canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on July 12, 2011, 02:10:35 PM

Title: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Canon Rumors on July 12, 2011, 02:10:35 PM
No 1Ds, however…… I’m told a mid September announcement for a 1D Mark V. It will be a full frame high fps camera that will lead to the amalgamation of the 1Ds/1D line.

Availability for the camera will be at the end of October.

The camera will have a “digital cropping mode”.

CR’s Take Lots of talk about this, I’ve yet to see anything definitive. Though it makes a lot of sense to me.

cr

1D Mark IV for $4999 @ B&H

Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: sjaudio on July 12, 2011, 02:19:05 PM
I'm excited for this, but only because the 5D update can't be far behind.  I'd love to see Canon blow Nikon and Sony out of the water with their new flagship.  Let's just hope the 5D gets the same treatment.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: justicend on July 12, 2011, 02:42:15 PM
We have to wait to see, full frame and speed. Is price is merging too ?  ::)
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 12, 2011, 03:10:30 PM
I'm still not sure that I buy this as something that will come to pass - sounds more like wishes than rumors.  But...a FF camera with at least 8 fps, 1-series build and AF system, and sufficient MP to allow adequate digital crop (at least 16 MP at a 1.3x, so it's no worse than the 1DIV)...IF such a camera comes along, I'm sure it's price point will be closer to the 1Ds, if not more...and I'll still buy one.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Harv on July 12, 2011, 03:19:58 PM
If this was to happen, my guess is that it will be priced in line with Nikon's D3x at around $8,000.  Would they also continue to produce the 1D Mark IV and market it around the $5,000 point such as Nikon's D3s?  That would make sense to me.

Either way, I'm not about to part with my Mark IV any time soon.  I have never had a single complaint with it.  It rocks.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: J-Man on July 12, 2011, 03:36:44 PM
I'd guess $6000, 10fps @25mp.
I'm more interested in NL's 3D rumor, and the patent for a new multilayer sensor(Foveon).
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_3d.html
(http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/camera_images_7/Canon/misc/multilayer_11.png)
http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-07-06
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on July 12, 2011, 03:45:17 PM
Is price is merging too ?  ::)

Hehe, excellent point.

I fully expect that the 1DV will be a high speed, high resolution FF camera.

IMO, the 1DV will be initially priced at $6,000.
The 1DIV will remain in production for maybe a year and will continue to sell for $5000.
After this one year period - effectively a transitional period - the 1DV will drop to $5500 (or even $5000) and the 1DIV will be discontinued.

Some dismiss the merging of the 1-series on the grounds that Canon has always been charging $$$ for the 1Ds.
But that was then and this is now, as the saying goes.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: steven63 on July 12, 2011, 03:47:32 PM
I'm waiting on baited breath.

For the announcement of anything.

Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: WarStreet on July 12, 2011, 04:32:58 PM
This rumor is about the 1DV not the 1DsIV. For the 1DV I expect nothing less than the 1DIV, meaning 9-10 fps on FF, with a low res (21 MP ?) and with the same price of the 1DIV.  The merging of high res and speed should be the highest priced camera 1DsIV, maybe about 40mp. Sony seems they are going for a low res and high res FF cameras too. 
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Cannon Man on July 12, 2011, 04:42:32 PM
I dont want the 1D cameras merging! cos' it sounds like a compromise and giving up on the industry leading "flagship" camera. i cant imagine a crop mode on a 1D, i would rather like more mp and slower shutter speed. i like using the 1Ds III for studio work and the 1D IV for sports!
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Stu_bert on July 12, 2011, 05:33:16 PM
Providing the same 16MP crop on a FF sensor would I think (if my maths is correct) require 26.6MP with the same pixel density as the Mk IV, so hardly a massive leap - in fact the same pixel density occurred last in the 40D.

Anyone know how sRAW is done on current models - would this be the same method for doing the 1.3x crop on a FF ?

All other things being equal, there is sense to it, 1.3x when you want it, FF when you don't. But hardly shaking up the market or their lineup, and not about to compete with the >32MP Sony / Nikon FF rumoured to be launched at the same time.

