canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on August 09, 2011, 09:45:07 PM

Title: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Canon Rumors on August 09, 2011, 09:45:07 PM
From Germany I received a price list from a German dealer today, omitted on the price list was the 1Ds Mark III and 1D Mark IV. The dealer is a pro dealer.

5D Mark II Crazy Price Best Buy dumping 5D Mark II’s for what appears to be below cost.

Visit Best Buy 5D Mark II Listing

Canon Australia bug or more? The 5D Mark II is listed twice on the Canon Australia web site, it wasn’t like this a little while ago. A placeholder or a mistake?

http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/For-You/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras

*UPDATE* It was pointed out to me that if you click the second 5D Mark II link, the URL says “6D” at the end. *thanks Mike*

Nothing else too crazy today.

cr

Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on August 09, 2011, 11:15:34 PM
I'm always wary of stores that advertise low prices on out of stock equipment.  The price has a way of jumping back up wen it gets in stock.  They may do this to attract traffic to their site.  (Bait and switch).

Here is a good example of a camera that you will never see at the listed price.  Check out nikon's advertised price for a refurb D3S which is never in stock, of course.  its cheaper than the D3 which is in stock!
  http://shop.nikonusa.com/store/nikonusa/en_US/list/Refurbished_Cameras/parentCategoryID.43896400/categoryID.43896500/?sortBy=high&resid=Ti2LHAoBAlUAAEVjANEAAABH&rests=1312945998467
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: dr croubie on August 09, 2011, 11:48:35 PM
It was pointed out to me that if you click the second 5D Mark II link, the URL says “6D” at the end. <em>*thanks Mike*</em></p>

i'm sure i'm not the only one who played around with the endings of the URL.
1DS, 1Dmk4, 5D, 6D (the second link from 5Dmk2), 7D work.
but 1DSmk4, 1Dmk5, 3D, 4D, go to a 404page.

damn. i hope it is a placeholder and not a bug. but 6D (split of 5Dmk2 line perhaps?) coming before 1Ds4/1D5? unfortunately i don't think so...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: JasonM on August 09, 2011, 11:59:04 PM
damn. i hope it is a placeholder and not a bug. but 6D (split of 5Dmk2 line perhaps?) coming before 1Ds4/1D5? unfortunately i don't think so...

Can't be a typo... someone in the web dept created the "6D" page and replicated the 5Dmk2 info.  I'm not saying it's a 6D put definitely a placeholder.  Or someone at Canon putting out some fodder for us to chew on.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: AG on August 10, 2011, 12:59:39 AM
Heres hoping that they do split the 5D line and the 6D becomes the "video focused" FF DSLR that people want the 5D3 to be.

That way the 5D3 will not be bastardised with Video for the puritans and the 6D can be a whole new line of primarily  dedicated video DSLRs.

Actually the 6D kinda makes sense too because we have had the 60D and the 600D.

I wonder if this means that they could eventually can the 7D?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: dr croubie on August 10, 2011, 01:25:57 AM
I wonder if this means that they could eventually can the 7D?

Can the 7D for what?
putting all the features (fps, afma, 19ptaf, sealing) that make it better than the 60D, with APS-C, into a 70D? possible, but then it's just a 7Dmk2 with a different name. leaves too much price room between the 600D and 70D too. more price points at the lower end make people spend.

take the FPS and AF, put it into a FF camera? then there's no 'sports' APS-C for a start, and it would rip sales from under the APS-H 1Dmk4 unless it's similarly priced to the 1D4 (then it becomes a 'ff+8fps+19ptaf' vs '1.3x+10fps+45ptaf' decision, i think all but sports pros would take the FF).

If the 6D is going to be anything, it's going to be video version of the 5D mk2. maybe same 21mp sensor with raw video? or 5D3 is built more like the 7D, 30ish MP and 5-6fps with same video as now, 6D is then same 30ish MP, 2-3fps, bult like 5D2 now, with a pellicle mirror for video AF (or somehow better video AF)?

or maybe an APS-H sports camera, maybe same specs as 7D, lower fps than the 1D4 but gripless body and not a 1-series tank. (that's just 7Dmk2 with a different name so people realise you can't use EF-S on it.) doubtful.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: zhap03 on August 10, 2011, 01:32:41 AM
It's not just Best Buy that has dropped the price of the 5d2.  Futureshop, Vistek, Camera Store...
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: hambergler on August 10, 2011, 01:37:04 AM
I don't get why they would drop their price even if there is an announcement because wouldn't their replacement be 3-6 months away?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: WarStreet on August 10, 2011, 01:56:03 AM
The D700 has decreased in price too on best buy while in stock, due to a sale.

