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Gear Talk => EOS Bodies - For Stills => Topic started by: J.R. on November 10, 2013, 08:33:59 AM

Title: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: J.R. on November 10, 2013, 08:33:59 AM
I've got a colleague at work who is looking to upgrade from the 550D and the choice is pretty much between the 70D and the 7D. A 7D2 even if released tomorrow appears out of question because going by the current Canon pricing, it is likely to be out of budget.

Her question to me, and I put this question to you guys for help is, whether there is any reason to buy the 7D over the newer 70D?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers ... J.R.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 10, 2013, 08:54:07 AM
Not many.  If she plans to shoot a lot of fast action, the 7D's slightly faster frame rate (8 vs. 7 fps), and more importantly the significantly deeper RAW buffer and faster buffer clearing with a CF card, would be an advantage. 
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: ajfotofilmagem on November 10, 2013, 09:18:05 AM
The only advantage I see in 7D is 8 frames per second, and durability tested and known.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: JBeckwith on November 10, 2013, 09:28:22 AM
If cost is a concern you can get the 7D for about $400 cheaper.

Aside from that the reasons I'd go for the 7D would be for the joystick and the build quality.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Twostones on November 10, 2013, 09:32:17 AM
The 7D has the more rugged magnesium alloy body along with dust and weather sealing.  The 7D also has 100% view finder while the 70D is 98%.  The 7D has a larger body and grip that I prefer over the smaller 70D.  Video is better on the 70D so if video is a factor it would be a good choice.  The 7D can be had refurbished at a savings right now from Canon and authorized dealers.  Your friend should try both out to see what she prefers for fit and use.  Some ladies like the 7D's larger grip.  Some don't.  Either model is a great buy but I believe the 7D is more professional oriented for photography.  I wouldn't trade my 7D for a 70D.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: jdramirez on November 10, 2013, 10:31:00 AM
Have her feel both of them.  The 7D is bigger and I believe heavier.  The added weight should allow for more stability when hand holding.  Also it has a magnesium core which significantly is stronger than the poly carbonate core of the 70D.

If she's not averse to used or refurbished, she can find the 7D in good condition for around $700, and in refurbished with a 1 year warranty for 960ish before tax direct from Canon through the Canon Loyalty Program. 

Both are really good cameras and I don't believe there is a difference in low light performance... if she is doing video... then I'd lean her towards the 70D... but she should be good with both.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Don Haines on November 10, 2013, 11:37:04 AM
I've got a colleague at work who is looking to upgrade from the 550D and the choice is pretty much between the 70D and the 7D. A 7D2 even if released tomorrow appears out of question because going by the current Canon pricing, it is likely to be out of budget.

Her question to me, and I put this question to you guys for help is, whether there is any reason to buy the 7D over the newer 70D?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers ... J.R.
The battery life is slightly better in the 70D and it has the touchscreen interface as well as the normal controls... the ergonomics are fairly compatible between the two cameras, but people seem to prefer the joystick on the 7D.

Live view focus should be better on the 70D, movies will be better on the 70D... Jpegs will be better on the 70D but RAW files should be more or less comparable.

The weather sealing should be better on the 7D, but keep in mind that the 70D is supposed to have comparable sealing to the 60D... which is better than the rebels and allegedly the 6D (can't remember where I read that). However you look at it, without sealed lenses it does not make much difference....

Wifi on the 70D opens up some interesting possibilities for remote shooting...

I prefer the compact flash of the 7D to the SD of the 70D, but if you are not shooting bursts it does not matter.
 
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Zv on November 10, 2013, 12:05:19 PM
Hmmm that's a tough choice. I guess it depends on her shooting style and preferences.

If speed and durability is the priority then 7D.

If it's all round performance she wants in a relatively compact body that's geared towards video then the 70D is the better choice.

I've only briefly played with the 70D and I noticed it's AF system isn't as advanced as the 7D. It lacks some of the AF modes that are good for tracking moving subjects.

Wifi would be nice to have, you can really get creative and place the camera in all sorts of angles and use a smartphone to help you focus without straining your neck! Or do some cool selfies!

I think I would recommend the 70D. Overall it has more features, is smaller and lighter, newer and almost as fast as the 7D. SD cards are pretty cheap too.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: niklasR on November 10, 2013, 12:51:19 PM
If you're in the states, CPS might be something to consider as the 70D does not count towards anything anymore, if I'm informed correctly.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: DaveMiko on November 10, 2013, 01:21:07 PM
Not many.  If she plans to shoot a lot of fast action, the 7D's slightly faster frame rate (8 vs. 7 fps), and more importantly the significantly deeper RAW buffer and faster buffer clearing with a CF card, would be an advantage.

