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Gear Talk => Reviews => Topic started by: Mark Carey on March 25, 2013, 05:24:40 AM

Title: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 25, 2013, 05:24:40 AM
This post is a supplement to my earlier blog post on the Psychology and technique in street photography.  I am an experienced street photographer shooting predominantly in India and South East Asia. I have for the last year or so moved over to a 5dmk3 as my main camera and the more I use it the more I like it.

If you are interested to see what I think of this camera, good and bad, and what other gear I use please take a look.

Thanks.
Mark.

http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/my-street-photography-kit/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/my-street-photography-kit/)
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: tomscott on March 25, 2013, 07:05:40 AM
I would agree the 5DMKIII is a great camera, but for street I would disagree. Its too big and intrusive regardless how much gafa tape you use to reduce the bling. If it works for you then great but think you would be even less noticeable with a smaller camera.

Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 25, 2013, 09:01:08 AM
I would agree the 5DMKIII is a great camera, but for street I would disagree. Its too big and intrusive regardless how much gafa tape you use to reduce the bling. If it works for you then great but think you would be even less noticeable with a smaller camera.

Its not big and intrusive when you have a small lens on it like a 35 f2. Ok, its marginally bigger than a cropped body dslr but there isnt a huge amount of difference. Its marginally bigger than a Fuji xpro1.

Ive done street photography with a variety of cameras from Xpro1, D3s, D700, point and shoot type cameras - so sizes completely across the board. My view is as long as you have a small lens on it and you kinda tuck it under your arm a lot, a 5d's size is not much of a bother to people.

The plus points I have mentioned more than outweigh the fact that in an ideal world Id like it a bit smaller, but I dont really find it a big deal. Take an Xpro1 - God forbid I need to take several shots, quickly check them and take some more. Its just not responsive enough. You are totally 'in touch' with the 5d3 in a way that lifts it apart from many other smaller bodies. Of course with these other smaller bodies you will also be compromising on image quality as well.

Just my opinion - I respect that you may think differently.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: RS2021 on March 25, 2013, 10:06:38 AM
I will have to agree with tomscott though I think the effort is nice.

I have used the 5D3 for street but I will not say it is in anyway a low key camera, nor will I say it can be "masked" by tape or other means...it sticks out. If one chooses to use it, one has to accept it for what it is.

For sometime now, I have been considering RX-1.... off and on...(thankfully off-cycle now)

Even RX-1 seems grotesque with its lens diameter almost flush with its body height! Leica does the best footprint job but it is not AF and I think it matters on the street...to me anyways.

When it is all said and done, perhaps iPhones or soemthing similar may be ideal for street photography, all things considered.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Rienzphotoz on March 25, 2013, 10:42:55 AM
Its not big and intrusive when you have a small lens on it like a 35 f2. Ok, its marginally bigger than a cropped body dslr but there isnt a huge amount of difference. Its marginally bigger than a Fuji xpro1.

Ive done street photography with a variety of cameras from Xpro1, D3s, D700, point and shoot type cameras - so sizes completely across the board. My view is as long as you have a small lens on it and you kinda tuck it under your arm a lot, a 5d's size is not much of a bother to people.

Just my opinion - I respect that you may think differently.
I don't do much street photography, but I do quite a bit of people photos at Jack-Up drilling rigs & Onshore rigs and I use 5D MK III + 50 f/1.4 (recently I've started using the 40 f/2.8 & 85 f/1.8 ) ... with that combo no one asks me about what camera I'm using, but if I put my 24-70 or 16-35 on 5D MK III, the rig crew start asking questions about my gear ... also most people unfamiliar with camera models (those are the kind of people who we are shooting anyway in street photography) usually cannot tell the difference between a 5D MK III and a 60D or a Rebel ( my wife keeps telling me that all my cameras look the same to her  ;D ) but the moment a good zoom lens or a slightly larger prime is mounted on it, people's heads start to turn ... so I totally agree with you that having a smaller prime lens is not intrusive, at least that's how I feel from my limited experience.
By the way I really like your website, simple but very effective ... the black & white theme peppered with just a few color images gives it an uncluttered look and make you want to read the content.
Great job. All the best.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: EvilTed on March 25, 2013, 10:50:21 AM
I would agree the 5DMKIII is a great camera, but for street I would disagree. Its too big and intrusive regardless how much gafa tape you use to reduce the bling. If it works for you then great but think you would be even less noticeable with a smaller camera.

I'd have to agree.
I even tried shooting my 5D MK3 on the street with a manual Zeiss 50mm this weekend, but it really sucked :(
It's too big and heavy.

I disagree with the OP comment regarding a Fuji X-Pro1 - this camera is a lot lighter and better suited for street IMHO.

Now I use Leicas for street work, preferring hyperfocal focussing...

ET
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: tomscott on March 25, 2013, 10:52:11 AM
The rangefinder camera has been the street choice for decades. Reason being it is small, light and to the subject it doesn't seem like you are photographing them as the viewfinder and your face is off at an angle.

35mm is more like the focal range of choice too. Many of the greats like Gary Winogrand, Tony Ray Jones, William Klein etc all used 24-35mm lenses. Getting closer was the moto, stalking the subject like prey.

Like this from Winogrand.

(http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/untitled-1969.jpg)

Cameras like the Fuji X100s, Xpro1, Leica M (for those that can afford it) are more suited IMO. I use a 5DMKIII as my commercial camera but I wouldn't take it out on the street even with the 50mm lens it is intimidating.

But again if it works for you then great. Just there are better options, the 5DMKIII apart from the fully fledged 1D series is one of the biggest DSLRs available.



Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: jcollett on March 25, 2013, 11:09:46 AM
I would like to add that the Sigma DP camera series is also quite capable of street shooting ... many of their qualities mirror that of rangefinders. 
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 25, 2013, 11:13:16 AM
The rangefinder camera has been the street choice for decades. Reason being it is small, light and to the subject it doesn't seem like you are photographing them as the viewfinder and your face is off at an angle.

35mm is more like the focal range of choice too. Many of the greats like Gary Winogrand, Tony Ray Jones, William Klein etc all used 24-35mm lenses. Getting closer was the moto, stalking the subject like prey.

Like this from Winogrand.

(http://artblart.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/untitled-1969.jpg)

Cameras like the Fuji X100s, Xpro1, Leica M (for those that can afford it) are more suited IMO. I use a 5DMKIII as my commercial camera but I wouldn't take it out on the street even with the 50mm lens it is intimidating.

But again if it works for you then great. Just there are better options, the 5DMKIII apart from the fully fledged 1D series is one of the biggest DSLRs available.




I think we are are talking about different kinds of street photography - its a pretty broad church. I am referring to the street photography that I conduct which is totally different to the kind I think you are talking about.  My street photography is more often about taking up a position, watching and waiting. Moreover most of my photography is in India and South East Asia. There is a different sensibility here. If the cameras you and some of the other guys suggest are 25% smaller it really doenst make all that much difference to how people will perceive you. How you carry yourself and carry your camera will. Its more about trying to make myself disappear for me than trying to make my camera smaller. There is something about the lens size I think that draws more attention more than the body size.

