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Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: zrz2005101 on January 31, 2013, 04:14:23 AM

Title: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: zrz2005101 on January 31, 2013, 04:14:23 AM
First of all, THE important thing is this is mainly for sports (hockey-often, basketball and volley ball- sometimes, football and soccer-rarely) Will use 2470, 70200 and new Sigma 120-300 when it comes out. Currently I use the 1Dmk3 and 1Dsmk3 with the 2470 and 70200 and find the ISO fairly hard to push over 3200, even at 3200 they are not great. Previously I had a 1D4 but it was sold so I'm looking to get the 5D3 (never used it before) or the 1D4 back, advices?
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: verysimplejason on January 31, 2013, 04:39:15 AM
5DMK3 since you don't have any problem regarding the lens focal length but is having problem with ISO.  5D3 is better in ISO performance than 1DSMK3 by at least one or two stops.  1D4 is much worse than 1DSMK3 in ISO performance.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: expatinasia on January 31, 2013, 04:47:53 AM
You really need to think about your need for high ISO vs your need for FPS.

I have a friend who has the 1DX and 5D Mark III and he won't touch sports with the 5D Mark III.

You may want to consider saving a bit and getting the 1D X or waiting to see if announcement about the 7D Mark II comes out.

The 1D Mark IV does have a lot of benefits over the 5D Mark III.

How important is weather sealing and FPS to you?
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: zrz2005101 on January 31, 2013, 04:52:10 AM
Well with 70200 on the 1DMK3 it is fairly hard to get to the goalkeeper on the opposite team and it is equivalent to 260mm. If I use the new 120-300 on the 5DMK3 I would expect to have  the same problem(but since it has twice the MP on the 1DMK3 I think cropping could come into play). FPS is another concern I should have mentioned because the 5 FPS on the 1DsMK3 is not great, and I often find the need to have a higher FPS. I can sometimes manage it, but I find an increase of FPS a big +
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: zrz2005101 on January 31, 2013, 04:56:13 AM
You really need to think about your need for high ISO vs your need for FPS.

I have a friend who has the 1DX and 5D Mark III and he won't touch sports with the 5D Mark III.

You may want to consider saving a bit and getting the 1D X or waiting to see if announcement about the 7D Mark II comes out.

The 1D Mark IV does have a lot of benefits over the 5D Mark III.

How important is weather sealing and FPS to you?

Weather seal not too much, as I rarely shoot football and soccer, which are outdoor sports. FPS as I have mentioned is nice to have. AF is the most important thing as I find the 1DMK4 overpowers the 1D/sMK3 but I have not yet tried the 5D3 so it's blank there. The 1Dx is the way to go but I am really in need to replace the 1DsMK3 as the buffer is horrible, it runs out after like 10 shoots causing me to sometimes miss the moment, and I use an Extreme 90MB/s card on that.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: M.ST on January 31, 2013, 05:18:26 AM
The 5D Mark III is to slow, but the AF system is a step over the 1D Mark IV AF system. Sometimes in AI Servo mode under komplex lightining conditions the 5D Mark III AF can´t track the subject.

I highly recommend the 1D X for sports.

If you want go a cheaper way buy the 1D Mark IV (for professional use) instead or wait for the 7D Mark II. The 7D Mark II prototype in the field is very fast, but the AF system can´t reach the 1D X AF-system.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: rpt on January 31, 2013, 05:42:57 AM
I agree with folks here. 1DX or wait for 7D2. Like you and expat said, you will need more than 6fps that the 5D3 gives you. Also the number of shots the buffer holds depends on whether you are shooting RAW or JPG. I am guessing RAW... The 1DX has both slots as CF so that helps - unlike the 5D3.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: smithy on January 31, 2013, 06:33:38 AM
Between the 5D3 and the 1D4, with the usage being purely sports, I'd suggest the 1D4.  I own the 5D3, and I'd say it's pretty average for sports.  I've used it to shoot triathlons and the autofocus sometimes seems to struggle a bit, even after tweaking the AF modes.  I actually think my 40D may have been a little bit better, although nothing on paper would support this observation.

The 1D4 was built for sports.  While it would be nice to go out and buy a 1DX, I realise that there may be financial reasons restricting this option (there certainly are for me), and you could probably pick up two used 1D4 bodies for the price of a new 1DX.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: pwp on January 31, 2013, 07:31:19 AM
I have 1D4 bodies plus a 5D3. And I shoot sports. Utterly without a moments hesitation, leave the 5D3 at home and trust your 1D4. It's a fabulous sports camera, bettered by only one other, the remarkable 1DX.

