canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => Third Party Manufacturers => Topic started by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 12, 2013, 04:59:20 PM

Title: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 12, 2013, 04:59:20 PM
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.
 
I think I'll wait for a new backup body and see what the year brings.  I just bought my 6th 40D this week, its great for my product photography, but isn't capable of ISO 6400 or 12800.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Skulker on April 12, 2013, 05:44:38 PM
A photographer who I hold in high regard, got rid of his D800's very quickly. He much prefers the D600 and produces great results from the D600. (he still uses the D4, and has nothing against Nikons and, for the record,  neither do I)
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Malte_P on April 12, 2013, 06:10:07 PM
D800 cost 2260 euro here compared to 2979 euro for the 5D MK3 (both on amazon).
so the D800 price is not bad.

thought you need very good glass and you have to use a tripod to make best use of the 36 MP.

if you are a lazy handholding shooter and don´t want to spend so much money for the best glass you are better served with a D600. i think many notice that after a while.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: rumorzmonger on April 12, 2013, 06:10:54 PM
I wouldn't touch a used one with a 10-foot pole... the reason the prices are so low is that everyone else has figured that out, too.

Most of them are being sold because of the persistent AF-alignment problems.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 12, 2013, 10:22:32 PM
Having had one, its a fine camera, but, as noted, even with high end Nikon Glass, its is difficult to get the resolution that the body can provide.
 
Calling users that have to capture quick images of a fleeting scene "Lazy" shows a lack of understanding how some photographers must work. 
 
Calling me "Lazy" is probably correct, but even so, I sometimes only have a fraction of a second to capture the right moment.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 01:32:43 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: J.R. on April 13, 2013, 01:36:33 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Albi86 on April 13, 2013, 03:11:52 AM
I believe many people going from D700 to D800 where kinda overwhelmed by the transition from 12 to 36 MP.

A higher pixel density requires a different handling. When people keep using the same glass as before and doing things in the same way as before, results can be disappointing. It's no camera for a "run&gun" style - many D700 users switched to the 5D3 for this reason. Same is true for the computer hardware in post-processing. This is why a transition to D600's 24MP is often softer and more manageable.

Another possibility is that people are happy enough with the cheaper, lighter, D600. I have one and I seriously can't complain about a thing (except the 1/4000s max shutter speed). Things that the D600 lacks of, the D800 does too. I believe many people find the D600 + D7100 combo overall more effective than the D800 alone.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 03:38:39 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Albi86 on April 13, 2013, 03:47:37 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.

I would add: and considers them BEFORE purchasing something ;)
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: J.R. on April 13, 2013, 03:49:32 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.

There is no law which bars you from shooting with 36mp, but you do have speed limits so your example of cars is rather misplaced and as good as comparing apples and oranges.

BTW, If you read my comment again, i was not in any way implying that a 5D3 would suit people better (even though it might, actually ;)) ...my point was that most buyers opted for the d800 mostly for the higher MP it offered. THAT objective is rather lost if you wish to shoot it at the d600 resolution which is available for substantially less $$$.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: J.R. on April 13, 2013, 03:53:18 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.

I would add: and considers them BEFORE purchasing something ;)

Agreed, but in the case of the d800 there was so much euphoria with the uberpixelsand DR it had, nobody bothered to consider lens performance.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 04:22:16 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.

