do get some blurred shots.  That's pretty much what I expected.  Not a big deal for me.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Wilmark on February 01, 2013, 12:28:27 AM
What part of that image is in focus? The plane looks soft...
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Renegade Runner on February 01, 2013, 12:47:06 AM
Is the photo cropped?

Also I would suspect the plane was very high in the air.  The picture may be cropped which may give it its appearance or the plane is very high in the air which may also make it look soft.

A plane at a very high altitude may appear to move slowly across the sky even if it is moving at a high speed.  In this case it would be easy to track it across the sky and take a decent shot.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 01, 2013, 03:00:21 AM
Hello.  Sorry for the long-ish post with some digression into lenses, this is my usual thought process.  Also my first post on CR.  My professional photographic work so far, has been mostly aerial photography (although one of my landscape night shots done from the ground, has been published in Outdoor Photographer magazine...and via a lowly crop body!)

I can sympathize that the OP might have a problem with gear snobs who feel the need to slam the 6D.  But let's not be too quick to judge something we haven't tried ourselves, ok?

Was the OP's picture a true test of AF speed or accuracy?  Mostly, no (depending on where the lens was focused just prior to the shot).  It was more a test of having adequate shutter speed.  But I'll dig deeper now.

As for razor sharpness at infinity focus..."always" being easy to achieve via phase AF, I disagree.  It depends on the lens and body combo (never heard that before, have you?  joking!).  I've found there are certain lenses that are difficult to get sharp AF at infinity, even if they are focusing accurately at a closer range such as 20 to 300 feet.  As for manually focusing at infinity...that just doesn't work...because the elements always creep, even over a period of seconds.  In the old days, lens focus rings stopped at infinity...for some reason, they don't anymore.  But then, that was film, and "sharpness" was always hit or miss.

I personally find myself mostly using the non-IS 70-200 f/4L, for my aerial work, with center AF point selected.  It is extremely accurate at "infinity" focus...and sometimes I almost think it distinguishes between a distance of 1/3 of a mile, and 2/3...even in the middle of its zoom range.

Having looked at the OP's picture, and his description, several things should be obvious (some of the above responses have missed these).  Yes indeed, he was in another airplane at similar altitude, shooting through the window glass (you can't open windows in a jet) passing the other plane going the opposite direction (hence the "closure"...haven't any of you watched "top gun"?  Haha...they also had 900 knots closure, as I recall...and neither side was exceeding the sound barrier at that time, nor would they need to...it's all simple math.  The sound barrier is actually slower at altitude...but I digress.)

The second thing that is obvious to me, is that yes, given the size of the airplane in the shot, indeed there is cropping going on.  He was using a lens that only went up to 105mm on a full frame camera...not a 300mm lens on a crop camera...

As for softness due to atmospheric conditions...not so much.  The sky is clear, the air is very thin, the distance is relatively close.  Atmospheric blurring looks to be near zero here.  The only blur that would obscure the shot, would be the glass layer of the window.  It's also possible he chose not to optimize sharpening in post.  It kind of looks that way, and it's ok if he wanted to leave it as shot. 

As for the 6D's ability to AF on close subjects moving at speed toward, away from, or some combination...relative to the camera...I have no real idea until I try one myself.  Obviously it won't match the 5D3, just as the 5D3 doesn't match the 1Dx.  One thing I do know, is that the 6D is worth trying.  Whether it is worth buying for me personally, will depend on how well I can get it to AF in low light with my lenses, and maybe if I don't like the silly little touch pad.  Also a big factor, is the price used 6D bodies will be selling for over the next several months.  It seems to me that so far, the 5D3 isn't depreciating very much on the used market, and it's been out nearly a year.  The larger price drop has been on new 5D3 bodies, rather than on used ones.  If there are several 6D's on the used market this summer, selling for around $1150 US, then in my opinion, the 5D3 new at around $2.6k to $2.8k, is by far the better buy.  You're losing less money (or at least a far lower percentage) when you sell, and getting a much better camera as well.  Now, for the original $3400 on a new 5D3?  To me, no...it just was not worth that price at all.  Certainly if it had been 7 or 8 fps and 26 MP with similar noise specs and even better overall speed...then $3400 would have been a bargain...but not as is.   
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: J.R. on February 01, 2013, 07:36:16 AM

I can sympathize that the OP might have a problem with gear snobs who feel the need to slam the 6D.  But let's not be too quick to judge something we haven't tried ourselves, ok?

Was the OP's picture a true test of AF speed or accuracy?  Mostly, no (depending on where the lens was focused just prior to the shot).  It was more a test of having adequate shutter speed.  But I'll dig deeper now.


The problem is that most people here aren't really slamming the 6D, its true. There does arise (for me at least) AF difficulty using only the centre point for any subject that moves. the AF is as tricky as it was with the 5D2. Sure it's a tad faster but there you are ...
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 01, 2013, 09:30:58 AM
Wow, weeks of silence, then suddenly so much criticism... Thanks CarlTN for helping out.

To repeat- the original post was not intended as a scientific/pro analysis of the 6D AF. Just me- a hobbyist- pleasantly surprised that the camera could easily achieve something that my previous camera- a Rebel- could not. (Almost never, in fact.) Believe me, guys- these air-to-air shots are not so straight forward. So far the 6D has nailed it every time I've tried to take one of these shots.

Yes, the closure rate was about 900kts. You have to add the groundspeeds which include the headwind/tailwind components, not just the true airspeed. I was there, I saw the numbers for myself- I was in the flightdeck of another airplane going in the opposite direction one thousand feet below the aircraft in the photo. The two aircraft tracks were almost reciprocal- the divergent headings are mostly a result of the very strong jetstream that existed at the time the photo was taken.

