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Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on March 28, 2013, 07:04:54 AM

Title: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Canon Rumors on March 28, 2013, 07:04:54 AM
A new spec list
A test camera that could be the EOS 7D Mark II has been specced at Northlight.

Specifications

If the 19 AF points are true, I imagine it’s an all new AF system. Previously we’ve been told the AF system in the next camera would be based around the current 61 point AF system of the EOS-1D X and EOS 5D Mark III.

Source: [NL]

cr

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Jan Jasinski on March 28, 2013, 07:12:14 AM
If these specs are really what the 7D2 will be then I see no point of waiting so long for this.
Might as well buy a 7D or just go FF.

1 CF card surprised me and the 19 AF points, sounds like the current 7D with "slight" improvements...

Edit*

If this is a 70D then I can accept these specs...
It is a CR1 so nothing is certain. Canon aren't too quick on these new releases  ::)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: siegsAR on March 28, 2013, 07:14:19 AM
A test camera means how many months before hitting retail shelves? 5 maybe?

Could those specs warrant a higher or same price tag as the 6D?


@Jan Jasinski
Those slight improvements were just around what I've expected, ya know just throw in Wifi and GPS, but there's a jump on the ISO.

As per CR if its a new AF system then maybe its from a new sensor coz why won't they put Digic 6 on it? but that remains to be seen.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: vlim on March 28, 2013, 07:22:50 AM
the biggest interrogations seem to be on the AF sytem and the sensor, new ones or not ::)

With these specs i guess we can expect an under 2000 $/€ body...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 28, 2013, 07:34:11 AM
"Gamechanger"? My 2 cents... (note that one beta-tester here reported there are several different test bodies in the wild):

* 21mp? Yes, that certainly sounds like Canon, they'll want to keep the specs & price above the "entry-level" 20mp 6d but below the 22mp 5d3 ... big question of course if this is the famed "next gen" high-dr low-noise sensor.

* AF tracking in live view? Come on, that has to be a joke - unless this a completely other design the af pixels on the sensor only tell the camera which way to contrast af.

* GPS/WiFi - so we can expect the camera to miss the external flash (that's where the antennas are) and you have to buy a €300 or €500 (with af assist) piece of equipment just to control off-camera flash just like the 6d? That's probably also the reason why there still is no built-in rt controller even in these 7d2 specs... thanks. Canon.

* Video ‘stills burst’ mode 30/60 fps: Interesting, the buffer on the lv digic5-6d/5d3 is also larger than digic4 - so even these cameras might be able to do quick/large lv "silent pictures" with Magic Lantern when it's out of alpha.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: CanNotYet on March 28, 2013, 07:39:44 AM
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Bob Howland on March 28, 2013, 07:42:57 AM
21MP APS-C? The 5D3 at ISO 102K is pretty noisy. I can just imagine what this will be like at that ISO.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: traveller on March 28, 2013, 07:45:22 AM
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.

I agree, these would be pretty disappointing specifications for a 7D MkII, even if the new sensor was superb.  It would make more sense if this was a 70D prototype, allowing the 7D MkII to raise the bar. 

This said, it is possible that Canon and Nikon are "collaborating" to deny users a high performance APS-C body, thus forcing them to switch to full frame... Rumours and conspiricy theories go hand in hand!  ;)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: jebrady03 on March 28, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
This does sound as the 70D to me...

I'm not one to complain about rumors or generally even join rumor discussions, but I agree with this wholeheartedly.  This is about what I would expect from the 70D, not the 7D2.  I would venture a guess that if this is the prototype that makes it to market, LOTS of faithful 7D owners will be very upset if they were looking to upgrade and those who aren't looking to upgrade will be VERY happy.  IMO, that's not exactly how you want your current user-base to feel.  You want the current users who are looking to upgrade to be excited and those forced to stay where they're at to feel envious.

Again, it's just a rumor (a CR1 at that) so we can't put a whole lot of stock in it but I would not be surprised at all if this was in fact one of the many prototypes floating around.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Old Sarge on March 28, 2013, 08:00:21 AM
I was disappointed with the specs on the 6D when it was introduced as I was really considering a move (not a switch) to FF but wanted something less expensive than a 5DIII.  Underwhelmed, I skipped the 6D.  I would purchase an updated 7D if the specs were great but these are, once again, underwhelming.  Looks like my best move is to save my pennies from my pension and move to the 5DIII though it isn't really perfect for my uses.  Or I could stay with my current stable and add some more L glass.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: siegsAR on March 28, 2013, 08:03:01 AM
the biggest interrogations seem to be on the AF sytem and the sensor, new ones or not ::)

With these specs i guess we can expect an under 2000 $/€ body...

Was just merely intrigued by the fact that Canon's been talking about Digic 6 and if they'll be able to use it on 7D2, but Dual Digic 5+ is highly likely.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: heptagon on March 28, 2013, 08:03:32 AM
If DR improvement is not mentioned it won't happen, so we shouldn't expect it or speculate about it. Same sensor as the 650D but smaller (more noisy) pixels, faster readout, better AF and Body. I'd call this camera a 6.5D.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: chauncey on March 28, 2013, 08:05:23 AM
Quote
Video ‘stills burst’ mode 30/60 fps
I'm not sure what this means...are they suggesting that it will capture 30 fps in the full 21 MP RAW mode?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bseitz234 on March 28, 2013, 08:10:24 AM
I do like the 21mp number better than 24 for APS-C... I personally have no problem with 18, but I'd be OK with 21. I'd certainly take 21+less noise over 24+more... I'm not trying to print 48" wide.

AF and most of those features sound to me like a 70D. And I think releasing this camera as the 70D would set up good things for a 7d2 to come later. In fact, depending on prices, I might consider this over a 7d2, which I'm sure would be a dream to use, but might be more camera than I actually need.

The spec that gives me pause is the 10fps. Now, if they can make the 7d2 do 12 (or, dare I suggest, 14), then 10 makes sense for a 70d. But then the 7d2 is encroaching on 1dx territory. It would make a lot more sense to me as a potential 70d if it had 7-8 fps, leaving double-digit fps for the professional cameras.

That said, if this is the 7d2, I wouldn't swear off it- I'd just wait till the prices came down to what I paid for my 7d, and pick one up then!
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: pedro on March 28, 2013, 08:14:24 AM
Well, I wonder how ISO 51k RAW will look like in APS-C. Or even at 102k. If sometimes my 5D3 gets to its limits @ 25k and 51k. Might a thouroughly new sensor tech make that possible...? :-\ With these specs a next update of a 5D could see native ISOs 100-51200 (L 50, H1 102400, 204800) and an 1Dx (H1 204800, H2 409600) !!!

But, let's keep in mind what NL also added:
"Not from a well known source, so I'm still looking for confirmation of different aspects."
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 28, 2013, 08:18:01 AM
If DR improvement is not mentioned it won't happen

This is just a quick CR1, probably leaked from a beta tester, doesn't mean much either way concerning dr/noise or af performance...

Quote
Video ‘stills burst’ mode 30/60 fps
I'm not sure what this means...are they suggesting that it will capture 30 fps in the full 21 MP RAW mode?

It means that the lv buffer is written as a hq-jpeg file as fast as possible (better quality than grabbing frames off a video). What resolution the file has depends on Canon's live view implementation, for example on the 6d it's 1816x1210 ... Magic Lantern can already save this, though only as one shot.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: traveller on March 28, 2013, 08:26:28 AM
I do like the 21mp number better than 24 for APS-C... I personally have no problem with 18, but I'd be OK with 21. I'd certainly take 21+less noise over 24+more... I'm not trying to print 48" wide.

Splitting hairs a bit aren't you? Personally, I'd like exactly 20.85MP ;)  The difference in file size between 21MP and 24MP is pretty small (though not the files themselves!).  It sounds like you are falling for the "fewer megapixels equals lower noise" myth. 

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Run14ers on March 28, 2013, 08:28:58 AM
I was sure hoping for more in the 7DMkII.  I especially was hoping for the 61-point AF...  I'm not sure any of the other features mentioned would convince me to upgrade from my 7D to a 7DMkII.  The AF is really what I need/want in an upgrade, so this could possibly "force" me to consider a 5DMkIII, though I really prefer the APS-C sensor for bird photography...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: East Wind Photography on March 28, 2013, 08:30:11 AM
In fact I wouldnt read much into it at all.  There are likely several different configurations running around.

If DR improvement is not mentioned it won't happen

This is just a quick CR1, probably leaked from a beta tester, doesn't mean much either way concerning dr/noise or af performance...

Quote
Video ‘stills burst’ mode 30/60 fps
I'm not sure what this means...are they suggesting that it will capture 30 fps in the full 21 MP RAW mode?

It means that the lv buffer is written as a hq-jpeg file as fast as possible (better quality than grabbing frames off a video). What resolution the file has depends on Canon's live view implementation, for example on the 6d it's 1816x1210 ... Magic Lantern can already save this, though only as one shot.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Malte_P on March 28, 2013, 08:30:33 AM
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.

10 FPS in the 70D .. no way.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bseitz234 on March 28, 2013, 08:32:12 AM
I do like the 21mp number better than 24 for APS-C... I personally have no problem with 18, but I'd be OK with 21. I'd certainly take 21+less noise over 24+more... I'm not trying to print 48" wide.

Splitting hairs a bit aren't you? Personally, I'd like exactly 20.85MP ;)  The difference in file size between 21MP and 24MP is pretty small (though not the files themselves!).  It sounds like you are falling for the "fewer megapixels equals lower noise" myth.

OK, I see your point, and it does sound like that. I'm more in the camp of "I highly doubt canon will give us 24 mp AND much-reduced noise, because that would be too much camera and they can milk us for more money by not putting them in the same camera".
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Rienzphotoz on March 28, 2013, 08:40:39 AM
I see a place for this in my camera bag ... I hope it has in-camera HDR, comes in very handy.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: meli on March 28, 2013, 08:41:53 AM
Well, I wonder how ISO 51k RAW will look like in APS-C. Or even at 102k. If sometimes my 5D3 gets to its limits @ 25k and 51k. Might a thouroughly new sensor tech make that possible...? :-\ With these specs a next update of a 5D could see native ISOs 100-51200 (L 50, H1 102400, 204800) and an 1Dx (H1 204800, H2 409600) !!!

But, let's keep in mind what NL also added:
"Not from a well known source, so I'm still looking for confirmation of different aspects."

Get a 7d file and push it to 25K iso. Thats the best case 56k scenario.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: TW on March 28, 2013, 08:57:08 AM
It seems to me that if you believe the 7DII sensor will be cut from the same wafer as the rumored "big megapixel" camera, then I'd say 21 MP is too low.

21x1.6=33.6, and I would be very surprised if the FF biggie came in at only 33.6 MP, less than the D800's 36 MP.

Of course this assumes the two camera sensors would be sharing the same sensor design, but that seems to be what a lot of people are thinking around here. So.... :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RGF on March 28, 2013, 09:02:08 AM
A couple areas that could be better on this camera - namely more AF points (of course quality/speed of AF is very important) and a second cf or sd slot.

10 FPS is a surprise, I had only expected 7 or 8 at 20+ mp.

ISO is as expected

Ergonomics remains to be seen

Overall mildly disappointed
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bseitz234 on March 28, 2013, 09:09:37 AM
It seems to me that if you believe the 7DII sensor will be cut from the same wafer as the rumored "big megapixel" camera, then I'd say 21 MP is too low.

