canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS-M => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on November 11, 2013, 02:53:22 PM

Title: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Canon Rumors on November 11, 2013, 02:53:22 PM

Early 2014

The expected launch of the Canon EOS M2 appears to be happening in early 2014 according to a good source. The new camera won’t be much of a departure from the current EOS M, although it will be smaller and provide a better AF experience. It’s expected the 20mp sensor from the 70D will be present in the new camera.


Apparently this launch was delayed until the new year and was originally planned for August/September of 2013.


cr


Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: LuCoOc on November 11, 2013, 03:03:49 PM

[...] it will be smaller and provide a better AF experience. It’s expected the 20mp sensor from the 70D will be present in the new camera.</p>


Sounds good! Hopefully the also announce some new lenses along with it.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: bchernicoff on November 11, 2013, 03:12:08 PM
For the love of god, Canon. Stick the 70D sensor in a G1X style body with a good EVF and create some EF-M lenses with an aperture ring. There is no shame in copying Fuji when sales are falling. It...would...sell!
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: infared on November 11, 2013, 03:18:43 PM
I thought earlier reports suggested that the new M would have a VF?   Wonder if that is off the plate now?
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: LuCoOc on November 11, 2013, 03:29:48 PM
I thought earlier reports suggested that the new M would have a VF?   Wonder if that is off the plate now?

I'm sure Canon has different models ready or in the plans. However, they think the consumer market is bigger than the prosumer market. So no EVF this time.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: t.linn on November 11, 2013, 03:31:02 PM
Sony continues to innovate while Canon delays and underwhelms.  Hope this report is wrong.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: jebrady03 on November 11, 2013, 03:33:40 PM
Sony continues to innovate while Canon delays and underwhelms.  Hope this report is wrong.

Found your new home: http://www.+++++++++++.com/ (http://www.+++++++++++.com/)
Go play and have fun.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: lw on November 11, 2013, 03:43:03 PM
Smaller?
Why? How?
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: jebrady03 on November 11, 2013, 03:49:27 PM
Smaller?
Why? How?

Exactly my thought.  I'm hoping maybe that's a misinterpretation and perhaps they mean lighter.  The M could stand to lose a few ounces - it's like a brick!
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 11, 2013, 03:51:12 PM
I thought earlier reports suggested that the new M would have a VF?   Wonder if that is off the plate now?

I'm sure Canon has different models ready or in the plans. However, they think the consumer market is bigger than the prosumer market. So no EVF this time.

Fine by me.  EVF = bigger, and for me, smaller = better.  I like my M, I'll get the M2 and have an IR conversion done on my M.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: noncho on November 11, 2013, 03:55:23 PM
Smaller?
Why? How?

Exactly my thought.  I'm hoping maybe that's a misinterpretation and perhaps they mean lighter.  The M could stand to lose a few ounces - it's like a brick!

I would like to have a better/bigger grip, it won't make it too large.
I don't miss EVF ;)

P.S This system needs more small lens!
I personally would appreciate 40 or 50/2, 80 or 100/2
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: bholliman on November 11, 2013, 04:15:36 PM
Fine by me.  EVF = bigger, and for me, smaller = better.

+1, keep it small, forget the EVF.  Some additional EF-M lenses also please!
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: jebrady03 on November 11, 2013, 04:25:37 PM
Ideal system for me =

To me, all of that plus the EF-M 22/2 and 18-55 IS STM represents a VERY complete system for the VAST majority of people.  Anyone wanting anything beyond this would be well served by the EF to EF-M adapter.

To me, this is AWESOME and quite complete!

If they wanted to offer an optional EVF, that's fine too!
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: cnardo on November 11, 2013, 04:41:22 PM
Just got back from Italy with both the 5DIII and the EOS-M.... M was useful indoors and at night... but totally useless in daylight. EVF would be nice... how much bigger/heavier would it be????.... even a old style "range finder" would make it more useful in daylight. What am I missing????
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: drjlo on November 11, 2013, 04:47:49 PM

  • 35 f/2 IS STM
  • 50 or 60 f/2.8 IS STM macro


EF-M 35mm f/2 (preferably with IS) would get me excited  8)
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: brad-man on November 11, 2013, 04:51:56 PM
I just hope it comes in white...
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 11, 2013, 05:21:00 PM
Since Sony came out A7 series...I'm no longer getting excited about Canon M2.

