canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on September 14, 2010, 07:50:34 AM

Title: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Canon Rumors on September 14, 2010, 07:50:34 AM

Part 1: EOS

A lot of product announcements for the DSLR world, popular desired products still missing.


*NOTE* These opinions are loose and based the specifications of the products and initial impressions. I will delve deeper next week.


EOS 60D

As with most prosumer DSLR announcements from Canon, it has been treated rather harshly. I don’t find it all that exciting, but I’m sure they’re going to sell a lot of them.


Why I like it:





  • Price. At $1099USD at launch, this camera will quickly fall below $1000USD. From what I’ve heard, the camera feels quite nice in your hands and is a big upgrade to the Rebel in that regard.

  • Articulating screen, I don’t think it’s a deal breaker, but I know there are certain types of photography that will benefit from it.

  • Weight. There’s a big backlash that the 60D didn’t follow the path of the 50D and retain the metal body. I don’t think that will affect sales of the camera all that much. Lots of people love the weight of the Rebel, but don’t like the ergonomics. The 60D may fit for those people. If you want a metal camera, get the 7D!



Why I don’t like it





  • So far it’s missing microadjustment. That shouldn’t be a cost increasing feature. Put it in.

  • Old AF technology. It doesn’t need to be as good as the 7D, but something improved over the 50D would be welcomed.

  • It’s kind of boring, there’s not much new in the camera to make people excited.



EF 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS

This seems like a very calculated addition to the lens lineup. I wasn’t a fan of the last 70-300, I always felt it cost too much.


This isn’t a cheap lens from the pricing I’ve seen ($1500USD), yet it’s being marketed as an “L” lens newer photographers should look at first.


Optically; it better kick butt for the money.


EF 8-15 f/4L Fisheye

Wow!
What a unique and brilliant idea. One fisheye to work with the entire EOS line. No, it’s not cheap ($1400USD), but for the folks that want a fisheye and have various crop factors in their bag, this is a winner.


I cannot wait to try it out.


EF 300 f/2.8L IS II & EF 400 f/2.8L IIS II

Neither of these lenses NEEDED to be replaced, but it cannot hurt to continue to evolve your flagship products.


I’m sure they will continue the tradition of Canon’s big white lenses being the stuff of legends.


What’s missing from the EOS announcements?

If I asked the readers at Canon Rumors what they WANTED to see, there are a few things that keep coming up.


EF 24-70 f/2.8L IS

I don’t need to say anything about such a lens, it’s already been mentioned.


5D Mark III / 3D

A full frame camera with at least the 7D autofocus system and all the bells and whistles in a smaller package than the 1D series camera. Don’t increase the megapixel count, just take the 5D Mark II to the next level.


New Cheaper Primes

Lots of people desire a 35 f/1.8 or a new 50 f/1.4.


100-400 Replacement

For some people, a version II of the current 100-400. For others, copy Nikon’s legendary 200-400 f/4 and add it to the lineup.


Is there more coming before Photokina?

The million dollar question to be sure. I received an email today saying Canon will announce another camera body before Photokina, and not a 1Ds Mark IV.
I currently have no solid information as to whether that will happen or not.


Monday will be the deadline!


Photokina

I’ll be in Cologne attending Photokina next Tuesday. Check the site throughout the day as I will be constantly updating anything relevant to Canon.


cr


Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Canon 14-24 on September 14, 2010, 09:19:44 AM
No one else on here wants an ultra wide angle EF L zoom?
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: davidonformosa on September 14, 2010, 09:56:19 AM
Could the new camera body be the 1000D replacement? It is unlikely to be anything revolutionary. Just a 550D minus a few features. Probably 12MP sensor and 720p video.