21x1.6=33.6, and I would be very surprised if the FF biggie came in at only 33.6 MP, less than the D800's 36 MP.

Of course this assumes the two camera sensors would be sharing the same sensor design, but that seems to be what a lot of people are thinking around here. So.... :-\ :-\ :-\

1.6 is the crop factor, not the difference in area of the sensor. I think 1.6 comes from the diagonal, if I'm right?
Not feeling up to doing much math this morning, but that's what google is for, right? I've heard people say FF has a 1 1/3 stop advantage in light gathering, which I assume means more than twice the area (really 2 ^ 1.3333 times the area), which means 52.9mp.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: docsmith on March 28, 2013, 09:09:46 AM
These are not the specs that will really matter if the 7DII is to be anything but an incremental increase over the 7D.  Sensor data such as ISO performance, DR, color bit depth, etc or AF performance (focus to EV -3, etc) are what will truly be "game changing" specs for the 7DII.  Maybe a new more powerful battery to power the AF. 

I was expecting ~24 MP, but 21 MP is more than enough.  19 AF points does not sound like a "mini-1Dx"...so this could be one of the variations being tested with others more advanced.

But overall, this could be a very nice, perhaps incremental, upgrade or a true game changer...but it is more detailed specs that will really matter.


Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Sporgon on March 28, 2013, 09:12:57 AM
I wonder if the GPS and WiFi will result in a plastic top plate. If it doesn't it will prove the plastic top plate of the 6D was to differentiate it from the 5D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: traveller on March 28, 2013, 09:17:54 AM
It seems to me that if you believe the 7DII sensor will be cut from the same wafer as the rumored "big megapixel" camera, then I'd say 21 MP is too low.

21x1.6=33.6, and I would be very surprised if the FF biggie came in at only 33.6 MP, less than the D800's 36 MP.

Of course this assumes the two camera sensors would be sharing the same sensor design, but that seems to be what a lot of people are thinking around here. So.... :-\ :-\ :-\

Your calculation is wrong, you need to multiply 1.6 x 1.6 x 21 = 53.76MP. 
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Malte_P on March 28, 2013, 09:21:07 AM
It seems to me that if you believe the 7DII sensor will be cut from the same wafer as the rumored "big megapixel" camera, then I'd say 21 MP is too low.

21x1.6=33.6, and I would be very surprised if the FF biggie came in at only 33.6 MP, less than the D800's 36 MP.

Of course this assumes the two camera sensors would be sharing the same sensor design, but that seems to be what a lot of people are thinking around here. So.... :-\ :-\ :-\

your math is wrong.

you have to calculate the sensor AREA (APS-C vs. FF).
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RLPhoto on March 28, 2013, 09:36:48 AM
These specs are good. The 19 point AF in the 7D had no complaints from me, Infact that's still more cross type points than a d4! Everything is good here now just has to be around 1599$.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Haydn1971 on March 28, 2013, 09:39:01 AM
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.

Plus 1 too...   The 7DII needs to be more than this, fine with resolution stated, fine also with wifi and gps built in (easy extra sales point = higher price = higher profit margin = keep selling cameras) the AF needs to be top notch for crop at 40+ points, otherwise, the real game changer can only by the performance of the sensor which in my opinion, needs to outperform the lesser crop models, not recycle the same tech.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: setterguy on March 28, 2013, 09:41:06 AM
I am a 7D owner and love the camera, but feel a bit let down by the potential projections for the 7DII. This will probably lead me to make the commitment to a FF camera albeit it a significant cost jump for a serious amateur. I look forward to the developing story in the future.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: kubelik on March 28, 2013, 09:48:30 AM
this is like a 180-degree u-turn from the previous rumors about the 7D Mark II being a huge leap forward rather than an incremental step up. is this perhaps the 70D instead? that would be a whole lot more exciting.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: daniela on March 28, 2013, 10:21:45 AM
Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on March 28, 2013, 10:23:35 AM
It's a bit more than I would expect for a 70D and a bit less than I would expect for a 7D2. It's a test camera..... It could be either the 70D or 7D2, or it could be sub-systems from either.... or both.... or some from each.

It's a rumour about a test camera.... clues about the future, but nothing to get excited about.....
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: daniela on March 28, 2013, 10:33:09 AM
These spec are a bit "sub"...
Like a pushed-up 7100. Wait for the D400. It might be superior, if this 7D specs are true. And the D400 will be - again - cheaper....

Canon, hurry up and make it better!
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: East Wind Photography on March 28, 2013, 10:33:41 AM
I wouldnt be surprised to see it priced over the 5diii.  Canon has never let us down by pricing stuff at 2 year ago pricing.  Expect them to drain your wallet as much as they can before bringing the price down.

Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: daniela on March 28, 2013, 10:36:22 AM
I wouldnt be surprised to see it priced over the 5diii.  Canon has never let us down by pricing stuff at 2 year ago pricing.  Expect them to drain your wallet as much as they can before bringing the price down.

Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3

+1
It is a pity, but true
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: EchoLocation on March 28, 2013, 10:48:31 AM
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.

I agree, these would be pretty disappointing specifications for a 7D MkII, even if the new sensor was superb.  It would make more sense if this was a 70D prototype, allowing the 7D MkII to raise the bar. 

This said, it is possible that Canon and Nikon are "collaborating" to deny users a high performance APS-C body, thus forcing them to switch to full frame... Rumours and conspiricy theories go hand in hand!  ;)
Outside of the 10fps, i totally agree. this camera sounds good, but not great. if people waited 4 years for this, i don't think they'd be happy, but not  too thrilled. I think these specs make a great 70D, except toss in about 5-6fps instead.
If this is the 7D, it would have to be $1400 bucks to compete with the D7100, which I think has great specs, scores good reviews, and is priced aggressively.
I'd say Canon would be better tossing in a 5DIIIish AF, 2 card slots, and 10fps at a price of $1999. That would be a sexy APS-C camera that would excite all camera fans, not just die hard Canon fanboys.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: ishdakuteb on March 28, 2013, 11:08:07 AM
Holly smoke!!!...

5D Mark III ISO:  100-25600 (L: 50, H1 51200, H2 102400)
   Note:  For [Highlight tone priority], the settable ISO speed range will be 200-25600

7D Mark II ISO:  The same?

Overall, I personally think that given specs are pretty good.  The only thing that I do not like is one CF card.  However, points that I am starting loving this camera are
1. FPS
2. ISO (Not sure how can they handle noise level at such high ISO?  But it is pretty impressive with 2 stops better ISO)

Not sure if anyone need this function, but I think that it would be kinda handy if Canon can provide a function that help me to perform exposure lock forever until I cancel it (Like give me a option to set a toggle button between lock and set.  Current exposure lock function will timeout in certain amount of time...).  This helps in acting quick when using AV/TV mode with selecting focus points instead of select focus and then re-compose...

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Woody on March 28, 2013, 11:15:45 AM
These rumored specs don't impress me much
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 28, 2013, 11:18:36 AM
If DR improvement is not mentioned it won't happen, so we shouldn't expect it or speculate about it.

Since when has DR been mentioned in a spec list?   ::)

Holly smoke!!!...

5D Mark III ISO:  100-25600 (L: 50, H1 51200, H2 102400)
   Note:  For [Highlight tone priority], the settable ISO speed range will be 200-25600

7D Mark II ISO:  The same?

Overall, I personally think that given specs are pretty good.  The only thing that I do not like is one CF card.  However, points that I am starting loving this camera are
1. FPS
2. ISO (Not sure how can they handle noise level at such high ISO?  But it is pretty impressive with 2 stops better ISO)

Important to keep in mind that just because a setting is available, doesn't mean it's usable.

The T4i has ISO 12800 as the highest non-expanded ISO setting.  Here are the TDP examples from the T4i and 5DIII at ISO 12800.  IMO the 5DIII shot is usable with some clean up, the T4i shot is not (assuming you'd want to retain any sharpness after the detail-crushing NR that would be needed). 
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: jthomson on March 28, 2013, 11:19:08 AM
Can't really tell anything from this spec.
How the sensor handles noise will be the decidng factor for me.
If it is basically the same as the current 7D with usable ISO 1600 and 3200 then I will get it.
They should also probably tweak the AF system to make it as accurate as those  on the 5D3, 1DX. Nineteen cross points is fine they just need to be accurate points.

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on March 28, 2013, 11:25:40 AM
The "stills burst mode" is the most interesting thing here for me. The only question is how long the burst lasts.

The Nikon V1($300) can shoot 4K raw for a second, which makes for some pretty awesome video clips. If they could extend it to 10 seconds (on 7D2), it would be sic.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: hmmm on March 28, 2013, 11:26:36 AM
Sensor size FF = 24x36 = 864sqmm
Sensor size Canon aps-c= 22.2x14.8 = 329sqmm

So a 21 mp APS-c sensor would ramp up to 21*(864/329)= 55 mp.

The ratio of the areas is 2.63.

==>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Albi86 on March 28, 2013, 11:58:07 AM
It looks like a very nice camera. However, it doesn't really come out as the "mini 1Dx" it was supposed to be.

I agree with whoever said that, except for the 10 fps, they look more like 70D-like specs.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: jcollett on March 28, 2013, 12:06:15 PM
Sensor size FF = 24x36 = 864sqmm
Sensor size Canon aps-c= 22.2x14.8 = 329sqmm

So a 21 mp APS-c sensor would ramp up to 21*(864/329)= 55 mp.

The ratio of the areas is 2.63.

==>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format)

+1  Seems not too many people appreciate  the large areal difference between APS-C and FF.  Thanks for pointing out that FF has 263% the area of Canon crop sensor.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: coreyhkh on March 28, 2013, 12:07:28 PM
This just sounds like a sensor test body, not the full camera, using the current af from 7d and just used to test the sensor.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: rumorzmonger on March 28, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
"Viewfinder LCD Higher Resolution Than 7D"

That and the 19-point AF give this away as being purely fictional...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on March 28, 2013, 12:15:56 PM
A test camera that could be the EOS 7D Mark II has been specced at Northlight.

Finally a plausible, realistic rumor !!! Sounds very good.

With these specs, the 7DII price should stay the same.
Hopefully the sensor is good.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on March 28, 2013, 12:23:32 PM
However, it doesn't really come out as the "mini 1Dx" it was supposed to be.

Aah. The disappointment that the 7DII is not a 1DX at a ... 3x lower price.
Righteous.  8)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on March 28, 2013, 12:24:45 PM
These specs are good. The 19 point AF in the 7D had no complaints from me, Infact that's still more cross type points than a d4! Everything is good here now just has to be around 1599$.

My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neech7 on March 28, 2013, 12:24:56 PM
Sensor size FF = 24x36 = 864sqmm
Sensor size Canon aps-c= 22.2x14.8 = 329sqmm

So a 21 mp APS-c sensor would ramp up to 21*(864/329)= 55 mp.

The ratio of the areas is 2.63.

==>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format)



How about keeping it simple and call it 1.6 x 1.6 = 2.56?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neech7 on March 28, 2013, 12:27:36 PM

I agree with whoever said that, except for the 10 fps, they look more like 70D-like specs.

