canon rumors FORUM

Image & Video Galleries => Sports => Topic started by: TomTom on November 11, 2013, 08:47:58 AM

Title: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: TomTom on November 11, 2013, 08:47:58 AM
Hi folks.

I'll be going to the Malaysian F1 Grand Prix next year and i'm looking for some advice on what kit would be best to take.  I have grandstand tickets on the pit straight for all three days and also might get pit lane access probably on the practice day through a friend who works for one of the teams.

I currently have an Eos 50D, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 28-135, and Canon 55-250.  I have been considering selling the 55-250 and getting a 70-200 F4.  Would this be a good idea or would the extra reach of the 55-250 be more useful.

Thanks
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: TrabimanUK on November 11, 2013, 09:25:31 AM
Lucky!  A lot will depend on how far away you'll be.  Reach is great and can never be underestimated, but with the speed of the cars, a fast lens will really help.  If you're on a slow section like turn 1, 2, 4 or 15, then you'll have a more time to focus and the reach might come in handy, but for other faster sections, the faster lens would probably come into it's own.

Have a great time!  :)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: TomTom on November 11, 2013, 01:49:53 PM
Thanks.  Not sure exactly where we'll be yet.  Do you think the 70-200 F4 will be fast enough or should I look at renting a 70-200 F2.8.  Or do you think any of the third party manufacturer lenses would be any good?
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Chrysaor on November 11, 2013, 03:26:01 PM
Was at DTM last spring and I had a EF 70-200 2.8 IS II in usage. Was a great lens and fast enough even with the 2x TC MK III.

http://500px.com/photo/34240018 (http://500px.com/photo/34240018)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 11, 2013, 03:44:37 PM
I've been to the Sepang GP a couple of times. I had tickets to the grandstand on the star and finish straight. Unfortunately it is a very big track and you will find yourself quite far away from the action there. If you could just change side and get a seat on the back straight, also grandstand, you'd be able to get a clwar view of the hairpin where there will be plenty of action, or as one poster mentioned the braking zone to turn one where lot of the overtakes are attempted. As far as lens choice, the 70-200L f4 would be good. You'd probably getsharper pictures with that. I assume its AF is faster than the 50-250.

Whatever you go for I can assure you will enjoy the race.  Make sure you have prepared you departure, it's complete chaos. I'd recommend to get a taxi to take you and pick you up, don't pay him all upfront though. Then he won't wait for you. Get his phone number and make sure to communicate clearly where to meet afterwards.

Good luck and have fun!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 11, 2013, 04:41:38 PM
I went to the Austin F1 race last year and was sitting in a grandstand at the end of a long straight.  I took a lot of pictures which can be found at http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/f1_austin (http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/f1_austin) .  Most of these are heavily cropped and I pretty much loaded all but the God awful up on pbase so it should give you a good idea of what worked and what didn’t.  As I recall, I was using my 70-200 2.8 for most of these.   It also appears that I took most of them at f/4.  I also used my 1.4 extender on a few.  Therefore, your lens selection may work out great.

Depending on your seat, you may find it difficult to take pictures from the grandstand during the race as people will often be standing up at the critical moments.  This is especially true at the start.  Also, unless you are very high in the stands, you are likely to be shooting through fencing.  My better pictures were taken on the practice and qualifying days as there were fewer people and you could move around to various locations.  I don’t know what mobility, if any, you will have at the Malaysian GP on practice and qualifying days.  As you noted, the main straight may allow you to get pit action during the race which might necessitate a longer lens.  However, negotiating it in a large crowd may be a problem. 

I would also suggest that you make sure that the venue allows you to bring your camera gear in as many do not allow “professional” camera equipment into the facility.  They have such a limitation in Austin, but they did not appear to enforce it too strictly.  However, I would hate to show up with a 400/2.8 or 500mm+ without knowing for certain that I could get such a beast in the gate.  Each facility may be different and what they say on their web site may not measure up to reality at the gate. 

The most important thing to bring is ear protection.  The sound is painfully loud and you will suffer hearing damage if you expose yourself to this for any extended period of time.  In Austin, the sound is magnified in the main straight as it is a canyon between large grandstands on each side.   

Walk around a bit before the race with a good walk around lens.  Some of the people attending the race are a spectacle in themselves.  The crowds, fences and limitations on movement on race day make photographing the race action very problematic.  If you have a press-pass with access to the areas with holes in the fences or scaffolding to shoot from, that is a different matter.  For everyone else, my thoughts on race day are to bring what you have, take a few shots and enjoy the experience. 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 11, 2013, 08:24:20 PM
Hi, first post in here but I felt compelled to answer because I've had similar experience researching tips and lenses for F1 photography.

I have been lucky enough to go to Montreal F1 GP three times in the past and gave a shot at photographing from the stands at the end of the start/finish straight. The first two years, I used a rebel XSI and non-L 70-300 IS USM and had real difficulty focusing on the cars and to be honest, reach was also a bit short.

Last June, I had upgraded to a 60D and rented a 100-400 L. That was worlds apart from my previous experience and I finally had a few good(ish) pictures. The problem was not the equipment anymore.

From my experience, the lens speed is not that important since I found it nice to try slow shutter speeds and panning to provide a sense of speed in my images.

However, I found that hitting focus was relatively hard because of the car's speed (and of all those high contrast publicities all over the place).

I've not been to Malaysia, but the circuit seems to require at least as much reach as for Montreal so my feeling is that 200mm is too short for shooting from the stands.

However, to illustrate the fact that I am only an amateur, here are a few random pics from this year race.

And one final suggestion, don't do as I did the first time and don't forget to enjoy the race (lucky you)...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Roo on November 12, 2013, 02:51:26 AM
Best wishes for your trip!!  I've been going to the Australian Grand Prix for many years but really only been into photography for the last 2.  The 50 or the 28-135 will be good for walk around  lenses especially if you do get into the pits.  You will definitely want more than 250 reach for the cars on the track.  As well as a Tamron 17-50, I've used a Sigma 150-500 for the last 2 years and it has done the job even when light conditions haven't been ideal.  My seat is usually on the last corner high in the stand. From there I can shoot over the fence to the second last corner, pit lane entrance and along the main straight.  I don't get too many good shots in the last corner as the cars pass too close to the fence to blur it out.

Similar to what Lloyd said, use the Friday and Saturday to your advantage as they are quieter days crowd wise.  From what I understand, the schedule at Malaysia isn't that full so there won't be much to keep you in your seat.

I would use the Friday to explore the track to see where I can and can't go.  Scout good vantage points - I would try to find high mounds so that I would be shooting over the top of the safety fences. If you can shoot at track level find a spot that close to the fence but the cars are some distance away.

Some of my pics are in the bottom half of this page - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10845.15 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10845.15)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Hillsilly on November 12, 2013, 04:21:41 AM
Just wondering if anyone had any additional thoughts in relation to lenses for night time F1 races?  Singapore looks like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Dick on November 12, 2013, 06:19:23 AM
My F1 photography advice is that take pics of grid girls. We've all seen the cars from all kinds of angles already. From my own F1 pictures I like the grid girl pics the most.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: TrabimanUK on November 12, 2013, 06:24:29 AM
Just wondering if anyone had any additional thoughts in relation to lenses for night time F1 races?  Singapore looks like a lot of fun.

Singapore tends to be better lit than a daytime race (espeically a cloudy, rainy European one like the awesome Spa), with the gigawatts of lighting they use.  I doubt you'd need a bigger aperture.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: nebugeater on November 12, 2013, 07:33:50 AM
Am I the only one that clicked on the Subject line on the front page thinking this was going to be about an old Canon F1 35mm camera?      ;D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Hjalmarg1 on November 12, 2013, 08:42:55 AM
Standard lenses are too slow for car racing. Follow your plan for getting the 70-200mm lens and you'll get better results. Focusing system of your other lenses are ok for all-around but not good enough for car racing.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: celltech on November 12, 2013, 09:43:09 AM
I will be going to Austin this weekend for the F1 race.  I have been to the track before to watch the ALMS series.  I had a 5D3 and a 70-200 f/2.8, non IS.  I ended up cropping like crazy...

Now I have a 70-200 f/2.8 IS II and am renting a 400 f/5.6...  I hope that combo gives me some better results.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: WPJ on November 12, 2013, 09:58:19 AM
Hi, first post in here but I felt compelled to answer because I've had similar experience researching tips and lenses for F1 photography.

I have been lucky enough to go to Montreal F1 GP three times in the past and gave a shot at photographing from the stands at the end of the start/finish straight. The first two years, I used a rebel XSI and non-L 70-300 IS USM and had real difficulty focusing on the cars and to be honest, reach was also a bit short.

Last June, I had upgraded to a 60D and rented a 100-400 L. That was worlds apart from my previous experience and I finally had a few good(ish) pictures. The problem was not the equipment anymore.

From my experience, the lens speed is not that important since I found it nice to try slow shutter speeds and panning to provide a sense of speed in my images.

However, I found that hitting focus was relatively hard because of the car's speed (and of all those high contrast publicities all over the place).

I've not been to Malaysia, but the circuit seems to require at least as much reach as for Montreal so my feeling is that 200mm is too short for shooting from the stands.

However, to illustrate the fact that I am only an amateur, here are a few random pics from this year race.

And one final suggestion, don't do as I did the first time and don't forget to enjoy the race (lucky you)...

might be an amateur, but I love the pics great job, I'm sure the OP will get some good ones as well,,I wish I was going.  And food for you at planing ahead of time.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 12, 2013, 11:11:06 AM
Just wondering if anyone had any additional thoughts in relation to lenses for night time F1 races?  Singapore looks like a lot of fun.

Well, I don't know about the light level but it needs to be good enough for broadcast cameras. However, I feel that the artificial lighting provides much nicer light than the usual mid-day sun of the F1 race. My opinion is that usually, the best light is during the testing and qualifiying outings.

might be an amateur, but I love the pics great job, I'm sure the OP will get some good ones as well,,I wish I was going.  And food for you at planing ahead of time.

Thanks, and I also hope the OP gets some good shots and enjoys the race!  By the way, other posters provided some pretty nice shots, congratulations.

Which brings me to realize that, when I look at my pictures from Montreal GPs, I always think I should have taken a lot more pictures of details and of the ambiance. I ended up with thousands of car images from two or three different vantage points, but only a few general shots. Use your camera between races to capture the ambience!

Finally, don't forget that supporting races provide good opportunities of finding good viewpoints and of getting some practice shots. I often find that cars of lesser classes have a lot of attitude and are quite photogenic!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: dppaskewitz on November 12, 2013, 12:19:47 PM
Am I the only one that clicked on the Subject line on the front page thinking this was going to be about an old Canon F1 35mm camera?      ;D

No, there is at least one more of us.   ;D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: TowcesterNews on November 12, 2013, 12:43:30 PM
You should be ok with a 70-200 - I used a 70-200 2.8 with 2x at the British Grand Prix - pictures taken as a spectator not trackside - and they are fine (well they were useable).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/towcesternews/sets/72157634389740602/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/towcesternews/sets/72157634389740602/)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 12, 2013, 01:44:09 PM
My F1 photography advice is that take pics of grid girls. We've all seen the cars from all kinds of angles already. From my own F1 pictures I like the grid girl pics the most.

I don't know Dick, but in looking back at my pictures, the man has a point.

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/147434480/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/147434393/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/147434427/original.jpg)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: TomTom on November 12, 2013, 02:27:17 PM
Thanks for the responses guys, and there's some really nice photos here. Think I will sell on the 55-250 and start saving for the 70-200. I would think it should be sharp enough to crop in if necessary.  I'll do my best to get there as early as possible and have a scout around.

One last thing, would the 28-135 (there's a chance I might be able to borrow a 24-105L) be wide enough to use as a walk around or would I be better looking at something like the 15-85?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: DigitalDivide on November 12, 2013, 04:10:13 PM
As a long time F1 fan and occasional race antendee, I agree with a lot of the points that have been made.  I think the most important one is to enjoy the race first and worry about photographing it second, especially if it is your first race.  Soak up the atmosphere and marvel at the astonishing, visceral sound the engines make.  My wife still talks about the first time she heard an F1 engine fire up, which happened when we were a couple blocks away from the Indianapolis circuit - normally she has little interest in cars, but that really got her attention!

The pit straight location will be good for shots of the start, finish (especially if Vettel ignores the officials and does a few donuts!), and pit stops.  Malaysia is a modern track and is very wide, with large runoff areas.  Getting close to the action will probably be difficult, so a lens with reach is likely to be a good idea.  That will be especially true of the pit stops, where you want to zoom in on the action.  F1 pit stops are crazy fast, often around 2.5 seconds, and it is just amazing to watch 15 or more crew swarm around the car in a carefully choreographed dance of pinpoint precision.  You'll have to be quick to catch it though. 

After my couple of F1 races I realized that the best place to watch is in the braking zone at the end of one of the really long straights.  F1 cars can slow from 200 to 50 mph in just a few yards, and if you get it right you can get great shots of the front brake discs glowing red inside the wheels as they approach the corner (the discs are carbon, and it takes a lot of heat to do that...).  This is also where most of the passing moves are completed, as a few others mentioned, so you can get shots of the cars fighting for the racing line.  Collisions tend to be the rule rather than the exception on the first lap.

If your race day seats are already set, you may still be able to get some good photos from the braking zone.  I'm not sure if it is the same at all the tracks, but sometimes there are no assigned seats on practice and qualifying days which means you can scoop a prime position if you get there early.  Use the practice sessions to scope out different locations and find one that works best for you, then occupy it during qualifying if you can.  The qualifying laps are the most extreme since the drivers have only one or two chances to get the perfect lap, and they are pushing everything to the limit.  Although they won't be aggressively passing other cars,  you can definitely tell the difference between a race lap and a qualifying lap.  And with the freedom to change seats, you should be able to find a place with a decent, unobstructed view.  Malaysia doesn't have the huge crowds and rabid fans that you see at Monza or Silverstone, which should make things a bit easier.

So from what you said about your trip, I think you'll get the best shots of the cars during practice and qualifying, and on race day you can focus on just grabbing a few photos of the start, finish and pit stops and spend most of the time enjoying the race.  Do scope out the podium location well in advance - it is not always obvious where to go at the end of the race, and if you want good pics of the ceremonies you might need to leave your seat before the race is over.  I've always preferred to see the finish and watch the awards on the big screens, but your preference may be different.

I can't say too much about equipment because I still had my old EOS 10S and a crappy 100-300 zoom when I last attended an F1 race.  My best F1 shots came from my first race, which was in Phoenix, and I was at the start/finish.  Back then the stand actually overhung the track by a few feet, and during qualifying I could lean over the edge and shoot the cars going past a few yards below.  I was constantly getting hit by pieces of hot rubber coming off the tires!  The coolest pics were shot with a 28mm manually focused to a spot on the track, and panning like mad whenever a car came past.  Most of the time I didn't get the timing right, but when I did I got a really neat effect with different blurring on various parts of the car due to the differential speeds.  Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) they are now very safety concious, so this sort of thing is no longer possible. :(

Personally I think the panning technique with a slowish shutter speed works best when the cars are in motion, as otherwise it tends to look like they were parked on the track.  But unless you can get relatively close when the crowds are smaller prior to race day, I'm not sure it will be very effective.  With the exception of the above Phoenix experience, my successul panning shots have all come from lesser race series like Japan F4 or were taken at private club track days, at small tracks where it is easier to get close.  There is no substitute for having your gear with you when you volunteer as a corner worker, but sadly the FIA doesn't think I am qualified to marshall an F1 race. :) ::)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 12, 2013, 04:52:37 PM
Hi, first post in here but I felt compelled to answer because I've had similar experience researching tips and lenses for F1 photography.

I have been lucky enough to go to Montreal F1 GP three times in the past and gave a shot at photographing from the stands at the end of the start/finish straight. The first two years, I used a rebel XSI and non-L 70-300 IS USM and had real difficulty focusing on the cars and to be honest, reach was also a bit short.

Last June, I had upgraded to a 60D and rented a 100-400 L. That was worlds apart from my previous experience and I finally had a few good(ish) pictures. The problem was not the equipment anymore.

From my experience, the lens speed is not that important since I found it nice to try slow shutter speeds and panning to provide a sense of speed in my images.

However, I found that hitting focus was relatively hard because of the car's speed (and of all those high contrast publicities all over the place).

I've not been to Malaysia, but the circuit seems to require at least as much reach as for Montreal so my feeling is that 200mm is too short for shooting from the stands.

However, to illustrate the fact that I am only an amateur, here are a few random pics from this year race.

And one final suggestion, don't do as I did the first time and don't forget to enjoy the race (lucky you)...

Nice shot!!!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 12, 2013, 04:53:47 PM
I went to the Austin F1 race last year and was sitting in a grandstand at the end of a long straight.  I took a lot of pictures which can be found at http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/f1_austin (http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/f1_austin) .  Most of these are heavily cropped and I pretty much loaded all but the God awful up on pbase so it should give you a good idea of what worked and what didn’t.  As I recall, I was using my 70-200 2.8 for most of these.   It also appears that I took most of them at f/4.  I also used my 1.4 extender on a few.  Therefore, your lens selection may work out great.

Depending on your seat, you may find it difficult to take pictures from the grandstand during the race as people will often be standing up at the critical moments.  This is especially true at the start.  Also, unless you are very high in the stands, you are likely to be shooting through fencing.  My better pictures were taken on the practice and qualifying days as there were fewer people and you could move around to various locations.  I don’t know what mobility, if any, you will have at the Malaysian GP on practice and qualifying days.  As you noted, the main straight may allow you to get pit action during the race which might necessitate a longer lens.  However, negotiating it in a large crowd may be a problem. 

I would also suggest that you make sure that the venue allows you to bring your camera gear in as many do not allow “professional” camera equipment into the facility.  They have such a limitation in Austin, but they did not appear to enforce it too strictly.  However, I would hate to show up with a 400/2.8 or 500mm+ without knowing for certain that I could get such a beast in the gate.  Each facility may be different and what they say on their web site may not measure up to reality at the gate. 

The most important thing to bring is ear protection.  The sound is painfully loud and you will suffer hearing damage if you expose yourself to this for any extended period of time.  In Austin, the sound is magnified in the main straight as it is a canyon between large grandstands on each side.   

Walk around a bit before the race with a good walk around lens.  Some of the people attending the race are a spectacle in themselves.  The crowds, fences and limitations on movement on race day make photographing the race action very problematic.  If you have a press-pass with access to the areas with holes in the fences or scaffolding to shoot from, that is a different matter.  For everyone else, my thoughts on race day are to bring what you have, take a few shots and enjoy the experience.

Excellent advice, and excellent pictures!  Great job of posting so many on pbase.  I hope to see the Austin race sometime, and also the "Jersey" race if it happens.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 12, 2013, 05:10:55 PM
Hi folks.

