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Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: gjones5252 on April 26, 2013, 10:30:31 AM

Title: Street Photography Advice... now with Eos-M
Post by: gjones5252 on April 26, 2013, 10:30:31 AM
I have a 14 day trip to indonesia at the end of the summer. I love street photography and would like that to be a huge part of the trip while i am there.
I currently have a canon 5d III, 5d II, 24-105,70-2002.8 ii, 85 1.8, 50 1.8, 16-35 ii, 100mm 2.8.
I also have the canon AE-1 and a 50mm 1.8.
I feel like having the AE-1 has changed the way i look at street photography.
Its such an easier smaller form.
So i have been looking at a few options as i dont want to take this full list of lenses to Indonesia.
1-Fuji Film X100s-fast focusing(sorta), small form, good focal length-fixed lens
2-Sigma 35 F/1.4 incredible sharp(apparently), works with 5d iii
3-renting a leica for that time period and see if that is the way i want to go

I shoot in such a photojournalistic style at what ever i do(event, wedding, street, portraits) i want to make sure the equipment i have fits that agenda.
I have been hoping forever that canon would come out with some digital randefinder but unless this new EOS M rumors comes true and is out of character for canon i am still back to these 3 options as far as i can tell...Thanks in advance for all your help.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: ryan00013 on April 26, 2013, 06:40:57 PM
I had a similar dilemma myself recently:

1. I now own a Fuji X100s and LOVE it for street photography. Please note, I'm a little biased here because it is my newest toy.

2. I considered it, but the 5DIII is still huge and draws a lot more attention in comparison to the X100s and. (I've shot a fair bit of street photography with 5D III + 50L combo).

3. I still do want to rent a Leica myself and try it out. However, with the auto-focusing being so darn good on the two aforementioned cameras, I find myself wondering how many shots I would be willing to miss to obtain the "Leica experience." All comments mentioned below about Leica assume a Leica m9 with Leica class.

One thing to take into consideration is what "type" of street photography shooter you are. If you hang back and  wait for shots, you are less likely to be noticed with any camera. Mark Carey does some amazing street photography work with the 5DIII. However, if you are a "wanderer" like me, I have found the X100s to be a dream in good light (phase detect focusing engages in good light). I'm sure the Leica would be just as great.

Each setup has it's own pros/cons. I'll give my view of each. For reference, I have owned the following:
Currently owned: Cameras -  Canon 5D3, Fuji X100s.
Lens - Canons: 50L, 85L II, 70-200 IS II, Tamron 24-70,
Previously owned: Cameras - Sony RX100, Sony NEX-6, Fuji X100, Canon T3i,
Lens - Canons: 35L, 40mm pancake, 50 1.8, 85 1.8, 18-55 IS II, 70-200 f/4L,
Sigmas: 30 1.4, 50 1.4, 85 1.4, 17-50 OS, Tokina 11-16

Auto-Focus:
The 5D III + Sigma 35 wins. Fuji X100s is no slouch in good daylight, but it's still no 5D III either. In the dark it is still accurate, just slower. However, I find it good enough about 95% of the time. Leica - no AF

Manual focusing:
Winner: Leica - Duh. In second place comes the Fuji X100s. The focus peaking is great and digital split focus is pretty cool. (I prefer the focus peaking). The Fuji also has a distance meter that is a GREAT help if you want to use zone focusing. I hate manually focusing the 5D III. With world class AF, why would I anyways?

Size:
Fuji X100s wins here - the smallest and only "pocketable" option of the three. I love the small discreet size. This also plays into the "stealth" factor as well. Leica's are also great, just not quite as small. The 5D III is a huge beast. Gaffer taped or not, the 5DIII is really noticeable.

Lens options:
5DIII and Leica tie. However, if you are comfortable shooting 35mm only, then the Fuji lens is actually really good.