I doubt we'll see the 7D AF in the xxD anytime soon.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: ishdakuteb on March 28, 2013, 12:29:02 PM
This just sounds like a sensor test body, not the full camera, using the current af from 7d and just used to test the sensor.

official integration test methods and approval integration test results are based/required to test on the whole system.  i personally do not think think that they can test it like that unless canon is not going to release this camera soon... then they can test it that way...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: x-vision on March 28, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
this is like a 180-degree u-turn from the previous rumors about the 7D Mark II being a huge leap forward rather than an incremental step up

Yes ... because the previous so called rumors were in fact wishlists.
1DX for cheap, basically. That's what these rumors were - and people got fired up.
Yeah, keep dreaming for that 1DX-like camera for $2500. LOL

I'm so excited to finally hear a realistic rumor.
Remember: once the leaks start, we are getting close to announcement.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: ishdakuteb on March 28, 2013, 12:36:37 PM

I agree with whoever said that, except for the 10 fps, they look more like 70D-like specs.

I doubt we'll see the 7D AF in the xxD anytime soon.

let me guess... we will see canon t5i in 70d body with some additional software feature like AFMA, etc...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: tomscott on March 28, 2013, 12:45:05 PM
It amazing how emotional people get with rumoured specs. Makes me laugh. Chill its a test camera and a rumour.

I think everything about this sounds like a 70D. But no chance it will get 10fps that would give the 7DMKII no scope at all. Even if a 7DMKII got 14fps which I also doubt the difference between 10-14 isnt that great for a proposed price increase. 8fps is overkill for most.

I would expect the 70D to have 7-8fps and the 7DMKII 10-12.

I hope the new APS-C sensors are good. Loved everything about the 7D apart form the IQ was very disappointed. Even if you look on DXO compare it to a 40D there is barely any difference.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: seattlebirdman on March 28, 2013, 01:06:01 PM
This just sounds like a sensor test body, not the full camera, using the current af from 7d and just used to test the sensor.

+1

Totally agree here. If you produce a brand new sensor and want to get going on testing performance, why not just go to your existing parts supplies and use this sensor to get going on test as soon as possible while working on other items like a new focusing system for and APC body separately.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RGomezPhotos on March 28, 2013, 01:10:41 PM
This does sound as the 70D to me... then I would be happy.

I agree, these would be pretty disappointing specifications for a 7D MkII, even if the new sensor was superb.  It would make more sense if this was a 70D prototype, allowing the 7D MkII to raise the bar. 

This said, it is possible that Canon and Nikon are "collaborating" to deny users a high performance APS-C body, thus forcing them to switch to full frame... Rumours and conspiricy theories go hand in hand!  ;)
Outside of the 10fps, i totally agree. this camera sounds good, but not great. if people waited 4 years for this, i don't think they'd be happy, but not  too thrilled. I think these specs make a great 70D, except toss in about 5-6fps instead.
If this is the 7D, it would have to be $1400 bucks to compete with the D7100, which I think has great specs, scores good reviews, and is priced aggressively.
I'd say Canon would be better tossing in a 5DIIIish AF, 2 card slots, and 10fps at a price of $1999. That would be a sexy APS-C camera that would excite all camera fans, not just die hard Canon fanboys.

I agree with you on this. This would be a hot seller...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bseitz234 on March 28, 2013, 01:14:08 PM
I doubt we'll see the 7D AF in the xxD anytime soon.

I don't see why not... It's a very good system, but they could absolutely improve it for the 7D2. I think putting 7D AF in a 70D would be a huge step up from the 60D AF, and putting the 1Dx/5D3 AF in the 7D2- even if they remove some points so it's 48 (or whatever) instead of 61- would also be a huge step up. Granted, we'd be charged accordingly, but it seems to fit the bill for who these cameras are marketed to- enthusiast (xxD) and pro APS-C (7D)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RS2021 on March 28, 2013, 01:30:35 PM
It is after all a rumor... from a rather untested source from NL's own phrasing.

But what I like about this listing is that the expectations are more toned down (barring the fps) and more likely to match the market pricepoint such a body will have to come in at ...a modest improvement on 7D is what one should expect.

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

I know... you are shocked...disappointed...dismayed beacuse Canon isn't making a $2000 body with 92fps and 3 card slots and 75MPS... cry me a river.  ::)



Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: seamonster on March 28, 2013, 01:31:27 PM
Canon made a great move developing the 7D AF system, not just for the sake of the 7D itself but for lower end bodies years and years down the line. When rebels get to the point where their AF "seems" lacking compared to whatever Nikon is putting into their entry level stuff, just slap the 7D AF in it. Of course the system itself will probably be like 10 years old by that point but will average joe consumer even notice?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on March 28, 2013, 01:39:08 PM
Some of this corroborates what we've heard before. For example, this does have new video features.  "stills burst". If it is like the v1, than that could mean 30fps of 4K, 14bit raw.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bseitz234 on March 28, 2013, 02:06:33 PM

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: ddashti on March 28, 2013, 02:16:04 PM
How much of a disadvantage would the 7D Mark II be at if it, indeed, had 19 AF points instead of 61?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on March 28, 2013, 02:22:14 PM

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.
Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?
An APS-C shutter is smaller and lighter than a FF shutter.... and you have less distance to move it. Shutter mechanics is NOT the limiting factor.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RiceCanon on March 28, 2013, 02:23:03 PM
I currently own a 7D and at the top of my wishlist for the 7D Mk II is improved performance in low light and high ISO.  I don't own the fastest lenses Canon has to offer so that improvement alone would be greatly appreciated! 
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: unfocused on March 28, 2013, 02:27:15 PM
I love this forum. It is so predictable.

Put out any set of specifications and the mob will immediately zero in on the weakest aspect and suddenly it becomes the Most-Important-Thing-in-the-World.

Frankly, as a 7D owner, and keeping in mind that this is CR1, I find this pretty encouraging.

Modest, incremental improvements to the new model. What do people expect? The 7D is a great camera and when does any company completely reinvent a successful product? (See all the many interchangeable "generations" of  iPhones)

Most 7D owners are hoping for a slight improvement in the sensor. We don't know anything about this sensor, but I find the idea of a small increase in mp count encouraging as I like the way Canon has been emphasizing quality over sheer megapixels in their full frame releases.

The construction of the 7D is already pretty solid, but better weathersealing is always a good thing in my book.

Keeping a CF card slot is also a positive to me. Dual card slots? Nice, but not a deal breaker and since this is CR1 who knows what that really means. After all, technically, the 5DIII has a single CF card slot too.

What's with all the angst over the 19pt autofocus? Again, we have no idea what that really means. 5DII owners used to whine about how they wanted the 7D autofocus system. Suddenly it's terrible? The existing 19 points are fine, I just wish the sampling was a little more accurate. As Neuro has often pointed out, one of the problems with autofocus points is that they actually sample an area larger than indicated in the viewfinder. I'd take 19 very accurate autofocus points over more points any day of the week.

Someone assumed the inclusion of GPS and WiFi means the end of the pop-up flash. Perhaps. I'm not surprised. Canon is moving away from the infrared controller system to its new RC strobes. Sadly, I never expected the next generation to offer on-board IR control. Besides, if you ever tried to use the IR control with the popup flash you know that it is frustratingly prone to overheating. Plus, there's that annoying design flaw that causes the pop-up mechanism to lock down.

All in all, I'd say that if this CR1 rumor turns out to be accurate, I won't be either surprised or disappointed.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RS2021 on March 28, 2013, 02:33:46 PM

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?

It is not about the value, wheather they already have the technology, or how easy it is to just put it in... it is about how a company "grades" and markets its products at different price-points and "ascribes" a persumed value.... note, I purposefully did not say "actual" value. Some of persumed value has to do with the inherent value of the product, but what differentiates a successful company from a mediocre one is how they mold and stratify and add to this inherent value.

While it is true that no amount of smart marketing or PR will be able to market a grandma as a supermodel...ie, she has a certain street value that is inherent...what a good marketing team can do is take a young, average looking girl, and depending on their ability, get her enough clients. While a much better looking model, with a different marketing team, is sitting at home near the phone waiting for a call that ain't coming.

As unfair as it sounds, fps is fps...weather it is on a APS-C or FF...logical reasonings have little effect on the basic marketing priorities. How the fps are stratified between their 1 series, mid series, and lower-end models will be a an easy call for Canon.   

So they will continue to follow their marketing strategy that is working based on revenues...not what is logical. 
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: dstppy on March 28, 2013, 02:53:48 PM
I love this forum. It is so predictable.

Put out any set of specifications and the mob will immediately zero in on the weakest aspect and suddenly it becomes the Most-Important-Thing-in-the-World.

Frankly, as a 7D owner, and keeping in mind that this is CR1, I find this pretty encouraging.

Modest, incremental improvements to the new model. What do people expect? The 7D is a great camera and when does any company completely reinvent a successful product? (See all the many interchangeable "generations" of  iPhones)

Most 7D owners are hoping for a slight improvement in the sensor. We don't know anything about this sensor, but I find the idea of a small increase in mp count encouraging as I like the way Canon has been emphasizing quality over sheer megapixels in their full frame releases.

The construction of the 7D is already pretty solid, but better weathersealing is always a good thing in my book.

Keeping a CF card slot is also a positive to me. Dual card slots? Nice, but not a deal breaker and since this is CR1 who knows what that really means. After all, technically, the 5DIII has a single CF card slot too.

What's with all the angst over the 19pt autofocus? Again, we have no idea what that really means. 5DII owners used to whine about how they wanted the 7D autofocus system. Suddenly it's terrible? The existing 19 points are fine, I just wish the sampling was a little more accurate. As Neuro has often pointed out, one of the problems with autofocus points is that they actually sample an area larger than indicated in the viewfinder. I'd take 19 very accurate autofocus points over more points any day of the week.

Someone assumed the inclusion of GPS and WiFi means the end of the pop-up flash. Perhaps. I'm not surprised. Canon is moving away from the infrared controller system to its new RC strobes. Sadly, I never expected the next generation to offer on-board IR control. Besides, if you ever tried to use the IR control with the popup flash you know that it is frustratingly prone to overheating. Plus, there's that annoying design flaw that causes the pop-up mechanism to lock down.

All in all, I'd say that if this CR1 rumor turns out to be accurate, I won't be either surprised or disappointed.

You, sir, are a communist.  I'm selling all my gear and switching to Nikon.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bseitz234 on March 28, 2013, 03:24:42 PM

Regarding fps:

10fps on 7D2 or for that matter 70D is just plain silly...it ain't gonna happen.

I lean toward Canon keeping the same 8 fps, may be 1 more up to 9fps to throw the fanboys a bone. Canon will be thinking about their bottom line, not the unrealistic "needs" of fanboys who want the whole shop for little money.

Something tells me the shutter mechanism is not the most expensive part to produce. If it was, that would be a different story. But they've already done the R&D: the 1dx shutter mechanism can move a full-frame mirror at 12fps, rated for 400,000 cycles. You really think an APS-C mirror, at 10fps, with a 150,000 cycle rating is that unrealistic? Sounds like a piece of cake to me... I'm not saying they will put 10fps in it, just that I don't see why it's so far fetched. Especially when you say they'd do 9 to "throw the fanboys a bone". If it's that easy to add 1 fps, why not two?

It is not about the value, wheather they already have the technology, or how easy it is to just put it in... it is about how a company "grades" and markets its products at different price-points and "ascribes" a persumed value.... note, I purposefully did not say "actual" value. Some of persumed value has to do with the inherent value of the product, but what differentiates a successful company from a mediocre one is how they mold and stratify and add to this inherent value.

While it is true that no amount of smart marketing or PR will be able to market a grandma as a supermodel...ie, she has a certain street value that is inherent...what a good marketing team can do is take a young, average looking girl, and depending on their ability, get her enough clients. While a much better looking model, with a different marketing team, is sitting at home near the phone waiting for a call that ain't coming.