I'll be going to the Malaysian F1 Grand Prix next year and i'm looking for some advice on what kit would be best to take.  I have grandstand tickets on the pit straight for all three days and also might get pit lane access probably on the practice day through a friend who works for one of the teams.

I currently have an Eos 50D, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 28-135, and Canon 55-250.  I have been considering selling the 55-250 and getting a 70-200 F4.  Would this be a good idea or would the extra reach of the 55-250 be more useful.

Thanks

Excellent Thread !!!

I've not been to one of these yet, but I would heavily suggest renting a 1DX or even better, a 1D4, along with a 70-300L.  The suggestions about a 70-200 f/2.8 are quite unnecessary, especially when using a 1.4x TC.  The 100-400 would be far better than that (400 is way more reach than 280mm).  But I feel that overall, if you can get in a good position for shooting...a 70-300L should more than suffice (especially on the 1D4, or any other crop format camera...the 1D4 gives you a pro body and 10fps).  If you can only get a far distance away, then consider renting a big lens.  If you really are resistant to renting the nicer gear, then I agree with all who have suggested 200mm is not enough.

And maybe most important of all (besides bringing good earplugs), would be...PREPARE TO TAKE QUITE A BIT OF VIDEO FOOTAGE along with the stills.  This is one time where still pictures can only do so much justice to a sport!  Either bring a dedicated video camera, or else if you wind up with a DSLR that does video, practice with it a lot before-hand.  Best of all would be if your companion can do either video or stills...where you can switch out with him/her, so that you both get to enjoy taking both video and stills at the same time.

One thing that is both a plus and a minus (you may know this already):  2014 sees all new smaller V6 engines and chassis, with state of the art turbo charging that is all combined with electric motor assist/batteries (I don't like this part)...but it's possible the cars might be a bit quieter than the current V8's.  Obviously they won't be as quiet as normal "turbo" cars can be.

I have recorded every race broadcast for the last 4 years, and can never get enough!  All other racing other than Le Mans series (and occasionally WRC), pales in comparison for me...especially "indycar"...what a watered down version of racing!   
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Roo on November 13, 2013, 02:19:54 AM
I would heavily suggest renting a 1DX or even better, a 1D4, along with a 70-300L... 

It pays to check the conditions of entry before going down that path as quite often there are restrictions on the allowable equipment.  At Melbourne the strict rules are that there is no professional equipment allowed and that includes bodies, L type lenses (especially 300mm and over), monopods/tripods etc.  While they are still written in the terms and conditions (and I've known of a few people being turned away over the years), they have relaxed a bit on the gates but not completely.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 13, 2013, 01:10:06 PM
Thanks for the responses guys, and there's some really nice photos here. Think I will sell on the 55-250 and start saving for the 70-200. I would think it should be sharp enough to crop in if necessary.  I'll do my best to get there as early as possible and have a scout around.

One last thing, would the 28-135 (there's a chance I might be able to borrow a 24-105L) be wide enough to use as a walk around or would I be better looking at something like the 15-85?

Thanks again.

Good, but I should say that cropping is only part of the solution. If you are too far away, the focusing will be much harder because of the small size of the subject. With my 70-300mm, I found that focus often was on the contrasty advertising found in the background rather than on the drivers head. The autofocus will always go for the highest contrast object so the more there is under the AF point, the harder it gets to ensure the AF goes for what you want.

I should add that the pictures I posted were cropped by at least 20% despite having a 400mm lens. Mind that they were cropped because I only used the center AF point which kind of screws up the composition but is much more effective. Therefore, the cropping was more to help with the composition than because of the lack of reach.

As for the 28-135mm as a walkaround lens, I found that I ended up trying to capture the ambiance with the telephoto since there was a bit of a crowd and changing lens was not so easy due to the proximity with the rest of the audience. Nevertheless, I found it nice to have my Sigma 8-16mm for really wide shots. If the circuit and its premises are anything like in Montreal, it is quite vast and you need some wide lens to really capture the extent.

Here are a few "atmosphere" pics from this year's race. For the shot at 8mm, I was just under the stands in order to be able to capture all of this and on the higher res image, you can (barely) see the cars preparing on the grid. The other two are from the stand where I was seated (12).
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 14, 2013, 10:40:27 AM
...
One last thing, would the 28-135 (there's a chance I might be able to borrow a 24-105L) be wide enough to use as a walk around or would I be better looking at something like the 15-85?
...

Yes, thats me again!

If I may add to my previous post, I've had a look at your post hiistory and saw that you have been longing for a wider lens for a while don't you? I also saw that you were not afraid of third party lenses. As a result, I will say that I find my Tamron 17-50 F2.8 (Non-VC) to be very good for the price. So if like me you prefer a wider aperture to more zoom range, this lens is a good bet, but it concedes a lot in the long end.

I've only seen good comments on Canon's 15-85 (apart from the price which seems steep to me) so I doubt you'd find yourself flawed if you bought it.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 14, 2013, 02:09:27 PM
...
One last thing, would the 28-135 (there's a chance I might be able to borrow a 24-105L) be wide enough to use as a walk around or would I be better looking at something like the 15-85?
...

Yes, thats me again!

If I may add to my previous post, I've had a look at your post hiistory and saw that you have been longing for a wider lens for a while don't you? I also saw that you were not afraid of third party lenses. As a result, I will say that I find my Tamron 17-50 F2.8 (Non-VC) to be very good for the price. So if like me you prefer a wider aperture to more zoom range, this lens is a good bet, but it concedes a lot in the long end.

I've only seen good comments on Canon's 15-85 (apart from the price which seems steep to me) so I doubt you'd find yourself flawed if you bought it.
Ho, the 15-85 is a great lens. It's  more or less an L-quality lens, lacking the weather sealing and the red ring.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on November 17, 2013, 01:36:27 PM
Thanks for the responses guys, and there's some really nice photos here. Think I will sell on the 55-250 and start saving for the 70-200. I would think it should be sharp enough to crop in if necessary.  I'll do my best to get there as early as possible and have a scout around.

One last thing, would the 28-135 (there's a chance I might be able to borrow a 24-105L) be wide enough to use as a walk around or would I be better looking at something like the 15-85?

Thanks again.

I’m a massive F1 fan, I work as a volunteer on a JCB in Abu Dhabi on turn 7 (the JCB with the Scotland flag every year) and I’m also quite new to photography, I have the 150-500 Sigma and I use a 550D, I was lucky enough to go to Monaco this year and use my Sigma, I’ve added a couple of images, they’re good for me and I’m happy with them, I’ll bet that a 70-200mm f2.8 or f4 + 2x convertor will offer superb clarity no matter what variety you buy (f4/f2.8), as everyone loves these particular L series lenses, but you’ll still need to crop your images, all my images are cropped to some extent, I hope this helps mate.  Above all enjoy the race, I’m sitting here waiting for Austin to begin and it’s 10.30pm on a school night!!!  8)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on November 17, 2013, 01:49:27 PM
Sorry, can’t resist posting another couple of pic’s, hope you enjoy!!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 17, 2013, 07:33:38 PM
I went to the practice and qualifying sessions of this weekend’s F1 race in Austin at the Circuit of the Americas (COTA).  Representative photos can be found at http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/2013_austin_f1 (http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/2013_austin_f1)

The COTA web site indicated they had no restrictions on the size of detachable lenses.  So on Friday’s practice day I decided to bring my old manual focus Canon FD 800mm with Ed Mika’s adapter on my 5Diii.  I thought that trying to capture these high-speed cars with an 800mm on a monopod with no autofocus or image stabilization would be an exercise in futility, but I got some great shots.  Keeper rate was far south of 50%, but I am no pro and don’t have to get the shot.  It also helps that I live in Austin, so this is not a once in a lifetime opportunity that I don’t want to blow.

I also brought a friend’s 400mm 5.6 which I have used on the COTA track before for the motorcycle GP and it would be a great option.  I didn’t use it too much as I wanted to experiment with the 800mm.  The 400mm is obviously a more portable option than the 2 foot long and heavy 800mm.  However, next year I probably will just bring the 800 to practice day as it was just a lot of fun trying to manually focus and get the shot.  Pre-focusing on a spot worked the most reliably, but it was fun to try to also attempt to focus on the cars in random areas.

On Saturday, qualifying day, I decided to recover from my hernia from carrying around the 800 on Friday, and just brought my 5Diii and a 24-105.  I was sitting on the 23rd row at the straight following turn 15 so my line of sight to the cars was just above the top of the fence.  I tried my hand at 125/sec exposure pans to get motion blur and initially got a very low keeper rate.  I got better when I tried to focus in on one spot on the car and keep it in my center focus spot as the car flew by.  Needless to say, the photos on my Pbase account using the 24-105 are heavily cropped.

The bottom line for me was to have good quality lenses, even if they may lack such things as autofocus and image stabilization, be prepared to take a lot of photos to up your chances of keepers and, if you are going to have to do a lot of cropping, the more resolution your camera has the better.   

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421811/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421785/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421800/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421858/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421857/original.jpg)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Roo on November 18, 2013, 01:46:58 AM
Great shots Lloyd.  Last year's shots were good but these are a step above by nicely capturing the cars in motion.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 18, 2013, 10:49:17 AM
Great shots Lloyd.  Last year's shots were good but these are a step above by nicely capturing the cars in motion.

It's odd but I had more keepers manually focusing with the 800mm than I did trying to pan with the 24-105mm.  I think it is a matter of more experience manually focusing with the 800mm than panning.

I see so many posts from very experienced photographers that have such a high skill level they become bored as they have very few mountains left to climb.  For me, I am at the foothills, with many new skills to aquire.  It is kind of like seeing your favorite movie for the first time.  So far, I am enjoying the journey. Thanks for noticing the progression. 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 18, 2013, 01:25:03 PM
Great shots Lloyd.  Last year's shots were good but these are a step above by nicely capturing the cars in motion.

It's odd but I had more keepers manually focusing with the 800mm than I did trying to pan with the 24-105mm.  I think it is a matter of more experience manually focusing with the 800mm than panning.

I see so many posts from very experienced photographers that have such a high skill level they become bored as they have very few mountains left to climb.  For me, I am at the foothills, with many new skills to aquire.  It is kind of like seeing your favorite movie for the first time.  So far, I am enjoying the journey. Thanks for noticing the progression.

Those are nice shots Lloyd! Your panned shots provide a nice sense of speed while the one with the ferraris has a feeeling of rivalry in it that is interesting.

As for your AF issues, I think that, as I said in my previous post, if you are using too short a focal length the AF sensors are going to catch bigger objects with high contrast instead of the details of your subject. For example, helmet details are going to be too small for the AF sensor to resolve and it might just catch the curb in the background instead.

I enjoy this thread so much I am just going to have to add a few more of my pics...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 18, 2013, 02:28:25 PM
Thanks for the responses guys, and there's some really nice photos here. Think I will sell on the 55-250 and start saving for the 70-200. I would think it should be sharp enough to crop in if necessary.  I'll do my best to get there as early as possible and have a scout around.

One last thing, would the 28-135 (there's a chance I might be able to borrow a 24-105L) be wide enough to use as a walk around or would I be better looking at something like the 15-85?

Thanks again.
The 15-85 is a great lens, but for this venue the 24-105 or 28-135 will be wide enough. Sepang is huge, between the grandstands there is a very big space and you are not likely to need anything wider.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 18, 2013, 03:39:51 PM
As for your AF issues, I think that, as I said in my previous post, if you are using too short a focal length the AF sensors are going to catch bigger objects with high contrast instead of the details of your subject. For example, helmet details are going to be too small for the AF sensor to resolve and it might just catch the curb in the background instead.

I wish I could blame my panning issues on the autofocus.  I am afraid it was just poor panning technique.  I think I got a little better at it as the day went on. 

You have posted some great shots and your second photo with the reflection of the car in the puddle is fantastic.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: canon1dxman on November 18, 2013, 03:44:03 PM
Times have changed in F1. I used to do a lot of motorsport work, including the RAC Rally as a press photographer (when it was a real rally!), Le Mans 24 Hours and loads of club events. This was all pre digital and using various film SLR's, Canon, Nikon and Pentax.

In the mid 80's, I managed to blag a competitor's ticket (from a support race) which gave me pit access right up until the start. Great opportunity to get all the cars in the pit lane etc and a memorable one of Prost and friends watching Concorde flying over. Track access too and I didn't really need anything more than 300mm then.

Can you imagine how difficult it is nowadays? Got Bernie's mobile no? Still not enough! I really wish I had kept going but i got harder and harder to comply with all the demands of F1 bureaucracy.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: scotty512 on November 18, 2013, 05:06:40 PM
i went to Silverstone last year with my 5Dmk3 and 70-200 2.8 and was pretty close to the track so much so that I didnt have to always use the 2x convertor, however if you have that setup becareful on panning at 2.8 as i had a few shots that had the front in focus and the rear of the car OOF but overall for my first attempt I was happy with my results

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjAvEqS9 (http://flic.kr/s/aHsjAvEqS9)

my best advice would be to go and stand near a road and take shots of passing cars to practise panning and what type of shots you want thehn you can perfect the technique rather than using the precious time at the F1 track for testing

hope that helps and enjoy your day!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 18, 2013, 05:09:05 PM
...
I wish I could blame my panning issues on the autofocus.  I am afraid it was just poor panning technique.  I think I got a little better at it as the day went on. 

You have posted some great shots and your second photo with the reflection of the car in the puddle is fantastic.

It is true that panning is not that easy but you are right that you pick up the pace along a day of shooting. Nevertheless, I find it hard to strike a good balance between a shutter speed low enough to blur the background and one high enough to still end up with some keepers. I shot a lot around 1/250s but that is too fast and only provides the strict minimum in terms of bg blur. I definitely am not one of those bored by not having anything left to learn...

Thanks for the good comments about my pics.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: ajfotofilmagem on November 18, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
I went to the practice and qualifying sessions of this weekend’s F1 race in Austin at the Circuit of the Americas (COTA).  Representative photos can be found at http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/2013_austin_f1 (http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/2013_austin_f1)

The COTA web site indicated they had no restrictions on the size of detachable lenses.  So on Friday’s practice day I decided to bring my old manual focus Canon FD 800mm with Ed Mika’s adapter on my 5Diii.  I thought that trying to capture these high-speed cars with an 800mm on a monopod with no autofocus or image stabilization would be an exercise in futility, but I got some great shots.  Keeper rate was far south of 50%, but I am no pro and don’t have to get the shot.  It also helps that I live in Austin, so this is not a once in a lifetime opportunity that I don’t want to blow.

I also brought a friend’s 400mm 5.6 which I have used on the COTA track before for the motorcycle GP and it would be a great option.  I didn’t use it too much as I wanted to experiment with the 800mm.  The 400mm is obviously a more portable option than the 2 foot long and heavy 800mm.  However, next year I probably will just bring the 800 to practice day as it was just a lot of fun trying to manually focus and get the shot.  Pre-focusing on a spot worked the most reliably, but it was fun to try to also attempt to focus on the cars in random areas.

On Saturday, qualifying day, I decided to recover from my hernia from carrying around the 800 on Friday, and just brought my 5Diii and a 24-105.  I was sitting on the 23rd row at the straight following turn 15 so my line of sight to the cars was just above the top of the fence.  I tried my hand at 125/sec exposure pans to get motion blur and initially got a very low keeper rate.  I got better when I tried to focus in on one spot on the car and keep it in my center focus spot as the car flew by.  Needless to say, the photos on my Pbase account using the 24-105 are heavily cropped.

The bottom line for me was to have good quality lenses, even if they may lack such things as autofocus and image stabilization, be prepared to take a lot of photos to up your chances of keepers and, if you are going to have to do a lot of cropping, the more resolution your camera has the better.   

Congratulations for the photos. From time to time, it is good to try something different and "unattainable" with limited equipment. Modern lenses focusing Super fast can leave accommodated photographers shoot many good pictures, and stop doing that photo "impossible" with old equipment. This reminds us that the most important is the photographer.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: abirkill on November 19, 2013, 04:49:28 AM
Some fantastic shots here!

I haven't been fortunate enough to be able to photograph F1 cars for a long time.  Last time was in 2008 at Silverstone, where I got these (amongst others):

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3124/2608375558_62008714c0_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/abirkill/2608375558/)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3213/2607532645_4687fe2540_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/abirkill/2607532645/)

Back then I was shooting with a Canon 350D/Rebel XT and 70-300mm IS.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 19, 2013, 10:06:53 AM
Here's some advice for you that you won't appreciate until after the event: leave your kit at home and enjoy the race. Leave the photography to the pro's.

That is probably one of the best advice the internet has ever hosted! After all, why would anybody want to do something that he likes just for the fun of it while pros can do it much better and are paid for it. And that is also a reminder that pros are born pros and never gained from experience.

Also forget about family pictures, portraits of your kids, travel photography and all. I mean, enjoy the moment instead...

And it is so all encompassing if you think about it. Do not cook since professional cooks are better and you certainly won't enjoy a home cooked meal, be driven to work, leave your child to the daycare and most of all, GET BACK TO WORK cause that is what you do professionally don't you.

I just hope there ain't such a thing as a professional moment-life enjoyer otherwise we are screwed. ;)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: celltech on November 19, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
Just finished processing my COTA F1 pics from the weekend.  We went all 3 days scoping the place out.  Our plan was to camp out at turn 11 thinking a lot of cars would overcook their brakes/tires and get some good action in the turn.  We saw some doing it in practice, but on game day nobody slid off!

At the start of the race I was at the hill edge sharing space with a lot of big lenses.  Everything I shot was with a 5D3 and a rented 400 f/5.6  Turned out to be a great combo and I can highly recommend it.  So I took a few frames and then went to join the family on the hill.  Bad idea...  The heat and lack of breeze down there, combined with the crowd just made it...boring.  So me and the woman ended up packing our stuff and walking around to turns 9 and 10.  The race is truly different at every turn and if I go back next year I will just walk as many of the corners as I can in the 2 hours.

The worst part of the weekend was the heat and harsh sun.  There were a lot of sick looking euros out there about to pass out.  Good thing I am a native Texan.  I am not a pro but spent some time trying to get rid of the washed out look of the raw photos.

Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 19, 2013, 11:28:54 AM
One other thing that I noticed when processing my photos was that at certain angles the sun caused a lot of glare and reflections from some of the helmets, face shields and other reflective surfaces of the cars.  I had polarizer on my 800, but forgot it for my 24-105.  I think one of the things people may want to add to their check list is to bring a polarizing filter.  I don't remember if this has been mentioned yet on this thread, but it is something you may want to consider having in your bag for one of these events.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 19, 2013, 11:58:23 AM
One thing that is both a plus and a minus (you may know this already):  2014 sees all new smaller V6 engines and chassis, with state of the art turbo charging that is all combined with electric motor assist/batteries (I don't like this part)...but it's possible the cars might be a bit quieter than the current V8's.  Obviously they won't be as quiet as normal "turbo" cars can be.

