canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS-M => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on August 19, 2013, 03:41:25 PM

Title: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Canon Rumors on August 19, 2013, 03:41:25 PM

The EOS M update

We’re told that an announcement date hasn’t been finalized for the EOS M camera(s), but at least one camera will be available before Christmas of this year.


We’re told again, that there will be two camera bodies announced. One very similar to the current EOS M and a camera that is “higher end”, though it was noted that the “higher end” camera could be pushed into the new year.


Two more lenses are slated for release, a zoom telephoto lens and a macro. No timeframe was given on new lenses.


CR’s Take

I’m still on the fence as to whether or not Canon is truly behind the EOS M system. Canon USA is currently not selling the EF-M 11-22 STM lens. That tells me there could be some internal discussion as to whether or not it is a viable global product line.


cr


Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Act444 on August 19, 2013, 04:08:05 PM
Forget new cameras, that macro lens sounds nice...
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Dylan777 on August 19, 2013, 04:08:45 PM
Looking for UWA lens in pancake style. I don't see the point of zoom for the M.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: jebrady03 on August 19, 2013, 04:10:03 PM
The 11-22 isn't released YET. Doesn't mean the M is being abandoned. To think like that is irrational hysteria.

IMO, too many people who have never overcome adversity are talking too loudly about the M system. Success rarely comes without significant and numerous failures. Good business people know that.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: michi on August 19, 2013, 04:10:09 PM
Still waiting for the 11-22, yawn...
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: jebrady03 on August 19, 2013, 04:18:35 PM
Still waiting for the 11-22, yawn...

Order it from Canada.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: brad-man on August 19, 2013, 04:25:56 PM
Primes, primes, primes!  I'd like those on a pancake, please!
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: pharp on August 19, 2013, 05:17:58 PM
While it may have taken a fire sale to get people on board - those who actually have bought it seem to like it! IQ and build is nice - they just need to get the right camera at the right price and I think they'll have a winner.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: drjlo on August 19, 2013, 05:18:38 PM
Primes, primes, primes!  I'd like those on a pancake, please!

It would make me very happy to see a pancake EF-M 35 mm f/1.8~2.0 for portraiture.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on August 19, 2013, 05:20:14 PM
Having now owned one of the M's, I certainly think it is a system worth investing in.  I don't yet have the 11-22 (debating whether or not I need it), but friends that have gotten one say it is a great lens.  But the M is a fantastic travel camera because it produces great images in such a compact package.  And since the update the AF speed is good enough 90% of the time and will only get better with new models.

I too think that the primary source of new lens development needs to be in pancake primes.  It is the form factor with the 22mm that makes the M so attractive to me.

P.S.  I'm having a great time playing with my legacy glass on the M.  An M with a Helios 44-2 on the end makes for a sweet combo.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7292/9523855672_7ec5b1ba6a_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/9523855672/)
Embrace the Swirl (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thousandwordimages/9523855672/#) by Thousand Word Images by Dustin Abbott (http://www.flickr.com/people/thousandwordimages/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: transpo1 on August 19, 2013, 05:56:29 PM
The EOS-M is underrated. After using it this weekend for a couple CU wildlife shots, I'm convinced. I hope Canon USA stops the snobbery and gets on board.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/78925605@N08/9548102937/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/78925605@N08/9548102937/#)
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: comsense on August 19, 2013, 06:05:58 PM
The 11-22 isn't released YET. Doesn't mean the M is being abandoned. To think like that is irrational hysteria.

IMO, too many people who have never overcome adversity are talking too loudly about the M system. Success rarely comes without significant and numerous failures. Good business people know that.
Why should people overcome adversities to support imperfect product (only blind fanboys do that)? I never heard any romantic poetry about EOS M before this crash $299 sale  :D :D :D
Success also involves clear understanding of past failures and deficiencies. The current model really sucks for anything moving. And unless that is corrected it won't make any inroads into huge family photography market.  Crash $299 sales are good for recouping some money through accessory sale but not enough to make product successful.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 19, 2013, 06:20:58 PM
Why should people overcome adversities to support imperfect product (only blind fanboys do that)?

Fair enough.  Can you please point us in the direction of that 'perfect product' your statement implies exists?  ::)
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Bob Howland on August 19, 2013, 06:34:11 PM
Why should people overcome adversities to support imperfect product (only blind fanboys do that)?