As unfair as it sounds, fps is fps...weather it is on a APS-C or FF...logical reasonings have little effect on the basic marketing priorities. How the fps are stratified between their 1 series, mid series, and lower-end models will be a an easy call for Canon.   

So they will continue to follow their marketing strategy that is working based on revenues...not what is logical.

so, in a nutshell, you think they'd do 9 but not 10, just because double-digits are reserved for the 1 series?

I really do hate marketing teams...

An APS-C shutter is smaller and lighter than a FF shutter.... and you have less distance to move it. Shutter mechanics is NOT the limiting factor.
This was the basis of my point- the discussion now seems to be product differentiation vs. halo-APS-C-cam, which was my misunderstanding of what RS2021 was trying to say.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on March 28, 2013, 03:41:35 PM
As a 60D owner, looking to upgrade to a 7D2, the specs so far seem reasonable and I will probably get one. There are tons of small details that are not out yet that will influence the decision, but things look promising.

Will it talk to wireless flashes?
Is the wifi just for downloads, or does it allow camera control?
Is there a touchscreen?
Is there HDR?
What are the video modes?
Is there a headset jack?
How well does the live view focus work?
How well does the regular focus work?
Does it have low light focus like the 6D?
How many points work at F2.8.... do any work at F8?

So many questions.... such nebulous rumours...... I think I'll go take pictures of birds at the feeder and dream of better AF...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Peerke on March 28, 2013, 04:15:19 PM
Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3

Price over 5D3, Whaaaaaahaaaahahahahahaa.  ;D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 28, 2013, 04:17:28 PM
As a 60D owner, looking to upgrade to a 7D2, the specs so far seem reasonable and I will probably get one.

"Reasonable" depends on the price, and knowing Canon ... no, as I 60d owner I'm not tempted to pay €1500+ for this, I'd rather get a ff 6d that uses the full potential of my ef lenses - and when the 7d2 is released the 6d will be at or below €1500.

And even if sounding like a broken record: DIGIC6 won't run Magic Lantern for some time (usual guess is 1 year+), so that alone excludes an early upgrade for me.

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 28, 2013, 05:37:22 PM
Hmmh, hopefully CR1 for a reason. With the talk from Canon about moving into new territory and much upped price and so on hmm. No mention of new process sensor even for this? Perhaps the same old 7D AF??? How can the premiere APS-C beast be saddled with 7D AF??
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 28, 2013, 05:41:18 PM
These specs are good. The 19 point AF in the 7D had no complaints from me, Infact that's still more cross type points than a d4! Everything is good here now just has to be around 1599$.

Yeah but compare the precision of 7D center point to that in the 5D3, it's a totally different ball game. Have you ever shot at f/2.8 and gotten literally 100 shots in a row, under indoor lighting, in focus with a 7D?? And compare them for soccer. The 7D is barely better than a 50D for soccer. The single points are too small and the assists on it are too large. It does AF super well for surfing though, every last bit as good as the 5D3 for that.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 28, 2013, 05:45:32 PM
this is like a 180-degree u-turn from the previous rumors about the 7D Mark II being a huge leap forward rather than an incremental step up

Yes ... because the previous so called rumors were in fact wishlists.
1DX for cheap, basically. That's what these rumors were - and people got fired up.
Yeah, keep dreaming for that 1DX-like camera for $2500. LOL

I'm so excited to finally hear a realistic rumor.
Remember: once the leaks start, we are getting close to announcement.

Well there is competition though, if the D400 is like a mini 1DX then it may be Canon is dreaming.... dreaming that they had fired their marketing department and put the engineers back in more control.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 28, 2013, 05:46:58 PM
It amazing how emotional people get with rumoured specs. Makes me laugh. Chill its a test camera and a rumour.



But what do you think the whole point of this forum is??? It's to go crazy and shoot bull over camera specs and rumors. You are laughing at the very playful fun and point of it all!  ;D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Gary Irwin on March 28, 2013, 06:24:10 PM
Yup, those specs look almost as good as Nikon's D400, which will be announced in August and ship in September.  ;D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RLPhoto on March 28, 2013, 06:52:53 PM
These specs are good. The 19 point AF in the 7D had no complaints from me, Infact that's still more cross type points than a d4! Everything is good here now just has to be around 1599$.

Yeah but compare the precision of 7D center point to that in the 5D3, it's a totally different ball game. Have you ever shot at f/2.8 and gotten literally 100 shots in a row, under indoor lighting, in focus with a 7D?? And compare them for soccer. The 7D is barely better than a 50D for soccer. The single points are too small and the assists on it are too large. It does AF super well for surfing though, every last bit as good as the 5D3 for that.

I shot all my primes wide open and got tack sharp images in many situations with my 7D. I can't complain at all, it's AF system fulfilled all my needs and did so elegantly. It's not as good as the mk3 but the 7D AF was plenty for my needs. I think the center point on the 7D is a double cross type just like the MK3. Not sure but I think I read it somewhere.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 28, 2013, 07:08:39 PM
I think the center point on the 7D is a double cross type just like the MK3. Not sure but I think I read it somewhere.

It does.  But the 5DIII's AF does have better consistency, particularly with the most recent lenses.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 28, 2013, 07:25:48 PM
I shot all my primes wide open and got tack sharp images in many situations with my 7D. I can't complain at all, it's AF system fulfilled all my needs and did so elegantly. It's not as good as the mk3 but the 7D AF was plenty for my needs. I think the center point on the 7D is a double cross type just like the MK3. Not sure but I think I read it somewhere.

It is double cross too but there is a lot more to a point than whether it is single, double or double cross. 5D3 non-cross points sure lock a lot better and faster than the non-cross in the 5D2 and the center double on the 5D3 has ultra-precision mode when used with some lenses and that really makes a difference.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: garyknrd on March 28, 2013, 08:24:50 PM
I shot all my primes wide open and got tack sharp images in many situations with my 7D. I can't complain at all, it's AF system fulfilled all my needs and did so elegantly. It's not as good as the mk3 but the 7D AF was plenty for my needs. I think the center point on the 7D is a double cross type just like the MK3. Not sure but I think I read it somewhere.

It is double cross too but there is a lot more to a point than whether it is single, double or double cross. 5D3 non-cross points sure lock a lot better and faster than the non-cross in the 5D2 and the center double on the 5D3 has ultra-precision mode when used with some lenses and that really makes a difference.

+ 1000  I have stopped using the 7D because of the AF error. Compared to the other cameras.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: douglas459 on March 28, 2013, 08:25:26 PM
These specs are closer to the Nikon 7100, a $1200 camera body. I would suggest that these specs are probably for the 70D, not the 7DMK2. They will never be able to charge a premium for a 7DMK2 with these specs. Nikon has upped the expectations of what APS bodies should be and Canon will have to respond. If Canon stays with these specs Nikon will release a better APS-C camera and Canon will once more be well behind the curve.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RLPhoto on March 28, 2013, 08:34:12 PM
I shot all my primes wide open and got tack sharp images in many situations with my 7D. I can't complain at all, it's AF system fulfilled all my needs and did so elegantly. It's not as good as the mk3 but the 7D AF was plenty for my needs. I think the center point on the 7D is a double cross type just like the MK3. Not sure but I think I read it somewhere.

It is double cross too but there is a lot more to a point than whether it is single, double or double cross. 5D3 non-cross points sure lock a lot better and faster than the non-cross in the 5D2 and the center double on the 5D3 has ultra-precision mode when used with some lenses and that really makes a difference.

All I'm saying is that the 7D AF is still very good. It's the lowest benchmark I hold for a semi professional canon AF system, which basically means that I will not shoot on a semi-pro camera with an AF system less than that.

I never had issues with any points on my 7D, they were all pretty consistent and delivered the goods. Moving up to the mk3 was easy as it was like shooting a better FF version of the 7D AF. If they implement the same AF in the 7Dii, I won't be disappointed but if they improve it, all is well.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RGF on March 28, 2013, 08:34:28 PM
Looking at the Canon line-up, the 7D will be the top of the APS-C line up.  I would hope that Canon would take the opportunity to build a great camera, something significantly ahead of the current model and the 60D and where they will take the 70D.

The big question is how close to the 1Dx will Canon take the 7D M2 both in features and price.  After all the 5D M3 started in the $3,000s - could the 7D M2 with great features be priced there?

Would you pay $3500 (or so) for a mini-1Dx in APS-C format?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: sharky620ti on March 28, 2013, 08:46:44 PM

Would you pay $3500 (or so) for a mini-1Dx in APS-C format?

Probably, if its got amazing low light performance and doesn't weigh as much as a 1DX...

... and if it can't meet those requirements, I'll just buy a 1DX and try to live with not having the extra reach of a 1.6 crop.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Act444 on March 28, 2013, 08:58:43 PM
It's just a test camera, a rumored spec list, etc. Wouldn't put much (if any) stock in it. That said, I admit to not being too excited. It comes down to what the price will be in the end.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: PureShot on March 28, 2013, 09:06:06 PM
Canon 7D MK II need to beat Sony and Nikon and 5D MK III, don't forget when Canon release  the 7D  is a small revolution performance vs price  many people prefer 7D and sell 5D MK II.
The 7D MK II must have better sport performance than 5D MK III
When the 7D MK ii release, the price for other camera drop
i am not exciting about this specification. i hope more.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: PhotographerJim on March 28, 2013, 09:22:29 PM
This sounds like enough of an upgrade for me to get one. I'm excited to see what happens.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on March 28, 2013, 09:39:58 PM
I shot all my primes wide open and got tack sharp images in many situations with my 7D. I can't complain at all, it's AF system fulfilled all my needs and did so elegantly. It's not as good as the mk3 but the 7D AF was plenty for my needs. I think the center point on the 7D is a double cross type just like the MK3. Not sure but I think I read it somewhere.

It is double cross too but there is a lot more to a point than whether it is single, double or double cross. 5D3 non-cross points sure lock a lot better and faster than the non-cross in the 5D2 and the center double on the 5D3 has ultra-precision mode when used with some lenses and that really makes a difference.

All I'm saying is that the 7D AF is still very good. It's the lowest benchmark I hold for a semi professional canon AF system, which basically means that I will not shoot on a semi-pro camera with an AF system less than that.

I never had issues with any points on my 7D, they were all pretty consistent and delivered the goods. Moving up to the mk3 was easy as it was like shooting a better FF version of the 7D AF. If they implement the same AF in the 7Dii, I won't be disappointed but if they improve it, all is well.

I still think it would be a grave mistake to make their action/reach/speed demon/reach camera not have top AF. It's 2013 and a camera that can only very modestly focus soccer better than a 50D doesn't seem like a smart move to me. Then again they made the 5D do ai servo better than the xxD series and the xxD series AF outer points better which never really made the most sense.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: rpt on March 28, 2013, 09:51:10 PM
It's just a test camera, a rumored spec list, etc. Wouldn't put much (if any) stock in it. That said, I admit to not being too excited. It comes down to what the price will be in the end.
+1
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Act444 on March 28, 2013, 10:22:29 PM
Actually, if the 70D or 7DII (whatever) had those same specs, but the sensor had a 2/3 - 1 stop improvement in high ISO performance, that's more than adequate for me.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: RGF on March 28, 2013, 10:52:09 PM

Would you pay $3500 (or so) for a mini-1Dx in APS-C format?

Probably, if its got amazing low light performance and doesn't weigh as much as a 1DX...