I am hoping this might be launched with cheaper 30-35mm prime lens. That would be a lot more interesting than the camera itself.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: scalesusa on September 14, 2010, 11:52:05 AM
I think that CR guy nailed it.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Justin on September 14, 2010, 01:05:42 PM
Nailed what's missing? Yeah well lots of things are missing or are expected that don't come. 5D3 isn't expected. 100-400 isn't expected. 24-70 and new primes would be nice, but those rumors continue to persist for years. 1Ds4 was expected and now it looks like it is not coming. Super teles were due for upgrades but are priced beyond what mortals can pay. 8-15 is bizzaro but cool. 70-300 is a lens that nobody really needs, but will find a market.

Canon keeps us all guessing: not many obvious announcements in the dslr space.

Obvious for me is to release the 1Ds4 and the 24-70 2.8L IS, 14-24 2.8, and 35 1.8 EF-S followed by a 35 1.2L and a 85 1.4L IS. Then release a 3D or 5D3 early next year. None of this seems like it is going to happen any time soon.



I think that CR guy nailed it.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Jan on September 14, 2010, 01:59:31 PM
Could the new camera body be the 1000D replacement? It is unlikely to be anything revolutionary. Just a 550D minus a few features. Probably 12MP sensor and 720p video.

I am hoping this might be launched with cheaper 30-35mm prime lens. That would be a lot more interesting than the camera itself.
A 2000D? Yes, I think so... there is nothing in the lineup to compete with Nikon's D3100 at the moment...
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: CameraAddict on September 14, 2010, 03:53:39 PM
A 2000D? Yes, I think so... there is nothing in the lineup to compete with Nikon's D3100 at the moment...

There is also nothing to compete with the Nikon D7000....
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Freeze_XJ on September 15, 2010, 04:29:54 AM
There is also nothing to compete with the Nikon D7000....
We call it 7D ...

I expect a cheapy 2kD, 18 whopping megapixels, and nothing interesting. Just something to sell cheap kitlenses with, and hope you can draw more folks into DSLR.
With the 5D2 still going strong, i don't expect a '3' before next fall. 1Ds4 would be great, but they still say it won't come (i'm keeping my fingers crossed though, even when i can't pay one). A new flash would be nice as well, preferably 580++
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Jan on September 15, 2010, 07:00:42 AM
There is also nothing to compete with the Nikon D7000....
We call it 7D ...
Which may fall in price with the avaibility of the D7000...

But if the 7D is 200 EUR costlier it's not a real competitor for the D7000.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: traveller on September 15, 2010, 01:38:34 PM
"EOS 60D

As with most prosumer DSLR announcements from Canon, it has been treated rather harshly. I don’t find it all that exciting, but I’m sure they’re going to sell a lot of them."

Not at the price that they are currently advertising, it's the same as the D7000, which is truely a cut above.  In fact, the latter is everything that people hoped the 60D would be.  Canon shot themselves in the foot when they didn't put the full professional 45 pt AF system from the 1D series in the 7D.  This has dictated the retention of the old 9 pt AF system in the 60D for product differentiation reasons.  Combined with dropping the metal body, this has produced a camera that looks distinctly anaemic next to the main competition and have no doubt that this is a very important price point. 

Canon need to start taking the initiative with new releases, not simply copying what Nikon is producing.  There is a fundamental difference in philosophies emerging here: Nikon offer the best camera they can make for a given price; Canon offer the least that they possibly can and still sell the camera! 
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: dthomasla on September 15, 2010, 05:42:24 PM
There is also nothing to compete with the Nikon D7000....
...With the 5D2 still going strong, i don't expect a '3' before next fall. 1Ds4 would be great, but they still say it won't come

 :(  Is there a  consensus that the 5D3 won't come earlier than the Fall of 2011 ?   I'm ready to purchase a 5D2 and I would do it (after Photokina) if I could be sure there was another year in its product cycle.   But with the occasional rumor that it might come out in early 2011.... I'm awfully tempted to wait.   Yes, I can wait 3-5 mos, but not 12 mos.

How many people out there think that the odds for a new 5DMk3 in early 2011 are high enough to justify waiting?  Should I wait until early 2011 or buy the 5DMk2 now ??

Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Edwin Herdman on September 15, 2010, 05:54:26 PM
I think that CR guy nailed it.
Agreed.  He even mentioned the Nikon 200-400!  I feel like he's right inside my head.

Excellent wrapup of recent developments and user wishes I think.

Buy what you need.

If you needed the 5Dmk2 then you would have bought it. Since you don't appear to need it then you haven't bought it.
Normally I would agree, but here's the rub:

The 5D II does high ISOs better than the lower tier cameras.  But the 7D seems to have a much more sports-friendly autofocus system (based on reports from people and the basic specs - I don't know about the comparative sizes of the sensors, which can make a big difference regardless of the number of AF points).  It also has a reasonably large buffer for continuous shooting.

The systems which do high ISO and sports to a professional's specification seem to be the bodies positioned in the lineup substantially above, and which are more expensive than, the 5D - like the 1D Mark III and Mark IV.

And paying $2500 for what is a perfectly reasonable but increasingly dated platform doesn't necessarily make sense in terms of an investment - I haven't seen Canon bodies drop in price too dramatically but a new model would easily supplant the old one if released at the same price point.

On the video front, the 5D is okay but people might be tempted to get a cheaper camera now in view of upgrading to the Mark III.

You're absolutely right though, there's no guarantee the 5D Mark III is coming soon if ever.  I don't see them changing the line too far from where it is now - maybe they will bump up the specs and price a bit and still call it a 5D series camera; 3D sounds like they'd want to reserve it to go the stereo pictures route like everyone else - but I'm getting on a tangent now.
Title: Nikon is overtaking Canon
Post by: caoran9238 on September 15, 2010, 06:25:03 PM
 :'( >:(

It's disappointing. Canon 60D isn't at the same level as 50D. The quality is worth. Smaller, cheaper body, and loss of microadjustment puts this camera in consumer level. Canon is forcing people who want pro/semipro camera to upgrade to the more expensive 7D. Meanwhile, Nikon 3100D has almost the same function as Canon 550D, but $200 cheaper. Nikon 7000D announced today will sell for $1500 with 18-105mm, again $200 cheaper 7D.

It's just embarrassing...
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Engr Denz on September 15, 2010, 10:21:36 PM
May I ask why nobody thinks it is the 7D MKII that is coming? what is the product cycle of 7D?

with regards of 60D and G12, I will chose D7000 and P7000 because of video AF, weather sealing, Mag. body, and AF micro lens adjustment of D7000 and longer reach and remote control at P7000.

If and only if the 60D has AF micro lens adjustment and price at $899 I probably chose it than D7000.

Nikon rocks his time, while Canon sucks...

by the way I'm a canon user (7D) but I'm tempted to jump ship because I think there is a better future on the other ship. I wonder what would be the next Nikon FF?
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: J on September 15, 2010, 11:01:01 PM
May I ask why nobody thinks it is the 7D MKII that is coming? what is the product cycle of 7D?

Because the 7D will certainly last more than 1 year. The 7D is still a top of the line APS camera and newer models in the lesser lines won't really change that. The specs are still current and impressive today, 1 year later.

Rebels live for 1 year as the current model but stay in the catalog for about 2 years more. xxD cameras stay current for about 18 months--though how long Canon sells the older model at the same time varies. Full frame cameras stay current for about 3-4 years and clearly replace the previous model of their line. (1D has kind of a weird age history.)

The 7D Mk 1 will probably only start seeming outdated about the time we're rumormongering the 70D, which is quite a ways off as the 60D is still brand spanking new. I'd expect the 7D's cycle to be between the xxD and the full frame xD cameras, for about 3 years.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: c.d.embrey on September 15, 2010, 11:06:47 PM

You're absolutely right though, there's no guarantee the 5D Mark III is coming soon if ever.  I don't see them changing the line too far from where it is now - maybe they will bump up the specs and price a bit and still call it a 5D series camera

How would you feel if the 5D MkIII turned out to be a FF 60D. The way Canon has been acting lately, it could happen.
Title: Re: Nikon is overtaking Canon
Post by: c.d.embrey on September 15, 2010, 11:29:06 PM
:'( >:( Canon is forcing people who want pro/semipro camera to upgrade to the more expensive 7D. Meanwhile ...

