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Gear Talk => Software & Accessories => Topic started by: killswitch on April 25, 2013, 10:10:28 AM

Title: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: killswitch on April 25, 2013, 10:10:28 AM
Anyone used this B+W 10-Stop ND (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/871605-REG/B_W_65_1073163_82mm_3_0_ND_110.html) filter on their 16-35 II? I am wondering how bad the vignetting will be if this filter is used (could not find a slim version from B+W) on the lens at 16mm focal length, stopped down to f8, f11, etc. The lens will be paired with a 5D3.

I would get the Lee's Big Stopper but the wait time is ridiculous. Saw some on eBay, and people there are selling the Big Stopper for $250 (2filter, BnH sells them for around $140).
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: Barrfly on April 25, 2013, 10:23:11 AM
 I've been using it on a 17-40 L and 24-105 L with no problem.  (and can actually focus using live view ).  No issues with  vignetting on this lens , I'm pretty pleased with the B+W black glass .
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: ksuweh on April 25, 2013, 10:26:38 AM
I own the 16-35 II & the B&W 10-stop. However, sadly, I haven't used the 10-stop on the 16-35 yet. :(
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: nda on April 25, 2013, 10:33:39 AM
I have the LEE Filter system, I recently bought the big stopper on ebay for around $200 and it took about a week for delivery.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: Barrfly on April 25, 2013, 10:34:50 AM
Here's a few examples of long time exposures with the B+W .
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8263/8681129498_4915a9eb1a_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8681129498/)
_K8A0116 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8681129498/#) by barrfly1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/72565153@N00/), on Flickr

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8517/8561289691_ca1b3d8189_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561289691/)
_MG_0245 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561289691/#) by barrfly1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/72565153@N00/), on Flickr

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8561263373_dd97b36918_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561263373/)
_MG_0216 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561263373/#) by barrfly1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/72565153@N00/), on Flickr

 The last photo has the color cast intact , it's not terrible .
If you do decide to go with the screw on filter, don't forget to purchase some stop-down rings so you can use it on other lenses !
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: JoeH on April 25, 2013, 10:43:08 AM
I ordered my Lee big stopper (about $170 currently) from 2filter.com along with a my complete Lee "kit".

I might have timed it well, but I got my big stopper in about 2-3 weeks. Other items have taken longer.

They don't charge you until it ships.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: Etienne on April 25, 2013, 10:50:52 AM
Here's a few examples of long time exposures with the B+W .


 The last photo has the color cast intact , it's not terrible .
If you do decide to go with the screw on filter, don't forget to purchase some stop-down rings so you can use it on other lenses !

Gorgeous shots. I feel inspired to use my ND filters more.
Do you need 10 stops to accomplish this? Can you make do with 6 stops ND?

Opinions?
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: Barrfly on April 25, 2013, 11:03:33 AM
Here's a few examples of long time exposures with the B+W .


 The last photo has the color cast intact , it's not terrible .
If you do decide to go with the screw on filter, don't forget to purchase some stop-down rings so you can use it on other lenses !

Gorgeous shots. I feel inspired to use my ND filters more.
Do you need 10 stops to accomplish this? Can you make do with 6 stops ND?

Opinions?

 I usually shoot 30 second or longer but to get the effect in the above photos it's probably overkill.  Depending on the rate of movement of the subject ( in this case water.) you could get the same misty, foggy results at shorter exposures. Clouds on the other hand tend to move slower so take more time to capture movement. 
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: bseitz234 on April 25, 2013, 11:32:00 AM
Related question for those using ND filters, since I've never used one but am starting to get inspired: is it worth getting MRC? On UV and CPL filters, it doesn't seem to affect the price as much- but for some reason, the MRC version of B+W's 10-stop is twice as expensive as the single-coated version... would love to hear thoughts on the matter!

Thanks,
Brian
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on April 25, 2013, 11:57:13 AM
I have been impressed enough with Haida's new Pro MC II filters in 77mm that I recently purchase one for my Tamron in 82mm.  I have both a ND1000 (10 stop) and ND64 (6 stop).  The filter ring is very, very slim and produces very little vignetting.

