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Gear Talk => EOS-M => Topic started by: dtaylor on July 09, 2013, 07:19:23 PM

Title: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 09, 2013, 07:19:23 PM
* Smaller and heavier then I anticipated. Heavy enough that I wouldn't want to use just a hand strap.

* AF isn't as bad as I feared. Certainly no 7D or 5D3, but I think it will be usable for all the situations where I will use the M. It should actually be usable for street (I'll find out tonight). Note: I'm judging the single focus square mode.

* Already love the 22mm f/2. Sharp, great bokeh.

* Touch screen interface is nice. The UI could use some tweaks to increase speed even more. But I don't think it's necessarily a negative vs. a design with more physical controls (in this size/format). It's better and worse. I have a feeling that touch to select focus point will prove to be a big positive for this UI over a more physical UI. My only real complaint is that I've already had my shirt change something, and I'm not on the sensitive mode.

* I'm thinking I will end up wanting an OV for some uses.

* I don't like that MF is disabled in AF and AF+MF (until after you AF and only while you hold the shutter). I realize the ring is electronically coupled, but I want a custom function where I can set it to always work if the camera is on. For that to be practically usable I suppose we would need to be able to move AF off the shutter button. That's fine with me, it's how every SLR I own is setup, and that red dot button isn't doing anything useful in still mode.

* Is it just me, or does it get warm?

* So far I've only tried one well lit scene, but...ISO 6400 JPEGs look great. After Noise Ninja they have similar noise levels to my 35mm NPH400 scans from a decade ago. More importantly, they have similar structure, i.e. the noise looks more like a fine grain film, not objectionable at all. 12800 has objectionable noise but still seems usable after some NR in post. I imagine this could fall apart with a poorly exposed scene (typical of crop at high ISO), but with good exposure I'm impressed.

This seems a bit better then my 7D, or at least better in JPEG (haven't compared RAWs yet). Sensor? DIGIC 5?

For being widely criticized and panned, this isn't a bad mirrorless body at all. I think Canon could have a hit if they:

* Improve AF even further (70D sensor).
* Tweak the UI and add focus peaking.
* Add OV and/or EV options.
* And finally: more lenses! Give us some more great primes like the 22mm f/2.

I'm happy I jumped on the $300 deal.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 09, 2013, 09:18:45 PM
* Smaller and heavier then I anticipated. Heavy enough that I wouldn't want to use just a hand strap.

* I don't like that MF is disabled in AF and AF+MF (until after you AF and only while you hold the shutter). I realize the ring is electronically coupled, but I want a custom function where I can set it to always work if the camera is on. For that to be practically usable I suppose we would need to be able to move AF off the shutter button. That's fine with me, it's how every SLR I own is setup, and that red dot button isn't doing anything useful in still mode.

I frequently carry my 1D X + 24-70 II by just the handstrap.  ;)

You can set the M up with back-button AF (the * 'button') with C.Fn-5.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: celltech on July 09, 2013, 09:45:17 PM
Got my new "Point & Shoot" in the mail today as well.  I agree with a lot of your points.  I am using this to hopefully replace a S95...  I will "try" to not compare to my T2i or 5D3.

Construction is fabulous!  Very solid in the hand and the 22 f/2 fits better and tighter than my other bodies.  Why can't a 5D3 lens fit this tight???

Even with the new firmware the AF is perhaps, ummmm, deliberate.  But it's no worse than the S95 in that regard.  I think it will work fine for around the house and vacation duty.

Although I know its a mini T4/5i i really don't want to shoot raw and process.  My desire it to just shoot jpg and be done with it.  And as compared to my S95 I can already tell the resolution is *much* better.  Forget the added 6MP, it's quite sharp and the 22 f/2 bokeh is very good.  I know raw is much better than jpg on my T2i...but I don't want to go there :-)

I am playing with my hand holding style and am getting used to choosing focus points.  I think it will be much better to grab focus on the extreme sides of the frame by using my finger instead of a rocker/thumb knobbie thing.  It just seems to work on a form factor like this.

Yes, if you are leaving the screen on and playing with the menu for a while it does warm up.  But such is the price you pay for putting a Digic 5 in a powershot body.  And I am still not burned :-)

The little 1/4 turn fasteners on the strap seem cheesy, but I guess they will hold?  I would still like a hand strap and need to look for one.

I put my 430EX on the shoe and it works great..even if it's bigger than the camera.  But for some crazy reason I could see carrying it around if the need arises.

Love the pinch cap on the lens...makes me want them for all my glass.

Well worth the $299...if you are on the fence, jump off and pick one up before they are gone.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Swphoto on July 10, 2013, 12:01:47 AM
We used this strap on our S100, and it is now attached to the M. We'll probably purchase something that's a bit stronger for it soon, though.

http://www.amazon.com/OP-TECH-USA-Cam-Strap/dp/B000H02B6O (http://www.amazon.com/OP-TECH-USA-Cam-Strap/dp/B000H02B6O)

That's only used with the 22mm - if a heavy lens was on it, and I needed a strap, it would hang on the BlackRapid.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 11, 2013, 01:53:05 AM
Had my EOS-M out last night for some street shooting. I was really happy with the camera and results (that I could see on the screen) until I got home and loaded the SD card...and it was unreadable  :(

I tried multiple photo recovery programs while testing the M with other SD cards. The photos could not be recovered, and I couldn't reproduce the issue. At first I was afraid there was a camera issue, but now I'm thinking it was the card. Everything (Mac/Win/disk utilities) reports a much smaller capacity for the card then should be available (i.e. <4 GB and it's an 8 GB card) and it's not a partition issue. In retrospect I should have caught this when I first put that card in the camera. Before changing from RAW to JPEG I remember thinking "that's all the RAWs this can hold?"

