canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Third Party Manufacturers => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on April 05, 2013, 07:35:51 AM

Title: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Canon Rumors on April 05, 2013, 07:35:51 AM

MōVI M10

Vincent Laforet began hyping this product this week, and here it is.


Says Vincent about the MōVI

“….the beauty of this device is how quickly you can also make more simple shots.   A push or slide is done in seconds and near perfectly.   You can add a tilt or pan to that too to make it even fancier if you’d like with little effort.  And the speed at which you can work is hard for many producers (including a friend and long time producer I worked with on a commercial this week… until he sees the results and how quickly you can get them.)  Then you run down stairs, walk across a busy intersection, or ride in a vehicle and your head will certainly spin…”


About the MōVI M10 (From Freefly Systems)

A handheld 3-axis digital stabilized camera gimbal, so advanced, it redefines the possibilities for camera movement. The heart of the gimbal is Freefly’s proprietary high performance IMU and brushless direct drive system. The gimbal is 100% custom designed in-house by our engineering team. No compromises were made to accommodate off-the-shelf brushless motors, motor drives or IMUs. Creating the gimbal from scratch allowed Freefly to precisely execute our vision for the next generation of stabilized camera gimbals. In creating this camera gimbal, we aim to empower a new era of stabilized cinematography. Freefly MōVI – “The New Moving Picture.”


MōVI in Action

Below Vincent Laforet and Freefly systems talk about the advantages of the new stabilizer. In practice it looks extremely cool and the results seem to speak for themselves. The entry level M5 is $7,500 and the mid level M10 is $15,000.



Freefly Systems | Vincent Laforet Blog


More coverage can be found at Planet5D. Check it out here.


cr


Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Ant_Pap_Cy on April 05, 2013, 08:27:12 AM
My question is, how do you pan and control your pan ?? Tilt up or down and then back to position ?? Is it really worth that much ??
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: dstppy on April 05, 2013, 08:47:42 AM
But however will we get sea-sick at the next bourne movie?

 ;D

So, the big deal is the size right? From what I'm getting, it's not, like, going to replace cranes or actual stabilized mounts when they can be used (most of the time).

Is this for the indie-film crowd? 

Seems like it might be nice for shooting stills from a vehicle/boat.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: RGF on April 05, 2013, 08:50:54 AM
Any possible use for "still' photographers?   Will you be able to combine this with IS to gain another few stops and still have a sharp image?
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: mws on April 05, 2013, 08:51:09 AM
I think I'll wait for the Chinese to clone it for $1500/$750.

From the looks of the device there doesn't seem to be any reason it shouldn't cost a more then a 200 for a clone.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: TrumpetPower! on April 05, 2013, 08:56:24 AM
My question is, how do you pan and control your pan ?? Tilt up or down and then back to position ?? Is it really worth that much ??

It's a two-operator rig. One person holds it and moves it through the scene. The other remotely aims the camera using a wireless joystick.

There's a video on Vince's blog that shows a guy waving the rig around like crazy and the camera stays rock solid steady in the middle of it.

I'd say that, yes, definitely, this is a game changer.

First, buying the rig outright costs as much as a single day's rental of many of the other pro stabilization rigs. That's not at all unlike the 5DII, whose purchase price was also a fraction of the cost of a large format digital film rig capable of taking fast glass.

Next, it can do almost everything that the traditional support systems can -- tracks, dollies, booms, all that sort of thing. Maybe not always quite as well, but, if you're on a budget (and keep in mind that "budget" films are themselves very expensive), it'll certainly meet the 80/20 rule and then some.

Last, it can do all sorts of new things that the old rigs can't do. That shot with the operator on roller skates following the cab, for example. I can also imagine physically handing the camera through a window or other small opening, or smoothly attaching it mid-shot to a pulley to raise it to the roof, where it again gets quickly disconnected while another operator continues the shot and runs down the fire escape -- that sort of thing.

Yeah, it's a game changer, even if only in the world of video where several grand for a support system is pocket change.

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Krob78 on April 05, 2013, 09:28:46 AM
Okay, I'm not into video but watching it in action during that short, makes me want one!!  I see the BIF guy, running along the edge of the forest chasing birds!  haha!  Very cool piece of equipment!   8)
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: thien135 on April 05, 2013, 10:10:50 AM
I think the glidecam system is still the best/ affordable option now for dslr. If you know Devin Super Tramp then you would agree with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/devinsupertramp (http://www.youtube.com/user/devinsupertramp)
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Tioga Designs on April 05, 2013, 10:25:56 AM
I didn't realize how important roller blading skills were in film making.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: stuDoc on April 05, 2013, 10:31:37 AM
I see the BIF guy, running along the edge of the forest chasing birds!  haha!