32MP would provide a 1.3x crop just shy of 20MP and a 1.6MP crop of 12.6MP but would require some good tech to match / better current high iso / low noise of the 1D IV.

Middle to end of August will be interesting, but I'm guessing lots more unknowns until early to mid 2012. ;D
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Dymonds on July 12, 2011, 06:41:51 PM
I have been following the forums on the new models (both 1 & 5 series) for some time with interest. What I have seen is that most people are looking for specs which seem to be already available on the Nikon D3 models. Given that it is likely that Nikon will also upgrade their lines almost simultaneously, then I would hope (and expect) that Canon would look to one step further. While I believe the 1Div will be moved to a FF sensor, it will have the capacity to crop to 1.3x. The Nikon D3s already does this but drops from 12.1 to 8.4 megapixels.
What confuses me is that there are solid rumours about testing Mk 5Diii prototypes in the field and release for this is touted in c Q2 2012 whereas release for a 1D series is Q3 2011 and nothing about testing. Logically, the !d series should come 1st given its age but then again despite the 5Dii qualities, I do believe that it needs a upgrade to catch up on technological advancements, the market and the competition.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: gmrza on July 12, 2011, 06:45:40 PM
I'm still not sure that I buy this as something that will come to pass - sounds more like wishes than rumors.  But...a FF camera with at least 8 fps, 1-series build and AF system, and sufficient MP to allow adequate digital crop (at least 16 MP at a 1.3x, so it's no worse than the 1DIV)...IF such a camera comes along, I'm sure it's price point will be closer to the 1Ds, if not more...and I'll still buy one.

Canon haven't revealed their strategy to deal with the D3x and D3s yet, so really, anything is speculation at the moment.  If they stick in the same price range as the D3x, then Canon need to provide performance which is light years ahead of Nikon.  Alternatively, they can do a little bit more than Nikon, and start edging lower on price - assuming that the real money is in lenses.

I have my doubts that they will undercut Nikon.  Which makes me think that the pricing will stay closer to the 1Ds.

This also depends on Canon's strategy for attacking the medium format crowd.  Canon may well merge what we currently perceive as the 1D and 1Ds lines, and come up with something new aimed at cannibalising what is left of the medium format market.  - Keep in mind though that in attacking the medium format segment, Canon is in the territory of diminishing gains, as that segment is so small.  It does bring a lot of marketing value with it though.

I dunno!
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Bob Howland on July 12, 2011, 07:47:46 PM
Would it make sense for Canon to bracket the 1D5 with a couple new and cheaper models having slightly lower build quality but still being highly capable: (1) a FF 40MP model (5D3?), to replace the 1Ds series and (2) a 16-18MP Lord of Darkness camera (the mythical 3D?) for those of us who like/have to take pictures in absurdly low light levels? I've never understood why a "studio" camera has to be built as well as a sports shooter/photojournalist camera that gets abused daily and I think a relatively inexpensive LOD camera would be very popular with wedding photographers.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: V8Beast on July 12, 2011, 07:54:19 PM

IMO, the 1DV will be initially priced at $6,000.
The 1DIV will remain in production for maybe a year and will continue to sell for $5000.
After this one year period - effectively a transitional period - the 1DV will drop to $5500 (or even $5000) and the 1DIV will be discontinued.

Some dismiss the merging of the 1-series on the grounds that Canon has always been charging $$$ for the 1Ds.
But that was then and this is now, as the saying goes.

Sounds logical to me. If the rumors hold somewhat true, and Canon introduces a full-frame 1DV for $6K, I will order one up ASAP.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: KWSW on July 12, 2011, 10:05:43 PM
Oh darn this just threw my plans to get a 1D4 this month back to the drawing board again. Maybe I should just look for a used 1D4 instead since by the time (if its really a sept announcement date) stock allocation will be enough for the normal stores will be sometime next year I guess...
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Stone on July 12, 2011, 11:11:40 PM
I'll probably never make a dime from my photography, but I'm seriously considering buying this body if this rumor is true.  It makes sense to me to release this body first so Canon can work out any af issues well before the Olympics next year. 