I would add: and considers them BEFORE purchasing something ;)
Of course!
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 04:42:19 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.
your example of cars is rather misplaced and as good as comparing apples and oranges.
No!
There are roads that allow you to drive at 240kmps ... but most cars (with a max limit of 240kmps per hour) would rattle and shake making the drive extremely unpleasant, if you were to drive them at their max speed limits ... I speak from personal experience as I drive a Mazda 3 & a SsangYong Kyron, the speedometer on both have an approx max limit of 240 kmps but even on a road/track where I am allowed to drive at their max speed the drive is extremely unpleasant ... even though the stated max speed limit is 240kms, the tires I have can only handle 160kms, the same applies to many cameras/lenses i.e. max limits are not always enjoyable or useful. So the examples of cars are not "misplaced" and nor are they like "comparing apples and oranges".
BTW, If you read my comment again, i was not in any way implying that a 5D3 would suit people better
I did not think you were "implying that a 5D3 would suit people better", I only used that as an example.
Peace
my point was that most buyers opted for the d800 mostly for the higher MP it offered. THAT objective is rather lost if you wish to shoot it at the d600 resolution which is available for substantially less $$$.
Not necessarily, D800 can be shot at 24MP for those who currently do not have high end glass ... but when they do upgrade to better glass they can take advantage of its full 36MP resolution ... besides the difference in cost between a D600 and D800 is around $600 ... as Mt Spokane Photography stated that several D800 cameras are available for around $2200, that brings down the difference even further.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 05:31:44 AM
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.

Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?
All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Canon-F1 on April 13, 2013, 05:35:22 AM
Quote from: Mt Spokane Photography link=topic=14172.msg256222#msg256222
Calling users that have to capture quick images of a fleeting scene "Lazy" shows a lack of understanding how some photographers must work. 
 

it takes more effort to get the maximum quality from the D800.
and when you buy the D800 and do not work the way, that you get the best images, you are either lazy or have bought the wrong camera.

that´s what he wrote.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 05:36:22 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.

why f-16 ?
DDOF for landscape work
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 05:42:49 AM
I don't know why people are "dumping" them bcoz of the "problem" stated here ... but it's funny that a similar post on Nikonrumors showed up about Canon 5D MK III ... I think it's more of a perception rather than fact ... while its true that D800 needs high end glass at 36MP, one can still use mid range lenses on D800 at lower resolutions (24MP etc) to get great images while handholding.

Wouldn't that defeat the entire objective of buying a D800 in the first place?
No it does not.
I have a 16-35 f/2.8 L lens, but the vast majority of the pics taken are at f/16.
Most cars, in the country I currently live in, can do 240kms per hour, but no one ever drives over 140kms.
Canon cameras/lenses are my primary source of photography but I also use a Nikon D7000 & 18-300 VR lens as it comes in very handy at times but that does not mean it defeats the purpose of having a 5D MK III.
If someone already has several Nikkor lenses, D800 at a price point that is much below 5D MK III makes a lot of sense ... if one shoots at 24MP, the D800 gives similar high ISO performance (if not better) of 5D MK III.
People who "dump" D800 bcoz their mid range Nikkor lenses cannot handle resolutions at 36MP, don't know much about how to use their equipment. Every single Camera/lens has some drawback, a good photographer works around those drawbacks and concentrates on taking advantage of its strengths.

why f-16 ?
DDOF for landscape work

you lose a lot in contrast and resolution with 16, is not 8-11enough
No I do not "lose a lot in contrast and resolution with 16" ... for my work f/8 - f/11 is not enough
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Malte_P on April 13, 2013, 06:20:37 AM
i think we don´t speak about the average joe shooter here who buys a 2500$+ camera and is using P mode?

sure such people exist... as pensioners exist who buy fast cars only to drive them at 80 km/h max.   :)

many DSLR owners would be better served with a P&S camera, because they use them as P&S camera anyway.
 
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: psolberg on April 13, 2013, 07:32:20 AM
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/04/canon-usa-rebates-starting-april-14-2013-cr3/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/04/canon-usa-rebates-starting-april-14-2013-cr3/)
Quote
Canon USA will start a new rebate program on April 14, 2013. Expect more lenses and camera bodies to be on the rebate program this time around. You can also expect big savings on the EOS 5D Mark III.

oh no, canon is DUMPING 5DmkIII's!!!  ;)

There isn't any more dumping of D800's than there is of canon 5DmkIIIs. people are always selling and adjusting, and there is always somebody who doesn't like any given one camera. And while it is true that some D800's were originally affected by a focus issue, the vast majority aren't. Plus the d800 remains massively popular, probably far more than just about any Nikon body of their current generation. for every negative opinion, there are 10 hugely positive ones. Heck, it even took the crown position as the best Nikon dslr in Thom Hogan's poll regardless of last year's technical troubles that were since corrected.