+1 ... I'd recommend the 7D for the same reasons.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: J.R. on November 12, 2013, 04:28:43 AM
Thanks for the replies. She doesn't shoot fast actionall that often and so I have advised her to get the 70D.

Cheers ... J.R.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: M.ST on November 12, 2013, 06:05:58 AM
pro 7D:

- CF card slot like the pro bodys
- better shutter system in it
- better to use (wheel and joystick like the 5D Mark II on the back)
- better on top display
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Ruined on November 12, 2013, 08:34:01 AM
In almost every way the 70D is better than the 7D functionally.

However, one cannot deny that the 7D is built better and simply feels better in the hand as a result.

This is why many are waiting for the 7D Mark II, to get better functionality than the 7D with a premium build - but that will be around double the price of the 7D/70D.

So if you have around $1000, get the 70D.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: jeffa4444 on November 12, 2013, 09:21:33 AM
As a 7d owner and given this camera came out in 2009 as opposed to 2013 I would go with the 70d purely because of the better sensor and Digic 5+ processor in the end its about images the 7d can get very noisey in low light.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: jdramirez on November 12, 2013, 11:05:51 AM
 not to train on the 70d  parade,  but the sensor isn't that much better than the 18 mp  sensor used buy the t2i  through the 7d. 

 video...  ok...  but in terms of stills it is relatively on par.  digic 5  has its place,  but if she is shooting in raw,  the difference won't be that substantial. 

I stop contend the best route is a 7d via clp or used via craigslist.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: DaveMiko on November 12, 2013, 11:08:42 AM
As a 7d owner and given this camera came out in 2009 as opposed to 2013 I would go with the 70d purely because of the better sensor and Digic 5+ processor in the end its about images the 7d can get very noisey in low light.

Just to put the record straight: The 70D sports a Digic 5+ processor, that's true. But the 7D features two, not one, Digic 4+ processors.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Zv on November 12, 2013, 08:37:10 PM
As a 7d owner and given this camera came out in 2009 as opposed to 2013 I would go with the 70d purely because of the better sensor and Digic 5+ processor in the end its about images the 7d can get very noisey in low light.

Just to put the record straight: The 70D sports a Digic 5+ processor, that's true. But the 7D features two, not one, Digic 4+ processors.

Twi Digic 4. Not 4+
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: ashmadux on November 12, 2013, 09:43:32 PM
Not a single reason at all. Oh, actually, the body doesn't feel as cheap...got one reason.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: mkabi on November 12, 2013, 11:27:02 PM
Depends on what your friend is going to use the camera for...

Stills & video, the 70D has more of the advantage...

But if you're willing to fool around, ML has unlocked 2.5K on the 7D...

Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: verysimplejason on November 13, 2013, 01:09:33 AM
sentimental reasons, ML video raw, sturdier screen (according to Canon, swivel screen isn't better than fixed screen when it comes to construction), extra FPS (if you think a 8 fps is better than 7 fps), more buffer between burst shots, price...  ;)  That's all I can think of.   Personally if you can get a relatively new 7D at 2/3 the price of 70D, then go for the 7D.  On the other hand, that swivel screen is really enticing especially for those situations where it's not so easy to use the OVF.   :)
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: RLPhoto on November 14, 2013, 08:16:46 AM
7Ds has slightly more AF options, 1 fps, slightly better build, and can be cheaper than the 70D used. It's due for replacement.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Zv on November 14, 2013, 11:49:39 AM
7Ds has slightly more AF options, 1 fps, slightly better build, and can be cheaper than the 70D used. It's due for replacement.

But you have to admit - even though it's been around nearly 5 years, it still kicks ass!!  ;D

Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Act444 on November 14, 2013, 12:33:04 PM
Sports and fast action shooting...ESPECIALLY if you shoot Raw. Switching from a 60D to a 7D, the biggest difference was the SPEED. While I frequently maxed the 60D's buffer during shooting, I never had to wait for the 7D. In fact, I found that I was taking so many more shots that I had to watch my memory card space!

However, I found high ISO/noise handling to be slightly worse (files required more processing to look good) and therefore a step back. The 60D was already noisy in low light as it is. That was disappointing and I hope for (much) better in the 7D2.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Ruined on November 15, 2013, 10:05:57 AM
As a 7d owner and given this camera came out in 2009 as opposed to 2013 I would go with the 70d purely because of the better sensor and Digic 5+ processor in the end its about images the 7d can get very noisey in low light.

Just to put the record straight: The 70D sports a Digic 5+ processor, that's true. But the 7D features two, not one, Digic 4+ processors.