... and if it can't meet those requirements, I'll just buy a 1DX and try to live with not having the extra reach of a 1.6 crop.

The trade off for the 1.6 crop and 20+ MP is low light performance.  The area of each light collecting photo site is 35% of the area on the 1Dx - here is my math.  Correct me if I made an error.  1.6 crop on means that a full frame camera would be 2.56 times the sensor size so the 7D M2 has the same pixel density as a 50 MP full frame camera.  18 MP / 50MP is around 35%..

You will be loose several stops of s/n - so high ISO will necesarrily be weaker.  However AF does not need to be.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: EchoLocation on March 28, 2013, 11:58:25 PM
Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3

Price over 5D3, Whaaaaaahaaaahahahahahaa.  ;D
for the price to be around the 5DIII, i'd expect sensor performance similar to that of the 1DX, 5DIIIish AF, similar or better weather sealing to the 7D, maybe one card slot to differentiate/cripple it a bit, and 8FPS.
With the specs listed in this rumor i'd say the price all depends on the sensor. If it has greatly improved sensor performance then Canon might ask $1999(and that would be too much) or if it has the current APS-C sensor tech i'd say they'd price it at $1500(and that would be too much.)
right now, Nikon has the D5200 and D7100 which outside of the FPS are both comparable to this camera and both are priced around $1000ish.
These specs are closer to the Nikon 7100, a $1200 camera body. I would suggest that these specs are probably for the 70D, not the 7DMK2. They will never be able to charge a premium for a 7DMK2 with these specs. Nikon has upped the expectations of what APS bodies should be and Canon will have to respond. If Canon stays with these specs Nikon will release a better APS-C camera and Canon will once more be well behind the curve.
This is what I was thinking. If this camera is released with these specs and the current sensor performance I don't see any way this camera could cost more than $1600 given the D7100's specs. And at those prices i'd probably recommend the D7100 unless Canon has some sensor magic up their sleeves.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: nicku on March 29, 2013, 02:10:26 AM
Specifications:

    21MP APS C
 Fair enough for a APS-C sensor
    ISO 100-25600 (L: 50, H1 51200, H2 102400)
 this is a reasonable ISO for a 1DX intended backup camera
    10fps
 reasonable
    Video ‘stills burst’ mode 30/60 fps
I believe the strong point of 7D2 will be video.... if will be capable to shoot 1080P at 60fps and 720P at 90 or 120fps, than this feature will be a real improvement
    Full HD video with manual control
expected....
    Single CF Card Slot
I believe this will be the biggest disappointment of the rumored camera
    19 AF Points all Cross
 :( maybe will be a faster AF ( due to the DIGIC 5 processors... I personally prefer a strong 19 AF point instead of  a crippled 51 AF.
    On chip phase detect pixels for liveview and AF tracking
expected feature
    100% Viewfinder
Normal in those days
    Viewfinder LCD Higher Resolution Than 7D
expected feature
    3.2″ LCD
expected
    GPS, WiFi
good for distance remote control when shooting wildlife
    Alloy body with better weather sealing over 7D
again...expected feature

The only big question is: how much the IQ will be improved ? i mean high ISO capability and sharpness ( mushy images).
I also believe that with those specs Canon will keep the price under $2000.. maybe at 1899 or 1999 at launch.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Rienzphotoz on March 29, 2013, 02:12:15 AM
Interresting, in Japenese forums he specs are handeld a little bit better. Price over the 5D3

Price over 5D3, Whaaaaaahaaaahahahahahaa.  ;D
for the price to be around the 5DIII, i'd expect sensor performance similar to that of the 1DX, 5DIIIish AF, similar or better weather sealing to the 7D, maybe one card slot to differentiate/cripple it a bit, and 8FPS.
With the specs listed in this rumor i'd say the price all depends on the sensor. If it has greatly improved sensor performance then Canon might ask $1999(and that would be too much) or if it has the current APS-C sensor tech i'd say they'd price it at $1500(and that would be too much.)
right now, Nikon has the D5200 and D7100 which outside of the FPS are both comparable to this camera and both are priced around $1000ish.
These specs are closer to the Nikon 7100, a $1200 camera body. I would suggest that these specs are probably for the 70D, not the 7DMK2. They will never be able to charge a premium for a 7DMK2 with these specs. Nikon has upped the expectations of what APS bodies should be and Canon will have to respond. If Canon stays with these specs Nikon will release a better APS-C camera and Canon will once more be well behind the curve.
This is what I was thinking. If this camera is released with these specs and the current sensor performance I don't see any way this camera could cost more than $1600 given the D7100's specs. And at those prices i'd probably recommend the D7100 unless Canon has some sensor magic up their sleeves.
+1 ... totally agree
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: firebreatherboy on March 29, 2013, 04:41:05 AM
if this is a 70D, then it's great.
But, for 7D, i'd expect atleast 19selectable AF points and a ten more assist ones.
And, built in wifi and GPS is going to be having a plastic top shell. So, that too sounds like 70D.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 29, 2013, 05:11:37 AM
And at those prices i'd probably recommend the D7100 unless Canon has some sensor magic up their sleeves.

... to *new* users, but those will probably go for a sub-€1000 camera (xxxd/xxd) while the existing users will "upgrade" ...

I don't see any way this camera could cost more than $1600 given the D7100's specs.

.. but given the market saturaration with lenses/flashes/other single-brand equipment Canon knows existing users seldom switch brands - you loose money selling gear and you have to get used to a new usability.

So how much would you pay to be able to stick to your old system? €500? €1000? That's what Canon can add on top of the camera price as seen on the 5d3 - and then there's the early adopter's fee of €200-€500. A "reasonable" price will only be achieved after about 2 years after rtm.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: EchoLocation on March 29, 2013, 05:17:10 AM
And at those prices i'd probably recommend the D7100 unless Canon has some sensor magic up their sleeves.

... to *new* users, but those will probably go for a sub-€1000 camera (xxxd/xxd) while the existing users will "upgrade" ...

I don't see any way this camera could cost more than $1600 given the D7100's specs.

.. but given the market saturaration with lenses/flashes/other single-brand equipment Canon knows existing users seldom switch brands - you loose money selling gear and you have to get used to a new usability.

So how much would you pay to be able to stick to your old system? €500? €1000? That's what Canon can add on top of the camera price as seen on the 5d3 - and then there's the early adopter's fee of €200-€500. A "reasonable" price will only be achieved after about 2 years after rtm.
with the price of the updated Canon glass and the premium prices of new bodies compared to their competition, I wouldn't pay anything "stick to my old system."
In fact, I was pretty perturbed at getting screwed on both sides of the equation, both lenses and bodies. So perturbed that I switched to a D700, which is just insanely awesome at $1500 bucks, as well as the 24-70G, which is also unbelievably nice, and which i bought for 700 bucks less than the new Canon version.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 29, 2013, 05:25:40 AM
In fact, I was pretty perturbed at getting screwed on both sides of the equation, both lenses and bodies. So perturbed that I switched to a D700, which is just insanely awesome at $1500 bucks, as well as the 24-70G, which is also unbelievably nice, and which i bought for 700 bucks less than the new Canon version.

Doh - I hope Canon gets the message. If it wasn't for Magic Lantern (I like to program my dslr myself and rely on many features of it) I'd go the same way.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Albi86 on March 29, 2013, 06:34:45 AM
And at those prices i'd probably recommend the D7100 unless Canon has some sensor magic up their sleeves.

... to *new* users, but those will probably go for a sub-€1000 camera (xxxd/xxd) while the existing users will "upgrade" ...

I don't see any way this camera could cost more than $1600 given the D7100's specs.

.. but given the market saturaration with lenses/flashes/other single-brand equipment Canon knows existing users seldom switch brands - you loose money selling gear and you have to get used to a new usability.

So how much would you pay to be able to stick to your old system? €500? €1000? That's what Canon can add on top of the camera price as seen on the 5d3 - and then there's the early adopter's fee of €200-€500. A "reasonable" price will only be achieved after about 2 years after rtm.
with the price of the updated Canon glass and the premium prices of new bodies compared to their competition, I wouldn't pay anything "stick to my old system."
In fact, I was pretty perturbed at getting screwed on both sides of the equation, both lenses and bodies. So perturbed that I switched to a D700, which is just insanely awesome at $1500 bucks, as well as the 24-70G, which is also unbelievably nice, and which i bought for 700 bucks less than the new Canon version.

My thoughts exactly. Unless you have something like 5-10000$ invested in Canon glass, when you factor everything in, switching is not a big loss money-wise.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 29, 2013, 07:14:26 AM
My thoughts exactly.

Question is: Do thoughts (and forum posts) translate into action eventually?

Unless you have something like 5-10000$ invested in Canon glass, when you factor everything in, switching is not a big loss money-wise.

How big "big" is depends on the net gain/loss after buying new equipment - and I know my equipment hasn't got pristine looks because I'm outdoors a lot and horses and such are always interested in inspecting my camera up close :-)

*And* then there's the psychological factor (I'm with Canon since the mid-90s) *and* the Canon/Nikon usability differences *and* the time/hassle to actually switch (time is money). So imho the threshold is very high, that's why Canon gets away with being current Canon.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Albi86 on March 29, 2013, 07:48:12 AM
My thoughts exactly.

Question is: Do thoughts (and forum posts) translate into action eventually?

Unless you have something like 5-10000$ invested in Canon glass, when you factor everything in, switching is not a big loss money-wise.

How big "big" is depends on the net gain/loss after buying new equipment - and I know my equipment hasn't got pristine looks because I'm outdoors a lot and horses and such are always interested in inspecting my camera up close :-)

*And* then there's the psychological factor (I'm with Canon since the mid-90s) *and* the Canon/Nikon usability differences *and* the time/hassle to actually switch (time is money). So imho the threshold is very high, that's why Canon gets away with being current Canon.

In my case yes, they translated into action :)

Yes, the interface is different, menu layout is different etc. I also had the same feelings, as for everything in life one always has doubts leaving the known for the unknown. However, I'm not a pro, so I'm not losing money while I get used to the new interface - which btw only takes about one week between reading the manual and actually figuring out the instructions practically. I seriously miss certain things from Canon, but then you see how photos look like and you just forget about everything else. I think I got the best camera/lenses in their price range with the D600, 85/1.8G and Sigma 35/1.4. I feel again like I am the limiting factor.

The fact is, as long as people keep buying Canon stuff, Canon will be encouraged to go down this way. In one sense I did a favor to myself and everyone by not buying any product from Canon's recent offering.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 29, 2013, 08:10:38 AM
I seriously miss certain things from Canon

That's interesting - what do you miss that Nikon/d600 doesn't have? Or is it just some hardware that hasn't got a 1:1 Nikon equivalent?

The fact is, as long as people keep buying Canon stuff, Canon will be encouraged to go down this way. In one sense I did a favor to myself and everyone by not buying any product from Canon's recent offering.

+1 - thanks, since I want to keep on using Magic Lantern I hope Canon gets a grip either feature or price-wise. I like my current equipment, but the outlook seems not so bright (mediocre 6d, expensive lenses, isolated rt flash system).

