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Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Video => Topic started by: fodnarbodnar on January 17, 2013, 11:23:20 PM

Title: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: fodnarbodnar on January 17, 2013, 11:23:20 PM
Hey guys I've seen other threads about this but no updates really in a couple week with any new valuable information. So I'm currently shooting on a T2i of my own but often renting out either 5D mkii's or mkii's even now, (I'm an independent filmmaker) and I finally have the cash on hand to upgrade my own camera so I don't have to spend the money on rentals. If i had the money i'd be getting a mkiii but money is tight snd i shoot with sigma lenses so slong with upgrading my body i need to upgrade my glass as well. Now I know the mkii is a workforce and still capable of great things especially when I can pick up the 5Dv2 moire filter to eliminate that issue. But with the arrival of the 6D I'm kind of torn. I know that the moire on this is even worse but I'm worried if I pick up a mkii now while they're cheap, i could miss out on something great in the 6D with it having the new processor and even higher iso capabilities. Any thoughts?

Again if money wasn't an issue I know the mkiii would be the obvious Answer but 3500 clams is a lot when adding the cost of lenses and what not.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: fodnarbodnar on January 17, 2013, 11:39:56 PM
Let me also add I do some still photography as well on the side, and part of the reason I'm considering the 6d at all is because what if there is a moir filter released for that possibly... That completely changes everything...
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: beansauce on January 17, 2013, 11:56:16 PM
The 5D2 has less moire than the 6D, with the 5D3 providing the best video quality. That said, the 5D2 is unbeatable considering price, build, and overall value. Personally, the 5D3 can be skipped until the 5D4 is released if you are a 5D2 user. The AF is the largest differentiating factor of the 5D3 compared to the 5D2, with the 6D serving as almost a joke in Canon's lineup... even though the IQ is great, the rest of the camera falls apart and destroys any appeal as an option, even if the current offering at b+h is only $100 more than the 5D2 kit.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: verysimplejason on January 18, 2013, 02:03:58 AM
"even though the IQ is great, the rest of the camera falls apart and destroys any appeal as an option, even if the current offering at b+h is only $100 more than the 5D2 kit."

Let me see... AF? better than 5D2, less than 5D3.  @$1000 less, this is understandable.  Shutter speed, 1/4000, this is good enough for most people.  It has ISO 50 for those moments there's too much light or you can just plug-in an ND filter.  IQ (ISO, DR, Color), comparable to 1DX, better than 5D3, a lot better than 5D2 especially in terms of ISO performance.  This is actually a bargain if you ask me.  WIFI, GPS, not so important depending on the person using it.  So what's the gripe?  WTH, some wedding photogs even prefer 6D than 5D3 when getting pictures in low-light (flash problem).  @only $100 more than the 5D2 kit, who doesn't want it?  For video, 5D3 is still a lot better or just get a video camera.  Soon, just as 5D2, there will be a moire filter that will be provided for 6D.  Would you still prefer your 5D2 over 6D?  If you really hate 6D, then by all means get a 5D3 or just get a 5D2 and be content but please give facts when dissuading somebody else from buying a 6D.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: fodnarbodnar on January 18, 2013, 02:23:23 AM
Yeah I hear ya I know the 6d has massive IQ and ISO improvements that's why I'm in a bind. My only real issue is i suppose, there hasn't been a moire filter released since the two for the 5d mkii and the 7d, and since they fixed the moire issue with the mkiii with the new OLPF, is there really going to be a moire filter for the 6d? I know people with 60d's are still waiting for one... That is honestly the only thing holding me back is the moire(because while I do some still work, my focus is video)
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: JonS on January 18, 2013, 02:44:35 AM
I have just been contemplating that particular choice, and I went for the 5D II.

What tipped it? - partly I think the fact that Canon rate the 5DII as 'Platinum' level camera and the 6D as a 'Silver' level camera for CPS membership.

