canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Third Party Manufacturers => Topic started by: Bobhabib on February 20, 2013, 06:41:19 PM

Title: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Bobhabib on February 20, 2013, 06:41:19 PM
Unleash the power of Nikon’s DX-format HD-SLR system.
Meet the new flagship of Nikon’s outstanding DX-format HD-SLR line-up: the D7100. Incorporating recent
advancements in HD-SLR technology, the D7100 brings a thrilling new level of image quality, speed, connectivity
and creative capabilities—a specially designed 24.1-megapixel DX-format image sensor, superior low-light
performance, ultra-precise autofocus and metering, advanced video recording features, built-in HDR, mobile
connectivity and much, much more. Pair it with any of Nikon’s superb NIKKOR DX- and FX-format lenses, versatile
Speedlights and accessories, and the D7100 will be the centerpiece of your creativity for years to come.

Capture every detail true to life
Pure. Sharp Images.
The D7100 marks an exciting advancement in image quality for high-resolution DX-format cameras. Nikon
specially designed its 24.1-megapixel DX-format CMOS sensor without using an optical low pass filter (OLPF),
resulting in the purest, sharpest images using D7100 DX-format CMOS sensor. Your photos and videos will
come alive with brilliant detail and vibrance. Combine that with fantastic ISO performance at both ends of the
spectrum—down to ISO 100 and up to ISO 6400—the processing speed and intelligence of EXPEED 3 and the
extra lens reach of a 1.5x crop factor, and the D7100 is the ultimate tool for those seeking a lightweight
DX-format HD-SLR.

Speed and precision in harmony

High-speed shooting with flawless metering and autofocus.
When the action speeds up, fire a blazing fast 6 frames per second continuously for up to 100 shots. Building on
the acclaimed autofocus system from the D300s, the D7100 uses 51 focus points, including 15 cross-type sensors
for detecting both vertical and horizontal contrast variations, to achieve fast, precise focus. The central cross-type
sensor works all the way down to f/8, a huge advantage when using compatible teleconverters. At the same time,
a highly accurate 2016-pixel RGB sensor evaluates every scene, taking into account brightness, contrast, subject
distance and color, for spot-on auto operations like Face-Priority and full-time autofocus during video capture.

Wireless sharing and control
Compatible with the WU-1a Wireless Mobile Adapter.
The D7100 makes it easy to share your great photos immediately, wherever you are. Connect the optional WU-1a
Wireless Mobile Adapter and instantly transfer shots to a compatible smartphone or tablet, then upload them to
the web, send by email or text—share them however you like. With Nikon’s free Wireless Mobile Utility installed on
your smartphone or tablet (available for both Android and iOS), you can also remotely control the D7100. Use your
phone or tablet as a Live View monitor to take shots without having the camera in your hands, a huge advantage for
everything from self portraits to digiscoping with a Nikon fieldscope.

Create movies that amaze
Dazzling 1080p videos, slow-motion and time-lapse sequences.
With full-time autofocus and manual exposure control during video recording, a built-in stereo mic and an external
stereo mic jack, headphone and HDMI jacks, the D7100 achieves exceptional cinematic reproduction and quality.
Record in several high-definition formats: 1080p at 60i/50i/30/25/24 fps or 720p at up to 60p for ultra-smooth
slow-motion sequences. Dual SD card slots give you additional recording time, and an all new 60i function enables
smooth playback on HDTVs or external monitors. And, of course, every shot looks great through a NIKKOR lens.
Create beautiful background blur with the AF-S DX NIKKOR 35mm f/1.8G, or use the AF-S DX NIKKOR 10-24mm
for an ultra-wide-angle view that’s perfect for establishing shots and working in tight interiors.

Creativity on demand
The D7100 will inspire your creativity to new heights.
Built-in HDR (High Dynamic Range) combines shots taken simultaneously at different exposures into one beautifully
rich, high-contrast image. Picture Control gives you instant access to the color characteristics of your images, and
spot White Balance control for Live View shooting makes setting the white balance as easy as pointing to the area
in the frame that should be white. You can even apply artistic Image Effects to both stills and videos in real-time.
High-end design

The D7100 has the comfortable handling and durability of a high-end Nikon camera.
Durable magnesium alloy with moisture and dust resistance protects the camera’s internal parts from the elements.
A new 3.2-inch ultra-high-resolution 1,229K-dot LCD monitor provides crisp image playback, menu adjustments
and Live View shooting, and a new viewfinder with a low-power consumption OLED display element for bright,
high contrast data readout and provides approx. 100% frame coverage.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 20, 2013, 06:50:38 PM
Building on
the acclaimed autofocus system from the D300s, the D7100 uses 51 focus points, including 15 cross-type sensors
for detecting both vertical and horizontal contrast variations, to achieve fast, precise focus.

51 focus points and 15 cross? Bah, only Nikon sissies need that, real photogs use 9/9 (60d) or 11/1 (6d) for an added challenge :-p
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Jesse on February 20, 2013, 06:54:47 PM
Alright Canon, time to respond... with some lenses!!!!!
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: red5 on February 20, 2013, 06:55:22 PM
Ok... come one 7D MkII, show'em your stuff.....when you get announced. lol
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 07:00:37 PM
I love the marketing.... "a blazing fast 6 frames per second"... sounds way better than saying "a relatively slow 6 frames per second".... kind of reminds me of a Simpsons episode where grandpa says "He used to be smart as a chimp but now he's as dumb as an ape"
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 20, 2013, 07:19:15 PM
I love the marketing.... "a blazing fast 6 frames per second"

The real question with Nikon is usually if the highest fps only persists for the first few frames and then changes to crawl-mode (this is the case with the original d7000 and the d600) or if the buffer is deeper this time. So not to defend Nikon, but 6 continuous(?) fps with 24mp(!) in raw(?) mode imho would qualify as fast, it's the data rate vs fps that matters.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Don Haines on February 20, 2013, 07:24:07 PM
More marketing speak....

"Combine that with fantastic ISO performance at both ends of the spectrum—down to ISO 100 and up to ISO 6400"

Kind of makes 6400 sound like the upper limit.... and who cares what the lower limit is, that's why there ND filters.. I can slap a ND8 filter on at ISO100 and shoot like it's ISO12
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: twcull on February 20, 2013, 07:44:47 PM
It will be interesting to see how Canon will respond if this is true. D300s AF system ... hmm interesting.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: preppyak on February 20, 2013, 07:52:48 PM
More marketing speak....

"Combine that with fantastic ISO performance at both ends of the spectrum—down to ISO 100 and up to ISO 6400"

Kind of makes 6400 sound like the upper limit.... and who cares what the lower limit is, that's why there ND filters.. I can slap a ND8 filter on at ISO100 and shoot like it's ISO12
You mean there is marketing speak in a press release? Stunning!

Comparing it to the 7dII spec list that got posted the other day, Canon's variation would top it in AF and frame rate, but we'll see if video features also means headphone jack, etc. And how will it compare at both ISO 100 and 6400. And that's not even counting the price; gonna be interesting to see what they both come in at.

May well be that Canon can out-do Nikon in the APS-C realm
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Andreos on February 20, 2013, 08:43:51 PM
Did I miss the spec for the number of dust particles deposited on the sensor per shutter release?   ;D
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: dlleno on February 20, 2013, 09:26:55 PM
interesting stuff.  7D2 should spank in all areas with the possible exception of the sensor.  Is this really the 7D2 competition? or the D600?  pardon the question I'm not that familiar with Nikon lineup.  In any case  this will be an interesting show to watch, esp the DxO treatment.   It will give Canon a little time to update the firmware with last minute features :-)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: twcull on February 20, 2013, 10:25:05 PM
I'm sure the site traffic has increased significantly in the last hour.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: verysimplejason on February 20, 2013, 10:50:46 PM
meanwhile, hopefully, this will bring down 7D2's initial price a little bit.  hopefully again, the CR2 specs isn't just a hoax.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: HeavenHell on February 20, 2013, 11:40:22 PM
Detailed Nikon D7100 specs:
 •24.1MP CMOS sensor
 •6fps
 •No AA filter (similar to the D800E)
 •51 AF point, 15 cross-type
 •Built-in HDR function
 •2016-pixel RGB sensor
 •3.2" 1,229k dots LCD screen
 •Dual SD card slots
 •EXPEED 3 processor
 •ISO range: 100-6400
 •100% viewfinder coverage
 •Video: 1080p @ 60i/50i/30/25/24 fps plus 720p @ 60p
 •Compatible with the WU-1a wireless mobile adapter

One thing I found interesting was the

1.3x crop mode:
 This mode boosts your lens' focal range by 1.3x which translates to a 1.95x crop, much like a Micro Four Thirds camera. This gives you extra zoom capabilities without the hassle of changing lenses.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: shtfmeister on February 21, 2013, 12:37:52 AM
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/ (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: shtfmeister on February 21, 2013, 12:41:38 AM
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/ (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 21, 2013, 12:49:03 AM
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/ (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/)

There's some more detailed information here:

Quote
New 51-Point AF System - The D7100 features Nikon’s professionally proven and lightning-fast 51-point AF system, with a new Multi-CAM 3500DX AF module. Additionally, the AF system and exposure are augmented with Nikon’s 3D Color Matrix Metering II 2,016-pixel RGB sensor and Scene Recognition System, which recognizes the scene prior to shooting in order to adjust AF, AE, AWB and other parameters. The results of this system are accurate and even exposures, sharp details and vivid color, frame after frame. For additional precision, 15 of the 51 AF points are cross-type, and the center point is functional at f/8, giving DX photographers an additional telephoto advantage when using a teleconverter.

So f8 af and rgb metering? Let's see if Canon will put these 1dx-features in the 7d2... but the really interesting point driving the water to may eyes (7d2 estimated >$2000...):

Quote
The Nikon D7100 will be available starting in March 2013 for the suggested retail price (SRP) of $1599.95* with the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6 VR lens or $1199.95 for the body only configuration.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: xps on February 21, 2013, 12:51:47 AM
And again: Nikon did it right.
Let us see, if the 7D2 is the plus of 600-800$ worth, when the 7D2 will come on market in the End of 2013.
The 7100 will be availaböle in some weeks....

Friends of mine told me that they read in an Nikon blog this night that the 7100 will be able to use UHS-I cards. If you use 2 of  theses, 6 fps in raw will be able. continuously. And using lenses with an "maximal" aperture of 8!!!
 I do not know if this is really right, but we will see in some days, when the first users will hold the Cam in their hands.

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: xps on February 21, 2013, 12:54:27 AM
1200$! what a price.... :(
Canon needs an cash cow.... And i will be the cow....
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: verysimplejason on February 21, 2013, 01:03:49 AM
mouth-watering... again... good job Nikon.   :o
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: that1guyy on February 21, 2013, 01:24:31 AM
It seems it will compete more with the 70D than a 7D mark ii. I wish they had put in a swivel screen and 60p 1080p. Disappointed.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 21, 2013, 01:31:30 AM
This looks to be a great piece of equipment. Great for the competition. But the price seems very low. Are they doing the same mistake here as they did with the D800 and selling it too cheap?

Just a note, when it comes to the 6D taking only SD and the 5D3 having one SD and 'only' one CF slot, a lot of people have come down hard on that deeming the cameras being close to useless. Where are they now when this one takes only SDs?
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 21, 2013, 01:36:41 AM
Disappointed.

Yes, it's more a 70d (my guess $1400+, iif it even exists) equivalent ... but disappointing? For $1200?! Starting Price! This is so economical I first thought it would be a typo - probably that's why Canon will expand the ff route like their CEO recently said, more money to be made in the high-end enthusiast's segment. The only positive news for Canon: The d7100 will be sold out for months, so Canon will have some time to counter.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: ishdakuteb on February 21, 2013, 01:43:18 AM
i do not see low light captured images this time though?  normally, nikon will post some of low light capture images on any new models, but not this one.  however, imo, look like the photographer was pulling fill light on the first image quite a bit (note:  take a look at yellow color exposing directly to sunlight and beneath water - camera angle was not perpendicular with water surface; therefore, reflect light from water will be lost and will be dark in the image since the photographer was trying to get correct color from the plane.  however, this is just a guess based on my understanding about light... nothing scientific though.  in addition, set of exposure at 1/500 seconds, f/11 with iso 100 is normally for bright snow to my understanding...)