Fair enough.  Can you please point us in the direction of that 'perfect product' your statement implies exists?  ::)

How about something that sells spectacularly well, far beyond expectations and makes incredible profits for its manufacturer? There may not be such a thing as a "perfect" product but, according to the marketplace, the original M body was thoroughly imperfect. I also don't see why it is a sign of good character ("overcome adversities") to waste money on that bad a product.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Dylan777 on August 19, 2013, 06:44:56 PM
Still waiting for the 11-22, yawn...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Lenses-/3323/i.html?_sop=1&_from=R40&_nkw=canon+11-22mm (http://www.ebay.com/sch/Lenses-/3323/i.html?_sop=1&_from=R40&_nkw=canon+11-22mm)
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: michi on August 19, 2013, 06:56:49 PM
Still waiting for the 11-22, yawn...

Order it from Canada.

No thanks, if Canon won't support their own product lines, I'm not going to give them any more money for it.  I love the M, but I'll switch over to the SL1 and use all my EF-S lenses if they are not fully behind the M.  Or maybe get something completely different.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: t.linn on August 19, 2013, 07:09:10 PM
It would be foolish to look at the sales figures of the M and conclude the market isn't interested in this class of camera.  Canon was the last one to market and introduced an inferior product with no lens selection. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying the M takes bad photos.  I'm saying it isn't competitive in terms of AF performance, features or lens selection with micro 4/3, NEX, or Fuji's new mirrorless system.  Why would any informed person buy it at full price?
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: comsense on August 19, 2013, 07:14:42 PM
Why should people overcome adversities to support imperfect product (only blind fanboys do that)?

Fair enough.  Can you please point us in the direction of that 'perfect product' your statement implies exists?  ::)
You caught me here  :); I would have to say none but I am outside +/- 2 sigma of normal distribution and I have a feeling so are you (which side is not important ;D ). OTOH, deficient may be better choice of word (not perfect though).
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 19, 2013, 07:21:27 PM
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?

I don't know...but I wouldn't have (and didn't).
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: comsense on August 19, 2013, 07:29:42 PM
Why should people overcome adversities to support imperfect product (only blind fanboys do that)?

Fair enough.  Can you please point us in the direction of that 'perfect product' your statement implies exists?  ::)

How about something that sells spectacularly well, far beyond expectations and makes incredible profits for its manufacturer? There may not be such a thing as a "perfect" product but, according to the marketplace, the original M body was thoroughly imperfect. I also don't see why it is a sign of good character ("overcome adversities") to waste money on that bad a product.
When Canon was pounding Nikon with spectacular sales of 5DII, Nikon fanboys were coming with the similar arguments. I am sure Nikon has been trying so hard just to please fanboys; profits have nothing to do with it  ;D ;D ;D.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Bruce Photography on August 19, 2013, 07:39:05 PM
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?

I don't know...but I wouldn't have (and didn't).

Me neither.  I paid $349 and I was still happy.  I even paid $419 to get the red with the flash and the 18-55 lens which is a great outdoor lens.  I've been taking some really nice portraits with the 85mm 1.8 as well as the 50mm 1.4.  I thought I'd order the cheap 50mm 1.8 and the cheap pancake 40mm 2.8 all because of their light weight.  Combined with the 22mm F2, I'll have 22, 40, and 50mm primes that are all 2.8 or faster for inside and the 18-55 for general outside shots.  I can always put on the 85mm 1.8 for candid shots as well or the 135mm F2 for some really tight crops.  And I haven't even tried the 8-15 fisheye or the 14 yet.  This is fun...
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: comsense on August 19, 2013, 07:51:53 PM
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?

I don't know...but I wouldn't have (and didn't).

I wouldn't have either; for sure....
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Dylan777 on August 19, 2013, 08:05:06 PM
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?

I bought it @ $299 and used it as P&S camera. Since it quite big for jean pocket, I ended up selling it at $365 and replaced with Sony RX100 II.

Last week, I won another M + 22mm from a golf tourmament, not sure what to do with it yet. I can sell it to you?  :P
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: AvTvM on August 19, 2013, 08:12:04 PM
1. I will NOT buy the current EOS-M .. no matter how low the porice may drop. I have no use for a camera with shtty AF-performance worse than any micor-sensored compact camera.
2. I will NOT buy a new EOS-M that is similarly sI have pecced. I have no use for a camera with sh*tty AF-performance worse than any micor-sensored compact camera.
3. I would buy an EOS-M that is absolutely equal to the EOS 70D in every respect - and costs 300 Euro less, since it has no expensive to manufacture and calibrate mirror-stuff built in and no expensive glass prism.

