canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: expatinasia on February 19, 2013, 10:01:12 PM

Title: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: expatinasia on February 19, 2013, 10:01:12 PM
As it seems, we may be getting closer to an actual 7D Mark II. I ask you, how would you prefer your 7D Mark II to be served?

And would you pay extra for the additional perks like WiFi and GPS?
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: jrista on February 19, 2013, 11:07:20 PM
I'll take both the WiFi and GPS. As I mentioned in another thread, "computing" is a whole different beast today than it was in fairly recent years past. With all of my current gear, I could definitely use both GPS and WiFi while out photographing birds and wildlife.

If I had the option, I'd set up my Lumia phone as a WiFi hotspot. I'd connect my Surface Pro tablet to my car for power, pop in an extra 128gb memory card, and join the Lumia wifi network along with my trusty 7D II with its fancy wifi and GPS. I'd write a Metro app that would wirelessly receive, archive, convert to JPEG, and (if I was within range of a cell tower), back up my photos to my SkyDrive (just for safe keeping)...all real-time as I'm shooting. Since this is WiFi, I could leave my tablet in the car, and so long as I'm within range for the wireless network to work, I could shoot all day long and never have to worry about my work getting lost, running out of space, etc. When I want to review my shots, rather than poking around on a piddly little 3.2" screen, I haul out my beautiful 10.6" 190ppi tablet and view my work in high def.   :o

Ah, the wonders of modern technology.  8)

Now, of course, if I'm way out in the boonies somewhere photographing an unholy-rare species of bird miles from any road...this ain't gonna work. I might instead bring along a Surface RT with its immense battery life, and just take that along with me, rather than leaving it in the car. I'd lose the real-time backup, but I'd still have that nice high-def preview capability, and 256gb of space (I rarely use more than about 64gb on any given shoot).

All the while, the camera is automatically tagging my GPS coordinates, so I don't have to spend inordinate HOURS in post geocoding all of my photos...wow, I cannot express how much I hate post-process geocoding...

So...hell yeah! I'll take both, please!  ;D
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 19, 2013, 11:25:39 PM
As it seems, we may be getting closer to an actual 7D Mark II. I ask you, how would you prefer your 7D Mark II to be served?

And would you pay extra for the additional perks like WiFi and GPS?
Give me everything, but give me the option of turning them on or off ... if the camera comes with all the features that Canon Rumors mentioned, I would pay the rumored price tag of around $2200 ... when I bought the 7D I paid $2136 in the middle east (that is the last camera I bought in the middle east ... now I only buy online from US, Japan or Hongkong due to the huge price difference).
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: robbymack on February 19, 2013, 11:39:40 PM
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but you won't get a full magnesium body if there is built in wifi and GPS as the signals won't reliably get through the metal plating so you'll end up with something like the 6d with the plastic bit in top. I don't see that as a deal breaker but I'm sure others will.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: adamdoesmovies on February 20, 2013, 01:06:57 AM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: gjones5252 on February 20, 2013, 01:24:52 AM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.

Huge 1+
Miss this so much with my 60d.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: jrista on February 20, 2013, 02:23:14 AM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.

Weather sealing a movable part creates a wareable seal...you'ed either have to forego the GUARANTEE that your camera is sealed against a certain amount of weather, or you'ed have to take the darn thing in periodically to get the seals around the articulating screen's hynge checked to make sure they haven't cracked or torn...

I'll forego the articulation myself. I prefer weather sealing I can trust.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 20, 2013, 02:56:22 AM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.

That's not a stupid suggestion, that's a valid solution to your problem. 

Almost two years with a swivel screen on the 60D, don't think I used it more than once.  I'm glad the 5D3 doesn't have that damned thing.  I'd rather have a magnesium body and weather sealing than something I'll never use.  Just one more thing to break at the most inopportune time.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: greger on February 20, 2013, 03:07:34 AM
I was sure there wouldn't be a 7Dll after reading Masaya Maeda's interview. Oops! It's not officially announced yet but I also hope it has an articulating screen. I am going to research using EOS Utility to control the 7D with a Laptop. I think a 13 inch MacBook Pro might be in my future. Maybe a 15 inch would be better. If I got a 17 inch I would need a wheelbarrow when I go out to take pics. ;D
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 20, 2013, 03:59:29 AM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.

That's not a stupid suggestion, that's a valid solution to your problem. 