The shot is cropped but is otherwise SOOC- no post.

Sheesh. Any more hairs you fellows wish to split?   ::)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on February 01, 2013, 09:53:49 AM

As for the 6D's ability to AF on close subjects moving at speed toward, away from, or some combination...relative to the camera...I have no real idea until I try one myself.  Obviously it won't match the 5D3, just as the 5D3 doesn't match the 1Dx.  One thing I do know, is that the 6D is worth trying.  Whether it is worth buying for me personally, will depend on how well I can get it to AF in low light with my lenses, and maybe if I don't like the silly little touch pad.  Also a big factor, is the price used 6D bodies will be selling for over the next several months.  It seems to me that so far, the 5D3 isn't depreciating very much on the used market, and it's been out nearly a year.  The larger price drop has been on new 5D3 bodies, rather than on used ones.  If there are several 6D's on the used market this summer, selling for around $1150 US, then in my opinion, the 5D3 new at around $2.6k to $2.8k, is by far the better buy.  You're losing less money (or at least a far lower percentage) when you sell, and getting a much better camera as well.  Now, for the original $3400 on a new 5D3?  To me, no...it just was not worth that price at all.  Certainly if it had been 7 or 8 fps and 26 MP with similar noise specs and even better overall speed...then $3400 would have been a bargain...but not as is.

This is an excellent point - and one that I have not seen previously raised before.  I love my new 6D, and am not so concerned about resale value at the moment, but your point is very valid.  I am somewhat disappointed that my 60D has seen a bigger drop in value than what my Rebel T1i did a few years ago (I have a buyer for my 60D right now).  I certainly hope that the 6D doesn't follow that path. 

I bought my 5DII used (as in 500 actuations used) and could sell it now without a huge hit in value after using it for a year (not that I am planning to do so).  That being said, it seems that the 5dII is the camera that is dropping in value right now, and I don't see a ton of people that are choosing a 5D2 and it's much older tech over the 6D.  I would personally gladly exchange my 5DII body for a second 6D in terms of use and function.  I don't really know what that means for resale value, as the 60D has been a big seller for Canon and is still getting heavily discounted right now.

Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on February 01, 2013, 09:55:43 AM
I guess the biggest issue is whether or not Canon can sell the 6D at the roughly 2K mark.  If it continues to sell somewhere close to its current pricetag for a few years, I can see it holding value.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: J.R. on February 01, 2013, 01:49:20 PM

Sheesh. Any more hairs you fellows wish to split?   ::)

Not really. I'm a hobbyist too but you have to call a spade a spade and my ONLY grumble is with the AF.

I LOVE my 6D for what it CAN DO! but if you talk about AF ... I can't resist a rant!
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: JerryKnight on February 01, 2013, 02:33:19 PM
My sincerest apologies, wellfedCanuck, but this was all I could think about:

My favorite scene from the movie Top Gun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LzZ1ORjSjk#)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 01, 2013, 03:17:10 PM
Thanks Dustin.  The cost of buying and owning things always weighs on my mind.

Jerry, aren't you glad I mentioned the movie?  Haha.  Does anyone know how many AF points the Kodak camera had?  :P

As for the 60D losing its value...well, I personally never liked the 60D.  It lacks important features of the camera it replaced, and has too many features of the Rebel class...so it's not difficult to see why it's losing more value on the used market.  Hopefully the 70D will address these issues, but I doubt it.  Marketing attitudes have changed at Canon, along with the lower cost to build FF sensors and bodies...as has been discussed many times. 

I hope to rent a 6D, and another supertelephoto lens over the next couple of months.  Can't decide between the new Sigma 120-300 (if it comes out at all), and the older 400 f/2.8L.  Prices to rent it have fallen dramatically, with the release of the new lens. 

I rented the 1D Mark IV last fall, and it was great.  But it actually couldn't AF in low light as well as my older XXD body (center point only, outdoors, 20 minutes after sunset, clear sky, same fast telephoto lens)...so that one aspect of its negative criticism, seems to be true.  However, I found the noise floor to be very usable up to ISO 8000, with correction in post.  The apparent dynamic range and color spectrum, also seemed excellent up to ISO 5000.  So those aspects of the widely held consensus of opinions I have read about, seem very wrong.  I realize many on here aren't fans of DXOMark's tests, and I can see why.  Something doesn't add up there.  I think they currently claim the dynamic range at ISO 100 is only like 9 EV???  That's just false. 

I found the AF grouping difficult to customize and use, but I really only spent a couple of hours with that.  The 1DX's AF obviously looks better, no doubt about that (and better than Nikon's)...but then everyone knows that I guess.  I do think it was a mistake to abandon the 1.3x crop sensor, though. 

What would be nice, is if Canon made a new crop sensor that is, let's say 1.47x...where it might still work in all crop lenses without vignetting...but allow more surface area for the sensor, than their current 1.6x, or the competition's 1.5x.  If the rear of the lenses has to be changed where there's a "Canon 1.6x version", and a "Canon 1.47x version", I don't see the cost of that being very much.

That is what the 7D2 should be...a 1.47x crop sensor, at 23 to 26 MP.  There, I have spoken, now Canon, make it so!
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: 7enderbender on February 01, 2013, 03:35:48 PM
Wait, isn't that plane beyond infinity focus? I'm guessing you could get that in focus with a manual lens without looking through the viewfinder too!

That's what I thought. I'm sure the 6D has nice AF functionality, probably better than that f my 5DII. But who is really criticizing that? There are a bunch of other reasons why I wouldn't want one. AF is maybe a bit overrated in this day and age. I never really wanted it and stayed with the manual FD system over the EOS system. I only switched after digital couldn't be avoided any longer. Yes, for some things AF is good to have. For a lot of other stuff I actually miss the solid feel of manual focus lenses and the big bright viewfinders of yesteryears.