I also have a semi-retired 1D Mk2n which I very occasionally wheel out if the conditions are suitable (= bright...) and relish it's legendary servo AF and great handling. I'd even use this lovely old brick ahead of the 5D3 for sports.

-PW
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: ewg963 on January 31, 2013, 07:37:07 AM
You really need to think about your need for high ISO vs your need for FPS.

I have a friend who has the 1DX and 5D Mark III and he won't touch sports with the 5D Mark III.

You may want to consider saving a bit and getting the 1D X or waiting to see if announcement about the 7D Mark II comes out.

The 1D Mark IV does have a lot of benefits over the 5D Mark III.

How important is weather sealing and FPS to you?
+1
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: Studio1930 on January 31, 2013, 08:49:03 AM
5D3 for sports?  Not if you can use something better like a 1D4 or 1DX.  I sold my 1Ds3 to buy the 1DX and I still own the 1D4.  I would not use a 5D3 for sports when these other two cameras are out there.  The 1D4 will perform much better than the 5D3 for sports.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: Studio1930 on January 31, 2013, 08:50:47 AM
  1D4 is much worse than 1DSMK3 in ISO performance.

Um, no it is not.  I owned both at the same time and I can tell you that the 1D4 is just a bit better than the 1Ds3 once you get above ISO400.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: RLPhoto on January 31, 2013, 09:28:23 AM
Nothing touches a 1D camera for sports. Without a doubt the 1D4 is better but the 5D3 can do AF just as good but alas, too slow FPS.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: Apop on January 31, 2013, 10:43:02 AM
Hi,

I moved from a d800 and 200-400 towards canon for wildlife photography,

I also had a lot of doubts between the 5dIII and 1d mk iv

It started with coming down from 36 mp to something lower and lose the cropping ability i had,
I had asked some questions in the forums online about auto focus performance , mixed opinions on that!

Some say the 5dIII auto focus is MUCH much better, others say the 1dmkiv is better (especially in driving the bigger lenses focus motor), it came from people who all had really nice galleries and owned both bodies..., and I interpreted it as : It will probably be close between the 5dIII and 1D Mkiv , while the 1dx will be in a totally different league,

In the end it was fps ruggedness and price that moved me towards the 1d mkiv.
Also it was pointed out that the 1div can drive lenses ( such as 500 f4 ) faster.
Here it was 2400 for the 1dmkiv in really nice condition, a 5dIII is 2800 and then you need a grip with extra battery, so a price difference of like 600+ euros...

So far i have not regretted it at all, the focus feels snappier then on the d800(and that had great auto focus for my standrds) , and the fps is just insane.... from 4fps (6 with grip and dx mode ) in the d800 to 10 is a huge difference.

The only thing that i dislike about cameras is the buffer (when shooting raw).... , 3-4 seconds and its full
I would like to see the nikon d4 buffer on all cameras ( ram is so cheap?)

Also i am not sure yet on which 19 cross type focus points are used on the 1dmkiv ( I currently testing center focus with surrounding or 45 expansion), not sure how much accuracy is lost in that mode (f4 lenses only utilize 19 cross types vs 39 for 2.8 lenses), but the focus on a f4 lens, even with 1.4 converter seems to be really quick for tracking birds ( only tested it on birds so far)


So in general: I would go for the mkiv, and wait for the price of the 5d to come down more, or a higher megapixel camera from canon in the future :)

The 5d3 might be better at higher ISO, but some people reviewed the images (cropped the 5dIII) to get the same crop factor, and they were quite close there.... with a bit more detail in the images of the 1d MKIV
( link : http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2012/04/03/canon-5d-mark-iii-vs-1d-mark-iv-high-iso/ (http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2012/04/03/canon-5d-mark-iii-vs-1d-mark-iv-high-iso/) )



I think to someone who shoots sports it should be a 'no brainer' ! , with hindsight I myself don't really understand why i had doubts ( for wildlife) , other then that i came from the nikon camp and didn't know anything about the 1div other then some useless snapshort comparisons:p

10fps+1.3 crop factor , good battery life, a body that feels like you can use it as a hammer ,
Cannot go wrong with it :D

Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: enice128 on January 31, 2013, 11:10:50 AM
The main question that i have to ask u is since u shoot sports, why did u sell the 1D IV? I recently traded in my 7D for an excellent 1D IV & i havent looked back since! Canon's 1D series go hand in hand w shooting sports. In fact al the pro shooters like SI photographers were using this camera until the 1DX recently released pushing their ISO way up there. I heard that the 1D III had poor auto focusing which is where the IV shines, as well as high ISO capabilities. Of course the 1DX is the way to go IF u can afford it.....i know i can't. Plus the 1DX is FF so im also tapped out financially when it comes to anything larger than my 70-200 2.8 II. So i still enjoy the crop factor which is 1.3 compared to 1.6 from my old 7D. So im losing a bit of reach but ill take it w the IV's benefits. Either rob a bank & grab the 1DX or get ur old 1D IV back!!!
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: Crapking on January 31, 2013, 11:37:43 AM
Another factor not yet mentioned-any need to shoot video?  I use all three bodies, 1D-X, 1DIV and 5d3 with the 5d3 being used for video (less aliasing, easier controls).
As for strict comparison, there are actually pro/con for each, but overall user friendly of 1D body is hard to beat. Post -production wise, in my hands, MP/color rendering/DOF of FF 5d is slightly better, but reach/FPS trump those minimal advantages.
When on assignment alone with choice of bodies, I obviously take 1D-X and then the 1DIV....
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: RMC33 on January 31, 2013, 12:16:41 PM
5d3 works just fine for sports. I keep a wider lens on it and have no tracking/focus issues at all. 1Dx is nice (I get to use one now and again and plan on buying) but my 7D does just fine for 95% of my shots. The only reason I want a 1Dx is night skiing/snowboarding is a pain with the 7D as is any indoor. I keep a 8-15 f4 fish or 16-35 UWA on my 5dMK3 and on high speed have yet to miss a shot I want. Usually have a 70-200 2.8 on my 7d or longer depending on my location.

The most important thing.. rather then body or lens .. is knowing your sport inside and out. Where your subject will be at what time and the best location to get the shot. Knowing what base the play will be in baseball, seeing any advantage during a power play, sitting under the net on one end of a basketball court and using a UWA or Fish to capture that game changing dunk or that one point in the course that everyone has had trouble with but you know one skier is going to nail the turn and give you "that shot".
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 31, 2013, 12:41:55 PM
5DMK3 since you don't have any problem regarding the lens focal length but is having problem with ISO.  5D3 is better in ISO performance than 1DSMK3 by at least one or two stops.  1D4 is much worse than 1DSMK3 in ISO performance.

What?  The 1D4 is way better in ISO performance than the 1Ds Mark III.  Where in the world did you get this?
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: bdunbar79 on January 31, 2013, 12:43:26 PM
For sports, I'd definitely use the 1D4 over the 5D3. 
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: zrz2005101 on January 31, 2013, 01:54:21 PM
The main question that i have to ask u is since u shoot sports, why did u sell the 1D IV? I recently traded in my 7D for an excellent 1D IV & i havent looked back since! Canon's 1D series go hand in hand w shooting sports. In fact al the pro shooters like SI photographers were using this camera until the 1DX recently released pushing their ISO way up there. I heard that the 1D III had poor auto focusing which is where the IV shines, as well as high ISO capabilities. Of course the 1DX is the way to go IF u can afford it.....i know i can't. Plus the 1DX is FF so im also tapped out financially when it comes to anything larger than my 70-200 2.8 II. So i still enjoy the crop factor which is 1.3 compared to 1.6 from my old 7D. So im losing a bit of reach but ill take it w the IV's benefits. Either rob a bank & grab the 1DX or get ur old 1D IV back!!!

I had the 1DIV in 2010 but I switched to landscape so it was sold to fund my 1DsMK3, but I am coming back to sports and there are two new cameras out there that I have not yet used. 5D3 and 1Dx. I tried the 1Dx and it was fantastic, but the price of it is keeping me away now. Because I want to upgrade my lenses as well.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: zrz2005101 on January 31, 2013, 01:56:30 PM
Another factor not yet mentioned-any need to shoot video?  I use all three bodies, 1D-X, 1DIV and 5d3 with the 5d3 being used for video (less aliasing, easier controls).
As for strict comparison, there are actually pro/con for each, but overall user friendly of 1D body is hard to beat. Post -production wise, in my hands, MP/color rendering/DOF of FF 5d is slightly better, but reach/FPS trump those minimal advantages.
When on assignment alone with choice of bodies, I obviously take 1D-X and then the 1DIV....