I just got back from the USGP, and I feel very fortunate that I got to hear the 2.4L naturally aspirated V-8s screaming away at 18,000 rpm one last time. While I appreciate the technology involved with next's year's turbo V-6s, the sound is much more subdued. Mercedes recently posted a sound clip of the 2014 V-6 running a simulated lap at Monza on the dyno:

2014: A lap with the new Mercedes-Benz V6! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebpkJXJ7CFo#ws)

Still a nice sound, but not nearly as visceral at the naturally aspirated V-8s.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 19, 2013, 12:26:38 PM
Some great advice in this thread, as well as some great shots taken by people modestly labeling themselves as amateurs :)

I took my 5D3, 24-105, and 70-300L to this year's USGP, but honestly I didn't take many images at all. Since this was the first F1 race I attending, I wanted to enjoy the event instead watching bits and pieces of the race through a viewfinder.

A few observations from COTA:

- I scoped out all the general admissions area, and you're either too far away from the track and/or shooting through the fence to get a good shot.
- At the sections of the track (Turns 7, 8, 11) that offers good vantage point that aren't obstructed by the fence, a 300mm lens isn't nearly long enough.
- If the fence if brightly lit, and you're several hundreds of feet away from it, the AF will focus on the fence no matter what. That was the situation from the general admissions area, half way up the hill in Turn 1, which is where I watched the race from. A good work around was opening up the aperture, manually focusing near the apex of the turn, and shooting the cars as they passed through that point. An even better work around is to just put the camera down and enjoy the race :) I saw lots of spectators so fixated on shooting that they had no idea what was going on during the race.
- As others suggested, do most of the shooting during practice and qualifying. Slaving away through a viewfinder is no way to enjoy the spectacle of F1 racing.

As an American, a Texan, and an Austinite, it's great to hear all the positive comments from the drivers regarding COTA, but I still think Spa is the best track on earth. Does anyone have pics from Spa they want to share :)? If I can only attend one other F1 race, I want to go to Spa!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 19, 2013, 02:41:02 PM
Some great advice in this thread, as well as some great shots taken by people modestly labeling themselves as amateurs :)

I took my 5D3, 24-105, and 70-300L to this year's USGP, but honestly I didn't take many images at all. Since this was the first F1 race I attending, I wanted to enjoy the event instead watching bits and pieces of the race through a viewfinder.

A few observations from COTA:

- I scoped out all the general admissions area, and you're either too far away from the track and/or shooting through the fence to get a good shot.
- At the sections of the track (Turns 7, 8, 11) that offers good vantage point that aren't obstructed by the fence, a 300mm lens isn't nearly long enough.
- If the fence if brightly lit, and you're several hundreds of feet away from it, the AF will focus on the fence no matter what. That was the situation from the general admissions area, half way up the hill in Turn 1, which is where I watched the race from. A good work around was opening up the aperture, manually focusing near the apex of the turn, and shooting the cars as they passed through that point. An even better work around is to just put the camera down and enjoy the race :) I saw lots of spectators so fixated on shooting that they had no idea what was going on during the race.
- As others suggested, do most of the shooting during practice and qualifying. Slaving away through a viewfinder is no way to enjoy the spectacle of F1 racing.

As an American, a Texan, and an Austinite, it's great to hear all the positive comments from the drivers regarding COTA, but I still think Spa is the best track on earth. Does anyone have pics from Spa they want to share :)? If I can only attend one other F1 race, I want to go to Spa!
I'm sorry, I don't have any pictures from Spa, but I agree with you it's the finest track of them all. It's the mother of all race tracks. Only really good drivers win here, remember Hakkinen's overtake on Schumi. He flew over the left cerb at Eau Rouge to set up the greatest overtake in F1 history.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 19, 2013, 03:09:38 PM
I'm sorry, I don't have any pictures from Spa, but I agree with you it's the finest track of them all. It's the mother of all race tracks. Only really good drivers win here, remember Hakkinen's overtake on Schumi. He flew over the left cerb at Eau Rouge to set up the greatest overtake in F1 history.

How can any F1 fan forget that pass? I still get goosebumps watching it on YouTube. Not only is Spa the greatest track on earth, Eau Rouge is the greatest complex of corners on earth. I must go there someday :)!

The esses on the 130R at Suzuka are pretty cool, but Eau Rouge tops them all.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 19, 2013, 03:43:15 PM
I'm sorry, I don't have any pictures from Spa, but I agree with you it's the finest track of them all. It's the mother of all race tracks. Only really good drivers win here, remember Hakkinen's overtake on Schumi. He flew over the left cerb at Eau Rouge to set up the greatest overtake in F1 history.

How can any F1 fan forget that pass? I still get goosebumps watching it on YouTube. Not only is Spa the greatest track on earth, Eau Rouge is the greatest complex of corners on earth. I must go there someday :)!

The esses on the 130R at Suzuka are pretty cool, but Eau Rouge tops them all.
Suzuka is also up there, I'm glad you mentioned it. I'm likely going to Netherlands by car next summer and if the family allows, possibly pop over to Belgium to visit Spa. I'd like to walk up there to see it with my own eyes. Another great driver, Jacques Villeneuve was one of the few that kept the throttle down through that left corner at the exit in those days.

I've been go Austin several times through my job, but that was before they built the track. I've heard good things about it, but the new tracks will have a difficult time trying to measure up to the classics.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 19, 2013, 06:48:16 PM
Meh, you should have heard them when they did around 20,000rpm.

You had to rub it in, didn't you :(

The naturally aspirated V-12s and V-10s certainly had a invigorating, tenor shrill to them.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 19, 2013, 07:25:41 PM
I've been go Austin several times through my job, but that was before they built the track. I've heard good things about it, but the new tracks will have a difficult time trying to measure up to the classics.

COTA looks much more interesting in person than it does on TV, that's for sure. The elevation change is much more noticeable when you're there:

Turn 1

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/F1/_L3C6747_zps54be8f57.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/F1/_L3C6755_zps5193c5ac.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/F1/_L3C6758_zps1028514c.jpg)

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/F1/_L3C6739_zps1e60a6db.jpg)

Turn 2

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/F1/_L3C6752_zpsbc32a259.jpg)

Turns 10 and 11

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/F1/_L3C5913_zpscbec92ad.jpg)

Turns 7 and 8

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/BBNotch/F1/_L3C6101_zps29df0a41.jpg)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 19, 2013, 07:59:58 PM
Here's some advice for you that you won't appreciate until after the event: leave your kit at home and enjoy the race. Leave the photography to the pro's.

That is probably one of the best advice the internet has ever hosted! After all, why would anybody want to do something that he likes just for the fun of it while pros can do it much better and are paid for it. And that is also a reminder that pros are born pros and never gained from experience.

Obviously you have never been to a F1 race.

Obviously, you did not read my previous posts...

I may have been a bit rude with my reply to your post, but if you go back to the beginning of the thread, you will see that I also recommended the OP to make sure he would not focus so much on photography that he would not actually "see" the race. I would add that amateur photographer like me should make sure they don't get in the way of the other members of the public.

Nonetheless, I am sure that as demonstrated by other posters and by my own experience, enjoying both the race and the race photography while getting a few decent shots is possible.

For the record, I have been to three Montreal F1 grand prix and posted a few pics from this year that I totally enjoyed taking. Actually I enjoyed taking the 50GB of pictures I took over three days, even if only a handfull are actually just good enough.

Best regards.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 19, 2013, 09:48:48 PM
...
 Actually I enjoyed taking the 50GB of pictures I took over three days, even if only a handfull are actually just good enough.

Exactly.

Having been there, done that, it is better to just go and watch the cars to around.

As I see there is a world between what we feel is worthwhile or enjoyable in photography and as you have made a strong demonstration of your constructive approach, I suggest we agree to disagree.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: celltech on November 19, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
Guess I can throw in my own $0.02 worth...  I am an engineer by trade and I still don't get why soooo many people around the world LOVE F1.  I appreciate and love the tech, but I have to think that 99% of the world does not.

Once Vettel took pole position it might as well have been over.  He easily led the race and even set fast lap right at the end, as if to say he could have won it by more.  I personally found the practice laps more exciting than the actual race.

For me, taking pictures at multiple corners actually helped make the race more interesting.  Sitting at one spot waiting for the long train of cars just got old.  They all did the same thing and drove by.  I think I got a better sense of the driving by watching how they setup for the different corners.

In the end the weekend itself was fun.  Austin is a GREAT town to hang out in and check out the scene.  The track is immense and offers a lot of visual activities.  But the actual race?  Maybe I just don't get it...

But I don't feel like I lost anything by taking pictures...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 19, 2013, 11:27:11 PM
Guess I can throw in my own $0.02 worth...  I am an engineer by trade and I still don't get why soooo many people around the world LOVE F1.  I appreciate and love the tech, but I have to think that 99% of the world does not.


I'll throw out some theories, most of which are probably wrong :) Traction control, stability control, launch control, active suspension dampers, carbon brakes, anti-block brakes, sequential transmissions, electronic differentials, and drive-by-wire throttle (just to name a few) were all pioneered in Formula One 10 or more years before they ever saw the light of day in a passenger car. When you see an F1 car zoom by, you're literally looking at the future. Surely any engineer can appreciate that :)

For the 99% percent of the world you mention (probably more like 90% of the world, since F1's 600 million viewership represents almost 10% of the world population), I think a lot of it has to do with mystique. Here in America, cars are commodities more than they are luxuries. Plus, the average Joe can watch or participate in all kinds of motorsports ranging from drag racing to road racing to autocross to short-track racing to rallying to drifting to karting. If you live in a country where most people take public transportation, and very few people have the luxury of watching or participating in motor racing, watching F1 on TV is as good as it gets. 

Quote
Once Vettel took pole position it might as well have been over.  He easily led the race and even set fast lap right at the end, as if to say he could have won it by more.

Very true. Any time one team or one driver dominates like Red Bull and Vettel have this season, the racing can become very boring. That said, many seasons are dog fights right down to the very last race, and these are the memories F1 fans live for, whether it's Schumacher barely edging out Hakkinen for the championship in 2000 at Indy, or a 24-year-old Fernando Alonso beating the 7-time World Champion in Schumacher at the second to last race of the season in 2006. Going into the last race of 2007, no one expected Raikkonen to win the championship, but he did. The same goes for Vettel in 2010.   

Quote
Sitting at one spot waiting for the long train of cars just got old.  They all did the same thing and drove by.  I think I got a better sense of the driving by watching how they setup for the different corners.

In the end the weekend itself was fun.  Austin is a GREAT town to hang out in and check out the scene.  The track is immense and offers a lot of visual activities.  But the actual race?  Maybe I just don't get it...

For an F1 nut, there's plenty to enjoy even in a not-so-interesting race in which Vettel dominated. As an amateur racer, I marveled at how late the cars hit the brakes approaching Turn 1. They're going nearly 200 mph at the end of the straight, and they don't hit the brakes until after the 100 meter marker. Incredible. I then marvel at the physical fitness required to endure 5 g's under braking for 1.5 hours without passing out. I race a 125cc shifter kart, which pulls 2.5 - 3 g's, and my neck muscles and ribs are sore after 30 minutes!

Despite the fact that Turn 1 has a blind entry, the drivers hit the apex of the corner perfectly- down to an inch or two - lap after lap. As an amateur who'd be lucky to hit the apex 1 out of 20 laps, I was awestruck to see that caliber of driving skill and precision.

I also witnessesed firsthand one of the reasons why the Red Bulls are so much faster than the rest of the field. I was very surprised how much earlier the Red Bulls were able to hit the gas and put the power down coming out of Turn 1 compared to every other car in the field. In fact, Webber seemed to get back on throttle even earlier than Vettel. Multiply that advantage over a dozen-plus corners, and it really adds up at the end of a lap and at the end of a race.

I'm hoping that the major rules changes in 2014 will help end the Red Bull domination, and make for some more interesting racing. The last big rules change was in 2009, and all that happened that season was an unknown, under-funded team (Brawn GP), with an underachieving driver (Jenson Button) went on to topple the Ferrari and McLaren empires. Great stuff :) 

Plus, there's the fact that you're watching the world's greatest drivers racing on the world's greatest tracks in the world's fastest, most technologically advanced cars.

That's why I love F1 ;D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 20, 2013, 01:18:12 AM
Guess I can throw in my own $0.02 worth...  I am an engineer by trade and I still don't get why soooo many people around the world LOVE F1.  I appreciate and love the tech, but I have to think that 99% of the world does not.


I'll throw out some theories, most of which are probably wrong :) Traction control, stability control, launch control, active suspension dampers, carbon brakes, anti-block brakes, sequential transmissions, electronic differentials, and drive-by-wire throttle (just to name a few) were all pioneered in Formula One 10 or more years before they ever saw the light of day in a passenger car. When you see an F1 car zoom by, you're literally looking at the future. Surely any engineer can appreciate that :)

For the 99% percent of the world you mention (probably more like 90% of the world, since F1's 600 million viewership represents almost 10% of the world population), I think a lot of it has to do with mystique. Here in America, cars are commodities more than they are luxuries. Plus, the average Joe can watch or participate in all kinds of motorsports ranging from drag racing to road racing to autocross to short-track racing to rallying to drifting to karting. If you live in a country where most people take public transportation, and very few people have the luxury of watching or participating in motor racing, watching F1 on TV is as good as it gets. 

Quote
Once Vettel took pole position it might as well have been over.  He easily led the race and even set fast lap right at the end, as if to say he could have won it by more.

Very true. Any time one team or one driver dominates like Red Bull and Vettel have this season, the racing can become very boring. That said, many seasons are dog fights right down to the very last race, and these are the memories F1 fans live for, whether it's Schumacher barely edging out Hakkinen for the championship in 2000 at Indy, or a 24-year-old Fernando Alonso beating the 7-time World Champion in Schumacher at the second to last race of the season in 2006. Going into the last race of 2007, no one expected Raikkonen to win the championship, but he did. The same goes for Vettel in 2010.   

Quote
Sitting at one spot waiting for the long train of cars just got old.  They all did the same thing and drove by.  I think I got a better sense of the driving by watching how they setup for the different corners.

In the end the weekend itself was fun.  Austin is a GREAT town to hang out in and check out the scene.  The track is immense and offers a lot of visual activities.  But the actual race?  Maybe I just don't get it...

For an F1 nut, there's plenty to enjoy even in a not-so-interesting race in which Vettel dominated. As an amateur racer, I marveled at how late the cars hit the brakes approaching Turn 1. They're going nearly 200 mph at the end of the straight, and they don't hit the brakes until after the 100 meter marker. Incredible. I then marvel at the physical fitness required to endure 5 g's under braking for 1.5 hours without passing out. I race a 125cc shifter kart, which pulls 2.5 - 3 g's, and my neck muscles and ribs are sore after 30 minutes!

Despite the fact that Turn 1 has a blind entry, the drivers hit the apex of the corner perfectly- down to an inch or two - lap after lap. As an amateur who'd be lucky to hit the apex 1 out of 20 laps, I was awestruck to see that caliber of driving skill and precision.

I also witnessesed firsthand one of the reasons why the Red Bulls are so much faster than the rest of the field. I was very surprised how much earlier the Red Bulls were able to hit the gas and put the power down coming out of Turn 1 compared to every other car in the field. In fact, Webber seemed to get back on throttle even earlier than Vettel. Multiply that advantage over a dozen-plus corners, and it really adds up at the end of a lap and at the end of a race.

I'm hoping that the major rules changes in 2014 will help end the Red Bull domination, and make for some more interesting racing. The last big rules change was in 2009, and all that happened that season was an unknown, under-funded team (Brawn GP), with an underachieving driver (Jenson Button) went on to topple the Ferrari and McLaren empires. Great stuff :) 

Plus, there's the fact that you're watching the world's greatest drivers racing on the world's greatest tracks in the world's fastest, most technologically advanced cars.

That's why I love F1 ;D
Well sadi. Did you mention the sound also?
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on November 20, 2013, 03:06:33 AM
Guess I can throw in my own $0.02 worth...  I am an engineer by trade and I still don't get why soooo many people around the world LOVE F1.  I appreciate and love the tech, but I have to think that 99% of the world does not.


When you see an F1 car zoom by, you're literally looking at the future. Surely any engineer can appreciate that :)

watching F1 on TV is as good as it gets. 

Quote
Once Vettel took pole position it might as well have been over.  He easily led the race and even set fast lap right at the end, as if to say he could have won it by more.

All cars get faster as they use more fuel, thats a fact of life, theres nothing really special about this.  
Quote
Sitting at one spot waiting for the long train of cars just got old.  They all did the same thing and drove by.  I think I got a better sense of the driving by watching how they setup for the different corners.
In the end the weekend itself was fun.  Austin is a GREAT town to hang out in and check out the scene.  The track is immense and offers a lot of visual activities.  But the actual race?  Maybe I just don't get it...

For an F1 nut, there's plenty to enjoy even in a not-so-interesting race in which Vettel dominated. As an amateur racer, I marveled at how late the cars hit the brakes approaching Turn 1. They're going nearly 200 mph at the end of the straight, and they don't hit the brakes until after the 100 meter marker. Incredible. I then marvel at the physical fitness required to endure 5 g's under braking for 1.5 hours without passing out. I race a 125cc shifter kart, which pulls 2.5 - 3 g's, and my neck muscles and ribs are sore after 30 minutes!  
Despite the fact that Turn 1 has a blind entry, the drivers hit the apex of the corner perfectly- down to an inch or two - lap after lap. As an amateur who'd be lucky to hit the apex 1 out of 20 laps, I was awestruck to see that caliber of driving skill and precision.  
I'm hoping that the major rules changes in 2014 will help end the Red Bull domination, and make for some more interesting racing. The last big rules change was in 2009, and all that happened that season was an unknown, under-funded team (Brawn GP), with an underachieving driver (Jenson Button) went on to topple the Ferrari and McLaren empires. Great stuff :) 

Plus, there's the fact that you're watching the world's greatest drivers racing on the world's greatest tracks in the world's fastest, most technologically advanced cars.

That's why I love F1 ;D
Sir, I applaud you!!

This is a fantastic commentary V8Beast, I’m also an F1 fanatic, how can anyone say that the Austin race was boring!! Did anyone actually WATCH the race??  The Bottas/Guttierrez overtake manoeuvre on the outside exit at turn 2????  It was (in my opinion) one of thee defining passes of the season; it was truly edge of the seat stuff!  There was so many other small battles going on that it made for great entertainment, Maldonado sending Sutil in to the wall in lap 2, Button taking 10th with 4 laps to go & Perez holding 7th (yeah I’m a McLaren fanatic) and Alonso taking 5th from his bad start in 7th while not 100% match fit!!  Webber “hunting” Grosjean down all the way to the chequered flag! I’m exhausted just re-living it from memory!!