That is true, but one must keep in mind the capabilities of the chip.  i.e. a Quad Core 2.4ghz Intel Atom Bay Trail chip is still a truckload slower than a Dual Core 2.4ghz Intel Core i5.   While the leap between the 4 and 5+ is not as great, the 5+ does offer enhanced IQ & featureset plus more processing power that contributes to better fps without requiring two chips.

I fully expect the 7D2 will have dual 5+ chips and blow the doors off both the 7D and 70D in speed.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: jdramirez on November 15, 2013, 11:48:50 AM
As a 7d owner and given this camera came out in 2009 as opposed to 2013 I would go with the 70d purely because of the better sensor and Digic 5+ processor in the end its about images the 7d can get very noisey in low light.

Just to put the record straight: The 70D sports a Digic 5+ processor, that's true. But the 7D features two, not one, Digic 4+ processors.

That is true, but one must keep in mind the capabilities of the chip.  i.e. a Quad Core 2.4ghz Intel Atom Bay Trail chip is still a truckload slower than a Dual Core 2.4ghz Intel Core i5.   While the leap between the 4 and 5+ is not as great, the 5+ does offer enhanced IQ & featureset plus more processing power that contributes to better fps without requiring two chips.

I fully expect the 7D2 will have dual 5+ chips and blow the doors off both the 7D and 70D in speed.

 Will it matter if you shoot in raw? 
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: ecka on November 15, 2013, 12:47:51 PM
3 simple reasons:
Speed - fps and buffer size that can do 25RAW series;
CF - faster and safer;
Build and ergonomics.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Aglet on November 15, 2013, 01:30:35 PM
Will it matter if you shoot in raw?

from the limited tests I've done, I'd choose the 70D's raw files over the 7D's.
Get the 7D if you NEED the extra speed, buffer, built quality, weather-resistance and control layout
Else the 70D is perfectly capable.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: AprilForever on November 15, 2013, 04:32:56 PM
Find a used 7D on ebay. They go for around 700 in good condition, las I looked...
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: DaveMiko on November 15, 2013, 04:37:23 PM
I owned the 7D for about 3 years. I've put it up for sale since I bought a 1DX. It was (and it still is) a great camera. Its only weak spot is its low-light performance. If one can live with that, the 7D can be very, very useful.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: dak723 on November 15, 2013, 05:19:17 PM
As most have mentioned - what does she shoot?

Action pics, sports photography - 7D

Video - 70D

Neither of these is that important?  Then it doesn't matter much and go for the best price, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: pwp on November 15, 2013, 06:37:50 PM
As a 7d owner and given this camera came out in 2009 as opposed to 2013 I would go with the 70d purely because of the better sensor and Digic 5+ processor in the end its about images the 7d can get very noisey in low light.
Here's a very handy noise comparison chart from The Digital Picture:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx)
FWIW I would have recommended a pre-owned 7D. They're amazing value right now in a market flooding with 7D bodies in anticipation of the upcoming 7DII.

-pw
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: sdsr on November 15, 2013, 08:03:24 PM
Thanks for the replies. She doesn't shoot fast actionall that often and so I have advised her to get the 70D.

Cheers ... J.R.

What sort of "upgrade" is she looking for?  If she just wants better image quality, wouldn't she be better off sticking with her Rebel and buying a good prime or two instead or, if she already has some, moving up to a 6D? In some recent sales I've seen they don't cost much more than a new 70D.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: arbitrage on November 17, 2013, 01:10:25 AM
One other huge difference that I didn't see mentioned yet:  The 7D has AF Expansion mode and AF spot mode.  The 70D doesn't.  These are the two most useful modes available in Canon's newer AF systems (including the 5D3 and 1DX which also have a 2nd expansion mode).  However, if you only want to use single point or are crazy and want to use zone or all-point modes then this won't matter.  Otherwise, it is just one more thing that does not make the 70D a 7D replacement.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: revup67 on November 17, 2013, 02:15:42 PM
I've considered selling my 7D as well to acquire the 70D as a replacement primarily due to the "phase detection" technology in the 70D primarily for video shooting.  This allows less "hunting" in video mode and keeps your subject focused the majority of the time.