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d7100/sample.htm (http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d7100/sample.htm)

in short, nice capturing images and all are sharp to my taste...  i am not a nikon everyday user, but only weekend at costco, so put it in costco warehouse for me to play around with :P

canon... canon... canon... where is my 7d mark ii, do not turn me down and please post un-edited for us to see please...
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: nicku on February 21, 2013, 01:44:22 AM
Great job Nikon.... another slap in the Canon face.... let's see Canon response.... I personally doubt...
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: xps on February 21, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Disappointed.

Yes, it's more a 70d (my guess $1400+, iif it even exists) equivalent ... but disappointing? For $1200?! Starting Price! This is so economical I first thought it would be a typo - probably that's why Canon will expand the ff route like their CEO recently said, more money to be made in the high-end enthusiast's segment. The only positive news for Canon: The d7100 will be sold out for months, so Canon will have some time to counter.

+1
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: xps on February 21, 2013, 01:54:41 AM
The 7100 seems to have an very good IQ with low noise up to Iso 6400.
 Better superb IQ @6400 then low IQ @25600....

And, this Cam has an  an very good AF with an big AF area in the screen. And Able to use lenses with an maximal aperture of 8!
(Nikon blog)

(I would be pleased to use my 100-400 with my 1,4 III converter on the 7D2....)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: ishdakuteb on February 21, 2013, 01:55:36 AM
Disappointed.

Yes, it's more a 70d (my guess $1400+, iif it even exists) equivalent ... but disappointing? For $1200?! Starting Price! This is so economical I first thought it would be a typo - probably that's why Canon will expand the ff route like their CEO recently said, more money to be made in the high-end enthusiast's segment. The only positive news for Canon: The d7100 will be sold out for months, so Canon will have some time to counter.

+1

i GUESS it is pretty hard for nikon to sold out d7100 as soon as they want since nikon users already hear about the rumors of nikon d400
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: xps on February 21, 2013, 02:07:21 AM
Disappointed.

Yes, it's more a 70d (my guess $1400+, iif it even exists) equivalent ... but disappointing? For $1200?! Starting Price! This is so economical I first thought it would be a typo - probably that's why Canon will expand the ff route like their CEO recently said, more money to be made in the high-end enthusiast's segment. The only positive news for Canon: The d7100 will be sold out for months, so Canon will have some time to counter.

+1

i GUESS it is pretty hard for nikon to sold out d7100 as soon as they want since nikon users already hear about the rumors of nikon d400

This was discussed on an Nikon blog too: The D400 will an high end crop model. priced between the D600 and 800. Very fast AF, many cross sensors, maybe continuous raw shooting @5 fps. UHS-I fast cards....
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: xps on February 21, 2013, 02:19:05 AM
One question: New sensor technology by using "white" dots (not only red green blue) to get really white dots. Does thaht Canon use too in the newer Cams?
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: ishdakuteb on February 21, 2013, 02:32:25 AM
One question: New sensor technology by using "white" dots (not only red green blue) to get really white dots. Does thaht Canon use too in the newer Cams?

i do not know the answer to your question :) however, i think the white dots are used to adjust brightness of nikon display?  i hate auto brightness though.  my 5d mark iii auto brightness was driving me nut during first use of shooting a wedding (note:  fyi, i am not wedding photographer.  i just want to learn while shooting though :)) )
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Danielle on February 21, 2013, 03:19:12 AM
So does this mean the d300s died? Or is this only one of possibly 2 high end crops?

No aa filter, interesting. Canon's about to be beaten hard it seems. I hope they at least have the option of no aa filter yet.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 21, 2013, 03:21:40 AM
The 7100 seems to have an very good IQ with low noise up to Iso 6400.
 Better superb IQ @6400 then low IQ @25600....


(I would be pleased to use my 100-400 with my 1,4 III converter on the 7D2....)
and you base that on what?
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: SJ on February 21, 2013, 03:35:15 AM
Wow, another good product from nikon, maybe the next 7d2/another canon camera will be better than before  8)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Ladislav on February 21, 2013, 03:39:14 AM
It looks like everybody compares D7100 with 7D2 rumors but in my opinion this camera should be competition to 70D ... Specs are really interesting with very nice price tag but we will see how it performs in the real world situations. I'm especially interested in reviews of ISO performance, f/8 center point AF and how IQ is affected by missing low pass filter.

I would really like to see some Nikon features to become standard in Canon enthusiasts level cameras as well. For example 100% viewfinder and 2 SD card slots.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: verysimplejason on February 21, 2013, 04:02:21 AM
It looks like everybody compares D7100 with 7D2 rumors but in my opinion this camera should be competition to 70D ... Specs are really interesting with very nice price tag but we will see how it performs in the real world situations. I'm especially interested in reviews of ISO performance, f/8 center point AF and how IQ is affected by missing low pass filter.

I would really like to see some Nikon features to become standard in Canon enthusiasts level cameras as well. For example 100% viewfinder and 2 SD card slots.

I bet 70D will have an 11 or 9 points AF, 1 SD card slot, smaller and priced almost the same as D7100.  Viewfinder will be around 95-97%.  :(
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: AvTvM on February 21, 2013, 05:14:43 AM
YES Nikon, bring 'em on!  8)

oh boy, I just love this!

D7100 makes the 70D look a total looser already. Destroyed on the ground. I confidently expect the D7100 sensor to have 1.5 EV better dynamic range and way better per-pixel sharpness than whatever sorry ppiece of sensor cr*p Canon will be willing to put into the 70D ... bye bye AA-Filter!

And iI also expect the price to be lower than the 70D ... like D7000 vs. 60D and D800 vs. 5D III ... hehehehe!

Really hope, Nikon will soon follow this up with a D400  that destroys an "incrmentally updated" 7D Mk II - as per the CR specs (!). Double whammy!

Canon needs to be pressed flat against the wall ...  maybe that'll wake them up and they get back to bring truly  innovative and meaningful new products.

I for one would like a 5D IV please, with 1D-X AF-system, sensor with better DR than D800, innovative Eye Control Focus v 2.0, built-in Canon-RT radio commander, X-sanc 1/500s. Price? Like Nikon D800.   
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: nicku on February 21, 2013, 05:48:39 AM
YES Nikon, bring 'em on!  8)

oh boy, I just love this!

D7100 makes the 70D look a total looser already. Destroyed on the ground. I confidently expect the D7100 sensor to have 1.5 EV better dynamic range and way better per-pixel sharpness than whatever sorry ppiece of sensor cr*p Canon will be willing to put into the 70D ... bye bye AA-Filter!

And iI also expect the price to be lower than the 70D ... like D7000 vs. 60D and D800 vs. 5D III ... hehehehe!

Really hope, Nikon will soon follow this up with a D400  that destroys an "incrmentally updated" 7D Mk II - as per the CR specs (!). Double whammy!

Canon needs to be pressed flat against the wall ...  maybe that'll wake them up and they get back to bring truly  innovative and meaningful new products.

I for one would like a 5D IV please, with 1D-X AF-system, sensor with better DR than D800, innovative Eye Control Focus v 2.0, built-in Canon-RT radio commander, X-sanc 1/500s. Price? Like Nikon D800.

A BIG +1 ..... right on the spot.

Canon gather up yourself.... you are destroyed by Nikon.

A lot more features packed in the cameras ( vs Canon DSLR offer) at a much lower price......
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: RLPhoto on February 21, 2013, 06:38:07 AM
YES Nikon, bring 'em on!  8)

oh boy, I just love this!

D7100 makes the 70D look a total looser already. Destroyed on the ground. I confidently expect the D7100 sensor to have 1.5 EV better dynamic range and way better per-pixel sharpness than whatever sorry ppiece of sensor cr*p Canon will be willing to put into the 70D ... bye bye AA-Filter!

And iI also expect the price to be lower than the 70D ... like D7000 vs. 60D and D800 vs. 5D III ... hehehehe!

Really hope, Nikon will soon follow this up with a D400  that destroys an "incrmentally updated" 7D Mk II - as per the CR specs (!). Double whammy!

Canon needs to be pressed flat against the wall ...  maybe that'll wake them up and they get back to bring truly  innovative and meaningful new products.

I for one would like a 5D IV please, with 1D-X AF-system, sensor with better DR than D800, innovative Eye Control Focus v 2.0, built-in Canon-RT radio commander, X-sanc 1/500s. Price? Like Nikon D800.

Yes nikon, please awaken the slumber giant that is Canon Inc.

It kinda reminds me when Intel was loseing out big time to AMD on the Athlon and Opteron market for years. Then Intel said enough, and I've never seen AMD recover fully.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Ricku on February 21, 2013, 07:38:42 AM
Another body from Nikon without AA-filter. Well done.

And Canon still has zero.  :'( Could this be because of their love for video?
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Ricku on February 21, 2013, 07:44:22 AM
YES Nikon, bring 'em on!  8)

oh boy, I just love this!

D7100 makes the 70D look a total looser already. Destroyed on the ground. I confidently expect the D7100 sensor to have 1.5 EV better dynamic range and way better per-pixel sharpness than whatever sorry ppiece of sensor cr*p Canon will be willing to put into the 70D ... bye bye AA-Filter!

And iI also expect the price to be lower than the 70D ... like D7000 vs. 60D and D800 vs. 5D III ... hehehehe!

Really hope, Nikon will soon follow this up with a D400  that destroys an "incrmentally updated" 7D Mk II - as per the CR specs (!). Double whammy!
Yes, yes and yes.

I agree with everything you said, but strangely enough, Canon will easily outsell the D7100, just like outsold the D800 with the 5D3.

Canon is still riding high on their "good name", and it seems they'll be able to do so for many years ahead.  :-\ Sad but true.

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 21, 2013, 08:48:00 AM
The D7100 sure sounds like a good option for sports/wildlife shooters.  If only Nikon had an optically good 400mm f/5.6 lens (prime or zoom) to go with it.  ::)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: EchoLocation on February 21, 2013, 08:53:27 AM
51 point AF, $1199 for the body, 100% view finder coverage, magnification 0.73, 24.1MP @6fps

This camera is going to wipe the floor with the 70D.
Sad, but so true.
I'm really happy I left the Canon ship a while ago and got a D700. Nikon is killing it recently.

I think other's are wrong though comparing this camera to the 60D/70D line, isn't that more comparable to the D5200?
D3200=650D
D5200=60D
D7100=7D
D600=6D
D800=5DIII
D800E=_____
D4=1DX
The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception(I understand pros love Canon for a reason, etc, i'm just saying.)

It could be that Canon heard the specs of this camera and delayed or changed the 70D launch to switch it up a little bit(maybe/maybe not possible.) Because based on the rumored "incremental update" of the 70D, it isn't even close.
Canon would be wise to match the 70D to the D7100 spec wise, and then release the 7DII against the mythical D400, with all the above, fully weather sealed, metal body, AFMA, crazy AF, and 10FPS at around $2000 to grab the pro APS-C market.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 21, 2013, 09:02:12 AM
The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception(I understand pros love Canon for a reason, etc, i'm just saying.)

So, you're saying that "public perception" is that Nikon is "dominating" the matchups?  Is your definition of "public" taken to mean, "People who frequent internet forums devoted to Nikon cameras and people who frequent internet forums devoted to Canon cameras for the primary purpose of trolling?" 

Because the "public" who actually buy dSLRs, as opposed to those who just write about them on the internet, seem to buy a lot more Canon dSLRs than Nikon dSLRs, which is why Canon has been and, as of the latest available data, still is "dominating" the market.

I'm just saying...   ::)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Meh on February 21, 2013, 09:11:52 AM
The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception(I understand pros love Canon for a reason, etc, i'm just saying.)