Almost two years with a swivel screen on the 60D, don't think I used it more than once.  I'm glad the 5D3 doesn't have that damned thing.  I'd rather have a magnesium body and weather sealing than something I'll never use.  Just one more thing to break at the most inopportune time.
I agree and disagree, I had a 60D before and loved it whenever I shot video. My video shooting however stretches only to private stuff and some fun for youtube. I was also happy for it on a few occasions when I needed to use liveview holding the camera high for example. On the other hand, since getting my new body I haven't missed it that much and I do agree it's just another thing that can break just when you need the camera the most.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Ladislav on February 20, 2013, 04:12:15 AM
In my opinion every Canon camera released after Rebel T4i / 650D should have touch screen and every Canon camera released after 6D should have WiFi and GPS (if possible because they will most probably not work behind metal plate). All these features were already included in some model, all are quite cheap and doesn't increase the cost of the device (they are present in every budget smart phone), all are optional (you don't need to use them if you don't want) and all can bring significant value to users who want to use them - ergonomics or workflow improvements.

I'm amateur currently looking for upgrade from my 650D. I love 6D except two disappointments: no touch screen and "only" 97% viewfinder. I will wait for 70D and after that decide which one is better for my needs, skill and budget (in terms of cost/performance ratio).
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 20, 2013, 04:12:37 AM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.
I absolutely agree that it is a stupid suggestion to say "go buy a dedicated monitor" just because someone likes/wants a swivel screen ... that's like saying "go buy EOS 1D X" to anyone who wants (the rumored) 10 fps in a 7D II ... for those who don't like/want the swivel screen can always not turn the screen around - just keep the screen in the normal position, that should be a no brainer. For me it sounds stupid when people say that it will break ... I've had the 60D for over 3 years and I use it in extreme dusty desert conditions climbing on rig floors that are very difficult to navigate with camera gear, to make videos of our company's rig moves ... I've even accidently dropped it on the metal rig floors on two occassions with the swivel screen turned to the side, not once did it break ... it has many scratches and small dents on the body but not on the screen ... it still works perfectly. The only way to break it is deliberately throw it with force or twist/pull in the wrong direction.
I am totally for a swivel screen ... it would be awesome on a 7D II
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Eclectik on February 20, 2013, 05:13:56 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: tomscott on February 20, 2013, 05:35:49 AM
But even if you have a smart phone for GPS its still an extra step in post. Which many pros dont have time to do. Far easier to have it integrated and it do it for you.

I would love GPS and WiFi think the possibilities of these new features spread a lot further than what these people with narrow fields of view can think of.

Also the swivel screen, im not a fan simply because of the weakness it creates. But in use they are extremely useful and I would benefit from it, I just dont see Canon putting one in any of its Pro weather sealed products there are a lot of issues to overcome weather sealing a rotating screen that could be reliable. You can get around it but I would rather not have it than it reduce the life of the camera.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 20, 2013, 06:00:01 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: tron on February 20, 2013, 06:14:34 AM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.
Maybe a delicate articulating monitor is an equally stupid suggestion for a supposedly rugged (OK semi-rugged) camera....
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: tron on February 20, 2013, 06:17:09 AM
As it seems, we may be getting closer to an actual 7D Mark II. I ask you, how would you prefer your 7D Mark II to be served?

And would you pay extra for the additional perks like WiFi and GPS?
1 .I wouldn't pay for gimmicks that I do not want to use:
2. Sealing could be compromised
3. I do not trust Canon to make a camera able to turn them off 100% to avoid battery drain.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Leejo on February 20, 2013, 06:30:41 AM
As far as I am concerened, it's a matter of compromise like everything else.
I assume that both WiFi and GPS can be turned off - that's commonsense to me.
As some have commented I don't think that the components are too costly to affect the price significantly.
I have the 7D and the general robustness, and "reasonable" weather prrofing was one of the important purchasing critieria.
If this can be maintained with all/any of the options WiFi, GPS, Flipscreen then I can personally appreciate them for their their occasional usage, and would factor this into the price consideration.
I appreciate other users may have either none/lower or higher needs for each, depending on their usage.
I think that Canon will however position the 7D Mark II as an allrounder - and if Video is a selling point then the flipscreen sounds feasible.