NO I do not do any video, if at all it will probably just be recording names of performers if I go to shoot performances
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: zrz2005101 on January 31, 2013, 02:04:31 PM
5d3 works just fine for sports. I keep a wider lens on it and have no tracking/focus issues at all. 1Dx is nice (I get to use one now and again and plan on buying) but my 7D does just fine for 95% of my shots. The only reason I want a 1Dx is night skiing/snowboarding is a pain with the 7D as is any indoor. I keep a 8-15 f4 fish or 16-35 UWA on my 5dMK3 and on high speed have yet to miss a shot I want. Usually have a 70-200 2.8 on my 7d or longer depending on my location.

The most important thing.. rather then body or lens .. is knowing your sport inside and out. Where your subject will be at what time and the best location to get the shot. Knowing what base the play will be in baseball, seeing any advantage during a power play, sitting under the net on one end of a basketball court and using a UWA or Fish to capture that game changing dunk or that one point in the course that everyone has had trouble with but you know one skier is going to nail the turn and give you "that shot".

Note on the 7D... I have the 7D and I've heard some people say it's AF is better than even the 1DMK3, that is simply not true. I tried basically every AF combination on it and it just does not give as much keepers as 1DMK3. So if I were to go down the 1 and 5series to a 7, the MKII better be damn good in its AF area. Also the high ISO is just a pain to deal with. I know that knowing the sport I am shooting does benefit me;however, I do like AI servo and track players rather than focus trap at a given point.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: RMC33 on January 31, 2013, 02:46:17 PM
5d3 works just fine for sports. I keep a wider lens on it and have no tracking/focus issues at all. 1Dx is nice (I get to use one now and again and plan on buying) but my 7D does just fine for 95% of my shots. The only reason I want a 1Dx is night skiing/snowboarding is a pain with the 7D as is any indoor. I keep a 8-15 f4 fish or 16-35 UWA on my 5dMK3 and on high speed have yet to miss a shot I want. Usually have a 70-200 2.8 on my 7d or longer depending on my location.

The most important thing.. rather then body or lens .. is knowing your sport inside and out. Where your subject will be at what time and the best location to get the shot. Knowing what base the play will be in baseball, seeing any advantage during a power play, sitting under the net on one end of a basketball court and using a UWA or Fish to capture that game changing dunk or that one point in the course that everyone has had trouble with but you know one skier is going to nail the turn and give you "that shot".

Note on the 7D... I have the 7D and I've heard some people say it's AF is better than even the 1DMK3, that is simply not true. I tried basically every AF combination on it and it just does not give as much keepers as 1DMK3. So if I were to go down the 1 and 5series to a 7, the MKII better be damn good in its AF area. Also the high ISO is just a pain to deal with. I know that knowing the sport I am shooting does benefit me;however, I do like AI servo and track players rather than focus trap at a given point.

I get a 80% keep rate with my 7D shooting skiing/snowboarding, Kayaking, Kiteboarding and some College Level Baseball/Basketball/Football. Not having used a 1DMK3 I can't compare but will say the noise on the 7D past a point makes it useless which is where I swap in a 5DMK3. I had the same issue before I sat down and learned how the tracking and servo mode worked on my 7D for different types of motion and subject matter. Now that I know I have custom profiles saved to my C1/2/3 on the dial for specific situations for easy changing on the fly and can go from keeping focus on a subject for half-pipe events to almost instant focus subject change for boarder/skier cross. My lens selection is a huge part what I do as well, since I am usually static. I use the focus preset a lot on my 200 f/2 and 400 f/2.8 MKII too when I know my subjects will be in two locations that I can get the images I want and will work for my client.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: rlarsen on February 15, 2013, 04:57:56 AM
I've never used a 1-DMK lV but my 5D MK lll bodies are great for sports. Great image quality and very impressive high ISO.

For me 6 frames per second is fine. Over the years I've used slower motordrives and still got the job done. Think about pros using strobes for basketball and hockey. Three second recycle time.

If you have piles of money get the 1 DX.  Rent or borrow cameras and do your own tests.

The 5D MK lll is a very sweet camera. The best I've ever used.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: nicku on February 15, 2013, 06:24:37 AM
The 5D Mark III is to slow, but the AF system is a step over the 1D Mark IV AF system. Sometimes in AI Servo mode under komplex lightining conditions the 5D Mark III AF can´t track the subject.