It's just embarrassing...

Canon is forcing people to upgrade to a Nikon D7000.

Canon is making many poor choices in the products that they develop. Making a 70-300 L that no-one asked for, but not making a 50 f1.4, that has needed replacement for a long time, that people have been wanting for.

I've used Canon for a long time, and have three bodies. But I'm switching to Nikon. As good as the D7000 is, I can hardly wait to see the D300s replacement and the D700 replacement. This year Nikon has been releasing some awesome lenses, like the 24 f1.4 and the NEW 35 f1.4, plus the supersharp 16-35 f4. Lenses I need, but Canon just keeps on making expensive Big Whites that I rarely use (I've rented 400mm lenses three time in the last 5 years).

Always use the right tool for the job, and Canon has stopped being the right tool. YMMV
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Edwin Herdman on September 16, 2010, 02:39:40 AM

You're absolutely right though, there's no guarantee the 5D Mark III is coming soon if ever.  I don't see them changing the line too far from where it is now - maybe they will bump up the specs and price a bit and still call it a 5D series camera

How would you feel if the 5D MkIII turned out to be a FF 60D. The way Canon has been acting lately, it could happen.
I hear you there.  But then I suppose they would need something better to fill the gap an under-specced 5D Mark III would create.  Who knows...maybe they're considering just that.  I have to admit that I'd be interested in a split 5D Mark III line, if one of the cameras comes in under $2500 and is still full-frame.  That said, there's a lot more sense in splitting the lower lines by price and features than doing the same at prices above the 7D's $1400 or so.  People can drop $800-$1000 on a camera but professionals don't want to be messed around with - they want the best camera regardless of the price point, and $2500 strikes me as definitely an elevated pricing group.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Engr Denz on September 16, 2010, 02:58:59 AM
May I ask why nobody thinks it is the 7D MKII that is coming? what is the product cycle of 7D?

Because the 7D will certainly last more than 1 year. The 7D is still a top of the line APS camera and newer models in the lesser lines won't really change that. The specs are still current and impressive today, 1 year later.

Rebels live for 1 year as the current model but stay in the catalog for about 2 years more. xxD cameras stay current for about 18 months--though how long Canon sells the older model at the same time varies. Full frame cameras stay current for about 3-4 years and clearly replace the previous model of their line. (1D has kind of a weird age history.)

The 7D Mk 1 will probably only start seeming outdated about the time we're rumormongering the 70D, which is quite a ways off as the 60D is still brand spanking new. I'd expect the 7D's cycle to be between the xxD and the full frame xD cameras, for about 3 years.

if I'm not mistaken, 40D and 50D is exactly 1 year, while 50D and 60D is 2 years. they can randomly release a camera base on needs I think. 7D is still top of the line but with D7000 price at $1200 most rebel users may be tempted to switch. D90 beats 550D but nikon updated it to show to their users that their engineers is doing their home work.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: oalali on September 16, 2010, 04:16:56 AM

<p><strong>Why I don’t like it</strong></p>

<li><span style=\"font-weight: normal;\">Old AF technology. It doesn’t need to be as good as the 7D, but something improved over the 50D would be welcomed.</span></li>

I totally diagree. It needs to be same if not better than the 7D. the D7000 have a much better focusing system that the 60d (+ many other extra features) and yet it manges to only be a $100 more expensive.