I just don't see myself cancel my pre-order on A7 + Zeiss 55 for this ::)
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: infared on November 11, 2013, 05:22:07 PM
Just got back from Italy with both the 5DIII and the EOS-M.... M was useful indoors and at night... but totally useless in daylight. EVF would be nice... how much bigger/heavier would it be????.... even a old style "range finder" would make it more useful in daylight. What am I missing????

Correct...it is ( as is any camera) useless in daylight for any serious photography with no EVF...It would be great if it was just a decent quality clip-on VF... then the camera would not have to be any larger. Perhaps the comment above is on the Mark, that this camera is aimed at the consumer market and not meant for the enthusiast market.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on November 11, 2013, 05:56:39 PM
<p>Apparently this launch was delayed until the new year and was originally planned for August/September of 2013.</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>
[/html]

Putting the 70D-type AF in it should make a huge difference. It might sell now. Seems a shame to miss the holiday season though, very odd delay, as this is the sort of gear that actually might be more of a stocking stuffer than an L lens or 1 series body or the like.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: BL on November 11, 2013, 05:56:53 PM
The new camera won’t be much of a departure from the current EOS M, although it will be smaller and provide a better AF experience. It’s expected the 20mp sensor from the 70D will be present in the new camera.</p>

smaller and better AF?  sign me up, i'll take two.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: dufflover on November 11, 2013, 06:01:30 PM
Only the recent price changes really got the EOS-M moving, as a cheap and relatively compact APS-C camera. Since the AF technology in the 70D came out it was always a given it'd be useful here in the next M, but I doubt the price is going to be hardly reasonable.

When priced back up to other mirrorless options it is back to being a meh-non-option.

Sizewise the issue really is the lens bulge (which you can't do much about ...) rather than the body size.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Woody on November 11, 2013, 06:11:50 PM
There is no shame in copying Fuji when sales are falling. It...would...sell!

And make sales fall even further! LOL. You forgot Fuji is selling poorly and has nearly non-existent market shares.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on November 11, 2013, 06:12:29 PM
might sell a few copies if they bring it at USD 299,- right at launch this time.

Me? No buy. Me wants FF sensor and EVF. :-)
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: eml58 on November 11, 2013, 06:18:47 PM
have an IR conversion done on my M.

Excellent idea, I did this to one of my 5DMK II's, I think all round it would work better on the M.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: AvTvM on November 11, 2013, 06:34:56 PM
if Canon again "forgets" to put a grip on the EOS-M II, you Mr. Franiec might come to the rescue. Grip for the current EOS-M can be had now: http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/franiec-grips.html (http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/franiec-grips.html)
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: WPJ on November 11, 2013, 06:46:21 PM
Why do they keep making them,smaller....gesh you can hardly hold the M now if you have small hands..
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Bob Howland on November 11, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
Canon could do a lot worse than introducing something like the Panasonic GM1, except better, assuming they also (simultaneously?) introduced something like/better than the Panasonic GX7 or GH3.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Vagabondman on November 11, 2013, 06:49:49 PM
Yawn! Wake me up when they slap a FF chip in one of these puppies.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 11, 2013, 06:52:13 PM
Why do they keep making them,smaller....gesh you can hardly hold the M now if you have small hands..

What is the number #1 reason to buy mirrorless again?

Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Famateur on November 11, 2013, 07:00:35 PM
Perhaps the comment above is on the Mark, that this camera is aimed at the consumer market and not meant for the enthusiast market.

