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Gear Talk => Reviews => Topic started by: GuyL on April 12, 2013, 07:05:22 AM

Title: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: GuyL on April 12, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
I am an amateur photographer that spends most of my free time trying to shoot wildlife... I currently have a 50D that I use primarily with a 400mm F5.6L lens, but will on occassion also go to 70-200 F2.8L

I have been waiting for the new Canon 7D2 to come out later this year, thinking that for my purposes it would make the most sense to stay with an APS-C sensor... but the more I read about the 5D3, the more I question if I should not act now...

Typically i find with the pictures I take, i will shoot nothing over ISO400 as i find the noise too much with the 50D.... and i am sure that with either the 7D2 or 5D3 - i would have much more range in terms of ISO...

In terms of cropping, I will often crop a photo to no more than 50%, as i find going more than that will affect the quality of the photo... again, I believe that with either of the 7D2 or 5D3, i would like be able to crop to a higher percentage...

I guess my big concern is that shooting with an APS-C camera and 400mm lens, that going to the 5D3, will not allow me to crop in to as tight a shot as I am currently doing....

And help or suggestions would be appreciated...
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: neuroanatomist on April 12, 2013, 07:15:57 AM
Tough decision to make before a 7DII is announced. Even then, there's no guarantee the high ISO performance for RAW shooting will be significantly improved.  I preferred to keep my 7D at ISO 800 or lower.  I prefer to keep my 1D X (and the 5DIII would be the same) at ISO 6400 or lower.  A 7DII might add a stop, but almost certainly not three. 

As for cropping, what's your output?  If printing large, more pixels on target helps, so APS-C is an advantage at low ISO.  If printing small (12x18 for example) or for web, etc., cropped FF is equivalent at low ISO, better at high ISO.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: LewisShermer on April 12, 2013, 08:38:10 AM
As a 7Dii doesn't exist then it shouldn't come into the equation.

Does your 50D do the job? = don't need a new camera

Do you need a new camera right now? = 7D for extra 400iso points or 5D for the grandure as they both exist.

Do you want to wait for the newest bestest crop sensor from canon? = wait to see what the 7Dii has to offer

I'd buy a 2nd hand 7D body in your position though and wait for the future to come at its own pace.

(I did plunge for the 5Diii when I had a 7D though mainly for shallower DoF and higher ISO when working in-doors)
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: pdirestajr on April 12, 2013, 09:05:41 AM
The 5D mkIV will be even more amazing.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: joshlsmithphoto on April 12, 2013, 11:11:02 AM
I would absolutely go with the 5D3 (I have this camera).  There are more benefits to using a full frame; better bokah, usually higher resolution, usable images up to ISO 12800/25600 - allowing you to maximize your shutter speed.  If you can find a deal, I would buy the 5D3 and the Canon 1.4x Extender II (approx $200), you'll loose 1 stop of light with the extender, but it is usually ok to boost your ISO by a stop if you're shooting a 5D3. You'll also gain quality in your out of focus blur/bokah on a full frame vs a cropped sensor camera. 

As far as the 7D2... I'm hearing a lot of things about this camera, but you may not know any of the true specs until later this year.  I'm expecting it to have the same sensor/lowlight performance as you'd see in the T5i (maybe just slightly better), but no where near the performance of the 5D3. 