I do agree on the streets of say Manhatten or London a camera this size would not be good for me either - I dont shoot in places like that though.

In a sense its not fair just to compare on just size when I think most would agree that the 5d3 is going to be much more responsive that most other cameras. Attain focus better, shoot in low light better and be ready to shoot again without delay...

If you are interested in what street shooting is like is India have a look at this...
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/24540/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/24540/)

Hey, at the end of the day its what works for the individual of course....But then I think we are all agreed there... :)


Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: RS2021 on March 25, 2013, 12:31:24 PM
A key attraction for me with street photography has always been the immediacy and subject interaction...granted we can't do that with every shot.

In the end, it is not about gaffer tapes, or zooms, or hiding, or subterfuge...a shot becomes dear when it has a memory, a story, or moment however mundane.

I have done a fair bit of wandering...and as you indicate South Asia, here is a bucolic "street" shot...

Some years ago, during a trip into the villages of India, I came across this goat herder sitting on the grass... while all her goats were out in the field, this one kid-goat was milling around her feet coming up to nuzzle and she was clearly fond of it.

I learned that either his mom had died or had rejected the little guy and he had taken to hanging around the herder. I politely asked if I could take a picture and she agreed.

While this is clearly not a sharp picture, and I think I may have used a point and shoot, I still smile at remembering the encounter.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: RS2021 on March 25, 2013, 01:47:26 PM
And on the difference distance makes and immediacy... a couple of shots.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 26, 2013, 01:45:43 AM
A key attraction for me with street photography has always been the immediacy and subject interaction...granted we can't do that with every shot.

In the end, it is not about gaffer tapes, or zooms, or hiding, or subterfuge...a shot becomes dear when it has a memory, a story, or moment however mundane.

I have done a fair bit of wandering...and as you indicate South Asia, here is a bucolic "street" shot...

Some years ago, during a trip into the villages of India, I came across this goat herder sitting on the grass... while all her goats were out in the field, this one kid-goat was milling around her feet coming up to nuzzle and she was clearly fond of it.

I learned that either his mom had died or had rejected the little guy and he had taken to hanging around the herder. I politely asked if I could take a picture and she agreed.

While this is clearly not a sharp picture, and I think I may have used a point and shoot, I still smile at remembering the encounter.

I guess we will have to differ on our views on what is the attraction of street photography - to me it is not subject interaction but capturing life candidly. That is not to say that I do not interact with my subjects, I do but after the event, not before. Otherwise my presence is affecting the image.

Gaffer tape - as I have indicated, this primarily do with making people think my camera is old and so they are not inclined to steal it - its not a big deal.
Zooms - since you put this in the same sentence Ill make the assumption you are referring to my post - you will notice that I shoot with a small 35mm prime, close to my subject. I dont use zooms.
Subterfuge - I dont hide. I work close to my subjects and use my body language to disappear as much as I can by encouraging them to forget about me.

A shot can become dear for a variety of reasons, not just because someone has told you some interesting background to a picture.  I like layers to in my images - they can tell stories without my needing to ask anyone anything.
The shot in which you asked for a portrait is a nice shot and has good story.  For me a requested portrait in my opinion is not 'street photography'  in the traditional sense which I would suggest at least has the premise that pictures are not requested. I will occasionally request a portrait, Im not saying I see anything wrong with this. It is a different style of photography to that which I am practising however.

Yes its good to be polite and I often thank and engage people after I have taken a candid shot and talk to them and thank them if appropriate.

Your subsequent image - Im not sure what point you are trying to make since I never take images as far away as that -
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Grumbaki on March 27, 2013, 03:34:07 AM
Please people, those are the key words:

shooting predominantly in India and South East Asia.

Mark carey, in south east asia.

Except if he has local heritage, he will be conspicuous. There is no freaking point in trying to avoid it with a small camera.

Actually a large camera (and some skill in local langage) get you way better interaction and sneaky candids than touristy cameras. Show you are "local". I'm in china, got a tshirt made for friendly shooting spots that reads: just another alien photograph, give me your qq i'll give you your picture." (and then my own qq, which is a very local social network/messaging system). It's the most gimmicky thing ever but you get great results by knowing you are different but making use of it.

Actually the only bad point is that you get way more work with the portraits they'll ask, pics of you they wanna take, general discussion time but generally ends up in being great memories and discussion around a few beers.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 27, 2013, 05:20:23 AM
Please people, those are the key words:

shooting predominantly in India and South East Asia.

Mark carey, in south east asia.

Except if he has local heritage, he will be conspicuous. There is no freaking point in trying to avoid it with a small camera.

Actually a large camera (and some skill in local langage) get you way better interaction and sneaky candids than touristy cameras. Show you are "local". I'm in china, got a tshirt made for friendly shooting spots that reads: just another alien photograph, give me your qq i'll give you your picture." (and then my own qq, which is a very local social network/messaging system). It's the most gimmicky thing ever but you get great results by knowing you are different but making use of it.

Actually the only bad point is that you get way more work with the portraits they'll ask, pics of you they wanna take, general discussion time but generally ends up in being great memories and discussion around a few beers.


Of course westerners are conspicuous - how you conduct yourself  when you shoot however can make you dramatically less so.
Its been a while since I shot there but here are some results - gallery takes a little while to load properly.
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/pictures/vietnam/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/pictures/vietnam/)
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: passserby on March 27, 2013, 06:05:19 AM
You can do great street photography with any of the 5ds. It's more about the skill then the camera.

Check out this guy for instance:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/)
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/popular-interesting/ (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/popular-interesting/)
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Sith Zombie on March 27, 2013, 06:54:41 AM
While I'm not a major street photographer, I'v found for candid shots something like the nex 5n is well suited. You can have the camera at waist level, flip the screen up so you can look down at it for framing [classic twin lens reflex style!] and it makes it look like you are not even taking a picture but just messing with the controls. This works especially well if you have a puzzled look on your face  ;). The lens selection is getting better on nex and your capturing pictures with a aps-c sized sensor, a very good one at that.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 27, 2013, 07:27:47 AM
You can do great street photography with any of the 5ds. It's more about the skill then the camera.

Check out this guy for instance:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/)
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/popular-interesting/ (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/popular-interesting/)

Maciej is a brilliant photographer. Im going to be shooting with him in May in Istanblul and looking forward to it. The fact remains that when the light gets difficult the 5d3 will be a camera that handles high ISO much better and attains focus when the 5d2 or original 5d's are hunting.  All photography primarily relies on the skill of the photographer that is a given.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: LewisShermer on March 27, 2013, 08:02:30 AM
5Diii + 50mm 1.4 is the most perfect combo for street I've ever owned. I've been thinking about getting a 35mm but very undecided.

If you think the 5Diii is too heavy, you need to work out a little more, especially on your arms and shoulders...