Sale: $2,267.99
Reg. Price: $2,699.99
You Save: $432.00

I doubt that a 5D split will be video related as I don't think it is feasible for Canon such a split. If the split occurs, might be more like we used to see in the 1Ds and 1D differences. 

Is it possible that the surprise will be the split, and that we might see one version announced soon, and the other a bit later next year ? Diversification, is a powerful tool for increasing sales. 


Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: leGreve on August 10, 2011, 04:04:43 AM
Nothing amazing about that best buy price... It's been that price for quite a while here in Denmark.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 10, 2011, 06:16:18 AM
It's not just Best Buy that has dropped the price of the 5d2.  Futureshop, Vistek, Camera Store...

Canon may have dropped the wholesale cost.  If so, why?

FWIW, Best Buy has done this before (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,998.msg13168.html#msg13168) - although then, the 5DII was not actually in stock anywhere, it still led to lots of speculation here.  They also previously listed (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,950.msg12601.html#msg12601) the 5DII as discontinued. 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: thenickdude on August 10, 2011, 07:13:44 AM
The duplicated page is back up at Canon Australia's site. It remains identical to the 5D Mark II page, however.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Steve Campbell on August 10, 2011, 07:15:47 AM
Aden Camera here in Canada has the 5DII listed at $2200 and a bit for the body and $2900 and a bit for the 24-105 kit. That's as cheap as I have seen them. This is what people have been asking for these used. I suspect used prices will drop if this keeps up.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: surfing_geek on August 10, 2011, 07:50:18 AM
The duplicated page is back up at Canon Australia's site. It remains identical to the 5D Mark II page, however.

except that the URL stills shows it as the 6D:

http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/For-You/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras/6D

Probably just a typo.....Would be nice to think they're getting the space ready for an imminent announcement, though I can't see that they would do it like that.

I still think we'll be waiting a good few months for any substantial announcements.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Redreflex on August 10, 2011, 08:14:59 AM
I don't get why they would drop their price even if there is an announcement because wouldn't their replacement be 3-6 months away?

And the price appears to be back up to the regular 2499
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: dstppy on August 10, 2011, 09:02:55 AM
I don't get why they would drop their price even if there is an announcement because wouldn't their replacement be 3-6 months away?

And the price appears to be back up to the regular 2499
Right. I thought I got rickrolled for a minute there, $2.5k didn't sound like much of a deal.

BB does this all the time (makes price, listing errors).  Depending how big of the mistake, and how much time you have on your hands, if you can show a local store manager realtime, you can sometimes get a deal.  This has not been *MY* experience, but what I have read from others online.

Personally, I hate BB; I think they make WalMart look like a straightforward retailer.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: WarStreet on August 10, 2011, 09:41:50 AM
The D700 is back to normal price too !
Title: Re: Regarding the 6D "typo"...
Post by: pedro on August 10, 2011, 10:21:15 AM
FYI: According to NL an indian site had mentioned last December the possibility for a 6D. But maybe, it is obsolete stuff by now anyway. As it is a pre-Fukushima post:

"Canon may name the next product in this dSLR series, as either the EOS 6D or the EOS 5D Mark III. This product would succeed the current Canon EOS 5D Mark II. It may offer a 24 Megapixel sensor and dual DIGIC 4 processors. The 3-inch display may be an articulated LCD screen with 1.04 million dots. What is more, it may be touch sensitive, making it the first full-frame camera with such technology. When it is expected: This model from Canon's stables is expected to be available before the first half of 2011 ends."

Or would the articulated LCD touch screen stand for forementioned surprise in an earlier CR post??? Seems unlikely. Well, accodring to newer rumors, a 5D update would consist of one DIGIC V rather than dual DIGIC IV...

Here's the link to it: http://www.pcworld.in/news/5-most-awaited-cameras-2011-43492010

Regards, Pedro
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 10, 2011, 10:44:29 AM
BB does this all the time (makes price, listing errors).  Depending how big of the mistake, and how much time you have on your hands, if you can show a local store manager realtime, you can sometimes get a deal.  This has not been *MY* experience, but what I have read from others online.