That being said, the SD only option is a downside for the 70D for the FPS as many have stated, it's less rugged (i.e. build quality) and the 70D is only tested up to 100,000 shutter clicks whereas the 7D has been tested for at 150,000 clicks. 
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: drmikeinpdx on November 17, 2013, 02:23:14 PM
Here's a very handy noise comparison chart from The Digital Picture:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx)


Thanks for that link PWP.  It's interesting to see how little progress has been made in crop sensor performance since the T2i came out.  It confirms my own comparison between my T2i and my 7D.  Judging from my photos, they seem to have the same sensor.  And judging from the information at the link you posted, the 70D is extremely similar.  I'm very glad I have a 5D3. :)
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: K3nt on November 18, 2013, 05:33:01 AM
Either one is a good choice as an upgrade. If I was in that situation I would go for the 7D and the cost saving which I would then put towards getting some nice glass. Because, it does matter what's in front of the sensor.  ;D
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Steb on November 18, 2013, 10:57:56 AM
Stills - 7D
Video - 70D

I bought a 7D couple of weeks ago. Tried both the 7D and the 70D and as long as you don't need any of the new 70D only features, the 7D is still the superior camera. Better ergonomics, build quality and same IQ. Trying to select an AF point without joystick is not fun. At least not when speed is important.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: jdramirez on November 18, 2013, 12:19:56 PM
Stills - 7D
Video - 70D

I bought a 7D couple of weeks ago. Tried both the 7D and the 70D and as long as you don't need any of the new 70D only features, the 7D is still the superior camera. Better ergonomics, build quality and same IQ. Trying to select an AF point without joystick is not fun. At least not when speed is important.

I  don't use the joystick.  I use the wheels...  maybe I should mix it up and give it a try.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Zv on November 18, 2013, 08:45:40 PM
Stills - 7D
Video - 70D

I bought a 7D couple of weeks ago. Tried both the 7D and the 70D and as long as you don't need any of the new 70D only features, the 7D is still the superior camera. Better ergonomics, build quality and same IQ. Trying to select an AF point without joystick is not fun. At least not when speed is important.

I  don't use the joystick.  I use the wheels...  maybe I should mix it up and give it a try.

There's a custom function (don't ask me where!) that essentially does away with the m-fn button when selecting AF points so as soon as you half press the shutter the AF point can be moved. When I first discovered this it put a huge smile on my face!
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Richard8971 on November 18, 2013, 09:34:44 PM
I have held and test fired the 70D and I own a 7D.

The 7D feels better in my hands (larger than the 70D) but the 70D feels like a well thought out camera. The buffer on the 7D is still superior to the 70D and can handle almost half over again the RAW images (15 vs 25) and about 3 times the JPEG images (40 vs 110) before the buffer is full.

The 7D is also a full metal body where the 70D is a composite body. The viewfinder on the 7D feels brighter and fills your eye more. (100% coverage) The shutter on the 7D is more suited as a "pro" level camera.

I would imagine that either camera would do awesome in real world shooting but I still think personally that the 7D is the best bang for the buck if stills is your thing. If you are into video then the stakes change a little. The 70D seems more video optimized. Personally, I am not even sure how to take videos on my 7 and I don't care to learn. I use it for shooting only. :)

Even though the 7D is getting up there in age, it very much holds its own because it pioneered a lot of the technology that Canon is now using in their newest cameras. The 7D's lifespan and usefulness is far from over.

What makes the 7D even more attractive is that you can get refurb bodies from Adorama for under a grand and they come with a 1 year warranty.

http://www.adorama.com/ICA7DR.html (http://www.adorama.com/ICA7DR.html)

D
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Richard8971 on November 18, 2013, 10:29:15 PM
As a 7d owner and given this camera came out in 2009 as opposed to 2013 I would go with the 70d purely because of the better sensor and Digic 5+ processor in the end its about images the 7d can get very noisey in low light.
Here's a very handy noise comparison chart from The Digital Picture:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx)
FWIW I would have recommended a pre-owned 7D. They're amazing value right now in a market flooding with 7D bodies in anticipation of the upcoming 7DII.

-pw

Looks like the high ISO noise levels between the two are pretty close, at least close enough to not use that as a deciding factor in choosing one over the other. (based on this comparison between the two) Unfortunately, until CMOS (or CCD) technology changes, ALL digital sensors will have noise. What makes the biggest difference at this point is the size of the sensor and even more importantly, the size of each sensor pixel.

Honestly? I shoot all the way up to ISO 3200 without fear with my 7D. "Noise" doesn't stop me from getting the images I want. I know if a particular photo calls for some NR, I use either DPP or Lightroom 4. They both do a great job of getting rid of image noise. But again for the most part, I don't use NR much at all.

The photo I uploaded was shot with my 7D, 1/8000s, f8, ISO 2000 without flash using my 70-300L IS USM lens. No noise reduction, simply a RAW file processed using DPP. Nothing at all wrong with this photo, measured against any camera. Even in the dark areas (shadows) the color is smooth without a bunch of "hot pixels".