So, you're saying that "public perception" is that Nikon is "dominating" the matchups?  Is your definition of "public" taken to mean, "People who frequent internet forums devoted to Nikon cameras and people who frequent internet forums devoted to Canon cameras for the primary purpose of trolling?" 

Because the "public" who actually buy dSLRs, as opposed to those who just write about them on the internet, seem to buy a lot more Canon dSLRs than Nikon dSLRs, which is why Canon has been and, as of the latest available data, still is "dominating" the market.

I'm just saying...   ::)

Again with your rational, logical, and fact-based analysis... please, that has no place on the Internet.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: EchoLocation on February 21, 2013, 09:28:43 AM
The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception(I understand pros love Canon for a reason, etc, i'm just saying.)

So, you're saying that "public perception" is that Nikon is "dominating" the matchups?  Is your definition of "public" taken to mean, "People who frequent internet forums devoted to Nikon cameras and people who frequent internet forums devoted to Canon cameras for the primary purpose of trolling?" 

Because the "public" who actually buy dSLRs, as opposed to those who just write about them on the internet, seem to buy a lot more Canon dSLRs than Nikon dSLRs, which is why Canon has been and, as of the latest available data, still is "dominating" the market.

I'm just saying...   ::)
well, I live in China, so I don't really know much besides what I see here, and what I read on internet forums.
My friends here in China love the Nikon releases. People on internet forums also seem pretty impressed with the recent Nikon releases. People on Canon Rumors love Canon stuff, but in many other places the general majority seems to have a really strong opinion of recent Nikon releases with a bit more critical reception of recent Canon releases. Canon is the sales leader, but as we all know, that doesn't necessarily make them better. Even your main criticism of this camera isn't the camera but the glass.
 I chose Canon first long before I switched to Nikon. I am not a born and bred Canon basher or a troll.
Are you trying to tell me that all the people in this thread praising the D7100 are here "for the primary purpose of trolling"?
I have been looking at CanonRumors for years. I was hoping for a 7DII, 5DIII, and 24-70 when I didn't know squat about anything Nikon. Just face it, if you don't have unlimited money to spend on gear, Canon's releases over the past few years have been pretty damn depressing.
 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: docsmith on February 21, 2013, 09:36:34 AM
The specs and price look impressive.  And Nikon has been doing a lot of that lately.  Good for them.  But I am not ready to abandon the good ship Canon over a camera that I will likely never own.

Also, the whole "spec" thing....I remember threads bashing the Canon 6D and praising the D600....but once people actually started taking pictures with the 6D...turns out, it was a pretty darn nice camera.  Good enough for Roger/Lens Rentals.  And while I am sure the D600 is a nice camera, it wasn't crushing the 6D in hands-on reviews that I've seen...
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: EchoLocation on February 21, 2013, 09:40:09 AM
The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception(I understand pros love Canon for a reason, etc, i'm just saying.)

So, you're saying that "public perception" is that Nikon is "dominating" the matchups?  Is your definition of "public" taken to mean, "People who frequent internet forums devoted to Nikon cameras and people who frequent internet forums devoted to Canon cameras for the primary purpose of trolling?" 

Because the "public" who actually buy dSLRs, as opposed to those who just write about them on the internet, seem to buy a lot more Canon dSLRs than Nikon dSLRs, which is why Canon has been and, as of the latest available data, still is "dominating" the market.

I'm just saying...   ::)

Again with your rational, logical, and fact-based analysis... please, that has no place on the Internet.
Was my initial post really that off the mark?
I have all the respect for Neuro in the world. He is obviously one of the most intelligent people on any internet forum.
But, he is also a GIANT Canon fanboy and it never seems as though price is a consideration for him.
He IS rational, but it doesn't mean that my opinions are irrational.
Price IS an issue for me, and based on ALL factors regarding cameras, i haven't been too thrilled with Canon's releases.
Lets face it, the D7100 destroys an incrementally upgraded 60D, and I'm pretty sure I remember the 7DII's rumored price to be around $2K.
I sincerely hope(as other's have said) that Canon comes back swinging and really offers something fantastic, competetion is good for everyone.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 21, 2013, 09:58:46 AM
...it doesn't mean that my opinions are irrational.
Price IS an issue for me, and based on ALL factors regarding cameras, i haven't been too thrilled with Canon's releases.

Your opinion was quite rational, as was your decision to switch to Nikon.  Personally, if my main purpose was to shoot landscapes, I'd be shooting with a D800, 14-24/2.8G and a PC-E 24mm.  Put that in a fanboy pipe and smoke it.   :P

The problem is when someone (and you're not the only one who does this) takes a statement like, "I think the recent Nikon dSLR releases are much better than the recent Canon dSLR releases," and somehow translates that into, "Most people think Nikon is dominating Canon."  First off, your opinion is not everyone's opinion, or even most people's opinion.  My opinion is not everyone's opinion, either, for that matter.  That's why I often bring up sales figures - it's an aggregate way of assessing everyone's 'opinion' based on their buying choices.  Sure, there are lots of factors that go into those buying decisions - features, cost, compatibility with current equipment, what their friends use, etc.  But it's an objective measure, unlike all of the hot air (or electrons, as the case may be) that we read on internet forums.

Another problem is the evaluation of the camera in isolation, or worse, basing an evaluation on sensor performance alone.  You state ALL factors regarding cameras, but both a camera and a lens are needed to take pictures.  Sometimes, a flash is needed, too.  It's the 'camera system' that takes pictures, not just a camera or a sensor alone.  So, it's important to view it in that light - consider your overall needs and budget for a system, and buy accordingly.  If one brand offers the best body in the world, but lesser lens choices, that's something to be aware of...

Finally, most of this really doesn't matter.  Sure, there are a few examples of images that can only be taken with Canon vs. Nikon gear (MP-E 65mm and 17mm tilt-shift shots, ultrawide shots with an image-stabilized lens, etc.).  But for the most part, it's much less about the gear itself than about the person using it to make images.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: rs on February 21, 2013, 10:06:30 AM
Canon would be wise to match the 70D to the D7100 spec wise, and then release the 7DII against the mythical D400, with all the above, fully weather sealed, metal body, AFMA, crazy AF, and 10FPS at around $2000 to grab the pro APS-C market.
According to dpreview, the D7100 is the replacement for the D300S, and actually the D300S is already discontinued in Europe:

Quote from: dpreview
Overall then, despite some minor niggles, the D7100 seems like a very strong release, which represents very stiff competition to Canon's venerable EOS 7D as well as its 60D. It also appears - finally - to have supplanted the D300S as Nikon's top-end DX-format DSLR. In fact in Europe at least, the D7100 is officially being billed by Nikon as its new 'flagship DX' camera, the D300S finally disappearing from the lineup, off into the sunset. The D300S, a modest update of the D300 has been looking increasingly anachronistic for some time now, being essentially a 6 year-old design. The D7100, in contrast, promises to be relevant for some time to come and we're looking forward to getting hold of a reviewable sample very soon.
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-d7100/5 (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-d7100/5)

This is the second time Nikon have removed high end bodies from their crop body line-up. First time round when the D2Xs/D2Hs models were replaced with a FF D3 - at which point the bulky D300 became the high end crop. Second time around when the D300/D300S was effectively superseded by the D700 (and then D800) and then finally discontinued when the even lower end and more compact D7100 was announced.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: EchoLocation on February 21, 2013, 10:43:15 AM
...it doesn't mean that my opinions are irrational.
Price IS an issue for me, and based on ALL factors regarding cameras, i haven't been too thrilled with Canon's releases.

Your opinion was quite rational, as was your decision to switch to Nikon.  Personally, if my main purpose was to shoot landscapes, I'd be shooting with a D800, 14-24/2.8G and a PC-E 24mm.  Put that in a fanboy pipe and smoke it.   :P

The problem is when someone (and you're not the only one who does this) takes a statement like, "I think the recent Nikon dSLR releases are much better than the recent Canon dSLR releases," and somehow translates that into, "Most people think Nikon is dominating Canon."  First off, your opinion is not everyone's opinion, or even most people's opinion.  My opinion is not everyone's opinion, either, for that matter.  That's why I often bring up sales figures - it's an aggregate way of assessing everyone's 'opinion' based on their buying choices.  Sure, there are lots of factors that go into those buying decisions - features, cost, compatibility with current equipment, what their friends use, etc.  But it's an objective measure, unlike all of the hot air (or electrons, as the case may be) that we read on internet forums.

Another problem is the evaluation of the camera in isolation, or worse, basing an evaluation on sensor performance alone.  You state ALL factors regarding cameras, but both a camera and a lens are needed to take pictures.  Sometimes, a flash is needed, too.  It's the 'camera system' that takes pictures, not just a camera or a sensor alone.  So, it's important to view it in that light - consider your overall needs and budget for a system, and buy accordingly.  If one brand offers the best body in the world, but lesser lens choices, that's something to be aware of...

Finally, most of this really doesn't matter.  Sure, there are a few examples of images that can only be taken with Canon vs. Nikon gear (MP-E 65mm and 17mm tilt-shift shots, ultrawide shots with an image-stabilized lens, etc.).  But for the most part, it's much less about the gear itself than about the person using it to make images.
Neuro, i definitely think you're the man, and I agree with you in many aspects of what you're saying.
I'm simply stating my opinion, which we all agree I am welcome to have.
This sight would be a boring place if everyone on here simply loved all things Canon and hated all things Nikon.
I am happy with the camera system I have chosen, and you are happy with yours. You are right that it would be nearly impossible to tell our photos apart based on our gear.
Disagreeing is what makes the world an interesting place.

While selling more cameras is a strong case for Canon being a superior system, it is not the end all be all of which camera is better. Pointing this out in every argument(as someone always does) does not mean that Canon wins anymore than the fact that people raving about the D7100 specs in this thread make it a better camera than Canon's future offering(or for that matter DXO scores, etc.)

I really appreciate this website and forum and I want to thank the Admin and all the other regulars on here for the constantly enjoyable posts and banter.

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Albi86 on February 21, 2013, 10:56:32 AM
I think both Canon and Nikon are trying to create a FF + APS-C combo for enthusiasts - which means, trying to sell you both D600/6D and D7100/7D2. That, or you buy a 5D3/D800.

The high-end crop line has basically everything except what a small sensor makes impossible to have - and for that they have affordable FF cameras.

All in all, though, it must be remarked that D7100 + D600 is roughly as much as a 5D3 alone.

That said, a camera specced like the D7100 at that price point is just awesome - though Nikon fans are complaining for not enough FPS and presumably non exceptional high-iso performance of a 24MP sensor. In fact, I still think Nikon might release a D400 with lower MP count and higher FPS and better high-iso performance.

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: justsomedude on February 21, 2013, 11:07:11 AM
Price IS an issue for me, and based on ALL factors regarding cameras, i haven't been too thrilled with Canon's releases.

Echo- 

Don't sweat the fanbois on here.  There are many of us loyal Canon users who think Canon's recent releases have been weak, in light of the competition.  I know many once-loyal Canon shooters who are now dual-brand shooters, waiting for Canon to start taking its customers seriously.  Heck, I have a D800 of my own.

I realize that many people here are quick to defend Canon at all costs, and will jump on anyone who makes ANY type of negative comment toward Canon (even if it's true).  That doesn't make them right.  The fact is, Nikon's sensor tech is owning Canon hands down.  And now, with the $1,195 D7100 offering, they just spanked the sh*t out of Canon's entire APS-C lineup.

Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately... regardless of what the fanbois say.

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: AvTvM on February 21, 2013, 11:18:39 AM
D7100 - http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-d7100/1 (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikon-d7100/1)
Quote
A logical and welcome improvement to the D7100 compared to the D7000 is the addition of the same improved Auto ISO program that we first saw on the D800, and latterly the D5200. This adds the ability to set the minimum shutter speed automatically based on the focal length of the lens in use, with a choice of five settings that bias towards faster or slower speeds. This fixes one of our biggest criticisms of older Nikon DSLRs, and makes Auto ISO more suitable for use with zoom lenses.