Here's a few on the 17-40L:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8251471979_3c7b9d5770.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8251471979/)
Anchored in the Light [Explored December 7th, 2012] (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8251471979/) by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott (http://www.flickr.com/people/thousandwordimages/), on Flickr

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8343/8193226996_34e9007baf.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8193226996/)
Sheltered (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8193226996/#) by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott (http://www.flickr.com/people/thousandwordimages/), on Flickr

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8191/8134661797_4b307a593f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8134661797/)
Room With a View (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8134661797/#) by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott (http://www.flickr.com/people/thousandwordimages/), on Flickr

Here's another shot with the ND64 on the Tamron:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8546/8623517551_f7277aa45e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8623517551/)
Still Winter, Still Beautiful (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/8623517551/#) by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott (http://www.flickr.com/people/thousandwordimages/), on Flickr

They are available on Ebay for about $80 and are very high quality filters.  They are German made with high quality Schott glass.  I've been impressed.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: killswitch on April 25, 2013, 12:03:37 PM
Wow! Lovely images from Barrfly and Dustin! I am very very interested in the Haida's ND now, and for $80 only? That sounds like a real steal! I know ND tends to produce some form of color cast, but as long as they are very minimal it should be ok and can be handled in pp. So Dustin, have you noticed any significant color cast from the Haida's?
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: Etienne on April 25, 2013, 12:15:51 PM
If you custom WB with the ND filter on, does that now eliminate any color cast?
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on April 25, 2013, 01:15:59 PM
Wow! Lovely images from Barrfly and Dustin! I am very very interested in the Haida's ND now, and for $80 only? That sounds like a real steal! I know ND tends to produce some form of color cast, but as long as they are very minimal it should be ok and can be handled in pp. So Dustin, have you noticed any significant color cast from the Haida's?

I would say there is a slight (and I mean very slight) magenta shift, but it is definitely pretty negligible.  I have been really impressed with how clean the images come out.  I haven't noticed any color shift in my experience with the ND64, but I've also only used it a couple of times.  LE's don't work as well in winter here because no water is moving :)
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: neuroanatomist on April 26, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
You shouldn't see additional vignetting with the F-Pro mount on the 16-35L II.


(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6012/5938141602_b64194f935_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_brain/5938141602/)
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: killswitch on April 27, 2013, 12:02:00 AM
You shouldn't see additional vignetting with the F-Pro mount on the 16-35L II.


(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6012/5938141602_b64194f935_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_brain/5938141602/)

Thanks a lot for that chart neuro. That helped! ^_^
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: pedro on April 27, 2013, 02:14:27 AM
I have been impressed enough with Haida's new Pro MC II filters in 77mm that I recently purchase one for my Tamron in 82mm.  I have both a ND1000 (10 stop) and ND64 (6 stop).  The filter ring is very, very slim and produces very little vignetting.

@Dustin: Thanks for sharing! Just ordered an ND 1000 (10 stop), 82mm, from Germany. Cost: about 57 Euros. A bargain compared with other labels...for example B+W. That was just the "icing on the cake" for my excellent 16-35 F/2.8 USM II which I recently bought used at a retail store for CHF 998.00 instead of CHF 1698 new or CHF 1400 online. Cheers, Peter.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: ksuweh on April 27, 2013, 09:40:25 AM
Maybe a little off the subject, but I just don't get how someone can spend so much money on a Canon L lens like the 16-35 II & then buy the cheapest filter they can find to put on the lens! I mean I like a great deal just as much as the nest guy, but at what cost to the IQ. The whole point of spending the extra money & buying an L is for the superior IQ. Why wouldn't you do the same & spend the extra on the filter that you put in front of that expensive L glass??? It makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on April 27, 2013, 08:00:15 PM
Maybe a little off the subject, but I just don't get how someone can spend so much money on a Canon L lens like the 16-35 II & then buy the cheapest filter they can find to put on the lens! I mean I like a great deal just as much as the nest guy, but at what cost to the IQ. The whole point of spending the extra money & buying an L is for the superior IQ. Why wouldn't you do the same & spend the extra on the filter that you put in front of that expensive L glass??? It makes no sense to me.

A valid point, but as a person who normally uses good quality (I typically use the higher levels of Hoya filters - Pro1D or equivalent), I can certainly attest to the fact that the advantages over premium filters (beyond the better Hoya level) are going to be imperceptible to almost every eye.  Just because a more expensive product exists doesn't mean that I blindly buy it.  In the case of the Haida, I did the research, looked at a lot of pictures taken with it, then took a flyer on it.  I had a great experience with the first, enough so that I bought a second in another filter size that I have been equally pleased with.  In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Haida is actually using the same glass manufacturer as B+W.  Because of that, I have not problem recommending them to someone else.

BTW, I tried a circular polarizer filter from Haida when I switched to an 82mm filter size.  Didn't like it at all - not because of the optics, but because I found the rotating ring very stiff and virtually unusable in the field.  The seller replaced it with a second copy, but I wasn't crazy about it, either. I ended up spending the money on a Hoya Pro-1D filter which I'm perfectly happy with.  I certainly won't recommend that Haida CP to someone, but the ND filters I've had great success with.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: ksuweh on April 29, 2013, 01:07:47 PM
Maybe a little off the subject, but I just don't get how someone can spend so much money on a Canon L lens like the 16-35 II & then buy the cheapest filter they can find to put on the lens! I mean I like a great deal just as much as the nest guy, but at what cost to the IQ. The whole point of spending the extra money & buying an L is for the superior IQ. Why wouldn't you do the same & spend the extra on the filter that you put in front of that expensive L glass??? It makes no sense to me.