Yet I'm all for price drops, I need to pick up at least a backup for my current one after switching my two 5DmkII's and glass, plus I think it will put added pressure to the 5DmkIII to keep dropping in price.

I expect that until canon doesn't introduce its own 30+mp body, the people stuck with one system will remain in denial of the benefits of very large MP, and unable (or unwilling) understand why the D800 remains the top dog for some of us that value its unmatched resolution, DR, and clean shadows. But given a canon high MP release, they will change their tune soon enough as they usually do. Stockholm syndrome? Sadly, not exclusive to canon users as every week we see a negative post on some competitor at some other board. It seems every week there is a new D800 FUD post matched with a 5DmkIII FUD post. get a job people! ::)

Either way, ALL cameras DROP in value. Anybody on the fence for a D800 should love a price cut. It is already a deal for 2800 with the rebates.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 13, 2013, 07:39:42 AM
http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/04/canon-usa-rebates-starting-april-14-2013-cr3/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/04/canon-usa-rebates-starting-april-14-2013-cr3/)
Quote
Canon USA will start a new rebate program on April 14, 2013. Expect more lenses and camera bodies to be on the rebate program this time around. You can also expect big savings on the EOS 5D Mark III.

oh no, canon is DUMPING 5DmkIII's!!!  ;)

There isn't any more dumping of D800's than there is of canon 5DmkIIIs. people are always selling and adjusting, and there is always somebody who doesn't like any given one camera. And while it is true that some D800's were originally affected by a focus issue, the vast majority aren't. Plus the d800 remains massively popular, probably far more than just about any Nikon body of their current generation. for every negative opinion, there are 10 hugely positive ones. Heck, it even took the crown position as the best Nikon dslr in Thom Hogan's poll regardless of last year's technical troubles that were since corrected.

Yet I'm all for price drops, I need to pick up at least a backup for my current one after switching my two 5DmkII's and glass, plus I think it will put added pressure to the 5DmkIII to keep dropping in price.

I expect that until canon doesn't introduce its own 30+mp body, the people stuck with one system will remain in denial of the benefits of very large MP, and unable (or unwilling) understand why the D800 remains the top dog for some of us that value its unmatched resolution, DR, and clean shadows. But given a canon high MP release, they will change their tune soon enough as they usually do. Stockholm syndrome? Sadly, not exclusive to canon users as every week we see a negative post on some competitor at some other board. It seems every week there is a new D800 FUD post matched with a 5DmkIII FUD post. get a job people! ::)

Either way, ALL cameras DROP in value. Anybody on the fence for a D800 should love a price cut. It is already a deal for 2800 with the rebates.
Well said
Not long ago, Nikon D700 fan boys used to bad mouth 5D MK II bcoz it was way too many pixels ... when Nikon ups the pixel count with D800, the Canon 5D MK III fan boys say the same thing which Nikon D700 fan boys used to say ... to me both cameras are excellent in what they were designed to do.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: EchoLocation on April 13, 2013, 10:21:22 AM
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.

Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?
All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.
Just to clear things up a little? where and when have you seen a D800 at $2349? The only time i've seen that price is a one time deal on Refurbished D800's.  I don't think i've ever seen a D800 new for less than $2800, while i've seen the 5DIII at under $3000 many times.
From my experience, I think it's pretty clear that Canon plays the high MSRP/Future discounts game much more aggressively than Nikon does.... at least in the past few years.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Wilmark on April 13, 2013, 11:38:42 AM
Interesting thread. However its obvious that there are many fanboys (on either side) whose contribution takes away from the discussion. There was a very interesting thread "Nikon go Crazy" there it was discussed having a hybrid collection of bodies and lenses - and I though it was a good idea rather than having say two 5Dmk3's. I am still looking at the D800 as there are definite pluses however I am afraid of some of the potential quirks of the d800 and dont know how many of them are ironed out. Something that has engaged my attention is the user feedback on Amazon for both the 5D3 and the d800. Both have around 250 reviews however, negative reviews for the 5D is almost non existent while its considerable for the d800. Leads me to believe there are issues with the d800 that left many buyers disappointed. I hope it comes down even more it might drive me to get one.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 13, 2013, 11:48:22 AM
I did not Say or Imply that Nikon or Canon were Dumping Cameras, but I've seen a number of used D800's being sold by owners for low prices.
 