I highly recommend the 1D X for sports.

If you want go a cheaper way buy the 1D Mark IV (for professional use) instead or wait for the 7D Mark II. The 7D Mark II prototype in the field is very fast, but the AF system can´t reach the 1D X AF-system.

Hmmm, you know something that we don't ?????
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: bdunbar79 on February 16, 2013, 02:53:45 PM
5d3 works just fine for sports. I keep a wider lens on it and have no tracking/focus issues at all. 1Dx is nice (I get to use one now and again and plan on buying) but my 7D does just fine for 95% of my shots. The only reason I want a 1Dx is night skiing/snowboarding is a pain with the 7D as is any indoor. I keep a 8-15 f4 fish or 16-35 UWA on my 5dMK3 and on high speed have yet to miss a shot I want. Usually have a 70-200 2.8 on my 7d or longer depending on my location.

The most important thing.. rather then body or lens .. is knowing your sport inside and out. Where your subject will be at what time and the best location to get the shot. Knowing what base the play will be in baseball, seeing any advantage during a power play, sitting under the net on one end of a basketball court and using a UWA or Fish to capture that game changing dunk or that one point in the course that everyone has had trouble with but you know one skier is going to nail the turn and give you "that shot".

Note on the 7D... I have the 7D and I've heard some people say it's AF is better than even the 1DMK3, that is simply not true. I tried basically every AF combination on it and it just does not give as much keepers as 1DMK3. So if I were to go down the 1 and 5series to a 7, the MKII better be damn good in its AF area. Also the high ISO is just a pain to deal with. I know that knowing the sport I am shooting does benefit me;however, I do like AI servo and track players rather than focus trap at a given point.

Yep.  If you are going to shoot a variety of sports, including indoor, the 7D is disappointing.  The ISO performance just isn't there for great indoor basketball, swimming, etc.  The two choices mentioned, 5D Mark III and 1D Mark IV are the clear winners.  I shoot a lot of basketball at 1/500, f/2.2, ISO 5000, so the 7D wouldn't even be an option at these games.  The 1D Mark IV is good through ISO 6400 (and I mean pretty darn good), the 5D Mark III you're probably safe up to 8000 or 10000. 
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: RMC33 on February 16, 2013, 03:45:12 PM
5d3 works just fine for sports. I keep a wider lens on it and have no tracking/focus issues at all. 1Dx is nice (I get to use one now and again and plan on buying) but my 7D does just fine for 95% of my shots. The only reason I want a 1Dx is night skiing/snowboarding is a pain with the 7D as is any indoor. I keep a 8-15 f4 fish or 16-35 UWA on my 5dMK3 and on high speed have yet to miss a shot I want. Usually have a 70-200 2.8 on my 7d or longer depending on my location.

The most important thing.. rather then body or lens .. is knowing your sport inside and out. Where your subject will be at what time and the best location to get the shot. Knowing what base the play will be in baseball, seeing any advantage during a power play, sitting under the net on one end of a basketball court and using a UWA or Fish to capture that game changing dunk or that one point in the course that everyone has had trouble with but you know one skier is going to nail the turn and give you "that shot".

Note on the 7D... I have the 7D and I've heard some people say it's AF is better than even the 1DMK3, that is simply not true. I tried basically every AF combination on it and it just does not give as much keepers as 1DMK3. So if I were to go down the 1 and 5series to a 7, the MKII better be damn good in its AF area. Also the high ISO is just a pain to deal with. I know that knowing the sport I am shooting does benefit me;however, I do like AI servo and track players rather than focus trap at a given point.

Yep.  If you are going to shoot a variety of sports, including indoor, the 7D is disappointing.  The ISO performance just isn't there for great indoor basketball, swimming, etc.  The two choices mentioned, 5D Mark III and 1D Mark IV are the clear winners.  I shoot a lot of basketball at 1/500, f/2.2, ISO 5000, so the 7D wouldn't even be an option at these games.  The 1D Mark IV is good through ISO 6400 (and I mean pretty darn good), the 5D Mark III you're probably safe up to 8000 or 10000.

Great advice!

Most of my 7d shots are outdoors so it works great.