I've had that experience - BB online listed the Vixia HF M41 at 15% lower than MSRP ($680 vs. $800), when it wasn't yet commonly available, and online retailers (B&H/Adorama) had it for full list price.  The BB website indicated stock available in my local store, so I went in - it wasn't even on display, but they did have the three units in the locked cabinet under the display case - and told me it was $850.  I mentioned the online price, and they sold it to me for that price without batting an eye.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: gene_can_sing on August 10, 2011, 10:59:19 AM
Heres hoping that they do split the 5D line and the 6D becomes the "video focused" FF DSLR that people want the 5D3 to be.

That way the 5D3 will not be bastardised with Video for the puritans and the 6D can be a whole new line of primarily  dedicated video DSLRs.

Actually the 6D kinda makes sense too because we have had the 60D and the 600D.

I wonder if this means that they could eventually can the 7D?

I agree with you 100%. I hope the 6D is the video-centric DSLR because you cannot make both camps happy as we all know by this forum. Maybe the 6D will be like the Nikon D700, a lower 12 mega-pixel but higher ISO performing camera with kick butt video features and codec.

Split line is the way of the future. Nothing worse than a watered down camera to please everyone.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: gravediggingaditch on August 10, 2011, 11:11:12 AM
While sitting at my desk yesterday, I came across the "sale" at best buy. I was shocked to come across it, especially with the talk about the 5d3 being around the corner and me thinking - should I just buy it now, or wait.  Only one store in the Miami area listed 5d2's in stock. . . . I quickly called a friend at Adorama to find out if he could match it. He laughed and said "no way". He thought I was bluffing and said, if they are selling it at that price, i'm going to best buy to pick up a few.  So, i printed out the internet price, drove to the store, and there was one in the back. It rang up at $2499.00 + Tax with no indication of the sale. I showed them the online price, they didn't hesitate, and I walked out. Happy new owner of a 5d2 now.

As for the Aussie Canon website. I could believe its feasible that canon could inadvertently create a 2nd webpage - but to also call it a 6d which has been rumored as a possible new name? Thats perhaps a little more than pure coincidence.  I gotta say, it shows something is up. Only time will tell. 
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: yankidank on August 10, 2011, 02:11:08 PM
Could someone please actually state the sale price that BestBuy was offering? The price is already back up to $2499, and no one thus far stated the sale price. Seems like basic information that they should have included in the OP.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Edwin Herdman on August 10, 2011, 02:13:38 PM
Could someone please actually state the sale price that BestBuy was offering? The price is already back up to $2499, and no one thus far stated the sale price. Seems like basic information that they should have included in the OP.
A bit late to the party in any case.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: yankidank on August 10, 2011, 02:16:03 PM
It's still good to know this information, should the price drop again in the future and people want to draw a comparison. As I said in my last post, it's best to post the information for archival purposes.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Edwin Herdman on August 10, 2011, 02:18:55 PM
Fair point, I apologize for jumping on you for that one.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: WoodyWindy on August 10, 2011, 02:19:26 PM
The duplicated page is back up at Canon Australia's site. It remains identical to the 5D Mark II page, however.

except that the URL stills shows it as the 6D:

http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/For-You/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras/6D

Probably just a typo.....Would be nice to think they're getting the space ready for an imminent announcement, though I can't see that they would do it like that.

I still think we'll be waiting a good few months for any substantial announcements.

This is actually almost standard M-O for Canon DSLR's. About 2 weeks prior to the real announcement, some Canon affiliated web site "accidentally" posts some tidbit about the soon-to-be-announced camera. In this case, it looks like it was the name. Other times, it was a photo, or a spec sheet, or even a full draft of the press release.

I'd say we can expect an EOS 6D to be announced anywhere from 1 to 3 weeks from now.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: lmederos on August 10, 2011, 02:22:42 PM
I don't get why they would drop their price even if there is an announcement because wouldn't their replacement be 3-6 months away?

And the price appears to be back up to the regular 2499

Yes, I was wondering why everyone was so excited.   What did BestBuy had it listed for ????
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: EYEONE on August 10, 2011, 02:31:34 PM
I don't get why they would drop their price even if there is an announcement because wouldn't their replacement be 3-6 months away?