If you think people get angry when being shot with a camera like the 5Diii then you probably need to work on your rapport a little. Maybe a smile, maybe a motion, maybe a couple of words or a conversation? You might even make new friends. Especially with chicks and older folk. The people that you most likely want to shoot are exhibitionists most of the time anyway, are they not?
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Ewinter on March 27, 2013, 08:29:12 AM
at 6'3" I don't get to be incognito, so I just go with it. my fave combo ATM is the 5diii and 100mm macro. it's not about the camera, or how small you can make yourself. it's about what you can do with the camera and how you react to others
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: miah on March 27, 2013, 03:05:02 PM
Mark Carey, I get that you believe a small prime like a 35 or 50mm is ideal for street shooting because they're lightweight and unobtrusive, but I (perhaps wrongly) infer from your posts and excellent blog that you feel using a long lens is somewhat akin to cheating. Certainly, we each have our own styles, and your galleries are truly admirable, but I'd like to offer up an additional point of view.

Like you, I believe in remaining as discreet as possible, melting into the background and letting the candid drama unfold around me. And while I agree that longer lenses are more intrusive as no one likes having a "big gun" aimed at them, they are often the only tool that allows you adequate distance to permit certain events to unfold unabated. When you can get up close, wide, bright lenses are awesome, but when you can't (or shouldn't), long lenses afford their own special anonymity.

For instance, while riding my motorcycle across Ecuador I stumbled upon a funeral procession (they were on foot). It was a sad day, to be sure, as a small baby had lost his/her life. But the glimpse this allowed into the lives of these mountain folk was truly engaging. There was no ethical opportunity to stop and pull my DSLR and wide angle lens out from my tankbag, so I was inclined to motor ahead, find a discreet place to pull over, and use my 70-300 lens to capture the scene without disturbing the procession or offending the distraught.

I can think of many other examples, but my point is that street shooting, like every other type of photography, requires a great deal of flexibility. And while carrying a longer lens adds weight and bulk to your kit, it's sometimes the only way to seize a moment.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 28, 2013, 03:00:57 AM
Mark Carey, I get that you believe a small prime like a 35 or 50mm is ideal for street shooting because they're lightweight and unobtrusive, but I (perhaps wrongly) infer from your posts and excellent blog that you feel using a long lens is somewhat akin to cheating. Certainly, we each have our own styles, and your galleries are truly admirable, but I'd like to offer up an additional point of view.

Like you, I believe in remaining as discreet as possible, melting into the background and letting the candid drama unfold around me. And while I agree that longer lenses are more intrusive as no one likes having a "big gun" aimed at them, they are often the only tool that allows you adequate distance to permit certain events to unfold unabated. When you can get up close, wide, bright lenses are awesome, but when you can't (or shouldn't), long lenses afford their own special anonymity.

For instance, while riding my motorcycle across Ecuador I stumbled upon a funeral procession (they were on foot). It was a sad day, to be sure, as a small baby had lost his/her life. But the glimpse this allowed into the lives of these mountain folk was truly engaging. There was no ethical opportunity to stop and pull my DSLR and wide angle lens out from my tankbag, so I was inclined to motor ahead, find a discreet place to pull over, and use my 70-300 lens to capture the scene without disturbing the procession or offending the distraught.

I can think of many other examples, but my point is that street shooting, like every other type of photography, requires a great deal of flexibility. And while carrying a longer lens adds weight and bulk to your kit, it's sometimes the only way to seize a moment.


High Miah - Thanks for your response and your kind words about my blog.  Cheating - hmm....I guess I do a little because I think of street photography as being intimate and storytelling and these are not properties of longer focal lengths. The perspective you get from longer focal lengths is totally different to how the human eye would see and so you can't really imagine that you might be standing close to these people. And, if you are going to be close, it makes people less nervous the smaller the lens you have. Thats just my experience and the kind of street photography I like - I realise that others may prefer different styles.

Long lenses definitely have their place. I use an 85 for work and it produces beautiful results and I feel its appropriate. I have a friend who shoots with a 70-200 and I marvel at all the interesting little details he picks out that I would never be able to get....
And of course you may be able to shoot places that I can't because I cant get physically close enough like the funeral procession you describe.

Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 28, 2013, 03:03:00 AM
5Diii + 50mm 1.4 is the most perfect combo for street I've ever owned. I've been thinking about getting a 35mm but very undecided.

If you think the 5Diii is too heavy, you need to work out a little more, especially on your arms and shoulders...

If you think people get angry when being shot with a camera like the 5Diii then you probably need to work on your rapport a little. Maybe a smile, maybe a motion, maybe a couple of words or a conversation? You might even make new friends. Especially with chicks and older folk. The people that you most likely want to shoot are exhibitionists most of the time anyway, are they not?

Not sure if that was directed at me but I agree I dont find the camera heavy.
I highly recommend the 35 f2 - basically its as light as a feather and 'good enough' for what we need to do.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 28, 2013, 03:07:47 AM
at 6'3" I don't get to be incognito, so I just go with it. my fave combo ATM is the 5diii and 100mm macro. it's not about the camera, or how small you can make yourself. it's about what you can do with the camera and how you react to others

Shooting at 100 mm is going to produce so completely different images  to shooting at 35mm it is not comparing like with like. If you are close then you must be taking tight shots only and if you are far away then your relationship with your subjects is going to be entirely different also, not to mention your perspective.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: LewisShermer on March 28, 2013, 05:45:14 AM
5Diii + 50mm 1.4 is the most perfect combo for street I've ever owned. I've been thinking about getting a 35mm but very undecided.

If you think the 5Diii is too heavy, you need to work out a little more, especially on your arms and shoulders...

If you think people get angry when being shot with a camera like the 5Diii then you probably need to work on your rapport a little. Maybe a smile, maybe a motion, maybe a couple of words or a conversation? You might even make new friends. Especially with chicks and older folk. The people that you most likely want to shoot are exhibitionists most of the time anyway, are they not?

Not sure if that was directed at me but I agree I dont find the camera heavy.
I highly recommend the 35 f2 - basically its as light as a feather and 'good enough' for what we need to do.

Nope, not at you... to the 2 groups of people that think the 5Diii is too heavy and that try and hide the fact they're going around taking photos of people.

I'll also throw in the people that complain about the new bottom of the range cameras that get released not being as good as £2000 cameras
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Rienzphotoz on March 28, 2013, 08:37:01 AM
the 2 groups of people that think the 5Diii is too heavy and that try and hide the fact they're going around taking photos of people.

I'll also throw in the people that complain about the new bottom of the range cameras that get released not being as good as £2000 cameras
;D ;D ;D ... good one.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Rienzphotoz on March 28, 2013, 08:38:47 AM
You can do great street photography with any of the 5ds. It's more about the skill then the camera.

Check out this guy for instance:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/)
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/popular-interesting/ (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/popular-interesting/)
+1
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 28, 2013, 08:39:06 AM
5Diii + 50mm 1.4 is the most perfect combo for street I've ever owned. I've been thinking about getting a 35mm but very undecided.

If you think the 5Diii is too heavy, you need to work out a little more, especially on your arms and shoulders...

If you think people get angry when being shot with a camera like the 5Diii then you probably need to work on your rapport a little. Maybe a smile, maybe a motion, maybe a couple of words or a conversation? You might even make new friends. Especially with chicks and older folk. The people that you most likely want to shoot are exhibitionists most of the time anyway, are they not?