It's just the latest non-innovation/high-price policy that annoys me as I'm not mr. Rich, but at least it's somehow comforting I'm not alone with this opinion because two years ago anyone saying anything against Canon's policy would have been flamed down or penalized with negative Karma :-)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: iP337 on March 29, 2013, 08:19:23 AM
Specifications:

    21MP APS C
 Fair enough for a APS-C sensor
 Nooooo! I want a 22.3MP sensor so that it can pixel bind to 1080p instead of line-skipping so we can reduce morie like in the 5D3, why would they push it so close but not give us the clean 5D3 image.  I'd much rather prefer another 18Mp sensor with better image quality but if Canon is worried about marketing another 18mp sensor then fine go to 20 but why push it any further then that?!
 
    19 AF Points all Cross
 :( maybe will be a faster AF ( due to the DIGIC 5 processors... I personally prefer a strong 19 AF point instead of  a crippled 51 AF.
 Agreed, I kinda prefer the 19pt because it has a better spread of cross-type points, squeezing a "full frame" AF sensor into APS-C might not work as well

    On chip phase detect pixels for liveview and AF tracking
expected feature
Oh, well that answers my "Why are they still line-skipping?!" question, but again why push it so close to 22.3 needlessly?  ...(this better not be a 7D).

    GPS, WiFi
good for distance remote control when shooting wildlife
I think this is an 8D!   

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Grummbeerbauer on March 29, 2013, 08:27:14 AM
I agree with what many already posted, that would be disappointing for a 7DII -- no dual card slots, no better AF (I have a 7D, and I am not satisfied with its AF for fast moving action, but that could also be a lack of skill on my side  ;)).

At the same time, it is way overspeced for a 70D (10fps, weather sealing etc.)

So if this really to be the 7DII, the only reason that could make me buy it is that is has a significant improvement in sensor performance (RAW!, not JPEG... I do not need better in-camera NR, LR will always be better at that), and that it stays in a reasonable price range (i.e., a good deal below the 6D, 1500€ at most).

But neither do I think that Canon made some miraculous leap in sensor technology, that somehow didn't make it in their recent FF offerings, but now happens to be available for some APS-C camera, nor do I believe that Canon will suddenly return to reason in terms of their pricing policy.

One line somewhat caught my eye, though:

"Viewfinder LCD Higher Resolution Than 7D"
The 7D's viewfinder LCD consists of discretely etched, "shaped" elements. The grid lines, AF points, digits etc. are not created of pixels, but are more comparable to the display of, e.g., an LCD wrist watch. So a statement like "higher resolution" IMO makes little sense - so little, that it could easily discredit this entire CR1 rumor to be utter BS.
The only reason (aside from a 7DII getting a EVF instead of an OVF) that this could make some sense is that they now have a pixel matrix in some areas of the viewfinder to be more flexible with regards to the info they display.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Grummbeerbauer on March 29, 2013, 08:30:04 AM
"Viewfinder LCD Higher Resolution Than 7D"

That and the 19-point AF give this away as being purely fictional...
Absolutely agree, that line caught my eye and it simply makes no sense for that type of "fixed-shape", non-pixel-based LCDs.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Grummbeerbauer on March 29, 2013, 08:39:13 AM
I hope the new APS-C sensors are good. Loved everything about the 7D apart form the IQ was very disappointed. Even if you look on DXO compare it to a 40D there is barely any difference.
I am personally not even that happy with the 7D's AF (after all the praise it received, I had just expected more precision and better tracking), but I fully agree that the high ISO performance of the sensor was not too hot even 3+ years ago. ISO 1600 is barely acceptable, ISO 3200 for emergencies at best.
With the 5DIII being to expensive for an amateur, the 6D being underwhelming, I was really hoping for the 7DII although I had preferred to go FF, but at the added cost of replacing at least 3 lenses, I guess I can live with APS-C.
So if the 7DII turns out to be about that, I might finally sell my two Canon bodies, 6 Canon lenses, 3 third party lenses, and accessories and get a D600 with 24-70 (the Tamron looks great, BTW), 70-200 2.8, a third party macro and WA lens, and take the rest of the revenue and put it into some other hobby.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 29, 2013, 09:51:05 AM
"Viewfinder LCD Higher Resolution Than 7D"

That and the 19-point AF give this away as being purely fictional...
Absolutely agree, that line caught my eye and it simply makes no sense for that type of "fixed-shape", non-pixel-based LCDs.

Worth noting that this could simply be a translation/communication error.  If you take out the word "viewfinder "before LCD, it makes sense.

As for the 19 point AF, as we all know, Canon likes to use the same AF system in several revisions of a particular camera series, and then hand it down to a lower series.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Albi86 on March 29, 2013, 10:09:35 AM
I seriously miss certain things from Canon

That's interesting - what do you miss that Nikon/d600 doesn't have? Or is it just some hardware that hasn't got a 1:1 Nikon equivalent?



Some things aren't easily replaced 1:1. Ergonomic, certain lenses, etc. one always have to compromise in one way or another. I just decided that IQ and value were my priorities. To the other things one just gets used eventually, or you just get there in some other way. Most of it is just flat out habit.

I also liked my canon gear, and I would be happy to use canon again. But not if it requires paying more to get less than competing products.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Larry on March 29, 2013, 01:37:34 PM
The term "test camera" was used. ???

What are the chances that this is equivalent to the commonly used engineering term "test bed"?

In this case the example camera might be only a combination of features being tested, some of which may may not appear in any one(or more) future camera(s), if the testing provides satisfactory results.

Those results might indicate needed "tweaking" before the a feature is incorporated into any camera that is to be actually marketed.

In other words, this "test" camera may not be intended, in current form, to be the actual 7DII, or 70D,
...or anything else BUT a "test" platform. ;)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: kimvette on March 29, 2013, 02:46:53 PM

* AF tracking in live view? Come on, that has to be a joke - unless this a completely other design the af pixels on the sensor only tell the camera which way to contrast af.

FTFA: "On chip phase detect pixels for liveview and AF tracking"

Of course it is a complete redesign; this is phase-detection AF (how the lens diverges the light, and fast because the camera "knows" which way to focus depending on how the light waves have diverged) rather than contrast detection (which is slow because complex algorithms have to figure out when the image is sharpest and the camera can't know which way the light has diverged). In order to integrate phase detection, unless they're being really clever with the use of photosites' data and taking the color shift of the bayer filter into account, the sensor will have specialized "pixels" to dedicate to focus. It would be similar to the normal phase detect AF sensor already in every Canon DSLR, except miniaturized and integrated into the image sensor.  Based on TFA, we can assume that they are integrating miniaturized phase-detect pixels directly into the sensor.

This will be a huge win for videographers, especially with the release of more and more STM lenses. The 7D can AF during video recording, but thanks to contrast detect it is slow since the camera has to "guess" which way to move the lens, and how far it should move. With phase detect AF (assuming sufficient light for phase detection to work) it knows pretty precisely which direction the lens needs to move, and by how much.

Quote
* GPS/WiFi - so we can expect the camera to miss the external flash (that's where the antennas are) and you have to buy a €300 or €500 (with af assist) piece of equipment just to control off-camera flash just like the 6d? That's probably also the reason why there still is no built-in rt controller even in these 7d2 specs... thanks. Canon.

WiFi?  Meh. See: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/26/003218/wi-fi-enabled-digital-cameras-easily-exploitable (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/26/003218/wi-fi-enabled-digital-cameras-easily-exploitable).

21MP APS-C? The 5D3 at ISO 102K is pretty noisy. I can just imagine what this will be like at that ISO.

If DR improvement is not mentioned it won't happen, so we shouldn't expect it or speculate about it. Same sensor as the 650D but smaller (more noisy) pixels, faster readout, better AF and Body. I'd call this camera a 6.5D.

SRSLY?

It's not like they take the exact design they had before, shrink it down, and then add a few pixels around the edges to increase the resolution. IF that was how they made higher resolution sensors, you'd be right. Compare today's 18MP sensor to the D2000/DCS520's 2.0MP sensor at ISO 12,800.   Oh right, today's 18MP sensor is more usable at its expanded ISO than yesterday's 2.0MP sensor is at ISO 800.


Plus 1 too...   The 7DII needs to be more than this, fine with resolution stated, fine also with wifi and gps built in (easy extra sales point = higher price = higher profit margin = keep selling cameras) the AF needs to be top notch for crop at 40+ points, otherwise, the real game changer can only by the performance of the sensor which in my opinion, needs to outperform the lesser crop models, not recycle the same tech.

Are you willing to pay the price of the old APS-H model for the 7D? I ask, because that is the level of functionality that many in here seem to be demanding.

These spec are a bit "sub"...

Like a pushed-up 7100. [/quote]

AF point count? Mexapixels? How about the fact that the 7D dedicates a processor to AF, and that it has ALL cross-type points with a high-precision center point, which is better than Nikon's system? What about durability and weather sealing? Tendency toward excessively high Moire (no low-pass filter)?

What about ergonomics? Still is lacking on Nikon.

What about the fact that when the megapixel race was going on, people were slamming both companies for increasing resolution?

The truth is, people love to whine regardless of whether Canon moves to increase or decrease resolution, increase AF point count or decrease it, and hell, some people even complain that they don't want to pay for video features or for fast burst mode. For those folk, rather than buying the more appropriate Rebel or "super rebel" XXD, they whine and moan about the pro features the 7D has.  The thing is, the pro features that make up an XD model isn't rooted in megapixel count, whether or not it includes wifi, or number of AF points. It comes down to image quality, ergonomics, durability, and a mix of all of the features offered by that particular camera body.

Quote
Wait for the D400. It might be superior, if this 7D specs are true. And the D400 will be - again - cheaper....

Canon, hurry up and make it better!

Eventually Nikon will come out with something better (then certain people will threaten to jump ship to Nikon), then Canon will leapfrog them again, and people will threaten to leave Nikon for Canon. Those people blow lots of money on gear just for bragging rights, but don't even know why the gear is designed the way it is. That's fine and all (your early-adopter gadget freak mentality in essence subsidizes my gear purchase thanks to the  economies of scale!! ;)) but unfortunately that vocal few is the people who flood forums here and dpreview with all of the negativity.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: wookiee2cu on March 29, 2013, 05:06:27 PM
If those do end up being the specs I wouldn't be too surprised.  If they did add the dual slots and 61pt af then the only reason to get the 5DMIII would be for full frame, I think they want a little more seperation than that between the lines.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Drum on March 29, 2013, 05:13:26 PM
Since the 650/700D have had the same AF system that the 60D has it is more likely that the 70D will have a better system. The most plausible AF system for the 70D (with the least R&D for Canon) is the 19 pt out of the current 7D. To make the next jump therefore, the 7Dmk2 would have to have a better AF than the 70D which would suggest more than 19pts. Again to save R&D the 61pt would be handy!!!
   IMHO I don't think a major jump in ISO or noise control will be in the upcoming generation of camera, yes the settings may be there but if they have the NR to be useful is another matter.
 
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bdunbar79 on March 29, 2013, 05:19:15 PM
Canon has nothing to respond to Nikon in terms of sensors today.
And about  AF you're wrong, 1DX  for example has a greater speed but the accuracy is lower than D4 in a series of shots/time.

It helps in other words not to have a higher speed / second if the outcome is not  good as with the Nikon.

Ergonomics is a highly subjective view of equipments

So if I begin shooting with a D4 instead of a 1DX, for each basketball game instead of getting 85 really good shots, will I get 95?  110?  1000?

Post something useful please.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bdunbar79 on March 29, 2013, 05:24:28 PM
The usefull to know is that you get more keepers with D4.

I know.  How many more?  What percent?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bdunbar79 on March 29, 2013, 05:37:08 PM
So they use a rapidly focusing lens for Nikon (85 f/1.4), and a slow focusing lens for Canon (85 f/1.2L II).