And the price appears to be back up to the regular 2499

Yes, I was wondering why everyone was so excited.   What did BestBuy had it listed for ????

$2150 or something close to that. I can't remember exactly.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: amarlez on August 10, 2011, 03:09:25 PM
Here's my take on what's going to happen: the 5D Mark III and the 6D are going to be released simultaneously soon.

Because the Australian site has both listed, we can assume the 6D is going to be a new addition to the line and (if it exists) it's imminent. If the 6D is going to be a separate camera, the only reason for a price dip in the 5Ds (other than a fluke) would be a new 5D coming down the pipeline too.

And if we go with Canon's current pricing scheme where the price goes down as the numbers go up (1D>5D>7D), its price point is going be between the 5D and 7Ds.

My guess? The 6D is going to be a full-frame video-oriented SLR priced at around $2000 that will keep the major photo complaints everyone has had about the 5D line (autofocus, FPS, etc.) but target serious videographers with way better video features.

And the new 5D? A photo-centric lord of darkness with improved AF and Kryptonite to smite Nikon's D700 replacement. Maybe priced a little higher, but not too much so.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: x-vision on August 10, 2011, 03:15:34 PM

This is actually almost standard M-O for Canon DSLR's. About 2 weeks prior to the real announcement, some Canon affiliated web site "accidentally" posts some tidbit about the soon-to-be-announced camera. In this case, it looks like it was the name. Other times, it was a photo, or a spec sheet, or even a full draft of the press release.

I'd say we can expect an EOS 6D to be announced anywhere from 1 to 3 weeks from now.

While I agree about Canon's M-O for leaks, I don't see a 6D announced right now.

As the name suggests, a 6D would sit between the 7D and the 5DII.

The thing is, there's no need for an even more advanced 1.6x camera than the 7D.

But if the 6D is FF, what features could Canon possibly cripple, so that the 6D sits below the 5DII ??
Make it a 1-fps camera with just a single AF-point ??

I'd say that Canon Australia is pulling our proverbial leg here ;);).
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Super Mario on August 10, 2011, 03:48:02 PM
Let me tell you, there will be no camera with "more advanced" video features. Maybe less MP's, but that's it. Do you think that Canon makes one DSLR with good video codec and video features without updating the video features of the rest of the models? It will never happen as long as there are other DSLR brands on this planet. Just look what has happened so far. Every camera after 5D MKII have had better video features than 5D MKII and usually better features than the models released earlier. All the cameras will have same codecs and features. There might be a model in the future with things like XLR inputs etc, but the video features and codecs will be the same in sub 1k€ crop and on top of the line FF.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Stu_bert on August 10, 2011, 04:37:17 PM
Further rumour on one of the the forthcoming Sony dSLRs...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/10/unreleased-sony-alpha-a77-already-nominated-for-good-design-awar/

believe as much as you want....
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: amarlez on August 10, 2011, 05:17:33 PM
XLR inputs are the exact kinds of advanced video features a 6D would have — physical ones that are so substantial to a camera (XLR inputs are pretty large) that it would only be wise to include if they were going market toward video people.

As far as firmware goes, the entire line is probably going to be consistent. But what could some of these other physical things be? A rugged articulating screen, a video optimized sensor that focuses on moire instead of ISO, a hybrid mount that could fit EF and PL lenses, more video-friendly ergonomics. Though are just shots in the dark, but that's how Canon could fill the space between the 5D and the 7D with a video-oriented camera.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: fotoray on August 10, 2011, 05:42:35 PM
IMO -- If the 6D version emphasizes video, then it would likely have an articulating LCD like the 60D.  The 5DM3, emphasizing stills, would have a fixed LCD, but with increased resolution compared to 5DM2.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: c-law on August 10, 2011, 05:42:59 PM
What if the 5D Mark3 never appears and we get a 3D (next year) and a 6D this year?

And if the 3D moves up in terms of what it offers photographers and gets all of the hyped up video (even 3D video!) and the 6D becomes the FF DSLR "that also does video"?