A valid point, but as a person who normally uses good quality (I typically use the higher levels of Hoya filters - Pro1D or equivalent), I can certainly attest to the fact that the advantages over premium filters (beyond the better Hoya level) are going to be imperceptible to almost every eye.  Just because a more expensive product exists doesn't mean that I blindly buy it.  In the case of the Haida, I did the research, looked at a lot of pictures taken with it, then took a flyer on it.  I had a great experience with the first, enough so that I bought a second in another filter size that I have been equally pleased with.  In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think Haida is actually using the same glass manufacturer as B+W.  Because of that, I have not problem recommending them to someone else.

BTW, I tried a circular polarizer filter from Haida when I switched to an 82mm filter size.  Didn't like it at all - not because of the optics, but because I found the rotating ring very stiff and virtually unusable in the field.  The seller replaced it with a second copy, but I wasn't crazy about it, either. I ended up spending the money on a Hoya Pro-1D filter which I'm perfectly happy with.  I certainly won't recommend that Haida CP to someone, but the ND filters I've had great success with.

I would rather spend a few extra dollars for a B&W then buy from a company that the workmanship is hit or miss, just like you described with your Haida filters. Buy it once & you don't have the hassle or expense of returning it & getting something to replace it. I'd rather not waste my time or money like that. My original comment was directed at the optics, but overall craftsmanship & quality is very important as well to me. I want the products I buy to last & don't want to have to return the item or replace it in a few years down the road.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: alumahrivkah on November 30, 2013, 12:40:47 PM
Here's a few examples of long time exposures with the B+W .
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8263/8681129498_4915a9eb1a_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8681129498/)
_K8A0116 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8681129498/#) by barrfly1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/72565153@N00/), on Flickr

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8517/8561289691_ca1b3d8189_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561289691/)
_MG_0245 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561289691/#) by barrfly1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/72565153@N00/), on Flickr

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8561263373_dd97b36918_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561263373/)
_MG_0216 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72565153@N00/8561263373/#) by barrfly1 (http://www.flickr.com/people/72565153@N00/), on Flickr

 The last photo has the color cast intact , it's not terrible .
If you do decide to go with the screw on filter, don't forget to purchase some stop-down rings so you can use it on other lenses !

How are you getting these shots with no vignetting?  I have the B+W 10.0 and got terrible vignetting?  Am I missing some special setting or something?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: JustMeOregon on November 30, 2013, 02:35:17 PM
I don't have any vignetting problems with my B+W 10-stop filters... No problems with the 82mm filter on my 24-70 or 16-35 lenses, or the 77mm filter with my 24-105 lens & a full frame 5d3... Now I do have big-time issues with the color cast of the B+W's! Color correcting the indego-blue of my Lee Big Stopper is a breeze compared to dealing with the peculiar orangey-magentaish brown tint of the B+W's, and they're not cheap filters! I may have to look into the Haida filters for when I don't want to hassle with the whole Lee filter kit...
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: JustMeOregon on November 30, 2013, 03:24:28 PM
@ Dustin

I would love to find a screw-in 10-stop ND filter who's color cast is easy to deal with! Those Haida filters of yours look very interesting... A quick Google of "Haida filters" found me this site where the reviewer does what appears to be a very careful & thorough comparison of the Haida filters with the B+W's: http://text.flowtographyberlin.de/neutral-density-filters-are-haida-nd-filters-as-good-as-bw/2/ (http://text.flowtographyberlin.de/neutral-density-filters-are-haida-nd-filters-as-good-as-bw/2/) Are your observations regarding the Haida filters similar to his? Particularly with regards to the color cast? His sample images comparing the color casts of the B+W's, the Haida Pro II MC (multi-coated), and the Haida non-coated are particularly interesting. In item #7 of the review, he points out that the color cast of the multi-coated Haida filters are quite similar to that of the B+W's. He appears to show that it is only the non-coated Haidas which exhibit a "slightly cool cast to it which is rather neutral and easy to fix." Has this been your experience also?