IQ:
5DIII ^ Leica > Fuji. It's about what you'd expect. The 5DIII excellent sensor + Sigma 35 will offer the greatest resolution photos. Though, IQ isn't all about resolution and some will argue and say the Leica has that special "Leica" look that trumps all. Though not quite as good as the other two, some people love the way that the X100s renders color. Even with the lowest resolution of the 3, the Fuji's 16mp sensor still leaves room for decent cropping. I have no hesitation in using the Fuji for professional work and have used it multiple times for that use.

Handling:
Many will say the Leica. I've never used one, so can't comment. However, I can say the X100s is the most fun to use and is my favorite camera EVER. The manual dials are great! Also, see the "viewfinder" section below) I love my 5DIII and it feels great for a DSLR; but... it's not very fun to carry around and use for a long session.

Viewfinder:
Fuji X100s BY FAR. The hybrid viewfinder in the X100s is the best I have ever used (many reviewers state this as well). I won't even attempt to explain it. Just about every review gushes on about how great it is. I'd recommend trying one for yourself. The Leica's are great if you want the rangefinder experience but lack any "live view" options. The 5DIII is good and but "live view" is only available via the LCD.

ISO performance:
Fuji X100s will offer the cleanest files at low light, even beating out the 5DIII. This is about the only place that Leica comes in last.

Build:
All 3 have excellent build quality so no reasons for concern here. (please keep in mind that the Sigma 35 and the X100s are NOT weather sealed)

Discreetness:
Fuji X100s. It is the smallest and quietest camera of the 3. The shutter is hardly perceptible in most environments, even for the photographer. I've heard the Leica shutter is pretty quiet and as mentioned earlier, it's smaller size. That Leica logo may attract attention from lustful photographers here and there. The 5DIII's silent shutter is great, but it's a huge beast.

Overall:
That's up to you. I went with a Fuji X100s for street shooting and it comes with me as my every day camera as well. I keep my 5DIII at home for portrait and event shoots. For me, it was an "either/or" situation, meaning I can't afford a Leica without selling my 5DIII kit. No matter how great the Leica's manual focusing is, there are just times then the 5DIII's auto-focus does what I simply couldn't using manual focus (*note my limitation, not Leica's). If Leica ever makes an AF-capable body, I'll seriously consider selling my kit for it. My current setup works perfectly for my needs; Fuji X100s + Canon 5DIII, Canon 50L, Canon 85L II, Tamron 24-70 VC, Canon 70-200 IS II.

*Side note #1: Please note that I have never owned or used a Leica. My knowledge of them is limited to the 40 or 50 hours I spent researching them when I was seriously considering buying one. I think they are amazing cameras, but it just isn't a good fit for me currently. If money were no issue? You can bet I'd have one.

*Side note #2: If you decide to go with the Fuji X100s, buy two extra batteries (as the battery life is about 300 shots) Also, be sure to buy a high-performance SD card for the X100s as it improves the cameras performance noticeably. Another bonus is the 1/4000 flash sync speed. I haven't used this yet, but it can allow for some amazing creative opportunities with an external flash.

And... first post done. :)
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: distant.star on April 26, 2013, 07:54:18 PM
.
ryan00013:

Best first post I've ever seen!

Hope you'll stick around.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: Click on April 26, 2013, 07:56:33 PM
Great first post. Welcome to cr.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: Hobby Shooter on April 26, 2013, 09:06:31 PM
Two things:
1, End of summer it will rain quite a lot, take that into account
2, Jakarta can be a rather dangerous city, if possible get a local guide to go with you and keep your gear close

J
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: gjones5252 on April 26, 2013, 09:40:10 PM
I am throuroghly impressed! That was an amazing post sir! Thank you for the valuable input.
We will be going in the beginning of August. So if it will still be rainy that does sound like a factor in my decision making.
So far your review of the x100s only seems to back up what I am reading else where. I just want to make sure it is something I can use in combination with the other things I use my cameras for.
Sounds like I need to find a place where I can try both a Leica and a x100s to see what feel I want. I feel like with the x100s I am making a temporary investment whereas with the Leica or sigma it's more long term and usability.
So far that is what's keeping me from going to a x100s.
If canon made a Leica type design using ef or Efs lenses they would have my money faster than anything but eos m just is t cutting it yet.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: distant.star on April 26, 2013, 11:07:10 PM
.
You may find Craig's review helpful:

http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/the-leica-m9-experience-review/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/reviews/the-leica-m9-experience-review/)

Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: johnrudoff@yahoo.com on April 27, 2013, 04:12:49 PM
I could not possibly match the diligence of Ryan's post. Just a couple of comments.
1. Size and shutter sound matter, but probably not as much as you think. The reason is that you will almost certainly stand out in whatever venue in Indonesia you are shooting, and you'll just have to use your wit and streetsmarts to be able to smooth your way through whatever inquiries (official or otherwise) you may get.
2. You have enough kit for anything up to a moon landing. Just take the camera(s) you handle best. Above all, do NOT try to learn new gear on a critical shoot or expensive  vacation. Rent the gear if you must; bvut spend a few days full time playing with before you board your aircraft. I learned the hard way ...
Have fun. John
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: ChilledXpress on April 27, 2013, 04:19:24 PM
+1 for the Fuji X100S
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: gjones5252 on April 29, 2013, 01:00:18 AM
I could not possibly match the diligence of Ryan's post. Just a couple of comments.
1. Size and shutter sound matter, but probably not as much as you think. The reason is that you will almost certainly stand out in whatever venue in Indonesia you are shooting, and you'll just have to use your wit and streetsmarts to be able to smooth your way through whatever inquiries (official or otherwise) you may get.
2. You have enough kit for anything up to a moon landing. Just take the camera(s) you handle best. Above all, do NOT try to learn new gear on a critical shoot or expensive  vacation. Rent the gear if you must; bvut spend a few days full time playing with before you board your aircraft. I learned the hard way ...
Have fun. John
Thanks thats good wisdom. I appreciate everyones responses. Due to Price the Leica is in no way happening before this trip. sad but its how life works.
The x100s is still a possibility as is a new lens.
Anyone know any good places to read some tips on street photography? I think by reading that and working with my current equipment i can see what i am missing and see what i really want in a new item.??
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: ryan00013 on April 30, 2013, 06:03:52 PM
Anyone know any good places to read some tips on street photography? I think by reading that and working with my current equipment i can see what i am missing and see what i really want in a new item.??

Here are a few articles:

I've found Erik Kim's blog to be pretty useful:
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/start-here/ (http://erickimphotography.com/blog/start-here/)

This is a great article on 35 vs. 50mm for street photography:
http://www.yanidel.net/2011/02/28/35mm-or-50mm-for-street-photography/ (http://www.yanidel.net/2011/02/28/35mm-or-50mm-for-street-photography/)


And here are some good street photographers who use each respective camera. A quick look at any of their sites will make you realize that no matter which camera you pick, you can make it work for street photography.

Brian Kraft is a great street photographer (uses Fuji X100s):
http://www.briankraft.com/Blog/personal/fuji-x100s-street-photography/ (http://www.briankraft.com/Blog/personal/fuji-x100s-street-photography/)

I recently discovered Mark Carey and was super impressed (Uses 5D3 with Canon 35 f/2):
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/24540/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/24540/)

Steve Huff is also a well-known street photographer who also writes great gear reviews (Uses Leica M)
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/who-am-i/my-portfolio-street-photography/ (http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/who-am-i/my-portfolio-street-photography/)

Also, I have found zone focusing in good light a GREAT way to make sure you don't miss shots. I usually hover around f/8 and pre-focused about 10 feet away. It usually puts everything from about 6 ft to 100ft in reasonable focus.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: dirtcastle on April 30, 2013, 07:56:58 PM
If I were starting from scratch, I would get the X100s.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: Redder on April 30, 2013, 08:12:04 PM
I'd like to share my experience on street photography in Asia.

I was in Shanghai in summer two years ago for a month, spending almost everyday doing street photography, mostly people shooting on the street.

