canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on February 13, 2013, 05:33:36 AM

Title: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Canon Rumors on February 13, 2013, 05:33:36 AM
From DPReview
The review of the Canon EOS 6D has been completed over at DPReview. They seem to be fairly positive about it, maybe less so than I am. I think the camera is great with terrific IQ. However, they did notice the same thing that I did, the battery drain with wifi and GPS turned on is quite significant, so be sure to buy an extra battery if you don’t have one.

I also don’t miss the autofocus system of the 5D Mark III when I’m using the EOS 6D, 95% of the time I find I don’t need anything beyond the center AF point. However, this point is personal preference and you may decide you need more cross-type AF points.

From DPR
“If you’re an EOS shooter eyeing the 6D as a more affordable alternative to the 5D Mark III, even as a second backup body, Canon has made your decision fairly straightforward. Still image quality aside, the concessions you’re forced to make for the significant cost savings are substantial. A slower burst rate, less sophisticated AF system with smaller coverage area, and moiré-prone video headline the list of compromises. And while we can understand Canon’s desire to keep the camera’s price down, other seemingly arbitrary decisions, like the inability to save HDR raw images and a DOF preview button whose location is much less useful than it could be, smack solely of product differentiation…..”

Read the full review | Canon EOS 6D Body $1879

cr

Title: Call that a review?
Post by: tnargs on February 13, 2013, 06:40:05 AM
Silver award and score a couple of percentage points less than the Nikon, gee that's OK.

Stop being so negative and letting your canon-hate show.

I think dpreview are really long on reviews but surely it is a copout to mark a camera up or down by comparing the spec sheets? We all did that 5 secs after the cameras were announced.

They have their hands on the cameras, so what we want to see are hands-on comments. Don't tell me it has less resolution if you are only basing it on reading spec sheets; tell me what you thought of the resolution when examining the images!

Don't tell me it's focusing is not as effective if you haven't done focusing comparison tests of the two cameras side-by-side. You might find it is in practice the opposite of what the spec sheet shows, but we'll never know because you haven't done a proper test!
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: J.R. on February 13, 2013, 07:07:33 AM
Why do the mention - "Relatively unsophisticated Auto ISO"?

 
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: J.R. on February 13, 2013, 07:08:07 AM
The basic assessment for me was the same - an excellent second body!
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: AvTvM on February 13, 2013, 07:53:42 AM
nothing but a re-packaged 5D II, crippled all around.
Still a tired old sensor with 2 EV less DR than any Nikon FF camera.
Still totally inadequate AF-system, only suitable to "but I only ever use the center AF-point"-shooters.
Overall even weaker than the nothing-to-write-home-about Nikon D600.

And dpreview is a totally uncritical review site. The will highly recommend any piece of crap as long as it may  sell well on amazon, their corporate parent.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: caruser on February 13, 2013, 08:51:49 AM
I would hope that the 6D has moire in video, that means it doesn't have the overly strong "let's make ALL images soft just for the couple of people that use this for serious video"-AA-filter in the 5D3! At least that was my initial impression after looking at the first 5D3 reviews and sample images, that the AA-filter was too strong.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Zlatko on February 13, 2013, 09:06:04 AM
nothing but a re-packaged 5D II, crippled all around.
Still a tired old sensor with 2 EV less DR than any Nikon FF camera.
Still totally inadequate AF-system, only suitable to "but I only ever use the center AF-point"-shooters.
Overall even weaker than the nothing-to-write-home-about Nikon D600.
DPReview gives the 6D a lower score than the 7D.  But the 6D is smaller and lighter than a 7D, while offering a sensor twice as big.  And it offers great high ISO, better than the 5DII.  And it offers great low-light AF, going down to -3EV. 