It is pretty likely that the owners are overwhelmed with the high mp and the careful use required to get super high resolution.  All that says is that its not a all around body, but only for those who understand its limitations.  Its also true that users will get very high quality images even if they do not get the best.  But combined with difficult processing for a average 3 year or older computer has apparently had a effect. 
 
These people pass their issues around by word of mouth, and it can hurt sales.  Personally, I came close to buying it, I do know how to make it do its thing, and it does super high resolution with astounding DR very well.  But ... I'm Lazy, and not the type to spend a hour setting up for a few photos.  Most of the images I take won't be there after 10 seconds!
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: neuroanatomist on April 13, 2013, 12:08:47 PM
Something that has engaged my attention is the user feedback on Amazon for both the 5D3 and the d800. Both have around 250 reviews however, negative reviews for the 5D is almost non existent while its considerable for the d800. Leads me to believe there are issues with the d800 that left many buyers disappointed. I hope it comes down even more it might drive me to get one.

If you look at Amazon's Top 100 Rated dSLRs (rating, not sales), the 5DIII is at #4/5, and the top 8 are all Canon, with Sony rounding out the top 10. The D800 isn't even in the Top 100 (although the D800E is on the list...at an impressive #83).
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 13, 2013, 01:22:20 PM
Something that has engaged my attention is the user feedback on Amazon for both the 5D3 and the d800. Both have around 250 reviews however, negative reviews for the 5D is almost non existent while its considerable for the d800. Leads me to believe there are issues with the d800 that left many buyers disappointed. I hope it comes down even more it might drive me to get one.

If you look at Amazon's Top 100 Rated dSLRs (rating, not sales), the 5DIII is at #4/5, and the top 8 are all Canon, with Sony rounding out the top 10. The D800 isn't even in the Top 100 (although the D800E is on the list...at an impressive #83).

There is yet another factor that comes into play as well.  Some people tent to buy the higher priced item because they want or feel the need for prestiege, or they think its better due to the price.  The smart money is in lenses, bodies come and go.  I wonder how many buy high end bodies only to use them with a old 35-70mm lens.  I'm not talking CR members, they are generally knowledgable, even expert.
Like it or not, many, if not most buyers buy a DSLR without knowing what they are getting into.  One common scenario is that they lost or are losing their job, so they go out and spend what money they have on a DSLR and plan to go into business as a wedding or senior photographer.  Bad Move 98% of the time.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Chuck Alaimo on April 13, 2013, 02:01:20 PM
A  few thoughts ---

For One, I fully believe that the D800's debut price was lower than it should have been and it was a decision by nikon to sell it as a loss leader to gain market share.  Canon, who has the lead in market share, released the mk3 at the price point the d800 should have been at in order to lure canonites to nikon, and of course new users that would saw WOW at the big MP # - which has of course led to this whole price vs value debate here among all ya'll gear heads.  I fully believe that if canon and nikon were on an equal level with market share, both bodies would have been at the same price.

With that said, it's no wonder to me that d800's and mk3's are popping up on the used market more frequently.  Both are a year old now, so they aren't the newest greatest things anymore.  Many bought either body hoping it would be their answer (and yeah, there are quite a few richie riches out there that buy a fancy camera because its fancy, you know, got to beat the neighbors and have more fancy toys).  What happens next ,serious shooters that bought and dislike are selling in order to get a body that better suits their needs - as are the fancy people who have had the body for 6 months and didn't get the street cred they wanted, or did but street cred fades quickly so time to sell that toy to get some other fancy thing.

Either way, I'd say more and more used mk3's and d800's will hit the market over the next year, because that is the flow of things.  I know one friend of mine who is having buyers remorse on his d800, he likes it for some things, but, wants to trade up to get a d3 or a d3s. 