YES, strike, Nikon! Auto-ISO as in the D800 ... clearly better than any Canon DSLR realeased to date -  including the 1D-X - since none is "focal-length aware". 

Don't expect a fully useful Auto-ISO implementation in the 70D or even the 7D II ... no matter how much more expensive they'll be compared to the Nikon. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: ashmadux on February 21, 2013, 11:37:14 AM
Canon is having their asses handed to them.

By spec alone, this cam outshines canons entire set of middle ground/enthusiast/semi pro cameras- including the weak spec'ed 6D, and quite easily at that. And the body for only 1200? Thats less than an almost 4 year old 7d. the 60d is 'history'. Canon actually markets the 6d as an entry level landscape camera...for 2k. One cross point. >:( :( :o Even the 650d has 9 cross points. Wither, canon.

At this point, for either manufacturer to EVER create a cam with one/minimal cross points is inexcusable.

The Af modules in recent nikons make Canon look lazy, stupid, foolish, conniving, and whatever other term you can throw at them- its just embarrassing. The m/43 mode just sounds awesome, especially with the extra Af coverage of the frame. Freaking, wow man.

After selling my 7d, i still have no mid level body to shoot with, and cant quite afford a 5d3.

Basically, I  am sooooooo thinking about getting this.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: hoodlum on February 21, 2013, 12:12:05 PM
I love the marketing.... "a blazing fast 6 frames per second"

The real question with Nikon is usually if the highest fps only persists for the first few frames and then changes to crawl-mode (this is the case with the original d7000 and the d600) or if the buffer is deeper this time. So not to defend Nikon, but 6 continuous(?) fps with 24mp(!) in raw(?) mode imho would qualify as fast, it's the data rate vs fps that matters.

Buffer is the same size as the D7000 but due to larger files can only hold 8 RAW images.  In Crop mode it can do 14 RAW images and 7fps.  I hope Canon will look at doing cropped RAW for the 7D2 as you end up with smaller files, more frames in the buffer and improved speed.  No need saving the whole file if you are going to crop afterward. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: TheBadger on February 21, 2013, 12:18:09 PM
I... can't... must... switch... and..pre-order... Gaaah!! Canon! Why u not release something exciting!!!
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Meh on February 21, 2013, 12:22:13 PM
The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception(I understand pros love Canon for a reason, etc, i'm just saying.)

So, you're saying that "public perception" is that Nikon is "dominating" the matchups?  Is your definition of "public" taken to mean, "People who frequent internet forums devoted to Nikon cameras and people who frequent internet forums devoted to Canon cameras for the primary purpose of trolling?" 

Because the "public" who actually buy dSLRs, as opposed to those who just write about them on the internet, seem to buy a lot more Canon dSLRs than Nikon dSLRs, which is why Canon has been and, as of the latest available data, still is "dominating" the market.

I'm just saying...   ::)

Again with your rational, logical, and fact-based analysis... please, that has no place on the Internet.
Was my initial post really that off the mark?
I have all the respect for Neuro in the world. He is obviously one of the most intelligent people on any internet forum.
But, he is also a GIANT Canon fanboy and it never seems as though price is a consideration for him.
He IS rational, but it doesn't mean that my opinions are irrational.
Price IS an issue for me, and based on ALL factors regarding cameras, i haven't been too thrilled with Canon's releases.
Lets face it, the D7100 destroys an incrementally upgraded 60D, and I'm pretty sure I remember the 7DII's rumored price to be around $2K.
I sincerely hope(as other's have said) that Canon comes back swinging and really offers something fantastic, competetion is good for everyone.

I wasn't really addressing your statements, rather I was poking some fun at Neuro but since you asked I will answer since that is the polite thing to do when asked a question  ;D

Without meaning it as an attack on you, actually yes, your statement about "public perception" was irrational because it is not supported by factual evidence only by your perception of what the public perceives which is really only based on what you read on the Internet or from some friends neither of which represent of the general public.

Unfortunately, what people say can not be trusted, particularly on the Internet, and is not as important as what they do.  The only vote that really counts is the one we make with our dollar bills.  There are many reasons to believe that certain characteristics of Nikon bodies are superior to Canon... but certainly not in ALL characteristics and some of that depends on your choice of "matchups"... do you line them up by price and compare features, or do you line up the most comparable bodies and compare price?  Are we only comparing bodies or should we take lenses into consideration?

In your later post you say you were just stating your opinion.  Ah, the classic "it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it" argument.  Yes you are entitled to your opinion.  But your statement wasn't really an opinion...

You wrote "The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception".

Not really an opinion and even if that's what you believe it's still a factual statement, not an opinion, and the ascription to public perception isn't support by facts, for example sales.

If your opinion is that you "like Nikon better than Canon" you are welcome to that view and it's not debatable.  If you state "Nikon is better than Canon" that's not really an opinion although people commonly might restate it as "I believe Nikon is better than Canon" and claim it's an opinion to deflect argument but that's a logical fallacy because regardless of your "belief" the statement is still debatable and, in fact, isn't even defensible because it's too vague and no basis of comparison has been defined.  Your statement "Nikon basically dominates all matchups" falls into that category... it's over-stated, overly broad, and not well defined... and that is what tends to start the flame wars in forums because that is the stuff of fanboism.  That, and people getting defensive about their unsupported claims and being overly sensitive to dissenting views.

Now, to call Neuro a GIANT fanboi is not accurate at all.  I don't recall Neuro ever making over-stated, general claims that Canon is better in any respect where the facts don't support his position.  His preference and choice of Canon gear is well documented but to my knowledge but that does not make him a fanboi.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Bruce Photography on February 21, 2013, 12:28:01 PM
The D7100 sure sounds like a good option for sports/wildlife shooters.  If only Nikon had an optically good 400mm f/5.6 lens (prime or zoom) to go with it.  ::)

+1 on that.  I miss my Canon 400 mm F5.6.  However, I have been hoping for an f4 400mm IS lens from Nikon.  I'll even take one without IS to keep the weight down since I normally use a tripod for birds in flight.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 21, 2013, 12:33:33 PM
Canon actually markets the 6d as an entry level landscape camera...for 2k.

Sure, because for landscape you don't need af at all :-)

One cross point.>:( :( :o Even the 650d has 9 cross points. Wither, canon.

This is when I usually mention that the 6d has no (0, zero) cross points at f2.8 but just a non-cross overlay over a less precise cross sensor. The whole af system seems to be a 99% copy from the 5d2 with two more points added in the gaps, saving Canon development cost and time.

I really hope the pressure from Nikon forces Canon to get a grip again, and the Canon CEO already stated in the recent interview that the 7d2 won't be just the 7d with better specs - so I'm still waiting for the real news.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: TheBadger on February 21, 2013, 12:33:46 PM
The irony of all this is that Nikon, with all their spectacular releases and very compelling cameras, is dropping in revenue and their stock value has dropped to a level not seen in decades while Canon, with their 4 yr old, dull and blurry sensor keeps on hitting!
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 21, 2013, 12:34:16 PM
Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately...

Respond to what?  Sorry, but no, they really don't.  To those who say, "Nikon is handing Canon their asses," or "Canon should be scared," understand that at the most fundamental level, camera sales are what matter.  The finance and marketing divisons within a major corporation, especially a conservative one like Canon, are the voices that determine the ultimate output from the R&D side of the organization, in part because they control the input (i.e. funding) into that R&D. 

As long as Canon continues to sell more cameras and lenses than Nikon, the finance and marketing folks will continue to say that the ship is sailing along fine, it ain't broke and there's nothing to fix.  Is that short-sighted?  Possibly.  But as I've pointed out before, DxOMark has some pretty convincing data showing that from a sensor IQ standpoint, Nikon/Sony have been spanking Canon for several years now.  Has that pushed Canon to 'wake up'?  No - despite their 'crap' sensors, Canon has gone right on gaining market share at Nikon's expense. 

What Canon has done, consistently and successfully, is sell entry level (Rebel/xxxD) cameras to more people than Nikon.  We can debate up the wazoo about which $1200, $3000, or $6500 camera is "better" (whatever the hell that means, if it's even relevant since many of the people debating this aren't buying these cameras anyway).  But both Canon and Nikon sell far more entry level cameras than everything higher up in the lineup combined.  The fact that Canon is winning at the base of the pyramid means that more people are buying into their system, and that translates right on up the lines.  A bigger base means a taller, more massive pyramid.  While I'm sure there are exceptions, very few first-time dSLR buyers buy a $1200, $3000, or $6500 camera.  But they may spend that much on their second dSLR, or their third...and if their first one was a Canon (which by the numbers, it is for a majority of the market), odds are their subsequent (more expensive) dSLRs will also be Canon. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Zlatko on February 21, 2013, 01:06:21 PM
Canon is having their asses handed to them.

By spec alone, this cam outshines canons entire set of middle ground/enthusiast/semi pro cameras- including the weak spec'ed 6D, and quite easily at that. And the body for only 1200? Thats less than an almost 4 year old 7d. the 60d is 'history'. Canon actually markets the 6d as an entry level landscape camera...for 2k. One cross point. >:( :( :o Even the 650d has 9 cross points. Wither, canon.
The D7100 specs look great.  However, despite their specs, Nikon also dominates in consumer dis-satisfaction.  Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.  So far, about 17% of reviewers are giving them just 1 star for these cameras.  By comparison, so far just 2% of reviewers are giving the 5DIII 1 star, and 0% of reviewers are giving the 6D 1 star.  With all of the value Nikon is providing in their specs they should be leading in consumer satisfaction, but clearly they aren't.  In fact, for those specific models, it's not even close.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 21, 2013, 01:47:55 PM
Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.

I often read Amazon reviews, but you have to forget about 5-star ratings ("everything is great! I'm the next employee of the month in viral marketing!") and 1-star ("I couldn't find the power switch" or "I was too dumb to read the specs!").

So I just had a look at German Amazon 6d & d600: The few factual complaints about the 6d were the known weak specs, and about the d600 concerning the oil smeared sensors - but overall both rated very positive, because of course both are excellent cameras if you ignore the "value" and "is it worth it" aspect.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 21, 2013, 02:07:30 PM
With the Nikon 18-300mm lens this could be a great camera for travel. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Zlatko on February 21, 2013, 02:22:48 PM
Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.

I often read Amazon reviews, but you have to forget about 5-star ratings ("everything is great! I'm the next employee of the month in viral marketing!") and 1-star ("I couldn't find the power switch" or "I was too dumb to read the specs!").

So I just had a look at German Amazon 6d & d600: The few factual complaints about the 6d were the known weak specs, and about the d600 concerning the oil smeared sensors - but overall both rated very positive, because of course both are excellent cameras if you ignore the "value" and "is it worth it" aspect.

Sure, some reviews can be dismissed because the reviewer doesn't own the product or has a fundamental misunderstanding. This is the case for both brands and for others.  But the reviews do indicate something.  It is similar to how we check reviews of stores on Resellerratings and sellers on eBay.

Of course, all of these cameras are very good and pleasing to the majority of their buyers.  I fully expect the D7100 to rock for most buyers.  Nevertheless, I was surprised at the dissatisfaction level with two current highly-spec'ed Nikon models.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: RS2021 on February 21, 2013, 02:45:27 PM
I don't want to bash Nikon as I know some great photographers use it...and Nikon makes and have made great cameras. But watching a friend work with his images from his D800E on his computer screen left me glad that I am a Canonite.

I had previously thought the green hue issue was just an LCD thing, but the images opened on his CaptureNX2 before he started work on them also looked odd to me...there is something very wrong with the color palate of this camera...again, this is just a cursory encounter and opinion. No offense to any Nikonians lurking.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: ashmadux on February 21, 2013, 02:58:46 PM
Canon is having their asses handed to them.