That's what I'm thinking. The point-and-shoot market is withering away, and with it, the revenue that drives development of the DSLR line. As camera phones continue to improve in quality and saturate the market, Canon might be looking to position consumer-level mirrorless cameras as the new point-and-shoot equivalent. The image quality easily beats camera phones (for now), and interchangeable lenses will make consumers feel a clear separation between phone and camera.

For enthusiasts and pros, this might seem disappointing, but if this is actually the strategy, we should all hope it's wildly successful -- for the sake of funding new technology in DSLRs (and maybe someday, pro-level mirrorless).
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 11, 2013, 07:06:41 PM
might sell a few copies if they bring it at USD 299,- right at launch this time.

Me? No buy. Me wants FF sensor and EVF. :-)

It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: paul13walnut5 on November 11, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
might sell a few copies if they bring it at USD 299,- right at launch this time.

Me? No buy. Me wants FF sensor and EVF. :-)

It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

And your canon lenses can even be adapted to you, if the mountain won't come to mohammed...
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: RobertP on November 11, 2013, 07:47:04 PM
It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

I have Canon lenses and flashguns.  I'd like something easier to carry around than the 50D + 17-55 but I don't want to build another collection from scratch.  I'll probably end up with an M2 for portability and a second hand 7D for action shots.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Zv on November 11, 2013, 08:18:40 PM
The current M + 22mm almost fits in your pocket, I'm wondering by making it smaller will it be compact enough to slip into your jeans when walking around??

With a much faster AF this could be the perfect walkaround camera. Just hope we see a telephoto lens for it. Like a 55 - 200mm would be perfect.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 11, 2013, 09:49:22 PM
It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

I have Canon lenses and flashguns.  I'd like something easier to carry around than the 50D + 17-55 but I don't want to build another collection from scratch.  I'll probably end up with an M2 for portability and a second hand 7D for action shots.

What do you know about m2?

If you plan to shoot M2 with EF-s lenses then why not shoot with 50D with EF-S. Big EF-S lenses on tiny mirrorless, that would take away primary purpose of mirrorless.

Assuming Canon going to release more pancakes like the 22mm to support their mirrorless system, then buying Canon mirrorless lenses is same as buying A7 + Zeiss  ::)

I'll take A7 FF mirrorles and Zeiss lenses in this case ;)


Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: dufflover on November 11, 2013, 09:53:09 PM
The current M + 22mm almost fits in your pocket, I'm wondering by making it smaller will it be compact enough to slip into your jeans when walking around??

With a much faster AF this could be the perfect walkaround camera. Just hope we see a telephoto lens for it. Like a 55 - 200mm would be perfect.

I'd like to happen as well but what can they do? The only thing stopping it is the lens bulge from the 22mm which by design you can't get rid of. Sounds like we both would've preferred something like the Ricoh GR or Nikon Coolpix A, but they are only thin because of the inbuilt retractable lens. That can't exactly happen with the EOS-M either. Don't get me wrong, I realise those example cameras are twice the price so I wouldn't buy them lol.

might sell a few copies if they bring it at USD 299,- right at launch this time.

Me? No buy. Me wants FF sensor and EVF. :-)

It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

lol it's just a CR habit to post an unrealistic wishlist  ;)
Smart thing would be to whinge about it AND get the camera that actually fits the bill.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: kjay84 on November 11, 2013, 10:09:19 PM
It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

I have Canon lenses and flashguns.  I'd like something easier to carry around than the 50D + 17-55 but I don't want to build another collection from scratch.  I'll probably end up with an M2 for portability and a second hand 7D for action shots.

What do you know about m2?

If you plan to shoot M2 with EF-s lenses then why not shoot with 50D with EF-S. Big EF-S lenses on tiny mirrorless, that would take away primary purpose of mirrorless.

