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Gear Talk => Third Party Manufacturers => Topic started by: TomazK on June 20, 2013, 12:12:04 PM

Title: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: TomazK on June 20, 2013, 12:12:04 PM
Hey guys,

I was wondering how many of you use a 10 stop ND filter and which one do you recommend. I am looking to buy a good one, not to get too much color cast or vigneting. So far I found Lee big stopper, b+w, singh ray ...

How much difference is there, because the prices vaty a lot...
Also, do you use a lens screw on or a square type that you need a holder for.

Thank you
T
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: Schruminator on June 20, 2013, 12:20:39 PM
I have a 77mm and an 82mm 10 stop by Hoya. It might make the pictures a hair warmer, but overall there is no significant colorcast and I really don't have any complaints. They've performed great :)
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: Malte_P on June 20, 2013, 12:39:19 PM
i have a 120 euro B+W and a 48 euro HAIDA PRO II MC 10 stop filter... both 77mm.

they are exactly the same when it comes to image quality.
except that one adds a red tone and the other adds a blue tone.

otherwise you could not tell one from the other.

on amazon here the HAIDA has 5 reviews and always the full 5 stars.

the B+W is made out of brass.. you have to decide if that´s worth the price.
 
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: RLPhoto on June 20, 2013, 01:10:37 PM
I use the LEE big stopper and It has a distinct blue cast. It can be corrected pretty quickly in post though.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 20, 2013, 01:11:36 PM
I have the B+W 10-stop in 77mm and the Schneider Optics (parent company of B+W) 10-stop in 82mm (bought when that was the only 82mm option).  I also have the Lee Big Stopper.  I prefer the convenience of the screw-in filters if I'm not combining with a grad ND.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: sunnyVan on June 20, 2013, 01:27:52 PM
I just ordered a pack of 3 Haida ND filters which cost about $150. The pack contains 3, 6 and 10 stops filters.  I bought  it based on Internet research that Haida quality matches that of B+W. As someone pointed out,  b+w has red cast and haida blue, which is correctable. Most importantly Haida is slim. So if I do stack with a graduate ND, the vignetting should be minimal. This is only based on research.  I'm still waiting for shipment to arrive.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: neuroanatomist on June 20, 2013, 01:32:57 PM
Most importantly Haida is slim. So if I do stack with a graduate ND, the vignetting should be minimal.

If you do want to stack with a graduatd ND, you should be looking at the Lee system.  The problem with screw-in grad NDs is that the dividing line is right in the middle, where you usually do not want it, and it cannot be moved.  A 4x6" filter in a square holder gives flexibility to match the gradation to the scene.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: GammyKnee on June 20, 2013, 01:34:18 PM
I'm currently using a Hoya 77mm NDX400 (actually near enough 9 stops rather than 10). It has virtually no color cast on my two Canon bodies (5DII, 7D), which is important to me after the horrendous problems I had with a Hitech 10-stop.

Having experienced both filter + holder vs. screw in, I generally prefer the screw-in approach because it eliminates the IR / light leak issues that can come with a less than perfect holder or improperly fitted gasket. The down side of course is that unless ambient light is really bright you have to set up the shot completely before attaching the filter.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: sunnyVan on June 20, 2013, 01:37:25 PM
Most importantly Haida is slim. So if I do stack with a graduate ND, the vignetting should be minimal.

If you do want to stack with a graduatd ND, you should be looking at the Lee system.  The problem with screw-in grad NDs is that the dividing line is right in the middle, where you usually do not want it, and it cannot be moved.  A 4x6" filter in a square holder gives flexibility to match the gradation to the scene.

The Lee system seems too pricey for me.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 20, 2013, 01:42:32 PM
I have the 77mm B+W 3.0 ND1000.

Clear sharp, shallow filter, works great on my 70-200 and Tokina 11-22.

Warm cast, which I can only eradicate by shooting a grey card and doing a manual WB. Not always practical.  Haven't had much joy in post. 

A test exposure and the qpcard should work, as there is a wider range of tones and colours to adjust to, in fact, I'll do a wee test of this for my own reference and post the results. Not always practical. 
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: GuyF on June 20, 2013, 02:03:47 PM
I also use the B+W 3.0 10-stop. It has quite a warm colour-cast but as I convert all long exposure shots to black and white, it isn't a problem for me. When I was looking to buy a 10-stop filter I found a site dedicated to the B+W filter but damned if I can find the site for you now. Anyway, the black and white and colour images were enough to sell the B+W to me.

If I were doing it all again though, I'd probably go for the Lee system due to the flexibility it offers and the lesser colour-cast.

Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: scottburgess on June 20, 2013, 02:40:46 PM
The problem with most high-power NDs is the color cast--most of them are not a true warm cast, but rather have some magenta to them.  This can be finicky to correct in post-processing if you are working in color.  I suggest you take a long look at the Singh-Ray 10-Stop Mor-Slo if you are working in color, as this filter is specifically designed to overcome this deficiency.  The Singh-Ray version also comes in both threaded and "square" formats.  I prefer using Cokin-P as my base for such filters as that size works consistently for all but the biggest lenses while not taking up too much space (the Lee filter size is too large, expensive, and hard to find competing products for in my view).  This is all my personal preferences, of course, and your mileage may vary.  I can also vouch for the regular ND, grad, and polarizing filters from Singh-Ray--they're all top notch.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: JRS on June 20, 2013, 03:19:52 PM
+1 for the B+W, I have one and like it.