By spec alone, this cam outshines canons entire set of middle ground/enthusiast/semi pro cameras- including the weak spec'ed 6D, and quite easily at that. And the body for only 1200? Thats less than an almost 4 year old 7d. the 60d is 'history'. Canon actually markets the 6d as an entry level landscape camera...for 2k. One cross point. >:( :( :o Even the 650d has 9 cross points. Wither, canon.
The D7100 specs look great.  However, despite their specs, Nikon also dominates in consumer dis-satisfaction.  Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.  So far, about 17% of reviewers are giving them just 1 star for these cameras.  By comparison, so far just 2% of reviewers are giving the 5DIII 1 star, and 0% of reviewers are giving the 6D 1 star.  With all of the value Nikon is providing in their specs they should be leading in consumer satisfaction, but clearly they aren't.  In fact, for those specific models, it's not even close.

I dont disagree here. One of the reasons i went with canon in the first place was for the customer service. i will not buy a multithousand dollar product from a company without a good CS system behind them. I will also not buy a dumbed down product that i feel like im being shafted. The 6d is that, imho.

But it will be VERY interesting to see what canon does here- both the 7d2 and the 70d will have to differentiate from each other- how will they do it? the 70d is likely to get the gps/wifi, probably the same 9/11 point all cross Af.  while the 7d2 will get the dual card slots. Also, both of them have to live between the 1200-200 dollar range. Canon is pretty screwed here- maybe.

I wouldn't be surprised if canon set the 7d2 at 2099, and differentiate it with speed over the slow lethargic full frame 6d. It makes sense to me. I kind of sort it out like this:

7d2= more features, speed, dual slots, built well the machine gun
6d= less features, less af, better images, +wifi/gps the slow and steady tool
70d= super powered rebel, decent build, baby 7d  modern with a bit extra potential
t5i= (what else is left to do with this camera? its basically got everything) resetting the 'standard' expectation

thats my take. Im loving this conversation..competition is good,  and it sucks to see Nikon with the canon that i want.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: helpful on February 21, 2013, 03:09:59 PM
Update: this does sound off-topic, but I wrote it to respond to the conflict that was beginning about the "color palates" of Nikon vs. Canon, a conflict that is fundamentally flawed.

The "color palate" of cameras, lenses, and LCDs which I hear about so often is a figment of photographer's imaginations. The only thing a lens has to do with color is separating between color contrasts (low chromatic aberration). The only thing a camera has to do with color is its AWB. The only thing an LCD has to do with color is its calibration (and color spectrum coverage); miscalibration might result in the color being displayed improperly during playback but has zero to do with the actual image, as someone correctly noted by distinguishing between the LCD and the monitor (although the monitor might also be calibrated improperly).

By setting the white balance manually, using both axes that Canon and Nikon make available, not just a one-dimensional Kelvin scale, you can make the colors perfect in the actual image that is recorded digitally. (The reason there are only two axes but three colors is because the third color is determined by exposure, so it is only necessary to control with two variables the proportion between the remaining colors. It is just like the degrees of freedom in statistics, which for a one-sample student's t distribution is one less than the number of data points.)

There is no such mysterious thing as one brand of lens having "warmer colors" or all this other nonsense. Colors are a completely relative thing with digital photography, and even the RGB simulation of color is just a representation of the color spectrum which is actually an interval of the wavelengths of light. RGB colors are unnatural compared to sunlight, and it is just a blessing that our eyes and brains are complex enough to create the illusion of full color from a mixture of RGB.

So since colors are completely relative and white balance completely controls them (except for chromatic aberration), there is simply no such thing as a color palate of a camera or lens, or anything else.

The only thing that might be partly true to say is that the AWB doesn't work the way you see things with your eyes. But that's what you deserve if you are using AWB anyway--it gives someone else's interpretation of color rather than your own. If you want your photography to be determined by the color tastes of an engineer in Japan, then go ahead and use AWB.

And even then you can't blame AWB, because AWB can be fully adjusted so that it delivers your color tastes but still automatically adjusts for different lighting contexts (within the imperfect limitations of technology to detect such things properly, of course).

It's just a shame to see people believing that cameras have "color palates," when it is actually fully under the photographer's control.

Even among professionals, those who are willing to learn to get color right are in the minority. I see so many "great" pictures that are just terrible because those who processed the RAW files don't know anything about white balance, and because the photographer didn't do their job on site to set (or even take any photos of subjects that would have provided the needed data for) the proper white balance.

For example, there was a photo of a bee and sunflower on here. The white balance on that was not quite right. I have done extensive sunflower photography jobs and know quite a bit about it. The bee was OK, but not the background and colors. (I shouldn't judge this though. On the original user's monitor they may have been perfect, but on my precisely calibrated screen they were considerably off.)

P.S. The way to assess "perfect" white balance as I alluded to, is simply to hold a print from your photo next to the original subject. If the colors are not the same, then the white balance is off.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: glongstaff on February 21, 2013, 03:30:35 PM
Well according to Wex Photgraphic website stock is due at the end of March and they're take pre-orders (looks like they've beaten Canon to the market place again: 

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-nikon-d7100-digital-slr-camera-body/p1536185?go=kits_bundles (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-nikon-d7100-digital-slr-camera-body/p1536185?go=kits_bundles)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: coreyhkh on February 21, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
This looks like a awesome wildlife camera much better then 7D and even 1d mk4.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: unfocused on February 21, 2013, 03:37:47 PM
Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately...

Respond to what?  Sorry, but no, they really don't.  To those who say, "Nikon is handing Canon their asses," or "Canon should be scared," understand that at the most fundamental level, camera sales are what matter.  The finance and marketing divisons within a major corporation, especially a conservative one like Canon, are the voices that determine the ultimate output from the R&D side of the organization, in part because they control the input (i.e. funding) into that R&D. 

As long as Canon continues to sell more cameras and lenses than Nikon, the finance and marketing folks will continue to say that the ship is sailing along fine, it ain't broke and there's nothing to fix...

Neuro, you had me up until that "ship is sailing along fine..." stuff.

Not trying to single you out, because I know you know better and I know you aren't guilty of the sin I'm about to attack. But, I can never figure out why otherwise intelligent people think a multinational, multi-billion dollar, profitable company is stupid.

Canon is successful because they produce excellent products and they do so at a price that customers view as good value for the dollar/yen/euro,yuan etc. I can't understand anyone who buys Canon products and then says they are "crap" etc. What kind of consumer are they if they buy stuff they don't like. Everybody makes a few mistakes, but for the most part, I like the stuff I buy. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't.

I also don't understand people who whine about marketing. It's particularly funny when photographers complain about marketing, since photography is pretty much all about marketing. If you take pictures to express beauty -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to convey an idea -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to entertain -- that's marketing. If you take pictures to share memories -- that's marketing. And, of course, if you ever take a single dime for a picture, that's marketing. It's ALL MARKETING. That's what we do.

On a more practical level, what kind of products do you think Canon would be producing if it weren't for their marketing divisions? I can guarantee you that if it were left to the engineers, not one of us would want what they produce. It's that market research that allows them to develop products that people want to buy.

Finally, I don't understand all the Nikon vs. Canon hate stuff – both the self-haters who buy Canon gear and participate in a Canon forum and then constantly complain about Canon. Nor do I understand those who act like Nikon is the worst thing ever and get all upset when Nikon produces a good quality product at a good price.

Personally, I've loving the D7100. I will never buy one, but I know that Nikon's aggressive strategy toward both features and pricing will put pressure on Canon to give us more for less. Why do people think the street price of the 5DIII has dropped since introduction – competition.

Congratulations Nikon, you've introduced a fine camera.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: rh81photo on February 21, 2013, 03:46:23 PM
Update: this does sound off-topic, but I wrote it to respond to the conflict that was beginning about the "color palates" of Nikon vs. Canon, a conflict that is fundamentally flawed.

The "color palate" of cameras, lenses, and LCDs which I hear about so often is a figment of photographer's imaginations. The only thing a lens has to do with color is separating between color contrasts (low chromatic aberration). The only thing a camera has to do with color is its AWB. The only thing an LCD has to do with color is its calibration (and color spectrum coverage); miscalibration might result in the color being displayed improperly during playback but has zero to do with the actual image, as someone correctly noted by distinguishing between the LCD and the monitor (although the monitor might also be calibrated improperly).
.
.
.
Abbreviated
.
.
.

For example, there was a photo of a bee and sunflower on here. The white balance on that was not quite right. I have done extensive sunflower photography jobs and know quite a bit about it. The bee was OK, but not the background and colors. (I shouldn't judge this though. On the original user's monitor they may have been perfect, but on my precisely calibrated screen they were considerably off.)

P.S. The way to assess "perfect" white balance as I alluded to, is simply to hold a print from your photo next to the original subject. If the colors are not the same, then the white balance is off.

sorry but this is way off topic and in many regards not entirely correct. nikon and canon use different color filters in their RGB-colorfilter array. Thus they cover slightly different colorspaces. This is not just AWB settings that somehow are a bit off. It is about measuring all visible colors with just three representations where Nikon and Canon have diffrent views on how this is done. I bet with some work both systems can get close in regards to color, but it would surprise me if they just slightly capture colors just so that you cant match each others outputs. a strong indicator is that the colormatrices for both systems are VERY different from each other.

On topic: Im truly amazed by this D7100, especially for that price! With the D600 I already was close to switching brands. Fiddling with it at Photokina left me with mixed feelings, changeing the settings was astoundingly counterintuitive. The D7100 is taking the Flak at nikonrumors for having a small buffer(6 pics) and being not completeley magnesium alloy body and other to me minor complaints. I'm eager to see what Canon comes up with in their 70D and 7DmkII.
Of course they can choose to not react and keep selling their "conservative" cameras e.g. a 70D with again 9AF-points or the old 18MP sensor. But this nikon offering makes me again rethink what actually keeps me in the Canon system.
Some, but few!, L-lenses is one thing,  handling of the Cameras another and finally: alot of people around me with Canon Glass that can be borrowed if needed. The last two points are very weakly rated by myself.

exciting times for photographic gearheads ;)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: unfocused on February 21, 2013, 03:54:53 PM
Update: this does sound off-topic, but I wrote it to respond to the conflict that was beginning about the "color palates" of Nikon vs. Canon, a conflict that is fundamentally flawed...

...For example, there was a photo of a bee and sunflower on here. The white balance on that was not quite right...On the original user's monitor they may have been perfect, but on my precisely calibrated screen they were considerably off....

While you may be correct, I have to add that you have also illustrated why trying to achieve perfect white balance in anything other than print is pretty much a fool's errand. Most images today will live only on a computer screen. They will never be printed.

The only way to achieve perfect color balance is to go around the world and personally adjust the monitors of every single person in the world. And, while doing that, you would also need to adjust their phones and tablets. (That's not to say that we shouldn't all take more care to try to get the color balance correct, or at least get it to match what we envision).

Seeking perfect color balance on a perfectly calibrated monitor is one strategy and works fine if you don't intend to ever share your images with anyone. I think a better strategy is to follow the model used by web designers and test your images on as many different devices and under as many different conditions as possible to try to achieve the most appealing "average" appearance.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Meh on February 21, 2013, 04:00:05 PM
I can't understand anyone who buys Canon products and then says they are "crap" etc. What kind of consumer are they if they buy stuff they don't like. Everybody makes a few mistakes, but for the most part, I like the stuff I buy. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't.

In general the votes that count the most are the ones we make with our money.  On the other hand, although rarely, people might with full awareness buy something they don't like if they have some other reason to do so... best available, can't afford what they do like, needs to be compatible with another product, etc.

Finally, I don't understand all the Nikon vs. Canon hate stuff – both the self-haters who buy Canon gear and participate in a Canon forum and then constantly complain about Canon. Nor do I understand those who act like Nikon is the worst thing ever and get all upset when Nikon produces a good quality product at a good price.