I also own the Canon 6D.  This is not a good choice if you value high performance and adequate focus - much better than your 50D, but not worthy as an "upgrade".  I'm constantly switching back to my 5D3 because of my 6D's poor focusing ability outside of using the center AF point.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: RLPhoto on April 12, 2013, 11:38:46 AM
I waited years for the 5d3 release and shot on a 5Dc until that happened. Once I got it, I'm satisfied with using it until it dies. No regrets, and if you can wait, cameras only get cheaper.  ;)
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 12, 2013, 12:20:16 PM
Another option to consider is a used 1D MK IV.  Supurb for wildlife, and has a slight 1.3 crop sensor.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: Kernuak on April 12, 2013, 12:43:07 PM
Another question to ask yourself. How good is your fieldcraft and are you able to get closer without scaring the subject or falling into water etc.? If you can get closer, then it's a no brainer, if not, then it's a tough decision. I kept my 7D for the extra reach and will go to ISO 1600 (some scenes ISO 800), but I found that when I used the 5D MkIII in low light last October, the 7D never came out of the bag again for the rest of the week, because the image quality and AF was so much better. For travelling, the 5D MkIII certainly gives you more flexibility when travelling light.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: K-amps on April 12, 2013, 01:23:04 PM
I'd get the 5D iii. The IQ on it makes up for some lost reach. If 400mm is ok for you, then you are not really focal length limited it seems. TC's can make up for it.

If you ever need a lot more reach and you are on a tight budget... a POS Superzoom can come in handy e.g. the SX50 (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/canon_sx_50_review.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/canon_sx_50_review.shtml)) costs less than $400 and the IQ is not bad...

The 35m equivalent  range is 24mm to 1200mm...  all optical.

The 5diii is very versatile also. The 7D kills it in FPS (as will the 7d2) but the ability to have great high ISO (and thereby fast shutter speed) is what you will get with the 5d3.

Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: neuroanatomist on April 12, 2013, 01:30:05 PM
The 5diii is very versatile also. The 7D kills it in FPS (as will the 7d2) but the ability to have great high ISO (and thereby fast shutter speed) is what you will get with the 5d3.

FWIW, I've heard from multiple reliable sources that the better AF system of the 5DIII 'compensates' for the loss of 2 fps compared to the 7D - i.e., the keeper rate is about the same.  I do know that the keeper rate on my 1D X is higher than the 7D (and the fps is higher, too - makes for more work sorting through a whole bunch of tack-sharp images  ;) ).
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: East Wind Photography on April 12, 2013, 01:45:08 PM
5DIII is much quieter than the 1DX.  To be honest, I can crop deeper with the 5DIII due to the lower noise as well as the higher MP.  Of course the closer you get to full frame, the higher you can ramp up the ISO.

I cannot speak for the 7D2 and no one else here can as well.  I was one who bought the 5DIII when it was first released and while everyone else was waiting for the price to come down, I was out shooting awesome wildlife shots.  So my opinion is get the 5DIII and take fantastic pictures.  It could be quite some time before the 7DII is released and has proven itself as a quantum leap in technology or simply a new 7D with a mark II label on it.

The 5diii is very versatile also. The 7D kills it in FPS (as will the 7d2) but the ability to have great high ISO (and thereby fast shutter speed) is what you will get with the 5d3.

FWIW, I've heard from multiple reliable sources that the better AF system of the 5DIII 'compensates' for the loss of 2 fps compared to the 7D - i.e., the keeper rate is about the same.  I do know that the keeper rate on my 1D X is higher than the 7D (and the fps is higher, too - makes for more work sorting through a whole bunch of tack-sharp images  ;) ).
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: East Wind Photography on April 12, 2013, 01:59:34 PM
I commonly shoot wildlife with the 5DIII around ISO 1600 to 2000.  Higher if I dont have enough light.  I shoot around F7.1 when I can and usually push 2 to 3 EV and pull it back down in photoshop.  Sometimes I cant push that high and have to back down or risk blowing out highlights.

As far as cropping goes, I can crop way deeper than when I used the 7D.  With the lower noise and higher MP, I dont miss the 1.6X loss by going to FF.  You dont gain anything by using APS-C format when standing it up against the 5DIII.

I am an amateur photographer that spends most of my free time trying to shoot wildlife... I currently have a 50D that I use primarily with a 400mm F5.6L lens, but will on occassion also go to 70-200 F2.8L

I have been waiting for the new Canon 7D2 to come out later this year, thinking that for my purposes it would make the most sense to stay with an APS-C sensor... but the more I read about the 5D3, the more I question if I should not act now...