Making pictures of planes can be done fairly easily with my 500mm manual focus FD lens...
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 01, 2013, 03:41:01 PM
There is so much hair splitting here.  I don't get it, the shot is absolutely not in focus.  It looks like its not to blame on the camera, but the aircraft window it was shot out of.  I have shot gazillions of pictures out of aircraft windows, that's usually what you get when you hold the camera at an angle to the aircraft window and near the edge of it.  I'm not sure why the original poster tried to prove camera auto focus accuracy with it (don't care what camera it was taken with), or why others are arguing for or against.  This picture proves nothing regarding camera auto focus...

(Neat shot though!)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: JerryKnight on February 01, 2013, 04:12:17 PM
Jerry, aren't you glad I mentioned the movie?  Haha.  Does anyone know how many AF points the Kodak camera had?  :P

Sorry, Carl, I didn't read your first post deep enough to catch the reference.

I think those types of cameras had fixed hyperfocal lenses.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 01, 2013, 04:56:53 PM
No problem Jerry, I notice there's a lot of attention on the first couple of lines, and not much else.  I guess nobody has time to really read anything anymore, in this age of smartphones and twitter, haha...yet they're still ready to weigh in.

Ok, I'll try to be more brief and more glib, and try to spout brief shallow points more often, so I will fit into this crowd a bit better.

I disagree that it "proves nothing about the camera's AF ability", or that the picture is "absolutely not in focus".  To restate my previous points:  It's a crop.  It's through glass.  It is ALSO in focus.  It wasn't optimized for sharpness post capture.  It's not splitting hairs, any more than this entire forum splits hairs, which it does daily.

There's no such thing as "beyond infinity focus", other than the lens going past it relative to the body it's on.  The distance to the plane is probably 3/4 of a mile, which is closer than "infinity focus"...but the 24-105 likely won't make that distinction on a full frame camera.  A 70-200 certainly does, on a crop camera.  It works better with the window open, so maybe next time he'll open the front windshield of the airliner at 450 knots.  ::)   
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: zim on February 01, 2013, 05:33:26 PM
There is so much hair splitting here.  I don't get it, the shot is absolutely not in focus.  It looks like its not to blame on the camera, but the aircraft window it was shot out of.  I have shot gazillions of pictures out of aircraft windows, that's usually what you get when you hold the camera at an angle to the aircraft window and near the edge of it.  I'm not sure why the original poster tried to prove camera auto focus accuracy with it (don't care what camera it was taken with), or why others are arguing for or against.  This picture proves nothing regarding camera auto focus...

(Neat shot though!)


oh boy that is so +1
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 01, 2013, 05:38:26 PM

Making pictures of planes can be done fairly easily with my 500mm manual focus FD lens...
You've tried this in a small flightdeck going 440 kts while trying to focus on another airplane going the opposite direction at roughly the same speed?  ::)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 01, 2013, 05:49:36 PM
My sincerest apologies, wellfedCanuck, but this was all I could think about:

Thanks, we had just a little more separation than that.  ;)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 02, 2013, 01:11:24 PM
No problem Jerry, I notice there's a lot of attention on the first couple of lines, and not much else.  I guess nobody has time to really read anything anymore, in this age of smartphones and twitter, haha...yet they're still ready to weigh in.

Ok, I'll try to be more brief and more glib, and try to spout brief shallow points more often, so I will fit into this crowd a bit better.

I disagree that it "proves nothing about the camera's AF ability", or that the picture is "absolutely not in focus".  To restate my previous points:  It's a crop.  It's through glass.  It is ALSO in focus.  It wasn't optimized for sharpness post capture.  It's not splitting hairs, any more than this entire forum splits hairs, which it does daily.

There's no such thing as "beyond infinity focus", other than the lens going past it relative to the body it's on.  The distance to the plane is probably 3/4 of a mile, which is closer than "infinity focus"...but the 24-105 likely won't make that distinction on a full frame camera.  A 70-200 certainly does, on a crop camera.  It works better with the window open, so maybe next time he'll open the front windshield of the airliner at 450 knots.  ::)

Belittling us doesn't help your cause.  You can't prove that the plane is in focus because it's blurred by the aircraft window you shot through.  Why even go further than that?
If you wanted to prove how well a specific camera's auto-focus works, it would help to present a tack sharp photo of a fast moving object, we could then discuss that and might even read your other comments for which we have so little time on our mobile devices.  But seeing you started the thread with a somewhat blurred, cropped etc... shot, it's just pointless.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 02, 2013, 09:27:39 PM
No problem Jerry, I notice there's a lot of attention on the first couple of lines, and not much else.  I guess nobody has time to really read anything anymore, in this age of smartphones and twitter, haha...yet they're still ready to weigh in.

Ok, I'll try to be more brief and more glib, and try to spout brief shallow points more often, so I will fit into this crowd a bit better.

I disagree that it "proves nothing about the camera's AF ability", or that the picture is "absolutely not in focus".  To restate my previous points:  It's a crop.  It's through glass.  It is ALSO in focus.  It wasn't optimized for sharpness post capture.  It's not splitting hairs, any more than this entire forum splits hairs, which it does daily.

There's no such thing as "beyond infinity focus", other than the lens going past it relative to the body it's on.  The distance to the plane is probably 3/4 of a mile, which is closer than "infinity focus"...but the 24-105 likely won't make that distinction on a full frame camera.  A 70-200 certainly does, on a crop camera.  It works better with the window open, so maybe next time he'll open the front windshield of the airliner at 450 knots.  ::)

Belittling us doesn't help your cause.  You can't prove that the plane is in focus because it's blurred by the aircraft window you shot through.  Why even go further than that?
If you wanted to prove how well a specific camera's auto-focus works, it would help to present a tack sharp photo of a fast moving object, we could then discuss that and might even read your other comments for which we have so little time on our mobile devices.  But seeing you started the thread with a somewhat blurred, cropped etc... shot, it's just pointless.