To the OP, one thing about those crazy deals is they disappear rather quickly.  On another thread here I was bringing up my backup body thought process and whether it will be a second mk3 or a 6d.  One poster claimed up and down that there is no reason to buy a 6d when there are refurb mk3's for $2400 (I have only seen refurbs going for that low, used ones I am seeing for $2799).  But, again, you got to be at the right place and right time for the $2400 deals because the supply is low and the demand is high (too many damn people use that canonrpicewatch site...grrrr).  There was one through adorama up yesterday for $2500, and where is it today, gone and sold. 
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 13, 2013, 02:18:42 PM
A  few thoughts ---


To the OP, one thing about those crazy deals is they disappear rather quickly.
Its still there after 3 days ;)   Not suprising, in times like this, high priced items are a tough sell.  There were lots of them on ebay that sold for around $2200, after their 10% or higher fees, they are getting $1900.She has been listing it for $2500 for quite a while.
The seller sells Real Estate, and is sometimes slow to update listings, so it may very well be sold.  She is also hard to get ahold of.  Her Brother likely gave it to her, he travels to Alaska to photograph the Iditarod races and uses Nikon. 
 
BTW, I bought her brothers Nikon 200-400 from her along with a couple of nice Nikon lenses for my first D800 which I sold.
 
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/mar/11/update-irondogging-the-iditarod-trail/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/mar/11/update-irondogging-the-iditarod-trail/)
 
 
http://spokane.craigslist.org/pho/3739143335.html (http://spokane.craigslist.org/pho/3739143335.html)
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: sdsr on April 13, 2013, 03:46:44 PM
Having had one, its a fine camera, but, as noted, even with high end Nikon Glass, its is difficult to get the resolution that the body can provide.
 

Let's suppose one buys a D800 and a few lenses capable of exploiting its resolution.  When you and others refer to difficulty (presumably this involves the need for a tripod, mirror lock-up, etc., and attendant skills) of realizing the camera's potential, are you saying that someone who chooses for whatever reason to use it hand-held will, other things being equal, get photos that are worse, or at least no better, than if he had used a D600 or D700 or 5DII/III or 6D etc., or that they will still look better, but not as good as they could?
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 13, 2013, 05:21:48 PM
Having had one, its a fine camera, but, as noted, even with high end Nikon Glass, its is difficult to get the resolution that the body can provide.
 

Let's suppose one buys a D800 and a few lenses capable of exploiting its resolution.  When you and others refer to difficulty (presumably this involves the need for a tripod, mirror lock-up, etc., and attendant skills) of realizing the camera's potential, are you saying that someone who chooses for whatever reason to use it hand-held will, other things being equal, get photos that are worse, or at least no better, than if he had used a D600 or D700 or 5DII/III or 6D etc., or that they will still look better, but not as good as they could?

Back when DPR first tested it using the 50mm Nikon lens, they had and mentioned that they found it took extreme care to get the sharpest images, even with their studio setup and heavy duty tripod, it was difficult to consistently get the resolution they expected.  After buying mine to use with a 24-70mmG, I concur, its difficult but not impossible.  For landscape photographers who are accustomed to spending long periods waiting for the perfect image, this is not a big deal.
 
Using similar care, you certainly won't get worse resolution than 5D MK III or similar, so thats not a issue unless you expected to get higher resolution.  You will get excellent DR, even with a lesser lens.
 
The Huge raw files, and they really get big when you set a high ISO are slow to process unless you also get the latest computer with SSD's.  I just upgraded from a first version intel i7 to the latest with fast SSD's, a ton of memory, and they now process in a reasonable amount of time.
 
Many users don't want to drop 2K or more on a new computer when they have one three years old that seems fine. 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: archiea on April 13, 2013, 07:01:55 PM
I believe many people going from D700 to D800 where kinda overwhelmed by the transition from 12 to 36 MP.

A higher pixel density requires a different handling. When people keep using the same glass as before and doing things in the same way as before, results can be disappointing. It's no camera for a "run&gun" style - many D700 users switched to the 5D3 for this reason. Same is true for the computer hardware in post-processing. This is why a transition to D600's 24MP is often softer and more manageable.