Canon Should stop waisting their R&D money on things like 100MP sensors and sensors 40 times the size of Full Frame.  Seriously, Who needs that ? NASA? Even they decided to go Nikon! >:(



<span style=\"font-weight: normal;\">This seems like a very calculated addition to the lens lineup. I wasn’t a fan of the last 70-300, I always felt it cost too much.</span></strong></p>

<p>This isn’t a cheap lens from the pricing I’ve seen ($1500USD), yet it’s being marketed as an “L” lens newer photographers should look at first.</p>
<p>Optically; it better kick butt for the money.<strong> </strong></p>


Totally agree, I feel that it is just another way for Canon to make money. They could of made a new version but not an L and it would of been much cheaper and more afforable. Most if not all of the Canon's recent lenses were all "L". Which gives the impression that Canon is no more releasing any "normal" lenses.


<p><strong>EF 8-15 f/4L Fisheye<br />

<span style=\"font-weight: normal;\">Wow! </span></strong>What a unique and brilliant idea. One fisheye to work with the entire EOS line. No, it’s not cheap ($1400USD), but for the folks that want a fisheye and have various crop factors in their bag, this is a winner.</p>
<p>I cannot wait to try it out.</p>

I will order this as soon as it is available. :)


<p><strong>EF 300 f/2.8L IS II & EF 400 f/2.8L IIS II<br />

<span style=\"font-weight: normal;\">Neither of these lenses NEEDED to be replaced, but it cannot hurt to continue to evolve your flagship products.</span></strong></p>
<p>I’m sure they will continue the tradition of Canon’s big white lenses being the stuff of legends.</p>


I was thinking the same until I saw the weight loss! The fat 400mm is the newest "biggest loser"!  ;D

This is one of the biggest things that will make me stick with Canon at least for the next decade or so!  8)

<p><strong>5D Mark III / 3D<br />

<span style=\"font-weight: normal;\">A full frame camera with at least the 7D autofocus system and all the bells and whistles in a smaller package than the 1D series camera. Don’t increase the megapixel count, just take the 5D Mark II to the next level.</span></strong></p>

It should have the 1D's Focus system like how it used to be with the old film model. As, "Canonians" We are really begging for the minimum right now! >:(

What next? will we beg Canon to retain the Autofocus Feature and not release a body that only have Manual focus ? >:(


Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: davidjoseph on September 16, 2010, 04:52:41 AM
Save a few bits and pieces I think the vast majority of people need to catch up to the equipment skills wise ..unless there is some ground shaking breakthrough in technology what needs to be updated.. very little. Personally im glad i get another year out of my gear before the gear heads look at me working and tell me Im using an old camera. Thats of course before they realize my medium and large format gear is film  ;D
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: davidpeter on September 16, 2010, 08:02:12 AM
I could not find the reply button, so read my opinion as it is:

A have been waiting for a 5D mkIII for half a year, and I would wait another half, if i knew that it will defenetly come and shine like Nikon D700. However, if i still won't have a clue after Photokina, i get the D700 and abandon this sinking ship.

Sorry guys, put I need good ISO and great AF for low light indoor sports, and the 5D mkII just won't cut that. Nor the 7D with its overpixeled poor sensor...
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on September 16, 2010, 10:26:59 AM
I do hope that there is another new body to be announced in the next few days. If it won't be a 1Ds MkIV (CR2 rumor) or a 2000D (unneeded, just lower the price of the 500D and 550D since the 60D is DOA unless it gets a price-cut ASAP), I pray it would be a 5D2n, nothing radical needs to be changed, just add all the 7D refinements.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: tzalmagor on September 16, 2010, 11:53:53 AM
The oldest lenses not yet upgraded are:

* The wide primes, which Canon is evidently killing.

* Cheap-o primes for which a better replacement already exists, e.g. the 75-300 is still produced in face of the availability of the 70-300 & 70-300 L.

* The EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM from 2002, MP-E 65mm f/2.8 Macro from 1999, and the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM from 1998.