Not belittling anyone, just trying to write in a way that is understood by those who apparently don't want to read anything in detail.  I did not start the thread.  The few shots I have done, "air to air", were even less sharp than this one (of course the planes were smaller, the altitude lower, the distance much greater, the degree of crop also much greater.)  I challenge anyone to attempt to reproduce this shot with the same equipment, and the same amount of cropping, and see how "tack sharp" it is.  Btw, are you an expert at applying sharpening in post?  I don't know if I am, but I've edited a few thousand images so far.  I know I could do something with this shot...so I'll try it later (on a laptop now...alas, my smartphone is being retrofitted with a 200-500mm f/2.8 today).  If you feel the thread to be pointless, I suggest you don't read it or comment in it.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 07, 2013, 12:38:33 PM
Sorry, lost track of who was who in this thread.

I fly for a living, so I get a fair amount of air to air shot opportunities too.  No, not a master of sharpening, but I'm as good as most of us who have worked with digital photography since the digital days started.

I just don't get why we keep discussing this.  It's impossible to tell if the picture is tack sharp, due to the window distortion.  Sure, as a screensaver this might look great if the plane is small and in the corner of the shot.  But again, cropped in, it's pointless to use it as a example of how well a camera focuses.

And yeah, I think I could reproduce a shot like that, even with my 5DII.  It's a matter of knowing your equipment.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 07, 2013, 03:34:47 PM
I just don't get why we keep discussing this. 

I'm the OP, and frankly, I'm sorry I posted the shot. It seems that CarlTN has a point about people not completely reading messages or conversely reading too much into a post. Once again- it was just me- an untalented, unsophisticated, amateur photographer celebrating the fact that the camera could do something I wasn't expecting it to be able to do based upon my previous experience with another Canon DSLR.

Holy Cow. Let it go.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 04:04:09 PM
I'd like to see some of your air to air shots.  Here is a heavily cropped Pilatus from my 50D and 70-200 f/4 (non IS), through C 172 side window glass (I open it for my paying work).  The glass has a terrible green tint that I tried to "correct" but there's very little that can be done.

And let's not judge me too harshly here, this is an example of my least sharp, least pretty work.  It's just a SNAPSHOT.  After all, one of my (ground) landscapes was published in Outdoor Photographer, March 2012.  (I hate to beat that with a dead horse, but so far it's my only claim to fame...I need that in order to go on with my life, ok?...hahaha.  I would give the link to it, but then it would be nitpicked to death.  Anyone could probably find it if they looked hard enough.  Not that it's worth all that much effort.)

I don't know if this is cropped enough for your liking, or to even be a good screen saver on a flip-phone's .7 inch front screen or not, but it might be!  I scaled it up 500% in photoshop, used bicubic (but not "bicubic softer"), added some NR and sharpened details to 86% (within the NR filter, didn't add any extra sharpening in PS...had actually reduced it in ACR, but boosted the detail slider in ACR prior to opening in PS). 

Hey, the plane was probably 5 to 7 miles away...it's not remotely "tack sharp", but you can see the winglets, side windows, wing flap rail guides, and it did freeze the propellor...which has 4 big blades.  Keep in mind this plane is about 50 feet long...so yea, it's not close to us at all.  They are quite cool, in my opinion.  The Swiss know how to do a few things very well, don't they?

If you google this airplane, you'll see a shot of it flying over the Golden Gate bridge.  I must say, that photographer sucks!  The green cargo ship in the water below, is quite fugly...totally ruins the shot.  They could have gone off and shot some other sites, then come back after the ship passed.  It would have taken an extra 5 minutes, not that big of a deal.  Even I am more professional than that!   

Shot stats: f/4.5, 1/6400, ISO 320, 200mm...Mach 25 closure (Joking!)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 04:13:15 PM
Wellfed, relax...i've enjoyed this thread immensely...I liked your shot, and want you to shoot more.  Much of my work is aerial photography, but not usually "air to air"...obviously!

My request, however, would be to shoot an airliner as it is first going full throttle on the runway at takeoff, on a very rainy day.  I've not seen airplanes much more awesome, than when they are blowing a cloud of water hundreds of feet backward.  I've yet to take any snaps of that, though.  I don't travel that much on airliners...I want to!

Here is the full size, uncropped version...but scaled down to 1300 x 867 pixels.  Looks a lot sharper here, but tiny.  Yes there's a lot of color and other noise in this shot.  I forget how I played with this version...I was trying to heavily cut the green tint of the window...and also to try to see through the haze to the mountains on the lower right that are about 80 miles distant. 

Straight out of the camera, you basically couldn't see the ground on the right side of the shot at all.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 05:07:44 PM
Your Exif data shows f/5, 1/1000, ISO 100, 105mm.  You can clearly see the motion blur on the front of the wings and horizontal stabilizer (especially via my second version, cropped and scaled up a bit over 200%).  I say 70% of the sharpness “loss” of this shot, is that you needed to peg your shutter speed at 1/4000, and close the lens to f/6.3 (given my experience with that lens, on a 1D Mk4).  This would have required ISO 640 or so, which would have been fine.  The other 30% of sharpness loss, is the glass of your windshield, and a slight lack of the lens’ sharpness.  It’s not a fault of the AF, in my opinion…although it’s possible it might need some tweaking in AFMA?  I have no idea.   Not sure if you were in servo AF mode or not, either…that can be a big factor…can help at times, other times not.  I probably would have multi-half-pressed the shutter in single shot AF as the plane got close, then held it half pressed til it got close enough.  Center point only, of course…then recompose as necessary as you are panning, etc.