Yes...except BIF guy's wife would be the one running with the gimbal, while BIF-guy manipulates the joystick from a lawn-chair.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: KevinB on April 05, 2013, 10:38:06 AM
Wow that video was excellent !! I shot some video the other day with my 5d3 the video looked great but the motion was horrible next to impossible to get a steady shot moving with the camera.. These tools look great, change the way movies are made...
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: tomsop on April 05, 2013, 11:00:29 AM
Those were not any regular rollerblades.  Those were special ones with extra smooth wheels, a $950 accessory. 

It is $7500 because of the tax to pay for our welfare economy with over-regulation.  I expect the chinese version to come out soon for $750 - just don't lick the paint. 
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: tomsop on April 05, 2013, 11:03:32 AM
So is this an implicit criticism of the 5D Mark 3 - he has moved on to the EOS 1D.    :P
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Ant_Pap_Cy on April 05, 2013, 11:15:13 AM
My question is, how do you pan and control your pan ?? Tilt up or down and then back to position ?? Is it really worth that much ??

It's a two-operator rig. One person holds it and moves it through the scene. The other remotely aims the camera using a wireless joystick.

There's a video on Vince's blog that shows a guy waving the rig around like crazy and the camera stays rock solid steady in the middle of it.

I'd say that, yes, definitely, this is a game changer.

First, buying the rig outright costs as much as a single day's rental of many of the other pro stabilization rigs. That's not at all unlike the 5DII, whose purchase price was also a fraction of the cost of a large format digital film rig capable of taking fast glass.

Next, it can do almost everything that the traditional support systems can -- tracks, dollies, booms, all that sort of thing. Maybe not always quite as well, but, if you're on a budget (and keep in mind that "budget" films are themselves very expensive), it'll certainly meet the 80/20 rule and then some.

Last, it can do all sorts of new things that the old rigs can't do. That shot with the operator on roller skates following the cab, for example. I can also imagine physically handing the camera through a window or other small opening, or smoothly attaching it mid-shot to a pulley to raise it to the roof, where it again gets quickly disconnected while another operator continues the shot and runs down the fire escape -- that sort of thing.

Yeah, it's a game changer, even if only in the world of video where several grand for a support system is pocket change.

Cheers,

b&
As i am at work i did not have time to read all the details on the article. All i saw was the "making of" video and every time they were about to pan they would cut to something else, hence my query ! Thanks for the enlightenment :) As i am also part of this field i do know about the prices a low budget film can get up to ! And yes, it ain't really that cheap ! The reason why asked if it is really worth the price is because i was unaware of the second person with the remote. And things like that tend to be pricy. My only concern now is that when it gets to be available in the UK it will probably cost £7500 instead of really going by the rate. Oh, well ! Thanks for the write up mate, much appreciated & let the money saving begin ! :) 
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: facedodge on April 05, 2013, 11:33:05 AM
I see the BIF guy, running along the edge of the forest chasing birds!  haha!

Yes...except BIF guy's wife would be the one running with the gimbal, while BIF-guy manipulates the joystick from a lawn-chair.


 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Etienne on April 05, 2013, 11:48:50 AM
It does look awesome, but out of my budget range.
Maybe it will be affordable at daily rental rates.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: pelebel on April 05, 2013, 12:00:42 PM
Too expensive to be called "indie"
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 05, 2013, 12:06:59 PM
Too expensive to be called "indie"
Rental!!  The cost of renting a high end capability is much more today, so if you need it, its a bargain.  If you don't, ...
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: timmy_650 on April 05, 2013, 12:31:04 PM
I am blown away by this and I don't even do filming. I agree it is a game changer, think of the time you could save with this. To be ready to shoot at pretty much anytime is amazing.
The price isn't bad for what it does and the things it will replace.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Drizzt321 on April 05, 2013, 01:49:55 PM
I think I'll wait for the Chinese to clone it for $1500/$750.

Not sure I see this happening anytime soon. The secret sauce seems to be the extremely quiet and responsive motors used, as well as the controller used to maintain the stabilization.

Plus the fact that I don't see most of the Chinese knockoffs to work as well. Perhaps they'll work pretty well, but unless you spend the money for high tolerance parts, it won't even match up to what this can do.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Midphase on April 05, 2013, 02:01:35 PM
It is $7500 because of the tax to pay for our welfare economy with over-regulation.

Sigh...you just had to throw that in there?  ::)
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Roger Jones on April 05, 2013, 03:31:45 PM
It is $7500 because of the tax to pay for our welfare economy with over-regulation.

