canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Eddie_2001 on August 01, 2011, 08:13:20 PM

Title: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Eddie_2001 on August 01, 2011, 08:13:20 PM
When one buys a refurb 7D (or anything else refurbed from online Canon store) does it come complete with all of the accessories that a new one would have? And does the shutter have a high usage count?

I am about ready to order the 7D and the 24-105 L lens (both refurbs) and I am just making sure I don't end up with something full of dings and/or a high shutter count!

Thanks....

Ted
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: elflord on August 01, 2011, 08:54:05 PM
I bought a refurb lens once, and basically it looked new.

When I read up on refurbished items, the take home from my reading was:
(1) most refurbished items are store demo models (almost new)
(2) manufacturer refurbished items go through a more rigorous quality control process than new items.

Having followed and shopped for refurbished lenses on canon's website -- the prices for these lenses is often lower than used prices for completed listings on ebay. High demand lenses (for example, the 70-200mm) get snapped up very quickly when they appear there. So the lenses are a good deal for the hobby photographer (e.g. relatively light usage)

Take a look at this article: http://www.digital-photography-school.com/refurbished-camera-equipment-as-good-as-new-if-not-better
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 01, 2011, 11:09:11 PM
I just received my CLP refurb 7D a week ago.  Can't tell it from new.

Here is what I got

(http://www.mount-spokane-photography.com/Photography/Canon-7D/i-vX9JQrr/0/XL/7D-and-15-85-refurb-unboxing-4-XL.jpg)

(http://www.mount-spokane-photography.com/Photography/Canon-7D/i-bsjmVcw/0/XL/7D-and-15-85-refurb-unboxing-6-XL.jpg)

(http://www.mount-spokane-photography.com/Photography/Canon-7D/i-X4NsCmL/0/XL/7D-and-15-85-refurb-unboxing-7-XL.jpg)

(http://www.mount-spokane-photography.com/Photography/Canon-7D/i-3RkBzvb/0/X2/7D-and-15-85-refurb-unboxing-8-X2.jpg)

The battery looked new, it was dated 10/2010 and had a microscopic scratch mark on one terminal.

I bought the refurb 15-85mm lens with it, I already have a 24-105mmL and it lives on my 5D MK II, its not wide enough for the 7D, I much prefer the 15-85 on it.

(http://www.mount-spokane-photography.com/Photography/Canon-7D/i-dFbSfND/0/XL/7D-and-15-85-refurb-unboxing-2-XL.jpg)

Here is one of the first photos using my 100mm L.  The 7D /100mm L combination is a good one.

(http://www.mount-spokane-photography.com/Photography/Canon-7D/i-68Gt326/0/X2/100mm-L-with-ctr-group-AF-11-X2.jpg)
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: baks5523 on August 02, 2011, 02:01:37 AM
I recently picked up a refurb 5d mkII from Canon USA and upon opening the box I could not tell it from a brand new one. There wasn't a scratch or nick that I could find. Needless to say I was very pleased saving $500

As for shutter count, the file numbers were in the 4000's. I'm guessing they don't reset the file numbers when they do the repair so take that for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: bycostello on August 02, 2011, 03:17:04 AM
and if it is a refurb they might of changed the shutter mech anyway...
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: MK5GTI on August 02, 2011, 10:15:15 AM
you don't need to worry about refurb Canon gear IMO, sometimes they went through tougher QC from Canon.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: tomscott on August 02, 2011, 11:10:12 AM
In my opinion I dont think you need to worry about high shutter counts. Most refurbs are cameras people have bought, opened the box and didnt want so took back, had minor faults or bought the camera and returned it within the 28 days because the product didnt meet expectation.

Refurb units are usually like new, they go through a stringent evaluation, replacement, adjustment and cleaning process. This makes sure that all electronic parts are working correctly, and are within manufacturers tolerances. Basically just the same as if it were a new product. In fact you will find that a refurb unit will be better than a high production run camera, as only 1 in probably 1000 or even 10,000 are checked. Where as the refurb will be tested to the extreme and will be perfect without flaw within manufactures tolerances. (but the word refurb reduces its value second hand significantly).