I've shot professionally with the simple AF system of the 5D and 5D2 for years, so the simple AF system of the 6D wouldn't stop me from buying a 6D.  And I've used the outer AF points many, many times.  Many pros chose the 5DII despite its simple AF system, so "totally inadequate AF" is a total exaggeration.  Now Canon seems to have upgraded the AF accuracy in the 6D, so it can only be better than the AF of the 5DII -
http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/12/af-consistency-comparison-nikon-canon-phase-detect-contrast-detect/ (http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/12/af-consistency-comparison-nikon-canon-phase-detect-contrast-detect/)
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: distant.star on February 13, 2013, 09:49:53 AM
.
Left handed compliment:

A criticism or insult disguised as a compliment.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 13, 2013, 10:08:17 AM
nothing but a re-packaged 5D II, crippled all around.
Still a tired old sensor with 2 EV less DR than any Nikon FF camera.
Still totally inadequate AF-system, only suitable to "but I only ever use the center AF-point"-shooters.
Overall even weaker than the nothing-to-write-home-about Nikon D600.

You probably shouldn't buy one for yourself, then. 
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Sporgon on February 13, 2013, 10:14:03 AM
I've shot professionally with the simple AF system of the 5D and 5D2 for years, so the simple AF system of the 6D wouldn't stop me from buying a 6D.  And I've used the outer AF points many, many times.  Many pros chose the 5DII despite its simple AF system, so "totally inadequate AF" is a total exaggeration.  Now Canon seems to have upgraded the AF accuracy in the 6D, so it can only be better than the AF of the 5DII -
http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/12/af-consistency-comparison-nikon-canon-phase-detect-contrast-detect/ (http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/12/af-consistency-comparison-nikon-canon-phase-detect-contrast-detect/)
[/quote]


I'm always wary of these types of "test". I've only ever heard reports of the 7D's AF out performing the 5D in the field.

And I've used the 5D's outer focus points since 2005, and they've been fine - OK they're not fool proof, you can't expect them to work when there is no contrast so place them where there is some contrast.

With regard to the DP review of the 6D it is inevitable that they won't rave about it. It's a relativelystraight forward ( in modern terms ) camera which focuses on picture taking rather than bells and whistles, and in the hands of competent photographers will produce some amazing images for less outlay than a 5D MK3 or 1Dx.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 13, 2013, 10:21:51 AM
I'm always wary of these types of "test". I've only ever heard reports of the 7D's AF out performing the 5D in the field.

And I've used the 5D's outer focus points since 2005, and they've been fine - OK they're not fool proof, you can't expect them to work when there is no contrast so place them where there is some contrast.

The center point of the 5DII is very good - the equal of the 7D in most situations with a static subject, IMO.  But the off-center points of the 7D are just about as good as the 5DII's center point, and much better than the 5DII's peripheral points.

In FoCal's test, the rather big surprise is how inaccurate and variable contrast-detect AF is on both the 5DII and the 7D. 
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Marsu42 on February 13, 2013, 11:21:48 AM
In FoCal's test, the rather big surprise is how inaccurate and variable contrast-detect AF is on both the 5DII and the 7D.
I didn't know that and expected my 60d af to be always spot on - is this your personal experience or do you have sources on that? Afaik even lensrentals uses contrast af as the comparison for perfect af accuracy?

, the battery drain with wifi and GPS turned on is quite significant
... as far as I've read wifi is the main culprit, while gps surprisingly seems to draw little power when the interval is set to 60sec.

Why do the mention - "Relatively unsophisticated Auto ISO"?
Because there's Magic Lantern with sophisticated auto iso :-)

nothing but a re-packaged 5D II, crippled all around.
Imho the 6d is still overpriced and certainly not a feather in Canon's cap, but you are either ignorant or trolling: The list of advantages of the 6d over the older 5d2 is significant, though we know Canon felt like downgrading some core specs (x-sync, shutter speed, shutter rating): http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12582.msg226467#msg226467 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12582.msg226467#msg226467)

Overall even weaker than the nothing-to-write-home-about Nikon D600.
... but you might feel different about writing home about the 6d after trying to use the d600 af in low light.The main part in the dpreview review that was missing from the preview is this:

Quote
Focus acquisition on the EOS 6D displays all the hallmarks of mature phase detection AF performance. The camera is quick to lock focus and under most conditions does so with a high degree of accuracy. In reviewing hundreds of images shot with the 6D, the vast majority of shots that did lack critical sharpness were due to either subject or camera movement.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: J.R. on February 13, 2013, 11:35:11 AM
In FoCal's test, the rather big surprise is how inaccurate and variable contrast-detect AF is on both the 5DII and the 7D.
I didn't know that and expected my 60d af to be always spot on - is this your personal experience or do you have sources on that? Afaik even lensrentals uses contrast af as the comparison for perfect af accuracy?