D
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: candc on November 18, 2013, 10:32:21 PM
the 70d has really nice features, i like everything about it except it is to small with big teles, your fingers pinch between the grip and the lens. with normal lenses it is fine. i would wait for the 7dii if you are using big lenses if not get the 70d
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: candc on November 18, 2013, 10:42:03 PM
ps. the 70d only has 1 c mode on the dial i think the 7d has 3 like the 40d which i like
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Mr Bankes on November 19, 2013, 03:53:18 AM
I'm not sure about your friend but I like buying used cameras. As long as you know what to look for your friend may get a nicer but older camera. My camera bodies are worth $400 (two 20D's) It's either that or a brand new 1100D for me. I've owned both kits and the two older but better cameras suit me quite well. I'm not to sure about the 7D but I was given the opportunity to shoot a 70D and they are a great bit of kit. Obviously your choice but make sure to have a look at the used option.
cheers
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Valvebounce on November 19, 2013, 04:16:59 AM
Hi Richard.
Very nice picture, I only have one question, is it stuffed?  ;D
I spent ages sat at the dining area at the Desert Botanical Garden in Phoenix with my 7D trying to get a picture of humming birds, I got tails and beaks and wingtips, but never the whole bird, not even enough to composite one from all the bits! :o
Darn those little blighters are quick, by the time I brought the camera to bear and focused, there was nothing there!
Anything with lesser AF was not going to catch up with those the speed they flit around.


Looks like the high ISO noise levels between the two are pretty close, at least close enough to not use that as a deciding factor in choosing one over the other. (based on this comparison between the two) Unfortunately, until CMOS (or CCD) technology changes, ALL digital sensors will have noise. What makes the biggest difference at this point is the size of the sensor and even more importantly, the size of each sensor pixel.

Honestly? I shoot all the way up to ISO 3200 without fear with my 7D. "Noise" doesn't stop me from getting the images I want. I know if a particular photo calls for some NR, I use either DPP or Lightroom 4. They both do a great job of getting rid of image noise. But again for the most part, I don't use NR much at all.

The photo I uploaded was shot with my 7D, 1/8000s, f8, ISO 2000 without flash using my 70-300L IS USM lens. No noise reduction, simply a RAW file processed using DPP. Nothing at all wrong with this photo, measured against any camera. Even in the dark areas (shadows) the color is smooth without a bunch of "hot pixels".

D


Hi CandC.
What you show there is among the reasons when I moved from the 300D I went to a 40D, the 400D or whatever x00D it was, were just too small in the hand, held one (x00 range) in store for a few minutes and could already feel my fingers starting to cramp, huge hands require a larger body for comfort. Of course the upgrade in specs was nice to have too. ::)

Cheers Graham.

the 70d has really nice features, i like everything about it except it is to small with big teles, your fingers pinch between the grip and the lens. with normal lenses it is fine. i would wait for the 7dii if you are using big lenses if not get the 70d
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Richard8971 on November 19, 2013, 08:22:49 PM
Hi Richard.
Very nice picture, I only have one question, is it stuffed?  ;D

LOL, no, not stuffed. This is one of the reasons why I love the 7D. The AF is extremely fast and I get more good hummingbird shots with the 7 than I have with any other camera body I have used so far.

D
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Valvebounce on November 19, 2013, 08:44:14 PM
Hi Richard.
Glad you thought that was funny and not rude, seriously though, how do you capture the little blighters? Do you have a sixth sense that lets you predict their flight pattern, shoot wide and crop in post, use a tele lens so that angle changes are reduced for following them. I was sitting maybe 5 to 6 feet away with a 15-85 lens and couldn't keep up with them and could not seem to predict where they would go to next.
Unfortunately we don't get humming birds here, except in cages, so I will have to wait to go back to AZ (because that is where we have friends) to try to photograph one again.

Cheers Graham.

Hi Richard.
Very nice picture, I only have one question, is it stuffed?  ;D

LOL, no, not stuffed. This is one of the reasons why I love the 7D. The AF is extremely fast and I get more good hummingbird shots with the 7 than I have with any other camera body I have used so far.

D
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Richard8971 on November 19, 2013, 09:46:07 PM
Hi Richard.
Glad you thought that was funny and not rude, seriously though, how do you capture the little blighters? Do you have a sixth sense that lets you predict their flight pattern, shoot wide and crop in post, use a tele lens so that angle changes are reduced for following them. I was sitting maybe 5 to 6 feet away with a 15-85 lens and couldn't keep up with them and could not seem to predict where they would go to next.
Unfortunately we don't get humming birds here, except in cages, so I will have to wait to go back to AZ (because that is where we have friends) to try to photograph one again.