It is highly unlikely that any refurb will have more than a couple of hundred shots (I would say that a couple of hundred is quite high) and seen as tho most shutters are good for 150,000 theres not much to worry about. Also your warranty is re-instated, so you have that safety net. I would be more worried about the condition of the body, scratches etc. But even scuffed bodies will be deemed unsaleable, so either replaced or written off. If there are scratches on the body they will be extremely minor, if you have used any of the semi or pro cameras they are really robust and quite hard to mark badly without an impact. If there were an impact they would be written off straight away.

In fact cameras are similar to cars... everyone wants a low milage car but if the car is old like 10 years and has less than 30k on the clock I would be worried. Equipment that is used a lot generally is more reliable, equipment that is used every once in a while is more likely to have faults. Obviously you get wear and tear, but I have a good example. Canon 10/20/30/40/50/300/350/400/450/500/550/600D's have a shutter button problem, when used contaminants get in (finger muck, greese, sweat, sand, water etc) but if used alot the button is depressed so many times it clears itself, the same happens if you dont use it as much but the contaminant sticks and doesn't move and builds with dust etc so when you come to use it the button is very unreliable. The contacts dont work properly leading to some risky home fixes or £200 from Canon.

This happened to me, I was shooting with two 40ds a few years ago one as a back up and one as my main camera. the one that i used commercially worked flawlessly for the 3 years I owned it with well over 150,000 actuations. The other back up, seized at 14000!!!. Same with vehicles again, anything rubber like seals belts, gasket seals go quicker if they are not used. Under maintenance they will not have been deemed replaceable through milage. So you buy a 10 year old porsche great buy give it some stick and its in the garage the week later... unless you know what you are looking for. Interesting to think about.

Tom scott
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 02, 2011, 11:35:04 AM
Hey Mt Spokane: Have you tried (or would you be interested in trying) to determine the shutter actuation count on your 7D refurb. I know there are a couple of apps out there that supposedly do it ... such as this one:

http://bit.ly/nejjId

I would just be interested to see what a typical refurb would actually have ... as it should have very few.

No one has been able to decode the locked firmware in the dual processor 7D.  Astrojargon EOS Info does not work with it.

Canon no longer includes shutter count in the Camera API, so there is no software that works with it.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 02, 2011, 12:00:42 PM
I just received my CLP refurb 7D a week ago.  Can't tell it from new.

I can...it says "refurbished" right on the box!   :P

Canon no longer includes shutter count in the Camera API, so there is no software that works with it.

Not true.  EOS Info doesn't read the shutter count from a 7D, 500D, 550D, etc.  However, the shutter count on cameras which cannot be read by EOS Info, i.e. 7D, 60D, T1i/500D, T2i/550D, and some 1-series bodies, can be checked with gPhoto2 (http://www.gphoto.org/) (the T3i/600D or T3/1100D have not been added yet).  But, gPhoto2 runs only in a Unix shell, meaning you have to have a Mac or a Linux box to use it (and also some knowledge of working with a command-line interface, which you probably have if you're running Linux, but might not if you're a 'typical' Mac user).
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: bchernicoff on August 02, 2011, 12:06:09 PM
I have a horror story involving a Canon Direct refurb 70-200mm f/2.8 IS Mk II. The short version is I think they sent me one that came in for refurbishment and skipped the process. The rear lens cap was off and loose in the plastic bag containing the lens. I took the lens out and saw that the rear weather seal was torn, specs were on the rear element, the mount petals and electrical contacts show signs of moderate use (my several years old 100-400 L shows less wear). I took the front lens cap off and saw that the front element was filthy and looked like it has been hastily wiped with something that left smudges. I documented all this with pictures and then called Canon. The return process was awful and a month after they received it back from me, I still had not received a credit. I was faced with either paying that credit card bill or contesting the charge. I talked it over with Citibank and decided to contest it. It all worked out in the end, and I found an excellent used copy locally.

A few weeks ago (when they were offering 15% off), I ordered the refurb 60D/18-135 kit from them as a gift for my brother. The price was just too good. It came and was indistinguishable from new, so hopefully my first experience truly was the exception.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 02, 2011, 12:45:45 PM
I recently picked up a refurb 5d mkII from Canon USA and upon opening the box I could not tell it from a brand new one. There wasn't a scratch or nick that I could find. Needless to say I was very pleased saving $500

As for shutter count, the file numbers were in the 4000's. I'm guessing they don't reset the file numbers when they do the repair so take that for what it's worth.

