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Gear Talk => Third Party Manufacturers => Topic started by: Marsu42 on April 05, 2013, 01:32:36 PM

Title: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Marsu42 on April 05, 2013, 01:32:36 PM
For once, I'm really happy to be a Canon shooter - no matter what the dynamic range is :-)

Animal rights activists have targeted (doh) Nikon for a campaign because the evil empire is not only selling cameras for shooting (doh) baby pets but also rifle scopes so you're able to take not only the picture back home, but also the real thing... plus they sponsor trophy hunting in Africa for watermarked shots.

If this is over the top or a legit criticism of business practice is up to you to decide and I certainly don't want a political discussion or even a flame war, but I'm posting this as information because no Canonista should be ignorant about public relation events that for once hurt the main competitor:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/04/03/nikon-under-fire-for-making-rifle-scopes (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/04/03/nikon-under-fire-for-making-rifle-scopes)

http://www.viva.org.uk/huntingban/nikon/ (http://www.viva.org.uk/huntingban/nikon/)

EDIT: Added Nikon print commercial
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: 9VIII on April 05, 2013, 06:18:48 PM
That scope looks awesome.

Hunting is sometimes necessary, and in well regulated places not a problem in the least. I do agree that the idea of hunting exotic animals (populations numbering less than millions) should probably be put to an end though. There's more than enough stuff to shoot without endangering species.

I would say this is worth a letter to the company, but the terms of the boycott seem a little sensationalist.
Title: Long time Nikon user (Photographer Stefano Unterthiner) condemns Nikon gunsight
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 08, 2013, 04:21:15 PM
Nikon receives negative publicity for their product "“Monarch African Rifle Scope”
Stefano Unterthiner, winner of the Wildlife Photographer of the Year in 2008, criticised Nikon’s connection to hunting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302805/Fury-wildlife-camera-company-Nikon-produce-rifle-sight-hunting-big-game-Africa.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302805/Fury-wildlife-camera-company-Nikon-produce-rifle-sight-hunting-big-game-Africa.html)

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html)
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: psolberg on April 13, 2013, 08:00:36 AM
am I supposed to sell my gear because of a junior marketing guy did?  ;)
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: mrsfotografie on April 13, 2013, 08:29:27 AM
I hate guns, so I shoot with a CANON  8)
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Sporgon on April 13, 2013, 09:08:29 AM
I hate guns, so I shoot with a CANON  8)


And I've never heard of anyone mounting a 'scope on a Canon - its dynamic range isn't good enough  ;)
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: rumorzmonger on April 13, 2013, 09:19:14 AM
Don't worry about those animals - if the 'scopes are made by Nikon, they will all be out of calibration and aim to the left.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: AprilForever on April 13, 2013, 09:19:43 AM
Those are hogs, and hogs are numerous, and rather a nussance as well, but worse still often a threat to local endangered and threatened populations. I am totally against poaching of threatened species, and totally against wanton destruction. But, some animals NEED to be hunted by man, often especially because we displaced their predators through habitat destruction. Here in Florida, hogs are a severe nuisance, and the laws are actually pretty easy-going about the taking o' hogs. The poster says "Bring home the bacon", so the thought is not some Great White Hunter racking up tons of kills for trophies, but a productive use, potentially, anyway. THere is no reason to be so sensitive about this...
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Click on April 13, 2013, 09:29:06 AM
I hate guns, so I shoot with a CANON  8)


 ;D Good one!
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Pixelsign on April 13, 2013, 10:00:57 AM
well, the carl zeiss group is producing sights for anti personnel weapons like the hk g36 (for hunting rifles as well  ;) )...
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: skfla on April 13, 2013, 10:01:18 AM
Don't worry about those animals - if the 'scopes are made by Nikon, they will all be out of calibration and aim to the left.
LOL, sooo true
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: IWLP on April 13, 2013, 10:07:14 AM
I will never, ever buy a Nikon scope!

I'll stick with my Leupolds.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: TrumpetPower! on April 13, 2013, 10:13:01 AM
First, I'm kinda surprised they're not also taking flak from the pushback of the 90% of Americans fed up with the NRA. Their words say this is for hunting game, but it reads much more like a sniper rifle for somebody wanting to take out an entire SWAT team ("pigs") with a single magazine. The veiling, it is very thin.

But, assuming it really is just for hunting and not for urban assault (though I have a hard time imagining a soldier, uniformed or not, who wouldn't want something like this), it's worth noting that today's multinationals are huge corporations with their fingers in all sorts of pies. For example, it's very likely that at least one Canon imaging device, especially a printer of some type, was used in this Nikon campaign. So, where's the uproar over Canon printers being used to sell Nikon rifle scopes?