You also likey didn’t pan with the plane quite fast enough as it passed…not easy to do, I know.  Also, if you left image stabilization on (you probably did not)…that would have been a big no-no with this lens…as it has no panning mode.  I think the image would have been a lot more blurred if it had been left on.  If it was on, then you must have done little or no panning.  I can only guess.

I converted this jpg to a DNG, so I could first open in ACR, then crop it farther, then play with it.  I added 33 on the sharpening slider with .5 pixel radius, then pushed to 92 on the detail slider.  I then saved changes, and opened the image in Photoshop.  Then I took a 10 hour nap after my daily afternoon romp with a room full of cheerleaders (hey somebody laugh!)…nah I did all this in a few minutes.
 
In PS, for the second image, I scaled it up 2.2x in “bilinear”, performed no other changes, saved as jpg.  This should illustrate my point about the motion blur (wing and stabi leading edges…even the line around the door on the side).  At a closure speed of approximately 1200 mph…you need more than 1/1000/sec shutter speed.  Frankly, I’m surprised it’s not any more blurred than it is!  Obviously you panned somewhat.  MORE THAN A DECENT JOB for an admitted “amateur”.

Sharpening artifacts around the high contrast edges as metal meets sky?  Yes, but it’s not all that bothersome.  Look good with this amount of crop on a billboard the size of a 2 mile runway?  Sure, why not…:P !!! 
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 05:13:50 PM
Here they are:
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 05:16:54 PM
220% scaled up and further cropped, to show motion blur.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 07, 2013, 06:42:17 PM
Thanks, Carl. Your skills are an order of magnitude above mine.  ;)

Yes, I made a lot of the mistakes you mentioned, but- about panning- there really isn't time or room for that for an airplane traveling along a reciprocal track. If ATC mentions the traffic (more for interest, since separation is adequate if everyone's doing what they're supposed to be doing)- you won't actually see the aircraft until he's well inside 10 miles. That's less than 40 seconds from when he starts out as a hazy dot until he disappears over (or under) your windscreen. It's only the last 2 or 3 seconds that he's big enough in your field of view to produce a useable photo. You aim, you shoot, sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.

Crossing traffic is easier as is the organized track system over the Atlantic where everyone's stacked up and going in the same direction. (But I haven't flown either big ocean since before digital cameras were available to the masses.)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 07, 2013, 07:01:50 PM
I just don't get why we keep discussing this. 

I'm the OP, and frankly, I'm sorry I posted the shot.

Holy Cow. Let it go.

Don't be sorry.  I posted my opinion, then people argued with me.  You're not really involved.  In my first post I said its a cool shot, just not proof of how autofocus works.  I think it's you who is over reacting now.  Just watch and read and see what is being discussed.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 07, 2013, 07:42:13 PM
Here some shots.  Some of them taken with point and shoots.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 07, 2013, 07:43:55 PM
And I ran into this one.  Similar to the original shot posted.  Came from above, distorted by the cockpit window.  The back part looks like it could be motion blur, but as is apparent by the front of the plane, it's just distortion.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 07, 2013, 08:27:55 PM
Here some shots.  Some of them taken with point and shoots.
Same direction of flight, NAT tracks?
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 07, 2013, 08:59:18 PM
Some. I think a few were crossing.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 07, 2013, 09:16:50 PM
As you know, much easier than opposite-direction traffic.

My last overseas position was B744F, last flight 2 weeks after 911, so still shooting film. That'd be a perfect airplane for north atlantic shots today since we cruised it at .86 and eventually passed everyone except Concorde and other 400s... Should be back overseas next year on the 787, this time with a DSLR.  :)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 10:29:33 PM
Holy crap, michi and canuck, this is too cool.  Michi, I like those! 

Thanks Canuck...to some on here apparently I am just an ignorant moron.  I'm just waiting for the "poor syntax" attacks to start, hahaha.

Btw, I have loads of other airplane shots, mostly from the ground...some are model planes.  Will also try to find one of a helicopter from above taken with the little P7000.  I've been working on some bird snapshots to post in my "sigma lens for birding" thread.

And again please, somebody take shots of jets taking off in the rain...I guess I'll have to do it sometime.  It means driving to atlanta and standing there in the rain at the fence...if that's even possible anymore, I haven't been to that area of the airport since before 9/11.

Ahh the Concorde...we didn't know what we were going to lose out on till they retired them all.

The 787 looks freaky the way its wings flex upward!  Imagine they were built by the lowest bidder, and it would be even more scary!
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: michi on February 07, 2013, 11:36:50 PM
Yeah, definitely easier than oncoming traffic, but still doable.  I have a few, no idea where though, too big of a unorganized hard drive...  Use a higher ISO, stop the lens down, don't zoom in so much and later crop in a bit.

The best shot I ever missed was being passed by a Concorde above us.  Felt like we were standing still.  Way too quick to grab a film camera.

I have a ton of ground to air shots too.  Have given up standing by airports though.  No more fun since 9-11.  Although St. Maarten is still a blast.  And it does sporadically rain there on occasion, that would be a great place for planes and rain and rainbows and so on.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 11:54:52 PM
Good idea, i've seen quite a few youtube vids of St. Maarten.  Alas, I have yet to travel there.