The answer to this is that it's not really hate just Internet whining, a need to justify one's own choices, they are trolls who just want to stir it up for fun, etc.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: sdsr on February 21, 2013, 04:36:25 PM

The D7100 specs look great.  However, despite their specs, Nikon also dominates in consumer dis-satisfaction.  Check Amazon.com for all of the 1-star [worst] ratings that Nikon is getting from buyers of the D600 and D800.  So far, about 17% of reviewers are giving them just 1 star for these cameras.  By comparison, so far just 2% of reviewers are giving the 5DIII 1 star, and 0% of reviewers are giving the 6D 1 star.  With all of the value Nikon is providing in their specs they should be leading in consumer satisfaction, but clearly they aren't.  In fact, for those specific models, it's not even close.
[/quote]

Besides that, better specs don't matter if they don't improve some feature that matters to whoever buys the camera.  In most ways the Nikon D600 has better specs than the Canon 6D, but when I rented and compared them side-by-side (I was rather looking forward to owning a FF Nikon in conjunction with my 5DII) the results I got from the D600 weren't better than the results I got from the 6D (taking lens differences into account, they probably weren't worse, either) but I found the D600's controls awkward to use, didn't like its viewfinder, and it doesn't focus as well in low light.  For some (most? who knows?) the D600 may well be a better camera, but it wasn't for me, so I bought an "inferior" 6D instead. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: bluntforcetrauma on February 21, 2013, 05:08:00 PM
I have never owned a Nikon but this 7100 really looks like a nice entry level step to take if one wants to try Nikon? I put that as a question to see if what others think?

I am thinking of getting this Nikon 7100 with maybe the 18-300 lens could be a good match.

I  have not really liked shooting with the  canon 5D Mark III,I cant really give a solid objective reason other than shooting inside shots seems to be much work. 

any canon users thinking of getting this camera?

I am also thinking of the EOS 1 DX-- as my high end camera choice for low light, speed and indoor use?

anyone who has a EOS 1 DX--what are your thoughts on the camera?

thanks

this Nikon for the price and specs seems like a nice match.

thanks
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: justsomedude on February 21, 2013, 05:12:01 PM
Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately...

Respond to what?  Sorry, but no, they really don't.  To those who say, "Nikon is handing Canon their asses," or "Canon should be scared," understand that at the most fundamental level, camera sales are what matter.  The finance and marketing divisons within a major corporation, especially a conservative one like Canon, are the voices that determine the ultimate output from the R&D side of the organization, in part because they control the input (i.e. funding) into that R&D. 

Neuroanatomist,

I usually agree with the majority of your posts on here, but with this one I have to vehemently disagree.  I have one word for you... "Microsoft."  They sat on their laurels for years, why?  Because according to you, "the ship [was] sailing along fine."  That's exactly when competition (eg, Apple, Google, Facebook, Firefox, etc.) comes and bites you in the ass.

Yes, Canon may still be a profit machine, but their products aren't what they once were.  The competition has noticed, the professional shooter has noticed, and better, more cost effective solutions, are starting to hit the market and make a legitimate fight for share. 

If Canon doesn't start mounting a serious defense, and that right soon, they may find themselves wandering around lost like Steve Ballmer at an app-developer conference. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: justsomedude on February 21, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
I can't understand anyone who buys Canon products and then says they are "crap" etc. What kind of consumer are they if they buy stuff they don't like. Everybody makes a few mistakes, but for the most part, I like the stuff I buy. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't.

Unfocused,

You make a valid point, but one that requires a little more nuance to explain in detail.  You have to remember, the majority of pro shooters don't just have a 60D or a single 7D body.  They have numerous bodies and an extensive collection of lenses and accessories.  Switching systems is a massive undertaking, both from a time and energy standpoint, and a financial resources one as well.  Fully switching brands must be a well thought out decision, and sometimes it simply isn't worth it - even when new product releases are inferior to the competition's. 

But with that said, and as an owner of both the 5D3 and the D800, I can honestly say that I will not be making any additional Canon body purchases without some significant improvement in sensor performance or a very real indication from Canon that they care about the pro shooter AND innovations in digital photography.  Simply cranking out new bodies every three years with a few tweaks just doesn't cut it anymore; Nikon has made this point as clear as crystal.

Looking at the bigger picture, the market is what it is.  If Canon wants to rely on mid-level dSLR sales to hobbyist and part-time shooters to fill it's coffers, and build their reputation on that, that's just fine - I just probably won't be hanging around at that point.  To think of it from the personal computer perspective... If Canon wants to turn themselves into the Dell of dSLR manufacturers, that's certainly their prerogative, I'd just rather be shooting with an Apple.

Agree to disagree.

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 21, 2013, 05:32:02 PM
Neuro, you had me up until that "ship is sailing along fine..." stuff.

Not trying to single you out, because I know you know better and I know you aren't guilty of the sin I'm about to attack. But, I can never figure out why otherwise intelligent people think a multinational, multi-billion dollar, profitable company is stupid.

Far from it.  My point is that Canon's current strategy is working.  They are doing their R&D, developing new cameras with improved features, releasing them into the market, and those cameras are selling like gangbusters.  I don't understand why otherwise intelligent people are clamoring for Canon to do something different, and be more like their competitor that isn't doing as well as they are in the market.

My point was not "the ship is sailing along fine," so Canon should be complacent.  They clearly have a strategy (ship), and are executing on that strategy (sailing), and are successful at it (sailing fine).

Also, do note that I did suggest that behavior might be short sighted.  I'm well aware of the parallels to Microsoft, another conservative company.   Just because it happened once, doesn't mean it will happen again; by the same token, just because it happened to another company doesn't mean Canon will learn from that lesson.  Usually, changes like this don't happen overnight.  Obviously, Microsoft did not respond to those changes appropriately for their business.  It remains to be seen how Canon will respond to a declining marketshare, but of course, first that marketshare has to actually decline. 

We heard all of these arguments about the D800, and the 5D Mark III is apparently outselling it by a wide margin.  Now the D7100 is the best thing since sliced bread, and while is does seem like a well-spec'd camera, I suggest we wait and see how well it sells, compared to a camera Canon may or may not release, before we declare victory for Nikon and claim Canon 'had their ass handed to them'. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: unfocused on February 21, 2013, 05:48:05 PM
Agree to disagree.

I'm not sure we disagree. I have no problem with anyone buying any particular brand of any product. And, I certainly understand the need for someone who is earning a living in any profession to buy the tools that may give them an edge.

In fact, I think it is probably those of us who don't do this for a living that are more trapped than those who do earn a living at it, as we don't have any means of recovering our investment.

My point was never that no one should ever change brands or select a product that better fits their needs. My complaint is about those who cannot see past their own narrow obsessions and react hysterically on the internet to each new product introduction by competitors as though it's somehow going to drive Canon into bankruptcy.

As I said, I am thrilled by Nikon's efforts to aggressively compete on both price and features. As consumers, whether professional or amateur, we can only benefit.

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: unfocused on February 21, 2013, 06:04:16 PM
Neuro, you had me up until that "ship is sailing along fine..." stuff.

Not trying to single you out, because I know you know better and I know you aren't guilty of the sin I'm about to attack. But, I can never figure out why otherwise intelligent people think a multinational, multi-billion dollar, profitable company is stupid.

Far from it.  My point is that Canon's current strategy is working.  They are doing their R&D, developing new cameras with improved features, releasing them into the market, and those cameras are selling like gangbusters.  I don't understand why otherwise intelligent people are clamoring for Canon to do something different, and be more like their competitor that isn't doing as well as they are in the market...

...We heard all of these arguments about the D800, and the 5D Mark III is apparently outselling it by a wide margin.  Now the D7100 is the best thing since sliced bread, and while is does seem like a well-spec'd camera, I suggest we wait and see how well it sells, compared to a camera Canon may or may not release, before we declare victory for Nikon and claim Canon 'had their ass handed to them'.

Oh dear. We are going to have to agree to agree.

Seriously, I absolutely do agree with the points you have made. I thought I detected that you were starting to buy into the argument that Canon has fallen behind and I was trying to nip that in the bud.

I'm not a blindly loyal fan of Canon, but I have great respect for their ability to manage the company and return profits in a challenging environment. I also note that in the polls that count (buyers) Canon does extremely well and it seems that over the long run, their recent introductions (5DIII and 6D) are actually becoming more popular while their competitors' products are slipping.

At one point I worked for a major telecommunications carrier and the CEO used to say something to the effect that he would take an average plan that is well-executed over an excellent plan this is poorly executed any day of the week. Regardless of what anyone thinks about Canon, the fact is, they consistently know how to get the ball across the goal and do it more frequently and more consistently than their competitors.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: dlleno on February 21, 2013, 06:05:05 PM
....Switching systems is a massive undertaking, both from a time and energy standpoint, and a financial resources one as well.  Fully switching brands must be a well thought out decision, and sometimes it simply isn't worth it - even when new product releases are inferior to the competition's.   

sure -- and the sales figures (that show the clear Canon advantage) may be in fact due to the high installed based.  the implication is that no one (with a lick of sense)  really compares body-to-body they compare system-to-system.  So Canon sells more bodies becasue their strategy is working. 
Quote

...I can honestly say that I will not be making any additional Canon body purchases without some significant improvement in sensor performance

This is a hot topic, to be sure.  Canon's strategy of building the installed base and locking people in with a great lineup of lenses is aparently working.  Thing is, we are not yet at the point where the Nikon shooters are producing better photos, in spite of their theoretical advantages and tables full of numbers that look better.  My observation is just that Canon may be content to yield the industry leadership position to Sony in sensor design as long as they can avoid that point where Nikons are producing better photos.  If/when that point in time will come is up for amusing debate, to be sure. 

Until Nikon bodies and lenses produce better, more marketable, more compelling photos that clients favor over the Canon photos, and until the Canon wielding pros start to experience the economics of that, I don't think we have any real case that Canon is shirking their duties.  And I do think it is about the economics of marketing photos, not about the gearheads that compare numbers. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Meh on February 21, 2013, 06:08:09 PM
Neuroanatomist,

I usually agree with the majority of your posts on here, but with this one I have to vehemently disagree.

Vehemently disagree?  That's pretty serious man!


Definition of VEHEMENT

: marked by forceful energy : powerful <a vehement wind>: as

a : intensely emotional : impassioned, fervid <vehement patriotism>

b (1) : deeply felt <a vehement suspicion> (2) : forcibly expressed <vehement denunciations>

c : bitterly antagonistic <a vehement debate>
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: RLPhoto on February 21, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
I  have not really liked shooting with the  canon 5D Mark III,I cant really give a solid objective reason other than shooting inside shots seems to be much work. 

The MK3 is the Best Handling, Best shooting, Best performing camera I've ever used, Which includes some usage of the venerable D700 to compare. Can you explain how so?
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Zlatko on February 21, 2013, 06:46:07 PM
Simply cranking out new bodies every three years with a few tweaks just doesn't cut it anymore; Nikon has made this point as clear as crystal.
The 5D3 and 1DX have more than "a few tweaks" and certainly don't feel "cranked out".  Each has numerous refinements, many of which are directly responsive to professionals' requests.  Canon sensors already do a great job for many photographers.  While more dynamic range will be welcome, there is more to a sensor than dynamic range.  And there is more to a camera system than a sensor.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: dlleno on February 21, 2013, 07:19:41 PM
....Switching systems is a massive undertaking, both from a time and energy standpoint, and a financial resources one as well.  Fully switching brands must be a well thought out decision, and sometimes it simply isn't worth it - even when new product releases are inferior to the competition's.   

sure -- and the sales figures (that show the clear Canon advantage) may be in fact due to the high installed based.  the implication is that no one (with a lick of sense)  really compares body-to-body they compare system-to-system.  So Canon sells more bodies becasue their strategy is working.

I don't know that their current strategy is working but at a key point (lets say when the 20D/5D/5DII were introduced), they were able to capture a lot of photographers that were coming into digital photography or that were upgrading from point-and-shoot. Being on top of the market early let them establish a good installed base that will stick with the same vendor as time goes by because people can just buy a new body.

agreed.  Only recently have we seen Sony overtake the Canon sensor technology -- but the point is that this advantage has  not (yet) resulted in better or more  marketable  photos.

on EDIT:  I would even add:  Not even "easier to get better or more marketable photos with Nikon"!

