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Gear Talk => Canon General => Topic started by: DCM1024 on April 11, 2013, 11:40:41 PM

Title: Random Thoughts
Post by: DCM1024 on April 11, 2013, 11:40:41 PM
What do you do when....

A photo lab renders a photo that doesn't match your edit?

A client thinks you are a photoshop guru who can make the photo look totally different from what was present. For example, I've had brides want me to change a horses ears from being pricked backward to forward, remove salt shakers from tables, etc. What is appropriate and reasonable in this circumstance? I am a photographer not a photoshop guru.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: siegsAR on April 12, 2013, 01:11:25 AM
If that's me, I'll try another lab right away. :-X

I would distort/warp the ears - content aware, LOL, same for the shakers too. ;D



Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: dmills on April 12, 2013, 03:28:41 AM
As for the photo lab, time to find a new one.

As for the bride, it's all about how you make your agreement with the bride in the first place. If you let people know that you can also do minor edits (such as removing small things, or adjusting small things), there's a separate fee per photo that they'd like to adjust, that will surely cut down on the requests later. That's something that most people would agree to at the beginning (especially if you give examples, like removing exit signs, salt shakers, etc). Later, when they ask, you can remind them of the contract that they signed in the beginning, and let them know that you're more than happy to do it at a set price per photo.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Hesbehindyou on April 12, 2013, 03:58:43 AM
What do you do when....

A photo lab renders a photo that doesn't match your edit?
A client thinks you are a photoshop guru who can make the photo look totally different from what was present.

Calibrate my monitor or speak to the print shop, learn photoshop. You could always pay someone else to do the photoshopping and pass the cost on
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Sporgon on April 12, 2013, 05:01:24 AM
@DCM1024

Here as some ears for you  ;D ( Hope they're the right colour :P  )
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Spooky on April 12, 2013, 08:06:03 AM
@DCM1024

Here as some ears for you  ;D ( Hope they're the right colour :P  )

Haha, very good... or you could always use the salt shakers as the new ears...
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Zv on April 12, 2013, 08:23:48 AM
For the photolab ask them what color profile they use and then save your image with with those settings. For example adobe rgb or srgb whatever. Calibrate your moniter (should be doing this anyway if you are a working pro). Then order a few small test prints and check if they match. If not you could adjust the image to match. For example - print is colder in tone than your screen then just change your white balance. (Its always bloody white balance!).

Also add extra sharpness in post for print.

For picky customers just explain that you're a photographer and those kinda things are not what you do. (You record the scene as it is).

Photoshop is good though for portrait retouching. I would learn that aspect as you might need to remove a zit or two and get rid of bags under eye.

Check out steeletraining.com, Phil Steele has good Photoshop tutorials.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Spooky on April 12, 2013, 08:41:59 AM
For the photolab ask them what color profile they use and then save your image with with those settings. For example adobe rgb or srgb whatever. Calibrate your moniter (should be doing this anyway if you are a working pro). Then order a few small test prints and check if they match. If not you could adjust the image to match. For example - print is colder in tone than your screen then just change your white balance. (Its always bloody white balance!).

Also add extra sharpness in post for print.

For picky customers just explain that you're a photographer and those kinda things are not what you do. (You record the scene as it is).

Photoshop is good though for portrait retouching. I would learn that aspect as you might need to remove a zit or two and get rid of bags under eye.

Good advice... also a good idea to only retouch 'temporary' blemishes on portraits unless the client agrees / requests. You may think straightening someones wonky teeth is a must do but the owner might be proud of them and take offence!
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: dstppy on April 12, 2013, 09:01:21 AM
What do you do when....

A photo lab renders a photo that doesn't match your edit?

A client thinks you are a photoshop guru who can make the photo look totally different from what was present. For example, I've had brides want me to change a horses ears from being pricked backward to forward, remove salt shakers from tables, etc. What is appropriate and reasonable in this circumstance? I am a photographer not a photoshop guru.

Lab: if it IS them, switch.  I always use AdoramaPix with no correction and get what I send in.  I use an iMac that is only calibrated to my eye, and it generally looks fine, but come out too dark because I edit in a dark room (my own fault).  You should be using a lab that has calibrated machines and people that know how to use them . . .

Client: If you don't photoshop, then don't.  You have to set your own standards there.  Alternatively, if you feel you want to accommodate, find a GOOD graphic artist that charges appropriate rates (a lot) and tell them whatever gets quoted.

I personally feel that digital manipulation is a misrepresentation and no longer a photograph and the only post-processing I like on my own work (that I tell people is my work) is something that more closely represents what the eye was able to see (some noise reduction, color correction etc.) -- that's just me.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Don Haines on April 12, 2013, 10:18:24 AM
What do you do when....

A photo lab renders a photo that doesn't match your edit?