I'm most interested in the DR improvements that Canon's made since their last ff sensor, I'm expecting major improvements in that regard.  If it comes in at $6k or less and I can get a relatively clean ISO 12,800, I'll stand in line at B&H to buy this.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on July 12, 2011, 11:19:55 PM
Sounds logical to me. If the rumors hold somewhat true, and Canon introduces a full-frame 1DV for $6K, I will order one up ASAP.

Close your eyes, click your heels together three times,
and repeat after me:

"I will not make purchase decisions based on a rumor"

"I will not make purchase decisions based on a rumor"

"I will not make purchase decisions based on a rumor"
 ;)
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: UncleFester on July 13, 2011, 01:32:09 AM
This rumor is about the 1DV not the 1DsIV. For the 1DV I expect nothing less than the 1DIV, meaning 9-10 fps on FF, with a low res (21 MP ?) and with the same price of the 1DIV.  The merging of high res and speed should be the highest priced camera 1DsIV, maybe about 40mp. Sony seems they are going for a low res and high res FF cameras too.

I agree with this continuation of the 1D series split. It makes the most sense if the 1DV is  to be a full frame and still affordable to splurging non-pros. Then the 1Ds could be the high megapixel, high cost body possibly revised chassis with some kind of bomb-proof super metal or even plastic for weight reduction.



Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: motorhead on July 13, 2011, 06:31:38 AM
I can see the sense in merging the two into a single model, but it will be a difficult trick to get right.

If Canon propose a merger of the 1D and 1Ds then the camera will have to significantly improve on what both cameras currently offer their respective customers. That's not going to be easy!

Offering a miserable 21mb on full frame is never going to cut it, even 32mb is borderline these days. I am in the market for a 1Ds with 40mb and improved DR and will not be buying if it's not giving me that. I'm not interested in how many fps I can get as I've never used what I've already got and would be perfectly happy with zero fps.

If Canon satisfy me, then they will struggle to offer the photo journalists what they want. If Canon had actually released the 32mb 1Ds4 rumoured a year or so ago, then I'd have happily bought it, but they decided against it and since then things have moved on. Medium format is beginning to re-establish itself and any 1Ds replacement needs to take that threat seriously.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Picsfor on July 13, 2011, 07:12:34 AM
If you pop over to the Nikon Rumour's site, you will see they are expecting a D4/400 release for September time.

Canon are no doubt watching the Nikon camp carefully, and i fully expect a release to match that of the Nikons.

Apart from the 5DII, Canon really don't have any thing to match Nikon's at the moment, and were it not for the MP values, i think Canon would be suffering even more than they are.

A 1D5 would be more than welcome if it was full frame at 21mp with 8fps and an iso that was comparible to now or 1 stop better. Space for 2 CF cards would also be welcome, along with built in wifi.

As a current 5DII owner, i'm more than happy with the 21mp, and would leave the higher MP for the landscape and still life bods...
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: mrcrsr on July 13, 2011, 09:08:41 AM
Let's go Canon.
Money is ready and waiting for being transferred to you :-)
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: chito on July 13, 2011, 09:37:37 AM
It actually makes sense to me to have a 1DV "merged".. too bad we wouldn't have a "cheaper" 1D camera... but a 40 megapixel FF 1DV would have a roughly 23.6 megapixel aps-h crop... processing on digital crop mode would be roughly twice as fast (almost 2X fps as in FF mode).. sounds great to me
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: ronderick on July 13, 2011, 10:17:07 AM
Well, since we're talking about possibilities, what's preventing Canon from releasing a FF 1D5 to replace the APS-H format 1DIV, but still come out with the 1Ds4?

That will probably satisfy the majority of users (save for those who'll miss the x1.3 crop) while still keeping the line split, aka. retain the pricing difference ;D
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: bvukich on July 13, 2011, 11:55:59 AM
Well, since we're talking about possibilities, what's preventing Canon from releasing a FF 1D5 to replace the APS-H format 1DIV, but still come out with the 1Ds4?