The question then remains however - what will differentiate this from the 70D? I see the better framerate,  focusing, better controls (joystick), better build, and AFMA the difference for now from the 7D over the 60D - at the expense of flipscreen and updated Video. But if can we assume that the 70D comes first - what will that have over the 60D ? I can only assume adding WiFi and GPS in that body (as per 6D equivalence).  I can't see them taking away the general Video functions. The sensor could be either only slightly or much improved. If the latter however how will the 7D excel, except for frame rate unless the sensor should be even better.

I guess that we are getting infos on the the 70D and 7D here - the 70D to get the GPS and WiFi and Video Flipscreen - similar to the 6D.
The 7D to get the new sensor, focusing and some upgrades in the Video capabilities - as per 5D Mark III.
Maybe this shows my bias to the 7D - but I simply don't expect that it will have everything - unless this is Canon's attempt at the last answer in that area, and they are going to throw everything in that they can in the current ultimate crop camera...
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: azezal on February 20, 2013, 08:15:27 AM
I hope we get a 7d without a GPS and WiFi option at a slightly lower cost,I'd buy it
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Eclectik on February 20, 2013, 09:06:04 AM
+1 with you, Azezal. Unfortunately, it seems we are few.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bseitz234 on February 20, 2013, 09:48:13 AM
Has canon ever made a weather sealed body with a swivel screen? Not commenting on what they CAN do, just historical precedent... If they ditch weather sealing in favor of a swivel screen, I'm picking up another 7d classic in a heartbeat to have a second body.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RLPhoto on February 20, 2013, 09:51:31 AM
I'd prefer built in RT triggering for speedlites.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 20, 2013, 11:17:50 AM
I hope we get a 7d without a GPS and WiFi option at a slightly lower cost,I'd buy it
Such a camera already exists ... its called the EOS 7D ... its a great camera ... and its on sale these days ... so no need to wait for 7D II
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 11:50:52 AM
And if you can't use wifi or gps because of the metal body..... how do you think it manages to talk to a wireless flash???

Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RLPhoto on February 20, 2013, 11:56:33 AM
And if you can't use wifi or gps because of the metal body..... how do you think it manages to talk to a wireless flash???

The same way I can put RT speedlites through solid steel walls & doors.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 12:03:23 PM
Also, the antenna that will be used for wifi will probably be the same antenna used for communicating to your speedlight..... and it will probably also have the gps antenna as part of the same unit. It is far cheaper for canon to use 1 antenna design for ALL of it's cameras than to make different units and stock different replacement parts. Likewise, the touchscreen display...

You can expect these features on every DSLR to be released.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RC on February 20, 2013, 12:10:52 PM
+1 with you, Azezal. Unfortunately, it seems we are few.
I'm even in a smaller group, no GPS, no WiFi, no swivel screen, and no touch screen. 
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RLPhoto on February 20, 2013, 12:15:59 PM
Also, the antenna that will be used for wifi will probably be the same antenna used for communicating to your speedlight..... and it will probably also have the gps antenna as part of the same unit. It is far cheaper for canon to use 1 antenna design for ALL of it's cameras than to make different units and stock different replacement parts. Likewise, the touchscreen display...

You can expect these features on every DSLR to be released.

Nah, I wouldn't even want a GPS/Wifi antenna. Just a dedicated RT controller built in body.

Infact, to the OP, add RT controller on the list and I'd vote for that.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 12:37:37 PM
As to durability/protection... the articulated screen may be more protected than a normal screen.... flip it around when not in use and the glass is protected. You just don't hear stories of the screens breaking off, it seems to be a very reliable design. I'm sure it happens, but you also hear stories of broken non-articulated screens. The Canon repair department would probably have a much better idea than us as to how much of a problem it really is.

As to waterproofing.... lots of buttons, knobs, and dials to be waterproofed. Buttons are easy, knobs and dials a bit harder to do well, but an articulated screen is a nightmare.... one part twists, one part swivels, it would be just about impossible to waterproof the whole assembly..... but you could waterproof past the ends of the articulating assembly where the parts are not moving. I am led to believe that's what was done on the 60D. The screen may be better sealed than the memory card door or the battery compartment :)

As to usefullness... when I walk around I never use the articulated screen. On a tripod I seldom use the articulated screen, but when needed it is very handy. For astrophotography, I use it a lot and think it is indenspensable.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Dantana on February 20, 2013, 12:41:34 PM
It's interesting that if something new is going to be added to an upcoming camera, there are two reactions:

1. If you think you need it, you refer to it as a feature.

2. If you think you don't, it's a gimmick.


There are plenty of "features" that I will probably never use. Just turn them off. As for the issue of compromising the build quality/seal, I don't think Canon is putting themselves in that position since they are releasing both a 70D and a 7D II. Besides, the 7D already has a pop-up flash. I'm not sure how that can be considered sealed.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 20, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
And if you can't use wifi or gps because of the metal body..... how do you think it manages to talk to a wireless flash???