Let’s not forget that these guys are true athletes, they reckon that a 2 hour race is the equivalent of completing a full 26 mile marathon, and these guys do it 20 times a year.....plus 3 practice sessions and 1 qualifying session per race, so that’s 20 races, 60 practice sessions and potentially 60 qualifying sessions per 8 month season!!!!

I do, however; appreciate what Celltech said with regards to how much people actually know about the techy stuff (perhaps the figures quoted may not be perfectly accurate ), as I have sat in the stands for years and people have no clue what’s usually going on, I base this on the fact that I have always been surrounded by people asking basic questions and who cannot identify any of the drivers or even the teams, you’d be surprised how many “Tifosi” jump up waving their gigantic Ferrari flags when a Marussia goes whizzing by, it makes me chuckle every time.  :P

The statistics (for me) are what it’s all about, where else in sport does it cost $125 million to kit out 1 single garage with custom made spanners, tools and the like....now remember that each team has 2 cars!!!
I also love it at the end of the season when the media go into overdrive with rumours and stories of bad blood and un-sportsman like attitudes from the drivers/managers, the stories of corruption and personnel swapping sides to the enemy, I love it all.

Let’s hope that your right and the Red Bull domination does not continue, as it appears to send the less fanatical in to hibernation!

Additionally I’d like to add to my earlier comment in this thread by giving some further useful strategies, remember to take your own ear defenders, Monaco charged my wife 15 Euros as she left them in the hotel on the first day, they generally cost $1 in Ace hardware!  Buy the full three day pass, this way you can attend the pitlane walk on Fridays, and scout various locations and take as many photos as you wish without upsetting the fair weather fans view’s, they can get quite pissy!! This way you’ll have loads of images, considerably less stress from shouting at twats and you can relax during the race and concentrate on what’s going on.....plus you can grab some snaps if major drama happens in your location (as per my earlier photo of Maldonado in the wall at Tabac from Monaco this year), above all you’ll enjoy the whole experience more following these simple tips.

Overall, you’re either a fair weather fan, or an obsessive, there’s very little in between! I’ll let you guess which one I am  :o
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Roo on November 20, 2013, 07:47:22 AM
...
 Actually I enjoyed taking the 50GB of pictures I took over three days, even if only a handfull are actually just good enough.

Exactly.

Having been there, done that, it is better to just go and watch the cars to around.

As I see there is a world between what we feel is worthwhile or enjoyable in photography and as you have made a strong demonstration of your constructive approach, I suggest we agree to disagree.

I'm with you on this one.  Those comments are less than constructive.  I've been to every F1 event in Melbourne since the first in 1996 and a few in Adelaide before that.  I've done grandstands and general admission, gone with and without a camera but these days I always prefer to take my own shots.     

If we left it to the pros we would learn nothing ourselves.  There's another reason we shouldn't always leave it to the pros - while they generally have access to the best locations, they don't shoot from our vantage points so we get a different perspective.

I shoot most of my track shots between Thursday and Saturday (Melbourne is a 4 day event) when there are less people around.  Sundays are better for crowd shots as quite a few go all out and dress up for the occasion. I only take the occasional shot during the race itself.

The OP may wish to check out the Sepang circuit seat viewer to assist with his advance scouting for shooting locations.  http://www.sepangcircuit.com.my/story/sepang-circuits-seat-viewer (http://www.sepangcircuit.com.my/story/sepang-circuits-seat-viewer)

One other thing for the OP that I don't think has been suggested yet - get an over ear headset radio and tune into the track coverage if they have it.

A pit lane walk is also a must early in the season as you should be able to get good shots of the different front wing elements the teams are evaluating.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 20, 2013, 11:00:12 AM
Good calls V8Beast and TheJock, and I would need to add that quite a bit of nationalist rivalry goes on in the public minds, at least those minds who come from drivers and/or team home-places!

However, if there is nothing in between fairweather fans and obsessive fans, well I wonder where I stand. Although I deeply enjoy F1 both from a technical (all aspects were they cars, strategy or drivers) and a social standpoint, I find I struggle in keeping pace with the season... I often end up catching up on race recaps instead of being able to see the whole thing.



...
As I see there is a world between what we feel is worthwhile or enjoyable in photography and as you have made a strong demonstration of your constructive approach, I suggest we agree to disagree.

I'm with you on this one.  Those comments are less than constructive.  I've been to every F1 event in Melbourne since the first in 1996 and a few in Adelaide before that.  I've done grandstands and general admission, gone with and without a camera but these days I always prefer to take my own shots.     

If we left it to the pros we would learn nothing ourselves.  There's another reason we shouldn't always leave it to the pros - while they generally have access to the best locations, they don't shoot from our vantage points so we get a different perspective.

I shoot most of my track shots between Thursday and Saturday (Melbourne is a 4 day event) when there are less people around.  Sundays are better for crowd shots as quite a few go all out and dress up for the occasion. I only take the occasional shot during the race itself.

The OP may wish to check out the Sepang circuit seat viewer to assist with his advance scouting for shooting locations.  http://www.sepangcircuit.com.my/story/sepang-circuits-seat-viewer (http://www.sepangcircuit.com.my/story/sepang-circuits-seat-viewer)

One other thing for the OP that I don't think has been suggested yet - get an over ear headset radio and tune into the track coverage if they have it.

A pit lane walk is also a must early in the season as you should be able to get good shots of the different front wing elements the teams are evaluating.

Thanks and very good advices to the OP. Those noise-cancelling over ear headset radios are great. I was loaned a pair for a few minutes and they make following the race much easier. As for the seat-viewer, wow that is a nice tool also! Never saw one of those.

Here in Montreal, the pits are only open to the public on Thursday, but I have never been able to free myself and go there. That is a shame since there surely are some fun to have and great pics opportunity.

 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 20, 2013, 11:10:11 AM
I do, however; appreciate what Celltech said with regards to how much people actually know about the techy stuff (perhaps the figures quoted may not be perfectly accurate ), as I have sat in the stands for years and people have no clue what’s usually going on, I base this on the fact that I have always been surrounded by people asking basic questions and who cannot identify any of the drivers or even the teams, you’d be surprised how many “Tifosi” jump up waving their gigantic Ferrari flags when a Marussia goes whizzing by, it makes me chuckle every time.  :P

That's both funny and sad at the same time! Granted my experience attending races is very limited, but I was very surprised how knowledgeable the fans were at this year's USGP. Probably not so much regarding the technical aspect of the sport, but factoids like which driver won which race, how the constructor's points are tallied, who carries the broadcasting rights for F1 races in the U.K., which driver said what in interviews leading up to the race, etc. Perhaps the less knowledgeable fans just kept their mouths shut ;D?

It's also possible that my standards are quite low. If you want to experience low-functioning fans, all you have to do is talk to a NASCAR or a drag racing fan.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on November 21, 2013, 03:10:51 AM
It's also possible that my standards are quite low. If you want to experience low-functioning fans, all you have to do is talk to a NASCAR or a drag racing fan.
I would love to get my mitts on a NASCAR race!!!, we have drag racing here in Abu Dhabi too, I will be attending this year as a spectator (no JCB for that event), but one of the most fun events I have had over here was the Aussie V8 Supercars last year, they were one of the support races at the F1, what a scream those guys are!!!  Their main recovery man was a typical Aussie, the comment of the weekend from him was (rather rude, so my apologies in advance) as he described the difference between being able to salvage a car that could potentially continue (so to be gentle) compared to pulling a wrecked car out the Armco wall, he said “F**K it, it’s F**ked”, made me laugh  ;D

I would love nothing more than to visit places like the US and Australia to witness their races first hand, I have an invite to go and marshal in Melbourne (need to do the CAMS registration) but I’m starting a new job in a month, so it’ll probably not happen next year  :-\ 
My next race is the 12 hours at Yas Marina in December, I think that a guy from my home town in Scotland is driving for an American Le Mans GT1 team (Starworks Motorsport) and may be participating, so that’ll be interesting.
Anyhoo, I’m conscious that I’m adding no value to the OP’er, but I’m delighted to chat away on this subject, cheers.  :-X
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 21, 2013, 10:22:40 PM
I went to the practice and qualifying sessions of this weekend’s F1 race in Austin at the Circuit of the Americas (COTA).  Representative photos can be found at http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/2013_austin_f1 (http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/2013_austin_f1)

The COTA web site indicated they had no restrictions on the size of detachable lenses.  So on Friday’s practice day I decided to bring my old manual focus Canon FD 800mm with Ed Mika’s adapter on my 5Diii.  I thought that trying to capture these high-speed cars with an 800mm on a monopod with no autofocus or image stabilization would be an exercise in futility, but I got some great shots.  Keeper rate was far south of 50%, but I am no pro and don’t have to get the shot.  It also helps that I live in Austin, so this is not a once in a lifetime opportunity that I don’t want to blow.

I also brought a friend’s 400mm 5.6 which I have used on the COTA track before for the motorcycle GP and it would be a great option.  I didn’t use it too much as I wanted to experiment with the 800mm.  The 400mm is obviously a more portable option than the 2 foot long and heavy 800mm.  However, next year I probably will just bring the 800 to practice day as it was just a lot of fun trying to manually focus and get the shot.  Pre-focusing on a spot worked the most reliably, but it was fun to try to also attempt to focus on the cars in random areas.

On Saturday, qualifying day, I decided to recover from my hernia from carrying around the 800 on Friday, and just brought my 5Diii and a 24-105.  I was sitting on the 23rd row at the straight following turn 15 so my line of sight to the cars was just above the top of the fence.  I tried my hand at 125/sec exposure pans to get motion blur and initially got a very low keeper rate.  I got better when I tried to focus in on one spot on the car and keep it in my center focus spot as the car flew by.  Needless to say, the photos on my Pbase account using the 24-105 are heavily cropped.

The bottom line for me was to have good quality lenses, even if they may lack such things as autofocus and image stabilization, be prepared to take a lot of photos to up your chances of keepers and, if you are going to have to do a lot of cropping, the more resolution your camera has the better.   

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421811/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421785/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421800/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421858/original.jpg)

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421857/original.jpg)

Nice job on those!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 21, 2013, 10:31:57 PM
One thing that is both a plus and a minus (you may know this already):  2014 sees all new smaller V6 engines and chassis, with state of the art turbo charging that is all combined with electric motor assist/batteries (I don't like this part)...but it's possible the cars might be a bit quieter than the current V8's.  Obviously they won't be as quiet as normal "turbo" cars can be.

I just got back from the USGP, and I feel very fortunate that I got to hear the 2.4L naturally aspirated V-8s screaming away at 18,000 rpm one last time. While I appreciate the technology involved with next's year's turbo V-6s, the sound is much more subdued. Mercedes recently posted a sound clip of the 2014 V-6 running a simulated lap at Monza on the dyno:

2014: A lap with the new Mercedes-Benz V6! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebpkJXJ7CFo#ws)

Still a nice sound, but not nearly as visceral at the naturally aspirated V-8s.

Thanks for posting that.  What's really cool, is the sound of the "old" 3 liter V-10's that revved to 20,000 rpm.  Almost like if a Sith amplified the sound of a mosquito after it inhaled some helium and got sucked into a hypersonic wind tunnel !! 

I'm glad you got hear them.  Even though I haven't heard them in person, I've heard them a lot on my home theater.  All I can say is, I would always wear earplugs, even for the new turbo cars.  I might have liked to pull them out for a few seconds, but that would have been enough.  It's not that I don't love visceral machines, I just want to preserve my hearing as best I can.  I even wear earplugs when I ride my dirtbike and atv. 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 22, 2013, 11:27:10 AM
As far as F1 sound goes, I've always been in deep love with 12 cylinders on the overruns... In 2010, vintage F1 ran as a sideshow at the Montreal GP and I just enjoyed the sound of the cars from the late sixties and seventies sooooo much!!!

And trying to relate the posts from the OP... Here are a few photos taken with the XSI and 70-300 IS USM. I used AV mode at the time so movement was frozen. Now I use M mode to force a slower shutter.

Ohhh those 312Bs...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 22, 2013, 01:06:45 PM
Nice job on those!

Thanks for the kind words.  I think I was as surprised as anyone when I was running the 800mm shots through lightroom that they came out as well as they did with this old manual focus FD lens.  I really need to thank Ed Mika for his FD adapter that brought this old 800 beast back to life.

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421783/original.jpg)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 22, 2013, 02:24:38 PM
Nice job on those!

Thanks for the kind words.  I think I was as surpised as anyone when I was running the 800mm shots through lightroom that they came out as well as they did with this old manual focus FD lens.  I really need to thank Ed Mika for his FD adapter that brought this old 800 beast back to life.

(http://www.pbase.com/lebthree/image/153421783/original.jpg)

Now, if I was the OP, I would ditch the 70-200 idea and head straight to ebay for a FD mount super-tele and some of those adapters! Respect to those shooting motorsport in manual focus.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 26, 2013, 04:07:54 PM
Some great advice in this thread, as well as some great shots taken by people modestly labeling themselves as amateurs :)

I took my 5D3, 24-105, and 70-300L to this year's USGP, but honestly I didn't take many images at all. Since this was the first F1 race I attending, I wanted to enjoy the event instead watching bits and pieces of the race through a viewfinder.

A few observations from COTA:

- I scoped out all the general admissions area, and you're either too far away from the track and/or shooting through the fence to get a good shot.
- At the sections of the track (Turns 7, 8, 11) that offers good vantage point that aren't obstructed by the fence, a 300mm lens isn't nearly long enough.
- If the fence if brightly lit, and you're several hundreds of feet away from it, the AF will focus on the fence no matter what. That was the situation from the general admissions area, half way up the hill in Turn 1, which is where I watched the race from. A good work around was opening up the aperture, manually focusing near the apex of the turn, and shooting the cars as they passed through that point. An even better work around is to just put the camera down and enjoy the race :) I saw lots of spectators so fixated on shooting that they had no idea what was going on during the race.
- As others suggested, do most of the shooting during practice and qualifying. Slaving away through a viewfinder is no way to enjoy the spectacle of F1 racing.

As an American, a Texan, and an Austinite, it's great to hear all the positive comments from the drivers regarding COTA, but I still think Spa is the best track on earth. Does anyone have pics from Spa they want to share :)? If I can only attend one other F1 race, I want to go to Spa!
I'm sorry, I don't have any pictures from Spa, but I agree with you it's the finest track of them all. It's the mother of all race tracks. Only really good drivers win here, remember Hakkinen's overtake on Schumi. He flew over the left cerb at Eau Rouge to set up the greatest overtake in F1 history.

What year was that?
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 26, 2013, 04:31:57 PM
Guess I can throw in my own $0.02 worth...  I am an engineer by trade and I still don't get why soooo many people around the world LOVE F1.  I appreciate and love the tech, but I have to think that 99% of the world does not.

Once Vettel took pole position it might as well have been over.  He easily led the race and even set fast lap right at the end, as if to say he could have won it by more.  I personally found the practice laps more exciting than the actual race.

For me, taking pictures at multiple corners actually helped make the race more interesting.  Sitting at one spot waiting for the long train of cars just got old.  They all did the same thing and drove by.  I think I got a better sense of the driving by watching how they setup for the different corners.

In the end the weekend itself was fun.  Austin is a GREAT town to hang out in and check out the scene.  The track is immense and offers a lot of visual activities.  But the actual race?  Maybe I just don't get it...

But I don't feel like I lost anything by taking pictures...

You're probably right in a way, a good percentage of F1 fans in the world, are kind of like Nascar fans.  All they care about are the drivers, not the cars.

However, to wonder why so many people in the world love F1 is not hard to grasp at all.  It's because the spectacle is like nothing else.  It's also the rich history of the race...and because the drivers are generally from all over the world, and especially all over Europe, where most of the tracks are.  It's also because no other road racing car of any kind can come close to their speed on a road race track.  It's simply the physics and resources involved that spell this out.  For example, did you know it takes them 6 months to manufacture each brake disc?

You should have asked your fellow race attendees why they liked it so much, because apparently the crowd attendance was a record high on race day at over 100k (I assume beating last year's inaugural race). 

I am not a fan of Bernie Ecclestone, however, and I feel he runs F1 in a very arbitrary way.  His tenure can't last forever, though.  If he's had an overall positive impact on the series, I don't know of it.  Maybe he's helped the manufacturers limit their cost at times, by limiting the amount of time they have to develop...but I have to think the manufacturers, are also generally not pleased with all of F1 management, especially with Bernie.

I am not a fan of Nascar, at all, heritage or not.  The cars are ugly, cumbersome, low in technology...and I'm not sure what the goals of the series are, other than to simply make money.  They certainly are not striking new ground technology wise, or speed wise.  Innovation and Nascar are almost mutually exclusive.  Most of the drivers seem very dimwitted to me...and I'm from the South!  I guess that might be feigned at times, for the entertainment value of seeing the obligatory hick race driver interviewed in various media, I don't know.  I understand people enjoying going to the races, but frankly there's better racing to watch.  Anyone who knows anything about driving cars, especially a sports car that can change directions and speed quickly (and not always go left, or not always go straight...ovals and dragsters)...should be in love with F1, it seems to me.  Even the "IZOD" Indycars are a pale imitation, whether or not their series predates F1 (which it does).

Since you're an engineer, hopefully you can see where I'm coming from a bit.  Sportscar racing, and F1, are the purist types of motorsports.  Everything else is watered down, or distilled to something less entertaining...at least to me.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 27, 2013, 11:10:57 PM
I would love to get my mitts on a NASCAR race!!!, we have drag racing here in Abu Dhabi too, I will be attending this year as a spectator (no JCB for that event), but one of the most fun events I have had over here was the Aussie V8 Supercars last year, they were one of the support races at the F1, what a scream those guys are!!!  Their main recovery man was a typical Aussie, the comment of the weekend from him was (rather rude, so my apologies in advance) as he described the difference between being able to salvage a car that could potentially continue (so to be gentle) compared to pulling a wrecked car out the Armco wall, he said “F**K it, it’s F**ked”, made me laugh  ;D

Be careful what you wish for. Most people attending a NASCAR race are just looking for an excuse to get drunk in public on a Sunday morning. Drag racing fans are similar, but instead of waiting until 10 am to get drunk they're already drunk by 8 am  ;D

I'd love to soak of the car scene in the Middle East sometime. The sight of so many Ferraris, Lamboghinis, and Bugattis street racing is just nuts.

I also love me some V8 Supercars, and will make sure to attend the race in Austin next year. Ironically, the closest thing you can get to American Trans Am racing from the '60s is the Australian V8 Supercars series. Speaking of Australia, the Bathurst circuit is one of a true hidden gems of the racing world. What an epic track!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 27, 2013, 11:16:12 PM
What year was that?