...........Why do I even bother asking these questions?  Why do I do this to myself?

ankorwatt, thanks for the article, I'm going to read it again.  Good info.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 29, 2013, 05:42:16 PM
The Nikon D4 delivered 12 of 12 images in-focus. 100%.
The Canon 1Dx gave us 9 images in focus, 1 on the nose, and two on the ears.

So, where’s the confusion? Well, when we describe what is “in-focus”, it looks like the Canon 1Dx has a different definition of the term. Those 9 images that the 1Dx delivered in-focus absolutely destroyed the Nikon D4 in terms of detail and accuracy. In fact, that one that hit the nose seemed to be a bit more like what we saw from the D4 in every shot.

Speed is not all

Definitely not cut and dried.  Do you want 9/12 shots that deliver much better detail and accuracy, or 12/12 'okay' shots that are similar in level of detail to one of the slightly OOF 3/12 shots?

Given that choice, I'd take the 9/12 @ 12 fps from the 1D X that 'absolutely destroy the Nikon D4 in terms of detail and accuracy'.

Was that your point?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bdunbar79 on March 29, 2013, 05:43:53 PM
The Nikon D4 delivered 12 of 12 images in-focus. 100%.
The Canon 1Dx gave us 9 images in focus, 1 on the nose, and two on the ears.

So, where’s the confusion? Well, when we describe what is “in-focus”, it looks like the Canon 1Dx has a different definition of the term. Those 9 images that the 1Dx delivered in-focus absolutely destroyed the Nikon D4 in terms of detail and accuracy. In fact, that one that hit the nose seemed to be a bit more like what we saw from the D4 in every shot.

Speed is not all

Definitely not cut and dried.  Do you want 9/12 shots that deliver much better detail and accuracy, or 12/12 'okay' shots that are similar in level of detail to one of the slightly OOF 3/12 shots?

Given that choice, I'd take the 9/12 @ 12 fps from the 1D X that 'absolutely destroy the Nikon D4 in terms of detail and accuracy'.

Was that your point?

This neuro, is why I'm taking handfuls of antacid tablets right now...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 29, 2013, 06:08:57 PM
This neuro, is why I'm taking handfuls of antacid tablets right now...

If you let the trolls give you indigestion, you're going to need something stronger than an antacid tablet around here.  :P
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Jan van Holten on March 29, 2013, 07:00:10 PM
Canon has nothing to respond to Nikon in terms of sensors today.
And about  AF you're wrong, 1DX  for example has a greater speed but the accuracy is lower than D4 in a series of shots/time.

It helps in other words not to have a higher speed / second if the outcome is not  good as with the Nikon.

Ergonomics is a highly subjective view of equipments

Are you trying to compensate for something????
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on March 29, 2013, 07:16:02 PM
There seems to be a lack of knowledge about the size of the individual pixels and resolution/noise .
Take for example D800 and if the image file is presented in the same size as the 5dmk3 , the D800 has better resolution up to 12800iso. Resolution , details is whats matter.

Ummmmm......
We are talking about an APSC test camera. What do full frame nikons and canons have to do with this topic? It's a bit like saying I'm going to buy a 7d2 because canon photo printers are superior......
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: bseitz234 on March 29, 2013, 08:01:48 PM
Are you trying to compensate for something????
sounds like buyer's remorse to me...  ::)

This neuro, is why I'm taking handfuls of antacid tablets right now...

If you let the trolls give you indigestion, you're going to need something stronger than an antacid tablet around here.  :P

Dare I ask your medication of choice? As a neuroanatomist you must have access to something stronger... ;-)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: sagittariansrock on March 29, 2013, 09:05:51 PM
The Nikon D4 delivered 12 of 12 images in-focus. 100%.
The Canon 1Dx gave us 9 images in focus, 1 on the nose, and two on the ears.

So, where’s the confusion? Well, when we describe what is “in-focus”, it looks like the Canon 1Dx has a different definition of the term. Those 9 images that the 1Dx delivered in-focus absolutely destroyed the Nikon D4 in terms of detail and accuracy. In fact, that one that hit the nose seemed to be a bit more like what we saw from the D4 in every shot.

Speed is not all

Definitely not cut and dried.  Do you want 9/12 shots that deliver much better detail and accuracy, or 12/12 'okay' shots that are similar in level of detail to one of the slightly OOF 3/12 shots?

Given that choice, I'd take the 9/12 @ 12 fps from the 1D X that 'absolutely destroy the Nikon D4 in terms of detail and accuracy'.

Was that your point?

The point is that we  are discussing the AF reliability. 12of 12 or 9 of 12.

If I were you, I'd read more carefully before quoting. The lines in red sort of crush your argument... it seems to say D4 "reliable" is about as good as 1Dx "unreliable"  ::)
In any case- wasn't this a 7DII thread! Why are people who haven't even used both (or probably either) of D4 and 1Dx comparing them on a 7DII thread!!!
I am more than happy with the specs. As long as the sensor is about 2 stops higher in sensitivity- give me everything else same as the 7D, and I'd still buy it. Call it 70D, 7DII, 100k, "the eye of the tiger", I don't care- just get it out into the stores...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on March 29, 2013, 09:21:48 PM
In any case- wasn't this a 7DII thread! Why are people who haven't even used both (or probably either) of D4 and 1Dx comparing them on a 7DII thread!!!
then we are discussing something else, resolution and the lenses.

If you are discussing something else, please start a new thread and have a proper discussion....
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 29, 2013, 09:32:26 PM
then we are discussing something else, resolution and the lenses.

So, the lens has nothing to do with AF performance?  Really?!?

Regardless, you are the one talking about resolution and lenses.  I was talking about pictures, you know, those things that are the actual, relevant result of a shutter button press.  In the review you quoted, the scenario was the top pro body with the top 85mm prime from each manufacturer. The verdict was 12/12 shots from Nikon that were about as good as a slightly OOF shot from the Canon, vs. 9/12 far better shots from the Canon.

We can dissect and discuss individual components of each imaging system, and argue their relative merits in isolation, and sometimes that's useful. But ultimately, we're talking about imaging systems that take pictures. If you'd prefer 100% mediocre images to 75% outstanding images, that's certainly your choice.  It wouldn't be mine.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: timmy_650 on March 29, 2013, 09:49:17 PM
When I watched that video. They still liked canon pictures over the Nikon with the nose and ears.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Larry on March 30, 2013, 12:33:03 AM

But ultimately, we're talking about imaging systems that take pictures. If you'd prefer 100% mediocre images to 75% outstanding images, that's certainly your choice.  It wouldn't be mine.

Gotta agree. Lets do numbers:

Would you rate an "eyes out of focus" portrait 800 out of 1000? I don't think I would rate it that high, but anyway-

Nikon gets 12 of those, for a score of 8400.

Canon gets 3 (2400), plus 9 perfect shots (9000) for a score of 11,400.

And the (Canon) crowd goes wild!  :o
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: greger on March 30, 2013, 05:05:16 AM
Very Interesting! I've just read 10 pages about a maybe 7Dll test camera or maybe the 70D as some people have posted
as their response. I think if this does make it to Market it will be a nice camera. I should have read posts on technique
and not this. ;D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: mkabi on March 30, 2013, 11:30:55 AM
Lets be real you all...

Lets look at price points.

If this camera is better than 6D, it will cost more than the 6D.

If this camera is better than the 5D Mk3, then it will cost more than the 5D Mk3.

By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?

Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver? Losing potential customers of FF?

Y'all want amazing specs but don't want to spend an arm and a leg to get it, otherwise you would have gotten a FF camera in the first place.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: M.ST on March 30, 2013, 11:52:27 AM
The mentioned specs hit to 100 percent one prototype that is out for testing.

But there are two different prototypes out for testing.

The AF system is totally new and amazing compared to the 6D AF system.

Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on March 30, 2013, 12:01:30 PM
By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?

Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver? Losing potential customers of FF?

When new technology is introduced, it is seldom a case of introducing it at the top of the line.... Canon is a conservative company and one of the halmarks of it's top cameras is stable, tried, and true.

When new sensor technology and/or focus systems are introduced, it will probably be much lower in the lineup... the 7D2 is a perfect candidate for this with it's position in the lineup and the timing. It will be what it will be.... the top APS-C camera. It does not compete with FF cameras (much). People who want FF want FF and very few are going to be tempted by APS-C. Even if it comes out with fantastic specs that beat the 5D3 ( rumour was ALMOST as good), what this will tell all the FF users is that the next upgrade of a FF camera will be substantially ahead of what they have now, and most will probably start saving thier pennies for the 5D4 or 6D2
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: mkabi on March 30, 2013, 12:48:08 PM
By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?

Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver? Losing potential customers of FF?

When new technology is introduced, it is seldom a case of introducing it at the top of the line.... Canon is a conservative company and one of the halmarks of it's top cameras is stable, tried, and true.

When new sensor technology and/or focus systems are introduced, it will probably be much lower in the lineup... the 7D2 is a perfect candidate for this with it's position in the lineup and the timing. It will be what it will be.... the top APS-C camera. It does not compete with FF cameras (much). People who want FF want FF and very few are going to be tempted by APS-C. Even if it comes out with fantastic specs that beat the 5D3 ( rumour was ALMOST as good), what this will tell all the FF users is that the next upgrade of a FF camera will be substantially ahead of what they have now, and most will probably start saving thier pennies for the 5D4 or 6D2

But thats the thing... if you look at Canon (EOS) DSLR time line, chances are there isn't going to be a new 5D or 6D for another 3 to 4 years. Huge leaps and bounds over current models, will only render the current models obsolete.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on March 30, 2013, 01:19:59 PM
By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?

Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver? Losing potential customers of FF?

When new technology is introduced, it is seldom a case of introducing it at the top of the line.... Canon is a conservative company and one of the halmarks of it's top cameras is stable, tried, and true.

When new sensor technology and/or focus systems are introduced, it will probably be much lower in the lineup... the 7D2 is a perfect candidate for this with it's position in the lineup and the timing. It will be what it will be.... the top APS-C camera. It does not compete with FF cameras (much). People who want FF want FF and very few are going to be tempted by APS-C. Even if it comes out with fantastic specs that beat the 5D3 ( rumour was ALMOST as good), what this will tell all the FF users is that the next upgrade of a FF camera will be substantially ahead of what they have now, and most will probably start saving thier pennies for the 5D4 or 6D2

But thats the thing... if you look at Canon (EOS) DSLR time line, chances are there isn't going to be a new 5D or 6D for another 3 to 4 years. Huge leaps and bounds over current models, will only render the current models obsolete.
But if they are introducing some new magic technology, odds are it is already planned for what model get replaced when. It takes several years to introduce a new model and there has to be a plan. 2012 saw lots of FF activity. 2013 seems to be the year of 5 or more APS-C cameras ( T5i, 70D, 7D2, EOS-SL1, EOS-M whatever it's called).... I'll bet 2013 sees a lot of FF activity. If they can introduce/upgrade 5 APS-C cameras in a year, they can surely do 3 FF cameras
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: zim on March 30, 2013, 03:48:04 PM
The AF system is totally new and amazing compared to the 6D AF system.

No S____ Sherlock  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Krob78 on March 30, 2013, 06:38:11 PM
By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?

Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver? Losing potential customers of FF?

When new technology is introduced, it is seldom a case of introducing it at the top of the line.... Canon is a conservative company and one of the halmarks of it's top cameras is stable, tried, and true.