Wifi and RT would have reduced range if they can't get the antenna outside the metal.  A GPS receiver however, deals with signals several orders of magnitude weaker, and would never work acceptably inside a metal body.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: tron on February 20, 2013, 12:50:13 PM
+1 with you, Azezal. Unfortunately, it seems we are few.
I'm even in a smaller group, no GPS, no WiFi, no swivel screen, and no touch screen.
There wasn't such a selection, otherwise you might had a surprise  ;)
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: al2 on February 20, 2013, 01:07:20 PM
One of the issues with the flip-screen is the amount of space the hinge and frame take up on the back of the camera.  Either we are going to get a much smaller screen or we will lose 5 or 6 buttons on the back.  That is a pretty steep price to pay.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 01:49:16 PM

Nah, I wouldn't even want a GPS/Wifi antenna. Just a dedicated RT controller built in body.

Infact, to the OP, add RT controller on the list and I'd vote for that.

But you talk to the speedlight at 2.4Ghz...... That's your WiFi antenna.....
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RMC33 on February 20, 2013, 01:53:56 PM
And, for that matter, can we please just have the articulating screen already? Anyone that doesn't like it can just LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS. Seriously, I've needed one this entire week...and no, I don't want to go buy a dedicated monitor. That's a stupid suggestion.

Articulating screens and touch screens are not present on any of the high end bodies for one reason: Durability. EVEN if you leave it folded in from a design and integrity standpoint the whole is much weaker. It also is just another place for water, dust and grit to get into the body that they will have to seal. Moving parts are also a HUGE pain in the ass in any assembly and increase costs/defect rate/reliability of the finished product. 7DII will not have this feature and if it does I do not see it selling very well to the segment Canon has targeted. 70D could possibly have it and I honestly would like to see it there.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RLPhoto on February 20, 2013, 02:51:48 PM

Nah, I wouldn't even want a GPS/Wifi antenna. Just a dedicated RT controller built in body.

Infact, to the OP, add RT controller on the list and I'd vote for that.

But you talk to the speedlight at 2.4Ghz...... That's your WiFi antenna.....

Great. Now that we know if they put Wifi inside but No RT triggering, Canon has been holding out on us since 6D.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: JustinMartin on February 20, 2013, 03:17:48 PM
What about creating 2 different grips for the 7D Mii, one with the GPS and WiFi and one without?
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RMC33 on February 20, 2013, 03:18:52 PM
What about creating 2 different grips for the 7D Mii, one with the GPS and WiFi and one without?

Weather sealing. And I think those mod's would eat up at least 1 battery slot.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 20, 2013, 04:06:38 PM
What about creating 2 different grips for the 7D Mii, one with the GPS and WiFi and one without?

Weather sealing. And I think those mod's would eat up at least 1 battery slot.

Because the components are so cheap (GPS is <$3 each in bulk, WiFi is <$10), I would imagine they'd be built into the body, and only enabled if you have the grip.  That would give a good place to put the antenna too, since the battery tray is plastic.  The biggest issue in putting the antennas in the tray (I'd imagine right in the door, you only need 3.125cm for a 1/4 wave 2.4Ghz antenna), would be the additional RF connector on the tray & grip that can sustain repeated coupling without breaking or incurring excessive loss.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 20, 2013, 04:20:51 PM
It's interesting that if something new is going to be added to an upcoming camera, there are two reactions:

1. If you think you need it, you refer to it as a feature.

2. If you think you don't, it's a gimmick.


There are plenty of "features" that I will probably never use. Just turn them off. As for the issue of compromising the build quality/seal, I don't think Canon is putting themselves in that position since they are releasing both a 70D and a 7D II. Besides, the 7D already has a pop-up flash. I'm not sure how that can be considered sealed.