2000 :)

M. Hakkinen vs M. Schumacher - Spa 2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak#)

I just watched Hakkinen manhandle his McLaren through Eau Rouge at least a dozen times in a row, so I guess I'm not that much brighter than the NASCAR fans I'm poking fun at ;D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 27, 2013, 11:23:21 PM
  I am not a fan of Bernie Ecclestone, however, and I feel he runs F1 in a very arbitrary way.  His tenure can't last forever, though. 

I don't think there's anyone that is any way associated with F1 that likes Bernie. I've tried to read up on the matter, but I just don't understand how one man was able to seize so much power in F1. He is good for a laugh from time to time, though. A reporter once asked him if he thinks having a female driver in F1 would help the sport's image, he replied something along the lines of:

"What I would really like to see happen is to find the right girl, perhaps a black girl with super looks, preferably Jewish or Muslim, who speaks Spanish."
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on November 28, 2013, 01:13:20 AM
I also love me some V8 Supercars, and will make sure to attend the race in Austin next year. Ironically, the closest thing you can get to American Trans Am racing from the '60s is the Australian V8 Supercars series. Speaking of Australia, the Bathurst circuit is one of a true hidden gems of the racing world. What an epic track!
There are a couple of Aussies on my recovery team and they have some amazing stories from back home.  They told me that a few years back the “powers that be” decided to limit the booze the fans can take in on race weekend, this was to stop the annual sporadic violence between Holden and Ford fans, however (notice how every good story has a however 8)); the fans got smarter and simply went the week before and buried cases of beer in the camping area to combat the restriction!!!
Funnily enough, I start work for the Australian Government in 3 weeks, we share one thing in common already!!! ;)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 28, 2013, 01:35:22 AM
  I am not a fan of Bernie Ecclestone, however, and I feel he runs F1 in a very arbitrary way.  His tenure can't last forever, though. 

I don't think there's anyone that is any way associated with F1 that likes Bernie. I've tried to read up on the matter, but I just don't understand how one man was able to seize so much power in F1. He is good for a laugh from time to time, though. A reporter once asked him if he thinks having a female driver in F1 would help the sport's image, he replied something along the lines of:

"What I would really like to see happen is to find the right girl, perhaps a black girl with super looks, preferably Jewish or Muslim, who speaks Spanish."

That's a riot!!  You also didn't mention his obvious attempt to mimic the look of Andy Warhol.  Very odd looking little man...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 28, 2013, 01:45:55 AM
What year was that?

2000 :)

M. Hakkinen vs M. Schumacher - Spa 2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak#)

I just watched Hakkinen manhandle his McLaren through Eau Rouge at least a dozen times in a row, so I guess I'm not that much brighter than the NASCAR fans I'm poking fun at ;D

Thanks very much, that was superb!  Makes all the races I've watched over the last 5 years look very very boring.  Spa is the first place I will go, preferably to the F1 race there...when I finally visit Europe.  Would also like to see the race in Budapest...besides the city.  Monte Carlo would be third, and Monza fourth on my list.

The cars look faster back then; I know they cost a lot more and had active stability control, besides more power and more displacement.  2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!  If this trend continues, then 10 or 15 years from now there will probably be no more F1, and probably no more motor racing of any kind.  Only sailboats and solar powered bicycles...People are stupid!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 28, 2013, 03:57:35 AM
What year was that?

2000 :)

M. Hakkinen vs M. Schumacher - Spa 2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1WuWu8kGak#)

I just watched Hakkinen manhandle his McLaren through Eau Rouge at least a dozen times in a row, so I guess I'm not that much brighter than the NASCAR fans I'm poking fun at ;D

Thanks very much, that was superb!  Makes all the races I've watched over the last 5 years look very very boring.  Spa is the first place I will go, preferably to the F1 race there...when I finally visit Europe.  Would also like to see the race in Budapest...besides the city.  Monte Carlo would be third, and Monza fourth on my list.

The cars look faster back then; I know they cost a lot more and had active stability control, besides more power and more displacement.  2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!  If this trend continues, then 10 or 15 years from now there will probably be no more F1, and probably no more motor racing of any kind.  Only sailboats and solar powered bicycles...People are stupid!
The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 28, 2013, 02:03:29 PM
2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!

I'm so excited about he 2014 season that I can hardly contain myself. IMHO, I think the massive technical regulation changes will mean that slower yet more reliable cars will prevail over faster yet more failure prone cars. If I'm not mistaken, the engine allotment per car will be limited to five for the entire season, and exceeding that limit will result in a 10-grid spot penalty.

Having played with turbo motors on an amateur level, I'm eager to see how the engineers will respond to such a massive technical challenge. The exhaust gas temperature on a turbocharged race engine can exceed 1,800 degrees F. That means the exhaust tubing will expand and contract quite a bit, which can lead to blown clamps, and cracks in the tubing itself, which will render a car useless. That flex can have the same detrimental effects on the induction side of the turbo system as well. Then there's the issue of managing engine knock under such high levels of boost, which will be particularly challenging at hotter races like Malaysia and Bahrain. Detonation in a turbocharged engine = rapid destruction!

It harkens back to the 2009 season  - the last time F1 saw significant technical changes - where the Red Bulls had great pace, but very poor reliability. McLaren looked hopeless for much of the season, as did Ferrari. Ultimately, Brawn GP had enough pace and reliability to win the championship. Will 2014 see a similar mix-up in results? I can't wait to see :)

Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 28, 2013, 02:07:30 PM
The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.

I really miss Mika. He retired too soon. Maybe 2014 will see another Fin (Raikonnen) sticking it to another multiple World Champion German (Vettel) :)?

It will also be very interesting to see how Alonso responds to having a teammate that can very well drive faster than him. He didn't handle that particularly well at McLaren!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on November 28, 2013, 02:36:22 PM
The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.

I really miss Mika. He retired too soon. Maybe 2014 will see another Fin (Raikonnen) sticking it to another multiple World Champion German (Vettel) :)?

It will also be very interesting to see how Alonso responds to having a teammate that can very well drive faster than him. He didn't handle that particularly well at McLaren!
I miss MIka also, very much. He is definitely in the all time top ten list. Courage, skill, intelligence, raw speed, a tactical mind, he had it all, a true racer. I would be very happy to see Kimi beat Seb next year, but I am afraid his back won't let him. Kimi is up there with Mika, Schumi, Alonso, Senna and a few others. One of the great anecdotes about Kimi is when he did his first tests for Sauber, the team saw his lap times and that he was very close to the regular drivers' times. They concluded he would soon be ready to take the next step, then he breaks in on the radio asking when he could start going fast. Jaw dropping moment for the guys and his place in the team was clear.

As for Alonso, I really like him and consider him to be one of the greatest. But like you say, he doesn't handle competition well. It was probably only Massa himself who actually thought he could match Alonso. But he's history now.

I look forward to next year, Newey will build a great car again for RBR but the turbo engines will make sure it's a completely new game.

Not much about photography here. I have a few taken with my old P&S from the Malaysian GP 2005, but not on the computer I'm using now. There's a decent one on JV there. I'll look for it and post it. I miss JV in the sport.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on November 28, 2013, 02:54:02 PM
2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!

I'm so excited about he 2014 season that I can hardly contain myself. IMHO, I think the massive technical regulation changes will mean that slower yet more reliable cars will prevail over faster yet more failure prone cars. If I'm not mistaken, the engine allotment per car will be limited to five for the entire season, and exceeding that limit will result in a 10-grid spot penalty.

Having played with turbo motors on an amateur level, I'm eager to see how the engineers will respond to such a massive technical challenge. The exhaust gas temperature on a turbocharged race engine can exceed 1,800 degrees F. That means the exhaust tubing will expand and contract quite a bit, which can lead to blown clamps, and cracks in the tubing itself, which will render a car useless. That flex can have the same detrimental effects on the induction side of the turbo system as well. Then there's the issue of managing engine knock under such high levels of boost, which will be particularly challenging at hotter races like Malaysia and Bahrain. Detonation in a turbocharged engine = rapid destruction!

It harkens back to the 2009 season  - the last time F1 saw significant technical changes - where the Red Bulls had great pace, but very poor reliability. McLaren looked hopeless for much of the season, as did Ferrari. Ultimately, Brawn GP had enough pace and reliability to win the championship. Will 2014 see a similar mix-up in results? I can't wait to see :)

It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power.  I've tried adding it to gasoline to boost octane, and it seems to work well.  You just need to allow for the fact that it burns hotter, yet slower than gasoline.  Mostly just used it in my 2 stroke atv and dirtbike...as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!  I better hurry up though, I'm not getting any younger, except mentally!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 28, 2013, 03:50:05 PM
One of the great anecdotes about Kimi is when he did his first tests for Sauber, the team saw his lap times and that he was very close to the regular drivers' times. They concluded he would soon be ready to take the next step, then he breaks in on the radio asking when he could start going fast. Jaw dropping moment for the guys and his place in the team was clear.

As for Alonso, I really like him and consider him to be one of the greatest. But like you say, he doesn't handle competition well. It was probably only Massa himself who actually thought he could match Alonso. But he's history now.

Hadn't heard that story about Kimi before, but it's fascinating nonetheless. I had a chance to meet Kimi at an autograph session in 2003, right after he lost the championship to Schumacher by 1 point. Let's just say that while he's an incredible talent, he's just as personable in real life as he is on TV ;D

Alonso is one heck of a driver as well. My hard head still thinks that Alonso and Hamilton have the edge in talent over Vettel. IMHO, the Ferrari chassis was a 5th or 6th place car much of this season, and the fact that Alonso managed to consistently put it on the podium is nothing short of miraculous. I just don't understand why Luca Di Montezemolo feels the need to criticize Alonso's performance in public when his engineers gave him a mediocre car! Perhaps Luca's forgotten that his teams boneheaded pit strategy cost Fernando the championship in 2010?
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Lloyd on November 28, 2013, 03:53:39 PM
If this trend continues, then 10 or 15 years from now there will probably be no more F1, and probably no more motor racing of any kind.  Only sailboats and solar powered bicycles...People are stupid!

It may not be too bad as these stupid sailers are already going over 50mph.http://youtu.be/kECYxBKHguM (http://youtu.be/kECYxBKHguM)In 10 to 15 years these sailboats may be going as fast as today's F1 cars.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on November 28, 2013, 04:01:14 PM
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power.  I've tried adding it to gasoline to boost octane, and it seems to work well.  You just need to allow for the fact that it burns hotter, yet slower than gasoline.  Mostly just used it in my 2 stroke atv and dirtbike...as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!  I better hurry up though, I'm not getting any younger, except mentally!

Those motors were nuts. Can you imagine the kind of courage it took to drive around a street course like Monaco - surrounded by concrete barriers - with that much power? I believe those turbo 1.5L motors produced 1,300 - 1,400 hp in qualifying trim. That's nearly 1,000 hp per liter. Incredible!

As for the 2014 motors, the energy recovery systems the teams have come up with are truly ingenious. They employ an electric motor integrated between the turbocharger's compressor and exhaust wheels. As the turbo shaft spins, these motors can either charge the propulsion battery, or at low rpm the motors can draw energy from the battery to spin the turbocharger, thus eliminating turbo lag. There's nothing like this at the OEM level, but I'm sure we'll be seeing similar technology in road cars many years down the road.

Rumor has it that the Mercedes engines have a 100 hp advantage over Renault and Ferrari for next season. That bodes well for Lewis and Jenson, provided Mercedes and McLaren come up with fast, reliable chassis. Perhaps we'll see another Englishman win the championship and make the Queen proud ;D 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 28, 2013, 04:59:02 PM
...
I don't think there's anyone that is any way associated with F1 that likes Bernie. I've tried to read up on the matter, but I just don't understand how one man was able to seize so much power in F1.

Well, he came from the bottom when F1 was small and just brought the money to F1 with publicity. He turned it from gentlemans racing to showbusiness. Once he had the control over money and publicity rights, he just forced the FIA to listen to him, and then, took over the FIA and regulation side of the the "sport". Since F1 became a money making machine, teams were also more inclined to oblige...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on November 28, 2013, 05:06:20 PM
...
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power. 
...
as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!

They also had flat floors and skirts that generated enormous downforce. So much so that the only compliant part of the suspension was the tires otherwise the cars would have been driven into the ground... Those have also been banned by the Bernie.

Now where are the keys to my Pagani, I can only find those of my old beater SLR...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 06, 2013, 03:44:02 PM
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power.  I've tried adding it to gasoline to boost octane, and it seems to work well.  You just need to allow for the fact that it burns hotter, yet slower than gasoline.  Mostly just used it in my 2 stroke atv and dirtbike...as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!  I better hurry up though, I'm not getting any younger, except mentally!

Those motors were nuts. Can you imagine the kind of courage it took to drive around a street course like Monaco - surrounded by concrete barriers - with that much power? I believe those turbo 1.5L motors produced 1,300 - 1,400 hp in qualifying trim. That's nearly 1,000 hp per liter. Incredible!

As for the 2014 motors, the energy recovery systems the teams have come up with are truly ingenious. They employ an electric motor integrated between the turbocharger's compressor and exhaust wheels. As the turbo shaft spins, these motors can either charge the propulsion battery, or at low rpm the motors can draw energy from the battery to spin the turbocharger, thus eliminating turbo lag. There's nothing like this at the OEM level, but I'm sure we'll be seeing similar technology in road cars many years down the road.

Rumor has it that the Mercedes engines have a 100 hp advantage over Renault and Ferrari for next season. That bodes well for Lewis and Jenson, provided Mercedes and McLaren come up with fast, reliable chassis. Perhaps we'll see another Englishman win the championship and make the Queen proud ;D

Agreed, they were incredible and I didn't follow it closely back then, as a "kid".  I didn't have cable tv until a few years ago!  Senna in particular was some kind of god of motoring, especially at Monaco.  I can't imagine what they must have been like, but the consensus is they were "scary" to drive...kind of like the Can Am cars of the '70's, such as the 917.  Yes I read about and saw pictures of the new motor design in F1 magazine a couple of months ago.  I'm kind of not all that enthusiastic about hybrid power, but I guess for the time being there's no stopping it.  I'm of the opinion that it certainly does not conserve resources, when used at the consumer level, given all the pollution, resources, and money expended on mining the raw material for the batteries.  It's also not a money maker for the manufacturers, it's a money loser (other than the luxury models that already have a lot of profit built in).

As for Lewis, I'm not remotely a fan of his.  He's an arrogant, entitled piece of garbage, and his driving style is unfocused, lacks discipline and consistency...again in my opinion...but his record bears this out.  He's a walking man-diva, and that has no place in racing.  The commentators (Hobbs and the others) certainly seem to feel that way about him also.  I cringe every time you brits rally around him, haha.  It's time for you all to find a new young brit driver to rally around...hopefully one will come forward soon.  We in the USA don't have any F1 drivers to rally around, but most of us just watch nascar anyway, so our brains are dead...hahaha. 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 06, 2013, 03:47:53 PM
...
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power. 
...
as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!

They also had flat floors and skirts that generated enormous downforce. So much so that the only compliant part of the suspension was the tires otherwise the cars would have been driven into the ground... Those have also been banned by the Bernie.

Now where are the keys to my Pagani, I can only find those of my old beater SLR...

Haha, I think Richard Hammond has them...so look it over for dings when you get it back!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 09, 2013, 10:10:41 PM
I'm kind of not all that enthusiastic about hybrid power, but I guess for the time being there's no stopping it.  I'm of the opinion that it certainly does not conserve resources, when used at the consumer level, given all the pollution, resources, and money expended on mining the raw material for the batteries.  It's also not a money maker for the manufacturers, it's a money loser (other than the luxury models that already have a lot of profit built in).

I concur, although the implementation of hybrid power in F1 is far more interesting that hybrid power in passenger cars. It's all about politics, but if that's what Bernie thinks he has to do to bring money into F1 then there isn't much the teams can do about it.

Quote
As for Lewis, I'm not remotely a fan of his.  He's an arrogant, entitled piece of garbage, and his driving style is unfocused, lacks discipline and consistency...again in my opinion...but his record bears this out.  He's a walking man-diva, and that has no place in racing.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel ;D LOL ;D I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of Lewis, but he's still one heck of a driver. It couldn't have been easy having a defending two-time world champion as his teammate at McLaren when he first broke into the sport, but he nearly won the championship as a rookie. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, but if I was a team principal, I'd take the arrogant driver and deal with the off-track fallout that comes with his attitude over a talented driver that lacks the confidence to take the fight to his peers. I think some of the struggles Lewis has had since winning his championship, especially with the atrocious McLaren chassis in 2009, has humbled him a bit, but what do I know :)?   

Quote
It's time for you all to find a new young brit driver to rally around...hopefully one will come forward soon.


Max Chilton, anyone ;D?

Quote
We in the USA don't have any F1 drivers to rally around

If Alexander Rossi gets a ride in F1, I hope he's more than just another Scott Speed.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 10, 2013, 03:27:40 AM
I'm kind of not all that enthusiastic about hybrid power, but I guess for the time being there's no stopping it.  I'm of the opinion that it certainly does not conserve resources, when used at the consumer level, given all the pollution, resources, and money expended on mining the raw material for the batteries.  It's also not a money maker for the manufacturers, it's a money loser (other than the luxury models that already have a lot of profit built in).

I concur, although the implementation of hybrid power in F1 is far more interesting that hybrid power in passenger cars. It's all about politics, but if that's what Bernie thinks he has to do to bring money into F1 then there isn't much the teams can do about it.

Quote
As for Lewis, I'm not remotely a fan of his.  He's an arrogant, entitled piece of garbage, and his driving style is unfocused, lacks discipline and consistency...again in my opinion...but his record bears this out.  He's a walking man-diva, and that has no place in racing.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel ;D LOL ;D I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of Lewis, but he's still one heck of a driver. It couldn't have been easy having a defending two-time world champion as his teammate at McLaren when he first broke into the sport, but he nearly won the championship as a rookie. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, but if I was a team principal, I'd take the arrogant driver and deal with the off-track fallout that comes with his attitude over a talented driver that lacks the confidence to take the fight to his peers. I think some of the struggles Lewis has had since winning his championship, especially with the atrocious McLaren chassis in 2009, has humbled him a bit, but what do I know :)?   

Quote
It's time for you all to find a new young brit driver to rally around...hopefully one will come forward soon.


Max Chilton, anyone ;D?

Quote
We in the USA don't have any F1 drivers to rally around

If Alexander Rossi gets a ride in F1, I hope he's more than just another Scott Speed.