Not sure if that was directed at me but I agree I dont find the camera heavy.
I highly recommend the 35 f2 - basically its as light as a feather and 'good enough' for what we need to do.

Nope, not at you... to the 2 groups of people that think the 5Diii is too heavy and that try and hide the fact they're going around taking photos of people.

I'll also throw in the people that complain about the new bottom of the range cameras that get released not being as good as £2000 cameras

yeah, image quality seems to be disregarded quite a lot when such making comparisons....
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: itsnotmeyouknow on March 28, 2013, 08:57:14 AM
I'll agree that in street photography, standard lengths are better as I always see street photography as including the environment the person is in.  It's not a simple photograph, a street photograph is in the street so its about the person's relationship with the background at least as much as it is about the person. 
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: EvilTed on March 28, 2013, 10:50:41 AM
Mark Carey, I get that you believe a small prime like a 35 or 50mm is ideal for street shooting because they're lightweight and unobtrusive, but I (perhaps wrongly) infer from your posts and excellent blog that you feel using a long lens is somewhat akin to cheating. Certainly, we each have our own styles, and your galleries are truly admirable, but I'd like to offer up an additional point of view.

Like you, I believe in remaining as discreet as possible, melting into the background and letting the candid drama unfold around me. And while I agree that longer lenses are more intrusive as no one likes having a "big gun" aimed at them, they are often the only tool that allows you adequate distance to permit certain events to unfold unabated. When you can get up close, wide, bright lenses are awesome, but when you can't (or shouldn't), long lenses afford their own special anonymity.

For instance, while riding my motorcycle across Ecuador I stumbled upon a funeral procession (they were on foot). It was a sad day, to be sure, as a small baby had lost his/her life. But the glimpse this allowed into the lives of these mountain folk was truly engaging. There was no ethical opportunity to stop and pull my DSLR and wide angle lens out from my tankbag, so I was inclined to motor ahead, find a discreet place to pull over, and use my 70-300 lens to capture the scene without disturbing the procession or offending the distraught.

I can think of many other examples, but my point is that street shooting, like every other type of photography, requires a great deal of flexibility. And while carrying a longer lens adds weight and bulk to your kit, it's sometimes the only way to seize a moment.

Quote
so I was inclined to motor ahead, find a discreet place to pull over, and use my 70-300 lens to capture the scene without disturbing the procession or offending the distraught

That is akin to sniping.
Find yourself a good place to hide and wait?
Sorry mate, but this voyeurism, not street photography.
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

ET
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: sandymandy on March 28, 2013, 12:55:52 PM

Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

Yes and its actually much harder to do than i thought. I think 70-300 mm isnt a good street focal range too plus its really noticable carrying such a big lens around. It also looks like a phallic symbol. RUDE! :D

I prefer 35mm and wider cuz it shows that people in context to the environment where they work or whatever. Also i prefer not only bokeh street shots. Sometimes its just the fun to have some 24mm f/8 Street photo with so many details to notice.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: RS2021 on March 28, 2013, 01:36:09 PM

I think 70-300 mm isnt a good street focal range too plus its really noticable carrying such a big lens around. It also looks like a phallic symbol. RUDE! :D

True, you don't want to be arrested for....exposing yourself.... ;)

I know, I know...I need to be.... shot...  ;D
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: miah on March 28, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
That is akin to sniping.
Find yourself a good place to hide and wait?
Sorry mate, but this voyeurism, not street photography.
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

ET

P-a-h-le-a-s-e: "sniping", "voyeurism?" "Having the balls to get up close?" You need to grow some manners there, Evil Ted. If not, you're the photographer who will give the rest of us a bad name.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Mark. To be clear, I'm not disparaging your preference for shorter focal lengths--not at all--that's why I stated that I only wanted to add an additional point of view. I personally choose not to so narrowly define "street shooting" that I refuse to use the best tool for the job when a particular situation arises. Longer focal lengths can be quite useful and don't necessarily preclude the environment or up-close story-telling aspect of the image. How an image is conceived and framed along with its chosen point of view are independent of focal length.

That said, I hear you loud and clear and agree with your overarching philosophy: close encounters are the best.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 29, 2013, 06:39:58 AM
That is akin to sniping.
Find yourself a good place to hide and wait?
Sorry mate, but this voyeurism, not street photography.
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

ET

P-a-h-le-a-s-e: "sniping", "voyeurism?" "Having the balls to get up close?" You need to grow some manners there, Evil Ted. If not, you're the photographer who will give the rest of us a bad name.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Mark. To be clear, I'm not disparaging your preference for shorter focal lengths--not at all--that's why I stated that I only wanted to add an additional point of view. I personally choose not to so narrowly define "street shooting" that I refuse to use the best tool for the job when a particular situation arises. Longer focal lengths can be quite useful and don't necessarily preclude the environment or up-close story-telling aspect of the image. How an image is conceived and framed along with its chosen point of view are independent of focal length.

That said, I hear you loud and clear and agree with your overarching philosophy: close encounters are the best!



My main point about lenses for me  is an aesthetic one since I am generally 'not' trying to engage with my subjects so. I talk quite a lot about this in my posts on the psychology behind my own street photography.
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/street-photography-technique-and-psychology-guide-post-3-image-2/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/street-photography-technique-and-psychology-guide-post-3-image-2/)

The aesthetic is what requires me to shoot close an wide because it is the perspective afforded by moderately wide lenses like the 35mm which is so appealing. The perspective is very close to what the human eye would see and so you feel like you are standing there, and, of course you are! Longer lenses crunch up perspective in a totally different way and depth of field becomes minuscule.  Its just a different look. Its a look that for me suits portraiture very well but I personally would find it less engaging for wider scenes because it would look unnatural due to that perspective.

Clearly in this instance you were shooting a funeral so your use of a long lens was totally understandable in my opinion.





Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: pedro on March 29, 2013, 07:21:43 AM
Intresting thread here. I don't know if it was this site who featured Markus Hartel. He does a lot of SP either using a 5D series body and an 28 prime lens attached to it. He also did a project on The Americans 2010. Revisiting Robert Frank's track. In this project he did a lot by using a Leica range finder, the same way Frank worked back in the 50s.

http://www.markushartel.com/blog/ (http://www.markushartel.com/blog/)
If you scroll this first one quite down a bit you'll find the "learn from Markus" section, which is very helpful and inspiring: http://www.markushartel.com/blog/category/learn-from-markus (http://www.markushartel.com/blog/category/learn-from-markus)

http://www.markushartel.com/ (http://www.markushartel.com/)

http://www.hydeparkphotography.net/interview-with-markus-hartel/ (http://www.hydeparkphotography.net/interview-with-markus-hartel/)
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: miah on March 29, 2013, 11:09:10 AM
My main point about lenses for me  is an aesthetic one since I am generally 'not' trying to engage with my subjects so. I talk quite a lot about this in my posts on the psychology behind my own street photography.
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/street-photography-technique-and-psychology-guide-post-3-image-2/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/street-photography-technique-and-psychology-guide-post-3-image-2/)

The aesthetic is what requires me to shoot close an wide because it is the perspective afforded by moderately wide lenses like the 35mm which is so appealing. The perspective is very close to what the human eye would see and so you feel like you are standing there, and, of course you are! Longer lenses crunch up perspective in a totally different way and depth of field becomes minuscule.  Its just a different look. Its a look that for me suits portraiture very well but I personally would find it less engaging for wider scenes because it would look unnatural due to that perspective.