Feature vs. gimmick... I think you're 98% correct. I personally don't object to any (gimmicky :P ) features that I don't think I'll use, unless it impacts the features currently present in a line (i.e., ruggedness or weather sealing in this case).  I don't buy the argument of cost increases for most features, like GPS or WiFi, because I know the components themselves are dirt cheap, and most of the development is already complete once they have the first model with those features (6D).  And for features like video, which I don't care about either; I believe the increased market and subsequent production, makes for a camera that is a net gain for consumers, possibly even cheaper.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: RMC33 on February 20, 2013, 04:22:16 PM
What about creating 2 different grips for the 7D Mii, one with the GPS and WiFi and one without?

Weather sealing. And I think those mod's would eat up at least 1 battery slot.

Because the components are so cheap (GPS is <$3 each in bulk, WiFi is <$10), I would imagine they'd be built into the body, and only enabled if you have the grip.  That would give a good place to put the antenna too, since the battery tray is plastic.  The biggest issue in putting the antennas in the tray (I'd imagine right in the door, you only need 3.125cm for a 1/4 wave 2.4Ghz antenna), would be the additional RF connector on the tray & grip that can sustain repeated coupling without breaking or incurring excessive loss.

Good points. I honestly think the external GPS is by far a better option in terms of quality of build, reliability and day to day use. I feel the grip could be hit or miss, Break the grip or damage it and poof there goes your wifi/GPS antenna and power source.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 06:28:58 PM
And if you can't use wifi or gps because of the metal body..... how do you think it manages to talk to a wireless flash???

Wifi and RT would have reduced range if they can't get the antenna outside the metal.  A GPS receiver however, deals with signals several orders of magnitude weaker, and would never work acceptably inside a metal body.

as posted elsewhere....


The body is made of magnesium.

Air has a permeability of 1.000 000 37
Magnesium has a permiability of 1.000 12
Steel and iron are around 100
Mu-Metal, used for electromagnet shielding, is around 20,000 to 50,000

Think of permeability as the materials ability to react to (attenuate) radio signals.

In other words, the magnesium body is  for all practical purposes, transparent to electromagnetic waves (radio)..... and even if it wasn't, there are dozens of holes through the metal shell.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: jrista on February 20, 2013, 07:19:22 PM
And if you can't use wifi or gps because of the metal body..... how do you think it manages to talk to a wireless flash???

Wifi and RT would have reduced range if they can't get the antenna outside the metal.  A GPS receiver however, deals with signals several orders of magnitude weaker, and would never work acceptably inside a metal body.

as posted elsewhere....


The body is made of magnesium.

Air has a permeability of 1.000 000 37
Magnesium has a permiability of 1.000 12
Steel and iron are around 100
Mu-Metal, used for electromagnet shielding, is around 20,000 to 50,000

Think of permeability as the materials ability to react to (attenuate) radio signals.

In other words, the magnesium body is  for all practical purposes, transparent to electromagnetic waves (radio).. and even if it wasn't, there are dozens of holes through the metal shell.

Aye, that was the point I was trying to make before. Magnesium is not a particularly useful material for shielding. I can't imagine there being any serious problems.. and heck, if there is, poke another hole in the body and cap the hole with plastic and seal it. From the outside you won't know the difference, except for not needing to hang a giant GPS or WiFi device off one of the ports.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Barrfly on February 20, 2013, 07:46:26 PM
 What I'd really like to see is Canon putting the guys at Magic Lantern on the payroll so all the amazing features can be integrated directly into the firmware. Canon makes some kick ass equipment but holds back on the full potential that we can use.

 I'm sure if even some of these were officially included Wifi and GPS would be taking a back seat. 

 Check out what your camera can do here : http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide (http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide)
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 08:16:06 PM
What I'd really like to see is Canon putting the guys at Magic Lantern on the payroll so all the amazing features can be integrated directly into the firmware.

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: jrista on February 20, 2013, 08:23:03 PM
What I'd really like to see is Canon putting the guys at Magic Lantern on the payroll so all the amazing features can be integrated directly into the firmware.

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!

I've never used ML...but that is quite an endorsement. What do they add that Canon doesn't already have?
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 09:56:28 PM
What I'd really like to see is Canon putting the guys at Magic Lantern on the payroll so all the amazing features can be integrated directly into the firmware.

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!

I've never used ML...but that is quite an endorsement. What do they add that Canon doesn't already have?