Probably just their desire to have less active lines of sensor development.  However, if a 1D5 were to share a sensor with another higher volume FF, like the 5D3; it could actually work to their benefit.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: WarStreet on July 13, 2011, 12:32:42 PM
As I said above, Why you are thinking that the 1DV is going to replace the 1Ds and 1D series, leaving nothing in the 1D price range ? Is it obvious that the high res and speed merging would happen in the 1Ds price range and the 1D series will just continue as usual probably FF leaving the same price ranges as before ? The naming of the camera is not important, but price ranges are, and they can't leave the price range of the D3s/D4 out.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on July 13, 2011, 02:25:18 PM
As I said above, Why you are thinking that the 1DV is going to replace the 1Ds and 1D series, leaving nothing in the 1D price range ?

The merged 1-series camera - the 1DV - will be in the 1D price range, not in the 1Ds price range.

The thing is, the 1D price range is no longer $4K as some tend to believe. 

Canon is selling the 1DIV for $5K and Nikon is selling the D3s for $5.5K.
This is the new price range for this class of camera - whether you like it or not.

$5K is the new $4K ;).
Expect that 1DV to push that price at introduction - but then to come down to $5K within a year.

Canon does not want to sell you a 1-series camera for $4K anymore. These days are gone.

Moving the 1DV to FF will be just another justification for increasing the price.
You can see the same trend with the new 'big-whites' (300L, 400L, 500L, and 600L) - they are all more expensive than the lenses they replace.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Stone on July 13, 2011, 02:46:50 PM
As I said above, Why you are thinking that the 1DV is going to replace the 1Ds and 1D series, leaving nothing in the 1D price range ? Is it obvious that the high res and speed merging would happen in the 1Ds price range and the 1D series will just continue as usual probably FF leaving the same price ranges as before ? The naming of the camera is not important, but price ranges are, and they can't leave the price range of the D3s/D4 out.

I agree with this, if the 1D lines merge creating a single flagship body, it would need to compete with the D3x at the 7$K+ price point.  That would leave a huge price gap between the 5D and 1D bodies.  It would more than likely alienate sports shooters and serious amateurs accustomed to buying in the $4.5 - $5K price range.  I can't see Canon giving up those sales to the Nikon D4 or feeling generous and giving us their flagship at a more reasonable price that would appeal to a broader demographic.  If the lines really do merge, Canon either has to continue selling the 1DIV, keep this unified 1D body in the $4 - $6K price range or add a 3rd FF body to their lineup.

I think we'll continue to have the 1D at 24-32 MP FF with crop mode shooting at 10+ fps in the $5K range and the 1Ds probably at 40MP or more no crop mode shooting at 3-4 fps in the $7K+ range.  My only questions is what could Canon add other than the increase in MP to justify the premium over a 1DV.  They would be able to compete with Nikon quite well with this kind of lineup even though Nikon has a few more bodies to fill in the gaps.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: UncleFester on July 13, 2011, 04:28:23 PM


My only questions is what could Canon add other than the increase in MP to justify the premium over a 1DV.  They would be able to compete with Nikon quite well with this kind of lineup even though Nikon has a few more bodies to fill in the gaps.

They could do all sorts of stuff that they would just leave out of the 1D, 5d, 7d. Like I posted earlier: body re-design and add to that a higher-tech battery design would be huge. Not that super mega-pixels in it'self wouldn't be.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: dr croubie on July 13, 2011, 07:46:39 PM
Since it seems fairly plausible now that we have a CR1 level rumor about a 1D release (relatively) soon and that, according to what I have read on tis thread, we can expect a price tag of $6k .... I have two questions:

1) How long of a period after the new 1D is released do you forsee the new 5D released?
2) If the new 1D is at the $6k range as this thread suggests, at what price point would the 5D be at?

My guesses are 6 months after the 1D we will see a new 5D, and the 5D would come in at $3k.

if you mean 1d5, then it won't be related to the 5d3, imho.