It was an older no-name card I had lying around, something a relative handed me over a year ago after upgrading to a bigger card. What was I thinking?  >:(

My M now has a SanDisk Extreme 16 GB. It better live up to their reputation.

Impressions from the night of shooting?

* AF is actually usable for most street, but...this camera would be a lot better in this respect if we could move AF to the record button (the exp. comp. button is not a good place) and if we had focus peaking. I also wish we had a "tap to focus" option in addition to "tap to shoot". I don't want AF to have anything to do with the shutter.

* MF throw is way too long. This is electronically coupled and can be anything Canon sets.

* I love being able to touch select focus points.

* With the 22mm I'm able to hand hold down to 1/10s even though I can't hold it like a DSLR.

* I feel comfortable to ISO 6400.

* I left +1/3 exp. comp. practically the entire time.

* Definitely does not draw the attention of a DSLR.

* The touch screen has one major issue: it acts on its own while rubbing against your shirt. Even got a shot thanks to this ;D (too bad it's gone). By the end of the night I found myself turning the camera off and/or hitting play. The latter prevents setting changes and lets the screen timeout, but the camera is still on and ready to shoot. I wish there was a "sleep screen" button or icon on the screen.

* Being used to SLRs I hate the relatively long blackout time.

I realize this probably isn't going to happen, but if Canon addressed the first points it would literally move the camera up a class for me.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 11, 2013, 01:56:02 AM
I frequently carry my 1D X + 24-70 II by just the handstrap.  ;)

You're a mad, mad man.

Quote
You can set the M up with back-button AF (the * 'button') with C.Fn-5.

Thanks. Alas, I don't really care for that function on that button (location). I did put C.Fn-5 on my quick menu though because I will switch based on the situation.

Now if only there was a C.Fn for focus peaking and for short MF throw  ;D
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 11, 2013, 01:58:29 AM
Construction is fabulous!  Very solid in the hand and the 22 f/2 fits better and tighter than my other bodies.  Why can't a 5D3 lens fit this tight???

Yes.

Quote
Even with the new firmware the AF is perhaps, ummmm, deliberate.  But it's no worse than the S95 in that regard.  I think it will work fine for around the house and vacation duty.

I'm OK with it. One trade off is that it always nails the focus.

Quote
Well worth the $299...if you are on the fence, jump off and pick one up before they are gone.

It was a steal at that price.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Old Shooter on July 11, 2013, 04:39:54 AM
Construction is fabulous!  Very solid in the hand and the 22 f/2 fits better and tighter than my other bodies.  Why can't a 5D3 lens fit this tight???

 ;D  You must not have a "Shorty Forty"!  The first time I put it on, I thought I had accidentally cross-threaded it!  :o

Oh, I see you have one - maybe it's not as snug as mine...  :)
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: FunPhotons on July 11, 2013, 08:31:41 AM
Got mine with the kit 22mm and the zoom I bought off eBay the same day.

I agree with the impressions posted here, including that it gets warm and it is heavier and more solid than I expected. On the blackout and focus it seems on par with my S100, which is fine by me. I actually use the S100 most of the time for family documentary shots (the 5DmII is too big, noisy and intimidating for much of that) and this is the perfect replacement.

I also can't help thinking that this is what the G1X should have been. I had that camera for about an hour and returned it. Too expensive for what you get IMO, I didn't find it substantially better than it's predecessor. This guy pulls it off however, and is a complete steal at the price.

The handling and touchscreen is really nice, and I love the clarity and resolution of the screen! Having this much control in this small a package is a dream.

I hate to say it but I'll probably be getting 90% of my pictures on this camera from now on. Looking forward to getting the zoom! Finally I also got the GPS shoe accessory and love it with this camera (I really like having GPS tags).
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: missitnoonan on July 11, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
I'm a big fan, the picture quality for the size with the 22mm attached is great and now I finally have something nice to carry when I don't want to lug my 60D around. I just got the 18-55 in from eBay yesterday. Seems nicely constructed on the outside and picture quality seems fine for the $120 I paid for it. I don't think I'll use it all that much (kind of pointless indoors without a flash, and I might as well use the 60D if I'm going to bother with external flash). But nice to have for the occasional trip when I want something light.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Random Orbits on July 11, 2013, 09:58:09 AM
After having the wife use the S90 (before I accidently drowned it)/HSxxx, this blows it out of the water IQ-wise.  Best $300 camera I've ever bought.

Played around with MF and AF+MF with the EF-M 22 f/2 and was likewise disappointed with its implementation.  This camera will be used strictly AF only with EF-M lenses.  Loved the IQ of the EF-M 22 -- fantastic little lens.  Still haven't quite figured out a good way of holding it with the right hand and still have good access to the controls, but it's a good trade for the compact size.