I am not a member - dont have enough stuff yet (how do I put the sad smiley in here?), but to me it says quite a lot about what Canon think of these 2 in terms of professional use.....Just my 2 cents, as the guys across the pond say.

jon
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: ManixLiquid on January 21, 2013, 07:15:18 AM
I tried the VAF-5D2b filter on the 6D. While most of the moire is gone (you have to set the sharpness at -4 when shooting), the video quality is "soft". If you try to add sharpness in post, the moire comes back. The few tests I did, the 6D is better for indoor shooting. Outdoor is more difficult. I can't get details for wide shots (background subjects appear too soft in my opinion).
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: verysimplejason on January 23, 2013, 01:02:53 AM
I have just been contemplating that particular choice, and I went for the 5D II.

What tipped it? - partly I think the fact that Canon rate the 5DII as 'Platinum' level camera and the 6D as a 'Silver' level camera for CPS membership.

I am not a member - dont have enough stuff yet (how do I put the sad smiley in here?), but to me it says quite a lot about what Canon think of these 2 in terms of professional use.....Just my 2 cents, as the guys across the pond say.

jon

It seems 6D is on the same level as 5D3 and 5D2 at least on points...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1257832 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1257832)
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Niterider on January 23, 2013, 01:44:57 AM
Hey guys I've seen other threads about this but no updates really in a couple week with any new valuable information. So I'm currently shooting on a T2i of my own but often renting out either 5D mkii's or mkii's even now, (I'm an independent filmmaker) and I finally have the cash on hand to upgrade my own camera so I don't have to spend the money on rentals. If i had the money i'd be getting a mkiii but money is tight snd i shoot with sigma lenses so slong with upgrading my body i need to upgrade my glass as well. Now I know the mkii is a workforce and still capable of great things especially when I can pick up the 5Dv2 moire filter to eliminate that issue. But with the arrival of the 6D I'm kind of torn. I know that the moire on this is even worse but I'm worried if I pick up a mkii now while they're cheap, i could miss out on something great in the 6D with it having the new processor and even higher iso capabilities. Any thoughts?

Again if money wasn't an issue I know the mkiii would be the obvious Answer but 3500 clams is a lot when adding the cost of lenses and what not.

If you are in independent film maker and thus use a DSLR primarily for video work, don't forget that Magic Lantern works perfectly on the 5d mark ii. The 6d doesnt have ML yet. My recommendation is definitely the 5d mark ii. It has been the workhorse of countless videographers and photographers for years.

Plus at the prices it has been going at, its a bargain for how good of a camera it is.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: dstppy on January 23, 2013, 01:45:01 AM
One option the 6D & Mk3 have is Tight AND Wide MFA - a great feature for dialing in Zooms, vs primes.

"I'm switching to Nikon" doesn't even have that :)
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Marsu42 on January 23, 2013, 03:15:24 AM
I know that the moire on this is even worse but I'm worried if I pick up a mkii now while they're cheap, i could miss out on something great in the 6D with it having the new processor and even higher iso capabilities. Any thoughts?
I don't know about moiré/video because I shoot stills, but there are many less visible improvements of the 6d over the 5d2 while the only regressions are the missing joystick, only 1/4000 shutter & 1/180 x-sync & only 100k shutter rating.

The good news: The 6d will also run Magic Lantern shortly (there are working test versions right now) :-)

Read this for the improvements of the 6d: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0)
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: RLPhoto on January 23, 2013, 06:19:44 AM
5D2 or wait until the 6D is sub 1700$. It's too expensive for what it is.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: verysimplejason on January 24, 2013, 04:53:33 AM
I tried the VAF-5D2b filter on the 6D. While most of the moire is gone (you have to set the sharpness at -4 when shooting), the video quality is "soft". If you try to add sharpness in post, the moire comes back. The few tests I did, the 6D is better for indoor shooting. Outdoor is more difficult. I can't get details for wide shots (background subjects appear too soft in my opinion).