I had with me a 5D original with 2 lenses only, a 50mm 1.8 (mark 1) and 17-40 4.0L.

The 50mm 1.8 was wonderful that it was able to let me left the background soft and out of focus in very busy and crowded streets, and the 17-40L was used on days when there were light rains because it is weather sealed.

One full charge on the 5D battery can easily last more than a days' shooting with plenty of review time on the LCD.
My 5D back AE button was set to focus, I shot with centre point focus and reframe, focus had been spot-on even using full opening 1.8 with the 50mm on the street. (With full opening 1.8, can't leave it to the camera to pick a focus point, at the same time manually selecting another focus point is often too slow when shooting on the street).

Among the roughly 3,000 files  I took during the time using these 2 lenses, the 50mm 1.8 represented 70-80 percent.

I didn't find myself wanting for more lens, and like the relative light total weight of the equipment.

Hope you have a wonderful time in Indo.

 
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: JonB8305 on April 30, 2013, 08:38:11 PM
I was in Jakarta last month with a 6D 24-105 Kit.

I'd say take the 5d and 16-35 and you'd be set for street photography, take the 70-200 if you have room if not, just take the 85.

One or two locals did not appreciate me taking pics so I'd go wide angle so you can look one way and still get everyone in the shot without causing a disturbance.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: Hobby Shooter on April 30, 2013, 08:59:23 PM
Anyone know any good places to read some tips on street photography? I think by reading that and working with my current equipment i can see what i am missing and see what i really want in a new item.??

Here are a few articles:

I've found Erik Kim's blog to be pretty useful:
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/start-here/ (http://erickimphotography.com/blog/start-here/)

This is a great article on 35 vs. 50mm for street photography:
http://www.yanidel.net/2011/02/28/35mm-or-50mm-for-street-photography/ (http://www.yanidel.net/2011/02/28/35mm-or-50mm-for-street-photography/)


And here are some good street photographers who use each respective camera. A quick look at any of their sites will make you realize that no matter which camera you pick, you can make it work for street photography.

Brian Kraft is a great street photographer (uses Fuji X100s):
http://www.briankraft.com/Blog/personal/fuji-x100s-street-photography/ (http://www.briankraft.com/Blog/personal/fuji-x100s-street-photography/)

I recently discovered Mark Carey and was super impressed (Uses 5D3 with Canon 35 f/2):
http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/24540/ (http://www.markcareyphotography.com/2013/24540/)

Steve Huff is also a well-known street photographer who also writes great gear reviews (Uses Leica M)
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/who-am-i/my-portfolio-street-photography/ (http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/who-am-i/my-portfolio-street-photography/)

Also, I have found zone focusing in good light a GREAT way to make sure you don't miss shots. I usually hover around f/8 and pre-focused about 10 feet away. It usually puts everything from about 6 ft to 100ft in reasonable focus.

Great links, I especially liked Steve Huff. There's a lot for me to learn there.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: tiltshift on April 30, 2013, 10:19:31 PM
I am going to be useless and suggest the x-e1 or xpro1. (i know this is possibly making the decision harder but......)

I am also going on a trip this summer (Switzerland, Germany, France, Czech Republic), and much like you I have 5D3, 70-200isII, 24-702.8II, 16-35II, 100-400is, zeiss 50, 85, 40, and a few older cheap zooms, plus all my film equipment, flashes, accessories, you get the picture......

I decided to buy the X-E1. I have done a fair bit of shooting/testing with it and the image quality is suburb! (14, 18, 35, 60 lenses)

I feel like this is a ideal travel camera because of its small un-intruding size and its minimal weight. I feel like the 5d3 70-200 combo weights more then my whole Fuji kit (I am almost certainly wrong but it feels this way!!!). I will say I lean more towards landscape and city-scape where the Fuji's major flaw is less of an issue. As you may have read elsewhere the focusing can be slow and under certain circumstances hunt a fair bit. I am not a major street shooter so the magnitude of this drawback is unknown to me, but for the little bit I do it has worked.