Another possibility is that people are happy enough with the cheaper, lighter, D600. I have one and I seriously can't complain about a thing (except the 1/4000s max shutter speed). Things that the D600 lacks of, the D800 does too. I believe many people find the D600 + D7100 combo overall more effective than the D800 alone.

I had to go through a transition period when going from an 8mp 30D to a 18 MP 7D, its true. You have to learn to not pixel peep in many ways. And likely, the 36 MP buyers are pixel peepers..
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 13, 2013, 07:19:44 PM
I believe many people going from D700 to D800 where kinda overwhelmed by the transition from 12 to 36 MP.

A higher pixel density requires a different handling. When people keep using the same glass as before and doing things in the same way as before, results can be disappointing. It's no camera for a "run&gun" style - many D700 users switched to the 5D3 for this reason. Same is true for the computer hardware in post-processing. This is why a transition to D600's 24MP is often softer and more manageable.

Another possibility is that people are happy enough with the cheaper, lighter, D600. I have one and I seriously can't complain about a thing (except the 1/4000s max shutter speed). Things that the D600 lacks of, the D800 does too. I believe many people find the D600 + D7100 combo overall more effective than the D800 alone.

I had to go through a transition period when going from an 8mp 30D to a 18 MP 7D, its true. You have to learn to not pixel peep in many ways. And likely, the 36 MP buyers are pixel peepers..

I certainly check 1:1.  No need to buy a 36mp or a 18mp body if you don't or can't realize the resolution.  Buyers expect to get more resoluton, or they'd just keep their D700's.
 
Thats why I wonder at reviews that reduce resolution to 8mp to compare sensors.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: friedmud on April 13, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
I see a lot of the old "there are no lenses good enough for 36MP!" cries going on in this thread.

That is just not true.  The final resolution of a camera system is a function of all of the pieces in that system.  A higher resolution sensor will increase the overall resolving power of the system.

But don't take my word for it.  Go see the tests here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison)

Note that the Nikon 24-70 by itself is less sharp than the Canon 24-70.  However, when fitted to a D800 it out-resolves a Canon 24-70 on a 5D Mk III... the higher resolution of the sensor making up for some of the inherit deficit in the lens.

I just can't wait until a ~36MP Canon comes out and we can stop seeing all of these ridiculous "I would never use 36MP!" posts.  Everyone can use more resolution, regardless of your style of shooting.  Now whether you truly "need" 36MP (to the point where you would put down your money for it) is something else...
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Aglet on April 13, 2013, 09:10:34 PM
Use it properly and the D800/e really supplies the goods.
Use it with lesser lenses and you still benefit from superior low noise performance.

I've been getting satisfactory overall IQ with the 70-200/4 VR handheld even in poor light.
.. As long as it's not too cold.  The VR seems to freeze up after a while if it's well below freezing outside.  Nikon rep reminds me that it's really only a "consumer" lens after all.  yep...  guess so.

I've been a little disappointed to see how much resale has dropped on D800s recently.  Was hoping to recoup some cash for other uses by selling one of mine but now I doubt it's worthwhile.  May as well get another year or 2's use from it.  The little d5100s have held their value better as a percentage of initial purchase price.

Added a Pentax K-5 IIs to the stable this week.  I like it, sort of a super-rebel feature-wise, not the best AF system, despite improvements.  It's spot on when it works but it's not as nice an AF system as Canon or Nikon provide, kinda hokey when it comes to selecting AF point and operation.  But, it's more than adequate for what I want from it and it fits like a fine glove - with impressive ISO performance at BOTH ends of the scale.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Hobby Shooter on April 13, 2013, 09:28:59 PM
Use it properly and the D800/e really supplies the goods.
Use it with lesser lenses and you still benefit from superior low noise performance.

I've been getting satisfactory overall IQ with the 70-200/4 VR handheld even in poor light.
.. As long as it's not too cold.  The VR seems to freeze up after a while if it's well below freezing outside.  Nikon rep reminds me that it's really only a "consumer" lens after all.  yep...  guess so.