Sigh...you just had to throw that in there?  ::)

Yeah tomsop go grind your ax in the redstate forums.

There won't be a Chinese clone of this any time soon (or ever) because the value add is in the software. The Chinese cloners are good at copying things like the glide cam that are essentially mechanical but they don't have the ability to develop sophisticated software implementations yet. I suspected that this was the type of thing that laforet would be hyping but I was hoping that it would be cheaper. It looked to me like 80% of the non areal shots could have been done with a steadicam/ glide cam + vest that costs 10-20% of the møvi. Also there was no audio. There have been numerous servo stabilizer platforms but the problem with them is noise, the buzzing and clicking of the motors and platforms. This thing is claimed to be silent but thats a subjective term. Looks cool and definitely points to a future direction but I'll have to see some user reviews rather than marketing videos before I decide if its worth the investment.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: epyonxero on April 05, 2013, 03:51:25 PM
It is $7500 because of the tax to pay for our welfare economy with over-regulation.

Sigh...you just had to throw that in there?  ::)

Yeah tomsop go grind your ax in the redstate forums.

There won't be a Chinese clone of this any time soon (or ever) because the value add is in the software. The Chinese cloners are good at copying things like the glide cam that are essentially mechanical but they don't have the ability to develop sophisticated software implementations yet. I suspected that this was the type of thing that laforet would be hyping but I was hoping that it would be cheaper. It looked to me like 80% of the non areal shots could have been done with a steadicam/ glide cam + vest that costs 10-20% of the møvi. Also there was no audio. There have been numerous servo stabilizer platforms but the problem with them is noise, the buzzing and clicking of the motors and platforms. This thing is claimed to be silent but thats a subjective term. Looks cool and definitely points to a future direction but I'll have to see some user reviews rather than marketing videos before I decide if its worth the investment.

You can buy a controller today for $60 and the software is open source. This product is really just a brushless multirotor gimbal without the multirotor. The big difference is the size, nobody is flying a camera the size of a 1DC from a multicopter so the current gimbals are made to handle smaller cameras. But if you had no intention of flying it, it wouldnt take much more than larger motors and higher current capacity from the controller to make a handheld gimbal like this. Id say you could make a gimbal like this for $1000.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: dstppy on April 05, 2013, 04:38:45 PM
It is $7500 because of the tax to pay for our welfare economy with over-regulation.

Sigh...you just had to throw that in there?  ::)

I was thinking the same thing . . . I can't seem to escape this crap on ANY forum.  Sad.

I cringe any time China or High Price is mentioned; I was napping during most of Economics and History and I've got a better understanding than a lot of these people.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on April 05, 2013, 06:00:58 PM
My question is, how do you pan and control your pan ?? Tilt up or down and then back to position ?? Is it really worth that much ??

It's a two-operator rig. One person holds it and moves it through the scene. The other remotely aims the camera using a wireless joystick.

There's a video on Vince's blog that shows a guy waving the rig around like crazy and the camera stays rock solid steady in the middle of it.

I'd say that, yes, definitely, this is a game changer.

First, buying the rig outright costs as much as a single day's rental of many of the other pro stabilization rigs. That's not at all unlike the 5DII, whose purchase price was also a fraction of the cost of a large format digital film rig capable of taking fast glass.

Next, it can do almost everything that the traditional support systems can -- tracks, dollies, booms, all that sort of thing. Maybe not always quite as well, but, if you're on a budget (and keep in mind that "budget" films are themselves very expensive), it'll certainly meet the 80/20 rule and then some.

Last, it can do all sorts of new things that the old rigs can't do. That shot with the operator on roller skates following the cab, for example. I can also imagine physically handing the camera through a window or other small opening, or smoothly attaching it mid-shot to a pulley to raise it to the roof, where it again gets quickly disconnected while another operator continues the shot and runs down the fire escape -- that sort of thing.

Yeah, it's a game changer, even if only in the world of video where several grand for a support system is pocket change.

Cheers,

b&

yeah it does seem to be pretty awesome indeed

(a bit expensive and tricky for say the joe blow lone individual DSLR owner so it's not quite what I expected though)
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: FunPhotons on April 05, 2013, 06:04:10 PM
Pretty cool but not a lot of details - or non from what I can see - on how it works. I picked up from a forum on their site that it take LiPO batteries, indicating it's an active system of some kind. Any idea?

EDIT: OK I see from some of the other comments that the active part is for controlling the pan. Neat ... is the stabilization purely mechanical then?
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Drizzt321 on April 05, 2013, 06:48:14 PM
Pretty cool but not a lot of details - or non from what I can see - on how it works. I picked up from a forum on their site that it take LiPO batteries, indicating it's an active system of some kind. Any idea?