Haha, sorry to spoil your pudding on Lewis, but again...Hobbs and gang agree with me, and he and Matchett are Britts.  Lewis proves time and again that he's arrogant, and his emotions override his skill.  He probably also calls out his own name during sex...hahaha!  These are problems Vettel has never had.  Sure he loses his temper sometimes, and sure he's a bit arrogant and entitled, but he doesn't wear it on his sleeve as a calling card like Lewis does.  Also Lewis seems to look down on his mechanics, which is no doubt why they seem to take joy in throwing a wrench in things now and again...and again...and again...hahaha.  Kind of like what Red Bull's mechanics did to poor Webber.  He's got at least as much skill as Lewis, if not more.  But on that team, Webber was never going to get anything other than crapped on...especially considering his age and that he wanted to retire anyway.

I haven't followed Rossi, not sure how he is as a driver.  Looks like the way F1 is structured (and controlled by Bernie and you Brits...haha)...that he will have a tough time ever getting a ride.

I'm not entirely sure how the new hybrid power plants relate to getting F1 funding, and from who.  Perhaps you can enlighten me?  Since there's not a profit in it, it makes me wonder who would sponsor F1 because of it.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 11, 2013, 03:02:41 PM
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm actually an American ;D I can see how the comment about the Queen may have thrown you off. As an American, I just find the concept of monarchy that has no real political power rather amusing :)

As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on December 12, 2013, 01:52:24 AM
As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.
The sole reason why Honda have re-entered the sport is due to the new direction that the sport is taking with regards to energy recovery, personally I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while we had Honda power (4 championships in a row and one 2nd place over a five year collaboration between 1988 and 1992), whereas we have used Mercedes power now for 19 years and only won 1 championship (came 2nd 7 times), so adios Mercedes, don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out  :P
Regarding Rossi, I believe that there is plenty of scope these days as there are plenty of drivers that are “past their sell by dates”, watch this space!!!  Teams like Marussia, Caterham, Sauber, and Williams are the kind of teams that will invest in lower cost-established championship winning drivers from other series, other teams like McLaren and Red Bull have young driver programs so it’s a bit of a revolving door at the moment, as I type this there are at least 6 seats available, and Rossi was the youngest ever driver to obtain his F1 Super Licence, so the future’s a bright place for this boy. 8)

There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 13, 2013, 09:16:37 AM
There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o

With so many fascinating subplots, 2014 is shaping up to be what should be a very memorable season. I have to wonder if the struggles of Ferrari and McLaren in 2013 were at least in some way related to a diversion in resources toward developing the 2014 car. Ferrari has by far the best 1-2 driver lineup, have brought back Rory Byrne, and are supposedly looking to reunite with Ross Brawn. Me thinks the Scuderia are on the right track.

It hurts me to see proud times like McLaren and Williams struggle so mightily. My gut tells me that Williams' glory days are behind them, but I hope I'm wrong. McLaren, on the other hand, have a history of pulling themselves up from the depths of despair, so I've learned to never doubt the engineers in Woking. I'll never forget how miserable the team looked at the beginning of the 2004 season with the MP4-19, only to retrun back to winning form by mid-season with the MP4-19B.

IMHO, watching how the engineers react to major rules changes is one of the most fascinating elements of F1. Since 2009, we've seen blown diffusers, F-ducts, and FRIC suspension. What tricks will teams come up with for 2014 and beyond? I can't wait to find out ;D!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on December 13, 2013, 02:42:27 PM
There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o

With so many fascinating subplots, 2014 is shaping up to be what should be a very memorable season. I have to wonder if the struggles of Ferrari and McLaren in 2013 were at least in some way related to a diversion in resources toward developing the 2014 car. Ferrari has by far the best 1-2 driver lineup, have brought back Rory Byrne, and are supposedly looking to reunite with Ross Brawn. Me thinks the Scuderia are on the right track.

It hurts me to see proud times like McLaren and Williams struggle so mightily. My gut tells me that Williams' glory days are behind them, but I hope I'm wrong. McLaren, on the other hand, have a history of pulling themselves up from the depths of despair, so I've learned to never doubt the engineers in Woking. I'll never forget how miserable the team looked at the beginning of the 2004 season with the MP4-19, only to retrun back to winning form by mid-season with the MP4-19B.

IMHO, watching how the engineers react to major rules changes is one of the most fascinating elements of F1. Since 2009, we've seen blown diffusers, F-ducts, and FRIC suspension. What tricks will teams come up with for 2014 and beyond? I can't wait to find out ;D!
I'm delighted you're a true and knowledgeable F1 fan. Like you say, next season could be the beginning of a new era. Let's hope the rules changes will allow for closer competition. On the other hand we know Adrian Newey will always come up with something special. I hope the new rules will at least move the scale little bit away from aerodynamic innovation only. Vettel is a tier 1 driver, but not a five times in a row champion. Let's hope for a driver's season next year.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 14, 2013, 12:25:35 AM
I'm delighted you're a true and knowledgeable F1 fan. Like you say, next season could be the beginning of a new era. Let's hope the rules changes will allow for closer competition. On the other hand we know Adrian Newey will always come up with something special. I hope the new rules will at least move the scale little bit away from aerodynamic innovation only. Vettel is a tier 1 driver, but not a five times in a row champion. Let's hope for a driver's season next year.

Likewise. I love to indulge in a good F1 discussion whenever I can. I rarely have such a receptive and knowledgeable audience :) Most people just think I'm crazy, and they're probably right ;D

If any of you folks ever make it out to the U.S. Grand Prix in Austin sometime, please drop me a line. I'm serious. I'd love to throw down some beer with you folks and talk some more F1 :) Perhaps we can squeeze in some camera gear discussion, too ;D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Arctic Photo on December 14, 2013, 02:59:08 AM
I'm delighted you're a true and knowledgeable F1 fan. Like you say, next season could be the beginning of a new era. Let's hope the rules changes will allow for closer competition. On the other hand we know Adrian Newey will always come up with something special. I hope the new rules will at least move the scale little bit away from aerodynamic innovation only. Vettel is a tier 1 driver, but not a five times in a row champion. Let's hope for a driver's season next year.

Likewise. I love to indulge in a good F1 discussion whenever I can. I rarely have such a receptive and knowledgeable audience :) Most people just think I'm crazy, and they're probably right ;D

If any of you folks ever make it out to the U.S. Grand Prix in Austin sometime, please drop me a line. I'm serious. I'd love to throw down some beer with you folks and talk some more F1 :) Perhaps we can squeeze in some camera gear discussion, too ;D
Hey, thanks. I've been to Austin several times thorugh my work and now we have friends who have moved bback there after several years in Europe and Asia so we are likely to end up there sooner or later. Not sure during the GP though unless they move around in the calendar. But I'll be sure to let you know. It would be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 15, 2013, 01:16:59 AM
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm actually an American ;D I can see how the comment about the Queen may have thrown you off. As an American, I just find the concept of monarchy that has no real political power rather amusing :)

As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.

Certainly that's the spin, but the reason production cars are going in that direction, is to cut emissions and increase gas mileage.  Most people don't drive 200mph on a curvy road on the way to work!  F1 racing is hardly relevant to either endeavor, and certainly there will still be sports and performance cars that don't use small displacement eco turbo engines for the foreseeable future.  It's just that the second tier offerings will be going in the econo direction to help the entire line achieve a lower CO2 footprint.  So it's a shame F1 and Bernie feel the need to mirror that.  For instance, I just read in "Car" magazine, that you can say goodbye to a flat 6 in the Boxster and Cayman.  They will get a smaller turbo 4 cylinder.  I guess it's a good thing I don't aspire to own either of them anyway.  It's just a shame that their prices probably won't see a decrease... 

If you're not even a Brit, yet you're a fan of Lewis Hamilton, that is very odd...but I don't mean any personal offense toward you!  I don't have enough friends who even follow F1, at least not currently.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 15, 2013, 01:21:41 AM
As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.
The sole reason why Honda have re-entered the sport is due to the new direction that the sport is taking with regards to energy recovery, personally I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while we had Honda power (4 championships in a row and one 2nd place over a five year collaboration between 1988 and 1992), whereas we have used Mercedes power now for 19 years and only won 1 championship (came 2nd 7 times), so adios Mercedes, don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out  :P
Regarding Rossi, I believe that there is plenty of scope these days as there are plenty of drivers that are “past their sell by dates”, watch this space!!!  Teams like Marussia, Caterham, Sauber, and Williams are the kind of teams that will invest in lower cost-established championship winning drivers from other series, other teams like McLaren and Red Bull have young driver programs so it’s a bit of a revolving door at the moment, as I type this there are at least 6 seats available, and Rossi was the youngest ever driver to obtain his F1 Super Licence, so the future’s a bright place for this boy. 8)

There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o

Do you work for Honda?  You said "we" when referring to them.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 15, 2013, 04:26:28 PM
If you're not even a Brit, yet you're a fan of Lewis Hamilton, that is very odd...but I don't mean any personal offense toward you!  I don't have enough friends who even follow F1, at least not currently.

I can't say that I'm a fan of Lewis Hamilton, but despite the "baggage" he brings with him, I respect his talent behind the wheel. Vettel is a great driver, but my worthless opinion is that Hamilton and Alonso are just a smidgen better.

Yes, limiting the quantity of fuel you can burn in any form of motorsport is idiotic. Even so, great innovation comes from great technical challenges, so I'm eager to see what new technologies emerge from such an idiotic regulation :)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on December 16, 2013, 04:47:47 AM
Do you work for Honda?  You said "we" when referring to them.
No mate I wish I was that involved, I said I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while “we” had Honda power, I was referring to McLaren as they are my team, I stick with the team and not the drivers, no matter who comes and goes!!
I agree with V8Beast about Hamilton and Alonso, I also think they are arguably the best drivers on the grid at the moment. 
All the limitations imposed on the teams in F1 by the powers that be are ultimately “bendable”, and these restrictions (and their loop holes) are what help create the new fancy gadgets that will find their way into production vehicles in the future, such as new lighter/stronger materials to old design features such as overhead cams, ignition timing, exhaust performance or simple aerodynamics or tyre features which can be used on a standard production car, it all starts in F1.
This (and the creepy bikini thread) are brilliant  ;)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 16, 2013, 04:12:11 PM
If you're not even a Brit, yet you're a fan of Lewis Hamilton, that is very odd...but I don't mean any personal offense toward you!  I don't have enough friends who even follow F1, at least not currently.

I can't say that I'm a fan of Lewis Hamilton, but despite the "baggage" he brings with him, I respect his talent behind the wheel. Vettel is a great driver, but my worthless opinion is that Hamilton and Alonso are just a smidgen better.

Yes, limiting the quantity of fuel you can burn in any form of motorsport is idiotic. Even so, great innovation comes from great technical challenges, so I'm eager to see what new technologies emerge from such an idiotic regulation :)

I can see your point...but no I disagree that Alonso and Hamilton are "better" drivers than Vettel.  They're not even close, really.  Alonso is getting older, and Hamilton is also older than Vettel...and again, lacks the right instincts, discipline, and respect for those around him to do anything other than run off the track whenever he actually is able to go fast.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 16, 2013, 04:21:33 PM
Do you work for Honda?  You said "we" when referring to them.
No mate I wish I was that involved, I said I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while “we” had Honda power, I was referring to McLaren as they are my team, I stick with the team and not the drivers, no matter who comes and goes!!
I agree with V8Beast about Hamilton and Alonso, I also think they are arguably the best drivers on the grid at the moment. 
All the limitations imposed on the teams in F1 by the powers that be are ultimately “bendable”, and these restrictions (and their loop holes) are what help create the new fancy gadgets that will find their way into production vehicles in the future, such as new lighter/stronger materials to old design features such as overhead cams, ignition timing, exhaust performance or simple aerodynamics or tyre features which can be used on a standard production car, it all starts in F1.
This (and the creepy bikini thread) are brilliant  ;)

I see.  Have to disagree again on Alonso and Hamilton, sorry.  I think this is just Vettel hating, nothing more.  Some people resent his (and his team's) success, I don't.  Again, he's also not a bad guy, and knows the meaning of respect...unlike Hamilton.  And again, Lewis can't go fast without crashing.  Raikkonen is a better driver than Hamilton, is perhaps similar in skill to Alonso...but is also just not quite at Vettel's ability.  Perhaps the best F1 driver in its history was Senna, but I'm sure you'll debate that as well.

I'm not saying F1 does not innovate, that would be absurd.  I'm just saying it's a shame they feel they have to mimmic what the passenger car manufacturers are doing regarding fuel consumption and emissions, because it's a compromise mandated by environmentalists who control governments, and has nothing to do with ultimate speed whatsoever.  F1 is, or should be about ultimate speed around a race track with lots of curves in it.  Nascar is about redneck drivers behaving badly chasing their tails in circles, Indy Car is about...not sure what.  Le Mans series is about both ultimate speed and endurance.  But since endurance is really their main reason for being, it makes more sense for Le Mans series to focus on fuel consumption and economy...hence Audi's and Peugeot's use (and dominance with) turbo diesel engines.

I mean, if fuel economy is of paramount importance to F1, they should just go with a one cylinder two stroke diesel, with hybrid solar power...and forget all about speed.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 16, 2013, 07:08:40 PM
Have to disagree again on Alonso and Hamilton, sorry.  I think this is just Vettel hating, nothing more.  Some people resent his (and his team's) success, I don't. 

Driver debates can go on forever, and IMHO it's just one factor that makes being an F1 fan even more interesting. I have the utmost respect for Vettel. No hating here. He has, however, been the beneficiary of great fortune, and winning championships is a combination of driving talent and circumstances falling your way.

Senna was arguably the greatest ever, far better than Prost, yet Prost had the better equipment and won more championships. Many would make a similar argument that Hakkinen was every bit as good, if not a better talent, than Schumacher. As a fan of the Scuderia, I was pulling for Schumacher back in the day, but it seems like Hakkienen got the better of Schumacher through sheer talent and determination, whereas Schumacher got the better of Hakkinen through superior equipment/reliability or pit strategy. Sure there were seasons during their rivalry where the McLaren was the faster car, but it wasn't the most reliable car.  If Mika hadn't retired at such a young age, I doubt Schumacher would be a 7-time World Champion. Again, it's a combination of talent, equipment, luck, and circumstance that went the way of guys like Prost and Schumacher that at least partially accounts for their success.

While driver talent is supremely important in F1, a great car can make a good driver appear to be a great driver. Can anyone honestly say that Jenson Button was the best driver on the grid during his championship season in 2009? No one in their right mind would have picked him to win the championship at the start of the season. Likewise, let's analyze the 2004 and 2005 seasons for Ferrari. Schumacher won 13 of 18 races in 2004, and finished on the podium in 16 of 18 races. That's probably the most dominant team and driver performance I'll ever seen in F1 in my lifetime. Compare that to 2005, when Schumacher only won 1 race! The Ferrari chassis was so miserably uncompetitive in 2005 that the same driver that won 13 races the year before could barely muster 1 win, and the only reason he won that race is because over half the field parked their cars after the formation lap at Indy!

My point is that the car is every bit as important as the driver in F1, and the greatest driver on earth will never win with a POS car. Vettel could very well have the talent to win in inferior equipment, but he's never had to prove himself in that regard. I'll give him props for eeking out a win with Toro Rosso, but he's had the best car by a wide margin since 2010.

In contrast, Alonso, Hamilton, and Raikkonen are all drivers who have managed to win races in inferior equipment. Perhaps the best example of this in recent years is Alonso, whose Ferrari is so slow that it would barely qualify 6th or 7th, yet he managed to consistently put in on the podium. And if not for idiotic pit strategy in the last race of 2010, Alonso would have won his third championship, which means that he and Vettel would both be three-time World Champions instead of the score being 4-2, in favor of Vettel :)

Vettel is good, very good, but how good we don't yet know because his car has been so freakin' fast. 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: LightandMotion on December 16, 2013, 08:48:03 PM
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..

Although I’m a landscape photographer primarily, I’m a huge motorsport fan. I compete in local motorsports (supersprints), and am a F1 junkie. I’ve gone to just about everyone of the F1 Aus Grand Prix since the mid-80s (Adelaide and Melbourne) and have photographed at Monza, Monte Carlo, Shanghai and Singapore. Have not done Sepang though, although I’ve driven past it a few times.

My thoughts are:

1. Preparation is key, and you’ll get your best motor racing images on the Fri/Sat rather than race day. Study the map of the circuit and determine which is the best corner for images. If you can walk around the circuit on the Thursday so you can plan where to shoot when the F1s do the practice sessions on Fri and Sat. For example side on to a straight is generally useless, but head on can provide for some dramatic action. For panning, I like to find a slow corner, where the cars can accelerate from an initial relatively slow speed. This allows your AI servo /AF tracking to lock on easier than trying to lock on at 300km/hr.

2. Race day is a day to enjoy the race. Take your images during Fri and Sat practice or qualifying. If you can get a multistand ticket (diff stand Fri/Sat/Sun) that is great so all your photos don’t look the same. However, a lot of venues allow you to go to any stand or any part of the circuit on a Friday. Also check out the entry criteria for photography. At the Aus GP max 300mm lens can be used, and they police white lens bigger than this (although you can mostly sweet talk your way around this). At Monza/MonteCarlo/Singapore – they don’t care. Not sure about Malaysia.
 
The ideal corner has a tight entry, opens out onto a long enough straight for you to get a smooth panning action going.

3. A lot of the grand prix tracks, and I suppose Malaysia is no different, are surrounded by wire cage. It is often impossible to get above the wire to shoot in the corner you want, so I get as close to the wire as possible and shoot through it.

Shoot with the lens wide open, get as close to the wire as possible, and avoid direct sunlight on the wire. The depth of field will render the wire virtually invisible. All my best images have been shot through the wire.

4. Regarding focusing through the wire – I use the 1dx so the AF tracking (option 1 or 2) is exceptional. During panning, once the AF locks on, it just doesn’t let go. My keeper rate is a lot higher than when I was using the 5d2 and even the 1d4. Yes you can manual focus to a predetermine part of the track, and this works if you want to freeze the car at 1/2000 etc. However I find static motorsports images fairly boring and prefer to pan. Once you pan, manual prefocusing is obviously problematic. Much better to use AI servo.

5. If panning, shutter speeds will be in the order of 1/30 – 1/100, depending on the corner and the speed of the car. If you are shooting wide open to use DOF to render the wire invisible, your shot will be overexposed on bright days even at ISO 50-100. I therefore always carry some ND filters, Generally a 3 stop is enough. As my primary lens are the 300 f2.8 or the 400 f2.8, I carry drop in NDs. If using the 70-200, a front screw in 2-3 stop will be more than adequate.

6. Although I have a 400 f2.8IS, and can shoot it hand held, or with a monopod, I find the 300 f2.8IS more versatile and more than enough at most tracks. You can shoot all day with it, don’t need a monopod, can move quickly from corner to corner. Add a 1.4III extender if you need more reach. Also don't forget a wide angle for colour and atmosphere.