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: distant.star on April 13, 2013, 10:41:11 AM
.
I'm boycotting all these imaging companies. They make infernal machines that steal your soul!

My belief is that corporations have essentially completed their takeover of the world. They will make minor adjustments responding to niggling little complaints like this to keep sales at full tilt. Beyond that, we and they are on a path to destroy this planet. Since I can't stop it, I plan to enjoy the ride into the pits of hell.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Canon-F1 on April 13, 2013, 11:13:29 AM
great BS thread.  ;D

every company that is really good at optics has in one way or the other to do with military equipment. zeiss, nikon, linos optics (i worked for them) etc. .... and im sure canon too.

if your are really concerned.. go VEGAN!!
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: brad-man on April 13, 2013, 11:23:03 AM
Those are hogs, and hogs are numerous, and rather a nussance as well, but worse still often a threat to local endangered and threatened populations. I am totally against poaching of threatened species, and totally against wanton destruction. But, some animals NEED to be hunted by man, often especially because we displaced their predators through habitat destruction. Here in Florida, hogs are a severe nuisance, and the laws are actually pretty easy-going about the taking o' hogs. The poster says "Bring home the bacon", so the thought is not some Great White Hunter racking up tons of kills for trophies, but a productive use, potentially, anyway. THere is no reason to be so sensitive about this...

Quite so. I live in S Florida and we are overrun with harmful exotics. We have beautiful  lionfish ravaging our reefs, and all sorts of pythons taking over the Everglades. Both species are pretty much on the "kill on sight" list. Can I put a Nikon scope on a speargun? The diffraction of the water might compensate for the crappy optics...
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 12:19:19 PM
Ha ha ha, good one ... btw, when I started my earlier thread (on this same topic) I did not notice this topic was already posted ... sorry about that.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: junkwerks on April 13, 2013, 01:11:47 PM
All purpose hunting tool.
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/binoculars (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/binoculars)

Would be interesting to know the breakdown on sales to gun toter's (hunters and government ) vs. non-gun related activities. Canon probably has a good idea and won't release that information for good reason.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: aroo on April 13, 2013, 01:58:32 PM
All the major optics companies have their roots in targeting animals... humans.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: AprilForever on April 13, 2013, 02:48:48 PM
Those are hogs, and hogs are numerous, and rather a nussance as well, but worse still often a threat to local endangered and threatened populations. I am totally against poaching of threatened species, and totally against wanton destruction. But, some animals NEED to be hunted by man, often especially because we displaced their predators through habitat destruction. Here in Florida, hogs are a severe nuisance, and the laws are actually pretty easy-going about the taking o' hogs. The poster says "Bring home the bacon", so the thought is not some Great White Hunter racking up tons of kills for trophies, but a productive use, potentially, anyway. THere is no reason to be so sensitive about this...

Quite so. I live in S Florida and we are overrun with harmful exotics. We have beautiful  lionfish ravaging our reefs, and all sorts of pythons taking over the Everglades. Both species are pretty much on the "kill on sight" list. Can I put a Nikon scope on a speargun? The diffraction of the water might compensate for the crappy optics...

Indeed we are. Sadly, a scope would help none helping either... Always aim left with a Nikon scope!
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: paul13walnut5 on April 13, 2013, 03:12:55 PM
I won't be boycotting Nikon, mainly because I don't buy Nikon anyway.

If their scopes are anything like their lenses then you'll need a pocket book of caveats depending on the age of your gun..

The nikon f mount will work on any nikon slr.. except if you need aperture index, except if you need an AF motor, on an fx body but at 3mp etc etc etc.

It's a pretty nasty advert, but then it probably appeals to the mindset of the nasty people who shoot animals for fun (and I am clear to make the distinction between fun and necessary culls)

If canon made a similar advert or made a similar product would I boycott?  Probably not.  Theres all sorts of reasons to boycott all sorts of products.. some folk might boycott a japenese product because of their historical reluctance to accept and apologise for war crimes, some folk might boycott an israeli manufactured bag because they don't like the way the palestinians are treated.