300 f/4 IS + 2.0x ii, handheld standing in my front yard, 1D Mark IV, cropped to 100%, ISO 1250, a bit of NR in ACR and PS, opened as a 16 bit file.  Center point-only AF, effectively an f/8 lens...shot at f/10...about 40 minutes before sunset.  This is one of the sharper shots I got with this combo (of planes or otherwise).  The 2.0x ii is fussy, and so was this lens.  But renting the 1D IV was (I imagine) about as fun as visiting the bunny ranch...ahahahah.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 07, 2013, 11:58:40 PM
Uncropped version, scaled down.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: wellfedCanuck on February 08, 2013, 05:24:19 AM
Something recent, A340 rwy 10 CCS
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on February 08, 2013, 01:55:45 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Jack Douglas on April 18, 2013, 02:57:48 PM
Nothing at all special about this other than it is 6D handheld and shows what I got with the 300 2.8 II and the 2X III  AI focus AF, in case anyone might wonder.

Looking at the displayed AF points, I had  moved way off target.

6D  600mm 1250th F6.3  ISO 250

Jack
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on April 19, 2013, 04:17:53 AM
Jack, that looks decent, but perhaps it should have been sharper.  I'm not sure why you weren't in single shot autofocus.  For a shot like this, you need to refine infinity focus by a couple of half presses of the shutter in single shot mode...
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Jack Douglas on April 23, 2013, 01:08:48 AM
Thanks CarlTN,

The answer.  I don't think I gave it any thought since I was still in learning mode not having used the camera very much.  I'll take your advice for this and some other situations.  I think I just happened to see the plane and swung the camera up like a point and shoot dummy!

Actually, I'm suffering from chronic severe headaches after getting hit on the head some months back and most days I just go out in nature to try to engage my mind in something not very demanding.  Hope that changes because I really wan't to improve my technique.

It's over three weeks now and where's my 6D?!  :'(

Jack
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on April 23, 2013, 11:40:41 AM
Jack, very sorry to hear of your injury, I hope you improve and have fewer headaches!  I also hope you get your camera back soon.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: jon_charron on April 23, 2013, 12:50:49 PM
Didn't read the whole thread, but I will say this:  I HAD a 7D, which I loved.  It was stolen and replaced it with a 6D with 24-105 lens at $2329.  So you can guys can figure out what that equates to price wise for the body.

Once you get used to the 7D for sports, birds, or whatever, you will be very frustrated with the 6D focusing ability on moving subjects.  Sigh.  The wifi is not a great solution for studio work like I thought it would be, and I never use GPS because it ALWAYS stays on even when the camera is turned off and it's easy to kill your battery accidentally.  I still shoot portraits tethered via USB, and the images straight of the camera are 5DIIish = pretty good and perhaps slightly nicer than the 7D, which would usually need a bit of PP to make them their best.

I planned to get a 7D II when it came out, but got tired of waiting.  What I probably should have done was get a 7D right away and sell it later when the 7D II came out.  The 6D is just...meh.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Canon-F1 on April 23, 2013, 01:23:18 PM

I planned to get a 7D II when it came out, but got tired of waiting.  What I probably should have done was get a 7D right away and sell it later when the 7D II came out.  The 6D is just...meh.

yeah hard decision.. 7D ugly noise... or the 6D AF.
well, it depends what you shoot.

for my kind of work today i take the 6D all day over a 7D.

i bought a 7D for action shots.. but the IQ never really impressed me.
and i don´t use it very often.

the 6D on the other hand .. you can´t get better IQ with a canon today.
i even compared it to the 1D X and they are so close.

i ended up buying one (after my 5D MK2 shutter finaly died i needed a new camera fast).
even when i think the 6D AF is kind of a shame for a canon camera in 2013.
but hey you have to know what you will use it for.



 
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: babiesphotos on April 23, 2013, 02:07:14 PM
How about subjects moving towards the camera, off-center, shooting sub f/2.8 and that will make the 5d2/6D sweat.

+1 ... Try shooting a two year old kid running about ... The shots in focus will be great, but they'll be a minor percentage of the total shots made.

Yeah, I do that all the time.
I found that percentage of fails was very high with 5d mark III.
Of course 6D is a bit worse, but for all practical purposes I could use either one and expect similar low percentage of in focus pics, and few keepers per each session...
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: RLPhoto on April 23, 2013, 05:16:14 PM
How about subjects moving towards the camera, off-center, shooting sub f/2.8 and that will make the 5d2/6D sweat.

+1 ... Try shooting a two year old kid running about ... The shots in focus will be great, but they'll be a minor percentage of the total shots made.

Yeah, I do that all the time.
I found that percentage of fails was very high with 5d mark III.
Of course 6D is a bit worse, but for all practical purposes I could use either one and expect similar low percentage of in focus pics, and few keepers per each session...

Then you must be using the MK3 wrong, Its been atleast 70% hit rate with the 50L in the situation I mentioned. You'd be lucky to get a 30% hit rate with a 6D/5D2.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on April 24, 2013, 03:13:03 PM
Didn't read the whole thread, but I will say this:  I HAD a 7D, which I loved.  It was stolen and replaced it with a 6D with 24-105 lens at $2329.  So you can guys can figure out what that equates to price wise for the body.

Once you get used to the 7D for sports, birds, or whatever, you will be very frustrated with the 6D focusing ability on moving subjects.  Sigh.  The wifi is not a great solution for studio work like I thought it would be, and I never use GPS because it ALWAYS stays on even when the camera is turned off and it's easy to kill your battery accidentally.  I still shoot portraits tethered via USB, and the images straight of the camera are 5DIIish = pretty good and perhaps slightly nicer than the 7D, which would usually need a bit of PP to make them their best.

I planned to get a 7D II when it came out, but got tired of waiting.  What I probably should have done was get a 7D right away and sell it later when the 7D II came out.  The 6D is just...meh.

I still wonder if people who have had a similar experience to you, just left the AF adjustments at their factory default?  I changed mine some, and it is very responsive for servo autofocus.  I have yet to miss one shot.