Cheers Graham.

Hi Richard.
Very nice picture, I only have one question, is it stuffed?  ;D

LOL, no, not stuffed. This is one of the reasons why I love the 7D. The AF is extremely fast and I get more good hummingbird shots with the 7 than I have with any other camera body I have used so far.

D

Um, it's not really a trick but I will admit that I crank off about 25 shots for every 1 or 2 hummingbird ones that come out good. Most of the time hummingbirds will pick a plant or two that they really like and will frequent, and a feeder will help greatly. Here in Arizona we have lots and lots of hummingbirds so I can practice quite often. :) I would recommend an ISO of 1000-2000 and as fast of a shutter speed you can get for the lighting you have. 1/2500s to 1/8000s. F8 or higher will help you get more of the bird in focus if they move while you are shooting. You can use a Speedlite but even with an external battery pack, they are only good for 2 or 3 repeated shots, so I would recommend full sun if you can get it. Here are a couple more I got down in Patagonia, AZ just a few weeks ago.

I use my 70-300L IS USM lens mainly because I can zoom in pretty good and the AF on that lens with the 7D is lightening fast. (usually... lol) I do have to crop most of the time because they move around so much, its hard to frame them perfectly. The 18mp of the 7D help in that regard. I can crop in pretty good and still have enough there for a good sized print.

Shot them at about ISO 1000-1600 give or take with 1/2500s or higher shutter speed. Neither one of these were processed using NR, RAW pretty much right out of the camera.

Thank you for your complements!

D
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Valvebounce on November 20, 2013, 04:15:43 AM
Hi Richard.
2 more great shots to make me jealous.
Many thanks for the tips, I hope to come back to AZ sooner rather than later, but not cheap from THE UK!

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Snaps on November 21, 2013, 03:08:42 PM
I'd been for awhile been debating between the 7D and the 70D as an upgrade from my XSi, but that all changed the other day. My older brother was selling his 7D, and I offered to buy it from him. Paid him 675 for the body, including seven memory cards (2GBx2, 4GB, 8GBx2, and 16GBx2), two extra batteries, and a wireless shutter release. The camera itself has gone through only 3700 shutter cycles, so it's still practically brand new.

No complaints.  8)
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: ashmadux on November 21, 2013, 06:36:38 PM
Here's a very handy noise comparison chart from The Digital Picture:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx)


Thanks for that link PWP.  It's interesting to see how little progress has been made in crop sensor performance since the T2i came out.  It confirms my own comparison between my T2i and my 7D.  Judging from my photos, they seem to have the same sensor.  And judging from the information at the link you posted, the 70D is extremely similar.  I'm very glad I have a 5D3. :)

the 7d DOES NOT have the same sensor as the t2i. The 70d's image quality is at least as good as the t2i, and outclasses both in iso performance.

As the reigning pixel peeper supreme, the t2i's sensor is superior. the 7d has severe iso issues. I guess my eyes are better :)

For the record, soooooo many people post their cleaned up, shrunken images to show how good thier shots are. For my uses, which is design down to the pixel, those kinds of examples are useless.

post 100% screen shots of those unprocessed raw files. Then u will see which is better.

Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Richard8971 on November 25, 2013, 10:22:46 PM
Here's a very handy noise comparison chart from The Digital Picture:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx)


Thanks for that link PWP.  It's interesting to see how little progress has been made in crop sensor performance since the T2i came out.  It confirms my own comparison between my T2i and my 7D.  Judging from my photos, they seem to have the same sensor.  And judging from the information at the link you posted, the 70D is extremely similar.  I'm very glad I have a 5D3. :)

the 7d DOES NOT have the same sensor as the t2i. The 70d's image quality is at least as good as the t2i, and outclasses both in iso performance.

As the reigning pixel peeper supreme, the t2i's sensor is superior. the 7d has severe iso issues. I guess my eyes are better :)

For the record, soooooo many people post their cleaned up, shrunken images to show how good thier shots are. For my uses, which is design down to the pixel, those kinds of examples are useless.

post 100% screen shots of those unprocessed raw files. Then u will see which is better.

For the record? Really?  ::)
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Zv on November 26, 2013, 01:47:51 AM
Here's a very handy noise comparison chart from The Digital Picture:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Comparisons/Canon-EOS-70D-ISO-Noise.aspx)


Thanks for that link PWP.  It's interesting to see how little progress has been made in crop sensor performance since the T2i came out.  It confirms my own comparison between my T2i and my 7D.  Judging from my photos, they seem to have the same sensor.  And judging from the information at the link you posted, the 70D is extremely similar.  I'm very glad I have a 5D3. :)

the 7d DOES NOT have the same sensor as the t2i. The 70d's image quality is at least as good as the t2i, and outclasses both in iso performance.