- if 1ds4 is next out of the stable, then:
- - 5d3 with same sensor will be at least 6 months, probably closer to 12 behind.
- - 5d3 with lower sensor could be closer, even 3 months behind.

- if 5d3 comes first, then:
- - 1ds4 will have much higher mp than 5d3.
- - or 1d5 will be FF with faster crop-mode (1.3x at least 20mp) and 1ds is dead.

- if 1d5 comes first, then:
- - 1d5 will probably be ~20-25mp, dual digic V, same AF/FPS/etc as other 1d.
- - timeline for 5d3/1ds4 won't be affected


either way, any potential 1ds4 and 1d5 both announced at latest by 1Q 2012, on shelves in number before Olympics. If the 1 bodies come sooner, we *might* even see a 7D2 just before the Olympics...
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: distant.star on July 13, 2011, 07:57:09 PM

I don't believe a word of it.

Surprises are upcoming, I believe.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: rbr on July 13, 2011, 11:30:26 PM
The 1D IV has only been around for about a year and a half. Why would Canon be replacing that fantastic camera already? There are people out there who like its crop believe it or not. It's ideal for many big telephoto users. If Canon is coming out with a Mark V that has full frame for a lot more money, I will happily pass on it. The current Mark IV is just about perfect to me. There is apparently a lot of whining on the internet for a fast full frame camera. I do hope Canon comes out with one so they can be happy.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Stone on July 14, 2011, 01:07:34 AM
The 1D IV has only been around for about a year and a half. Why would Canon be replacing that fantastic camera already? There are people out there who like its crop believe it or not. It's ideal for many big telephoto users. If Canon is coming out with a Mark V that has full frame for a lot more money, I will happily pass on it. The current Mark IV is just about perfect to me. There is apparently a lot of whining on the internet for a fast full frame camera. I do hope Canon comes out with one so they can be happy.

Canon will produce a fast, FF body because Canon's number 1 competitor already offers multiple, fast, full frame bodies.  If a crop mode is offered, the big telephoto users will still have their crop factor while allowing the ability to go ultra wide when necessary, something alot of APS-H users complain about.  If we finally get this kind of body, other than the price which is also a matter of speculation, everyone wins.

I shoot everything from landscapes to sporting events, this would be the ultimate camera for myself and thousands of others, I'm glad you're happy with the 1DIV, it means 1 less person competing for what will surely be limited stock if this turns out to be real.

cheers...   
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: WarStreet on July 14, 2011, 02:47:18 AM
Since it seems fairly plausible now that we have a CR1 level rumor about a 1D release (relatively) soon and that, according to what I have read on tis thread, we can expect a price tag of $6k .... I have two questions:

1) How long of a period after the new 1D is released do you forsee the new 5D released?
2) If the new 1D is at the $6k range as this thread suggests, at what price point would the 5D be at?

My guesses are 6 months after the 1D we will see a new 5D, and the 5D would come in at $3k.

New cameras should have launch and eventual reduced prices similar to their previous version price pattern. Electronics technology improvement is the ability to give more for less.

Lenses is a different story, they can't improve the optics while reducing costs the same way as the electronics in the camera, so the only way to have a better lens is usually to spend more :(

Exchange rates and radical changes might effect the prices. 
 
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: motorhead on July 14, 2011, 05:01:44 AM
To those of us who have been to a greater or lesser extent patiently waiting for the 1Ds mk4, it does seem unfair that Canon are updating the 1D after such a short period.

But don't forget the target market for the 1D. Sports Journalists form a large chunk of that market and we have the 2012 London Olympics looming ever closer. Canon updated the camera for the last Winter Olympics so at least they are running true to form.

I would personally argue from my own observations at motor events that the 1Ds is also a very popular choice for this very same niche, but Canon seem convinced that the 1D is THE camera and I can only assume they have sales figures that support thier position.

Certainly there is no benefit in not updating the 1D. That just offers the Olympics to Nikon on a plate.   
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Polansky on July 14, 2011, 06:12:45 AM
Very plausible rumor despite its CR1 status.