In fact, because of Canon's market share and installed base they could quite easily remain one step behind the industry state-of-the-art in sensor technology and STILL maintain their position -- until and unless that gap truly and actually results in better photos, not just better specs,  coming from the competition. 

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 21, 2013, 08:00:53 PM


Looking at the bigger picture, the market is what it is.  If Canon wants to rely on mid-level dSLR sales to hobbyist and part-time shooters to fill it's coffers, and build their reputation on that, that's just fine - I just probably won't be hanging around at that point.  To think of it from the personal computer perspective... If Canon wants to turn themselves into the Dell of dSLR manufacturers, that's certainly their prerogative, I'd just rather be shooting with an Apple.

Agree to disagree.

So with the Apple analogy, do you refer to before they switched to Intel or after? Apple PCs with a market share of around 6% against the 'low cost' Lenovo, Acer and Dell and for that matter also Samsung that own the market, is that it? Apple uses the same hardware as the rest, assembled in factories in China and sold in fixed configurations with inferior service offerings and worst of all a proprietary approach to basically all their software offerings, an operating system that has lost all edge it ever had. Sorry man, I'm happy using the more flexible 'low cost' PCs.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Aglet on February 22, 2013, 01:36:24 AM
In fact, because of Canon's market share and installed base they could quite easily remain one step behind the industry state-of-the-art in sensor technology and STILL maintain their position -- until and unless that gap truly and actually results in better photos, not just better specs,  coming from the competition.

That's true, they're darn near a Juggernaut.
And all the gear these days is so good that no one bit of kit is going to stand out to such an extent that it makes the competition irrelevant.
It's only a few of us (vocal minority types) who prefer some of the technical advantages offered by the competition enough to add them to our inventory.  Some of Nikon's and Pentax's gear makes my life a little easier vs using Canon.  Altho it's unlikely we hold much sway with the likes of Canon; they're still making a (lot) of money doing things the way they've always done.
The competition had to improve substantially just to get noticed, IMO. I think they've accomplished this.  Maybe they even improved their market share slightly.
But that consumer base is an important segment and I still don't see how that fight's going to change any.
I've heard more than one consumer type photog tell me that they've heard recent Nikon cameras are technically better but it didn't matter enough to them to buy one, their first SLR was a Rebel.  And they liked it.  And if any of them upgrade, they're likely to stay with what they know.
I think it takes more than just cash to switch to or add another system.  It takes a degree of courage and determination.  There's more learning to do, more things to remember.  That sounds like work and we can predict what most people think of that.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: aj1575 on February 22, 2013, 02:28:58 AM
Looks nice. Now it is time for Canon to announce their 70D. I hope it will have similar specs to the D7100.

-Sensor in the 22MP range (a completly new sensor family please, not a warmed up 18 from the vintage 7D)
-100% viewfinder
-AF System with either more points than the 60D, or at least the -3EV one from the 6D in the middle
-GPS and WiFi (with priority to WiFi)
-Not bigger and not heavier than the current 60D
-I don't care about the dual card slot

I'm looking forward to the announcement
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 22, 2013, 02:43:25 AM
I'm well aware of the parallels to Microsoft, another conservative company.   Just because it happened once, doesn't mean it will happen again; by the same token, just because it happened to another company doesn't mean Canon will learn from that lesson.  Usually, changes like this don't happen overnight.  Obviously, Microsoft did not respond to those changes appropriately for their business.  It remains to be seen how Canon will respond to a declining marketshare, but of course, first that marketshare has to actually decline.

That's an interesting comparison because I do know one thing or two about Microsoft because I worked as a programmer for a MS Gold Certified partner some time, gaining insight how that company works - and it's not like Canon.

Microsoft has missed main developments again and again like the Internet or the mobile market - *but* they were always able to turn around 180 degrees and renew themselves like with Internet Explorer and now semi-abandoning WPF/.NET/Silverlight and multiple other technologies that they promoted for years a the future way. That always left a lot of victims in the M$ crowd who weren't able to turn around as fast as their tech base did, but it saved Microsoft until now.

Canon seems to be conservative because they lack imagination, while Microsoft is conservative because they use their "embrace, extend and extinguish" strategy (at least up to now) which needs a lot of time to work, i.e. pinning people to M$ tech.

I'm keen to see if Canon will be able to turn around from their strong product differentiation (high price or low features/quality) strategy in case they face a problem down the road, but on the other hand maybe they just did with the eos-m and we didn't notice until mirrorless reaches the old school dlsr segment with the cash cow customer base (that's us).
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 22, 2013, 03:22:18 AM
I'm well aware of the parallels to Microsoft, another conservative company.   Just because it happened once, doesn't mean it will happen again; by the same token, just because it happened to another company doesn't mean Canon will learn from that lesson.  Usually, changes like this don't happen overnight.  Obviously, Microsoft did not respond to those changes appropriately for their business.  It remains to be seen how Canon will respond to a declining marketshare, but of course, first that marketshare has to actually decline.

That's an interesting comparison because I do know one thing or two about Microsoft because I worked as a programmer for a MS Gold Certified partner some time, gaining insight how that company works - and it's not like Canon.

Microsoft has missed main developments again and again like the Internet or the mobile market - *but* they were always able to turn around 180 degrees and renew themselves like with Internet Explorer and now semi-abandoning WPF/.NET/Silverlight and multiple other technologies that they promoted for years a the future way. That always left a lot of victims in the M$ crowd who weren't able to turn around as fast as their tech base did, but it saved Microsoft until now.

Canon seems to be conservative because they lack imagination, while Microsoft is conservative because they use their "embrace, extend and extinguish" strategy (at least up to now) which needs a lot of time to work, i.e. pinning people to M$ tech.

I'm keen to see if Canon will be able to turn around from their strong product differentiation (high price or low features/quality) strategy in case they face a problem down the road, but on the other hand maybe they just did with the eos-m and we didn't notice until mirrorless reaches the old school dlsr segment with the cash cow customer base (that's us).
Hmm, that's interesting what you say about .NET, I have spent some time on the other side (Java) and I used to think that .NET applications were prolific giving us much trouble.

I do agree that MS have failed on mobile, but seeing their work with Nokia and tablets it's very interesting and finally they have their first good OS in years after XP. Maybe not as innovative as they once were, but still very solid and good quality products, that sounds like Canon to me. I guess there are some parallels but also differences between these two companies also depending on inherent differences in the two markets.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: ichbins on February 22, 2013, 05:00:50 AM
The sad thing is that Nikon is basically dominating all matchups(definitely on the lower end), at least in terms of specs, public perception(I understand pros love Canon for a reason, etc, i'm just saying.)

So, you're saying that "public perception" is that Nikon is "dominating" the matchups?  Is your definition of "public" taken to mean, "People who frequent internet forums devoted to Nikon cameras and people who frequent internet forums devoted to Canon cameras for the primary purpose of trolling?" 

Because the "public" who actually buy dSLRs, as opposed to those who just write about them on the internet, seem to buy a lot more Canon dSLRs than Nikon dSLRs, which is why Canon has been and, as of the latest available data, still is "dominating" the market.

I'm just saying...   ::)

Yes. And the same - a few years ago - you say that surley about Nokia and the cellphon market.
Canon ist sleeping. An if they wake up it's perhaps to late.

I'm just saying ....
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Sith Zombie on February 22, 2013, 05:11:23 AM
I actually think Nikon made a mistake with this one, don't get me wrong the specs are really great and the price.... WOW! The camera is awesome but crop shooters at camp nikon are waiting for the d300s replacement. The d300s is similar to the 7D in specs [lower mp but more af points, 7fps, metal body]

Now imagine the 7Dmkii specs were the same as the nikon d7100? how pissed would you all be? losing fps, build quality. It's kinda like all the d700 owners when the d800 came out, way too many mps and a big fps drop.
From our point of view, these cameras are great but to some nikon users expecting incremental upgrades, they are a step backwards in some ways [build and fps]
They seemed to more geared towards getting new customers than the existing users, which is probably their strategy. [and it could be working on me, may end up with a d800]

I think the 7Dmkii has a chance to shine: full metal build, 5dmkiii af, 10 fps, 20-24 mp.
Only problem will be the price. Ouch!
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 22, 2013, 05:13:26 AM
Canon ist sleeping. An if they wake up it's perhaps to late.

No, it'll never be too late and Canon knows it - in contrast to for example Microsoft they can change in no time by lowering the price of some models (as they did with the 5d3) and quickly release new cameras (see the fast the 6d was here) and lenses (according to the patents, they must have tons of prototypes) and flashes (440ex anyone?). That's why their making as much money as long as anyone's willing to pay their prices - good for Canon, bad for us.

Hmm, that's interesting what you say about .NET, I have spent some time on the other side (Java) and I used to think that .NET applications were prolific giving us much trouble.

.NET is a very good tech, the problem is simply that just like Java it's a bytecode language that is tuned for desktop or server environments and not for powersaving mobile devices - and Microsoft just pulled the plug for the .NET Desktop-only front-end WPF & the .NET-derivative Silverlight without shedding a tear for all the devs who put their career into it.

Same with Canon: To turn around they would have to break some eggs, i.e. undercutting current cameras with a new model that is cheaper *and* is overall "better" - and looking at the 6d specs they don't want to do that, not until the competition from Nikon actually affects their profits. In this spirit: go, Nikon, go :-)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Hobby Shooter on February 22, 2013, 05:20:16 AM
Canon ist sleeping. An if they wake up it's perhaps to late.

No, it'll never be too late and Canon knows it - in contrast to for example Microsoft they can change in no time by lowering the price of some models (as they did with the 5d3) and quickly release new cameras (see the fast the 6d was here) and lenses (according to the patents, they must have tons of prototypes) and flashes (440ex anyone?). That's why their making as much money as long as anyone's willing to pay their prices - good for Canon, bad for us.

Hmm, that's interesting what you say about .NET, I have spent some time on the other side (Java) and I used to think that .NET applications were prolific giving us much trouble.

.NET is a very good tech, the problem is simply that just like Java it's a bytecode language that is tuned for desktop or server environments and not for powersaving mobile devices - and Microsoft just pulled the plug for the .NET Desktop-only front-end WPF & the .NET-derivative Silverlight without shedding a tear for all the devs who put their career into it.

Same with Canon: To turn around they would have to break some eggs, i.e. undercutting current cameras with a new model that is cheaper *and* is overall "better" - and looking at the 6d specs they don't want to do that, not until the competition from Nikon actually affects their profits. In this spirit: go, Nikon, go :-)
Interesting about Silverlight, I didn't know that, I have been away from that world a couple of years working with large Unix hardware only for a while.

When it comes to breaking eggs, not sure I agree there, I don't want to see this business come into being a low margin business because that always limits innovation. The management at Nikon is obviously desperate throwing specs at people, including the latest and greatest for a very low price. I gather you remember AST, Digital, Compaq and lots of others that tried the same. Low price is not always good for the end customer. Of course the PC business has gone through a fantastic development the last fifteen years, even the last three years has been very interesting.

I don't mind spending some extra money
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Marsu42 on February 22, 2013, 05:49:15 AM
I don't mind spending some extra money

Well, I do, but I admit you're the ideal Canon customer :-p ... and you might be in a large company in the "cash cow" high-end enthusiast's (7d2, 6d) or even (semi-)pro (5d3, ...) market.

The only question is if Canon is feeling the pressure from the competitors in the low-end enthusiasts' segment (60d, d7100, k5ii, ...) where Canon is blown away by the competitor's tech, sensor and build specs when comparing prices. That's why I'm interested in the 70d release, even though I'm happy with my 60d and the only way forward for me will be a ff 6d.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 22, 2013, 06:10:40 AM
Hopefully Canon is very scared - and taking Nikon's recent R&D push seriously.  They need to respond immediately...

Respond to what?  Sorry, but no, they really don't.  To those who say, "Nikon is handing Canon their asses," or "Canon should be scared," understand that at the most fundamental level, camera sales are what matter.  The finance and marketing divisons within a major corporation, especially a conservative one like Canon, are the voices that determine the ultimate output from the R&D side of the organization, in part because they control the input (i.e. funding) into that R&D. 