You can access it here-

http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/12/af-consistency-comparison-nikon-canon-phase-detect-contrast-detect/ (http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/12/af-consistency-comparison-nikon-canon-phase-detect-contrast-detect/)
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 13, 2013, 11:36:55 AM
In FoCal's test, the rather big surprise is how inaccurate and variable contrast-detect AF is on both the 5DII and the 7D.
I didn't know that and expected my 60d af to be always spot on - is this your personal experience or do you have sources on that? Afaik even lensrentals uses contrast af as the comparison for perfect af accuracy?

Was basing that on FoCal's data linked above, but anecdotally I have noticed misfocused shots with Live View AF on the 5DII.  I'm not sure what LensRentals uses as a standard, but for actual lens sharpness testing (as opposed to AF performance testing), AF should not be used at all - instead, manual focus bracketing (or distance bracketing with a rail) should be used, with the sharpest of the resulting shots selected.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: dswatson83 on February 13, 2013, 12:17:20 PM
This camera was a tough one for me to decide on. Every camera has its ups and downs but I truly felt that this camera was less about some rumored tech that we all wanted like 4D video, 1080p @60fps, an extra 2 stops of DR, or something along those lines. Instead it was as if Canon was intentionally disabling features and including others to make this camera not step on the toes of any other camera available. As a result, it almost felt like this concoction of features from a variety of other cameras rather than a camera built with a specific user and a specific purpose. There were too many missing video features for this to be a video guys camera, too many missing controls for this to be a professional body, too high a price for this to be an average Joes consumer or vacation camera. However, other than the price, this seems like the perfect camera for someone who loves the t4i or 60D but wants the image quality of the 5D mark III. If you are or were ever interested in the 5D or 1D cameras, you may be a little disappointed using this camera, though not at all disappointed at the quality it produces. And that is why this review is so difficult. This camera oozes great image and even video quality, but getting it to produce this quality is more of a struggle than with the 5D mark III. Having a center focus point as the only decent point, lacking a white balance button and quick access to some controls, difficult to access video settings, not having backup card slots, no custom file naming abilities...and things of that nature just made me pick this camera up much less than any other camera I own. The small size and weight reduction didn’t quite make it worth it for me to put down my 5D, unlike some mirrorless cameras by Fuji for example. Thus, I maintain that if you are wanting or considering a 5D mark III, this is NOT a mini 5D mark III in many ways. However, if you want a T4i or 60D but are disappointed with the image quality they produce and you are lusting over the Full Frame advantages, you will love this Canon 6D.

There is a full review at the site: http://learningcameras.com/reviews/4-dslrs/91-canon-6d-review (http://learningcameras.com/reviews/4-dslrs/91-canon-6d-review)
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: unfocused on February 13, 2013, 12:44:31 PM
I notice a pattern with the 5DIII and 6D:

Canon introduces the camera, the internets light up with complaints (too expensive, not enough improvement, features "crippled" etc. etc.)

Then the camera finally hits the users' hands and within about three months the complaints start to melt away as real users get hands on experience.

Turns out the only legitimate complaint about the 5DIII seems to have been the cost. But, the market is fixing that.

It now appears that 6D users are pleasantly surprised at how good this camera is for the price and how close it is to the 5DIII in the area that counts (the quality of the images).

As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: tnargs on February 13, 2013, 04:34:36 PM
In FoCal's test, the rather big surprise is how inaccurate and variable contrast-detect AF is on both the 5DII and the 7D.
I didn't know that and expected my 60d af to be always spot on - is this your personal experience or do you have sources on that? Afaik even lensrentals uses contrast af as the comparison for perfect af accuracy?

The 'inaccuracy' refers to low-contrast scenes -- obviously.

Don't use contrast AF for low contrast focus points -- unless you are not a photographer but a camera tester instead.

(PS I am amazed by posters on canonrumors -- all wannabe camera testers instead of being photographers after cameras that meet their *real* needs. We can all make up 'pretend' needs for excellent focus on low contrast areas using contrast-detect AF -- but IMHO you are an idiot if you can't work around such a silly need).