Me personally thinks that this 1D V might be priced equally as the current 1D (so around the 5000 mark).

We know what happened to 1Ds when Canon introduced the 5D MKII. Sales of the 1Ds dropped dramatically despite is superior body and features over the 5D.

My thought is that we will get a crippled 5D3 again with again a bad autofocus system.
Canon wants current 5D2 owners not to upgrade to the 5D3, but rather have them upgrade to the 1D and therewith earn more money, due to larger profits on the 1D camera.

Those who say that 1D IV is only just over a year old, should better look at the release dates of the 1D.

First 1D released september 2001
1D MK II January 2004
1D MK IIn August 2005
1D MK III February 2007
1D MK IV October 2009

That means that the average life cycle of the 1D has been about 14 month since 1D MKII.

Therefore it makes sense that Canon could release a new 1D camera by september.

Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: bornshooter on July 14, 2011, 10:19:23 AM
canon has there flagship pro solutions show at london islington on october the 25/26 i put my life this new camera will be at this show.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: bornshooter on July 14, 2011, 11:26:40 AM
canon has there flagship pro solutions show at london islington on october the 25/26 i put my life this new camera will be at this show.

Whoa, hold the phone there ... I'd call that a rather sizable wager.
   
well this cr1 rumour says end of sept announcement would make sense for them to bring this or announce it at the show dont you think?
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: UncleFester on July 14, 2011, 12:08:25 PM


My thought is that we will get a crippled 5D3 again with again a bad autofocus system.
Canon wants current 5D2 owners not to upgrade to the 5D3, but rather have them upgrade to the 1D and therewith earn more money, due to larger profits on the 1D camera.



This was my thought as well but my reasoning is that they'll sell a crippled 5DIII to a new owner, who will eventually wind up buying a 7D for the autofocus. (I would think larger profits for small cameras with less R&D this time around with bigger sales). (But you're right, current 5D owners will probably not tolerate another crappy AF system).

Side note: Canon wants Non- 1D owners carrying 2 bodies.



Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on July 14, 2011, 12:45:37 PM


My thought is that we will get a crippled 5D3 again with again a bad autofocus system.
Canon wants current 5D2 owners not to upgrade to the 5D3, but rather have them upgrade to the 1D and therewith earn more money, due to larger profits on the 1D camera.



This was my thought as well but my reasoning is that they'll sell a crippled 5DIII to a new owner, who will eventually wind up buying a 7D for the autofocus. (I would think larger profits for small cameras with less R&D this time around with bigger sales). (But you're right, current 5D owners will probably not tolerate another crappy AF system).

Side note: Canon wants Non- 1D owners carrying 2 bodies.

You can have AF speed at the expense of accuracy (7D), or AF accuracy at the expense of Speed (5D series), or both speed and accuracy (1D series).

That seems to be Canon's way of differentiating models.

I prefer AF accuracy over speed, but would like both, of course.

We can always hope for both in a new 5d type camera.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Stone on July 14, 2011, 01:23:16 PM


My thought is that we will get a crippled 5D3 again with again a bad autofocus system.
Canon wants current 5D2 owners not to upgrade to the 5D3, but rather have them upgrade to the 1D and therewith earn more money, due to larger profits on the 1D camera.



This was my thought as well but my reasoning is that they'll sell a crippled 5DIII to a new owner, who will eventually wind up buying a 7D for the autofocus. (I would think larger profits for small cameras with less R&D this time around with bigger sales). (But you're right, current 5D owners will probably not tolerate another crappy AF system).

Side note: Canon wants Non- 1D owners carrying 2 bodies.

Also, if Canon releases another crippled 5D, new and existing customers have a high performance option from Nikon in the same price range.  The only people stuck would be those heavily invested in Canon EF glass.  Those moving up from crop bodies will more than likely be upgrading their lenses and brand new customers have to start from scratch with glass anyway.  The D700 shook things up by giving their customers just about everything (except video) right out of the gate.  I don't think crippling the next 5D is an option, it might not have 7D quality af but it should be light years ahead of what they have now.