Some of my images from G+:

As I can’t sell F1 images without permission, I don’t have many on my website:

Enjoy Sepang!


https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5927179593387000225 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5927179593387000225)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5786792556258311809 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5786792556258311809)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5660688069789823073 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5660688069789823073)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5721611848279568689 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5721611848279568689)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 17, 2013, 12:43:35 AM
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..



Incredible images and great advice!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on December 17, 2013, 03:15:14 AM
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..
Incredible images and great advice!
Totally agree, OP pretty much follow what that guy said  ;D
I found the following comment on a fan page that I'm signed up to, it sounds sensible, so hope this little bit also helps!
The first time we went there we sat on open stands at turn 14 ( now non-existant) no shelter, bloody hot, but right on the restart to the grandstand straight. ( Great accelerations views) the year after I took the open field at turn 8. Still no shelter and we melted under our umbrellas that’s when I decided that every other year we will get the covered open area @ turn 10/11 and that’s where we’ve been every year since.
On a similar note, if anyone fancies dropping into Dubai on the 10th January then I’ll happily show you the wonderful sights of the Dunlop 24 hour’s race, which is still my most favourite motorsport event EVER!  We have 86 GT cars confirmed this year.....including an official team entry from McLaren, so I’ll be in heaven!!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Dick on December 17, 2013, 02:12:18 PM
I can see your point...but no I disagree that Alonso and Hamilton are "better" drivers than Vettel.  They're not even close, really.  Alonso is getting older, and Hamilton is also older than Vettel...and again, lacks the right instincts, discipline, and respect for those around him to do anything other than run off the track whenever he actually is able to go fast.

That is not even close to being the full story. Anyone of the drivers can drive from pole to victory with the best ride in the series. How can anyone say anything about Vettel's skills, when he hasn't been in a comparable situation to the others?

It also seems to be so that certain settings only fit one driver and usually both cars from one team are built with those settings. The other driver suffers because of this. It might not be possible to say if Kimi is better than Alonso (or the other way around) even when they both race Ferraris. Häkkinen claims that the turbo engine driving style fits Kimi better. Who knows... And yeah, Alonso is already taking part in the upcoming car's planning, so it might be built to suit him better & then Kimi just has to do his best with that.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 18, 2013, 02:56:39 AM
Have to disagree again on Alonso and Hamilton, sorry.  I think this is just Vettel hating, nothing more.  Some people resent his (and his team's) success, I don't. 

Driver debates can go on forever, and IMHO it's just one factor that makes being an F1 fan even more interesting. I have the utmost respect for Vettel. No hating here. He has, however, been the beneficiary of great fortune, and winning championships is a combination of driving talent and circumstances falling your way.

Senna was arguably the greatest ever, far better than Prost, yet Prost had the better equipment and won more championships. Many would make a similar argument that Hakkinen was every bit as good, if not a better talent, than Schumacher. As a fan of the Scuderia, I was pulling for Schumacher back in the day, but it seems like Hakkienen got the better of Schumacher through sheer talent and determination, whereas Schumacher got the better of Hakkinen through superior equipment/reliability or pit strategy. Sure there were seasons during their rivalry where the McLaren was the faster car, but it wasn't the most reliable car.  If Mika hadn't retired at such a young age, I doubt Schumacher would be a 7-time World Champion. Again, it's a combination of talent, equipment, luck, and circumstance that went the way of guys like Prost and Schumacher that at least partially accounts for their success.

While driver talent is supremely important in F1, a great car can make a good driver appear to be a great driver. Can anyone honestly say that Jenson Button was the best driver on the grid during his championship season in 2009? No one in their right mind would have picked him to win the championship at the start of the season. Likewise, let's analyze the 2004 and 2005 seasons for Ferrari. Schumacher won 13 of 18 races in 2004, and finished on the podium in 16 of 18 races. That's probably the most dominant team and driver performance I'll ever seen in F1 in my lifetime. Compare that to 2005, when Schumacher only won 1 race! The Ferrari chassis was so miserably uncompetitive in 2005 that the same driver that won 13 races the year before could barely muster 1 win, and the only reason he won that race is because over half the field parked their cars after the formation lap at Indy!

My point is that the car is every bit as important as the driver in F1, and the greatest driver on earth will never win with a POS car. Vettel could very well have the talent to win in inferior equipment, but he's never had to prove himself in that regard. I'll give him props for eeking out a win with Toro Rosso, but he's had the best car by a wide margin since 2010.

In contrast, Alonso, Hamilton, and Raikkonen are all drivers who have managed to win races in inferior equipment. Perhaps the best example of this in recent years is Alonso, whose Ferrari is so slow that it would barely qualify 6th or 7th, yet he managed to consistently put in on the podium. And if not for idiotic pit strategy in the last race of 2010, Alonso would have won his third championship, which means that he and Vettel would both be three-time World Champions instead of the score being 4-2, in favor of Vettel :)

Vettel is good, very good, but how good we don't yet know because his car has been so freakin' fast.

Agree for the most part, and thanks for the history lesson!  I would have been a fan of Schumacher if I had cable during his years.  I liked watching him drive for Mercedes, even if the car was as if it was made of lead!  I recall one of my british ladyfriends I used to chat to online back in 2002, saying that the likes of Montoya was going to give Schumie a run for his money that year.  I doubt he did, though.  He came into Nascar in what, '06?  Then faded away or was fired just recently...I bet he's still a decent driver though.  It's a shame he didn't go to sports cars like Webber is going to do.

From what I gather from more recent commentary about Schumacher, it's that he was one of the best ever in the rain...and extremely aggressive when somebody tried to overtake him...to the point of trying to kill whoever did it.  Not sure how many penalties he got for that.  I am far from an F1 historian such as yourself :P...

Having watched Vettel race since 2009, and especially how many pole positions he achieves...and how he is able to snatch a fast qualifying time out of the fire at will with nerves of steel...I dunno it just seems like nobody else is able to do that.  Sure he has the best car, designer and team.  Maybe after the new chassis and powerplants come in, he won't have the best car anymore, and his dominance will be over?  People like you probably hope so, but I am kind of pulling for him I guess.  I kind of see myself in him.  Somebody who has a killer instinct and mind-blowing reaction times, but still likes to think of themselves as a nice guy.

I also see myself as treating my mechanics like he treats his, if I were an F1 driver.  And I see people like Hamilton as not even deserving to even have a ride.  The spoiled kid who always gets his way but still manages to lose, and the next race loses his cool and runs off the track...that's Hamilton.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 18, 2013, 03:00:39 AM
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..
Incredible images and great advice!
Totally agree, OP pretty much follow what that guy said  ;D
I found the following comment on a fan page that I'm signed up to, it sounds sensible, so hope this little bit also helps!
The first time we went there we sat on open stands at turn 14 ( now non-existant) no shelter, bloody hot, but right on the restart to the grandstand straight. ( Great accelerations views) the year after I took the open field at turn 8. Still no shelter and we melted under our umbrellas that’s when I decided that every other year we will get the covered open area @ turn 10/11 and that’s where we’ve been every year since.
On a similar note, if anyone fancies dropping into Dubai on the 10th January then I’ll happily show you the wonderful sights of the Dunlop 24 hour’s race, which is still my most favourite motorsport event EVER!  We have 86 GT cars confirmed this year.....including an official team entry from McLaren, so I’ll be in heaven!!

You live in Dubai?  That's cool...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 18, 2013, 03:06:04 AM
I can see your point...but no I disagree that Alonso and Hamilton are "better" drivers than Vettel.  They're not even close, really.  Alonso is getting older, and Hamilton is also older than Vettel...and again, lacks the right instincts, discipline, and respect for those around him to do anything other than run off the track whenever he actually is able to go fast.

That is not even close to being the full story. Anyone of the drivers can drive from pole to victory with the best ride in the series. How can anyone say anything about Vettel's skills, when he hasn't been in a comparable situation to the others?

It also seems to be so that certain settings only fit one driver and usually both cars from one team are built with those settings. The other driver suffers because of this. It might not be possible to say if Kimi is better than Alonso (or the other way around) even when they both race Ferraris. Häkkinen claims that the turbo engine driving style fits Kimi better. Who knows... And yeah, Alonso is already taking part in the upcoming car's planning, so it might be built to suit him better & then Kimi just has to do his best with that.

Whatever you say, but still it just sounds like you don't like Vettel.  If he had a slow car, he would lose.  But he doesn't.  He also has consistency, discipline, and calm nerves.  Perhaps you haven't seen the qualifying sessions over the past 4 years?  Sure he doesn't always get pole, but look at what he's able to do.  It's even a bit of a mind game on the other drivers...

One thing I'll admit.  Vettel is lucky Kimi isn't going to be his teammate...and I'm not sure Alonso is going to like it.

But for you to say nobody can say anything about Vettel's skills just because he has a fast car, is not right.  It takes both a car and skill, as V8Beast has said.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on December 18, 2013, 05:03:16 AM
You live in Dubai?  That's cool...
Thanks mate, yes it's a nice place, INSANE driving standards, but a nice place  8)

I love how sports can be defended so seriously, THIS is what makes being a supporter is all about!!
The whole “my favourites better than your favourite” is an inevitable outcome to all threads and it really is the salt of the earth, I love how F1 fans mingle and rhyme off the stats of their best ever moments in history and defend their team or driver to the death!!!
For me Senna was the best, Shumi was incredible but at that time I worked weekends and had just got engaged, so having the luxury of supporting F1 was not really an option, I did keep up with events but I missed a lot of races, the fact that I’m a McLaren fan and that “the old enemy” (Ferrari) was trouncing everyone in their path sort of led to a lack of enthusiasm.

For me Vettel is currently the best on the track, the guy’s the 4 time world champion and credit where it’s due, his skills with the RB car have been exceptional, the fact that he can create a lead of almost double digits in a few short laps also suggests that he and the car really are one, and that the RB car is in a league of its own!!   The only real time I saw him showing that he was human, and could succumb to pressure like us mere mortals was the 2011 season in Canada when Jenson was tailing him in the rain and he lost the back end for a slight moment, this was enough for our Jenson and he took him.   
The RB car has been so superior since that no one, from any team, has been able to get close enough to put the same pressure on him, so let’s see what next year brings!!  He actually is a nice guy too, I met him in 2010 in Abu Dhabi and we got talking about the circuit, we had a marshals pitts walk round on the Friday night and that’s how I got to meet him, he gave me a Red Bull cap and he signed it along with the programme, a truly nice guy.  Alonso just sped up his pace to avoid the fast approaching pack of autograph hungry marshals!!!! :-\
All in all, I love everything about F1, including the rivalry and passion, opposing opinions and following your heart, this makes the sport what it is! 
So thank you to everyone who’s passionate enough to actually comment on this thread and keep it alive, sorry to the OP for the consistent hijack!!! :-*
I'll try and find my F1 photo's and post some more from Abu Dhabi over the weekend when I'm not a work skivving  ;D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 19, 2013, 02:37:46 AM
You live in Dubai?  That's cool...
Thanks mate, yes it's a nice place, INSANE driving standards, but a nice place  8)

I love how sports can be defended so seriously, THIS is what makes being a supporter is all about!!
The whole “my favourites better than your favourite” is an inevitable outcome to all threads and it really is the salt of the earth, I love how F1 fans mingle and rhyme off the stats of their best ever moments in history and defend their team or driver to the death!!!
For me Senna was the best, Shumi was incredible but at that time I worked weekends and had just got engaged, so having the luxury of supporting F1 was not really an option, I did keep up with events but I missed a lot of races, the fact that I’m a McLaren fan and that “the old enemy” (Ferrari) was trouncing everyone in their path sort of led to a lack of enthusiasm.

For me Vettel is currently the best on the track, the guy’s the 4 time world champion and credit where it’s due, his skills with the RB car have been exceptional, the fact that he can create a lead of almost double digits in a few short laps also suggests that he and the car really are one, and that the RB car is in a league of its own!!   The only real time I saw him showing that he was human, and could succumb to pressure like us mere mortals was the 2011 season in Canada when Jenson was tailing him in the rain and he lost the back end for a slight moment, this was enough for our Jenson and he took him.   
The RB car has been so superior since that no one, from any team, has been able to get close enough to put the same pressure on him, so let’s see what next year brings!!  He actually is a nice guy too, I met him in 2010 in Abu Dhabi and we got talking about the circuit, we had a marshals pitts walk round on the Friday night and that’s how I got to meet him, he gave me a Red Bull cap and he signed it along with the programme, a truly nice guy.  Alonso just sped up his pace to avoid the fast approaching pack of autograph hungry marshals!!!! :-\
All in all, I love everything about F1, including the rivalry and passion, opposing opinions and following your heart, this makes the sport what it is! 
So thank you to everyone who’s passionate enough to actually comment on this thread and keep it alive, sorry to the OP for the consistent hijack!!! :-*
I'll try and find my F1 photo's and post some more from Abu Dhabi over the weekend when I'm not a work skivving  ;D

I think we agree on every point...and I'm impressed you got to meet him.  However, if you're also saying you're an F1 race marshal...then I'm even more impressed and honored to be chatting you!!  I've never been to an F1 race in person yet, but I have been to a Le Mans series race.  Loved it...and that was long ago, too...1992!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: dolina on December 19, 2013, 02:43:29 AM
Try to get a photo pass.

If you cant get one then get a all area pass.

Try slow shutter panning.

Elevate yourself above eye level.

If you are doing Singapore the week of the race Canon normally sponsors a talk by a motorsport photog.

Formula 1 Photographer Interview Darren Heath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn3H2y0wH5M#)
http://forums.vr-zone.com/chit-chatting/487949-darren-heath-f1-professional-photography.html (http://forums.vr-zone.com/chit-chatting/487949-darren-heath-f1-professional-photography.html)
Darren Heath - What it means to me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBnvFR4XjWM#ws)
https://archive.org/details/TheFlyingLapEpisode57F1PhotographerDarrenHeath (https://archive.org/details/TheFlyingLapEpisode57F1PhotographerDarrenHeath)
https://archive.org/details/TWiT_Photo_39 (https://archive.org/details/TWiT_Photo_39)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 19, 2013, 02:44:35 AM
Try to get a photo pass.

If you cant get one then get a all area pass.

Try slow shutter panning.

Elevate yourself above eye level.

If you are doing Singapore the week of the race Canon normally sponsors a talk by a motorsport photog.

Formula 1 Photographer Interview Darren Heath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn3H2y0wH5M#)
http://forums.vr-zone.com/chit-chatting/487949-darren-heath-f1-professional-photography.html (http://forums.vr-zone.com/chit-chatting/487949-darren-heath-f1-professional-photography.html)
Darren Heath - What it means to me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBnvFR4XjWM#ws)
https://archive.org/details/TheFlyingLapEpisode57F1PhotographerDarrenHeath (https://archive.org/details/TheFlyingLapEpisode57F1PhotographerDarrenHeath)
https://archive.org/details/TWiT_Photo_39 (https://archive.org/details/TWiT_Photo_39)

This is cool thank you!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on December 19, 2013, 08:11:53 PM
Try to get a photo pass.

If you cant get one then get a all area pass.

Try slow shutter panning.

Elevate yourself above eye level.

If you are doing Singapore the week of the race Canon normally sponsors a talk by a motorsport photog.

Formula 1 Photographer Interview Darren Heath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn3H2y0wH5M#)
http://forums.vr-zone.com/chit-chatting/487949-darren-heath-f1-professional-photography.html (http://forums.vr-zone.com/chit-chatting/487949-darren-heath-f1-professional-photography.html)
Darren Heath - What it means to me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBnvFR4XjWM#ws)
https://archive.org/details/TheFlyingLapEpisode57F1PhotographerDarrenHeath (https://archive.org/details/TheFlyingLapEpisode57F1PhotographerDarrenHeath)
https://archive.org/details/TWiT_Photo_39 (https://archive.org/details/TWiT_Photo_39)

Sadly, getting a media accreditation  is not that easy. Yo..u need to demonstrate that you will be published in high volume medias. If I recall correctly, that is at least 20000 copies... details available at:

http://www.fia.com/media-centre/media-accreditation (http://www.fia.com/media-centre/media-accreditation)

Probably not in the reach of a 50D owner with a 55-250 (no offense meant, I have similar equipment...)
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on December 19, 2013, 08:20:33 PM
Sorry I’ve missed this thread until now. Sorry also for my long reply. Going back to the OP’s question…..

Although I’m a landscape photographer primarily, I’m a huge motorsport fan. I compete in local motorsports (supersprints), and am a F1 junkie. I’ve gone to just about everyone of the F1 Aus Grand Prix since the mid-80s (Adelaide and Melbourne) and have photographed at Monza, Monte Carlo, Shanghai and Singapore. Have not done Sepang though, although I’ve driven past it a few times.

My thoughts are:

1. Preparation is key, and you’ll get your best motor racing images on the Fri/Sat rather than race day. Study the map of the circuit and determine which is the best corner for images. If you can walk around the circuit on the Thursday so you can plan where to shoot when the F1s do the practice sessions on Fri and Sat. For example side on to a straight is generally useless, but head on can provide for some dramatic action. For panning, I like to find a slow corner, where the cars can accelerate from an initial relatively slow speed. This allows your AI servo /AF tracking to lock on easier than trying to lock on at 300km/hr.

2. Race day is a day to enjoy the race. Take your images during Fri and Sat practice or qualifying. If you can get a multistand ticket (diff stand Fri/Sat/Sun) that is great so all your photos don’t look the same. However, a lot of venues allow you to go to any stand or any part of the circuit on a Friday. Also check out the entry criteria for photography. At the Aus GP max 300mm lens can be used, and they police white lens bigger than this (although you can mostly sweet talk your way around this). At Monza/MonteCarlo/Singapore – they don’t care. Not sure about Malaysia.
 
The ideal corner has a tight entry, opens out onto a long enough straight for you to get a smooth panning action going.

3. A lot of the grand prix tracks, and I suppose Malaysia is no different, are surrounded by wire cage. It is often impossible to get above the wire to shoot in the corner you want, so I get as close to the wire as possible and shoot through it.

Shoot with the lens wide open, get as close to the wire as possible, and avoid direct sunlight on the wire. The depth of field will render the wire virtually invisible. All my best images have been shot through the wire.

4. Regarding focusing through the wire – I use the 1dx so the AF tracking (option 1 or 2) is exceptional. During panning, once the AF locks on, it just doesn’t let go. My keeper rate is a lot higher than when I was using the 5d2 and even the 1d4. Yes you can manual focus to a predetermine part of the track, and this works if you want to freeze the car at 1/2000 etc. However I find static motorsports images fairly boring and prefer to pan. Once you pan, manual prefocusing is obviously problematic. Much better to use AI servo.