There is an intervalometer for time lapse, HDR bracketing, and some very neat exposure modes.... you can do focus trapping, where when something comes into focus, it takes a picture... you can have it take a picture when a programmable amount of the screen changes, good for taking pictures of lightning. There is a lot of video functionality, including sound level controls and programmable bit rates. You can trigger the shutter with sound..... and this is only the subset of the functions I've used.... I have wondered why they are not standard in the Canon offerings....
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Barrfly on February 20, 2013, 10:23:33 PM
What I'd really like to see is Canon putting the guys at Magic Lantern on the payroll so all the amazing features can be integrated directly into the firmware.

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!

I've never used ML...but that is quite an endorsement. What do they add that Canon doesn't already have?

Magic Lantern menu
Audio
Analog Gain (dB)
L-DigitalGain and R-DigitalGain (dB)
Input source
Wind Filter
Mic Power
AGC
Headphone Monitoring
Output volume (dB)
Audio Meters
Expo
WhiteBalance
ISO
Shutter
Aperture
PictureStyle
REC PicStyle
Exp.Override
LV Display
Overlay
Global Draw
Zebras
Focus Peak
Magic Zoom
Cropmarks
Ghost image
Defishing
Spotmeter
False color
Histogram and Waveform
Vectorscope
Movie
Bit Rate
Time Indicator
Movie Logging
Movie Restart
REC/STBY notify
Movie REC key
Force LiveView
Shutter Lock
FPS override
HDR video
Image Effects
Movie Record (50D)
Shutter Button (50D)
Exposure Lock (50D)
Shoot
HDR Bracketing
Intervalometer
Bulb/Focus Ramping
Bulb Timer
LCDsensor Remote
Audio RemoteShot
Motion Detect
Silent Pictures
Mirror Lockup
Flash tweaks
Focus
Trap Focus
Focus Patterns
Follow Focus
Focus StepSize
Focus StepDelay
Focus End Point
Rack Delay
Rack Focus
Stack focus
Focus Dist
Hyperfocal
DOF Near
DOF Far
Display
LV contrast
LV saturation
LV display gain
Color Scheme
Clear Overlays
Focus box (LV)
Force HDMI-VGA
Screen layout settings...
Level Indicator (60D)
Kill Canon GUI
Prefs
Image review settings...
Arrow/SET shortcuts...
Misc key settings...
Auto BurstPicQuality
Powersave in LiveView...
Config file...
LV Display Presets
Crop Factor Display
Display hidden menus
Debug
Screenshot (10 s)
Menu screenshots
Don't click me!
Stability tests
Show tasks...
Save CPU usage log
Free Memory
Shutter Count
CMOS temperature
Battery remaining
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 20, 2013, 11:16:22 PM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 20, 2013, 11:40:27 PM
And if you can't use wifi or gps because of the metal body..... how do you think it manages to talk to a wireless flash???

Wifi and RT would have reduced range if they can't get the antenna outside the metal.  A GPS receiver however, deals with signals several orders of magnitude weaker, and would never work acceptably inside a metal body.

as posted elsewhere....


The body is made of magnesium.

Air has a permeability of 1.000 000 37
Magnesium has a permiability of 1.000 12
Steel and iron are around 100
Mu-Metal, used for electromagnet shielding, is around 20,000 to 50,000

Think of permeability as the materials ability to react to (attenuate) radio signals.

Well that "elsewhere" is wrong.

Copper has a permeability of 0.999994, and it is used for RF shielding; magnetic permeability is not the only important property (in fact in this case it's not important at all).  It is only applicable to static or low frequency fields. The magnesium body effectively becomes a Faraday cage at RF frequencies.

Quote
In other words, the magnesium body is  for all practical purposes, transparent to electromagnetic waves (radio)..... and even if it wasn't, there are dozens of holes through the metal shell.

Sorry, but that is also wholly incorrect. The holes would need to be larger than the wavelength to let the signal through without excessive attenuation.  There are no holes in the body larger than 12.49cm.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 20, 2013, 11:53:55 PM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 21, 2013, 12:23:28 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Ah, I didn't know that, but it makes sense. On the other hand, you are still depending on being within range of a 3G network. At least a couple of years ago the A-GPS was not very accurate whereas the regular GPS was within a couple of meters.  It's a lot better now but still varies alot.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 21, 2013, 12:44:08 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Ah, I didn't know that, but it makes sense. On the other hand, you are still depending on being within range of a 3G network. At least a couple of years ago the A-GPS was not very accurate whereas the regular GPS was within a couple of meters.  It's a lot better now but still varies alot.