I don't see Canon going for a new-lenses-free-year, so I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: ELK on September 16, 2010, 01:39:43 PM
I do hope that there is another new body to be announced in the next few days. If it won't be a 1Ds MkIV (CR2 rumor) or a 2000D (unneeded, just lower the price of the 500D and 550D since the 60D is DOA unless it gets a price-cut ASAP), I pray it would be a 5D2n, nothing radical needs to be changed, just add all the 7D refinements.
Very  reasonable statements. Unfortunately though it's extremely rare that the manufacturers make new products basing on common sense (from our point of view).  Reality is that these are products for masses and the task of manufacturer is to make and sell products that attract all potential segments of customers, which have only one thing in common - psychological limits/ranges where they are ready to pay. For example 1 segment is, say, below $500, next is between $500 and $800, then $800-$1000 and so on.
This segmentation is the first enemy of common sense and unfortunately it looks like Canon concentrates on segmentation games more than on R&D and serious photographers' needs.
Someone already mentioned that Nikon currently tries to put as much as possible into a product in given price range, and Canon tries to put as less as possible... The recent cameras are good proof of it.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: awinphoto on September 16, 2010, 03:13:07 PM
While I can definitely understand the apparent let down from the 60D and some of Canon's decisions, but reading these replies, it makes me think that we've somehow gotten spoiled with all these cameras and trumped up expectations.  Seriously, my first camera I bought with my own money was the old school film rebel... It had a blazing 3 AF points and shot single shot mode.  It was one hell of a camera at the time... And then when I moved into the digital arena, I used D60's from my college until the fabled 10D came out... shoot... what did that have?  5 or 7 AF points... Beated the hell out of MF everything... Oh yeah it shoot at a brisk 3 frames a second... and we thought that was fast... Guess how much i paid for that dino?  Out the door with battery grip cost me over $1600 on my credit card.  Back then people were grumbling that 6MP was not big enough and that digital equivalent to film was over 20MP and that without a significant improvement in MP, digital would just be a fad for people too cheap to buy film.  Now people are grumbling because we have 18MP sensors and are "too big" and that they aren't shooting at 10 frames a second and dont have 45 AF points, and doesn't have this screen or or that flash triggering, blah blah blah... While in disclosure I do have a 7D and love it and it has paid for itself and then some, I think that cameras, as another poster stated, has gone beyond many peoples technical capabilities and if we all learn to make the most of what we got and stop griping the canon and nikon that you NEEED this feature and that feature but instead focus on the basics and improve quality, you will start seeing fewer cameras released but more substantive and impressive improvements...
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: J on September 16, 2010, 04:12:38 PM
if I'm not mistaken, 40D and 50D is exactly 1 year, while 50D and 60D is 2 years. they can randomly release a camera base on needs I think.

I actually think the 50D was rushed a bit so the design resources could contribute to the 7D. But I think it's worth remembering that at the time of the 50D's release, it too received a rather lackluster reaction. The only real additions were more MP and AF adjustment for several hundred dollars more. Everything else was basically the same.

Maybe the 60D will only last a year until the 70D. I think that's slightly more likely with the D7000 out there, but far from a done deal. I do expect the 60D to sell decently well anyway, especially if they cut $100 to respond to the D7000. $999 is kind of a magic number as prices go, after all. Even more so if they put in AF MA as a firmware upgrade.

I think it's rather funny that Canon was forced to reprice the 50D significantly during the D90's time and that they are repeating history in the next generation. I'm not quite sure what they were going for in designing the 60D to kill the D5000 and D90, as if Nikon wasn't going to update them...

I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but everybody has thought this (including me) every year for the past few years... ;)
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: awinphoto on September 16, 2010, 05:34:10 PM
if I'm not mistaken, 40D and 50D is exactly 1 year, while 50D and 60D is 2 years. they can randomly release a camera base on needs I think.

I actually think the 50D was rushed a bit so the design resources could contribute to the 7D. But I think it's worth remembering that at the time of the 50D's release, it too received a rather lackluster reaction. The only real additions were more MP and AF adjustment for several hundred dollars more. Everything else was basically the same.