Clearly in this instance you were shooting a funeral so your use of a long lens was totally understandable in my opinion.
Point taken, Mark. I had previously read your blog and found it quite interesting; thanks.

One issue I have, since I travel by dirt bike, is weight and bulk. I've found I have to leave a lot of gear at home and carry maybe two lenses: a 24-105 & 70-300. These cover a range for everything from landscapes to wildlife. I hate to leave my 100 macro behind, but tough choices must be made. Regarding 35 vs 50 vs 24-105 zoom, do you feel it would be worth the stretch to add a 35 or 50 to the mix, in addition to the 24-105, and if so, which focal length would be your hands-down favorite?

I'm returning to your neck of the woods for 3 months (Nov - Jan in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia & Viet Nam) and want to spend more time off my bike and on the street with camera in-hand. If you advise that a fast, short prime is a must, I might be able to find a nook or cranny to squeeze it in.

Intresting thread here. I don't know if it was this site who featured Markus Hartel. He does a lot of SP either using a 5D series body and an 28 prime lens attached to it. He also did a project on The Americans 2010. Revisiting Robert Frank's track. In this project he did a lot by using a Leica range finder, the same way Frank worked back in the 50s.
Thanks for the link, pedro. Good stuff!
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: EvilTed on March 29, 2013, 11:41:00 AM
That is akin to sniping.
Find yourself a good place to hide and wait?
Sorry mate, but this voyeurism, not street photography.
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

ET

Get over yourself and go out and shoot.
Once you learn something about the streets, please come back and share...

ET

P-a-h-le-a-s-e: "sniping", "voyeurism?" "Having the balls to get up close?" You need to grow some manners there, Evil Ted. If not, you're the photographer who will give the rest of us a bad name.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Mark. To be clear, I'm not disparaging your preference for shorter focal lengths--not at all--that's why I stated that I only wanted to add an additional point of view. I personally choose not to so narrowly define "street shooting" that I refuse to use the best tool for the job when a particular situation arises. Longer focal lengths can be quite useful and don't necessarily preclude the environment or up-close story-telling aspect of the image. How an image is conceived and framed along with its chosen point of view are independent of focal length.

That said, I hear you loud and clear and agree with your overarching philosophy: close encounters are the best!
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: distant.star on March 29, 2013, 05:48:19 PM
That is akin to sniping.
Find yourself a good place to hide and wait?
Sorry mate, but this voyeurism, not street photography.
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

ET

Probably could be better said.

I'm not a big fan of "sniping" or "voyeurism" but in the quoted context, they're inappropriate terms. Grieving people can be sensitive, and there is no good reason to appear to possibly disrespect their rituals.

As for what is or is not "street photography," there are as many definitions as there are people with cameras. Generally considered it can be characterized as candid photography of people in public places. Beyond that, it's all up for grabs. A father at disneyworld taking pictures of his kids engaged in horsing around with one another can legitimately be considered street photography. Bruce Gilden jams a camera and flash in someone's face on the street, captures a startled look, and it's considered street photography. It's all over the map, and we get in trouble trying to define it for others.

Finally, balls are not what it really takes to get "up close and personal" in street photography. The first requirement is a care for other people and a desire to validate their lives. We are not alone, or as Donne wrote, "no man is an island," and our connections with others is, I think, the most powerful driving force for good street photography. Like asking for a first date, our early efforts at photographing people we don't know may be nerve-jarring. If you do it for the right reasons, eventually it becomes comfortable -- perhaps like the familiarity of a marriage.

There is an iconic image of protest during the Vietnam war (maybe from Kent State) where a protester puts the stem of a flower into the bore of a soldier's rifle during a confrontation. Perphas it would be equally helpful for street photograpers to tape a flower on our cameras. At worse, it might increase the smile quotient.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 30, 2013, 02:09:43 AM
My main point about lenses for me  is an aesthetic one since I am generally 'not' trying to engage with my subjects so. I talk quite a lot about this in my posts on the psychology behind my own street photography.
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/street-photography-technique-and-psychology-guide-post-3-image-2/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/street-photography-technique-and-psychology-guide-post-3-image-2/)

The aesthetic is what requires me to shoot close an wide because it is the perspective afforded by moderately wide lenses like the 35mm which is so appealing. The perspective is very close to what the human eye would see and so you feel like you are standing there, and, of course you are! Longer lenses crunch up perspective in a totally different way and depth of field becomes minuscule.  Its just a different look. Its a look that for me suits portraiture very well but I personally would find it less engaging for wider scenes because it would look unnatural due to that perspective.

Clearly in this instance you were shooting a funeral so your use of a long lens was totally understandable in my opinion.
Point taken, Mark. I had previously read your blog and found it quite interesting; thanks.

One issue I have, since I travel by dirt bike, is weight and bulk. I've found I have to leave a lot of gear at home and carry maybe two lenses: a 24-105 & 70-300. These cover a range for everything from landscapes to wildlife. I hate to leave my 100 macro behind, but tough choices must be made. Regarding 35 vs 50 vs 24-105 zoom, do you feel it would be worth the stretch to add a 35 or 50 to the mix, in addition to the 24-105, and if so, which focal length would be your hands-down favorite?

I'm returning to your neck of the woods for 3 months (Nov - Jan in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia & Viet Nam) and want to spend more time off my bike and on the street with camera in-hand. If you advise that a fast, short prime is a must, I might be able to find a nook or cranny to squeeze it in.

Intresting thread here. I don't know if it was this site who featured Markus Hartel. He does a lot of SP either using a 5D series body and an 28 prime lens attached to it. He also did a project on The Americans 2010. Revisiting Robert Frank's track. In this project he did a lot by using a Leica range finder, the same way Frank worked back in the 50s.
Thanks for the link, pedro. Good stuff!


Weight is an important consideration for me. While Im travelling I find opportunities to shoot documentary stuff all the time and do so. I find I really miss my 24-70 for this and since the Canon  new 24-70 is such and amazing lens.
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2012/jo-and-karim-canon-ef-24-70mm-f2-8-ii-usm-l-review/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2012/jo-and-karim-canon-ef-24-70mm-f2-8-ii-usm-l-review/)
...I really missed it on this trip. its lighter and just an all round better lens than the old one.

I can however get by the the 35 and 50 if I had to. Next time Ill probably ditch the 50 and take the 35 and 24-70 just to keep weight down and flexibility high. For street work I think the size of a 24-70 would spook too many people so it is 35mm f2 all the way.
I would definitely squeeze a 35mm f2 into your kit. The psychological aspects of shooting with such a small lens are not to be understated and its really small and light. It also shoots at f2 which can get you out of a few low-light scrapes....


Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 30, 2013, 02:15:42 AM
That is akin to sniping.
Find yourself a good place to hide and wait?
Sorry mate, but this voyeurism, not street photography.
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

ET

Probably could be better said.