I've been a little disappointed to see how much resale has dropped on D800s recently.  Was hoping to recoup some cash for other uses by selling one of mine but now I doubt it's worthwhile.  May as well get another year or 2's use from it.  The little d5100s have held their value better as a percentage of initial purchase price.

Added a Pentax K-5 IIs to the stable this week.  I like it, sort of a super-rebel feature-wise, not the best AF system, despite improvements.  It's spot on when it works but it's not as nice an AF system as Canon or Nikon provide, kinda hokey when it comes to selecting AF point and operation.  But, it's more than adequate for what I want from it and it fits like a fine glove - with impressive ISO performance at BOTH ends of the scale.
Overall I don't think you should be disappointed. Owners of Canon and Nikon will get a greater resale value than owners of more obscure brands. It's like selling a BMW compared to selling a Yugo. The D800 and the 5D3 are very likely to be popular on the used market for years.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Bruce Photography on April 13, 2013, 10:39:48 PM
When the price of a new D800E from B&H drops down to $2500, I may want to sell my D800 to buy another D800E as a backup body.  I did shoot my 5D3 just last week because I decided to try out the new 24-70.  Which, by the way, looks very good and well built and is a real pleasure to use - Good Going Canon!.  Right now I've been cleaning the sensor on the D800 and I see no camera is immune from dirt gathered during a windy day when changing lenses.  Now there is a topic I'd like to see discussed regardless of camera brand.  Maybe some people selling their cameras clean their sensors with comet....
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 14, 2013, 12:12:34 AM
I see a lot of the old "there are no lenses good enough for 36MP!" cries going on in this thread.

That is just not true.  The final resolution of a camera system is a function of all of the pieces in that system.  A higher resolution sensor will increase the overall resolving power of the system.

But don't take my word for it.  Go see the tests here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison)

Note that the Nikon 24-70 by itself is less sharp than the Canon 24-70.  However, when fitted to a D800 it out-resolves a Canon 24-70 on a 5D Mk III... the higher resolution of the sensor making up for some of the inherit deficit in the lens.

I just can't wait until a ~36MP Canon comes out and we can stop seeing all of these ridiculous "I would never use 36MP!" posts.  Everyone can use more resolution, regardless of your style of shooting.  Now whether you truly "need" 36MP (to the point where you would put down your money for it) is something else...

The D800 is certainly a nice camera, I wouldn't think there is any argument there.
 
I paid $3,000 for my D8oo last May, and its dropped in value by $800 more or less.  I paid $2700 net ($50 Rebate) at Adorama for my 5D MK III last September after selling the D800, and the average used 5D MK III now sells for almost $2800 on ebay.
 
I was asking why users thought the D800 price had dropped so much in comparison.  Even if you consider that the 5D MK III has dropped $800 from its original selling price, it isstill a lower percentage price reduction.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 14, 2013, 01:02:03 AM
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.

Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?
All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.
Just to clear things up a little? where and when have you seen a D800 at $2349? The only time i've seen that price is a one time deal on Refurbished D800's.  I don't think i've ever seen a D800 new for less than $2800, while i've seen the 5DIII at under $3000 many times.
From my experience, I think it's pretty clear that Canon plays the high MSRP/Future discounts game much more aggressively than Nikon does.... at least in the past few years.
I had seen a few on ebay stores (could be Big Value Inc but not sure), also STAPLES sold Nikon D800s for $2278.49 (including tax) and here is a web link that provides proof including copies of the receipts: http://fstoppers.com/ymmv-all-cameras-sale-30-percent-off-staples (http://fstoppers.com/ymmv-all-cameras-sale-30-percent-off-staples)
I agree that Canon "plays the high MSRP/Future discounts game much more aggressively than Nikon does".
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 14, 2013, 12:59:56 PM
I see a lot of the old "there are no lenses good enough for 36MP!" cries going on in this thread.

That is just not true.  The final resolution of a camera system is a function of all of the pieces in that system.  A higher resolution sensor will increase the overall resolving power of the system.