That's made for 5D2.  6D's sensor is different thus it will require a different filter.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: fodnarbodnar on January 25, 2013, 12:45:26 AM
Who knows if they're even going to make a filter for the 6D though because they haven't produced one for any bodies other than 7D and 5D2.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: skullyspice on January 25, 2013, 01:30:58 AM
6D. always go with newer technology.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: ManixLiquid on January 25, 2013, 07:24:06 AM
Who knows if they're even going to make a filter for the 6D though because they haven't produced one for any bodies other than 7D and 5D2.

I got an email from Mosaic Engineering. They working on the filter on the 6D.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Dukinald on January 25, 2013, 09:02:54 AM
Did the 6d get the auto focus functionality with STM lenses like the T4i ?

Just waiting for the price to come down some more  and will take the plunge.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 25, 2013, 09:32:31 AM
I cannot speak from the videographer end (I do shoot DSLR video, but it is not my focus), but after having shot my first business event (primarily stills) with my new 6D along with my 5DII last night, I would gladly exchange my 5DMKII for a second 6D today.

1)  Coming out of standby.  When I shoot events, I keep the camera(s) on and let them sleep.  The 6D is (in my unscientific testing) somewhere between 2-3 times faster in coming out of sleep mode.  The 5DII was noticeably slower.  This is a big deal when a crucial shot in unfolding and you are waiting for your camera to come alive.

2)  Snappier autofocus and less shutter lag.  I actually had the snappier lens on the 5DII (135L) vs. the Tamron 24-70 VC on the 6D), but while the 135L focuses faster, I still felt my overall focus to capture time was better with the 6D.  I had never really known the shutter lag of the 5DII until I shot my 6D.  It seems to snap while you are still thinking about snapping.

3)  ISO performance.  I was shooting in 2500-3200 range most of the evening.  The noise level and overall IQ is noticeably superior in the 6D, not to mention the color is superior.

For the kind of work I do (events, weddings, portraiture, then fine art/landscapes), the 6D promises to be a great performer.  I am really excited about it.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: aalbert on January 25, 2013, 10:48:07 AM
+1 TWI
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Sporgon on January 25, 2013, 11:26:51 AM
@ Dustin, have you got enough info to give an opinion of the 6D data at low ISO ( specifically 100 ) compared with the 5D ? Colleagues who have the 5D mk3 have referred to the more film- like qualities of this model compared with the Mk 2 and 1Ds Mk 3. I wondered if you are seeing anything like that yourself with the 6D.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 25, 2013, 05:29:05 PM
@ Dustin, have you got enough info to give an opinion of the 6D data at low ISO ( specifically 100 ) compared with the 5D ? Colleagues who have the 5D mk3 have referred to the more film- like qualities of this model compared with the Mk 2 and 1Ds Mk 3. I wondered if you are seeing anything like that yourself with the 6D.

I've only been using it for a few days, but coming from a 5DII I have found images noticeably better to my eye.  Smoother color, tighter detail.  I am very impressed with the image quality for stills.

I haven't personally used the MKIII, so I cannot comment on how it compares there, but I have read that the noise levels are superior even to the MKIII.  As far as image quality goes, the 6D is an exceptional camera and produces noticeably superior images to the 5DMKII.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 25, 2013, 05:46:34 PM
Here's a very simple, around the house image that I can tell a difference with (this is shot with a 6D/Tamron 24-70mm VC before AFMA, which I did on my whole kit today).

The second image is about a 100% crop that shows both fine detail and color graduation on skin tones.  This is ISO 800.  I primarily shot a business event yesterday evening at ISO 2500 and saw no need for noise reduction.  Images look flawless.

Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 25, 2013, 05:51:36 PM
6D. always go with newer technology.