Always format your memory card before putting it into a new camera.  Otherwise the camera will pick the next sequential image number from what was on the card.  I formatted mine, and the first image was number one.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: -zero- on August 02, 2011, 03:23:14 PM
Always format your memory card before putting it into a new camera.  Otherwise the camera will pick the next sequential image number from what was on the card.  I formatted mine, and the first image was number one.

Interesting,

In my experience (very limited) it is the opposite, I use two cards on my camera and rarely reformat them when I exchange them and the picture count from the camera always overrides the one on the card

maybe its different with CF cards (I use sd cards)
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 02, 2011, 03:54:55 PM
As long as the image count on the camera is higher than the last one on the card, it will use the one from the camera. 

But ... If you put a card you've been using from another camera with say 8000 images into a new body, the body will start counting 8001, etc.  You can always reset it to zero if you wish.

Its pretty common to see someone buy a new camera, pull out the card from his existing Canon DSLR , and then complain that the new camera is used because it started at 8001.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: baks5523 on August 02, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
I recently picked up a refurb 5d mkII from Canon USA and upon opening the box I could not tell it from a brand new one. There wasn't a scratch or nick that I could find. Needless to say I was very pleased saving $500

As for shutter count, the file numbers were in the 4000's. I'm guessing they don't reset the file numbers when they do the repair so take that for what it's worth.

Always format your memory card before putting it into a new camera.  Otherwise the camera will pick the next sequential image number from what was on the card.  I formatted mine, and the first image was number one.

No I did, I always reformat each time I put a card into a body especially since I rotate between 3 bodies depending on what I'm photographing. But thanks for the tip nonetheless.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Edwin Herdman on August 02, 2011, 05:12:08 PM
I recently picked up a refurb 5d mkII from Canon USA and upon opening the box I could not tell it from a brand new one. There wasn't a scratch or nick that I could find. Needless to say I was very pleased saving $500

As for shutter count, the file numbers were in the 4000's. I'm guessing they don't reset the file numbers when they do the repair so take that for what it's worth.

Always format your memory card before putting it into a new camera.  Otherwise the camera will pick the next sequential image number from what was on the card.  I formatted mine, and the first image was number one.

No I did, I always reformat each time I put a card into a body especially since I rotate between 3 bodies depending on what I'm photographing. But thanks for the tip nonetheless.
I think both you guys have it wrong.  On my camera, there's an option (the second item on the first of the yellow "wrench" settings screens) labeled File Numbering - options are Continuous, Auto reset, and Manual reset.  I have mine set on Continuous and so it will use the next number in sequence regardless of what memory card is installed.  The only recent hiccup I saw was that it created a CANON 101 folder recently when I passed the 9999 image mark (I saw it before once, probably with a different file numbering setup).

Similarly, I would much rather buy a camera with 1k shutter clicks as opposed to one with 10k shutter clicks.
Yeah, none of us are Consumer Reports, here, so there are other sources of reliability data (aka wild stories and innuendo online).  But hey, I don't like CR's camera reviews anyway.

I agree that 1K is better than 10K, but probably the difference is going to start to be around the 10K versus 100K mark.  I wouldn't expect any problems from any Canon DSLR that has just 10K shutter clicks - I'd expect more problems from dust, wear, and the like first.

Of course, I would also be wary of a camera that has a lot of signs of wear and few shutter activations - this is something the Lensrental guy (if I remember correctly) mentioned seeing as a lot of their 7Ds are used for video when rented out, instead of for photos.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Eddie_2001 on August 03, 2011, 12:00:38 AM
From what everyone has said I wouldn't have a problem with buying a refurbed camera...and I agree that the camera could be better than a new one account the Canon techs go over the units before shipping. And a couple of minor marks like on the battery contacts is nothing...at least to me anyways.

Thanks...

Ted
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: minestrone on August 03, 2011, 01:04:25 PM
To the original poster of this thread:

It seems like a lot of your statements are inaccurate. But regardless of your concerns, I know how you feel. When the D3 and D700 came out I was amazed by the camera stats ON PAPER/ONLINE. But after seeing several of my friends who have also been doing photography just as long as me 10+ years, its much less impressive than what we're led to believe.