But don't take my word for it.  Go see the tests here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/a-24-70mm-system-comparison)

Note that the Nikon 24-70 by itself is less sharp than the Canon 24-70.  However, when fitted to a D800 it out-resolves a Canon 24-70 on a 5D Mk III... the higher resolution of the sensor making up for some of the inherit deficit in the lens.

I just can't wait until a ~36MP Canon comes out and we can stop seeing all of these ridiculous "I would never use 36MP!" posts.  Everyone can use more resolution, regardless of your style of shooting.  Now whether you truly "need" 36MP (to the point where you would put down your money for it) is something else...

The D800 is certainly a nice camera, I wouldn't think there is any argument there.
 
I paid $3,000 for my D8oo last May, and its dropped in value by $800 more or less.  I paid $2700 net ($50 Rebate) at Adorama for my 5D MK III last September after selling the D800, and the average used 5D MK III now sells for almost $2800 on ebay.
 
I was asking why users thought the D800 price had dropped so much in comparison.  Even if you consider that the 5D MK III has dropped $800 from its original selling price, it isstill a lower percentage price reduction.

what is it to discuss? Canon do not have a high resolution camera as Nikon and with 14 stops DR
???
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 14, 2013, 01:51:35 PM
There is a almost new D800 on our local craigslist (not a scam) for $2100.  I checked ebay and noted that there were a lot of sales in the $2200 range, some even included a cheap lens.
 
Why are people dumping them?  I was tempted to get it as a 2nd body to my 5D MK III.  I have several Nikon lenses.  Finally, I decided that I'd pass it up, if others don't want them, I won't be able to resell it a year from now without losing money.
I did buy one new last May for $3K, and later sold it for $3200 when they were hot items.   There are some better lenses now available or on the horizon, so the lens situation is not so bleak as it was.

Well at least they're holding their value better than the 5D Mark III!

Debut'd at $3499 and has been on sale new for as little as $2799. Don't know about 2nd hand prices but they'd have to be less.

The new price of a D800 has dropped from $3000 to $2800.

5D3 with $700 (20%) drop vs D800 with $200 (7%) drop.

Easy to see which has held its price better.

I can see a few D800s for sale at or below $2200 2nd hand, but it has had a good workout at 17,000 snaps!

Maybe you should ask the sellers why they are selling rather than create a troll topic here?
All reputable stores are selling the 5D MK III for $3299 ... the $2799 you are quoting are "flash" sales i.e. just a couple of hundred units to promote a particular store (like Big Value Inc etc) for a very brief period.
So comparing "flash" sales of 5D MK III with the normal selling price of D800 is unfair. If you are going to compare at least be fair in also comparing the "flash" sales of D800 ... the last flash sale I saw of D800 was $2349.
IMHO both cameras are holding their price drops quite similarly.

For the D800, price information came from:
http://www.nikonpricewatch.com/product/03848/Nikon-D800-price.html (http://www.nikonpricewatch.com/product/03848/Nikon-D800-price.html)

For the 5D3, price information came from:
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03868/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-price.html (http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03868/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-price.html)

I bought it from Adorama, a authorized dealer.  True, it was a short sale, the average price at the time was about $2900.
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Rienzphotoz on April 14, 2013, 02:59:32 PM
what I meant was that d800 was cheap from the beginning, high resolution, good AF and great DR and great response even if there are "only" 4 pictures /sec
I agree, that D800 is a great camera ... on many occasions I thought of getting it but I have a few Canon lenses which I really like and I don't want to invest in high end Nikkor glass at the moment (Nikkor glass is very expensive compared to most equivalent Canon glass, that's where Nikon slices people very nicely) ... but I have and continue to keep at least 1 Nikon DSLR (currently it is D7000 + 18-300 VR ... waiting to get dump the D7000 for D7100 when there is a good sale or when a low priced refurb shows up).
Title: Re: Nikon D800 Value Dropping?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on April 14, 2013, 05:15:26 PM
I think that about everyone has given their opinion.
Thanks.  I'm locking my thread.