I agree with you about Canon wanting people to carry 2 bodies, as an amateur, something I refuse to do.  That's why I'm thankful for the competition from Nikon.  If the 1DV is too costly or the 5DIII doesn't meet my expectations, I have another option in the D4 or D800
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: ronderick on July 14, 2011, 11:22:51 PM
You can have AF speed at the expense of accuracy (7D), or AF accuracy at the expense of Speed (5D series), or both speed and accuracy (1D series).

That seems to be Canon's way of differentiating models.

I prefer AF accuracy over speed, but would like both, of course.

We can always hope for both in a new 5d type camera.

I'm actually hoping for the exact opposite.

Personally, I think the 7D AF is developped for the serious-amateur market (as opposed to the intro-models AF in the XXXDs and the 45-point AF in the 1D-series). While Canon has long refused to make the AF system of the 1D available to the lower models, it realized that they have to offer something better, since the D300-line of Nikon already possess their upper-grade AF.

I think its safe to say that the next 5D would have a similar system as the 7D, which is still not as good as the pro-line but would be enough to quench the complaints of current 5D2 users.

As for the 1D... I think the AF system, built, and weathersealing is quite enough to set the pro model apart from the others (Yeah, and the $$$ too) ::)
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: UncleFester on July 15, 2011, 01:20:57 AM




I think its safe to say that the next 5D would have a similar system as the 7D, which is still not as good as the pro-line but would be enough to quench the complaints of current 5D2 users.


I would think that a 5D with 7D autofocus would pretty much kill off the 7D. Right now the 7D is their most high-tech supermodel of the sub-1D line.

Although a 5D/7D model would quench some complaints. :)
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: dr croubie on July 15, 2011, 02:16:21 AM
I would think that a 5D with 7D autofocus would pretty much kill off the 7D. Right now the 7D is their most high-tech supermodel of the sub-1D line.

Although a 5D/7D model would quench some complaints. :)

not necessarily. has the 1d ever killed off the 1ds sales because it's got the same AF? if there's anything anyone agrees on around here, it's that the 5d2 did more to kill sales of the 1ds than the 1d ever did.

FF 1ds, best AF, decent (5fps) framerate Vs 1.3x 1d, best AF, best (10fps) framerate.
Go down a rung.
FF 5d3, 2nd best (19pt) af, not as good (3.9fps) framerate Vs 1.6x 7d, 2nd best (19pt) af, 2nd best (8fps) framerate.

Sure, i'd be tempted by a 5d3, FF with ~25-30mp, 19pt AF, ~4fps.
but it'll be a lot more expensive than the 7d (or 7d2), which will have higher noise, aps-c, 8fps, etc.
even if i buy a 5d2 (or 5d3), you can guarantee i'm still taking my 7d (or 7d2) out into the field with a Great White Prime (if i could afford one) to shoot birds in good light.
same as if i had a 5d2 (or 5d3) and a 1d4 (or 1d3, 1d5). 5d2 goes to the indoor low-light and hiking for wide landscapes, 1d4 goes with the tele lens for sports.
horses for courses.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: UncleFester on July 15, 2011, 03:00:35 AM
I would think that a 5D with 7D autofocus would pretty much kill off the 7D. Right now the 7D is their most high-tech supermodel of the sub-1D line.

Although a 5D/7D model would quench some complaints. :)

not necessarily. has the 1d ever killed off the 1ds sales because it's got the same AF? if there's anything anyone agrees on around here, it's that the 5d2 did more to kill sales of the 1ds than the 1d ever did.

FF 1ds, best AF, decent (5fps) framerate Vs 1.3x 1d, best AF, best (10fps) framerate.
Go down a rung.
FF 5d3, 2nd best (19pt) af, not as good (3.9fps) framerate Vs 1.6x 7d, 2nd best (19pt) af, 2nd best (8fps) framerate.