I do wish that the camera would prefer something faster than 1/30s before trading shutter speed and ISO (auto ISO) though.  It'd be nice to set the min shutter to something like 1/60 or 1/120 because kids move even when they try to be still.  Servo AF isn't very good, but it was not expected to be good.

When the wife looked at it, she immediately asked where was the flash.  Might have to pick up the ex-90 at some point because there is no way she'd use it with a 430.  Ordered the ef-m ef adapter.  Don't intend to use it much at all, but the M will be a capable backup to the DSLR if the situation arose.

Not quite sure if I'd get another lens for it since all the needed focal lengths are available with the DSLR and the main advantage of the M + 22 f/2 is its size.  Tried out a relative's NEX 5 and was not impressed.  It probably had to do more with the kit zoom than the sensor, but I know I'd rather have the M + 22 f/2.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Swphoto on July 11, 2013, 10:20:09 AM
Played around with MF and AF+MF with the EF-M 22 f/2 and was likewise disappointed with its implementation.  This camera will be used strictly AF only with EF-M lenses.  Loved the IQ of the EF-M 22 -- fantastic little lens.  Still haven't quite figured out a good way of holding it with the right hand and still have good access to the controls, but it's a good trade for the compact size.

Did you try switching to back button AF? That enables full time manual focus with the 22mm (when you have AF+MF selected) in the menu.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: celltech on July 11, 2013, 10:41:55 AM
Construction is fabulous!  Very solid in the hand and the 22 f/2 fits better and tighter than my other bodies.  Why can't a 5D3 lens fit this tight???

 ;D  You must not have a "Shorty Forty"!  The first time I put it on, I thought I had accidentally cross-threaded it!  :o

Oh, I see you have one - maybe it's not as snug as mine...  :)

My 40 is tight...tighter than any other EF/EF-S lens that I own.  But it's still not as tight as the 22, and once the 22 "clicks" onto place there is -0- rotation.  The 40 can be moved back and forth a hair.

Believe me, the first time I mounted the 22 I thought something was wrong and I was thinking I was going to break something :-)  Now I know that feeling was that of quality.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: tiger82 on July 11, 2013, 10:53:13 AM
I've been playing with my new EOS-M and while it will not replace my 5D2 or 1D3, it opens up many possibilities.  Using my EF lenses is very different.  Handheld shooting will be an adjustment.  If I had the $, I'd attach 4 EOS-M cameras to EF lenses like the 24-70, 70-200, 16-35, 8-15 fisheye when I go on vacation.  The camera/lens combination is barely larger than carrying just the lens.  Here's my strap setup using an Optech wrist strap and a mini QD adapter:
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 11, 2013, 11:03:36 AM
@tiger82 - what's up with that hood on the 70-200/2.8?  Hope you know it's too short to be of any real optical benefit...
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: tiger82 on July 11, 2013, 11:21:44 AM
It extends quite a bit.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Cali_PH on July 11, 2013, 11:24:05 AM
@tiger82 - what's up with that hood on the 70-200/2.8?  Hope you know it's too short to be of any real optical benefit...

I think it's one of those rubber hoods that can 'pop out' to a hood, or folded back. I've wondered how those are in use.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Random Orbits on July 11, 2013, 11:38:28 AM
Played around with MF and AF+MF with the EF-M 22 f/2 and was likewise disappointed with its implementation.  This camera will be used strictly AF only with EF-M lenses.  Loved the IQ of the EF-M 22 -- fantastic little lens.  Still haven't quite figured out a good way of holding it with the right hand and still have good access to the controls, but it's a good trade for the compact size.

Did you try switching to back button AF? That enables full time manual focus with the 22mm (when you have AF+MF selected) in the menu.

I was trying to set to BB AF (custom function 5), but it didn't seem to be working the way i thought it should.  There might have been something else that I had set that might have over-rode it or locked it out.  I'll have to dig into the manual to see...  Thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: RGF on July 11, 2013, 05:33:27 PM
Nice if the M had a sub-APS-C sensor, similar to Nikon for long lens work
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: tiger82 on July 11, 2013, 05:36:56 PM
Nice if the M had a sub-APS-C sensor, similar to Nikon for long lens work

We are schizophrenic, do we want larger or smaller sensor in a compact camera?  If you want a 4/3, don't buy the M.   What do you want to be able to do with the M?
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: FunPhotons on July 11, 2013, 06:41:14 PM
I've been playing with my new EOS-M and while it will not replace my 5D2 or 1D3, it opens up many possibilities.  Using my EF lenses is very different.  Handheld shooting will be an adjustment.  If I had the $, I'd attach 4 EOS-M cameras to EF lenses like the 24-70, 70-200, 16-35, 8-15 fisheye when I go on vacation.

That's a great point. Instead of swapping lenses (something I rarely do) it's a body I can put on my longer lens, when combined with the crop gives me the telephoto shots.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 11, 2013, 08:28:23 PM
Nice if the M had a sub-APS-C sensor, similar to Nikon for long lens work

Nope. It's not conducive to hand holding long glass nor is it a fast shooter, and typically long glass subjects are moving.