I am seriously considering a 1Dx/1DIV at the moment to replace my (now broken) 7d instead of waiting for a 7D replacement. For the price is the Mk4 still that good?
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: DanoPhoto on February 16, 2013, 04:00:37 PM
1D4 is a monstrous upgrade from the 7D.  There is a large quantity of them available in the used market, just be cautious of the shutter count.  Many are high usage from pros and serious amatuers that have move to the 1DX.


IMO, if a low mile body (<100k shutter) could be found in the $3k ~ $3.5k range, then well worth the money.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: MARKOE PHOTOE on February 16, 2013, 04:31:45 PM
I used a 7D for two seasons for sports and it was great.  I've got a 5D3 but haven't used that and don't intend to.  I bought a used 1D4 last year that had 100K clicks.  The shutter has a 300K life but two months after my purchase, it crashed. 

I'm a CPS member, so I had it replaced out of warranty in 3 days for $300.  To me, its now like a new camera even with the extra $300 paid for the new shutter.  Honestly, the body is a bit beat up but the end result is whats really important to me and my viewers.

The 1D4 iso performance and fps is so much better than the 7D imho.  I wouldn't go back to the 7D however I might consider adding the new 7D2? when it gets released depending on spex. in addition to the 1D4.  Would love to have the 1DX but its not really in the budget yet.

As you know the 1D4 has a 1.3 crop and the 7D has a 1.6 crop so you lose a little distance with the 1D4.  1D4 batteries are still very expensive.


Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: RMC33 on February 16, 2013, 04:40:21 PM
1D4 is a monstrous upgrade from the 7D.  There is a large quantity of them available in the used market, just be cautious of the shutter count.  Many are high usage from pros and serious amatuers that have move to the 1DX.


IMO, if a low mile body (<100k shutter) could be found in the $3k ~ $3.5k range, then well worth the money.

That has been my biggest issue so far is a low mileage body which is why I am considering a 1Dx (insurance paid out $1100 for the 7D +grip). I bought the 7D used with about 10k shutter and I think when it broke the other day was close to 100k.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: bdunbar79 on February 16, 2013, 04:54:03 PM
I used a 7D for two seasons for sports and it was great.  I've got a 5D3 but haven't used that and don't intend to.  I bought a used 1D4 last year that had 100K clicks.  The shutter has a 300K life but two months after my purchase, it crashed. 

I'm a CPS member, so I had it replaced out of warranty in 3 days for $300.  To me, its now like a new camera even with the extra $300 paid for the new shutter.  Honestly, the body is a bit beat up but the end result is whats really important to me and my viewers.

The 1D4 iso performance and fps is so much better than the 7D imho.  I wouldn't go back to the 7D however I might consider adding the new 7D2? when it gets released depending on spex. in addition to the 1D4.  Would love to have the 1DX but its not really in the budget yet.

As you know the 1D4 has a 1.3 crop and the 7D has a 1.6 crop so you lose a little distance with the 1D4.  1D4 batteries are still very expensive.

You actually don't lose any distance.  A 1D4 image cropped to the same FOV to an uncropped 7D image still has higher IQ.

I do agree, however, that the 7D is a great outdoor sports and wildlife camera, especially with the reach!
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: EvillEmperor on February 16, 2013, 05:47:24 PM
I have never used the 1DIV before, but I use my school's 7D every sporting event. I then rented the 5D MK III for the day, and, speed wise, I couldn't tell the difference. Yes, I know using AF while continuously shooting with the 7D slows it down, but the 5D was faster in tricky af situations, even with 100% AF.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: alexanderferdinand on February 16, 2013, 06:00:43 PM
I have both cameras.
For sports I always take the 1d4.
Reasons: higher fps, faster with teles, the 1.3 crop.
And last but not least: the continuos AF is a bit more

The only thing I am spoiled since I have the 5d3- grip: I would like the 1d to have the second knob changing  my AF- filed using it in portrait mode......
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: BrandonKing96 on February 16, 2013, 06:09:06 PM
5DMK3 since you don't have any problem regarding the lens focal length but is having problem with ISO.  5D3 is better in ISO performance than 1DSMK3 by at least one or two stops.  1D4 is much worse than 1DSMK3 in ISO performance.
Don't know what camera you're looking at, but the 1D IV is superior to the 1Ds III in ISO performance.

I'd honestly go for the 1D IV.  Considering that you're used to a 1D style body too.

But for sports- 10 fps? great ISO performance? 1.3x crop factor? superior build? Yes x1000000.