A-GPS is sort of an extension of GPS, and is just as accurate (given the same receiver, etc), just faster to start.  I know exactly what you're thinking of though, early cell phones that had GPS...  Their inaccuracy was mainly a function of cheap GPS modules with a limited number of channels.  You technically only need 4 channels to be able to see 4 satellites and get a full 3D lock, but what good is it on a mobile device to have to sit in exactly the same spot for 12 minutes to get the most accurate position?  The more channels you have, the more satellites you can search for concurrently, and in general, the quicker you will achieve an acceptably accurate lock, and the better it can maintain the lock as you move and satellites come in and out of "view".
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 21, 2013, 01:14:34 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Ah, I didn't know that, but it makes sense. On the other hand, you are still depending on being within range of a 3G network. At least a couple of years ago the A-GPS was not very accurate whereas the regular GPS was within a couple of meters.  It's a lot better now but still varies alot.

A-GPS is sort of an extension of GPS, and is just as accurate (given the same receiver, etc), just faster to start.  I know exactly what you're thinking of though, early cell phones that had GPS...  Their inaccuracy was mainly a function of cheap GPS modules with a limited number of channels.  You technically only need 4 channels to be able to see 4 satellites and get a full 3D lock, but what good is it on a mobile device to have to sit in exactly the same spot for 12 minutes to get the most accurate position?  The more channels you have, the more satellites you can search for concurrently, and in general, the quicker you will achieve an acceptably accurate lock, and the better it can maintain the lock as you move and satellites come in and out of "view".
OK, that makes sense, for some reason I thought also that it was because of the network base stations. But I understand better now. Thanks. And going back to subject, I still think it's a good idea to integrate the GPS. I think it will future proof the product in a better way.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: azezal on February 21, 2013, 03:01:12 AM
I hope we get a 7d without a GPS and WiFi option at a slightly lower cost,I'd buy it
Such a camera already exists ... its called the EOS 7D ... its a great camera ... and its on sale these days ... so no need to wait for 7D II

I already have that one, besides high iso noise performance I really don't have a single complaint against my beloved 7d
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 23, 2013, 11:10:42 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Cold start may take longer but I'd rather have it in camera than another device that I have to pull out and go through the hassle of tagging them in PP. At some point someone needs to take the initiative of including them in Semi Pro DLSR's and that's where further progress can be made with faster locking on to the coordinates can be achieved. A good example is Canon 600 EX-RT speedlite ... yes there are some AF issues, but unless the RT was not integrated by one of the big names, there would not have been much progress in this area.
I subscribe to the idea of useful new technologies being integrated into products that can benefit people ... at the moment I see WiFi and GPS as very useful features for a lot of people, especially if the user has the option to turn them off.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: bvukich on February 25, 2013, 12:02:46 PM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Cold start may take longer but I'd rather have it in camera than another device that I have to pull out and go through the hassle of tagging them in PP. At some point someone needs to take the initiative of including them in Semi Pro DLSR's and that's where further progress can be made with faster locking on to the coordinates can be achieved. A good example is Canon 600 EX-RT speedlite ... yes there are some AF issues, but unless the RT was not integrated by one of the big names, there would not have been much progress in this area.
I subscribe to the idea of useful new technologies being integrated into products that can benefit people ... at the moment I see WiFi and GPS as very useful features for a lot of people, especially if the user has the option to turn them off.

I agree completely, the more features the better.  I would just prefer that features that may impact reliability be deployed with extreme caution to "single digit" bodies.  I don't think WiFi of GPS would impact reliability in any appreciable manner (excepting the occasional "battery died because I forgot to turn GPS/WiFi off"), things like swivel screens still worry me though.

Perhaps my fear is unfounded; I never had any problems with my 60D, nor did I ever hear of anyone else having problems.  But I also literally never used it, and haven't missed it one bit on the 5D3.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 26, 2013, 12:56:58 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Cold start may take longer but I'd rather have it in camera than another device that I have to pull out and go through the hassle of tagging them in PP. At some point someone needs to take the initiative of including them in Semi Pro DLSR's and that's where further progress can be made with faster locking on to the coordinates can be achieved. A good example is Canon 600 EX-RT speedlite ... yes there are some AF issues, but unless the RT was not integrated by one of the big names, there would not have been much progress in this area.
I subscribe to the idea of useful new technologies being integrated into products that can benefit people ... at the moment I see WiFi and GPS as very useful features for a lot of people, especially if the user has the option to turn them off.