Typically i find with the pictures I take, i will shoot nothing over ISO400 as i find the noise too much with the 50D.... and i am sure that with either the 7D2 or 5D3 - i would have much more range in terms of ISO...

In terms of cropping, I will often crop a photo to no more than 50%, as i find going more than that will affect the quality of the photo... again, I believe that with either of the 7D2 or 5D3, i would like be able to crop to a higher percentage...

I guess my big concern is that shooting with an APS-C camera and 400mm lens, that going to the 5D3, will not allow me to crop in to as tight a shot as I am currently doing....

And help or suggestions would be appreciated...
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: K-amps on April 12, 2013, 02:26:40 PM
The 5diii is very versatile also. The 7D kills it in FPS (as will the 7d2) but the ability to have great high ISO (and thereby fast shutter speed) is what you will get with the 5d3.

FWIW, I've heard from multiple reliable sources that the better AF system of the 5DIII 'compensates' for the loss of 2 fps compared to the 7D - i.e., the keeper rate is about the same.  I do know that the keeper rate on my 1D X is higher than the 7D (and the fps is higher, too - makes for more work sorting through a whole bunch of tack-sharp images  ;) ).

I wish I had some of your "Photo" related dilemma's John.  ;)
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: jthomson on April 12, 2013, 04:11:15 PM
I was shooting with the T1i which I believe has  the same sensor as your 50D. The 400mm f5.6 is my usual lens.
I restricted my ISO to 800 and did som noise reduction in post.

I got tired of waiting for the 7D II and got a 5D3 just before christmas.  I now typicaly shot with  the 400mm f5.6 and the Kenko 300 DGX 1.4x  and go up to ISO 3200, typically without needing noise reduction.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: vscd on April 14, 2013, 04:57:43 AM
I'll wait for a new bunch of sensors, hopefully arriving this year. I don't need more pushed ISO, but a closing gap in dynamic range compared to Nikon. And I don't see any reasons why I ever should use a Crop-Cam instead of a Full Frame.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: Jmanc on April 27, 2013, 08:04:44 PM
I have a 7D and love it but as others have said, the 7DII isn't even out yet nor is it even on the near horizon; I'd spring for the 5DIII.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: BrandonKing96 on April 27, 2013, 08:57:57 PM
I apologise if I sound rude or sarcastic, but you are asking whether you should be an existing camera, or one that doesn't exist yet. 
The 5D3 is an amazing camera and you wouldn't regret buying it.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on April 27, 2013, 09:42:38 PM
I am an amateur photographer that spends most of my free time trying to shoot wildlife... I currently have a 50D that I use primarily with a 400mm F5.6L lens, but will on occassion also go to 70-200 F2.8L

I have been waiting for the new Canon 7D2 to come out later this year, thinking that for my purposes it would make the most sense to stay with an APS-C sensor... but the more I read about the 5D3, the more I question if I should not act now...

Typically i find with the pictures I take, i will shoot nothing over ISO400 as i find the noise too much with the 50D.... and i am sure that with either the 7D2 or 5D3 - i would have much more range in terms of ISO...

In terms of cropping, I will often crop a photo to no more than 50%, as i find going more than that will affect the quality of the photo... again, I believe that with either of the 7D2 or 5D3, i would like be able to crop to a higher percentage...

I guess my big concern is that shooting with an APS-C camera and 400mm lens, that going to the 5D3, will not allow me to crop in to as tight a shot as I am currently doing....

And help or suggestions would be appreciated...

Since you do wildlife so much I might wait for the 7D2. I used to have a 7D and 5D2 but sold both for a 5D3. 5D3 is much better than the 7D when I am NOT reach limited but it's definitely WORSE 95% of the time when I am reach limited (yes even shooting at ISO1600+ unless the bird is really, really dark in coloration and it falls in a really dark part of the frame). My 7D was universally better for wildlife than my 5D2 had been (when wildlife compared at the same scale the 7D had less artifacts and even a hint less noise; when compared each at 100% scale the 7D had more noise, a touch less artifacts and a lot more detail).