I'm not a big fan of "sniping" or "voyeurism" but in the quoted context, they're inappropriate terms. Grieving people can be sensitive, and there is no good reason to appear to possibly disrespect their rituals.

As for what is or is not "street photography," there are as many definitions as there are people with cameras. Generally considered it can be characterized as candid photography of people in public places. Beyond that, it's all up for grabs. A father at disneyworld taking pictures of his kids engaged in horsing around with one another can legitimately be considered street photography. Bruce Gilden jams a camera and flash in someone's face on the street, captures a startled look, and it's considered street photography. It's all over the map, and we get in trouble trying to define it for others.

Finally, balls are not what it really takes to get "up close and personal" in street photography. The first requirement is a care for other people and a desire to validate their lives. We are not alone, or as Donne wrote, "no man is an island," and our connections with others is, I think, the most powerful driving force for good street photography. Like asking for a first date, our early efforts at photographing people we don't know may be nerve-jarring. If you do it for the right reasons, eventually it becomes comfortable -- perhaps like the familiarity of a marriage.

There is an iconic image of protest during the Vietnam war (maybe from Kent State) where a protester puts the stem of a flower into the bore of a soldier's rifle during a confrontation. Perphas it would be equally helpful for street photograpers to tape a flower on our cameras. At worse, it might increase the smile quotient.


Your thoughts re Bruce Gilden are almost verbatim what I wrote on my FB page a few days ago responding to someone. I wrote this.....

..........'For example, I find Bruce Gildens off camera flash in your face, scaring the S____ out of you, photographing the result and saying how you 'know its a street photo if you can smell the street' - well, dubious at best. But some love it and most would call him a street photographer....'
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Ewinter on March 30, 2013, 07:37:44 PM
Quote
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...
Wrong. Taking pictures on the street is the point of street photography

And whether I'm using 100mm or 35mm, it still doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing. That was my point, not that 100mm is better than any shorter focal length
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: expatinasia on March 30, 2013, 09:28:02 PM
It always makes me chuckle when I see people use tape to hide the Canon logo etc.

You are generally very safe in south east Asia, probably much more so than in many western countries, but the idea that putting tape on a camera is going to make you any less attractive to an opportune mugger, does not imvho make any sense. I would imagine that to most in need of a quick fix of cash - for whatever purpose - are perfectly happy with whichever brand of camera you may have. In fact, a smart mugger might even wonder why you had gone to the bother of trying to conceal the camera as something it is not (ie. non-branded, older, broken etc) and take even more interest in it.

Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: archiea on March 30, 2013, 09:29:21 PM
Yeah... just another day of street photography... don't mind me...  :o

(http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13782.0;attach=30243;image)

Here's my kit!  granted with this glass I can do street photography from  a street in ANOTHER ZIP CODE from my subject... but hey..
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: EdB on March 30, 2013, 09:32:34 PM
That is akin to sniping.
Find yourself a good place to hide and wait?
Sorry mate, but this voyeurism, not street photography.
Having the balls to get up close and personal to take the shot in the first place is the whole point of street photography...

ET

P-a-h-le-a-s-e: "sniping", "voyeurism?" "Having the balls to get up close?" You need to grow some manners there, Evil Ted. If not, you're the photographer who will give the rest of us a bad name.


Shooting with a long lens is just as disrespectful as getting up close. If you believe the people you are photographing don't want to be photographed in their grief then don't do it from any distance. That type of photography gives us just as much as a bad name.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: archiea on March 30, 2013, 09:38:07 PM
This post is a supplement to my earlier blog post on the Psychology and technique in street photography.  I am an experienced street photographer shooting predominantly in India and South East Asia. I have for the last year or so moved over to a 5dmk3 as my main camera and the more I use it the more I like it.

If you are interested to see what I think of this camera, good and bad, and what other gear I use please take a look.

Thanks.
Mark.

http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/my-street-photography-kit/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/my-street-photography-kit/)

C'mon mark, don't you want to walk around with one of these BIG WHITE-ZILLA LENSES in your travels....
(http://shashinki.com/shop/images/JJC-LH87-W-01.jpg)

Canon BLING at its best!!!!
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: RS2021 on March 30, 2013, 10:13:01 PM
It always makes me chuckle when I see people use tape to hide the Canon logo etc.

Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.

+1

Ding ding ding ;)
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: miah on March 30, 2013, 10:17:32 PM
Quote
Shooting with a long lens is just as disrespectful as getting up close. If you believe the people you are photographing don't want to be photographed in their grief then don't do it from any distance. That type of photography gives us just as much as a bad name.

Perhaps. But in the case I cited, which was just one of many examples I could have cited to underscore my point that longer focal lengths can be useful in street shooting, I didn't know that they didn't want to be photographed. I just thought it was disrespectful to even interrupt them to ask, which I typically do before shooting anyone. We're all going to be in a funeral one day, no one escapes that one; it's part of life. And the image I snapped from afar was quite respectful in that it showed little detail of the individuals involved, and more of the procession, the custom, the way in which this particular culture says goodbye to a loved one.

As others have pointed out, it's not productive to try and define "street shooting" for anyone else. But I think we can probably agree that street shooting occurs "on the street," that is, in public spaces where we all give up a bit of our privacy by virtue of simply being there.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 31, 2013, 12:18:05 AM
It always makes me chuckle when I see people use tape to hide the Canon logo etc.

You are generally very safe in south east Asia, probably much more so than in many western countries, but the idea that putting tape on a camera is going to make you any less attractive to an opportune mugger, does not imvho make any sense. I would imagine that to most in need of a quick fix of cash - for whatever purpose - are perfectly happy with whichever brand of camera you may have. In fact, a smart mugger might even wonder why you had gone to the bother of trying to conceal the camera as something it is not (ie. non-branded, older, broken etc) and take even more interest in it.

Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.

I would disagree with your psychology Im afraid.
For a start Im not trying to hide any specific logo. I just want to make the camera look a bit beaten up. I have found myself in all sorts of situations where a shiny new camera would be beacon to someone who was keeping an eye out for that sort of thing. Its a no brainer. Most people I meet actually think my camera is broken and if some opportunistic thief's think they are going to steal from me or the next guy I would suggest they will probably go for the shiny camera.
On the street it also has the benefit of not flashing anything white, ie the writing. If I can so anything not to draw the eye a little I do.
I also think at some level if you are not wandering around poor neighbourhoods with equipment that screams look how flashy and expensive I am' then that is probably is not such  a bad thing. I mean that in the sense that you are not flaunting your wealth.


At the end of the day its just a bit of black tape on my camera and I suspect it does me a bit more good than harm.

Point taken about Asia being safe though - I totally agree. I have never had anything stolen there. Much safer than at home. My kit doesn't go out with me every day at home so I just try and minimise my chances. I have to say I felt I definitely had to keep my wits about me in Delhi, however.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on March 31, 2013, 12:33:50 AM
Quote
Shooting with a long lens is just as disrespectful as getting up close. If you believe the people you are photographing don't want to be photographed in their grief then don't do it from any distance. That type of photography gives us just as much as a bad name.