I'm glad it's APS-C. Better IQ, and old lenses work better via adapter. m4/3 makes every old lens a tele.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: tcmatthews on July 11, 2013, 10:02:32 PM
Solid build and a fantastic pancake lens.  I wish it had more physical buttons and a mode dial. It is over priced at retail price but a bargain at 299.  Magic lantern will make it into fantastic little powerhouse. 

I am a little concerned about the decision not to bring the wide angle lens to the US. 

It will not replace a SLR or my NEX6.  But I can defiantly fine a use for it. 
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: sjp010 on July 11, 2013, 11:23:32 PM
Just got mine as well.  My initial reactions (my current frames of reference are S95 and original 5D, FYI):
1. It's bigger and heavier than I expected, even with just the 22mm pancake lens.  I can't just slip it into my back pocket like I can my S95 - maybe in a jacket or lower cargo pants pockets.  I'd call it midway in bulk between S95 and 5D with 40mm pancake lens on.
2. New firmware came preloaded, and AF is faster and surer than I expected.  Is it SLR speed (even the sluggish 5D)?  No.  Is it significantly faster than S95?  Yes.
3. 22mm lens is sweet.  Comparable in IQ to the 40mm pancake on my 5D, and that is a compliment.  22mm is quieter in operation and feels slightly more solid.  Both quite sharp even wide open, and even in corners.  40mm is more susceptible to veiling flare, but has less ghosting than 22mm.
4. Touchscreen looks great and is surprisingly enjoyable to use.  I love picking AF points by touching - so easy and fast!  Changing settings isn't SLR automatic, but is reasonably quick and is definitely intuitive.  Pinching and swiping to review photos is nice - although not as smooth as an Apple device.
5. Haven't missed a viewfinder yet.  We'll see how that goes.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: mingyuansung on July 11, 2013, 11:47:32 PM
How do you make the lcd black out between shots shorter? I used sandisk extreme card already. Should i go o extreme pro or even faster card? Or the black out is a feature, nothing can o about it? By the way, i just received my M today. Shooting steady portrait is good, shooting kids riding bikes is hard. Using my 135L does not speed up either.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: thelebaron on July 12, 2013, 01:10:48 AM
Using my 135L does not speed up either.

how does the 135 compare to the 22 or 18-55?
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: infared on July 12, 2013, 01:18:55 AM
Waiting for the next round with viewfinder (a must!) and fast AF. Will accept nothing less in a Canon mirrorless cirque 2013/2014. Nothing less. C'mon Canon look at the mirrorless competition and please serve up a competitive product. Please.
I know for $300 a lot of people like the M and that is great...but for me even if it was $1 I just would never use it without a VF. Not photography to me.  I just don't get the monkey shine thing????  It doesn't mean I am right ...We just all want want we want, I guess. LOL.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: mingyuansung on July 12, 2013, 01:40:33 AM
I was shooting my kids riding bicycle outside at late evening. AF 35L faster than 135L faster than 50L. 50L hunts a lot. Manual focus plus tripod will be faster than AF using 50L. However the color is great. Have not tried the kit 22mm, will do that tomorrow after work. And maybe try a zoom lens. Steady shots AF is good. Similiar to my Canon S100. Touch shutter is good. It will not replace DSLR, it complements. I really hate the black out between shots. The blackout is even a little longer than my S100 when I compared them.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: brianboru on July 12, 2013, 08:12:40 AM
Very nice for $300.  I ordered an M42 adapter for some vintage glass and I really like the combination's ergonomics. I can cup the camera in my left hand with my fingers on the focus ring leaving my right hand for using the touch screen.  Using the magnifier for focus-peeking is workable in this setup but zebras would sure be nice.

I would echo dtaylor and sjp010 on the rest of my initial impressions.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: SajPhotos on July 12, 2013, 09:37:40 AM
I got my Eos M mid last week and I must say, I LOVE IT!!! I shoot normally with a 5d3 or 7d depending on situation, but with my wife expecting, I wanted a small camera to carry around everywhere once the baby comes without compromising too much image quality... I think the EOS M may actually produce better image quality than the 7d, YES I WENT THERE!!! Whether thats because of better sensor or digic 5, I don't care, the images may just be better!

I was looking between the EOS M and a Fuji x100s, and once the deal showed up, I picked one up immediately! I was going to still attempt to grab a Fuji x100s, because I do wish it had a viewfinder and the sharper images produced because of the no low pass filter, but in all honesty I love the image quality of eos M and now will most likely not waste the money!

Also, for only $300 I am more than comfortable letting my wife play with the camera when I am not home! She is very comfortable with the touch screen bc it is similar to the P&S she always used and the images are fantastic!

Ok, as for things to point out, I only really have a few semi issues with the EOS M. That is, the battery life is a bit weak compared to my bigger SLR's, as I am quickly learning, an extra battery is really a must have. another issue is that quick manual focus is near impossible, you have to spin the focus ring like 1000 times.. Also, shutter response is a bit slow for my taste, causing me to sometimes push down harder wondering if its gonna shoot, which can shake the camera a bit... this leads to my last wish and desire, wish the 22mm had IS... with it being a small camera, it isnt as stable as an SLR, so IS would be huge in that regard!