Of course all of those 5D Mark2 owners that feel like their camera is linked to their ego will be suddenly overcome with waves on insecurity because a "lower model" camera will be better than theirs and will cry out in shame at how could Canon do this to them. Diddums.
That wouldn't happen. If a more advanced model comes out called the 3D, and a 5DII beating "FF DLSR that also does video" is released then why would Canon released it as a 6D and discontinue the 5D line? The makes no sense from their past naming patterns and no sense from a marketing perspective.

I believe the likeliest explanation is that when a new model is rumoured it is often referred to as the next number up in the naming series due to a confusion in Canon and Nikons naming practices (1D, 1D MkII, etc, vs D1, D2, D3). This is probably just someone who was told to code a new place holder page but who has no real information to work off just naming it something that makes sense to them.

Chris
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Super Mario on August 10, 2011, 05:50:18 PM
Articular screen is advanced video feature now? :D 3" screen is useless in professional enviorement. That doesn't belong to advanced video features list and will most likely be feature all Canon DSLR's have in the future.
Title: Re: 6D rumor on tech radar from June 16th
Post by: pedro on August 10, 2011, 06:39:29 PM
http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/top-10-new-camera-rumours-for-2011-931005
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Radovan III on August 10, 2011, 06:57:37 PM

Quote
5D Mark II Crazy Price

Best Buy dumping 5D Mark II’s for what appears to be below cost...




Check this out:
http://www.bccamera.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_16&products_id=1882

"Broadway Camera" is a reputable pro shop in Vancouver and is listing 5DMK2 for $2,299.99 .... sale price.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Redreflex on August 10, 2011, 07:05:15 PM
Quote
5D Mark II Crazy Price

Best Buy dumping 5D Mark II’s for what appears to be below cost...


Check this out:
http://www.bccamera.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_16&products_id=1882

"Broadway Camera" is a reputable pro shop in Vancouver and is listing 5DMK2 for $2,299.99 .... sale price.

And it says sale ends 29th August 2011 - maybe that's the day before the press release?
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: gravediggingaditch on August 10, 2011, 09:04:55 PM
Could someone please actually state the sale price that BestBuy was offering? The price is already back up to $2499, and no one thus far stated the sale price. Seems like basic information that they should have included in the OP.

The price Best Buy had it for was $2,123.99
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: wellfedCanuck on August 10, 2011, 09:24:28 PM
Quote
5D Mark II Crazy Price

Best Buy dumping 5D Mark II’s for what appears to be below cost...


Check this out:
http://www.bccamera.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_16&products_id=1882

"Broadway Camera" is a reputable pro shop in Vancouver and is listing 5DMK2 for $2,299.99 .... sale price.

And it says sale ends 29th August 2011 - maybe that's the day before the press release?
Futureshop has it on sale nation-wide for $2250:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-21-1mp-dslr-camera-body-only-select-stores-only/10114119.aspx?path=df997effa6eb42971890de5ce44fb665en02 (http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-21-1mp-dslr-camera-body-only-select-stores-only/10114119.aspx?path=df997effa6eb42971890de5ce44fb665en02)
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: mgotcher on August 10, 2011, 11:30:16 PM
Did you notice that the Australian canon site managers deleted the second 5d mark ii link.  This is such a strong rumor.  Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: AG on August 11, 2011, 01:44:49 AM
IMO -- If the 6D version emphasizes video, then it would likely have an articulating LCD like the 60D.  The 5DM3, emphasizing stills, would have a fixed LCD, but with increased resolution compared to 5DM2.

If you think about it this would make sense.

The current 6 Series (60D/600D) both have the articulated screen etc.

Whats to say that the 6D could not be the Full Frame more video focused version of what the 60D currently is.
 
eg. Get rid of the built in flash, Full Frame, dual SD cards etc.

Don't get me wrong i love my 60D but sometimes i just wish that it had a FF sensor and a few extra bells and whistles.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: amarlez on August 11, 2011, 09:32:35 AM
Quote
There's no rule anywhere that a product line needs to live forever.

True, but from a marketing standpoint, a 5D mark III would make more sense than a 3D. I think anyone thinking about a $2000-$3000 camera would know that a 3D doesn't mean a gimmicky camera that would shoot in 3D, but the 5D line has been one of Canon's most successful lines. If the 6D exists, I would even think they would want to milk the 5D name for all it's worth — call it the "5D Mark III" and call the photo version something like the "5Ds Mark III."
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: pedro on August 11, 2011, 09:51:54 AM
5DsIII - where can I put my order? ...;-) good point. agreed.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: ChrisP on August 11, 2011, 10:04:20 AM
Just wild guessing...