Lastly, where in the world do you buy the Haidas? A quick check with the usual suspects came up empty...
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: JustMeOregon on November 30, 2013, 04:36:44 PM
OOP! Just realized that this thread is more that 6 months old... I'll figure out how to read one day...
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on December 02, 2013, 08:36:54 AM
@ Dustin

I would love to find a screw-in 10-stop ND filter who's color cast is easy to deal with! Those Haida filters of yours look very interesting... A quick Google of "Haida filters" found me this site where the reviewer does what appears to be a very careful & thorough comparison of the Haida filters with the B+W's: http://text.flowtographyberlin.de/neutral-density-filters-are-haida-nd-filters-as-good-as-bw/2/ (http://text.flowtographyberlin.de/neutral-density-filters-are-haida-nd-filters-as-good-as-bw/2/) Are your observations regarding the Haida filters similar to his? Particularly with regards to the color cast? His sample images comparing the color casts of the B+W's, the Haida Pro II MC (multi-coated), and the Haida non-coated are particularly interesting. In item #7 of the review, he points out that the color cast of the multi-coated Haida filters are quite similar to that of the B+W's. He appears to show that it is only the non-coated Haidas which exhibit a "slightly cool cast to it which is rather neutral and easy to fix." Has this been your experience also?

Lastly, where in the world do you buy the Haidas? A quick check with the usual suspects came up empty...

My experience is that the ND64x has no color cast at all, the ND1000 has only a very, very faint cast.  I'm quite happy with the filters.  I've purchased mine off Ebay from a "retailer" in Europe.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: davidrf on December 09, 2013, 01:38:05 PM
I'm about to buy a ND filter for Tamron 24-70 and Canon 16-35 L II and I still have to decide between Haida ND Neutro Pro II MC ND1000 and HOYA 82mm HMC Neutral Density ND400 Filter.

Normally I'd prefer to buy Hoya, but the vignetting at 16mm worries me. From the pics is clear that the Haida is much slimmer than the Hoya, and so it should give less vignetting.

Any help? Thaks
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on December 09, 2013, 08:13:31 PM
I'm about to buy a ND filter for Tamron 24-70 and Canon 16-35 L II and I still have to decide between Haida ND Neutro Pro II MC ND1000 and HOYA 82mm HMC Neutral Density ND400 Filter.

Normally I'd prefer to buy Hoya, but the vignetting at 16mm worries me. From the pics is clear that the Haida is much slimmer than the Hoya, and so it should give less vignetting.

Any help? Thaks

Don't have any experience with the latter, but I can attest that the Haida is very, very slim and has worked well for me.
Title: Re: Screw-on ND filter for 16-35 II
Post by: THX723 on December 10, 2013, 05:19:00 PM
I don't have any vignetting problems with my B+W 10-stop filters... No problems with the 82mm filter on my 24-70 or 16-35 lenses, or the 77mm filter with my 24-105 lens & a full frame 5d3... Now I do have big-time issues with the color cast of the B+W's! Color correcting the indego-blue of my Lee Big Stopper is a breeze compared to dealing with the peculiar orangey-magentaish brown tint of the B+W's, and they're not cheap filters! I may have to look into the Haida filters for when I don't want to hassle with the whole Lee filter kit...

@ Dustin

I would love to find a screw-in 10-stop ND filter who's color cast is easy to deal with! Those Haida filters of yours look very interesting... A quick Google of "Haida filters" found me this site where the reviewer does what appears to be a very careful & thorough comparison of the Haida filters with the B+W's: http://text.flowtographyberlin.de/neutral-density-filters-are-haida-nd-filters-as-good-as-bw/2/ (http://text.flowtographyberlin.de/neutral-density-filters-are-haida-nd-filters-as-good-as-bw/2/) Are your observations regarding the Haida filters similar to his? Particularly with regards to the color cast? His sample images comparing the color casts of the B+W's, the Haida Pro II MC (multi-coated), and the Haida non-coated are particularly interesting. In item #7 of the review, he points out that the color cast of the multi-coated Haida filters are quite similar to that of the B+W's. He appears to show that it is only the non-coated Haidas which exhibit a "slightly cool cast to it which is rather neutral and easy to fix." Has this been your experience also?

Lastly, where in the world do you buy the Haidas? A quick check with the usual suspects came up empty...

Agreed. It was due to the quirky color cast that I prefer Hoya over B+W, when it comes to circular ND filters. For everything else other than ND filters, I do in fact prefer B+W.

Here's a shameless plug of my search for the elusive Hoya ND X400 in 82mm a year ago ...
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11564.msg206728.html#msg206728 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,11564.msg206728.html#msg206728)

A year later, I've given up the quest for the above ND X400 filter. Alas I did eventually find some, but they were incredibly expensive (price gouging?); not worth it.

But wait, there's better news ... Hoya has just launched a whole new line of ND filters -- The PRO-ND series with no color cast!?! (I would love to verify this myself) 8)

Even better that it comes in 82mm (Hooray for 16-35 II & 24-70 II peeps!), up to 10 stops (previously 9 for ND X series), and reasonably priced. It's win, win, win. The search is over folks!

http://www.hoyafilter.com/news/press/N0000026/ (http://www.hoyafilter.com/news/press/N0000026/)

B&H has them in stock btw. :)