EDIT: OK I see from some of the other comments that the active part is for controlling the pan. Neat ... is the stabilization purely mechanical then?

My impression is it's actually active stabilization. So there's a little micro-controller with some secret sauce firmware controlling the motors, which happens to also take into account the pan/tilt that the remote operator wants.

As others have said above, one of the general problems with these types of systems is the motor noise, which from what I saw they say they have mostly taken care of. I imagine if you're using an on-camera mic there might still be some noise from the motors, but if you're doing off-camera mic this device might be quiet enough that you don't have it picked up.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Myth on April 05, 2013, 07:13:24 PM
Once again a company demonstrates some intelligence by designing and producing a new, useful, innovative product. Then unfortunately demonstrates a degree of 'insanity' by pricing the product at a completely ridiculous price point.

Yes, research has to be completed, prototypes made and tested, final machine moulds made. Despite these costs this product is considerably higher in cost than it should be.

I have a friend who works in metal fabrication and he regulalry laughs at DSLR rigs in excess of $1,000 which i'm told have $30 of components, and thats for a US made product. Go to China and the price drops considerably.

When I saw the price of this I didn't even bother to investigate it further.

One for those with big budgets sadly...
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: RGomezPhotos on April 05, 2013, 07:43:13 PM
I think this is an amazing device!  I don't do video but with this device, I just might!  The simplicity, control and the amount of time it could save will be amazing.

I think it's too expensive to be a true game-changer but it's going in that direction.  Looks like this device could save you money in that you don't need as much equipment to accomplish your goals with this device and less people-power as well.  Give it a year or two and some competition, and I think the price on this will drop to close to half.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on April 06, 2013, 02:13:51 PM
Once again a company demonstrates some intelligence by designing and producing a new, useful, innovative product. Then unfortunately demonstrates a degree of 'insanity' by pricing the product at a completely ridiculous price point.

Yes, research has to be completed, prototypes made and tested, final machine moulds made. Despite these costs this product is considerably higher in cost than it should be.

I have a friend who works in metal fabrication and he regulalry laughs at DSLR rigs in excess of $1,000 which i'm told have $30 of components, and thats for a US made product. Go to China and the price drops considerably.

When I saw the price of this I didn't even bother to investigate it further.

One for those with big budgets sadly...

Yeah but it is IS more than just fabricating it. You probably have a handful of people with good degrees working on it and then you have marketing expenses, etc., probably have low volume of sales and if they are going to each live on like 20k a year they wouldn't bother with stuff like this and they'd be doing some other sort of business. I don't know exactly what the price should be, maybe it is a bit high, but it isn't reasonable to expect it to go for price of parts! Certainly not even close for some years. And the tooling on this sounds more expensive than normal.

Not that some things are not simply over-priced even to start. And man look at audio cable beyond lowest end, it's selling $1 a foot cable for $1000 a foot and even worse it's pure snake oil in that case on top (or a few cents per foot cable for $40 a foot like with some of the Monster stuff). And then OTOH you have Monoprice or Home Depot selling few cents per foot cable for few cents per foot and it's almost always all you ever need no matter how fancy the equipment. Or look at the crazy prices of Canon lens hoods!
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: c.d.embrey on April 06, 2013, 03:06:40 PM
Oh Wow, another gimmick for the talantless, aka a Magic Bullet.

Using this device will require two well trained people. Does the low-budget film-maker have the money to hire these operators ??? Or the time for yourself and a friend to become proficient ???
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: The_Arsonist on April 07, 2013, 02:05:48 PM
I feel like most of the comments on this are made without realizing the degree of precision and actual mechanical workings of this device. It is not just a mechanical stabilizing rig like a Steadicam is, this is a smart, microchip/software controlled motorized rig. For everyone scoffing at the cost, consider these points

Then consider all the things this can do for a filmmaker that needs to work on a budget and on a time crunch. This can replace a dolly in many cases; that means no transporting and setting up dolly tracks or slider systems. It can replace the traditional head controls on cranes and jibs, and can even make replace a jib in some instances; think walking up a ladder or stairs. It can replace a Steadicam, which many people couldn't afford to even dream of including in their movies. On top of all that, it can create shots that would be completely impractical to impossible with traditional support systems. Plus, there is always the option of adding the hexacopter to this system to get aerial shots.