All and all very satisfied with the buy!!!! for $300, it was an absolute steal!!!
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: KevinB on July 12, 2013, 10:08:40 AM
I agree with your observations, I was in the market for a smaller camera tried the Panny G5 (felt very cheap) as for the M small for sure but feel solid. I am very impressed with the image quality as good as the 7d, I did order the adapter to use my 70-200 with it !! that will look like a large mount cap on it :).. So far I like it a lot !!
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: schill on July 12, 2013, 10:10:47 AM
@tiger82 - what's up with that hood on the 70-200/2.8?  Hope you know it's too short to be of any real optical benefit...

I think it's one of those rubber hoods that can 'pop out' to a hood, or folded back. I've wondered how those are in use.

I occasionally use a rubber hood on my 70-200/2.8, but when I do it's never extended - it's always as "short" as possible. I've only ever used it as a bumper on the lens when I wanted to get the front element as close to a window or (chain link) fence as I could.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 12, 2013, 11:20:14 AM
I think the EOS M may actually produce better image quality than the 7d, YES I WENT THERE!!! Whether thats because of better sensor or digic 5, I don't care, the images may just be better!

I think there's an improvement at high ISO. I'm really impressed with what I'm getting at 3200 and 6400.

Quote
another issue is that quick manual focus is near impossible, you have to spin the focus ring like 1000 times..

I would pay Canon another $100 right now to download a firmware release with these changes:

* Focus peaking.
* SHORT MF throw. Doing street photography I should be able to focus with a single twist.
* Touch to AF.
* C.Fn to move AF off the shutter and onto the record button (which sits useless in stills mode).
* Add distance / DoF info to the screen. If I choose f/8 and focus on something, show me on screen the DoF distances.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: schill on July 12, 2013, 12:42:43 PM
I think the EOS M may actually produce better image quality than the 7d, YES I WENT THERE!!! Whether thats because of better sensor or digic 5, I don't care, the images may just be better!

I think there's an improvement at high ISO. I'm really impressed with what I'm getting at 3200 and 6400.

Quote
another issue is that quick manual focus is near impossible, you have to spin the focus ring like 1000 times..

I would pay Canon another $100 right now to download a firmware release with these changes:

* Focus peaking.
* SHORT MF throw. Doing street photography I should be able to focus with a single twist.
* Touch to AF.
* C.Fn to move AF off the shutter and onto the record button (which sits useless in stills mode).
* Add distance / DoF info to the screen. If I choose f/8 and focus on something, show me on screen the DoF distances.

Does enabling "Continuous AF" in the current firmware accomplish what you want to do with "Touch to AF"?
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 12, 2013, 02:17:10 PM
Does enabling "Continuous AF" in the current firmware accomplish what you want to do with "Touch to AF"?

Not exactly, but it's a compromise I'll explore next time I'm out.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: comsense on July 12, 2013, 03:18:47 PM
Being skeptical, I thought all those armchair reviewers with high expectations has created enough hysteria to hurt sales resulting in great camera being sold at $300.
Upon using it for 15 minutes, here is my first impression:

Situations where this camera (+ 22 f/2) is awesome:
Combination of Small form + Low light + patience

For people buying it as a sole high quality camera:
Bound to be frustrated (esp. if shooting RAW) due to shot capture time and time between shots. iPhone 5 is way better in this regard than EOS M.
See, missed moment = no shot
so low quality iphone shot is better than no shot.
And you WILL miss shots with this.

For people buying as a backup:
Even if you got $300 deal, you will need to plunk couple 100's for accessories to be able to make it usable to the level that you have 1 shot every 3-5 seconds or more!!!!
Much better to buy a used 60D instead.
Now, I am not going to bother to spend any dime on accessories at all.
IMO, its oxymoron, as with anything except pancake M lenses, you loose for form factor. So what are you achieving by plunking $$$, a seriously crippled 70D alternative for same price and form?

Am I happy with my purchase:
Absolutely YES. It can create some great images for certain types of photography or if you have patience and time. While you will miss some images, its still better as
no camera = no images and this is definitely daily pocket/bag-able.
That said if I require speed I am likely to reach for iphone rather than risk with this.
I would be really furious if I had bought it at full price. So, its easy to understand why this thing did not sell.
IMO, Canon should fire the the person who approved the premature marketing of this product resulting in dent in brand image. Its not ready even now! EOS M II should have been a launch version!!!
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: schill on July 12, 2013, 03:34:38 PM
For people buying as a backup:
Even if you got $300 deal, you will need to plunk couple 100's for accessories to be able to make it usable to the level that you have 1 shot every 3-5 seconds or more!!!!
Much better to buy a used 60D instead.
Now, I am not going to bother to spend any dime on accessories at all.
IMO, its oxymoron, as with anything except pancake M lenses, you loose for form factor. So what are you achieving by plunking $$$, a seriously crippled 70D alternative for same price and form?

While it may required the extra purchase of the EOS-M/EF adapter (not a couple hundred, by the way, but a substantial cost), the EOS-M fits some people's idea of a backup very well where a 60D would not.

If I'm carrying my 7D and several lenses already, it is much easier for me to toss an EOS-M in my bag (with adapter) than it is to carry a 60D.  It is a smaller camera.

Backup in this case answers the question "what is small enough to carry with me that allows me to still use my lenses if something happens to my 7D."  I can carry an EOS-M and adapter with me more easily than a 60D.