I don't care what Canon does or doesn't. Either they produce exactly what I want at a price not higher than competitors ... or I simply will not buy. For the time being my 7D, EF-S and EF lenses are still doing fine. No need to buy EOS-M lenses and inferior/inadequate Canon mirrorless cameras.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 19, 2013, 08:44:40 PM
1. I will NOT buy the current EOS-M .. no matter how low the porice may drop. I have no use for a camera with shtty AF-performance worse than any micor-sensored compact camera.

I don't care what Canon does or doesn't. Either they produce exactly what I want at a price not higher than competitors ... or I simply will not buy. For the time being my 7D, EF-S and EF lenses are still doing fine. No need to buy EOS-M lenses and inferior/inadequate Canon mirrorless cameras.

That's your choice, of course.  FWIW, the EOS M focuses a lot faster than my S100.  It's not as fast as my 1D X, but that's ok - it's not as big, either (and yes, both of those are big understatements).
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: jebrady03 on August 19, 2013, 09:07:35 PM
Still waiting for the 11-22, yawn...

Order it from Canada.

No thanks, if Canon won't support their own product lines, I'm not going to give them any more money for it.  I love the M, but I'll switch over to the SL1 and use all my EF-S lenses if they are not fully behind the M.  Or maybe get something completely different.

Ehh.. Suit yourself...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TA-o5mFGZuA/TRyR4VMt_QI/AAAAAAAACfc/Dy7e9a-qap4/s400/cut%2Byour%2Bnose%2Boff%2Bto%2Bspite%2Byour%2Bface.jpg)
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Zv on August 19, 2013, 09:47:22 PM
Dang I'm sensing a real negative vibe on this thread! Ya'll need to chill it's only a rumor. And If you don't like it don't buy it. I don't like Marmite but you know what? I just walk past it on the shelf even though I know it's throwing me daggers!

 ;D

Tuesdays eh? Must be a slow day for everyone!


Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: docsmith on August 19, 2013, 10:27:21 PM
I got the EOS-M 18-55 + flash for $419.  I've since picked up the EF-M 22 f/2 from ebay for $124.  I have to say, I am really very happy with the system. It's size is a little awkward, but what a great compact system.  The IQ and ISO/noise performance is similar to my 7D.  I am very happy and can't wait to buy the adaptor so I can travel with it as my back up body to my 5DIII. 

But I stumbled across the flaw with the EOS-M.  No built in camera flash.  I think the M is great for those of us with DSLRs and flashes.  The 90 ex works well.  But my mom was visiting this weekend and was tempted to buy one for herself.  At first, I thought it was a great idea and was showing her all the touch screen stuff and some sharp images.  She used to shoot film SLRs so she kind of liked it was more than a P&S in size.  But as soon as we started talking about her using it everywhere, shooting indoors, and she wanted the zoom, so she would need the flash and then I looked at her and recommended the Sony or the Olympus.  The M without a built in flash just won't work for most people's "do everything" camera.   

So, I can accept my M with it's flaws.  I've bought into the Canon system and it is a great compliment to my kit.  The IQ is shockingly good for a small camera.  But for those that haven't bought into the Canon system, there are simply better options out there...
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Swphoto on August 19, 2013, 10:33:55 PM
No thanks, if Canon won't support their own product lines, I'm not going to give them any more money for it.  I love the M, but I'll switch over to the SL1 and use all my EF-S lenses if they are not fully behind the M.  Or maybe get something completely different.

We own both the SL1 and the M, along with a 5D3. To my knowledge, there is nothing that comes close to the EOS M + 22mm from a size/image quality perspective. You can use the 40mm pancake and be in the right ballpark from a size perspective, but that's not nearly wide enough for a general purpose setup - for my preferences, at least, and it's slower and potentially not as sharp wide open.

If Canon released a 20-24mm pancake EF or EF-S with similar image quality to the EF-M 22mm, I might consider getting rid of the M. Until then, it's a very handy combo to have around.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: EverydayGetaway on August 19, 2013, 10:56:38 PM
You caught me here  :); I would have to say none but I am outside +/- 2 sigma of normal distribution and I have a feeling so are you (which side is not important ;D ). OTOH, deficient may be better choice of word (not perfect though).
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?