(PPS I suppose as soon as a camera comes out with focus points in all four extreme corners of the frame, 99% of canonrumors posters are going to 'need' it in their cameras --- it will become a 'deal breaker'. When that happens I will be laughing at you even harder than I am today).
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Marsu42 on February 13, 2013, 07:43:30 PM
In FoCal's test, the rather big surprise is how inaccurate and variable contrast-detect AF is on both the 5DII and the 7D.
I didn't know that and expected my 60d af to be always spot on - is this your personal experience or do you have sources on that? Afaik even lensrentals uses contrast af as the comparison for perfect af accuracy?
The 'inaccuracy' refers to low-contrast scenes -- obviously.

Since I only heard about this now and didn't have time to read up on the tests it was news to me - but fortunately there are very clever people here to point out the obvious :-> ... I was just wondering if I can use contrast af for shooting test charts after getting a new lens, or if I have to take multiple exposures to allow for some af error - but as I understand now high-contrast b/w charts should achieve good focus.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: tnargs on February 13, 2013, 08:10:01 PM
... I was just wondering if I can use contrast af for shooting test charts after getting a new lens, or if I have to take multiple exposures to allow for some af error - but as I understand now high-contrast b/w charts should achieve good focus.

Correct, you will have no problem. Simple to check if AF is on target: chimp and zoom in.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 13, 2013, 08:20:51 PM
In FoCal's test, the rather big surprise is how inaccurate and variable contrast-detect AF is on both the 5DII and the 7D.
I didn't know that and expected my 60d af to be always spot on - is this your personal experience or do you have sources on that? Afaik even lensrentals uses contrast af as the comparison for perfect af accuracy?
The 'inaccuracy' refers to low-contrast scenes -- obviously.

Rich (FoCal) would certainly have used the focus target for the software in conducting his AF tests - basically, it's a large QR-code with a concentric circle target in the middle. So, the test results show inaccuracies and inconsistencies with a very high contrast subject.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 14, 2013, 04:01:14 AM
I notice a pattern with the 5DIII and 6D:

Canon introduces the camera, the internets light up with complaints (too expensive, not enough improvement, features "crippled" etc. etc.)

Then the camera finally hits the users' hands and within about three months the complaints start to melt away as real users get hands on experience.

Turns out the only legitimate complaint about the 5DIII seems to have been the cost. But, the market is fixing that.

It now appears that 6D users are pleasantly surprised at how good this camera is for the price and how close it is to the 5DIII in the area that counts (the quality of the images).

As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.
I guess it's the dynamics of an online forum. But I would argue that we still see a lot of complaining about the 5D3 so some of these trolls must be very persistent.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: tortilla on February 14, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.
And finally it will be considered as what it is: a decent camera. That's Rogers law: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction)
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Marsu42 on February 14, 2013, 11:58:31 AM
And finally it will be considered as what it is: a decent camera.

All current dlsrs are "decent", imho it's only about "value", i.e. performance vs. price - and since the price curve is unpredictable (see 5d3 price drop) imho it isn't as easy as the previous posts above or the (humorous!) lens rentals article suggest.

Esp. with the rather "basic" feature set of the 6d the price is a main component, while the 5d3 with better specs and esp. the af system will keep being "really" decent for a long time to come but the 6d will be more quickly regarded as "only" decent since it's mostly the previous 5d2 generation tech. That won't hinder me from buying a 6d, but I'm aware of the 5d3/6d difference.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: unfocused on February 14, 2013, 01:19:43 PM
As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.
And finally it will be considered as what it is: a decent camera. That's Rogers law: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction)
That's great. Leave it to Roger to cut through all the bull and get right to the heart.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: t.linn on February 15, 2013, 07:36:04 PM
I would not be posting except for CR's comment about the AF.  I've found the improved AF of the 5D3 has expanded the type of subject matter that I shoot.  For me, it is a revolutionary improvement.  I could not go back to my 5D2—ever.  To be clear, my point is not to denigrate the 6D but rather to provide an alternative viewpoint to CR's "it's better but it doesn't really matter" view on the 5D3's AF.