To paraphrase from the "the best camera is the one you have with you" crowd, the "best backup is the one you have with you."  For me, a 60D would not fit that criteria.

To counter the above statement, however, I do consider the SL1 to be acceptable in the same capacity.  I have carried both the EOS-M and SL1 as a second body.  Both are small and light.

As a second body, and not technically a backup, I also find it useful to carry one of these in addition to the 7D so that I can have two different configurations set up.  For example, I have on numerous occasions used one body to shoot video from a tripod while I am free to shoot stills with the other body (you can hear my mirror/shutter noises on the video but that's not a problem for my use).  Again, they are much easier to carry.

We always need to remember that things like backup do not mean the same thing to everyone.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Swphoto on July 12, 2013, 03:37:32 PM
Being skeptical, I thought all those armchair reviewers with high expectations has created enough hysteria to hurt sales resulting in great camera being sold at $300.
Upon using it for 15 minutes, here is my first impression:

Situations where this camera (+ 22 f/2) is awesome:
Combination of Small form + Low light + patience

For people buying it as a sole high quality camera:
Bound to be frustrated (esp. if shooting RAW) due to shot capture time and time between shots. iPhone 5 is way better in this regard than EOS M.
See, missed moment = no shot
so low quality iphone shot is better than no shot.
And you WILL miss shots with this.

For people buying as a backup:
Even if you got $300 deal, you will need to plunk couple 100's for accessories to be able to make it usable to the level that you have 1 shot every 3-5 seconds or more!!!!
Much better to buy a used 60D instead.
Now, I am not going to bother to spend any dime on accessories at all.
IMO, its oxymoron, as with anything except pancake M lenses, you loose for form factor. So what are you achieving by plunking $$$, a seriously crippled 70D alternative for same price and form?

Am I happy with my purchase:
Absolutely YES. It can create some great images for certain types of photography or if you have patience and time. While you will miss some images, its still better as
no camera = no images and this is definitely daily pocket/bag-able.
That said if I require speed I am likely to reach for iphone rather than risk with this.
I would be really furious if I had bought it at full price. So, its easy to understand why this thing did not sell.
IMO, Canon should fire the the person who approved the premature marketing of this product resulting in dent in brand image. Its not ready even now! EOS M II should have been a launch version!!!

I likely won't ever be reaching for my iPhone (5 as well) when this camera is with me. I get 6-7 frames in RAW @ 4fps in continuous mode before it slows down - that's not enough for a small camera like this? I've been frustrated with the AF/metering/etc significantly more with my iPhone than I will be with the M.

The only thing that has really frustrated me with this camera (post firmware update) is the slow frame rate in servo mode, but now I know to take one of the other cameras when I need to fire off several shots with AF in between. Otherwise, I couldn't be more happy with the purchase.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: Jens on July 12, 2013, 04:02:36 PM
Just got mine as well with the 22, love the lens, touch display and not to mention the image quality. Put up our fuji x20 for sale, wouldn't need that anymore, the canon is even smaller than the fuji.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: bholliman on July 12, 2013, 04:24:49 PM

For people buying it as a sole high quality camera:
Bound to be frustrated (esp. if shooting RAW) due to shot capture time and time between shots. iPhone 5 is way better in this regard than EOS M.
See, missed moment = no shot
so low quality iphone shot is better than no shot.
And you WILL miss shots with this.


I likely won't ever be reaching for my iPhone (5 as well) when this camera is with me. I get 6-7 frames in RAW @ 4fps in continuous mode before it slows down - that's not enough for a small camera like this? I've been frustrated with the AF/metering/etc significantly more with my iPhone than I will be with the M.


I also have an iPhone 5 and it certainly does not compare as a camera to the EOS-M.  As SWPhoto pointed out, the M's can hit 4 fps while the iPhone is capable of 2-4fps for short burst.  I did a quick test with my phone and the camera and the fps seems to be roughly the same, maybe a slight edge to the M.

Regarding IQ, the iPhone's camera sensor is 4.5mm x 3.4mm while the M's APS-C sensor is 23.4mm x 15.6mm, 24 times larger in area!

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the EOS-M in the two days I've had it.  With the firmware upgrade the AF is OK and I like its small form factor with the 22mm lens.  I think Canon messed up by not waiting to release the camera until it had the firmware AF corrected and its initial price point was too high.  If they had handled the marketing better, it would not have received the negative press it did when released.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: samkatz on July 12, 2013, 05:10:37 PM
Like some other posters, I'm seeing this "impulse purchase" more as a substitute for my cellphone camera, or a 2nd camera+ short lens to take with me for a landscape shot or snapshot when I have my heavy telephoto oriented kit.   So it's not a true "back up" because I'd struggle with all the menus, buttons and lack of viewfinder for "serious" shooting.  I must say that I;m 100% pleased w/the IQ I got shooting some RAW images outside on an overcast day today.

A couple little things to get used to: The shutter trigger is very light.  I think I;m just locking focus by pressing part way on shutter release, but wind up taking a photo.

Touch to focus either not working or it's a not possible
... I could swear I was doing it at one point.   You can move the focus point around by touch and in focuses in and out if "continuous focus " is set, but not lock.    YOu can use setting to "shutter release by touch"... but not just get the green focus lock.  Am I getting this right?