I think if you're  that worried about Nikon being better than Canon you should make the switch and see if its really any better. I've done two photoshoots with my buddy who uses a D700 and I'm happy I got the 5D Mark II. He was my photo assistant for one of the shoots so he gave me all his RAW files and comparatively speaking his images did not stack up to all the glowing reviews of the D700.

Check out all the amazing photographers out there right now, most of them are either using a Medium Format or a Canon :)

All these photos below are in my flickr faves and all taken by Canon users. I didn't specifically filter it to be Canon specific it just happened that way. It has taught me that all the stats on paper and great marketing campaigns don't make a great camera or photographer. You'll be happy with your work with any brand, just focus on technique.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vitorshalom/2946457149
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dhkong/726161203
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redpilotmedia/2835439154
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiie/5011129045
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 03, 2011, 01:18:20 PM

Always format your memory card before putting it into a new camera.

When you deploy a new card, do you first format on win/pc system, then format in camera?

Sandisk tech support recommends that process...

Its a good idea to do that.  Do a full format on PC (takes 10 min or more), the camera does a quick format.

Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: NapaDave on August 08, 2011, 06:39:50 PM
Just received a refurbished 7D from Canon today and the battery is apparently not new as the Recharge Performance display shows only two green bars, not three.  Called Canon to complain and they offered to accept the return and send me a whole new package, can't just send a new battery.  As expensive as those batteries are I really do want one that's close to new.  I also just bought a refurbished Olympus 6020 p&s and that one came with a physically damaged battery that was DOA.  So my advice if you buy a refurbished camera -- Check the battery, 'cause apparently they just toss whatever is handy into the box.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Eddie_2001 on August 08, 2011, 09:20:49 PM
Dave...did Canon offer to pay the return shipping as well?? Seems like quite a hassle to have to send everything back to them.

I am getting close to getting a refurb 7D as well, and I would also be disappointed about the battery as well.

Ted
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 08, 2011, 10:21:49 PM
Dave...did Canon offer to pay the return shipping as well?? Seems like quite a hassle to have to send everything back to them.

I am getting close to getting a refurb 7D as well, and I would also be disappointed about the battery as well.

Ted

The battery I received with my refurb 7D was dated late 2010, and charges up to 100% and three bars.  I'd ask them to just replace the battery, or to send you a return label for the entire package.  I save the boxes and packing, so returns are easy.

Ask to speak to a supervisor or someone who can authorize it, if the service person does not have that authority.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: PXL_Pusher on August 09, 2011, 12:44:51 PM
Ask to speak to a supervisor or someone who can authorize it, if the service person does not have that authority.

Fully agree. Now a days more than ever, most support lines will have operators trained like robots to tell you "NO". My rule of thumb? Don't take no from somebody who can't (or is unauthorized) to give you a yes. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: NapaDave on August 09, 2011, 03:31:56 PM
To Canon's credit, they have sent me a paid shipping label for the return, and will overnight the replacement package to me as soon as they get the return.  The customer service rep did this for me without my asking.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: april on August 15, 2011, 09:22:28 AM
i also would like to buy a refurb camera and lenses but the website doesn't allow me.
are these items from this site exclusively for sale in USA only?
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 15, 2011, 09:28:57 AM
i also would like to buy a refurb camera and lenses but the website doesn't allow me.
are these items from this site exclusively for sale in USA only?

Yes, they are sold by Canon USA for in-country customers only (I suspect it's based on shipping and billing addresses, so if you know someone in the USA whom you trust, they could order it for you.

Apparently, Canon Europe sells refurbs via eBay.
Title: Re: Buying a refurb 7D
Post by: dr croubie on August 16, 2011, 02:52:23 AM
Apparently, Canon Europe sells refurbs via eBay.

i've heard this a few times around the place, and finally figured out where. ebay.co.uk and search for 'canon refurb' turns up the seller 'canon_uk1'. currently (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/canon_uk1/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A5251&rt=nc&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_sop=2&_sc=1) 170 items up, a 5D kit, 24-105L, 17-55 f/2.8, 70-200 f/4L IS, and a crudload of pixma printers and Ixus cameras.
Postage only to UK, hence i couldn't even find it using ebay.nl where i'd looked before. maybe my sister in London is going to be receiving a few boxes in the mail for my mum to bring home with her to Aus when she's up there end of the year...