The 7D is highly inferior, regarding IQ, to the 6D.  It just is.  Far from "slightly nicer"...the 7D is rubbish above IS0 640, at least compared to the 6D.  The 6D's files are even better than the 5D3's...between ISO 1000 and 16,000.  To say otherwise is to not directly compare the two, which I have...or to be overly biased or dishonest.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: sarakoth on September 11, 2013, 01:35:02 AM
I still wonder if people who have had a similar experience to you, just left the AF adjustments at their factory default?  I changed mine some, and it is very responsive for servo autofocus.  I have yet to miss one shot.

Might have missed this, but can you expand on what you did?

Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on September 11, 2013, 02:56:29 PM
I still wonder if people who have had a similar experience to you, just left the AF adjustments at their factory default?  I changed mine some, and it is very responsive for servo autofocus.  I have yet to miss one shot.

Might have missed this, but can you expand on what you did?

I don't recall at this point exactly what settings I did at that time.  But I have noticed that until you adjust them to one extreme or the other, there is not a lot of difference.  The main problem with my own 6D's AF, is that in servo mode with all points active, it tends to ignore the center point, and instead attempts to find focus with all the outer points...which are obviously not as good as the center point.  This occurs even when the subject is obviously directly on the center point...If this behavior is typical of most 6D's, then this alone would account for most of the low hit rate complaints with the 6D.  However, there were other complaints that wound up being a completely faulty AF sensor, where it either needed replacing, or perhaps some kind of software update that only Canon service personnel can do (I am only guessing about the specifics of this).

If you are asking the basics of tweaking the AF in servo mode, that is in the AF menu.  What is it you are shooting, what's the situation, and what lens...if I may ask?
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: sarakoth on September 12, 2013, 01:46:55 AM
I don't recall at this point exactly what settings I did at that time.  But I have noticed that until you adjust them to one extreme or the other, there is not a lot of difference.  The main problem with my own 6D's AF, is that in servo mode with all points active, it tends to ignore the center point, and instead attempts to find focus with all the outer points...which are obviously not as good as the center point.  This occurs even when the subject is obviously directly on the center point...If this behavior is typical of most 6D's, then this alone would account for most of the low hit rate complaints with the 6D.  However, there were other complaints that wound up being a completely faulty AF sensor, where it either needed replacing, or perhaps some kind of software update that only Canon service personnel can do (I am only guessing about the specifics of this).

If you are asking the basics of tweaking the AF in servo mode, that is in the AF menu.  What is it you are shooting, what's the situation, and what lens...if I may ask?

Thanks... I will check out the menus again.. I think I did when I got the camera about a month ago but not sure if I changed anything.

I have not really had a problem, but wanted to review what my settings were, and what possibly should change.

I did one track day (which I posted a couple of pics on a different thread which you commented on IIRC) and used centre point focusing in whichever is the middle option for AF.. (can't remember if that is Servo or AI focus.. I think AI).. I was trying to pan and keep my subject generally in the middle of the frame anyway, so not sure if any "passing" occurred to the outer AF points or not. Even with subjects coming towards me and then across in front of me, it seemed ok and certainly no worse than my old 500D. :)
 
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on September 13, 2013, 04:33:55 PM
I don't recall at this point exactly what settings I did at that time.  But I have noticed that until you adjust them to one extreme or the other, there is not a lot of difference.  The main problem with my own 6D's AF, is that in servo mode with all points active, it tends to ignore the center point, and instead attempts to find focus with all the outer points...which are obviously not as good as the center point.  This occurs even when the subject is obviously directly on the center point...If this behavior is typical of most 6D's, then this alone would account for most of the low hit rate complaints with the 6D.  However, there were other complaints that wound up being a completely faulty AF sensor, where it either needed replacing, or perhaps some kind of software update that only Canon service personnel can do (I am only guessing about the specifics of this).

If you are asking the basics of tweaking the AF in servo mode, that is in the AF menu.  What is it you are shooting, what's the situation, and what lens...if I may ask?

Thanks... I will check out the menus again.. I think I did when I got the camera about a month ago but not sure if I changed anything.

I have not really had a problem, but wanted to review what my settings were, and what possibly should change.

I did one track day (which I posted a couple of pics on a different thread which you commented on IIRC) and used centre point focusing in whichever is the middle option for AF.. (can't remember if that is Servo or AI focus.. I think AI).. I was trying to pan and keep my subject generally in the middle of the frame anyway, so not sure if any "passing" occurred to the outer AF points or not. Even with subjects coming towards me and then across in front of me, it seemed ok and certainly no worse than my old 500D. :)

If you selected center point, then no other points are active.  This is the bare bones AF approach, obviously not as sophisticated or developed as the 7D's and 5D3's AF.  You can only either select one of the points, or else engage them all (similar to how their lesser DSLR cameras work, yes.)

I generally don't use AI Focus.  I like to use "one shot" mode, then hold the depth of field preview button to engage servo mode.  Works perfectly with any hand-held lens...not quite as good when using a monopod.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: bholliman on September 13, 2013, 05:47:08 PM
I like to use "one shot" mode, then hold the depth of field preview button to engage servo mode.  Works perfectly with any hand-held lens...not quite as good when using a monopod.

Do you reprogram the DOF preview button?
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: neuroanatomist on September 13, 2013, 08:29:18 PM
I generally don't use AI Focus.  I like to use "one shot" mode, then hold the depth of field preview button to engage servo mode. 

I used AI Focus on my T1i when I first got it - it sounded like the best of both worlds.   I quickly learned that the camera wasn't very good at deciding when a subject went from stationary to mobile.  Interestingly, AI Focus isn't even an option on the 1D X (nor is there a green square mode).