I grew up in a lefty house, so nestle was barred at one point over the african baby milk powder, outspan over apartheid etc. but these companies are still in business.  I'm sure nikon will survive.  Despite recent attrocities recreational gun users don't seem to putting down their arms any time soon.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: MrFotoFool on April 13, 2013, 04:32:57 PM
I am not a hunter myself and do not see the attraction of it.  Nevertheless, properly regulated hunting can bring in lots of money for conservation.  And the statements above about feral hogs - which are non-native invasives - are certainly true.  The boycott is ridiculous.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: ewg963 on April 13, 2013, 05:01:36 PM
Those are hogs, and hogs are numerous, and rather a nussance as well, but worse still often a threat to local endangered and threatened populations. I am totally against poaching of threatened species, and totally against wanton destruction. But, some animals NEED to be hunted by man, often especially because we displaced their predators through habitat destruction. Here in Florida, hogs are a severe nuisance, and the laws are actually pretty easy-going about the taking o' hogs. The poster says "Bring home the bacon", so the thought is not some Great White Hunter racking up tons of kills for trophies, but a productive use, potentially, anyway. THere is no reason to be so sensitive about this...
+1
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: RGF on April 13, 2013, 05:25:58 PM
Thanks for the heads up.

To me, so what - This may cause a few fringe anti-hunters to boycott Nikon and possibly even more sane people to buy it. 

Whole thing is stupid if you ask me (which you did not).  Hunting is a personal choice, hunting endangered is criminal but not a reason to boycott the make of the rifle scope.  Would you boycott a keyboard manufacturer because some people who use the keyboard are hackers???
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: mrsfotografie on April 14, 2013, 04:38:47 AM
The diffraction of the water might compensate for the crappy optics...

I don't think it's fair to bash Nikon's optical know-how like that, they have some stunning optics. A friend of mine has the 200-400, oh how I wish that would be a Canon.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: bycostello on April 14, 2013, 04:47:36 AM
so what they make scopes.... 
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Marsu42 on April 14, 2013, 07:48:24 AM
so what they make scopes....

As always, animal rights activists seem to live on another planet and completely fail to connect to the rest of the world, but certainly the us american public. After all arms manufacturers don't kill, and gun's don't either, it's the people that use them, so if people abuse automatic weapons or scopes it's certainly only the fault of a small minority? But well, here's probably not the place to discuss that in depth.

Anyway, the issue of some with Nikon is that they the lack of differentiation between shooting for re-balancing the wildlife after human impact or general sports hunting of non-endangered species and trophy hunting that is a factor in severely diminishing some animal species in africa (but they sponsor trophy safaris), for example see http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html)

But for some reason or another Nikon doesn't seem to be entirely unaffected by the pressure - they recently re-designed their arms website to exclude shots of happy hunters standing in 19s century pose above capital prey and renamed it from "Nikon Hunting" to "Nikon Sport Optics".
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: m on April 14, 2013, 09:15:25 AM
renamed it from "Nikon Hunting" to "Nikon Sport Optics".

Leica also calls it "sport optics".
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: mrsfotografie on April 14, 2013, 10:47:58 AM
It just occurred to me: maybe we should all go out and buy Nikon camera's, increasing Nikon revenue so much they can close shop on the hunting sights  ;D
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: insanitybeard on April 15, 2013, 05:22:15 AM
.
I'm boycotting all these imaging companies. They make infernal machines that steal your soul!

My belief is that corporations have essentially completed their takeover of the world. They will make minor adjustments responding to niggling little complaints like this to keep sales at full tilt. Beyond that, we and they are on a path to destroy this planet. Since I can't stop it, I plan to enjoy the ride into the pits of hell.

Ain't that the truth. Very true Sir, very eloquent.  :'(
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: jebrady03 on April 15, 2013, 07:40:04 AM
Those are hogs, and hogs are numerous, and rather a nussance as well, but worse still often a threat to local endangered and threatened populations. I am totally against poaching of threatened species, and totally against wanton destruction. But, some animals NEED to be hunted by man, often especially because we displaced their predators through habitat destruction. Here in Florida, hogs are a severe nuisance, and the laws are actually pretty easy-going about the taking o' hogs. The poster says "Bring home the bacon", so the thought is not some Great White Hunter racking up tons of kills for trophies, but a productive use, potentially, anyway. THere is no reason to be so sensitive about this...

Quite so. I live in S Florida and we are overrun with harmful exotics. We have beautiful  lionfish ravaging our reefs, and all sorts of pythons taking over the Everglades. Both species are pretty much on the "kill on sight" list. Can I put a Nikon scope on a speargun? The diffraction of the water might compensate for the crappy optics...