A client thinks you are a photoshop guru who can make the photo look totally different from what was present. For example, I've had brides want me to change a horses ears from being pricked backward to forward, remove salt shakers from tables, etc. What is appropriate and reasonable in this circumstance? I am a photographer not a photoshop guru.

It is the digital age, and like it or not people expect us to be able to photoshop images. Everyone knows it can be done, but few realize the balance between time and the degree of manipulation needed. The client needs to understand that there is basic image manipulation (crop, white balance, adjust levels, etc) and that they pay extra (hourly rate?) for advanced manipulation such as changing the horse ears, getting rid of power lines, deleting the EX from the picture..... etc etc.

You can farm the photoshop task out..... You sell the image to the bride and put her in touch with a good photoshopper..... Odds are that when you get a client who starts to get so picky as to want to change the way the horse's ears point that this is a very picky client who will never be satisfied and you are better off letting someone else deal with the endless requests...

As to accurate color rendition.... there is a lot to be said for taking pictures of colour balance cards in the various lighting conditions...... gives you a baseline to start from and something to compare the final print to.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: dstppy on April 12, 2013, 11:33:56 AM
Odds are that when you get a client who starts to get so picky as to want to change the way the horse's ears point that this is a very picky client who will never be satisfied and you are better off letting someone else deal with the endless requests...

"Hey man, it's YOUR horse, why didn't you tell him to change his ear position?"

Anyone with expectations that high should have more control over their lives :D
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Pieces Of E on April 12, 2013, 12:09:47 PM
Make sure the color space on your computer matches the color space you're using in your cameras. Also make sure the color space in your editing software matches all the above as well. For instance, we use Adobe RGB 1998 in our 7D's and have our D.P.P., Lightroom, Elements as well as our computer monitor's color spaces match. Then, as everyone has said, if you're not happy with your lab, try another one.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 12, 2013, 12:16:20 PM
What do you do when....

A photo lab renders a photo that doesn't match your edit?
 
You need to provide them with a file that matches their printer profile.  They should make a copy of the profile available. Start Here:   http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/profiles.htm (http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/profiles.htm)

A client thinks you are a photoshop guru who can make the photo look totally different from what was present. For example, I've had brides want me to change a horses ears from being pricked backward to forward, remove salt shakers from tables, etc. What is appropriate and reasonable in this circumstance? I am a photographer not a photoshop guru.

Those things are commonly done in photoshop.  You might hire someone to do it, or learn.  However, unless you do that type of thing frequently, its not likely worth the effort of learning it. Its common to move eyes apart or closer, to make a face look better, or make a nose smaller. :)    
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: iMagic on April 12, 2013, 01:21:37 PM
The customer is always right...... even if they are not.

You need to do or say anything as long as it makes the customer happy.

Failure to do so will not get you any referrals.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: RGF on April 12, 2013, 02:16:09 PM
I would check with the lab and see what happened.  Did they make an error?  Was it your fault?  Or are you expectations out of line?  If the latter I would find a new lab.

As far as the client goes, how many changes and how large are they?  Did you tell her you could do these (or even implied that they would be done)?  Did you layout charges for larger edits?  HOw important is the client (implication if you charge and she is unhappy how bad will that hurt your business)?  If it is sort of your fault (or could be construed as the bride has reasonable expectations, do them or get them done and learn from this encounter).  Next time be clearer about what will be delivered at what price.
Title: Re: Random Thoughts
Post by: Krob78 on April 12, 2013, 11:46:51 PM
What do you do when....

A photo lab renders a photo that doesn't match your edit?
 
You need to provide them with a file that matches their printer profile.  They should make a copy of the profile available. Start Here:   http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/profiles.htm (http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/profiles.htm)

A client thinks you are a photoshop guru who can make the photo look totally different from what was present. For example, I've had brides want me to change a horses ears from being pricked backward to forward, remove salt shakers from tables, etc. What is appropriate and reasonable in this circumstance? I am a photographer not a photoshop guru.

Those things are commonly done in photoshop.  You might hire someone to do it, or learn.  However, unless you do that type of thing frequently, its not likely worth the effort of learning it. Its common to move eyes apart or closer, to make a face look better, or make a nose smaller. :)  
Agreed!  In my workflow I commonly will hit blemishes, possibly lighten up the bags or wrinkles and that's it.  I do additional editing for my clients and discuss it up front.  If they are wanting roads removed or wires, chairs, people or anything else, fixing teeth and the such, they know right up front that they will incur a charge of $100 per hour for the extra editing requirements. 

If they know they want it upfront, it is a part of my contract with them.  If they don't decide until the day of the shoot, I always have a short amendment to the contract with me or I write it in and we all initial it on the original contract that I take to the shoot with me...

If they really want the editing, they always pay for it.  Sometimes they will ask if I can give them a better deal, like $50 per hour.  I'll generally bend... but I'll always charge for it!  ;D