As the reigning pixel peeper supreme, the t2i's sensor is superior. the 7d has severe iso issues. I guess my eyes are better :)

For the record, soooooo many people post their cleaned up, shrunken images to show how good thier shots are. For my uses, which is design down to the pixel, those kinds of examples are useless.

post 100% screen shots of those unprocessed raw files. Then u will see which is better.

For the record? Really?  ::)

How do you know for certain that the 7D and T2i don't have the same sensor? It is likely to have a sensor with very similar technology but the way the images are processed is different. The 7D has two Digic 4 processors vs one in the T2i. The AA filter is also different in the 7D. When comparing image quality between the two cameras it is very hard to tell them apart. What I found from my experience using both cameras is that the 7D has a stronger AA filter than the T2i which results in slightly softer images at similar settings (never bothered me as I shoot RAW and sharpen in post, it could be that Canon felt rebel owners were less likely to post process so gave the images a more sharpened look?) However I feel like the 7D had better colors, lower noise at high ISOs and maybe (though it could just be me) slightly more dynamic range.
It could also just be that when I moved up to the 7D I was using better glass and had improved my own technique thus resulting in better quality images?


I still have my T2i, might dig it out for comparison.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: dickgrafixstop on December 04, 2013, 01:33:41 PM
anymore the 7D is cheaper, sturdier and faster.  70D is new technology.  Both take good pictures.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: zim on December 21, 2013, 06:21:45 AM
Ok  I'm being lazy I should download both manuals, but is there any difference in auto iso functionality between the 7D (with update) and 70D?

Regards
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: jdramirez on December 21, 2013, 06:56:29 AM
Ok  I'm being lazy I should download both manuals, but is there any difference in auto iso functionality between the 7D (with update) and 70D?

Regards

When shooting in raw... not really. I seem to recall the 70D has an extra stop, but you wouldn't ever use that.  With the aps-c sensor, you generally don't want to go over 3200 because the grain becomes intolerable.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: zim on December 21, 2013, 07:09:48 AM
Ok  I'm being lazy I should download both manuals, but is there any difference in auto iso functionality between the 7D (with update) and 70D?

Regards

When shooting in raw... not really. I seem to recall the 70D has an extra stop, but you wouldn't ever use that.  With the aps-c sensor, you generally don't want to go over 3200 because the grain becomes intolerable.

Thanks for the info  :)
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: RGF on December 21, 2013, 10:36:02 AM
Very interesting discussion. My wife has a  Rebel 4Ti and she is frustrated with it.   I was thinking of getting her a 70D, but may wait and see if the 7D M2 is a better choice.  She will need a new camera in Sept when we take our next photo trip.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: jhpeterson on December 21, 2013, 10:57:57 AM
The 7D has the more rugged magnesium alloy body along with dust and weather sealing.  The 7D also has 100% view finder while the 70D is 98%.  The 7D has a larger body and grip that I prefer over the smaller 70D.  Video is better on the 70D so if video is a factor it would be a good choice. 
That pretty much sums up my reasoning. As ruggedness and sealing are top priorities for me, I may weigh factors differently, but unless she plans on doing lots of video work, the 7D seems the better call.
One more thing, the 7D uses the CF card, while the 70D takes the SD. If she take hundreds of photos at one time, the much quicker download speeds of the former might be another important consideration.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Zv on December 21, 2013, 11:04:21 AM
Very interesting discussion. My wife has a  Rebel 4Ti and she is frustrated with it.   I was thinking of getting her a 70D, but may wait and see if the 7D M2 is a better choice.  She will need a new camera in Sept when we take our next photo trip.

What's the matter with your wife's T4i that it needs to be replaced? And with a 7D2? Did she suddenly become a sports and wildlife shooter? The 70D should be plenty of camera for most people. Get it. Use it. Be happy.

Wait for the mythical beast and you'll end up staying in wonderland forever!
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: RGF on December 22, 2013, 04:07:41 PM
Very interesting discussion. My wife has a  Rebel 4Ti and she is frustrated with it.   I was thinking of getting her a 70D, but may wait and see if the 7D M2 is a better choice.  She will need a new camera in Sept when we take our next photo trip.

What's the matter with your wife's T4i that it needs to be replaced? And with a 7D2? Did she suddenly become a sports and wildlife shooter? The 70D should be plenty of camera for most people. Get it. Use it. Be happy.