Agreed about hogs.  They are the number one most destructive non-native animal species out there.  What's number two you ask?  Burmese Pythons?  NOPE!  Feral cats.  Feral cats are less destructive than hogs because they don't destroy habitat like hogs do - but they do kill for fun - daily.  Where are pythons on the "most destructive" list of invasives?  If you believe the media hype - then hundreds of thousands of them are a half a step slither away from killing everything in the US including the human population.  Or, if you're more informed about the issue, have spent any actual time hunting them, and/or know anything about their natural environment and their requirements to survive, then you realize there's only a few thousand of them (max) and they are a very localized problem in South Florida with no ability to spread anywhere else.  They also don't eat or kill much (like cats) and they definitely don't destroy habitat (like hogs).

Need some proof?  How about the month-long FFW SPONSORED Burmese python challenged that happened just recently.  Something like 1600 people had 30 days to capture as many as they could.  How many did they get?  68!!!  If you gave 1600 people 30 days to kill as many hogs or cats as they could, they'd get hundreds and probably more like THOUSANDS!

Don't get me wrong, I'm vehemently opposed to the survival of any non-native species, but we should really inform the general populace that Senator Bill Nelson has fooled them all by making the Burmese Python the "poster child" for non-natives.  The Brazilian Pepper plant, hogs, and yes - even fluffy the cat are FARRRRRR more dangerous to the Everglades (and the rest of the US) than Burmese Pythons.

/end rant
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Don Haines on April 15, 2013, 07:59:46 AM
Like so many issues, there are no simple answers. For example, look at Ducks Unlimited.... There is not a government or environmental group in North America that has done a fraction as much as them to preserve wetlands......and they are doing it so that they can shoot ducks.

Title: Why stop with Nikon?
Post by: crasher8 on April 15, 2013, 09:00:04 AM
I'm boycotting the following:

dirty sensors
dust on filters
disembodied hands in pics
Canon Haters
Nikon Haters
Film Haters
Folks who think noobs shouldn't buy top notch gear
flare, unless artistically shot
older gay men on Model Mayhem who are cruising
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: RLPhoto on April 15, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
I prefer zeiss scopes over nikon anyway.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: AlanF on April 15, 2013, 10:13:27 AM
Don't worry about those animals - if the 'scopes are made by Nikon, they will all be out of calibration and aim to the left.

We should keep politics out of the forum - some will prefer they aim to the right.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: TrumpetPower! on April 15, 2013, 10:21:23 AM
Agreed about hogs.  They are the number one most destructive non-native animal species out there.  What's number two you ask?  Burmese Pythons?  NOPE!  Feral cats.

All three species pale in comparison to H. sapiens sapiens.

Similarly, the destruction from hogs, pythons, and cats again pales in comparison to the destruction from corn, wheat, cattle, poultry, cotton....

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: distant.star on April 15, 2013, 10:26:46 AM
.
Well, I don't like it when butterflies get in your hair!! Damn nuisance.

I say we need more butterfly nets -- and we should go to the United Nations about this!
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: awinphoto on April 15, 2013, 10:43:21 AM
Killing hogs is murder!  Yummy tasty murder!  breakfast time, where's my bacon!
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Deva on April 15, 2013, 11:37:46 AM
Don't worry about those animals - if the 'scopes are made by Nikon, they will all be out of calibration and aim to the left.

We should keep politics out of the forum - some will prefer they aim to the right.

According to one of my colleagues, it was because he aimed to the left that he ended up with twins...
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: rpt on April 15, 2013, 11:38:53 AM
Agreed about hogs.  They are the number one most destructive non-native animal species out there.  What's number two you ask?  Burmese Pythons?  NOPE!  Feral cats.

All three species pale in comparison to H. sapiens sapiens.

You are so right!
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: sagittariansrock on April 15, 2013, 12:37:49 PM
if your are really concerned.. go VEGAN!!

Sorry to disagree, but plants are living too!
And they give us oxygen and absorb carbon dioxide.
In fact, it is only out of my concern for them that I eat meat...  8)
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: jebrady03 on April 15, 2013, 12:45:50 PM
Agreed about hogs.  They are the number one most destructive non-native animal species out there.  What's number two you ask?  Burmese Pythons?  NOPE!  Feral cats.

All three species pale in comparison to H. sapiens sapiens.

Similarly, the destruction from hogs, pythons, and cats again pales in comparison to the destruction from corn, wheat, cattle, poultry, cotton....