Sure, i'd be tempted by a 5d3, FF with ~25-30mp, 19pt AF, ~4fps.
but it'll be a lot more expensive than the 7d (or 7d2), which will have higher noise, aps-c, 8fps, etc.
even if i buy a 5d2 (or 5d3), you can guarantee i'm still taking my 7d (or 7d2) out into the field with a Great White Prime (if i could afford one) to shoot birds in good light.
same as if i had a 5d2 (or 5d3) and a 1d4 (or 1d3, 1d5). 5d2 goes to the indoor low-light and hiking for wide landscapes, 1d4 goes with the tele lens for sports.
horses for courses.

Well, the 5D2 sales killing off some 1Ds makes sense. Same IQ for shooting weddings at a 3rd of the price?  The 5D2 can do it! But it can't hit a moving object well and the 7D can.
But I should have made my statement more clear: If the 5d picks up the 7d auto focus with a even just a 5fps rate (like the 1ds) there is not much sense in carrying around a 7d. Unless, however, the 7Ds IQ improves dramatically, which I doubt will happen anytime soon.

Then the price point. My thoughts is there is a point in amateur or weekend-pro photography where there is,are diminishing returns (I actually spoke with a pro about this) and it seems to be around $2500 usd. So, anything beyond that, for a least me anyway, would have to be freakin' fantastic and again negate the need for a 7D back-up. So, if MY theory holds, price between a new 7D and 5D will be as close again. Not a huge jump like going from 5d to 1D, 1D to 1Ds.

Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Edwin Herdman on July 15, 2011, 09:25:34 PM
The Mark III refresh being postponed for a 1D Mark V doesn't really make sense to me because, even with a 7D-like (or far better) AF sensor, I'd guess it'll still likely be a far cry from the Mark V's.  The old 39 point sensor of the 1D Mark II / N strikes me as possibly being, even today, an upgrade from the relatively simple AF sensor of the 5D Mark II.

And the 7D being mentioned - well, the 7D having a much better AF sensor than the 5D hasn't been seen to prevent Canon from releasing it out of deference to the Mark II.  Sometimes it's just tech's time to go.

My personal thought is that these lines should be regarded and released separately, as pros require.  The 1.3x crop factor sounds somewhat useful for sports photographers and possibly PJs, but so is the 1.6x crop (on the other hand that 1.3x crop seems to have significantly better DR and ISO than even the best APS-C crop camera, which would tip the balance for many pros).  On the other hand, having the best-est and most up-to-date-est DSLR be a 1.3x crop instead of a FF is a significant drawback for studio photographers.  It's not just DR or burst speed, but it's a mix of these things and more.  Plus, the direct access controls of the 1D series bodies would be very welcome in challenging situations.
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: shorthand on July 18, 2011, 01:23:12 PM
Along these lines, a new Wi-Fi module from Canon just cleared the FCC at the end of June. Interestingly, look at the size - its perfectly sized to be a small part of a pro-sized DSLR.

Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on July 18, 2011, 03:20:49 PM
Along these lines, a new Wi-Fi module from Canon just cleared the FCC at the end of June. Interestingly, look at the size - its perfectly sized to be a small part of a pro-sized DSLR.

  • Entire filing: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=196165&fcc_id=%27AZDBM70659%27 (https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=196165&fcc_id=%27AZDBM70659%27)
  • Picture of Wi-Fi module: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=1491896 (https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=1491896)

The link is to a letter sayings It will be only equipped in a "Medical Device" and for indoor use only.

Why would anyone remotely think its for a camera??
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: chuckjr on July 18, 2011, 05:45:23 PM
Let's face it, how many of us own DSLRs we bought more than two years ago?
Maybe those early ($8k a pop) adopters of the 1Ds are using three year old bodies but since then so much has changed that Canon has to make an effort to differentiate the bodies and make the super pro level camera worth the extra $3-$5K over the 5D (or equivalent full frame).
Title: Re: 1D Mark V [CR1]
Post by: shorthand on July 18, 2011, 06:08:15 PM
I didn't have time to read the full filing ... so definitely scratch that "insight".

I was actually looking for a filing on a new RF flash controller from Canon - nothing yet on that front, which means that they're either cutting it close or won't be shipping anything until October at the earliest.