Maybe the 60D will only last a year until the 70D. I think that's slightly more likely with the D7000 out there, but far from a done deal. I do expect the 60D to sell decently well anyway, especially if they cut $100 to respond to the D7000. $999 is kind of a magic number as prices go, after all. Even more so if they put in AF MA as a firmware upgrade.

I think it's rather funny that Canon was forced to reprice the 50D significantly during the D90's time and that they are repeating history in the next generation. I'm not quite sure what they were going for in designing the 60D to kill the D5000 and D90, as if Nikon wasn't going to update them...

I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but everybody has thought this (including me) every year for the past few years... ;)

If i'm not mistaken, if i remember right when the 40D came out people were upset that the D300 had a better AF and more MP than the 40D, and grumbles were so loud that Canon basically rushed the 50D to shut up the outcry about the 300D with a HD screen, all 9 cross type AF sensors, and more MP... who says Canon doesn't listen to the clients...

Then people complained... more MP isn't as good as we thought it would be, even though it has more cross type sensors than the 300D, it's still a lower number, and on and on and on... now in hindsight people are starting to think that was a good camera compared to the 60D... cant please everyone...

Bout the len... what about the 50mm 1.4... been hearing for years that'll get replaced and yet nothing... if i kept waiting for a replacement I wouldn't have my 50mm 1.4 in my bag like I do now... Instead of grumbling about the lenses out there, enjoy them... remember Canon's lens lineup is still the envy of many nikon fanboys...
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: J on September 16, 2010, 06:36:47 PM
If i'm not mistaken, if i remember right when the 40D came out people were upset that the D300 had a better AF and more MP than the 40D, and grumbles were so loud that Canon basically rushed the 50D to shut up the outcry about the 300D with a HD screen, all 9 cross type AF sensors, and more MP... who says Canon doesn't listen to the clients...

Nitpick: the 40D already had all cross sensors. The 50D did not change the number or type.

Well, I think a lot of old-timer xxD users would say that there haven't been much in the way of significant changes in their preferred line. 40D similar to 30D, 50D similar to 40D and now 60D dumbed down from 50D. I guess none of them were really hailed as great during their time.

I dunno. Read new xxD specs and you feel worse as you go on. Read new prosumer Nikon specs and feel better as you go on. That's just my take on how the companies managed expectations for this market space.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: awinphoto on September 16, 2010, 06:56:43 PM
If i'm not mistaken, if i remember right when the 40D came out people were upset that the D300 had a better AF and more MP than the 40D, and grumbles were so loud that Canon basically rushed the 50D to shut up the outcry about the 300D with a HD screen, all 9 cross type AF sensors, and more MP... who says Canon doesn't listen to the clients...

Nitpick: the 40D already had all cross sensors. The 50D did not change the number or type.

Well, I think a lot of old-timer xxD users would say that there haven't been much in the way of significant changes in their preferred line. 40D similar to 30D, 50D similar to 40D and now 60D dumbed down from 50D. I guess none of them were really hailed as great during their time.

I dunno. Read new xxD specs and you feel worse as you go on. Read new prosumer Nikon specs and feel better as you go on. That's just my take on how the companies managed expectations for this market space.

My bad if i was mistaken about the cross types on the 40D, I went from the 30D to 50D to 7D... So never had that camera but that was what I remembered... Anywho...