What if the following will be announced in August:


Perhaps a 6D will be a sort of updated 7D with an APS-H sensor
This could fill the gap from the 1D mkIV if that is retired.
(Why would Canon make an upgrade of 5D mkII and give it a less prestigious model number)

Then the 1D line could fusion into a new 1Ds fullframe.


This way there would be space in the model numbers for an upgraded 5D mkII next year.



I personally would not want a APS-H camera, and I actually thought the APS-H sensor size was to be retired until seeing this 6D indication. Actually I am quite confused with the 6D model number.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: KrisU on August 11, 2011, 02:02:14 PM
FYI, Canon refurbished 5DII are back in stock for $1999:
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_214217_-1

Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: c-law on August 11, 2011, 03:46:05 PM
What if the 5D Mark3 never appears and we get a 3D (next year) and a 6D this year?

And if the 3D moves up in terms of what it offers photographers and gets all of the hyped up video (even 3D video!) and the 6D becomes the FF DSLR "that also does video"?

Of course all of those 5D Mark2 owners that feel like their camera is linked to their ego will be suddenly overcome with waves on insecurity because a "lower model" camera will be better than theirs and will cry out in shame at how could Canon do this to them. Diddums.
That wouldn't happen. If a more advanced model comes out called the 3D, and a 5DII beating "FF DLSR that also does video" is released then why would Canon released it as a 6D and discontinue the 5D line? The makes no sense from their past naming patterns and no sense from a marketing perspective.

Why not?

It would allow them to make the 3D more expensive than the 5D and the 6D cheaper.

There's no rule anywhere that a product line needs to live forever.
Why would Canon sell a camera that was better than a 5D, under a name that loses the 5D's brand awareness, for cheaper than they could sell it for if it was the 5D?

I suppose you could argue that if they lower the price enough that moving more units will make them more money in the end but that hasn't ever seemed to be Canon's strategy for these things and shifting units never seemed to be a problem with the 5D line.

I'm not saying that Canon have a rule that stops them from doing certain things, I am just saying that I very much doubt that they would act in a way that would lose them potential profit in exchange for no discernable upside.


Also, I do not buy the idea that the name 6D would be used to bring the model into line with the 60D/600D. Even if it were announced this month and not in Q1 2012 then those models would still likely be updated and refreshed with a new model number which would leave the line-up as 6D/70D/650D. The fact they are on different product cycles means that Canon aren't likely to try and sync up the names as doing so would make sense for 18 months at the most if you did it at the same time.

Chris
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Edwin Herdman on August 11, 2011, 03:56:43 PM
Canon are probably avoiding naming cameras 3D / 4D unless they can somehow meaningfully riff on the dimensional associations of such nomenclature... ;)  2D, 3D, and even 4D seem off for this reason.  I think that a 6D is possible, even as a new positioning of the 5D line, but that's maybe a bit much.  Fragmenting product lines only makes much sense at the bottom end where subtle changes between bodies to capture sales for $100 more or less makes sense because the engineering cost is completely submerged by the materials savings and the volume.  There's a lot of 5D bodies (both marks) out there floating around, but I start to wonder whether people who are buying $2500 cameras really need more compromises set in their face in the functioning of their product for the possible savings of a bit of money.

The "video focused versus stills focused" angle many have been reading still seems premature to me.  A better stills-heritage video camera would still be better served with a transformation further from the EOS line, with different branding to suit its new posturing closer to Canon's traditional video and camcorder products, not to mention better handling for video.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Rocky on August 11, 2011, 04:02:12 PM
Why would Canon sell a camera that was better than a 5D, under a name that loses the 5D's brand awareness, for cheaper than they could sell it for if it was the 5D?


Chris
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: c-law on August 11, 2011, 04:13:12 PM
Why would Canon sell a camera that was better than a 5D, under a name that loses the 5D's brand awareness, for cheaper than they could sell it for if it was the 5D?


Chris
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".
If Canon were to repeat that then they would release it as a 5D Mark III but give it less features (more realistically some less features while some improvements) than the 5D Mark II.

In fact, that is the opposite of what we are talking about. Changing the model concept/position without changing the name. We are talking about changing the name without changing the concept and position of the camera (position meaning in terms of features, not branding).