If you tend to get close enough to wildlife than you could more than fill an APS_C frame and could frame as you wish at FF then the 5D3 would be definitely the better bet though (this isn't very common for wildlife, certainly not for birds, maybe for zoos or big stuff like deer that lets you get close or shooting things from blinds and such).
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on April 27, 2013, 09:44:12 PM
I would absolutely go with the 5D3 (I have this camera).  There are more benefits to using a full frame; better bokah, usually higher resolution, usable images up to ISO 12800/25600 - allowing you to maximize your shutter speed.  If you can find a deal, I would buy the 5D3 and the Canon 1.4x Extender II (approx $200), you'll loose 1 stop of light with the extender, but it is usually ok to boost your ISO by a stop if you're shooting a 5D3. You'll also gain quality in your out of focus blur/bokah on a full frame vs a cropped sensor camera. 


Yeah but he said he shoot almost nothing but wildlife, unless he shoots from blinds all the time or with bait and so on....
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on April 27, 2013, 09:46:38 PM
The 5diii is very versatile also. The 7D kills it in FPS (as will the 7d2) but the ability to have great high ISO (and thereby fast shutter speed) is what you will get with the 5d3.

FWIW, I've heard from multiple reliable sources that the better AF system of the 5DIII 'compensates' for the loss of 2 fps compared to the 7D - i.e., the keeper rate is about the same.  I do know that the keeper rate on my 1D X is higher than the 7D (and the fps is higher, too - makes for more work sorting through a whole bunch of tack-sharp images  ;) ).

I don't find that to be the case for wildlife (where the 5D3 actually seems to be very jumpy with objects that don't move much in AI Servo) or surfing (where the 7D AF actually seems to do fully as well) but it appears to be the case (or more) with soccer and football where the 7D AF seems to get dodgy a lot of the time and do no better than a 50D at times.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: RGF on April 27, 2013, 10:56:51 PM
Wait for the 7D M2.  Maybe this year, or could be next.  And after comes out, why not wait for the 7DM3 or perhaps the 5DM4.  The latter may have a crop mode (you heard it here first).

Waiting came can lead to doing nothing.  What is your deadline?  Why upgrade, do you have shoots you want but can not get?  Or is this simply a hobbit and a new camera is something you would like to have (dear I say lust over).  The latter is my situtation (so I am able to buy equipment as my budget allows and my heart desires - I don't need to decided based upon business ROI).

Personally I would buy now - enjoy the camera while you can.  You may find that it works great in your hands - in which case you have enjoyed it rather than waiting and second guessing yourself.  In the end, if you find need the APS-C sensor, you can add a second body or sell the 5DM3 and get the 7DM2 or 70D or what ever the model number is.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: BrandonKing96 on April 29, 2013, 03:22:46 AM
Wait for the 7D M2.  Maybe this year, or could be next.  And after comes out, why not wait for the 7DM3 or perhaps the 5DM4.  The latter may have a crop mode (you heard it here first).

Waiting came can lead to doing nothing.  What is your deadline?  Why upgrade, do you have shoots you want but can not get?  Or is this simply a hobbit and a new camera is something you would like to have (dear I say lust over).  The latter is my situtation (so I am able to buy equipment as my budget allows and my heart desires - I don't need to decided based upon business ROI).