Perhaps. But in the case I cited, which was just one of many examples I could have cited to underscore my point that longer focal lengths can be useful in street shooting, I didn't know that they didn't want to be photographed. I just thought it was disrespectful to even interrupt them to ask, which I typically do before shooting anyone. We're all going to be in a funeral one day, no one escapes that one; it's part of life. And the image I snapped from afar was quite respectful in that it showed little detail of the individuals involved, and more of the procession, the custom, the way in which this particular culture says goodbye to a loved one.

As others have pointed out, it's not productive to try and define "street shooting" for anyone else. But I think we can probably agree that street shooting occurs "on the street," that is, in public spaces where we all give up a bit of our privacy by virtue of simply being there.


The disrespect was not 'shooting it'. Had you waded in to their midst and drawn any attention away from the funeral, that would have been the disrespectful thing and you chose not to do that. Sometimes we choose a long lens for other reasons than to hide.

Ive shot in churches where the priest was happy with me to shoot with a long lens but not a short one. He didnt mind me shooting as long as it wasnt an intrusion. Its not a million miles away from this case.

If any of you are interested in respectful photographers you should check out this.
War Photographer - James Nachtwey 1/7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_vXfW94Xkc#ws)
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Rienzphotoz on March 31, 2013, 05:47:25 AM
You are generally very safe in south east Asia, probably much more so than in many western countries,
Highly debatable ... lets not go there :)
In fact, a smart mugger might even wonder why you had gone to the bother of trying to conceal the camera as something it is not (ie. non-branded, older, broken etc) and take even more interest in it.
If he is a "smart mugger" he wouldn't be stealing beat up stuff that are fixed with a tape. You are just over analyzing a time tested method.
Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.
You guess right, there is no harm in a talented photographer displaying his work, especially if he is as good as Mark.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Rienzphotoz on March 31, 2013, 06:13:38 AM
If any of you are interested in respectful photographers you should check out this.
War Photographer - James Nachtwey 1/7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_vXfW94Xkc#ws)
My thoughts after watching the video:
Sad: for the people
Cringe: at the choice of words used by the executives
Awe & Respect: for the photographer and his single minded focus
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: itsnotmeyouknow on March 31, 2013, 08:59:04 AM
You can do street photography with a DSLR.  Sometimes you might have to stay in one spot for a while so people adjust to you being there, and you fade in to the background in people's eyes.  I find that the thing that makes me stand out more is when I have a hood on a 24 - 70 lens.  The hood marks you out as 'pro'.  Canon's longer lenses being white don't help you fade into the background though!
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: expatinasia on March 31, 2013, 10:47:40 AM
You are generally very safe in south east Asia, probably much more so than in many western countries,
Highly debatable ... lets not go there :)
In fact, a smart mugger might even wonder why you had gone to the bother of trying to conceal the camera as something it is not (ie. non-branded, older, broken etc) and take even more interest in it.
If he is a "smart mugger" he wouldn't be stealing beat up stuff that are fixed with a tape. You are just over analyzing a time tested method.
Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.
You guess right, there is no harm in a talented photographer displaying his work, especially if he is as good as Mark.

Really? Many people would claim that most countries in SE Asia are much safer than the big western cities in the US or Europe. I am not sure how much time you have spent in either but I have spent a lot of time in SE Asia and Europe.

As for the thread, and Mark's work. No comment. This thread is purely to build interest in his website. At least that is the main aim, both through SE linkage and actual human clicks.

And as for that bit in the middle?! Time tested? Over analyzing? - It's tape on an almost brand new camera, how stupid do you think these muggers are?! Do you seriously believe that a drugged up mugger is going to spend time looking whether it is a 50D, 5D Mark I, II, or III and whether its owner has taken care of it properly....LOL
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: distant.star on March 31, 2013, 01:41:59 PM
.
Thanks for the video, Mark. Interesting as I've been on two sides of that story -- photographer and editorial staff. It can seem very cold as editors sit and discuss the merits of publishing different images, especially ones so graphic and wrenching. It can feel so disconnected from the reality portrayed.

On the photographer side, it's really hard to bring a camera into that setting. For me, it's almost like going over a wall -- you just don't want to do it, but once you're over, it's about getting the shots and nothing else. The heartbreak for the folks comes later -- with the images. And I think if you don't feel that emotion, the pictures won't show it. Psychopaths don't make good photographers, I guess.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Hobby Shooter on April 01, 2013, 09:42:54 PM
You are generally very safe in south east Asia, probably much more so than in many western countries,
Highly debatable ... lets not go there :)
In fact, a smart mugger might even wonder why you had gone to the bother of trying to conceal the camera as something it is not (ie. non-branded, older, broken etc) and take even more interest in it.
If he is a "smart mugger" he wouldn't be stealing beat up stuff that are fixed with a tape. You are just over analyzing a time tested method.
Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.
You guess right, there is no harm in a talented photographer displaying his work, especially if he is as good as Mark.

Really? Many people would claim that most countries in SE Asia are much safer than the big western cities in the US or Europe. I am not sure how much time you have spent in either but I have spent a lot of time in SE Asia and Europe.

As for the thread, and Mark's work. No comment. This thread is purely to build interest in his website. At least that is the main aim, both through SE linkage and actual human clicks.

And as for that bit in the middle?! Time tested? Over analyzing? - It's tape on an almost brand new camera, how stupid do you think these muggers are?! Do you seriously believe that a drugged up mugger is going to spend time looking whether it is a 50D, 5D Mark I, II, or III and whether its owner has taken care of it properly....LOL
I'm with you on this one. I have spent the largest part of the last ten years in South East Asia and so far have I never been threatened. It's a matter of common sense. In Jakarta obviously you have to take serious precautions but in Indochina I have mostly been fine. I have ended up in the wrong spots a couple of times, but those were late night when my judgement has been a bit blurred and I didn't carry any gear.

The only precaution camera wise I have taken is that I have changed the strap from the shiny Canon EOS 5D Mark III that also screams out: "I have a new cool camera, look at me!". Maybe not so much for safety as for not trying to draw attention to myself, which is not easy anyway since I am quite tall and blond and stand out whatever I try anyway.

As for people promoting themselves here, if they want to do that, that's fine by me but it's not my style.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Mark Carey on April 02, 2013, 09:49:32 AM
You are generally very safe in south east Asia, probably much more so than in many western countries,
Highly debatable ... lets not go there :)
In fact, a smart mugger might even wonder why you had gone to the bother of trying to conceal the camera as something it is not (ie. non-branded, older, broken etc) and take even more interest in it.
If he is a "smart mugger" he wouldn't be stealing beat up stuff that are fixed with a tape. You are just over analyzing a time tested method.
Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.
You guess right, there is no harm in a talented photographer displaying his work, especially if he is as good as Mark.

Really? Many people would claim that most countries in SE Asia are much safer than the big western cities in the US or Europe. I am not sure how much time you have spent in either but I have spent a lot of time in SE Asia and Europe.

As for the thread, and Mark's work. No comment. This thread is purely to build interest in his website. At least that is the main aim, both through SE linkage and actual human clicks.