I had to join this forum just because I find the rumors here very interesting at times and it seems a majority of the threads I enter for the M are full of people mindlessly bashing it based mostly on reviews or opinions they heard about it.

I bought my M for $400 about a month before the fire-sale and I don't regret it one bit, I nearly paid $499 for it and was excited to see it on sale for $399 with the 22mm STM.

Before buying it I was almost certain I was going to buy a NEX-5 or Olympus EPL-5, both were around the same price as the M at the time and I refused to pay more than that for a backup camera.  I went and tested the 3 cameras in a store and couldn't believe the bad rap the M was(is) got, yes the focus was slower than the Olympus and the Sony, but definitely not so slow that it was un-useable (and this was pre-firmware update).  I still wasn't sold on it, but then I used the Sony's awful (imo) LCD sreen (colors were off, resolution seemed much lower than the spec sheet) and the even worse menu system, took it out of the equation.  Then when trying the Olympus I was very impressed by the AF speed, but again the LCD was awful and the menu's were barely any better than the Sony, but the worst offender for both was the build quality was nowhere near as nice as the M!  The M feels like a quality product, it's solid as a rock, has easy to use menus, a super responsive and beautiful touch screen and just great general fit and finish, oh, and it can use my EF glass!  Win!

After the firmware update I have zero issues with my M and I honestly think people that continue to bash it either haven't used it (or the competition) or they have unrealistic expectations for a $500 or less camera (I do think the original asking price of $800 was way too high though, that I'll give people).
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: infared on August 20, 2013, 12:08:20 AM
It would be foolish to look at the sales figures of the M and conclude the market isn't interested in this class of camera.  Canon was the last one to market and introduced an inferior product with no lens selection. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying the M takes bad photos.  I'm saying it isn't competitive in terms of AF performance, features or lens selection with micro 4/3, NEX, or Fuji's new mirrorless system.  Why would any informed person buy it at full price?

I really agree with this outlook...I understand that the M is built well and that the IQ is great...but the real deal breaker for me is that there is no VF available for it.  ALL of the competition has that covered and Canon showed up last to the party with no VF and slower AF??? I realize that everyone does not feel as I do...but I can not get serious about creating images while making monkey shines behind a screen I can't really see very well in daylight at all...so I would not pay 99 cents for a camera that I would not use.
I own a 5DIII full kit and I could never consider this as back up (but that doesn't make me "right"...it's just my outlook).  I have an Olympus OMD and 10 lenses which give me a full micro kit which I just love to use when I don't want or need to carry the big guns. Lots of decently fast primes and a joy to use!
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: RGomezPhotos on August 20, 2013, 01:27:40 AM
Primes, primes, primes!  I'd like those on a pancake, please!

It would make me very happy to see a pancake EF-M 35 mm f/1.8~2.0 for portraiture.

35mm or 50mm.  I love 50mm on a cropped sensor.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: brad-man on August 20, 2013, 01:39:36 AM
You caught me here  :); I would have to say none but I am outside +/- 2 sigma of normal distribution and I have a feeling so are you (which side is not important ;D ). OTOH, deficient may be better choice of word (not perfect though).
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?

I had to join this forum just because I find the rumors here very interesting at times and it seems a majority of the threads I enter for the M are full of people mindlessly bashing it based mostly on reviews or opinions they heard about it.

I bought my M for $400 about a month before the fire-sale and I don't regret it one bit, I nearly paid $499 for it and was excited to see it on sale for $399 with the 22mm STM.

Before buying it I was almost certain I was going to buy a NEX-5 or Olympus EPL-5, both were around the same price as the M at the time and I refused to pay more than that for a backup camera.  I went and tested the 3 cameras in a store and couldn't believe the bad rap the M was(is) got, yes the focus was slower than the Olympus and the Sony, but definitely not so slow that it was un-useable (and this was pre-firmware update).  I still wasn't sold on it, but then I used the Sony's awful (imo) LCD sreen (colors were off, resolution seemed much lower than the spec sheet) and the even worse menu system, took it out of the equation.  Then when trying the Olympus I was very impressed by the AF speed, but again the LCD was awful and the menu's were barely any better than the Sony, but the worst offender for both was the build quality was nowhere near as nice as the M!  The M feels like a quality product, it's solid as a rock, has easy to use menus, a super responsive and beautiful touch screen and just great general fit and finish, oh, and it can use my EF glass!  Win!