Personally I would buy now - enjoy the camera while you can.  You may find that it works great in your hands - in which case you have enjoyed it rather than waiting and second guessing yourself.  In the end, if you find need the APS-C sensor, you can add a second body or sell the 5DM3 and get the 7DM2 or 70D or what ever the model number is.
There's no point waiting that long! The 5D III just came out last year and the 7D2 is yet to come so it will take years until those come.
But yes, just buy what you can now :)
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: Canon-F1 on April 29, 2013, 07:29:30 AM
when you ask such a question you don´t need a new camera.

if you would need a new camera you HAD to buy a existing camera.

so as you obviously have time to decide.. wait for the 7D MK2 and make a decision after you know the facts.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: Dylan777 on April 29, 2013, 09:18:48 AM
I apologise if I sound rude or sarcastic, but you are asking whether you should be an existing camera, or one that doesn't exist yet. 
The 5D3 is an amazing camera and you wouldn't regret buying it.

+1 with BrandonKing96 - rumor 7D 2 might have faster frame rate than 5D III, but will never out perform 5D III indoor shots.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: East Wind Photography on April 29, 2013, 09:27:08 AM
Interesting how many posters here are rating the performance of a camera on features that don't exist yet. 

No one can make a claim that the 7D2 will be better or worse than any other model.  Show us some facts on how you base your claim and we will listen.  So far there are no facts, only unsubstantiated rumors that anyone could make up.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: expatinasia on April 29, 2013, 09:30:09 AM
Unless you absolutely must buy now, then you lose nothing waiting for a while. The 50D is a very good camera, and if it still works well, then wait. The 7D II is a very interesting rumour, but none of us really know what the final product will be like, nor how much it will cost, or even how it will compare to the 5D Mark III.

So, unless you have some paid jobs in the next few months that you feel you cannot do with your current gear, then just sit it out for a while and see what Canon brings to the table.

Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: 20Dave on April 29, 2013, 09:41:10 AM
I am an amateur photographer that spends most of my free time trying to shoot wildlife... I currently have a 50D that I use primarily with a 400mm F5.6L lens, but will on occassion also go to 70-200 F2.8L

I have been waiting for the new Canon 7D2 to come out later this year, thinking that for my purposes it would make the most sense to stay with an APS-C sensor... but the more I read about the 5D3, the more I question if I should not act now...

Typically i find with the pictures I take, i will shoot nothing over ISO400 as i find the noise too much with the 50D.... and i am sure that with either the 7D2 or 5D3 - i would have much more range in terms of ISO...

In terms of cropping, I will often crop a photo to no more than 50%, as i find going more than that will affect the quality of the photo... again, I believe that with either of the 7D2 or 5D3, i would like be able to crop to a higher percentage...

I guess my big concern is that shooting with an APS-C camera and 400mm lens, that going to the 5D3, will not allow me to crop in to as tight a shot as I am currently doing....

And help or suggestions would be appreciated...

My recommendation - go with the 5D3. That's what I did.

This sounds almost exactly like my situation a few weeks ago, except that my camera was a 20D (my lenses are 400mm f/5.6 and 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS). I was going to wait for the 7D2 but decided to go with the 5D3. Instead of getting the *apparent* 1.6x with the crop, I got an optical 1.4x with a Kenko 1.4X PRO 300 Teleconverter DGX. The Kenko is wired such that it allows the 5D3 to focus with the 400mm + 1.4x converter before the new firmware upgrade even though the EXIF says that the image was taken at f/8. And it focused incredibly fast. Here are a few images that I took with the 5D3 + 400mm f/5.6 + 1.4x. The camera's high ISO performance means that I can leave the shutter at 1/2000 to minimize blur, even at f/8.

http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v93/p1562235064.jpg (http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v93/p1562235064.jpg)

http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v95/p1562235016.jpg (http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v95/p1562235016.jpg)

http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v85/p1562235082.jpg (http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v85/p1562235082.jpg)

Good luck with your decision, there probably isn't a "wrong" decision between the two.

Dave

Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: East Wind Photography on April 29, 2013, 09:59:44 AM
You made a good choice.  Nothing wrong with the 5D3.  I will likely also get a 7D2 but I can wait because I already have a 5D3.  The 7D2 will be just a backup/2nd body on shoots.  Or if it turns out to be good enough, maybe the 5D3 will become the 2nd.  I was considering a 7D but decided I can wait and let my $$$ earn some more interest.