I'd go for a 1D IV over a 5D III in your purpose. 
Shoot me if you will, but I sometimes feel as if I should trade my 5D III for a 1D IV, but I tend to work with landscapes more so I wouldn't. 

It would be good to have that old flagship combo of a 1D IV and 1Ds III.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: jrista on February 16, 2013, 10:58:22 PM
First of all, THE important thing is this is mainly for sports (hockey-often, basketball and volley ball- sometimes, football and soccer-rarely) Will use 2470, 70200 and new Sigma 120-300 when it comes out. Currently I use the 1Dmk3 and 1Dsmk3 with the 2470 and 70200 and find the ISO fairly hard to push over 3200, even at 3200 they are not great. Previously I had a 1D4 but it was sold so I'm looking to get the 5D3 (never used it before) or the 1D4 back, advices?

I think you'll find you are quite hampered by the 6fps frame rate of the 5D III. It may support higher ISO with slightly cleaner results, but when it comes to high speed action like sports, frame rate is probably the more important factor. The AF system of the 1D IV is nothing to shake a stick at, and while not quite as configurable as the 5D III's AF system, it does its job extremely well and has served many sports photographers superbly for a number of years. It is a proven system that offers 10fps, which should give you more keepers to find that perfect shot at the right moment.

Even if you have to push to ISO 3200, the 1D IV is really no slouch at that ISO. It is certainly not as good as the 1D X, however keep in mind the 1D X is really in a class of its own when it comes to ISO performance. The 5D III supports up to ISO 25600 native ISO, but lacks the additional polish that the 1D series gets. Even if the 1D IV is a little noisier than the 5D III, that noise should still be more manageable, and thus easier to clean up in post.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: rdalrt on February 16, 2013, 11:13:32 PM
For mainly sports, I would (and do, or rather did before I switched to 1dx's) go with the mk4 over the 5d3 every time.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: bdunbar79 on February 16, 2013, 11:30:03 PM
As jrista was getting at, even though the 5D Mark III is newer, I found that I could push and pull RAW files more so with the 1D Mark IV.  That is pretty common with 1D bodies vs. other bodies.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: Chewngum on April 18, 2013, 05:17:38 AM
I just bought a 1d4 to use alongside my 5d3 but its still in the mail. Any new or interesting info about the 1d4 vs 5d3? I would be shooting weddings and events. how is the 1d4 af in low light?
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: stilscream on April 18, 2013, 06:39:34 AM
I have currently (until I sell 3 bodies) a 7d, a 5d3, a 1d4 and a 1dx. Hands down 1dx wins, but 1div is my second favorite for wildlife (and presumably sports outside of Chess). I would take a 7d or a 5d3 in well lit situations, but for all around versitility-- for landscapes and such, 5d3 kills a 7d in IQ. Though it should, considering the price gap and age. If you want to see a video I posted showing fps of each I have included a link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab7ntX1FBhA&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab7ntX1FBhA&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: theobdt on May 23, 2013, 11:07:53 AM
1D MkIV hands down. I have a 40D, 5DMkIII, and a 1Dx and I find myself using that 1Dx a ton more for sports. I'm definitely going to purchase a 2nd 1Dx towards the end of the year. Don't get me wrong the 5DMkIII is usable but you have to be able to anticipate action really well as the fps is slower than an 1Dx or 1D MkIV.  The autofocus on the 5D MkIII is good as well but the 1Dx just focuses faster.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: bobby samat on July 06, 2013, 05:22:59 PM
i own both cameras.  both are fantastic for shooting sports.  if i had to pick one of them to use over the other for anything sports/wildlife related, i would almost always choose the 1d over the 5d.  there are a few very important things to take into account when making that decision - frame rate, body durability, crop factor, battery life, af system.  image quality is important too i suppose . . .

as for the frame rate, the 1d is 10 and the 5d is 6.  that one ought to be a no brainer to anyone who has shot sports before.  the faster your camera can take pictures, the better chance you have of getting the action shot you want with the facial expression you want.  is 10 fps necessary?  no.  i started shooting sports with a 5d1 - who's frame rate is just shy of 3 fpslow. 

thats the equivalent of walking 20 miles to school through the snow. i made it work and i got the shots i needed to get to complete my assignments.  however, i honestly don't remember using my 5d classic for sports once i got a 1d unless it was a situation where i absolutely needed two bodies.  the 5d3's max is 6, which isn't slow, but it sure isn't 10.