I agree completely, the more features the better.  I would just prefer that features that may impact reliability be deployed with extreme caution to "single digit" bodies.  I don't think WiFi of GPS would impact reliability in any appreciable manner (excepting the occasional "battery died because I forgot to turn GPS/WiFi off"), things like swivel screens still worry me though.

Perhaps my fear is unfounded; I never had any problems with my 60D, nor did I ever hear of anyone else having problems.  But I also literally never used it, and haven't missed it one bit on the 5D3.
I think that is a very good comment, all features doesn't have to be present throughout the line up. The ways the cameras will be used will differ between the user groups.

Having said that, I don't miss the swivel on my 5D3 either, but I do miss my 60D sometimes. My wife forced me to sell it as it doesn't makes sense for me to have two SLR bodies.
Title: Re: 7D Mark ii with WiFi/GPS or Without?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 27, 2013, 01:33:22 AM
I think the GPS is a useless addon, provided you have a smartphone + an inexpensive appli like GPS4cam. It offers IMO the same benefits of an integrated GPS. I'd rather like Canon focus on photographic specs rather than these useless peripheral specs, that cost a lot for a very weak added value. The smartphones HAVE a GPS, we have a smartphone always with us, bar.
About the WIFI, this could be differerent, but there is too a dedicated grip... So ? I really do prefer high iso performances for less MP, weather sealing, and a lower price... I'm maybe old fashioned ?
Disagree
I do not belive that an in camera GPS is going to add a lot of cost to the camera. I'd rather have it in camera than pulling out the smart phone, capture the GPS coordinates, identify the image to add the coordinates in post process sounds like too much of a hassle. I subscribe to the idea of have everything but give the users the option to turn them on/off.
+1
please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but the camera will have a 'true' GPS, meaning a GPS that will function on its own, whereas a smart phone only has the aGPS meaning assisted GPS where it will need a Wifi connection or 3G connection to be able to obtain its position. + the extra hassle of having to connect it to the phone and all that annoying stuff that won't work properly anyway, no I'm not a fan of having to rely on my phone and in this case some home cooked app too much.

The problem with GPS without A-GPS is how long a cold start takes.  The transfer rate from a satellite is extremely slow, and even though it's only a couple kB it can take quite a while, and only then can it attempt to acquire a lock.  A-GPS has the benefits of being able to download that data from a faster source, and having a rough estimate of current location so it can determine where it is way faster.
Cold start may take longer but I'd rather have it in camera than another device that I have to pull out and go through the hassle of tagging them in PP. At some point someone needs to take the initiative of including them in Semi Pro DLSR's and that's where further progress can be made with faster locking on to the coordinates can be achieved. A good example is Canon 600 EX-RT speedlite ... yes there are some AF issues, but unless the RT was not integrated by one of the big names, there would not have been much progress in this area.
I subscribe to the idea of useful new technologies being integrated into products that can benefit people ... at the moment I see WiFi and GPS as very useful features for a lot of people, especially if the user has the option to turn them off.

I agree completely, the more features the better.  I would just prefer that features that may impact reliability be deployed with extreme caution to "single digit" bodies.  I don't think WiFi of GPS would impact reliability in any appreciable manner (excepting the occasional "battery died because I forgot to turn GPS/WiFi off"), things like swivel screens still worry me though.

Perhaps my fear is unfounded; I never had any problems with my 60D, nor did I ever hear of anyone else having problems.  But I also literally never used it, and haven't missed it one bit on the 5D3.
I used the swivel screen a lot on my 60D, but I sold it last week to one of my colleauges as I was hardly using it ever since I bought the 5D MK III (last August) and TBH, I did not miss the swivel screen ... maybe I am just in awe of my "first full frame" DSLR. But I do see swivel screen's usefulness for people like me who are nearing 50 (or above) and having difficult time getting up quickly after crouching/lying down on the floor for a nice shot of a flower or some macro shot etc  ;D ... so let's settle this disagreement into what we can agree on: Swivel screen for old farts like me and no swivel screen for strapping young lads like yourself  ;D ... I have taken the liberty of assuming you are a young lad, but no disrespect intended ... I meant it as a compliment.