In some regard, you can call me an old timer xxD user if you wish... doesn't bother me any... but it just seems that many photographers, especially newer photographers, are losing the discipline and skill photographers used to NEED to do photography.  When u were shooting film, if you over exposed or under exposed, you were screwed... wasted time and money.  If it was close maybe you could compensate in printing, but you had to nail exposure, you had to nail focus, you had to get it right in camera.  If you really knew what you were doing you could do zone photography to get bad ass stuff, but there were a certain skill set required to be a photographer... Now, just about anyone could pick up a DSLR and say they were a photographer... then complain about lack of complete AF, or AF during video, or AUTO ISO, or MP et al.  It seems a lot of people expect the camera to do their job for them instead of the photographer CREATING the image.  Remember folks... what is the medium of photography?  It isn't the camera... it is light.  So stop making the medium and your entire focus about the camera... all it was intended to be was a capturing/recording device. 
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: pedro on September 17, 2010, 01:26:36 AM
Remember folks... what is the medium of photography?  It isn't the camera... it is light.  So stop making the medium and your entire focus about the camera... all it was intended to be was a capturing/recording device.
[/quote]

You seem to read the thoughts of my heart. I am currently using an EOS 30D as a happy amateur. And whenever I miss something it is light....And yes, to do high ISO low light shots with a little less noise I am looking forward to purchase the next 5D body once it's out for quite a while...meanwhile...doin' the best I can. And yes: correct exposure in my Contax 139 Quartz days some 25 years ago...was THE issue. You nailed it or you blew it. There was nothing in between ;-)
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: Peerke on September 17, 2010, 03:32:46 AM
Quote
Remember folks... what is the medium of photography?  It isn't the camera... it is light.  So stop making the medium and your entire focus about the camera... all it was intended to be was a capturing/recording device.

You seem to read the thoughts of my heart. I am currently using an EOS 30D as a happy amateur. And whenever I miss something it is light....And yes, to do high ISO low light shots with a little less noise I am looking forward to purchase the next 5D body once it's out for quite a while...meanwhile...doin' the best I can. And yes: correct exposure in my Contax 139 Quartz days some 25 years ago...was THE issue. You nailed it or you blew it. There was nothing in between ;-)[/quote]

Exactly. Thats why I would love to see a low noise performer on FF without all the bells and wistles some folks believe are necessary to create a descent picture. Reading comments on what kind of technology should be in a new camera, one starts wondering how the stunning pictures were created before the digitl era.

I know the 5DII would come close to what I need, but I would like to see less MP (lets say around 15 MP) and latest sensor technology.

Always nice to dream.  :P
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: tzalmagor on September 17, 2010, 06:10:22 AM
I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but everybody has thought this (including me) every year for the past few years... ;)

If everybody thought this, and I didn't, then I must be nobody  :'(

I failed the prophecy exams, so I'll have to admit I could very well be wrong, but my two cents are on those two lenses being next in line for upgrades.
Title: Re: CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1
Post by: awinphoto on September 17, 2010, 10:36:12 AM
I'm glad my words have resonated with a few here... While I'm not against innovation and these new features and things like HD video has been taken well with many of my clients and have given me a new skill set and allowed new products to offer my clients, these extra things (AF points, Video, Horizon Level, FPS, MP) are here to enhance our capabilities as photographers.  Seriously though, if you cannot get the shot you were seeking with 9 focus points, what makes you think you would have made it with 19 or 45?  I would have loved to ask Annie Leibovitz how many AF points she had when she photographed John Lennon...  Or all the National Geographic photogs how often they really use AF or their opinions of the needs of horizon levels or GPS as many have suggested.  I would like to see the 5D series to move up to about 24MP or so just to get to the max resolution a 35mm film could produce so the conversion to digital wasn't all lost and downgraded to what film had to offer back in the day... If you dont want to use all 24MP... then you dont have to use it all, but that way it is no worse than what photos had to work with when we were shooting velvia ISO 50 slide film... I would also like to see the 1Ds series move up to challenge more of a medium format class even if that means inventing more lenses to accommodate.  It was designed to be the flagship and designed to be the best quality studio camera... back in the day, studio photogs rarely used 35mm... they used medium format... 645, 6x7, and even 4x5 if they knew what they were doing... There is no reason they couldn't at least give us a square sensor to get close... In my feeble mind, that would be the flagship... not a glorified 5D with a built in battery grip and trumped up AF.  Once they get to that level, then the rest would be gravy...