5. If panning, shutter speeds will be in the order of 1/30 – 1/100, depending on the corner and the speed of the car. If you are shooting wide open to use DOF to render the wire invisible, your shot will be overexposed on bright days even at ISO 50-100. I therefore always carry some ND filters, Generally a 3 stop is enough. As my primary lens are the 300 f2.8 or the 400 f2.8, I carry drop in NDs. If using the 70-200, a front screw in 2-3 stop will be more than adequate.

6. Although I have a 400 f2.8IS, and can shoot it hand held, or with a monopod, I find the 300 f2.8IS more versatile and more than enough at most tracks. You can shoot all day with it, don’t need a monopod, can move quickly from corner to corner. Add a 1.4III extender if you need more reach. Also don't forget a wide angle for colour and atmosphere.

Some of my images from G+:

As I can’t sell F1 images without permission, I don’t have many on my website:

Enjoy Sepang!


https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5927179593387000225 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5927179593387000225)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5786792556258311809 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5786792556258311809)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5660688069789823073 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5660688069789823073)

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5721611848279568689 (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/109217461409629684011/albums/5721611848279568689)

Some nice pictures there, congratulations.
Icket
Here in Montreal, about only the northern third or half of the circuit is open to general admittance and even a silver stand ticket like minesopens up only either the west (where I've been) or the east part of the circuit. This makes it hard to vary the perspective of the pictures you take. But hey, I like a challenge.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on December 19, 2013, 08:38:29 PM
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm actually an American ;D I can see how the comment about the Queen may have thrown you off. As an American, I just find the concept of monarchy that has no real political power rather amusing :)

As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.

Certainly that's the spin, but the reason production cars are going in that direction, is to cut emissions and increase gas mileage.  Most people don't drive 200mph on a curvy road on the way to work!  F1 racing is hardly relevant to either endeavor, and certainly there will still be sports and performance cars that don't use small displacement eco turbo engines for the foreseeable future.  It's just that the second tier offerings will be going in the econo direction to help the entire line achieve a lower CO2 footprint.  So it's a shame F1 and Bernie feel the need to mirror that.  For instance, I just read in "Car" magazine, that you can say goodbye to a flat 6 in the Boxster and Cayman.  They will get a smaller turbo 4 cylinder.  I guess it's a good thing I don't aspire to own either of them anyway.  It's just a shame that their prices probably won't see a decrease... 

If you're not even a Brit, yet you're a fan of Lewis Hamilton, that is very odd...but I don't mean any personal offense toward you!  I don't have enough friends who even follow F1, at least not currently.

I actually am quite sure that pushing the envellope in F1 is likely to bring new technologies to consumer cars. Altough their immediate use differ at first sight, reliability and efficiency are key in both domains. Although I do enjoy large displacement petrol engines a lot, I've always believed that for high performance cars, less is more. I am a big fan of Collin Chapman and Gordon Murray design philosophy.

I actually doubt that the new engine regulations will make the cars slower. The electtric drive is going to provide torque levels probably unheard of in the history of F1. Couple this with potentially lighter cars and it is actually quite promising. As for fuel quantity limits, I don't feel like is that much different from the intake restrictor size regulations that limit the available air intake. You need both air and fuel to get power out of that engine. If you limit the air volume, you might as well limit the fuel volume too...

Edit: did I actually say that actually...Oh I actually already said actually too oftenin a single post.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on December 20, 2013, 11:24:45 PM
Having watched Vettel race since 2009, and especially how many pole positions he achieves...and how he is able to snatch a fast qualifying time out of the fire at will with nerves of steel...I dunno it just seems like nobody else is able to do that.  Sure he has the best car, designer and team.  Maybe after the new chassis and powerplants come in, he won't have the best car anymore, and his dominance will be over?  People like you probably hope so, but I am kind of pulling for him I guess.  I kind of see myself in him.  Somebody who has a killer instinct and mind-blowing reaction times, but still likes to think of themselves as a nice guy.

If you don't like Hamilton, you would have hated Montoya. Take all the negative elements you mentioned about Hamilton, multiply them by 10, that should give you a pretty good idea of what Montoya's F1 career was like. He was a man of immense talent that could lay down blistering laps, but his impatience and lack of discipline led to his downfall. He was a huge waste of talent to say the least.

I wish Vettel no ill fortune. He hasn't had to fight through much adversity at this stage in his career, which is why I'm hesitant to put in him the same league as Senna and Schumacher just yet, but he's so young that he has plenty of time shut people like me up :) However, thus far in his career, I'd say he's been the most likable multiple World Champion in recent memory.
 
IMHO, although Schumacher was one of the best drivers in F1 history, he was also one of the dirtiest drivers in F1 history. That fact will always taint his legacy, which is shame, because the man was brilliant in his prime. The only real blemishes on Vettel's record thus far are his wreck with Webber a few years back in Turkey, and disobeying team orders in Malaysia this season. Anyone who watched Schumacher race knows those are but minor infractions compared to the antics the elder German pulled up during this driving days!

 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on December 26, 2013, 03:48:46 PM
Having watched Vettel race since 2009, and especially how many pole positions he achieves...and how he is able to snatch a fast qualifying time out of the fire at will with nerves of steel...I dunno it just seems like nobody else is able to do that.  Sure he has the best car, designer and team.  Maybe after the new chassis and powerplants come in, he won't have the best car anymore, and his dominance will be over?  People like you probably hope so, but I am kind of pulling for him I guess.  I kind of see myself in him.  Somebody who has a killer instinct and mind-blowing reaction times, but still likes to think of themselves as a nice guy.

If you don't like Hamilton, you would have hated Montoya. Take all the negative elements you mentioned about Hamilton, multiply them by 10, that should give you a pretty good idea of what Montoya's F1 career was like. He was a man of immense talent that could lay down blistering laps, but his impatience and lack of discipline led to his downfall. He was a huge waste of talent to say the least.

I wish Vettel no ill fortune. He hasn't had to fight through much adversity at this stage in his career, which is why I'm hesitant to put in him the same league as Senna and Schumacher just yet, but he's so young that he has plenty of time shut people like me up :) However, thus far in his career, I'd say he's been the most likable multiple World Champion in recent memory.
 
IMHO, although Schumacher was one of the best drivers in F1 history, he was also one of the dirtiest drivers in F1 history. That fact will always taint his legacy, which is shame, because the man was brilliant in his prime. The only real blemishes on Vettel's record thus far are his wreck with Webber a few years back in Turkey, and disobeying team orders in Malaysia this season. Anyone who watched Schumacher race knows those are but minor infractions compared to the antics the elder German pulled up during this driving days!

Agree on pretty much all points!  Just watching Schumacher in his recent stint with Mercedes seemed to fit with the commentator's opinion of how he raced in his prime.  He didn't just have killer instincts, he was brutal, unrelenting...cruel and reckless (when it came to blocking over-takers...especially a few notables.)

Agree I wouldn't put Vettel up there with Schumacher and Senna just yet, but I didn't think I said it quite like that.

As for Hamilton, I just put him in the same league as Tiger Woods...they even look very similar.  I guess that almost sounds racist (not meant to be), but it is very odd that they would look so similar and have such a similar smug attitude.  I suppose Hamilton is probably a much more decent and nice guy than Woods, but that's not saying much. 
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on December 28, 2013, 12:38:33 PM
Good evening folks, hope everyone’s having a superb festive season, and I hope Santa Clawz was good to you all, I’m conscious that this conversation is not adding to the OP so I’ve started a new thread called Your favourite motorsports events ( http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=18814.0 (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=18814.0) ) so please feel free to jump in and add all your lovely pics from any events you have attended.

Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on April 06, 2014, 03:30:17 PM
Hi folks.

I'll be going to the Malaysian F1 Grand Prix next year and i'm looking for some advice on what kit would be best to take.  I have grandstand tickets on the pit straight for all three days and also might get pit lane access probably on the practice day through a friend who works for one of the teams.

I currently have an Eos 50D, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 28-135, and Canon 55-250.  I have been considering selling the 55-250 and getting a 70-200 F4.  Would this be a good idea or would the extra reach of the 55-250 be more useful.

Thanks

Hey TomTom, may be its a long shot but I would be happy to hear about your f1 experience and, if you feel like it, post some of your images.

Regards.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: wickidwombat on April 24, 2014, 03:07:35 AM
some F1 pics, posted in the panning thread but thought i'd pop them in here too
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Roo on April 24, 2014, 06:04:28 AM
some F1 pics, posted in the panning thread but thought i'd pop them in here too

Awesome shots!!  It looks like the Tammy delivered the goods for you :)  Any issues?
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: CarlTN on April 24, 2014, 07:28:51 PM
some F1 pics, posted in the panning thread but thought i'd pop them in here too

I agree, these are mind-blowingly good!!  Bravo and here here !!  Job well done sir, keep it up!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: wickidwombat on April 24, 2014, 07:50:14 PM
some F1 pics, posted in the panning thread but thought i'd pop them in here too

Awesome shots!!  It looks like the Tammy delivered the goods for you :)  Any issues?

Issues well the VC is the biggest issue it utterly blows and was destroying shots got a 0% keeper rate trying to pan with it on so i just turned it off

Focusing I occasionally could not lock at long distance at all but that could be the haze or rain depending which day making it quite low contrast out on the back straight

However Tracking and servo were nothing short of amazing it held lock on the car even when the car went behind the fence or signs.

Also the Zoom Throw is WAY too long it sucks, and the direction is not convenient for being able to zoom and pan with good technique the canon direction is much more condusive to this so i missed lots of shots because of the silly nikon direction zoom.

The other issue is I didn't have a monopod or tripod with me so my arms were falling off by the end of the sessions :P
however i noticed the people with monopods eventually ditched them too.

I think for an enthusiast with the price of this lens it is utterly unbeatable and even at 600mm I am very happy with the images. however I don't think it would cut it for pro use the canon 200-400 would be in a whole other league I think. Not that i have had the pleasure of using the canon.

On race day i had to forget trying to shoot the main straight there were just too many people but having 600mm let me get right into the pit lane action from my seat which was awesome so i spent alot of time getting some interesting pit lane action which is in itself amazing to watch you dont realize how fast those guys are till you try and shoot them with only 6FPS! :P

If Tamron had put panning mode VC on this lens and made the canon mount zoom the correct way with half the throw I would happily pay double the price.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Roo on April 25, 2014, 08:09:44 AM
some F1 pics, posted in the panning thread but thought i'd pop them in here too

Awesome shots!!  It looks like the Tammy delivered the goods for you :)  Any issues?

Issues well the VC is the biggest issue it utterly blows and was destroying shots got a 0% keeper rate trying to pan with it on so i just turned it off

Focusing I occasionally could not lock at long distance at all but that could be the haze or rain depending which day making it quite low contrast out on the back straight

However Tracking and servo were nothing short of amazing it held lock on the car even when the car went behind the fence or signs.

Also the Zoom Throw is WAY too long it sucks, and the direction is not convenient for being able to zoom and pan with good technique the canon direction is much more condusive to this so i missed lots of shots because of the silly nikon direction zoom.

The other issue is I didn't have a monopod or tripod with me so my arms were falling off by the end of the sessions :P
however i noticed the people with monopods eventually ditched them too.

I think for an enthusiast with the price of this lens it is utterly unbeatable and even at 600mm I am very happy with the images. however I don't think it would cut it for pro use the canon 200-400 would be in a whole other league I think. Not that i have had the pleasure of using the canon.

On race day i had to forget trying to shoot the main straight there were just too many people but having 600mm let me get right into the pit lane action from my seat which was awesome so i spent alot of time getting some interesting pit lane action which is in itself amazing to watch you dont realize how fast those guys are till you try and shoot them with only 6FPS! :P

If Tamron had put panning mode VC on this lens and made the canon mount zoom the correct way with half the throw I would happily pay double the price.

I think you've confirmed most of the issues everyone seems to have with the lens and the lack of panning zoom was one of the first things I noticed. I got used to 'nikon' style zoom as I have a couple of Tamron lenses. However,  I sent mine back a couple of weeks ago to be checked out as I found a few specks of dust inside the front element.   As for the 200-600, well that's in a whole other price league too so I would expect its performance to be on another level :D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: wickidwombat on April 25, 2014, 11:18:42 PM
here are 3 sequential shots to demonstrate how well the AF in servo was holding lock I was using Zone AF case 2
on the 5Dmk3 VC was.

Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: wickidwombat on April 25, 2014, 11:38:27 PM
some more for the ferrari lovers and tamron @ 600mm critics
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Roo on April 26, 2014, 08:21:00 AM
some more for the ferrari lovers and tamron @ 600mm critics

Love that first shot clearly showing the tyres under load :)  nice detail around the rear wing and exhaust too.  great capture!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Stewart K on April 27, 2014, 03:47:56 AM
I'll be looking for a buyer for my Sigma 150-500 shortly simply to help fund a 100-400L, but I seem to always need long reach, and this Tammy is lookin gooood!!
I wonder if a 100-400L + 1.4xTCIII will have better IQ that the Tammy out at 600mm? anyone care to share experience on that subject to help a buyer out?????????
Great photos mate, you made Kimi look good in his Ferrari, lets face it, looking good's about all he's done with it so far  ;D
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on April 28, 2014, 09:35:31 PM
Nice images there. I'm surprised to read that the Tamron does not have a panning mode for its VC. That  sounds like a major omission considering the targeted market. I guess that was part of the cost-cutting required...
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on May 04, 2014, 08:54:21 PM
The wombat is back! Terrific shots, mate! On a side note, I hope these new cars sound better in person than they do on TV!

And yes, for capturing pan blurs of cars going around a track, the 5D3's AF is utterly amazing. Just to amuse myself, I played around with the auto 61-point selection instead of zone AF on the autocross yesterday. To my surprise, it worked just as well if not better than in zone AF mode. What a machine. Whenever the 5D4 comes out, unless it offers some substantial improvements, I think I might skip the next generation of the 5D series and stick with my Mark 3.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Graphix501 on May 24, 2014, 11:47:15 AM
First time posting here, got a few from last year at Silverstone as the 2014 circus hasn't quite got round to the UK yet...


All from general spectator areas with a 5Diii shooting through the fence with 400mm f5.6 (sometimes with old sigma 1.4x) at the GP or following young driver test...


(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/9335395545_c1367955a7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/fdWkRB)Susie Wolff (https://flic.kr/p/fdWkRB) by Fireproof Creative (https://www.flickr.com/people/38302740@N07/), on Flickr


(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3776/9184350478_cc534d2abe_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/eZAcqj)Rosberg (https://flic.kr/p/eZAcqj) by Fireproof Creative (https://www.flickr.com/people/38302740@N07/), on Flickr

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5510/9203535130_096b6410fb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/f2hwmb)Sebastian Vettel 2013 (https://flic.kr/p/f2hwmb) by Fireproof Creative (https://www.flickr.com/people/38302740@N07/), on Flickr

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3818/9335417697_c0b26f1df3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/fdWsrx)Felipe Massa (https://flic.kr/p/fdWsrx) by Fireproof Creative (https://www.flickr.com/people/38302740@N07/), on Flickr

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3794/9192962289_746fcd1e17_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/f1mkpP)Pic (https://flic.kr/p/f1mkpP) by Fireproof Creative (https://www.flickr.com/people/38302740@N07/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7301/9335880830_77e4b865a8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/fdYQ7A)Daniil Kvyat (https://flic.kr/p/fdYQ7A) by Fireproof Creative (https://www.flickr.com/people/38302740@N07/), on Flickr

My advice, as others have also said... Friday and Saturday are your best chance for freedom of movement....make sure you use it, don't camp out.

Also don't just focus on shooting from stands, although you may get clear of the catch fence you are also blighted with the dull prospect of shooting down on cars against grey tarmac (at the majority of circuits). Get down to the fence and use DOF to just shoot through it, you will get much better angles.

Despite what other people have said, I've found letting the camera make decisions for you is asking for trouble... manual selection, single point with expansion & ai servo in my experience does the best job.

Invest in a monopod to help your panning and stability, also works in retracted form when sitting in the stands so you have more control, unless you intend for photojournalistic shots, don't use a shutterspeed above about 1/400, you want at least a little blur in those wheels, if possible try and get under 1/100 to get the most impressive results (but be prepared to bin a lot)

Finally don't be too put off by all the folks with massive white lenses and premium bodies, the equipment helps but doest make a great image on its own. Older bodies with shorter lenses can still deliver decent images if you use your feet and eyes to seek out spots.

Canon 40D with a Sigma 100-300 F4 from the stands under heavy clouds
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7535447864_385c621bd7_h.jpg)

Sunday, enjoy the race :)



Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: V8Beast on May 26, 2014, 02:23:29 PM
First time posting here, got a few from last year at Silverstone as the 2014 circus hasn't quite got round to the UK yet...


All from general spectator areas with a 5Diii shooting through the fence with 400mm f5.6 (sometimes with old sigma 1.4x) at the GP or following young driver test...


Sunday, enjoy the race :)

Great shots! Last year's cars look so much better!
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: dhr90 on June 13, 2014, 02:33:42 PM
First time posting here, got a few from last year at Silverstone as the 2014 circus hasn't quite got round to the UK yet...


All from general spectator areas with a 5Diii shooting through the fence with 400mm f5.6 (sometimes with old sigma 1.4x) at the GP or following young driver test...

My advice, as others have also said... Friday and Saturday are your best chance for freedom of movement....make sure you use it, don't camp out.

Also don't just focus on shooting from stands, although you may get clear of the catch fence you are also blighted with the dull prospect of shooting down on cars against grey tarmac (at the majority of circuits). Get down to the fence and use DOF to just shoot through it, you will get much better angles.

Despite what other people have said, I've found letting the camera make decisions for you is asking for trouble... manual selection, single point with expansion & ai servo in my experience does the best job.

Invest in a monopod to help your panning and stability, also works in retracted form when sitting in the stands so you have more control, unless you intend for photojournalistic shots, don't use a shutterspeed above about 1/400, you want at least a little blur in those wheels, if possible try and get under 1/100 to get the most impressive results (but be prepared to bin a lot)

Finally don't be too put off by all the folks with massive white lenses and premium bodies, the equipment helps but doest make a great image on its own. Older bodies with shorter lenses can still deliver decent images if you use your feet and eyes to seek out spots.

Sunday, enjoy the race :)

Good shots there.

I can't attend the GP, but tempted to do the test on the wednesday this year, its just a shame that unless a lot of people turn up they won't allow spectators around the whole of the circuit which is putting me off the 3 hour drive each way.
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: Click on June 13, 2014, 03:06:20 PM
First time posting here, got a few from last year at Silverstone as the 2014 circus hasn't quite got round to the UK yet...


Great shots.  8)  Welcome to cr
Title: Re: F1 Photography Advice
Post by: IMG_0001 on June 13, 2014, 03:52:56 PM
First time posting here...

Nice images indeed, some are pretty dynamic.