durability.  i can tell you for a fact that the 1d4 is built like a tank.  i've put mine through some pretty ridiculous conditions and it always worked flawlessly and cleaned up after assignments/vacations/music festivals/salt air.  it's been rained on countless times. i did have an issue with the hot shoe not wanting to work in ettl 2 with my 580ex one time, but i thoroughly cleaned the shoe and it works again.  that's it.  no other issues.

since i already have a camera i know has proven itself in the elements, i haven't done anything with my 5d3 to really test it's real life durability.  i can tell you for certain though, it doesn't get the same "tank" status that the 1d gets and if you held both cameras at the same time you would know exactly what i mean - one looks delicate and the other looks like it could roll down your stairs and be fine.  seriously.

another big thing that sports shooters want to take into consideration is the crop factor of their camera.  canon sacrificed some image quality with a 1.3 crop sensor in the 1d4 so the processor could handle 10 frames a second.  if you're seriously looking for degraded image quality from the crop sensor, you'll be able to zoom in and find it - but it still looks great.  but what 1.3 also means is that your 70-200 now gives you a reach of 260mm - which rocks in my opinion.  however, you're 16-35 just became a 21mm and your ultra wide capabilities are gone with that particular lens - which sucks in my opinion.  overall, i'd say most sports photographers would choose reach over a wider angle.

the battery life on the 1d4 is nothing short of ridiculous.  i've shot over 1000 images without the battery going below 50%.  at 10 fps, you won't believe how many shots you can take during a 3 hour game.  you're 1d battery wont die.  not even close.  ill go months without having to charge that thing sometimes.

the 5d3 has a bigger sensor and in turn a bigger mirror to power and operate which means more battery gets eaten.  a lot of the work i've done with my 5d3 has been on a tripod and hardly ever bursting frames, so the 5d3 battery by itself works quite a while for me, but i wouldn't go shoot something serious without an extra 5d battery.  if you do choose a 5d3 as your sports camera, i recommend getting a grip - immediately.  having a second shutter button is largely underrated in my opinion.  plus you get room for a second battery.  with a grip and two fully charged batteries, i would be surprised if most people get close to draining one of them. 

there is a fantastic af system in both cameras.  the 5d3 has the af system from the 1dx.  i've heard lots of people complain about their experiences with their 1d4 auto focus/servo.  it took me a few weeks to get my af custom functions dialed in, but after that, the servo has always been spot on.  i unfortunately haven't put my 5d3 through any real servo tests since i first got it, but it was very, very impressive for a 5d in my opinion.  the af menu is quite a bit different than the 1d4, but much easier to use once you get used to it.

when it comes down to overall image quality, the 5d3 wins.  there generally isn't going to be any application where that image improvement over the 1d4 is going to be absolutely necessary, but it's definitely there if you look close enough.

fortunately, when i go shoot, both of them get to come with me.  the 1d4 gets a 70-200 and the 5d3 gets a 16-35 or 24-70 - depending on the situation.  they're a hard combination to beat.

for most people, i'd say the 1d4 is extreme overkill.  do you need 10 fps?  is it worth paying a lot more and sacrificing some image quality for that 10fps? do you mainly shoot fast moving subjects? im not sure what the rate for a new 1d4 is right now, but im guessing you could get a 5d3 and a nice lens for the same cost, maybe less. 

honestly, i'd say a 5d3 is overkill for most photographers too.  unless you need the extra fps and the 1dx af system, you could save yourself a lot of money by getting a 5d2 or 6d and invest in glass.

i know a lot of this is repetitive throughout the thread, so i apologize.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: danski0224 on July 07, 2013, 08:48:43 AM
I recently discovered a "spot AF" feature in the 5d3. Does the 1d4 have something similar?
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: alexanderferdinand on July 07, 2013, 09:14:30 AM
The 1d4 has spot- AF only with some longer, expensive teles. Then you activate this feature with a knob on the objective.
I have both and would definitely choose the 1d.
Its not the 10fps, its the larger buffer and I like the position of the AF fields more.
Sure its possible to make excellent sportpictures with the 5d3, but for me the buffer is often something thats slows me down.
Title: Re: 5D III or 1D IV for sports!
Post by: robertbanksoz on July 07, 2013, 11:04:44 AM
I would take the 1d4 as it is classified as a pro body and u can get better resale then the 5d3