Cheers,

b&

100% completely agree.  Human interference has had the largest impact on the Everglades.  I'd venture to guess that the human impact would be larger than all animals and plants combined (even if you exclude the fact that humans are the cause of all the plants and animals being there).  Pollution and drainage have ravaged the Everglades (it's 50% smaller just because of drainage).
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: bvukich on April 15, 2013, 02:19:50 PM
so what they make scopes....

As always, animal rights activists seem to live on another planet and completely fail to connect to the rest of the world, but certainly the us american public. After all arms manufacturers don't kill, and gun's don't either, it's the people that use them, so if people abuse automatic weapons or scopes it's certainly only the fault of a small minority? But well, here's probably not the place to discuss that in depth.

Anyway, the issue of some with Nikon is that they the lack of differentiation between shooting for re-balancing the wildlife after human impact or general sports hunting of non-endangered species and trophy hunting that is a factor in severely diminishing some animal species in africa (but they sponsor trophy safaris), for example see http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/the-wrong-kind-of-photo-shoot-nikon-in-the-line-of-fire-over-rifle-sights-for-big-game-hunting-8556123.html)

But for some reason or another Nikon doesn't seem to be entirely unaffected by the pressure - they recently re-designed their arms website to exclude shots of happy hunters standing in 19s century pose above capital prey and renamed it from "Nikon Hunting" to "Nikon Sport Optics".

I've been a hunter all my life.  My personal philosophy is that I'll never hunt something that I either can't eat, or isn't a genuine nuisance/threat.  So I would never go trophy hunting, but as long as it's species with a stable population, I'm not opposed to other people doing it.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: bvukich on April 15, 2013, 02:23:51 PM
First, I'm kinda surprised they're not also taking flak from the pushback of the 90% of Americans fed up with the NRA. Their words say this is for hunting game, but it reads much more like a sniper rifle for somebody wanting to take out an entire SWAT team ("pigs") with a single magazine. The veiling, it is very thin.

I can't help but laugh when someone believes that 90% number.

(pro-tip: a survey of 1000 college students asked leading questions is not even remotely representative of the general adult population)
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: TrumpetPower! on April 15, 2013, 02:40:45 PM
First, I'm kinda surprised they're not also taking flak from the pushback of the 90% of Americans fed up with the NRA. Their words say this is for hunting game, but it reads much more like a sniper rifle for somebody wanting to take out an entire SWAT team ("pigs") with a single magazine. The veiling, it is very thin.

I can't help but laugh when someone believes that 90% number.

(pro-tip: a survey of 1000 college students asked leading questions is not even remotely representative of the general adult population)

Well, we're really getting off-topic, now.

But here's a very comprehensive collection of data on surveys about guns. You'll see, very consistently, from every pollster, roughly 90% support for universal background checks.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm (http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm)

You may well oppose universal background checks. But you're not only in a very small minority of Americans, you're in a rather small minority of NRA members.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/04/03/90-percent-of-americans-want-expanded-background-checks-on-guns-why-isnt-this-a-political-slam-dunk/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/04/03/90-percent-of-americans-want-expanded-background-checks-on-guns-why-isnt-this-a-political-slam-dunk/)

And, yet, the NRA is doing everything in its power to prevent universal background checks -- including threatening its own most favored members of Congress if they even allow the matter to come to a vote.

Cheers,

b&
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: bvukich on April 15, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
First, I'm kinda surprised they're not also taking flak from the pushback of the 90% of Americans fed up with the NRA. Their words say this is for hunting game, but it reads much more like a sniper rifle for somebody wanting to take out an entire SWAT team ("pigs") with a single magazine. The veiling, it is very thin.

I can't help but laugh when someone believes that 90% number.

(pro-tip: a survey of 1000 college students asked leading questions is not even remotely representative of the general adult population)

Well, we're really getting off-topic, now.

But here's a very comprehensive collection of data on surveys about guns. You'll see, very consistently, from every pollster, roughly 90% support for universal background checks.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm (http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm)

You may well oppose universal background checks. But you're not only in a very small minority of Americans, you're in a rather small minority of NRA members.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/04/03/90-percent-of-americans-want-expanded-background-checks-on-guns-why-isnt-this-a-political-slam-dunk/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/04/03/90-percent-of-americans-want-expanded-background-checks-on-guns-why-isnt-this-a-political-slam-dunk/)

And, yet, the NRA is doing everything in its power to prevent universal background checks -- including threatening its own most favored members of Congress if they even allow the matter to come to a vote.

Cheers,

b&

This is way off topic, I shouldn't have responded in the first place.