Having said that, I have to chime in with the subsequent poster who lamented Canon's pathetic DR limitations on all its DSLR's.  Canon has stood still in this critical area of IQ while Sony (and thus Nikon) has lapped them several times over.  It is completely appropriate that we, Canon customers, share our disappointment.  Part of getting this message to Canon is getting it to others who may not be aware of just how much better other sensors are in this regard.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 15, 2013, 11:22:37 PM
I guess it's the dynamics of an online forum. But I would argue that we still see a lot of complaining about the 5D3 so some of these trolls must be very persistent.
Fair criticism of a Camera is not "trolling" any more than fair praise of a camera. It is being rational. Fanboys on the other hand, are seldom rational. So lets quit calling people names.

-h
I think you know that I didn't mean fair criticism and I didn't call people names here.

At least I haven't seen someone shouting out: 'That's it, I'm moving to Nikon' for a while, maybe that means they finally did.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 15, 2013, 11:26:54 PM
As someone who is anxiously waiting to see what they do with the 7DII, I'm now expecting two things to happen. First, whatever Canon produces will cause all sorts of trolling on the internets from the usual suspects and, Second, once the 7DII is out for a few months, real users will be impressed with what a solid performer it turns out to be.
And finally it will be considered as what it is: a decent camera. That's Rogers law: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/rogers-law-of-new-product-introduction)
That's great. Leave it to Roger to cut through all the bull and get right to the heart.
Great stuff. Where is the 5D3 now? Has it reached the point where it is a useful tool yet? What about the 6D?
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: AvTvM on February 16, 2013, 09:30:17 AM
At least I haven't seen someone shouting out: 'That's it, I'm moving to Nikon' for a while, maybe that means they finally did.

Well, if I would move to full-frame, I would definitely move to Nikon D800. Not for the megapixels. For DR and image quality at +2 EV compared to anything from Canon shy of 5000 Euro.

And I will happily repeat, that  the  6D is a poor piece of crap, a warmed-over 5D2, without any real advantage as far as sensoran d IQ is concerned. And with an AF-System that is only really suitable to "central-AF point users". A Canon marketing-cripple all around. 
 
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: Marsu42 on February 16, 2013, 10:46:53 AM
And I will happily repeat, that  the  6D is a poor piece of crap, a warmed-over 5D2, without any real advantage as far as sensoran d IQ is concerned.

The 6d has less banding, a problem that seems to have plagued a lot of 5d2 shooters, and Nikon only has more dr in low iso. That doesn't make the 6d a more innovative camera - but without putting too much a fine point on it, I don't think you'll let facts stand in the way of your opinion anyway.
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: BrettS on February 16, 2013, 12:23:14 PM
And I will happily repeat, that  the  6D is a poor piece of crap, a warmed-over 5D2, without any real advantage as far as sensoran d IQ is concerned.

The 6d has less banding, a problem that seems to have plagued a lot of 5d2 shooters, and Nikon only has more dr in low iso. That doesn't make the 6d a more innovative camera - but without putting too much a fine point on it, I don't think you'll let facts stand in the way of your opinion anyway.

+1
Title: Re: DPReview: Canon EOS 6D Reviewed
Post by: J.R. on February 16, 2013, 12:38:01 PM
And I will happily repeat, that  the  6D is a poor piece of crap, a warmed-over 5D2, without any real advantage as far as sensoran d IQ is concerned.

The 6d has less banding, a problem that seems to have plagued a lot of 5d2 shooters, and Nikon only has more dr in low iso. That doesn't make the 6d a more innovative camera - but without putting too much a fine point on it, I don't think you'll let facts stand in the way of your opinion anyway.

+1 ... Apart from the AF, there is very little I don't like about the 6D. It is a great camera!

In fact I find it amazing that some people who have never ever shot with a FF come out denouncing the 6D citing DR while they are perfectly happy with their APS-C cameras. If you want to jump ship, please do so and do it right now what's the point in moaning?

Personally I've not found the 5d3 or the 6d's lack of DR limiting my shots (maybe its just me). More DR is most certainly welcome, but simply because a camera doesn't allow recovery of x number of stops doesn't make the Canon cameras 'crap' as suggested. ETTR and you'll be just fine.