Chris
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Edwin Herdman on August 11, 2011, 04:50:17 PM
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".
"Less feature" on the 60D is very nearly a matter of interpretation.  It doesn't have microadjust (important to be sure and rather inexcusable to lose on a camera of this rank) and, almost unimportantly, the magnesium has been replaced by polycarbonate, glass fiber, and aluminum.  (Moving from aluminum to carbon fiber in tripods is one thing, but in camera bodies going to aluminum seems minimally important, as aluminum is still plenty good as a heatsink.)  It also loses one frame per second shooting speed, going from 6.3 FPS to 5.3, and the control wheel.  That is really about it on the negative side.

The 60D "has more feature" than the 50D in every other meaningful way.  Each little point, taken individually, is small, but taken together they lead to a camera that really is a replacement for the 50D, even if Canon has been careful not to position it that way (that's what the 7D is for).  When the 60D gets its own replacement, the new camera will probably be an unambiguous upgrade from the 50D in all areas but a few specifics to annoy the most finicky of purists.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: AG on August 11, 2011, 10:16:21 PM
Quote
Also, I do not buy the idea that the name 6D would be used to bring the model into line with the 60D/600D. Even if it were announced this month and not in Q1 2012 then those models would still likely be updated and refreshed with a new model number which would leave the line-up as 6D/70D/650D. The fact they are on different product cycles means that Canon aren't likely to try and sync up the names as doing so would make sense for 18 months at the most if you did it at the same time.

Chris

This is going on the tradition that they are going to stick with the naming conventions that we are used too.

Whats to say the next 60D replacement isn't called the 61D or 65D?

Im basing this on the premise that they are using the 6 series as the video focused models.

With the economy at the moment and the way companies are seeming to streamline their products into particular focused lines, Canon may shock us all.

Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: Rocky on August 11, 2011, 10:24:36 PM
Canon has already done it with the 60D. The 60D has less feature than the 50D and lose the metal body at the same time.  Logically, 60D is supposed to have more feature and a step up from 50D.  60D basically has changed  the tradition and linage of the XXD. Now 60D has been nicknamed "Super Rebel".
"Less feature" on the 60D is very nearly a matter of interpretation.  It doesn't have microadjust (important to be sure and rather inexcusable to lose on a camera of this rank) and, almost unimportantly, the magnesium has been replaced by polycarbonate, glass fiber, and aluminum.  (Moving from aluminum to carbon fiber in tripods is one thing, but in camera bodies going to aluminum seems minimally important, as aluminum is still plenty good as a heatsink.)  It also loses one frame per second shooting speed, going from 6.3 FPS to 5.3, and the control wheel.  That is really about it on the negative side.

The 60D "has more feature" than the 50D in every other meaningful way.  Each little point, taken individually, is small, but taken together they lead to a camera that really is a replacement for the 50D, even if Canon has been careful not to position it that way (that's what the 7D is for).  When the 60D gets its own replacement, the new camera will probably be an unambiguous upgrade from the 50D in all areas but a few specifics to annoy the most finicky of purists.
You have listed a few  thing that the 50D has is missing on the 60D.  but you cannot even list anything that the 60D is better than the 50D. I would like to know. May I just list two? It it the tilting screen and the sensor has been changed from 15 MP to 18 MP. By the way, 60D does have dual control wheels.  However the 60D does not have a standard joystick  and the top LCD pannel has less information than the 50D.
Title: Re: *UPDATE* This & That
Post by: c-law on August 12, 2011, 06:08:42 AM
Quote
Also, I do not buy the idea that the name 6D would be used to bring the model into line with the 60D/600D. Even if it were announced this month and not in Q1 2012 then those models would still likely be updated and refreshed with a new model number which would leave the line-up as 6D/70D/650D. The fact they are on different product cycles means that Canon aren't likely to try and sync up the names as doing so would make sense for 18 months at the most if you did it at the same time.

Chris

This is going on the tradition that they are going to stick with the naming conventions that we are used too.

Whats to say the next 60D replacement isn't called the 61D or 65D?

Im basing this on the premise that they are using the 6 series as the video focused models.

With the economy at the moment and the way companies are seeming to streamline their products into particular focused lines, Canon may shock us all.
OK, I guess that is possible. I just don't think it'll happen.

Chris