After the firmware update I have zero issues with my M and I honestly think people that continue to bash it either haven't used it (or the competition) or they have unrealistic expectations for a $500 or less camera (I do think the original asking price of $800 was way too high though, that I'll give people).

Well said and welcome to the fight forum! Yes, it seems the combination of high intro price and substandard AF turned off a lot of people, most people, almost everyone. It'll be interesting to see where it goes from here.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: CarlMillerPhoto on August 20, 2013, 01:45:50 AM
3. I would buy an EOS-M that is absolutely equal to the EOS 70D in every respect - and costs 300 Euro less, since it has no expensive to manufacture and calibrate mirror-stuff built in and no expensive glass prism.

I don't care what Canon does or doesn't. Either they produce exactly what I want at a price not higher than competitors ... or I simply will not buy. For the time being my 7D, EF-S and EF lenses are still doing fine. No need to buy EOS-M lenses and inferior/inadequate Canon mirrorless cameras.

I know!!!!!!! What's Canon's problem?! While they're at it they should get a clue and put all of the 1DX features into a S100 sized body at a $99 price point....  >:(
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: RGomezPhotos on August 20, 2013, 01:52:30 AM
You caught me here  :); I would have to say none but I am outside +/- 2 sigma of normal distribution and I have a feeling so are you (which side is not important ;D ). OTOH, deficient may be better choice of word (not perfect though).
Seriously, how many people here would have bought it just for the product; without $299 deal?

I had to join this forum just because I find the rumors here very interesting at times and it seems a majority of the threads I enter for the M are full of people mindlessly bashing it based mostly on reviews or opinions they heard about it.

I bought my M for $400 about a month before the fire-sale and I don't regret it one bit, I nearly paid $499 for it and was excited to see it on sale for $399 with the 22mm STM.

Before buying it I was almost certain I was going to buy a NEX-5 or Olympus EPL-5, both were around the same price as the M at the time and I refused to pay more than that for a backup camera.  I went and tested the 3 cameras in a store and couldn't believe the bad rap the M was(is) got, yes the focus was slower than the Olympus and the Sony, but definitely not so slow that it was un-useable (and this was pre-firmware update).  I still wasn't sold on it, but then I used the Sony's awful (imo) LCD sreen (colors were off, resolution seemed much lower than the spec sheet) and the even worse menu system, took it out of the equation.  Then when trying the Olympus I was very impressed by the AF speed, but again the LCD was awful and the menu's were barely any better than the Sony, but the worst offender for both was the build quality was nowhere near as nice as the M!  The M feels like a quality product, it's solid as a rock, has easy to use menus, a super responsive and beautiful touch screen and just great general fit and finish, oh, and it can use my EF glass!  Win!

After the firmware update I have zero issues with my M and I honestly think people that continue to bash it either haven't used it (or the competition) or they have unrealistic expectations for a $500 or less camera (I do think the original asking price of $800 was way too high though, that I'll give people).

Totally agree.  It's one thing not to like a camera for a particular reason.  It's another to say it's a big piece of junk.  I've played with all the Rebels and SL1 and I'll say..  They are damn fine cameras.  Nothing is perfect.  If you can't take a good pic with a Rebel, nothing is going to help you.  The EOS-M looks to be the same.  Not perfect.  But for what it is, it's pretty darn nice.  Would LOVE to have one!

Give me a pancake prime 50mm!  LOL!
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: pwp on August 20, 2013, 03:49:51 AM
It would be foolish to look at the sales figures of the M and conclude the market isn't interested in this class of camera.  Canon was the last one to market and introduced an inferior product with no lens selection. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying the M takes bad photos.  I'm saying it isn't competitive in terms of AF performance, features or lens selection with micro 4/3, NEX, or Fuji's new mirrorless system.  Why would any informed person buy it at full price?
I really agree with this outlook... I have an Olympus OMD and 10 lenses which give me a full micro kit which I just love to use when I don't want or need to carry the big guns.
I agree 100%. And here is Olympus pulling even further ahead with the NEW OM-D  EM1. I can't wait for this one.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/08/18/the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-the-king-of-micro-43/ (http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/08/18/the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-the-king-of-micro-43/)

-PW
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: noncho on August 20, 2013, 04:12:53 AM
I'm interested in macro lens for M, I have EF-s 60 macro and the same with IS for M would be great.
Telephoto zoom... well, I prefer 70-100mm small prime for portraits and street. Something like Pentax 70 2.4(small, great image quality). Telephoto zoom - 50-150 F4 would be better than 50-200 5.6.

Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Grummbeerbauer on August 20, 2013, 10:46:50 AM
I think if Canon put the 70D sensor into the next EOS M camera (a quite obvious move, wouldn't it?) that could quickly turn the M system from the being the EVIL system with the worst AF speed (although the recent firmware upgrade seems to have mitigated that issue at least to some degree...) to becoming market leader - in particular for tracking moving objects, where a purely contrast-detection based AF system has a serious conceptual disadvantage.
If they get this to market, I might seriously consider adding an EOS M2 (or whatever the call it) as a backup body to my 7D.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: vab3 on August 20, 2013, 04:03:34 PM
I'm guessing they will add that dual pixel technology to improve the AF, and then they'll have a winner.  As good a quality as a xxD line in a smaller package plus you can use your existing lenses.   This  "enthusiast" market, though, is  small compared to the smartphone shooters who want to foray into higher quality images, and really don't want something bulky like a DSLR.  That's the market Canon wants, and I think their timing is good.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Daniel Flather on August 20, 2013, 05:28:01 PM
I'd say most of the M bashers in this thread have never used an M.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Vagabondman on August 20, 2013, 06:57:54 PM
If Canon wants to head off the iphone & smartphone eating their lunch in the pocket camera market, they should come out with a FF EOS-M camera. Now THAT would be news.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 20, 2013, 07:10:37 PM
If Canon wants to head off the iphone & smartphone eating their lunch in the pocket camera market, they should come out with a FF EOS-M camera. Now THAT would be news.

Sure, that'd work. Because a FF EOS-M would fit easily in a pocket and allow people to text their friends.  ::)
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Bob Howland on August 20, 2013, 07:30:04 PM
I'd say most of the M bashers in this thread have never used an M.

I "used" one in a store for about 5 minutes. That's all that was required to determine that the nay-sayers were largely correct.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: kennephoto on August 20, 2013, 08:01:40 PM
I think if Canon put the 70D sensor into the next EOS M camera (a quite obvious move, wouldn't it?) that could quickly turn the M system from the being the EVIL system with the worst AF speed (although the recent firmware upgrade seems to have mitigated that issue at least to some degree...) to becoming market leader - in particular for tracking moving objects, where a purely contrast-detection based AF system has a serious conceptual disadvantage.
If they get this to market, I might seriously consider adding an EOS M2 (or whatever the call it) as a backup body to my 7D.

Yea the EOS-M is a terrible camera especially at autofocus, its a wonder they even added that option!  ::) For 300$ its great! It keeps up with my kitten or maybe I'm talented! Sure it's not 1D fast but um it's so much smaller lighter and way cheaper! Way better than point and shoots I've used and still better than my iPhone. I know everyone wants a 1Dx that costs less than a grand that's the size of the M but wow get real! Sure there's lots of mirror less cameras out there but EOS-M sure ain't that bad.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: LoneRider on August 20, 2013, 08:15:31 PM
I'm guessing they will add that dual pixel technology to improve the AF, and then they'll have a winner.  As good a quality as a xxD line in a smaller package plus you can use your existing lenses.   This  "enthusiast" market, though, is  small compared to the smartphone shooters who want to foray into higher quality images, and really don't want something bulky like a DSLR.  That's the market Canon wants, and I think their timing is good.

I have to agree.

As soon as I saw the dual pixel 70D my immediate thoughts where the technology will go to a shutter-less medium-high end camera. The EOS-M2 of course.

When the price went down I thought about the EOS-M for my wife, and maybe start looking at selling the 50D body we have. My primary body is a 7D. But with the introduction of the 70D my plans were very quickly scuttled.

The dual pixel sensor would be perfect in the EOS-M, and for a $600'ish camera the EOS-M2 with the sensor from the 70D and the same form factor of the EOS-M, would make a great camera. IMNSHO of course.

So, sadly for my pocketbook, I can see a EOS-M2 and a 7DII in the house in the next year or 2.