Wait for the mythical beast and you'll end up staying in wonderland forever!

I upgrade her from the Ti to T4i to get higher ISO. 

Before reading this thread I was looking for at the 70D which I may get her once a refurb is available.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: AlanF on December 22, 2013, 06:05:57 PM
TDP suggests the 70D is noticeably sharper than the 7D

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=458&Camera=845&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=458&Sample=0&SampleComp=0&CameraComp=673&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=458&Camera=845&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=458&Sample=0&SampleComp=0&CameraComp=673&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0)

The superiority of the 70D sensor seems borne out by DxO tests (just look at their Mpix scores of very sharp lenses mounted on the 70D and 7D (typically 11 on the 7D and 13-14 on the 70D).

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Canon/Canon-EF-85mm-F12L-USM-mounted-on-Canon-EOS-7D__619 (http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Canon/Canon-EF-85mm-F12L-USM-mounted-on-Canon-EOS-7D__619)

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Canon/Canon-EF-85mm-F12L-USM-mounted-on-Canon-EOS-70D__895 (http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Canon/Canon-EF-85mm-F12L-USM-mounted-on-Canon-EOS-70D__895)

I am interested in these scores as I have a 7D and have been wondering whether to get a 70D.
So does anyone have direct experience of the IQ of both?

Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: candc on December 22, 2013, 10:56:55 PM
the 70d is the best aps-c camera so far. i have owned or tried them all, the iq is the same as the 6d up til iso 3200
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: sandymandy on December 23, 2013, 03:05:54 AM
7D is better than 70D for social network posing self mirror shots. Also you get to join the 7D VIP club for hipsters who cant afford FF but it doesnt matter becuz the 7D  cuz its waaaay better and iconic and there are even pros using it for birding and so on. dont forget to add the obligatory 50mm 1.4 lens or 1.8 II (or even older manual focus lenses!) for a more minimalistic  anti capitalistic approach.  then besides mirror photography™  u are ready for street photography in B/W. photos of homeless people especially around the xmas time where we, the rich people sit home and eat our gigantic massive meals are especially recommended (the social criticism! shame! shame!). dont forget to add film look to ur photos later. nobody has to know what camera brand u use (damn show off!) nor any infos about the working conditions of the people producing it.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: mrsfotografie on December 23, 2013, 05:13:38 AM
the 70d is the best aps-c camera so far. i have owned or tried them all, the iq is the same as the 6d up til iso 3200

In fact, I believe the 70D is in fact the 7DMkII because Canon consolidated its lineup mostly by stepping down the specs of the 'old' product as follows (I've posted this earlier, elsewhere on the forum):

The 5DMkII was combined with the 60D and has become the 6D (For enthusiast stills/MF shooters).

The 7D was combined with the 60D and has become the 70D (For enthusiast aps-c sports and wildlife shooters with AF lenses).

The 1DsMkIII was combined with the 5DMkII and has become the 5DMkIII. (For studio and professional use but with AF lenses).

The 1DMkIV was combined with the 1DsMkIII and has become the 1DX. (For professional use in all conditions but with AF lenses) This is a step up of course but the ability to play well with MF lenses was lost.

Note that this is in line with the way the Canon Europe site has listed the XXX(X)D and M camera's 'for beginners', the 60D,70D,7D,6D 'for enthusiasts', and the 5DMkIII, 1DX and 1Dc 'for professionals'

So from this we can conclude that we already have the 7DMkII (it is the 70D), and the 1DsMkIV is here as well, it is the 5DMkIII.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: Brymills on December 23, 2013, 08:38:47 AM
If you're shooting with 7 or 8 FPS modes then the 7D gives you the greater buffer depth.  From what I've seen in samples on line, the 70D has slightly higher IQ with higher ISO shots being a bit more useable.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: sb in ak on December 23, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
7D for the mag body and overall build, joystick, weather sealing.
Title: Re: Any reason to choose a 7D over a 70D?
Post by: candc on December 26, 2013, 08:06:20 PM
7D for the mag body and overall build, joystick, weather sealing.

i was disappointed when the 70d was announced and did not have the magnesium body. it has a metal core with a polycarbonate shell i think. that doesn't sound as good but after using it for a few months i think it makes no difference. i use some big heavy lenses and was worried that the body would flex under the strain or something. i have not had any problems and i use it in all sorts of conditions. it has gaskets and seals. i have never heard of one breaking in half or anything like that. they make motorcycle helmets and all sorts of things out of polycarbonate and composite materials.

p.s the 7d is bigger and i wish the 70d was the same size for using with the big lenses but for normal size lenses the 70d feels perfect