The problem with the screw-in filter is that you need to remove the filter every time you need to adjust focus, and then screw it again.

Be careful to NOT LOOK direct to the sun through the ND filter, it dosen't filter the IR light that can be harmful to the eyes, you feel no pain but it burns your retina.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: Vossie on June 20, 2013, 03:46:18 PM
I use the Lee big stopper. I have not observed any color casts. Can also easily be combined with ND grads. It's not a cheap system, but high quality and versatile.
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: TomazK on June 20, 2013, 03:52:42 PM
Thank you for the great feedback. It is interesting to see, as I thought most of you would have either the LEE, Singh Ray or Heliopan. But looks like most like the B+W. That is good, as it is cheaper than the others and it is a good solid filter.

I was initially thinking about LEE, but it is expensive and really hard to get, so I guess I'll go with the B+W.

Thank you again. Interesting discussion.
T
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: scottburgess on June 20, 2013, 04:38:24 PM
I use the Lee big stopper. I have not observed any color casts. Can also easily be combined with ND grads. It's not a cheap system, but high quality and versatile.

Matt Harris noticed a significant color cast with that and the B+W filters.  Is this a new version?

http://mattharrisphotography.co.uk/articles/reviews/lee-big-stopper-review (http://mattharrisphotography.co.uk/articles/reviews/lee-big-stopper-review)

Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: stoneysnapper on June 20, 2013, 04:55:16 PM
Interesting that Formatt Hi-tech filters have not been mentioned, they are a UK based company, their filters have went up in price over the last couple of years probably due to being compared favourably with Lee. I'm pretty sure I paid £80 for their Pro 10 Stop around 2 years ago and they supply with a fitted gasket to fit the Lee holder. Its now around £100. It has a blue cast similar to the Lee Big Stopper.

I had the B&W 10 stop about 4 years ago and whilst I thought it was great I really did find screwing it on and off a bit of a pain for refocussing etc, I much prefer the convenience of slot in filters. I see some other people prefer convenience of screw on.

Formatt Hi-Tech

http://www.formatt.co.uk/stills-filters/filters/standard-n-d/stills-filters.aspx (http://www.formatt.co.uk/stills-filters/filters/standard-n-d/stills-filters.aspx)

Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 21, 2013, 11:51:27 AM
Here are some test shots with the B+W to show you the 'warm' effect.
I'm going to do this over a few posts, so apologies in advance.

Canon T3i and Tokina 11-16 f2.8 @ f2.8 for each shot.

I have taken 3 shots, one unfiltered, one filtered with manual WB, one filtered with AWB.

I've then added two extra shots, one corrected using the QPcoloursoft 501 software that you download to use with the QPcard, and one corrected with Adobe Photoshop Elements.

First up:

Unfiltered.  Camera set to daylight WB preset.

Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 21, 2013, 11:52:22 AM
Now, with the ND in place and the camera WB manually set off the grey card:
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 21, 2013, 11:53:00 AM
Now with ND in place and Cam set to AWB:
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 21, 2013, 11:53:37 AM
Now corrected with QPcoloursoft 501:
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: paul13walnut5 on June 21, 2013, 11:54:36 AM
Now corrected with Photoshop Elements Auto colour correction tool (so thats AWb in camera and additional colour correct in PSE)
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: TomazK on June 25, 2013, 03:37:56 AM
Thank you for the test shots Paul. They clearly show that there is a color shift, but I guess there is some in all filters and it looks like it can be corrected several ways to achieve the (mostly) simmilar result.

Thanks
T
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: K3nt on June 25, 2013, 05:40:18 AM
I use LEE filters 100x150mm (4"x6") with the Cokin Z-Pro holder and the combo works just fine. The Big Stopper does add a blueish cast to the images but that is easily circumvented with either Custom WB or post-processing.

This shot had a 4-stop Hoya 77mm screw-in ND filter, then the cokin holder with the Lee Big Stopper and a Lee 3-stop soft grad ND filter for the sky, all stacked for a nice 17-stop filtration. :) Gave me an effective f-stop of f/3983. :)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7317/8998551574_95288b11cf_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3ntfin/8998551574/)
Landscape trickshot... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/k3ntfin/8998551574/#) by K3ntFIN (http://www.flickr.com/people/k3ntfin/), on Flickr
Title: Re: 10 stop High quality ND filter
Post by: Canon1 on June 25, 2013, 05:58:16 AM
I much prefer the Singh Rey 10 Stop Vari Filter.  Gives you a full range from 1 to 10 stops.  The nice thing is you can focus and compose at 1 stop and then rotate the filter to the level of stops you want and then take your picture. 

Whatever you get, variable stop filters are the way to go as your camera cant AF with a 10 stop filter on the front, and you can't see anything through the view finder.  I also rarely use all 10 stops.  More often I want to be at 4-5 stops.  The only downside is it will cause vignetting on UWA and sometimes can add a color cast on wider then 20mm.