We will see, speculation is a fun sport.  And guesses if Johnny Football will be playing this fall???
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: tcmatthews on August 20, 2013, 10:31:23 PM
The biggest problem with the M was the zero store presence.  The naysayers could say anything they want about it but there was no way to prove them wrong or right with out a store presence.  I have to question if Canon US is even taking this seriously.

At best the current M is a nice advanced point and shoot with out the physical buttons.   In order to attract my interest the next M needs a EVF, more physical controls, a flip out screen like on 60d, and WI-FI.  In fact it needs to be controllable with out looking up from the viewfinder.  With out these items I will be sticking with my NEX regardless of canons superior 70D auto focus in a hypothetical M-2.  Half of the time I use it with Fd lens and I double that Canon will add focus peeking. 

It will likely be a long time before canon can compete against current mirror less cameras on a per feature basis.  So unless they release the ultimate mirror-less  I will be using a NEX probably for the foreseeable future.  Especially because none of the competition is standing still. 

That said I enjoying my nice cheep new high end point and shoot EOS M with 22mm f2.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Phenix205 on August 20, 2013, 11:36:23 PM
Shooting video with the current M is a bloody pain in a butt. I like the manual exposure control but the AF sucks big time. I am not expecting huge improvement on the still image quality but do wish Canon do something intelligent on the video function (70D sensor or better) and make the next M look better.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Dylan777 on August 20, 2013, 11:49:53 PM
It would be foolish to look at the sales figures of the M and conclude the market isn't interested in this class of camera.  Canon was the last one to market and introduced an inferior product with no lens selection. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying the M takes bad photos.  I'm saying it isn't competitive in terms of AF performance, features or lens selection with micro 4/3, NEX, or Fuji's new mirrorless system.  Why would any informed person buy it at full price?
I really agree with this outlook... I have an Olympus OMD and 10 lenses which give me a full micro kit which I just love to use when I don't want or need to carry the big guns.
I agree 100%. And here is Olympus pulling even further ahead with the NEW OM-D  EM1. I can't wait for this one.
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/08/18/the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-the-king-of-micro-43/ (http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/08/18/the-olympus-om-d-e-m1-the-king-of-micro-43/)

-PW

I can't wait for Sony rumor FF mirrorless that allow user to swap lenses ;)
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Zv on August 21, 2013, 04:24:20 AM
"If only the new M had wifi and GPS and EVF and flippy outy screen and a flash and better video" ... and all that other stuff you people want - you'd end up with a EOS M brick.

It's small and compact. Fix the bugs and leave it alone.

If you want all that other stuff buy a SL1 or rebel.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 21, 2013, 08:53:53 AM
"If only the new M had wifi and GPS and EVF and flippy outy screen and a flash and better video" ... and all that other stuff you people want - you'd end up with a EOS M brick.

It should have dual card slots, have a main dial and a rear dial, a bigger battery, and a FF sensor, too.  Oh, wait...that's a 5DIII. 

Agreed - the point of the M is that it's small.  Keep it that way.  Or, as has been suggested, split the lines and have one version with an EVF and another without (note that Canon does that with some of their camcorder lines).
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: dickgrafixstop on August 21, 2013, 10:28:01 AM
does the phrase "putting perfume on a pig" come to mind?
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: TWI by Dustin Abbott on August 21, 2013, 10:34:29 AM
"If only the new M had wifi and GPS and EVF and flippy outy screen and a flash and better video" ... and all that other stuff you people want - you'd end up with a EOS M brick.

It should have dual card slots, have a main dial and a rear dial, a bigger battery, and a FF sensor, too.  Oh, wait...that's a 5DIII. 

Agreed - the point of the M is that it's small.  Keep it that way.  Or, as has been suggested, split the lines and have one version with an EVF and another without (note that Canon does that with some of their camcorder lines).

I agree completely.  My 6D is already reasonably light and compact for a FF body.  The EOS M is a completely different animal - keep it that way.  The next generation of sensor for noise and AF is welcome, but the form factor is great (just please reposition the buttons so you can pull it out of a case without turning it on!).  I would also welcome a hair more grip, but that is nitpicking.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: comsense on August 21, 2013, 10:52:02 AM
"If only the new M had wifi and GPS and EVF and flippy outy screen and a flash and better video" ... and all that other stuff you people want - you'd end up with a EOS M brick.

It's small and compact. Fix the bugs and leave it alone.