Easy for me to do since I already have a 5D3.  ;)  I got the 5D3 when it first came out mainly because I needed something immediately and couldn't wait.  It was a good choice then.  I was out shooting great photos while everyone else was waiting for the price to come down.

So as you pointed out just buy what you need now or if you can wait, just wait and see what the options are later in the year.  no need to make a hasty decision unless it means losing business.


I am an amateur photographer that spends most of my free time trying to shoot wildlife... I currently have a 50D that I use primarily with a 400mm F5.6L lens, but will on occassion also go to 70-200 F2.8L

I have been waiting for the new Canon 7D2 to come out later this year, thinking that for my purposes it would make the most sense to stay with an APS-C sensor... but the more I read about the 5D3, the more I question if I should not act now...

Typically i find with the pictures I take, i will shoot nothing over ISO400 as i find the noise too much with the 50D.... and i am sure that with either the 7D2 or 5D3 - i would have much more range in terms of ISO...

In terms of cropping, I will often crop a photo to no more than 50%, as i find going more than that will affect the quality of the photo... again, I believe that with either of the 7D2 or 5D3, i would like be able to crop to a higher percentage...

I guess my big concern is that shooting with an APS-C camera and 400mm lens, that going to the 5D3, will not allow me to crop in to as tight a shot as I am currently doing....

And help or suggestions would be appreciated...

My recommendation - go with the 5D3. That's what I did.

This sounds almost exactly like my situation a few weeks ago, except that my camera was a 20D (my lenses are 400mm f/5.6 and 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS). I was going to wait for the 7D2 but decided to go with the 5D3. Instead of getting the *apparent* 1.6x with the crop, I got an optical 1.4x with a Kenko 1.4X PRO 300 Teleconverter DGX. The Kenko is wired such that it allows the 5D3 to focus with the 400mm + 1.4x converter before the new firmware upgrade even though the EXIF says that the image was taken at f/8. And it focused incredibly fast. Here are a few images that I took with the 5D3 + 400mm f/5.6 + 1.4x. The camera's high ISO performance means that I can leave the shutter at 1/2000 to minimize blur, even at f/8.

http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v93/p1562235064.jpg (http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v93/p1562235064.jpg)

http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v95/p1562235016.jpg (http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s9/v95/p1562235016.jpg)

http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v85/p1562235082.jpg (http://bartolini.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v85/p1562235082.jpg)

Good luck with your decision, there probably isn't a "wrong" decision between the two.

Dave
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: RGF on May 07, 2013, 11:29:10 PM
Given the latest rumor that the 7D M2 will not be out till next year, are you still tempted to wait.

Get the best camera you can and enjoy it.
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: Olivier11986 on May 17, 2013, 09:38:24 AM
As many others have stated, the 7DII isn't even announced yet and may not be this year. I am in a similar position as yours right now and what made me decide to buy a 5DIII (should pull the trigger today :P) is that when I look back at the bird pictures I took, the best ones were taken when I was really close to the bird. In that case, I don't think I'll miss the 1.6 crop. But then again, maybe my 60D focussing abilities were not that great and that may be why I didn't get great pictures when the subject was far away.
I still need to get people's thoughts about 6D vs 5DIII focus speed though as I went to the store with my 100-400L to test both cameras and the focus speed was clearly better on the 6D. Then again, some AF options may have been “off” since I don’t know them all because I don’t think 6D would focus faster.
Good luck in your decision!
Title: Re: 7D2 or 5D3?
Post by: Olivier11986 on May 17, 2013, 09:41:09 AM
Also got tired of waiting for rumors and cameras that only have fictionnal specs. If ever the 7DII is that good you could always resell your 5DIII and I don't think you'll have to spend that much money to compensate (Unless the 7DII comes out at 3K or more, who knows)