As long as Canon continues to sell more cameras and lenses than Nikon, the finance and marketing folks will continue to say that the ship is sailing along fine, it ain't broke and there's nothing to fix.  Is that short-sighted?  Possibly.  But as I've pointed out before, DxOMark has some pretty convincing data showing that from a sensor IQ standpoint, Nikon/Sony have been spanking Canon for several years now.  Has that pushed Canon to 'wake up'?  No - despite their 'crap' sensors, Canon has gone right on gaining market share at Nikon's expense. 

What Canon has done, consistently and successfully, is sell entry level (Rebel/xxxD) cameras to more people than Nikon.  We can debate up the wazoo about which $1200, $3000, or $6500 camera is "better" (whatever the hell that means, if it's even relevant since many of the people debating this aren't buying these cameras anyway).  But both Canon and Nikon sell far more entry level cameras than everything higher up in the lineup combined.  The fact that Canon is winning at the base of the pyramid means that more people are buying into their system, and that translates right on up the lines.  A bigger base means a taller, more massive pyramid.  While I'm sure there are exceptions, very few first-time dSLR buyers buy a $1200, $3000, or $6500 camera.  But they may spend that much on their second dSLR, or their third...and if their first one was a Canon (which by the numbers, it is for a majority of the market), odds are their subsequent (more expensive) dSLRs will also be Canon.
+1
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 22, 2013, 06:12:54 AM
This looks like a awesome wildlife camera much better then 7D and even 1d mk4.
???
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: AvTvM on February 22, 2013, 07:04:14 AM
the major difference between M$ and Canon is this:
Canon's executive floor is a geriatric ward. They have NO imagination whatsoever.
If M$ would be run by an executive board aged 70+ on average, they would fail in a similar way.

To me Canon looks increasingly like Kodak or thinking of copiers ... Xerox. 
Once highly innovative and "bleeding edge" ... but LONG ago. And then fallen victim to ultra-conservative financial controllers.

Instead of going ALL OUT and absolutely conquer the mirrorless market within months by releasing a HIGH-END, FF EOS-M with IQ, perfromance and features to kill any DLSR on the market - except possibly a 1D-X,  they came up tiwh a totally lacklustre, boring and sluggish piece of cr*p, just thining about how to "not cannibalize" their ultra-boring and unimaginative DSLR-lineup. And Canon got the right response from the market: total flop.

Canon only got away with their dissappointing product-lineup because Nikon is tun exactly the same way by their respective geriatric japanese management! 

But Canon and Nikon they will be punished sooner rather than later! By us, by the market! Like Kodak received their *just punishment* in the end. And Xerox, and many many other companies, that did not strive to give their customers the very best products they could possibly design and make, but tried to short-change them. 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: aj1575 on February 22, 2013, 07:41:08 AM
I'm really looking forward to the 70D now. I'm waiting for long enough now to replace my 350D (yes, it is still running). The D7100 set the bar pretty high; especially with that starting price. There is not much to complain about in this camera, just a few points.
-I miss integrated WiFi
-I can live with one SD-slot
-I can live with fewer AF-Points, IF they are more sensitive.

This is what I like to see from the 70D
-WiFi integrated
-AF point(s) with high sensitivity (like the -3EV on the 6D)
-Completly new sensor with DXOmark measurments close to the Sony sensors (I do not say DXORating, I just like to compare the measurments)
-And a price that is close to the one of the Nikon.

I fear the price will be higher; Nikons offer is amazing, and Canon more expensive anyway (hopefully the 6D D600 is an example, since they cost about the same)
The AF-System will be interesting to see, it could be an 11 point system, this is no dealbreaker for me. But I'm most interested in the sensor Canon will put into this camera. It needs to be something new; the 18MP they use now is just to old. I wonder how close they will get to the Sony/Nikon benchmark. Here a big improvement is needed, and this is a dealbreaker for me. If they can't catch up, then I will have to spend some more money then I would actually like to, and go FF with a 6D. This is still cheaper for me than switching to an APS-C Nikon.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: justsomedude on February 22, 2013, 11:05:38 AM
Neuroanatomist,

I usually agree with the majority of your posts on here, but with this one I have to vehemently disagree.

Vehemently disagree?  That's pretty serious man!


Definition of VEHEMENT

: marked by forceful energy : powerful <a vehement wind>: as

a : intensely emotional : impassioned, fervid <vehement patriotism>

b (1) : deeply felt <a vehement suspicion> (2) : forcibly expressed <vehement denunciations>

c : bitterly antagonistic <a vehement debate>


Hahahaha!  And this is why I love Canon Rumors forums! 

Gotta have some fun now and then.  :)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: justsomedude on February 22, 2013, 11:06:39 AM
....Switching systems is a massive undertaking, both from a time and energy standpoint, and a financial resources one as well.  Fully switching brands must be a well thought out decision, and sometimes it simply isn't worth it - even when new product releases are inferior to the competition's.   

sure -- and the sales figures (that show the clear Canon advantage) may be in fact due to the high installed based.  the implication is that no one (with a lick of sense)  really compares body-to-body they compare system-to-system.  So Canon sells more bodies becasue their strategy is working.

I don't know that their current strategy is working but at a key point (lets say when the 20D/5D/5DII were introduced), they were able to capture a lot of photographers that were coming into digital photography or that were upgrading from point-and-shoot. Being on top of the market early let them establish a good installed base that will stick with the same vendor as time goes by because people can just buy a new body.

I think dilbert nailed it on the head.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Plainsman on February 22, 2013, 02:55:05 PM
24Mp sensor with no AA filter!!
Should yield very sharp 100pc crops superior to anything seen yet in APS-C format.
Can't see Canon providing anything equivalent in the upcoming 7D2, 70D series which will - in all probability - have the usual strong filters.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: K-amps on February 22, 2013, 04:29:35 PM
I would be very excited... hell I'd be jumping up and down if Canon had released a 70d with these specs.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: verysimplejason on February 22, 2013, 11:05:40 PM
I would be very excited... hell I'd be jumping up and down if Canon had released a 70d with these specs.

and price...
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 23, 2013, 03:39:01 AM
I would be very excited... hell I'd be jumping up and down if Canon had released a 70d with these specs.

and price...
+1 ... anyone who is looking for a good mid range DSLR with a one lens solution, Nikon has a winner in D7100 & 18-300 VR combo ... it is a near perfect setup for vacations, hiking  or whenever you don't want to change lenses on the field ... right now the 18-300 is selling for US$ 697 and with the D7100 at US$1197, Nikon really has a real winner ... I would like to see something similar from Canon
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Sith Zombie on February 23, 2013, 05:50:05 AM


The D700 split into two different cameras: the D800 and D600.

Yeah i guess, but I'm betting most d700 shooters would have preferred a d700s: 7fps, 24mp, solid build.
What they got was either: pretty much the same camera [d600] with lesser build quality but good amount of mp.
Or a complete beast [d800] whilst great for certain users, it's a step backward in fps and too large file size for others.

For sports, event, wedding or wildlife photographers already using a d700, I wouldn't consider either of these a great upgrade. Maybe the d600 for a 'slightly' faster shooting speed and more mp but then you lose the tank like build that the d700 was known for.

And yes, i agree the d7100 isn't a replacement for the d300s but its hard not to see that whilst nikons recent release's are great cameras, they don't seem to offer much to the existing semipro d700 d300s crowd. They seem more aimed at increasing the user base.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Sith Zombie on February 24, 2013, 06:33:32 AM
The D700 split into two different cameras: the D800 and D600.

Yeah i guess, but I'm betting most d700 shooters would have preferred a d700s: 7fps, 24mp, solid build.
What they got was either: pretty much the same camera [d600] with lesser build quality but good amount of mp.
Or a complete beast [d800] whilst great for certain users, it's a step backward in fps and too large file size for others.

For sports, event, wedding or wildlife photographers already using a d700, I wouldn't consider either of these a great upgrade. Maybe the d600 for a 'slightly' faster shooting speed and more mp but then you lose the tank like build that the d700 was known for.

I think all three of those cameras are likely able to withstand rougher treatment than most people will deliver. Then again, I've seen some treat the D700 like it was made of porcelain with it wrapped up in a plastic bag whilst they were outside shooting. Go figure. Search on youtube for the comparison between Nikon and Canon where someone tries to burn them with a blowtorch.

I'll take a look. I'v seen the digital rev one one of the 7d were he freezes it in water then breaks it out with an air rifle and the thing keeps shooting!
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Rienzphotoz on February 24, 2013, 11:16:24 PM
The D300s may not be on sale or in stock anywhere,
D300s is still available at most of the big online stores ... but what I don't unerstand is its price, it is way too expensive ... almost $1700 is crazy, while the 7D sells for just over $1100
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/635645-REG/Nikon_25464_D300s_SLR_Digital_Camera.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/635645-REG/Nikon_25464_D300s_SLR_Digital_Camera.html)
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-12-3MP-DX-Format-Digital-3-0-Inch/dp/B002JCSV6M (http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-12-3MP-DX-Format-Digital-3-0-Inch/dp/B002JCSV6M)
http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-eos-7d-digital-camera/NzQzMg_A_A (http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-eos-7d-digital-camera/NzQzMg_A_A)
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: Plainsman on February 25, 2013, 04:51:07 AM
This 7100 may well be the sharpest APS-C camera around for a long time - in theory!

But no AFMA facility on it?

So in practice you may have to be very lucky to realise its full potential on your favourite lens.
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 25, 2013, 09:48:55 AM
This 7100 may well be the sharpest APS-C camera around for a long time - in theory!

But no AFMA facility on it?

So in practice you may have to be very lucky to realise its full potential on your favourite lens.

Well, technically it doesn't have AFMA, because that's Canon's name for the feature.  But, what makes you think it doesn't have AF Fine Tune?  Might want to go read the specs (http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d7100/spec.htm) again...
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: AvTvM on February 25, 2013, 11:39:04 AM
This 7100 may well be the sharpest APS-C camera around for a long time - in theory!
But no AFMA facility on it?
So in practice you may have to be very lucky to realise its full potential on your favourite lens.

Well, technically it doesn't have AFMA, because that's Canon's name for the feature.  But, what makes you think it doesn't have AF Fine Tune?  Might want to go read the specs (http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d7100/spec.htm) again...

Yes, the D7100 does fave AF "fine tuning".
After all it is the same 3500DX AF-module as introduced almost 6 years ago in the Nikon D300. 

But Neuro ... especially as a Canon-user it is really tough to spot the feature in the somewhat unwieldy spec list!   :P

Tab Heading: Autofocus
Quote
Nikon Advanced Multi-CAM 3500DX autofocus sensor module with TTL phase detection, fine-tuning, 51 focus points (including 15 cross-type sensors; the center point is available at apertures slower than f/5.6 and faster than f/8 or at f/8), and AF-assist illuminator (range approx. 0.5 to 3 m/1 ft 8 in. to 9 ft 10 in.)

Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: neuroanatomist on February 25, 2013, 11:50:22 AM
But Neuro ... especially as a Canon-user it is really tough to spot the feature in the somewhat unwieldy spec list!   :P
Tough to spot on a Nikon spec list, mabe...but that's better than impossible to spot on a Canon spec list, since it's not there at all (e.g. the 7D has AFMA, but it's not referenced in the specs (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d#Specifications)). 
Title: Re: Nikon 7100 has been anounced
Post by: AvTvM on February 25, 2013, 01:15:42 PM
But Neuro ... especially as a Canon-user it is really tough to spot the feature in the somewhat unwieldy spec list!   :P
Tough to spot on a Nikon spec list, mabe...but that's better than impossible to spot on a Canon spec list, since it's not there at all (e.g. the 7D has AFMA, but it's not referenced in the specs (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d#Specifications)).

Totally agree on that one. AS I already mentioned when I quoted the D7100 viewfinder details ... it is not  possible to find  the same, still rather basic product information for a Canon EOS camera on a Canon website.