And as for that bit in the middle?! Time tested? Over analyzing? - It's tape on an almost brand new camera, how stupid do you think these muggers are?! Do you seriously believe that a drugged up mugger is going to spend time looking whether it is a 50D, 5D Mark I, II, or III and whether its owner has taken care of it properly....LOL
I'm with you on this one. I have spent the largest part of the last ten years in South East Asia and so far have I never been threatened. It's a matter of common sense. In Jakarta obviously you have to take serious precautions but in Indochina I have mostly been fine. I have ended up in the wrong spots a couple of times, but those were late night when my judgement has been a bit blurred and I didn't carry any gear.

The only precaution camera wise I have taken is that I have changed the strap from the shiny Canon EOS 5D Mark III that also screams out: "I have a new cool camera, look at me!". Maybe not so much for safety as for not trying to draw attention to myself, which is not easy anyway since I am quite tall and blond and stand out whatever I try anyway.

As for people promoting themselves here, if they want to do that, that's fine by me but it's not my style.


Well, I already answered the point on my reasoning behind making my camera look a bit beaten up, if this poster wishes to continue with the idea that it is to deter 'muggers' who wont differentiate then he hasn't read my earlier  response.
My camera no longer looks like a shiny 5d3 for various reasons, tatty strap, tatty, pealing tape etc You are welcome to think that makes no difference at all to the whether that camera will be targeted  for any kind of theft but Im afraid I would have to disagree.

I do think your body language can affect greatly how much attention is drawn to yourself regardless of your size.

Self promotion?  One of the reasons I write blog posts is to encourage views to it yes that is true. Did I post here to encourage people to visit my site - yes I did.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: distant.star on April 02, 2013, 12:49:07 PM
Self promotion?  One of the reasons I write blog posts is to encourage views to it yes that is true. Did I post here to encourage people to visit my site - yes I did.

Thanks. I'm glad you did.

I'm always looking for people worth reading -- especially when they have something useful to say about street photography.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: Hobby Shooter on April 02, 2013, 08:43:21 PM
You are generally very safe in south east Asia, probably much more so than in many western countries,
Highly debatable ... lets not go there :)
In fact, a smart mugger might even wonder why you had gone to the bother of trying to conceal the camera as something it is not (ie. non-branded, older, broken etc) and take even more interest in it.
If he is a "smart mugger" he wouldn't be stealing beat up stuff that are fixed with a tape. You are just over analyzing a time tested method.
Still this thread seems to be a good way for Mark to advertise his website. No harm there, I guess.
You guess right, there is no harm in a talented photographer displaying his work, especially if he is as good as Mark.

Really? Many people would claim that most countries in SE Asia are much safer than the big western cities in the US or Europe. I am not sure how much time you have spent in either but I have spent a lot of time in SE Asia and Europe.

As for the thread, and Mark's work. No comment. This thread is purely to build interest in his website. At least that is the main aim, both through SE linkage and actual human clicks.

And as for that bit in the middle?! Time tested? Over analyzing? - It's tape on an almost brand new camera, how stupid do you think these muggers are?! Do you seriously believe that a drugged up mugger is going to spend time looking whether it is a 50D, 5D Mark I, II, or III and whether its owner has taken care of it properly....LOL
I'm with you on this one. I have spent the largest part of the last ten years in South East Asia and so far have I never been threatened. It's a matter of common sense. In Jakarta obviously you have to take serious precautions but in Indochina I have mostly been fine. I have ended up in the wrong spots a couple of times, but those were late night when my judgement has been a bit blurred and I didn't carry any gear.

The only precaution camera wise I have taken is that I have changed the strap from the shiny Canon EOS 5D Mark III that also screams out: "I have a new cool camera, look at me!". Maybe not so much for safety as for not trying to draw attention to myself, which is not easy anyway since I am quite tall and blond and stand out whatever I try anyway.

As for people promoting themselves here, if they want to do that, that's fine by me but it's not my style.


Well, I already answered the point on my reasoning behind making my camera look a bit beaten up, if this poster wishes to continue with the idea that it is to deter 'muggers' who wont differentiate then he hasn't read my earlier  response.
My camera no longer looks like a shiny 5d3 for various reasons, tatty strap, tatty, pealing tape etc You are welcome to think that makes no difference at all to the whether that camera will be targeted  for any kind of theft but Im afraid I would have to disagree.

I do think your body language can affect greatly how much attention is drawn to yourself regardless of your size.

Self promotion?  One of the reasons I write blog posts is to encourage views to it yes that is true. Did I post here to encourage people to visit my site - yes I did.
I completely agree with you about body language. A lot of it is down to how you carry yourself, no matter what gear you are carrying. If you look apprehensive and not sure what to do there definitely is a higher risk of being approached by the wrong people.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: EdB on April 02, 2013, 11:35:32 PM
Quote
Shooting with a long lens is just as disrespectful as getting up close. If you believe the people you are photographing don't want to be photographed in their grief then don't do it from any distance. That type of photography gives us just as much as a bad name.

Perhaps. But in the case I cited, which was just one of many examples I could have cited to underscore my point that longer focal lengths can be useful in street shooting, I didn't know that they didn't want to be photographed. I just thought it was disrespectful to even interrupt them to ask, which I typically do before shooting anyone. We're all going to be in a funeral one day, no one escapes that one; it's part of life. And the image I snapped from afar was quite respectful in that it showed little detail of the individuals involved, and more of the procession, the custom, the way in which this particular culture says goodbye to a loved one.

As others have pointed out, it's not productive to try and define "street shooting" for anyone else. But I think we can probably agree that street shooting occurs "on the street," that is, in public spaces where we all give up a bit of our privacy by virtue of simply being there.

Removing yourself from the situation by increasing distance removes a lot of emotion from the image. Watch the video Mark posted of Nachtwey, he is right in the middle of the scene very close to his subjects. You don't get those kinds of images being two blocks away. I said it before, if you don't feel comfortable shooting it up close, don't shoot it at all.

In the case of the funeral procession and without seeing the image, I would venture a guess that the shot is more documentary in nature than actual street photography.

And FWIW, Nachtwey doesn't shoot street photography, he is a documentary photographer. A lot of people seem to think if it's shot on the street it is "street" photography. That doesn't cut it in my view.
Title: Re: My full street photography kit and why my 5dmk3 is perfect for street shooting.
Post by: wickidwombat on April 08, 2013, 08:44:32 PM
Please people, those are the key words:

shooting predominantly in India and South East Asia.

Mark carey, in south east asia.

Except if he has local heritage, he will be conspicuous. There is no freaking point in trying to avoid it with a small camera.

Actually a large camera (and some skill in local langage) get you way better interaction and sneaky candids than touristy cameras. Show you are "local". I'm in china, got a tshirt made for friendly shooting spots that reads: just another alien photograph, give me your qq i'll give you your picture." (and then my own qq, which is a very local social network/messaging system). It's the most gimmicky thing ever but you get great results by knowing you are different but making use of it.

Actually the only bad point is that you get way more work with the portraits they'll ask, pics of you they wanna take, general discussion time but generally ends up in being great memories and discussion around a few beers.

haha love the qq t shirt idea!