Not always.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 26, 2013, 07:42:20 PM
Power went out during my son's birthday tonight and so I had to crank the ISO to 5000 and shoot with ambient light.  This shot is straight out of camera, ISO 5000, 1/50th second shutter speed at 70mm (Tamron 24-70mm VC):

(Even at 100% the grain looks like about ISO 800 a generation ago)

Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: verysimplejason on January 27, 2013, 07:49:09 PM
Power went out during my son's birthday tonight and so I had to crank the ISO to 5000 and shoot with ambient light.  This shot is straight out of camera, ISO 5000, 1/50th second shutter speed at 70mm (Tamron 24-70mm VC):

(Even at 100% the grain looks like about ISO 800 a generation ago)

Nice pic. Im still trying to save for 6d. Your 24-70 seems a very nice lens.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 28, 2013, 08:31:22 AM
Power went out during my son's birthday tonight and so I had to crank the ISO to 5000 and shoot with ambient light.  This shot is straight out of camera, ISO 5000, 1/50th second shutter speed at 70mm (Tamron 24-70mm VC):

(Even at 100% the grain looks like about ISO 800 a generation ago)

Nice pic. Im still trying to save for 6d. Your 24-70 seems a very nice lens.

6D is a great camera.  It is popular with some to bash it without trying it, but other than a couple minor quirks I find it to be a great camera - it is my favorite that I have used so far.  By all accounts it is capable of as good of image quality as just about any Canon ever.

I have been really happy with the Tamron.  I have no problem recommending it.  I would recommend buying it from a reputable retailer that will let you exchange copies if necessary.  There seems to be some sample variation, particularly with early copies.  I felt my first copy was not entirely on spec, so I exchanged it for a second that I have exceptionally pleased with.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: emag on January 28, 2013, 01:15:10 PM
Who knows if they're even going to make a filter for the 6D though because they haven't produced one for any bodies other than 7D and 5D2.

Here 'tis:
http://store.mosaicengineering.com/VAF-6D-Moire-Aliasing-Filter_p_15.html (http://store.mosaicengineering.com/VAF-6D-Moire-Aliasing-Filter_p_15.html)
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Sporgon on January 28, 2013, 01:26:57 PM
@ Dustin, pic quality looks impressive. Keep the samples and info on the 6D coming. I'd like to see some 100 ISO shots in your usual style.

Also let us know how you feel about the build of the 6D as time goes on. I've had a look at one in my local prof store and if seems good, but, just like when you look at a car, it's not untill you own it that you find it's faults  :D

Personally I'd like Canon to introduce a 6Dv version - no wi fi and gps but a mag alloy top plate  :)
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Ew on January 28, 2013, 01:31:23 PM
Power went out during my son's birthday tonight and so I had to crank the ISO to 5000 and shoot with ambient light.  This shot is straight out of camera, ISO 5000, 1/50th second shutter speed at 70mm (Tamron 24-70mm VC):

(Even at 100% the grain looks like about ISO 800 a generation ago)

Nice pic. Im still trying to save for 6d. Your 24-70 seems a very nice lens.

6D is a great camera.  It is popular with some to bash it without trying it, but other than a couple minor quirks I find it to be a great camera - it is my favorite that I have used so far.  By all accounts it is capable of as good of image quality as just about any Canon ever.

I have been really happy with the Tamron.  I have no problem recommending it.  I would recommend buying it from a reputable retailer that will let you exchange copies if necessary.  There seems to be some sample variation, particularly with early copies.  I felt my first copy was not entirely on spec, so I exchanged it for a second that I have exceptionally pleased with.

Has anyone kept track of the serial number (ranges) of the returned / NG Tamron 24-70 VC ??
I'm wondering if we can get some sort of guideline of the range yo avoid.

Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Marsu42 on January 28, 2013, 03:12:44 PM
Personally I'd like Canon to introduce a 6Dv version - no wi fi and gps but a mag alloy top plate  :)

For me a 6Drts-af please, with built-in rt flash master, swivel screen and 11 pt true crosspoint af @f2.8 - *then* I'm more likely to consider the €2000 price is justified...
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 28, 2013, 04:25:24 PM
@ Dustin, pic quality looks impressive. Keep the samples and info on the 6D coming. I'd like to see some 100 ISO shots in your usual style.