That being said, I'm sure the cost will come down some as more manufacturers get into this market, but people saying it should cost under a thousand bucks are completely off base. How much does adding IS to a 70-200 cost?
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: mulder on April 08, 2013, 11:05:16 AM
i do aerial filming and we recently already got this thechnology for gopro sized cameras, check this ultimate test: https://vimeo.com/60977570#at=0 (https://vimeo.com/60977570#at=0)

a version for DSLRs is already being developed and should be out soon. The controller and IMU is developed by Alex Mos: http://www.simplebgc.com/ (http://www.simplebgc.com/) and costs no more than 110Euros, e.g. at http://flyduino.net/Alex-Mos-Brushless-Gimbal-BLG (http://flyduino.net/Alex-Mos-Brushless-Gimbal-BLG)

I expect that the DSLR gimbal will not be more than $1500  8)


here is another one where two different controllers are tested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8iwlrilpHQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8iwlrilpHQ) - seems that these things are not that complicated, just someone had to have the idea ;)
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Drizzt321 on April 08, 2013, 06:55:33 PM
i do aerial filming and we recently already got this thechnology for gopro sized cameras, check this ultimate test: https://vimeo.com/60977570#at=0 (https://vimeo.com/60977570#at=0)

a version for DSLRs is already being developed and should be out soon. The controller and IMU is developed by Alex Mos: http://www.simplebgc.com/ (http://www.simplebgc.com/) and costs no more than 110Euros, e.g. at http://flyduino.net/Alex-Mos-Brushless-Gimbal-BLG (http://flyduino.net/Alex-Mos-Brushless-Gimbal-BLG)

I expect that the DSLR gimbal will not be more than $1500  8)


here is another one where two different controllers are tested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8iwlrilpHQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8iwlrilpHQ) - seems that these things are not that complicated, just someone had to have the idea ;)

Looks pretty good...but will these other options A) hold up to 15 pounds with the same stability, and B) also allow for remote operator to pan/tilt with a well integrated system?

Home-built or low cost tools are great, and definitely should be encouraged and often turn out great work, but I hesitate to say they are usable for the majority of film makers, especially not for ones with any serious amount of budget. They will be attracted, in general, to very well made, very well supported, and known and trusted tools. The Movi meets the first one, so far seems like it will meet the second, and with Vincent Laforet endorsing it, it has a very great start on the last point.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: mulder on April 09, 2013, 05:02:48 AM

Looks pretty good...but will these other options A) hold up to 15 pounds with the same stability, and B) also allow for remote operator to pan/tilt with a well integrated system?

Home-built or low cost tools are great, and definitely should be encouraged and often turn out great work, but I hesitate to say they are usable for the majority of film makers, especially not for ones with any serious amount of budget. They will be attracted, in general, to very well made, very well supported, and known and trusted tools. The Movi meets the first one, so far seems like it will meet the second, and with Vincent Laforet endorsing it, it has a very great start on the last point.

agree, DIY solutions lack the level of support I would expect from a solution that costs 15k. but its certainly worth a look for indie film makers on a tight budget because you can get the same results for a fraction of the costs. I wouldn't be suprised if this gimbal was actually inspired by the recent developments by DIY projects such as the one from Alex Mos.
Title: Re: Introducing the MōVI Stabilizer
Post by: Drizzt321 on April 09, 2013, 06:48:51 PM

Looks pretty good...but will these other options A) hold up to 15 pounds with the same stability, and B) also allow for remote operator to pan/tilt with a well integrated system?

Home-built or low cost tools are great, and definitely should be encouraged and often turn out great work, but I hesitate to say they are usable for the majority of film makers, especially not for ones with any serious amount of budget. They will be attracted, in general, to very well made, very well supported, and known and trusted tools. The Movi meets the first one, so far seems like it will meet the second, and with Vincent Laforet endorsing it, it has a very great start on the last point.

agree, DIY solutions lack the level of support I would expect from a solution that costs 15k. but its certainly worth a look for indie film makers on a tight budget because you can get the same results for a fraction of the costs. I wouldn't be suprised if this gimbal was actually inspired by the recent developments by DIY projects such as the one from Alex Mos.

Could be, or maybe the DIY was inspired by commercial designs which include the hover copter that those guys have. But I agree, it's something that an indie film maker on a very limited budget might try, and probably would still get good results even if it's not as refined and doesn't quite have all of the same capabilities or as refined as Movi.
Title: Stabilization Mövi
Post by: fredericsiffert on May 03, 2013, 01:44:02 PM
Do you want to stabilize your movie ? Watch here : http://fredericsiffert.blogspot.ch/2013/05/une-solution-pour-stabiliser-le-film.html (http://fredericsiffert.blogspot.ch/2013/05/une-solution-pour-stabiliser-le-film.html)  :P