Any other admin feel free to delete the political portion of this thread, my posts included.  Having already participated, I'm biased, and it would be improper for me to take further action.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: Marsu42 on April 15, 2013, 04:40:46 PM
Don't worry about those animals - if the 'scopes are made by Nikon, they will all be out of calibration and aim to the left.
We should keep politics out of the forum - some will prefer they aim to the right.

I generally agree, though the question is where politics begins. For example is talking about lens/camera production, manufacturing standards and worker welfare political (Canon produces in Japan, but is expensive for this reason)? Or is only party politics political?

Anyway, I'm glad CR didn't delete the whole thread right away (and I'd like it to stay it this way, even if it's locked for getting too far off topic): I wanted to know how a general photog crowd would respond to the campaign, and as expected even people who are ok with general hunting but are critical towards trophy hunting and want to preserve endangered species aren't getting the intended message.

Still, I feel if the campaign would be better it'd be not impossible to nudge manufacturer's arms advertisements more in the direction of "remember species preservation", just like alcohol campaigns are conveying "drink responsible" - no matter what the manufacturers think or say behind closed doors.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: brad-man on April 15, 2013, 05:06:01 PM
Those are hogs, and hogs are numerous, and rather a nussance as well, but worse still often a threat to local endangered and threatened populations. I am totally against poaching of threatened species, and totally against wanton destruction. But, some animals NEED to be hunted by man, often especially because we displaced their predators through habitat destruction. Here in Florida, hogs are a severe nuisance, and the laws are actually pretty easy-going about the taking o' hogs. The poster says "Bring home the bacon", so the thought is not some Great White Hunter racking up tons of kills for trophies, but a productive use, potentially, anyway. THere is no reason to be so sensitive about this...

Quite so. I live in S Florida and we are overrun with harmful exotics. We have beautiful  lionfish ravaging our reefs, and all sorts of pythons taking over the Everglades. Both species are pretty much on the "kill on sight" list. Can I put a Nikon scope on a speargun? The diffraction of the water might compensate for the crappy optics...

Agreed about hogs.  They are the number one most destructive non-native animal species out there.  What's number two you ask?  Burmese Pythons?  NOPE!  Feral cats.  Feral cats are less destructive than hogs because they don't destroy habitat like hogs do - but they do kill for fun - daily.  Where are pythons on the "most destructive" list of invasives?  If you believe the media hype - then hundreds of thousands of them are a half a step slither away from killing everything in the US including the human population.  Or, if you're more informed about the issue, have spent any actual time hunting them, and/or know anything about their natural environment and their requirements to survive, then you realize there's only a few thousand of them (max) and they are a very localized problem in South Florida with no ability to spread anywhere else.  They also don't eat or kill much (like cats) and they definitely don't destroy habitat (like hogs).

Need some proof?  How about the month-long FFW SPONSORED Burmese python challenged that happened just recently.  Something like 1600 people had 30 days to capture as many as they could.  How many did they get?  68!!!  If you gave 1600 people 30 days to kill as many hogs or cats as they could, they'd get hundreds and probably more like THOUSANDS!

Don't get me wrong, I'm vehemently opposed to the survival of any non-native species, but we should really inform the general populace that Senator Bill Nelson has fooled them all by making the Burmese Python the "poster child" for non-natives.  The Brazilian Pepper plant, hogs, and yes - even fluffy the cat are FARRRRRR more dangerous to the Everglades (and the rest of the US) than Burmese Pythons.

/end rant


Actually, the most harmful thing out in the glades is Big Sugar. And yes, it was put there by  H. sapiens sapiens...
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: woollybear on April 15, 2013, 05:35:09 PM
politics is merely another word for hypocrisy
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: RLPhoto on April 15, 2013, 10:37:35 PM
This thread is getting alittle too political. As a Texan, I believe UBC is a terrible idea but if it passes, I will respect the law.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: paul13walnut5 on April 17, 2013, 06:54:42 PM
This thread is getting alittle too political. As a Texan, I believe UBC is a terrible idea but if it passes, I will respect the law.

Why does being a Texan come into it?
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: RLPhoto on April 18, 2013, 01:04:49 AM
This thread is getting alittle too political. As a Texan, I believe UBC is a terrible idea but if it passes, I will respect the law.

Why does being a Texan come into it?

Texas is a state that is less restrictive on gun users. Not all states are as open as Texas.
Title: Re: "I am boycotting Nikon" campaign
Post by: bigal1000 on April 19, 2013, 02:25:46 PM
Great looking scope,by the way I thought this was a camera forum not some idiots political rhetoric.