Also let us know how you feel about the build of the 6D as time goes on. I've had a look at one in my local prof store and if seems good, but, just like when you look at a car, it's not untill you own it that you find it's faults  :D

Personally I'd like Canon to introduce a 6Dv version - no wi fi and gps but a mag alloy top plate  :)

I haven't had time to do a lot of "typical" shooting since I have gotten it.  I've shot a couple of events (which is good, because it is paying work), but my shooting otherwise has been limited to "around the house" kind of stuff.  Here is one that I took today of the family cat, ISO 1000.  I shoot RAW, but did no custom settings.  The only thing I have done here is a +56 in LR4 "Shadows" to pull open the shadows a bit because of shooting into a shadowed area.  The 100% image is incredibly clean.  I'm impressed with its improved ability to retain detail in the shadows without banding or noise.  Lens is the Tamron
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Sporgon on January 28, 2013, 04:34:42 PM
That does look incredibly good for 1000 ISO

So much for all the b*** ***t about Canon using outdated sensor technology.

I note your cat is accustomed to the same degree of luxury that my wife provides for hers  ;D
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 28, 2013, 04:45:39 PM
That does look incredibly good for 1000 ISO

So much for all the b*** ***t about Canon using outdated sensor technology.

I note your cat is accustomed to the same degree of luxury that my wife provides for hers  ;D

I uploaded a fairly large image so that it could be examined closely (3000 pixels long end).  If someone were to tell me that this image was ISO 100-200, I would believe them.

But even at high ISO (5000+) where there is some grain, it is so smooth and film like that it is in no displeasing to my eye, and I'm pretty paranoid about clean images.  I actually have a friend in Toronto that also just got a 6D who said this: "I bought the 6D a few weeks ago and very happy with it! One thing I am really loving is the quality of grain(noise) in high iso shots (12800 and over) - really film like!"
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Sporgon on January 28, 2013, 05:03:53 PM
@ Dustin, didn't twig you're uploaded such a big file. I've just downloaded it on my iMac and opened it in Photoshop, and yes, I revise my comments. It's good for any ISO ! The blanket and dark background would be very susceptible to noise as well. That is really quite astonishing, I'm going to send the file to my partner in B-P.

Looks like I'm gonna have to raid the bank account........ :)
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: Marsu42 on January 28, 2013, 05:13:06 PM
So much for all the b*** ***t about Canon using outdated sensor technology.

You're confusing "outdated" with "bad": yes, Canon is behind the competition in sensor design (low iso sharpness, shadow noise, mp & dr) and no, that doesn't mean that Canon sensors cannot be an appropriate tool for most jobs - actually even my 60d is.
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on January 31, 2013, 10:05:17 AM
Here's a single exposure RAW shot taken yesterday and processed normal workflow - this is all in LR4.  I have definitely found that there is less banding when pulling up shadow detail and the graduation to highlights is also smoother compared to 5DII.

I do use HDR occasionally when shooting tough lighting scenes, but I have found already that there is enough dynamic range with the 6D that HDR shows little overall improvement.  I'm impressed:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8096/8432840692_d4cbdcc021_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8432840692/)
Road to Perdition (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8432840692/#) by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott (http://www.flickr.com/people/thousandwordimages/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Should I go with a 6D or a Mkii while they're cheap
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on February 05, 2013, 04:17:39 PM
http://www.dustinabbott.net/2013/02/i-believe-i-can-fly/ (http://www.dustinabbott.net/2013/02/i-believe-i-can-fly/)

To able to do this all myself with the razor thin depth of field of the 135L is pretty amazing.  I would have had a nightmare trying to execute this concept with my 5DII