I need to experiment w/my Sunpak RD 2000c small flash more.  I thought i'd save a lot of $$ over the Canon (Sunpak was 35.00), but the coverage(width) isn't equal to the lens...i've only done some shots of my living room, need to try it on some portraits group shots..
If anyone has sprung for the Canon flash, pls comment

I didn't want to spend much on accessories before seeing if this was a keeper.  Right now, I'd consider the 18-55 ES-M STM, but not at over $200. 

TX
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: brad-man on July 12, 2013, 05:58:13 PM
Just came from Amazon's camera page. The EOS M + 22mm is the #1 best selling compact camera, and the EOS M + 18-55mm is #2. I wonder why?  ;D
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: bholliman on July 12, 2013, 06:21:00 PM

If anyone has sprung for the Canon flash, pls comment


I just purchased an M in the $299 B&H sale.  I already owned the little Canon 90EX speedlite and its works fine on the M.  I like to avoid using direct, on-camera flash, so thus far I've only used it a few times as fill flash for some backlit portraits.

I bought the 90EX several months ago to use on my 6D as an optical master for my 430EXII located off-camera.  Its works great for that.  The 90EX does not pivot or rotate, so you really can't use it to bounce flash off walls or ceilings - I'll use my 430EXII for that.  This weekend I'll try the 90EX as an optical master on the EOS-M and see how it works. 
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: tcmatthews on July 12, 2013, 06:33:51 PM
First real pictures I have to admit this was the closest tourist thing around to do and there is not much else to take pictures of around here.  It being flat and all.  (At lease not much the public can get to.  ;) )

Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: comsense on July 12, 2013, 07:51:49 PM


I likely won't ever be reaching for my iPhone (5 as well) when this camera is with me.

I also have an iPhone 5 and it certainly does not compare as a camera to the EOS-M. 
Both of you need to read my post again.  For sake of time and sanity I am not going to explain to you that 4fps does not compensate for long lag time between the shots and enable capture something at the very exact moment you want.
I did not/am not saying that iPhone is better than M (or compare them; it will be foolish to say/do so). Also note that I am happy with my purchase as well as image quality of M. I also said that for still objects or landscapes it works very well and none of what I say about speed is applicable. My comments are applicable to situations like:
1) Your kid doing something cute which you want to capture almost instantly.
2) Some event/occurance you saw while driving or stopped at light (as a passenger of course) that you want to record instantly.
Also, I am not saying that you will get no photo. Just that your abilities will be limited and you might miss that moment all together. And I am not saying anything new. It is universally accepted that this camera is kind of slow.
Don't get fixated on pixel density and fps and all and swear that you would never touch iPhone. There will be time when it will be faster (note faster is not equal to better) for you to whip iPhone to take a shot while accessing M, switching on and fumbling with its quirks will actually miss the moment. Remember, how apple bypasses even lock so that you can shoot almost instantly (even my 1 yr old figured out how to do it, which is a huge problem as I am tired of deleting random photos from my phone :-). For those moments and and others when you have nothing else, iPhone is not bad camera. Provided you are talking about photography as an art or tool to capture beautiful moments and not a scientific project of resolution and sharpness. Don't dismiss any tool, however small or insignificant it may look to you....
 
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: bholliman on July 12, 2013, 08:10:05 PM
Both of you need to read my post again...

I did not/am not saying that iPhone is better than M (or compare them...

you can shoot almost instantly.

Sorry, I misunderstood your point.  I agree that there are times the iPhone is more accessible (its always in my pocket) and can shoot with no set-up.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 12, 2013, 08:32:32 PM
Both of you need to read my post again.  For sake of time and sanity I am not going to explain to you that 4fps does not compensate for long lag time between the shots and enable capture something at the very exact moment you want.

I spent 3 hours shooting street the first night I got my M. Capturing the moment I wanted just involved pre-focusing and holding the shutter half way until the moment came. No different from capturing the moment with an all manual camera. If you're focused there's hardly any release lag.

You might miss a true surprise moment due to AF. But then again, you will with most cameras. I had one such moment that night (a kid running by me) and I would have needed my 7D to nail it.

I do wish Canon would make this easier on us with some additional options. Let me AF off the record button. And touch to focus (instead of touch to shoot). Make manual focusing useful (peaking + much shorter throw). And give me a DoF distance scale on screen. Give us that and the "moment" argument is completely moot.

Even without that, you can work with the camera and be ready.

Quote
1) Your kid doing something cute which you want to capture almost instantly.

I'm not going to lie and claim that the M is ideal for tracking kids running around. Neither is the iPhone, most P&S bodies, or a lot of mirrorless bodies. Kids can be as challenging as sports so grab a sports orientated DSLR for kids.

When kids are sitting down and being cute, I see no reason why you can't anticipate and capture the peak moment with the M. If I can do it with a street drummer....

Quote
2) Some event/occurance you saw while driving or stopped at light (as a passenger of course) that you want to record instantly.

You have a lot of those that are over and done with in the time it takes the M to AF? I know there's a lag, but come on....

Quote
Don't get fixated on pixel density and fps and all and swear that you would never touch iPhone. There will be time when it will be faster (note faster is not equal to better) for you to whip iPhone to take a shot while accessing M, switching on and fumbling with its quirks will actually miss the moment.