One Shot with a button press to switch to AI Servo works well - I have my M.Fn2 button (second button next to the DoF Preview) set for that.  However, I do wish it would toggle Servo on/off with successive presses, rather than only activating Servo while the button is held down. 

Another option is to use back-button AF - in Servo mode, focusing stops when you release the AF-ON button, so you can just tap that button to focus on a stationary subject (although you don't get a confirmation beep/light), or hold it down for a moving subject.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on September 14, 2013, 01:35:23 PM
I like to use "one shot" mode, then hold the depth of field preview button to engage servo mode.  Works perfectly with any hand-held lens...not quite as good when using a monopod.

Do you reprogram the DOF preview button?

Yes, that's the only way to do it.
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: CarlTN on September 14, 2013, 01:40:42 PM
I generally don't use AI Focus.  I like to use "one shot" mode, then hold the depth of field preview button to engage servo mode. 

I used AI Focus on my T1i when I first got it - it sounded like the best of both worlds.   I quickly learned that the camera wasn't very good at deciding when a subject went from stationary to mobile.  Interestingly, AI Focus isn't even an option on the 1D X (nor is there a green square mode).

One Shot with a button press to switch to AI Servo works well - I have my M.Fn2 button (second button next to the DoF Preview) set for that.  However, I do wish it would toggle Servo on/off with successive presses, rather than only activating Servo while the button is held down. 

Another option is to use back-button AF - in Servo mode, focusing stops when you release the AF-ON button, so you can just tap that button to focus on a stationary subject (although you don't get a confirmation beep/light), or hold it down for a moving subject.

True, the 1 series don't bother with all the gobbledygook that's born out of the point and shoot feature set.  I have my 6D set so the "AF on" button turns off the autofocus...for those times when it wants to hunt, when there is a very bright contrasty object...usually behind...the target.  Almost seems like my 50D didn't get sucked into those focus traps as badly as the 6D does (but it's also lens dependent).  I can live with it though.  As for the 1DX not quite doing everything you want it to, don't you wish you could afford something better?  (haha)
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Gilbo65 on September 30, 2013, 08:31:51 AM
Action shots and focus??

Not as fast as my 7d, but:

1) better than many will have you believe
2) better than the price point would suggest, given it's FF and very good in low light

A couple of examples using some fast moving subjects in varied light:

Mountain Bike:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983840@N08/8622403310/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983840@N08/9722589071/

Rugby in very poor winter light (heavy rain clouds and had to give up with the 7D):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22983840@N08/8653559828/

Yes, the 7D has the cross-points and the FPS - and this still makes me choose it when the lighting conditions allow. But if the light drops?  I don't hesitate to transfer over from my 7D to the 6D.

Overall, quite a surprise..
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: Khalai on June 04, 2014, 06:23:52 AM
Action shots and focus??

Not as fast as my 7d, but:

1) better than many will have you believe
2) better than the price point would suggest, given it's FF and very good in low light

...

Yes, the 7D has the cross-points and the FPS - and this still makes me choose it when the lighting conditions allow. But if the light drops?  I don't hesitate to transfer over from my 7D to the 6D.

Overall, quite a surprise..

+1, After a few months with 6D, even the outer AF points which are non-cross-type are quite reliable. My experience is that it either nails the focus or fails to lock at all (very small percentage of shots, no contrast, no lines, basicly every PDAF would most likely fail). The 7D is better, as I also have one, no doubt about that, but for anything other than fast moving subject requiring sophisticated AF servo, the 6D is sufficient enough
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: mnclayshooter on October 22, 2014, 12:10:30 AM
A series with the 6D/24-105... AF-Servo and a friend's kid running towards me.  Tracked him pretty well.  Just since it seems there's quite a few who would want you to believe the 6D doesn't work well for this. 

I stacked the images on top of each other because of the 8 attachment limitation. I realized when I got to the end that I didn't transfer the 9th image from the SD card to the PC... oops.  It wasn't a dropped shot though.   would be 14 frames...

Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 22, 2014, 01:24:26 AM
A series with the 6D/24-105... AF-Servo and a friend's kid running towards me.  Tracked him pretty well.  Just since it seems there's quite a few who would want you to believe the 6D doesn't work well for this. 

Bright light (1/500 s, f/4 , ISO 100 = 13 EV), good contrast between subject and background, keeping the subject centered in the frame so only the center point is used, and at f/4 DoF isn't very shallow.  Actually, my Rebel T1i did pretty well in situations like that, too. 
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: mnclayshooter on October 22, 2014, 03:18:02 PM
A series with the 6D/24-105... AF-Servo and a friend's kid running towards me.  Tracked him pretty well.  Just since it seems there's quite a few who would want you to believe the 6D doesn't work well for this. 

Bright light (1/500 s, f/4 , ISO 100 = 13 EV), good contrast between subject and background, keeping the subject centered in the frame so only the center point is used, and at f/4 DoF isn't very shallow.  Actually, my Rebel T1i did pretty well in situations like that, too.

I agree, Neuro... just wanting to show some examples of how the camera actually does work... some people come here reading about camera to potentially buy for themselves and read rants about this or that and might walk away thinking they can't get a good camera for what they can afford.  It seems like a lot of people write based on spec pages and speculation/rumors (after all this is called canon rumors)... rather than actually holding the camera. 
Title: Re: for those who snub the 6D AF...
Post by: meanstreak on December 27, 2014, 12:36:35 PM
I shoot a lot of high school football with the 6D and 70-200 2.8L IS.  In order to get the best shots I have to use only the center focus point and normally can get great shots (though slow with the FPS.) 

The biggest problem I have is when I'm tracking a player and another one or a ref etc. gets in the way of the shot I have a difficult time re-establishing focus quickly.  I had a similar problem with my old 40D although it wasn't as bad.  It could just be my own noob mistakes I suppose!