I also should mention I reached this decision as I will NOT have somewhere safe to leave my camera, as such I will have it with me 24-7 for 1 month. I was not so afraid of the theft of my canon gear as I was concerned with the weight after a week or two (begin to hate carrying it and as resentment grows stop taking pictures all together, which defeats the one of the reasons I am going :( ). for you this may not be as large of an issue, either with weight or safe keeping.

I am also traveling with laptop tons of filters, tripod, accessories as such the weight like I mentioned was a MAJOR factor. But as much as I wanted to shave weight I ultimately "have" to have "great" photos, and to that extent the Fuji DOESN'T disappoint one bit. 

I hope this if nothing else makes your final decision with one of the options you presented above more "cross-referenced" for lack of a better word


p.s.
-I swore the next lens/camera purchase I was going to make was the 35 sigma, not one bit disappointed not having it even though I desperately miss my 35L....
-fuji x100s as a secondary to the 5d3 is a great idea IMHO and based on my experiences with my Fuji you will love it.
-I have NO experiences with Leica, other then laser distance finders so no comment or comparison here :(
- regardless of what you buy and ultimately travel with I am certain you will have great photos and have a total blast!!


Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: gjones5252 on July 06, 2013, 12:56:58 PM
so i am getting even closer to the trip! i leave on july 20!
I made a pretty quick mindset change when i saw the eos-m going fo so cheap. i caved and ordered it. with the 22mm.
i think i will enjoy it as 35mm has quickly become my favorite shooting length.
any owners have any reviews for street photography especially with the new firmware upgrade.
i am going there for a purpose so i will also be taking video equipment along with my camera equipment. so i will without a doubt have my 5dm3 plus 16-35 i am just hoping the M will make it a little bit more fun. thanks for everyones advice and encouragement. I think i will also remember everyones comments to also enjoy the location and not try to overwhelm my self with just always hunting for shots...
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice... now with Eos-M
Post by: MARKOE PHOTOE on July 08, 2013, 03:57:34 PM
You might consider the Fuji XE1 or the newly released XM1 which will have an articulating screen which might make this a great camera for street photography.  One of the assets of the XE1 & the XM1 is the options to choose a focal length whereas the X100s is limited in that regard.
I picked up a used XE1 with two lenses: 20mm f2.0 and 35mm f1.4 that are both stellar lightweight and sharp lenses. 
The XM1 is a bit smaller than the XE1 hence, more pocket-able.  I carried the XE1 for about 10 hours at an amusement park with both lenses and never once felt fatigued with extra weight and didn't really attract any attention that you might get from a big-white or 5D body.
If nothing else, rent the camera and a few lenses to check them out first. This is what I did before buying a used set.
Lastly, there is also the Canon EOS-M which use your other Canon EF lenses with the Canon adapter. 

Best of luck
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice...
Post by: expatinasia on July 09, 2013, 05:00:33 AM
Two things:
1, End of summer it will rain quite a lot, take that into account
2, Jakarta can be a rather dangerous city, if possible get a local guide to go with you and keep your gear close

J

These are two very important points for you to think about. Generally AP is very, very safe, but Jakarta is one place you do have to be very careful when wandering the streets.

It is an enormous, sprawling city, with some of the worse traffic you have ever seen, and there is no train (underground or skytrain) system to speak of. Throw rain, heat and humidity into that mix and not a lot of people walk great distances.

I love Jakarta, and the whole of Indonesia, but do be very careful and pack your gear accordingly.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Street Photography Advice... now with Eos-M
Post by: captainkanji on July 09, 2013, 07:13:21 AM
If you want to be stealthy and get up close, use as small of a camera as you can.  I only have a DSLR, so I have to use the long lens and snipe from a distance.  I prefer this method as I do not like to be seen and don't want people to know.  Hard to do with a big white lens, so I'll hide and wait for the right moment.  I also can't stand the idea of using a flash when photographing people on the street.  If you don't mind annoying your victims, go for it.  Eric Kim doesn't seem to mind.