When new sensor technology and/or focus systems are introduced, it will probably be much lower in the lineup... the 7D2 is a perfect candidate for this with it's position in the lineup and the timing. It will be what it will be.... the top APS-C camera. It does not compete with FF cameras (much). People who want FF want FF and very few are going to be tempted by APS-C. Even if it comes out with fantastic specs that beat the 5D3 ( rumour was ALMOST as good), what this will tell all the FF users is that the next upgrade of a FF camera will be substantially ahead of what they have now, and most will probably start saving thier pennies for the 5D4 or 6D2
+1  Exactly!  the 7d and 7d2 have nothing to do with the 5d3, it's not comparing apples to apples... I agree, they attract whole different groups... in my case it's hard, I have both...  but I have each of them for different reasons.  The big items for me on the 5d3, I can't get on the 7d or most likely the 7d2 either... FF.

That which I love about my 7d can't be found on my 5d3!  fps, for instance... Anyway, I hope it's not a ho-hum upgrade!  ;)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Krob78 on March 30, 2013, 06:39:29 PM
Yawn... Sigh... I just want to see some CR2 rumors about the 7D Mark II  :P
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: mkabi on March 30, 2013, 06:41:36 PM
By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?

Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver? Losing potential customers of FF?

When new technology is introduced, it is seldom a case of introducing it at the top of the line.... Canon is a conservative company and one of the halmarks of it's top cameras is stable, tried, and true.

When new sensor technology and/or focus systems are introduced, it will probably be much lower in the lineup... the 7D2 is a perfect candidate for this with it's position in the lineup and the timing. It will be what it will be.... the top APS-C camera. It does not compete with FF cameras (much). People who want FF want FF and very few are going to be tempted by APS-C. Even if it comes out with fantastic specs that beat the 5D3 ( rumour was ALMOST as good), what this will tell all the FF users is that the next upgrade of a FF camera will be substantially ahead of what they have now, and most will probably start saving thier pennies for the 5D4 or 6D2

But thats the thing... if you look at Canon (EOS) DSLR time line, chances are there isn't going to be a new 5D or 6D for another 3 to 4 years. Huge leaps and bounds over current models, will only render the current models obsolete.
But if they are introducing some new magic technology, odds are it is already planned for what model get replaced when. It takes several years to introduce a new model and there has to be a plan. 2012 saw lots of FF activity. 2013 seems to be the year of 5 or more APS-C cameras ( T5i, 70D, 7D2, EOS-SL1, EOS-M whatever it's called).... I'll bet 2013 sees a lot of FF activity. If they can introduce/upgrade 5 APS-C cameras in a year, they can surely do 3 FF cameras

You said it yourself bros.... the top-of-the-line  stuff are tried, tested and true...
I'm pretty sure, they don't release FF cameras so often, because they don't want their customers to feel.... "awww man I wish I had waited a year to buy this camera versus the last one..."
Moreover, they know that not everyone has $3k to throw up on cameras...
But they know most people can afford to cough over close to 500-1k.... even yearly to change up their APS-C camera.... And it makes sense... if  you're patient... you can save $4000 over 4 years and buy a proper FF camera. Instead of changing up your camera on a yearly basis.

I don't know when we became a society of spenders... always wanting the newest and coolest gadgets.
If you're a true photographer or videographer, you don't depend on technology to create your work of art... you can use any technology and create a masterpiece.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: sagittariansrock on March 30, 2013, 08:26:59 PM
If this camera is better than the 5D Mk3, then it will cost more than the 5D Mk3.
By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?
Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver? Losing potential customers of FF?

If Canon EVER came up with a sensor that allowed an APS-C to be a HUGE LEAP from their newest FF, then they would shut down everything else and start building new FF cameras, buyers remorse of 1Dx and 5DIII owners be damned. And Canon engineers would be booking flights to Stockholm, and Nikon and Leica will focus solely on microscopy and I'd be selling everything to buy Canon shares!
None of the above is happening right now, so relax. Hopefully the new sensor will be sufficient to improve APS-C performance by 1-2 stops. That's all. FF will still rule IQ, sensitivity, etc. and no one who can afford an equivalent FF setup (that means appropriate super-telephotos for those who will immediately start clamoring about the APS-C "reach") will buy APS-C.

Canon may attempt to impress  us with some new solutions, but as long as they stay behind with theirs old sensor technology it is mostly cosmetic solutions compared to Sony/Aptina/Panasonic and others

I think the thread started with rumors about a new sensor technology in the 7DII. Either you believe it (and stop complaining about old sensor technology) or don't (since it's only a rumor) and move on with life (outside a rumor website).
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on March 30, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
Canon may attempt to impress  us with some new solutions, but as long as they stay behind with theirs old sensor technology it is mostly cosmetic solutions compared to Sony/Aptina/Panasonic and others

Indeed. That's what Canon does - puts lipstick on pigs.  How do they manage to sell so many pigs?

Could it be Canon doesn't sell just pigs, but rather luaus with all the trimmings, and their luaus are just all-around better...bigger spread, tastier poi, and more skilled fire dancers?

No matter how much you only care about the pig, it's about more than just the pig.   ::)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on March 31, 2013, 06:23:24 PM
Canon made a big splash by making the 5DII better than it's price(even the 1Ds III couldn't shoot video like the ol' 5D2).  But Canon probably felt that it hurt sales of the flagship in the long run.
 
It's very possible that they try to play the same trick with the 7DII(as they did for the 5D2).  I think it will be the new "best value" model.  And I think the WOW factor will be bigger than it was for the 5D3.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on March 31, 2013, 06:57:45 PM
I think it will be the new "best value" model.  And I think the WOW factor will be bigger than it was for the 5D3.

I think currently "best value" and "wow factor" are mutually exclusive with Canon, it's either one or the other, but certainly not both at the same time. But still it's not impossible for Canon to learn from the 5d3 price or the 6d features, it's just that there is not the slightest indication yet.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: wickidwombat on April 01, 2013, 10:54:39 PM
if this is the first introduction of the new sensor tech it will be interesting, hopefully it is a large step up
21MP is good equates to nearly 54mp FF.

I wonder if it will close the IQ gap with current gen FF,
could be interesting

assuming it is an entirely new tech sensor... there is ALOT riding on this :D
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Krob78 on April 02, 2013, 11:21:15 AM
Canon made a big splash by making the 5DII better than it's price(even the 1Ds III couldn't shoot video like the ol' 5D2).  But Canon probably felt that it hurt sales of the flagship in the long run.
 
It's very possible that they try to play the same trick with the 7DII(as they did for the 5D2).  I think it will be the new "best value" model.  And I think the WOW factor will be bigger than it was for the 5D3.
That would be nice! 8)
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Krob78 on April 02, 2013, 01:02:33 PM
Canon may attempt to impress  us with some new solutions, but as long as they stay behind with theirs old sensor technology it is mostly cosmetic solutions compared to Sony/Aptina/Panasonic and others

Indeed. That's what Canon does - puts lipstick on pigs.  How do they manage to sell so many pigs?

Could it be Canon doesn't sell just pigs, but rather luaus with all the trimmings, and their luaus are just all-around better...bigger spread, tastier poi, and more skilled fire dancers?

No matter how much you only care about the pig, it's about more than just the pig.   ::)
Exactly, it's about the lipstick too!
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: MARKOE PHOTOE on April 03, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
*********.com has noted these spex for the new 7D II:

24.1 megapixel APS-C sensor
New 61 point AutoFocus system
Larger 3.2” screen with 100% coverage
Dual DIGIC V processors
10 fps continuous shooting
Dual Memory Card slots
ISO and build quality close to the 5D Mark III
GPS and Wi-Fi built in
Around US$2,200


While I'd much prefer dual memory slots and ISO 'close to' the 5D III, I realize this too is only a rumor.  Take it for what its worth. I would consider replacing my 1D4 for the new 7D II if proven to have better IQ. The frame rates are comparable and I've got plenty of batteries that would fit the 7D....if they use the same as the previous 7D.

Your thoughts?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Marsu42 on April 03, 2013, 03:15:58 PM
Your thoughts?

If there aren't any hidden pitfalls then it's as I'd expect the 7d2 to be - very good, but also very expensive (it's a crop sensor, after all).

But everything depends on the (new?) sensor because what's 10fps good for if everything >iso800 looks crappy @100% crop as on the current 18mp sensor? If the sensor doesn't cut it, all that is left to the 5d3 is the "built-in" 1.6 tc and some hundred bucks.
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: sfunglee on April 03, 2013, 10:25:01 PM
Is this a true specs of 7DMk II, I'll kept mine till 7D Mk III
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: aznable on April 04, 2013, 06:47:26 AM
*********.com has noted these spex for the new 7D II:
[cut]
While I'd much prefer dual memory slots and ISO 'close to' the 5D III, I realize this too is only a rumor.  Take it for what its worth. I would consider replacing my 1D4 for the new 7D II if proven to have better IQ. The frame rates are comparable and I've got plenty of batteries that would fit the 7D....if they use the same as the previous 7D.

Your thoughts?

looks like an old rumor... the iso performance close to mk3 with that density it's like a miracle...cant believe it
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: mcr1photo on April 04, 2013, 07:01:47 PM
-new to the forum- Aside from the fact that the sensor is cropped, will the image technology be the same as the 5D mark III?
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Krob78 on April 04, 2013, 07:53:36 PM
If this camera is better than the 5D Mk3, then it will cost more than the 5D Mk3.
By the way, why would Canon create a camera thats a huge leap from the 5D Mk3, when the 5D Mk3 was released last year?
Also, back to pricing... why would they create a cheaper APS-C camera with better specs than the 5D Mk3? If you were a business man... and this is your business, would you think that this is a smart maneuver?  Losing potential customers of FF

If Canon EVER came up with a sensor that allowed an APS-C to be a HUGE LEAP from their newest FF, then they would shut down everything else and start building new FF cameras, buyers remorse of 1Dx and 5DIII owners be damned. And Canon engineers would be booking flights to Stockholm, and Nikon and Leica will focus solely on microscopy and I'd be selling everything to buy Canon shares!
None of the above is happening right now, so relax. Hopefully the new sensor will be sufficient to improve APS-C performance by 1-2 stops. That's all. FF will still rule IQ, sensitivity, etc. and no one who can afford an equivalent FF setup (that means appropriate super-telephotos for those who will immediately start clamoring about the APS-C "reach") will buy APS-C.

Canon may attempt to impress  us with some new solutions, but as long as they stay behind with theirs old sensor technology it is mostly cosmetic solutions compared to Sony/Aptina/Panasonic and others

I think the thread started with rumors about a new sensor technology in the 7DII. Either you believe it (and stop complaining about old sensor technology) or don't (since it's only a rumor) and move on with life (outside a rumor website).
Regardless of how good it may be, I just can't see them losing all kinds of FF customers over it.  FF is a whole different animal and quite likely, always will be...  A lot of us own FF & Crop and will likely continue to own both...
Title: Re: EOS 7D Mark II Test Camera [CR1]
Post by: Don Haines on April 04, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
-new to the forum- Aside from the fact that the sensor is cropped, will the image technology be the same as the 5D mark III?
The expectation is that it will be new technology and newer/more powerful processing power, and that it may have equivalent ISO capability of the 5D3.... That said, if such new technology emerges, it is a safe bet that a 5D4 is well along the design path and will probably emerge a half year or so after the 7D2 and will probably have 1 1/2 stops (or more) performance over the 7D2.