Playing right now at my desk...my iPhone has more AF/release lag then my M. On the M I'm using single point AF with the 22mm f/2. Haven't even really tried the others. Perhaps you're seeing more lag with the other modes?
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: comsense on July 13, 2013, 03:35:13 AM
Both of you need to read my post again.  For sake of time and sanity I am not going to explain to you that 4fps does not compensate for long lag time between the shots and enable capture something at the very exact moment you want.

I spent 3 hours shooting street the first night I got my M. Capturing the moment I wanted just involved pre-focusing and holding the shutter half way until the moment came. No different from capturing the moment with an all manual camera. If you're focused there's hardly any release lag.

You might miss a true surprise moment due to AF. But then again, you will with most cameras. I had one such moment that night (a kid running by me) and I would have needed my 7D to nail it.

I do wish Canon would make this easier on us with some additional options. Let me AF off the record button. And touch to focus (instead of touch to shoot). Make manual focusing useful (peaking + much shorter throw). And give me a DoF distance scale on screen. Give us that and the "moment" argument is completely moot.

Even without that, you can work with the camera and be ready.

Quote
1) Your kid doing something cute which you want to capture almost instantly.

I'm not going to lie and claim that the M is ideal for tracking kids running around. Neither is the iPhone, most P&S bodies, or a lot of mirrorless bodies. Kids can be as challenging as sports so grab a sports orientated DSLR for kids.

When kids are sitting down and being cute, I see no reason why you can't anticipate and capture the peak moment with the M. If I can do it with a street drummer....

Quote
2) Some event/occurance you saw while driving or stopped at light (as a passenger of course) that you want to record instantly.

You have a lot of those that are over and done with in the time it takes the M to AF? I know there's a lag, but come on....

Quote
Don't get fixated on pixel density and fps and all and swear that you would never touch iPhone. There will be time when it will be faster (note faster is not equal to better) for you to whip iPhone to take a shot while accessing M, switching on and fumbling with its quirks will actually miss the moment.

Playing right now at my desk...my iPhone has more AF/release lag then my M. On the M I'm using single point AF with the 22mm f/2. Haven't even really tried the others. Perhaps you're seeing more lag with the other modes?
Its good that it works for your personal style and photography needs. No one can argue with that. But that does not make the camera responsive/faster if others need it that way.
I like to watch my frame constantly and click at right moment. Sometime I want to click again after a sec because scene changed for better, but I find M unresponsive. (esp when shooting RAW). My kid changes the face expression by the time this focuses and captures the shot (not always but annoyingly more than I want). I like the camera otherwise. Since, I am not a fanatic fanboy, I am open to reasonable criticism.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 13, 2013, 05:22:10 AM
The M is good. Arguing over which has less shutter lag when you need to shoot fast action, the iPhone or the M, is like debating how well an Accord vs. a Camry will do in the Indy 500.  In terms of shutter lag, neither is anywhere close to a 1D X, but that's ok because my 1D X is a 1D X - if I need that responsiveness, I know where to get it.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: bholliman on July 13, 2013, 07:13:07 AM
The M is good. Arguing over which has less shutter lag when you need to shoot fast action, the iPhone or the M, is like debating how well an Accord vs. a Camry will do in the Indy 500.  In terms of shutter lag, neither is anywhere close to a 1D X, but that's ok because my 1D X is a 1D X - if I need that responsiveness, I know where to get it.

+1. Well said
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: dtaylor on July 13, 2013, 07:22:03 AM
Its good that it works for your personal style and photography needs. No one can argue with that. But that does not make the camera responsive/faster if others need it that way.
I like to watch my frame constantly and click at right moment.

I had no problem doing that with the M the other night. Again, I was pre-focusing. I consider that a valuable technique even with a 7D. I wish Canon would give us a firmware update to support more pre-focus / manual focus options. But what's there is usable.

Quote
Sometime I want to click again after a sec because scene changed for better, but I find M unresponsive. (esp when shooting RAW).

Black out time is a critique I've made myself. Not sure why it's so high. Moving AF off the shutter helps because AF won't engage for the next shot.
Title: Re: Just got my EOS-M! First impressions...
Post by: comsense on July 14, 2013, 03:03:49 PM
Oh boy, people do like to argue here tirelessly and most of the time pointlessly...
Despite my clarifying that M is good (esp for 300 bucks) and I am NOT comparing it with iphone the debate still rages on. Let me try one last time:
M is a good camera and can take good photos. However, it does not meet MY reasonable expectations of a product in this class. And neuro thanks for your useful post but I am not expecting M to perform like 1DX.
Rather, you gave me a good clue. I was confused between 5DIII and 1DX (I can easily afford 1DX so money is not the factor). But after comparing the specs, I came to conclusion that for me extra cash spent on 1DX is not getting me anything that is important for what I shoot. And I am really happy with 5DIII. It met all my reasonable expectations 100%. I have no complains about it being overpriced or I should have got 1DX functions with it or GPS/WiFi etc etc.
Even though M was sold at $4-500 range, my $4-500 expectations were not met.
So all I was saying is that my 'Camry' is guzzling gas like 'Hummer' not that I expect it to be 'Prius'!!!!
And before someone else comes and says that is is a great camera and can take good pictures, I am saying in advance, I agree.