If you want all that other stuff buy a SL1 or rebel.
+1 to leave it alone and just fix bugs
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Bob Howland on August 21, 2013, 11:12:51 AM
"If only the new M had wifi and GPS and EVF and flippy outy screen and a flash and better video" ... and all that other stuff you people want - you'd end up with a EOS M brick.

It's small and compact. Fix the bugs and leave it alone.

If you want all that other stuff buy a SL1 or rebel.

We'll have to agree to disagree about that. I never put my camera in my pocket anyway, so pocket-able size doesn't matter to me. The model that I want would have a user interface and size similar to the G series, up to G1X size, only with a world class EVF. I would also give a hard look at something like the Olympus E-M1. A tiny 15-85 f/3.5-5.6 lens would also be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: Mellonhead on August 21, 2013, 11:27:11 AM
My view is almost directly opposite to the mainstream opinion. I upgraded from my old 30D to the EOS-M. I prefer not having a viewfinder because I find it's not necessary with the good LCD screen.  I actually like the touchscreen controls, they just take a few days to get used to - like when I fist got a DSLR with all those buttons.  In fact, the EOS-M would be cleaner if they did away with the redundant circular control on the back and just kept the menu button.

I'm taking better pictures now than ever before because the EOS-M is a better camera than my old 30D.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: BL on August 21, 2013, 12:07:25 PM
My view is almost directly opposite to the mainstream opinion. I upgraded from my old 30D to the EOS-M. I prefer not having a viewfinder because I find it's not necessary with the good LCD screen.  I actually like the touchscreen controls...

...I'm taking better pictures now than ever before because the EOS-M is a better camera than my old 30D.

+1.  I leave my FF behind now (or stow it with the 40 as backup).   I prefer the way live view works with the M's touch screen for tripod/MF shooting for landscape/backpacking photography.  I don't miss the viewfinder at all and frankly find this experience refreshing, as I find myself not having to make compromises for the sake of ergonomics (keeping tripod eye level to relieve back strain on a long trek, profoundly less weight & bulk, etc.)

this little gem is a game changer for my work. 
but oh well... haters gonna hate haha
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: drjlo on August 21, 2013, 12:22:34 PM
I prefer the way live view works with the M's touch screen for tripod/MF shooting for landscape/backpacking photography. 

With the firmware update, the M's live view shooting is so much faster and convenient than any of the Canon rebels or my 5D III live view shooting.  M's touch-to-shoot mode is especially fast, faster than shooting via M's release button.  I wouldn't want to add a viewfinder to M at the cost of increased size/weight/cost. 

In a perfect world, I would have liked a little better sensor in it with a tad more DR and a tad better high ISO noise performance; I would trade away megapixels for that, maybe a 12-14 MP sensor or so.
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: brad-man on August 21, 2013, 06:40:19 PM
"If only the new M had wifi and GPS and EVF and flippy outy screen and a flash and better video" ... and all that other stuff you people want - you'd end up with a EOS M brick.

It should have dual card slots, have a main dial and a rear dial, a bigger battery, and a FF sensor, too.  Oh, wait...that's a 5DIII. 

Agreed - the point of the M is that it's small.  Keep it that way.  Or, as has been suggested, split the lines and have one version with an EVF and another without (note that Canon does that with some of their camcorder lines).

I agree completely.  My 6D is already reasonably light and compact for a FF body.  The EOS M is a completely different animal - keep it that way.  The next generation of sensor for noise and AF is welcome, but the form factor is great (just please reposition the buttons so you can pull it out of a case without turning it on!).  I would also welcome a hair more grip, but that is nitpicking.

If you don't use the neck strap, stick one of these on there and pull it out with that. No more auto on...

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-AH-N1000-Black-Leather-Strap/dp/B005OMONXY/ref=sr_1_13?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1377124639&sr=1-13&keywords=nikon+wrist+strap (http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-AH-N1000-Black-Leather-Strap/dp/B005OMONXY/ref=sr_1_13?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1377124639&sr=1-13&keywords=nikon+wrist+strap)
Title: Re: Some EOS M Information [CR1]
Post by: brad-man on August 21, 2013, 06:47:10 PM
And as far as the touchscreen goes...I absolutely love it and I really hope they start putting them on their DSLRs. The only physical buttons that I really miss are for zoom. I find pinching to be frequently inconvenient.