Assuming Canon going to release more pancakes like the 22mm to support their mirrorless system, then buying Canon mirrorless lenses is same as buying A7 + Zeiss  ::)

I'll take A7 FF mirrorles and Zeiss lenses in this case ;)

If the A7 and Zeiss combination was the same price as an EOS M2 plus the lens then it would be an easy choice.    The A7 would probably be around 3 times as expensive as an M2 (If the intro price is the same as the M1).  Judging from the original post the A7 may be outside the price range.  For me I've been considering picking up the first generation EOS M since it's been so heavily discounted.  If it was still around the original price I wouldn't even consider it.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 11, 2013, 10:34:17 PM
It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

I have Canon lenses and flashguns.  I'd like something easier to carry around than the 50D + 17-55 but I don't want to build another collection from scratch.  I'll probably end up with an M2 for portability and a second hand 7D for action shots.

What do you know about m2?

If you plan to shoot M2 with EF-s lenses then why not shoot with 50D with EF-S. Big EF-S lenses on tiny mirrorless, that would take away primary purpose of mirrorless.

Assuming Canon going to release more pancakes like the 22mm to support their mirrorless system, then buying Canon mirrorless lenses is same as buying A7 + Zeiss  ::)

I'll take A7 FF mirrorles and Zeiss lenses in this case ;)

If the A7 and Zeiss combination was the same price as an EOS M2 plus the lens then it would be an easy choice.    The A7 would probably be around 3 times as expensive as an M2 (If the intro price is the same as the M1).  Judging from the original post the A7 may be outside the price range.  For me I've been considering picking up the first generation EOS M since it's been so heavily discounted.  If it was still around the original price I wouldn't even consider it.
Buy what you can afford. I use m as p&s shoot camera at work. I got a7 + zeiss 55mm on pre order for family everyday photos. 
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on November 11, 2013, 10:59:44 PM
I got a7 + zeiss 55mm on pre order for family everyday photos.

I use a 1D X + 24-70/2.8L II for those...
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 12, 2013, 12:15:53 AM
I got a7 + zeiss 55mm on pre order for family everyday photos.

I use a 1D X + 24-70/2.8L II for those...
If a7 works out as I planned, I might end up with just one 5d iii, 135,  70-200. Slowly switching to FF mirrorless. No need 12fps for every day photos. I do need high iso from ff. Better dr is a huge plus for landscape and pull up shadow shots
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: sdfreeland on November 12, 2013, 12:39:26 AM
might sell a few copies if they bring it at USD 299,- right at launch this time.

Me? No buy. Me wants FF sensor and EVF. :-)

It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

But will it have better autofocus.  Sony is great about pushing out advanced electronics but they are slow at pushing out lenses too.  It's been that way since they bought Minolta.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: BL on November 12, 2013, 03:12:29 AM
But will it have better autofocus... 

have you used the EOS M?  is there anywhere else to go but up haha?

all else being the same, if they slapped the 70D sensor and AF tech into the mk II, something tells me it would still be a significant improvement over the current gen M
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: jd7 on November 12, 2013, 06:28:45 AM
If a7 works out as I planned, I might end up with just one 5d iii, 135,  70-200. Slowly switching to FF mirrorless. No need 12fps for every day photos. I do need high iso from ff. Better dr is a huge plus for landscape and pull up shadow shots

Umm, well, if you believe DxO (and I'm not saying you necessarily should, but of course it's the oft quoted reference) the 5DIII and 6D have more DR than the D800 sensor (which seems likely to be a good guide for the a7r sensor doesn't it?) by ISO3200 so ...
 :)

In fact, you can mount an argument that Canon LEADS the race in sensor tech, or at least the race for DR.  You just have to focus on higher ISOs (which isn't necessarily unreasonable depending on what you shoot).  There, that ought to stir up a few people!!   :o

Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: eric_ykchan on November 12, 2013, 07:00:54 AM
Maybe Canon needs to delay M again as we will have NEX 7 successor next year  ;D
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: traveller on November 12, 2013, 07:01:49 AM
Anyone else sort of get the impression that the EOS-M is a camera than Canon thinks it needs to produce, rather than one it really wants to make? A competent (early AF issues aside) but thoroughly unremarkable camera that fields only three lenses, one of which isn't even available in North America...

The EOS-M looks like a sop to the sales department, who kept on banging on about the growth of mirrorless and declining compact camera sales in board meetings. I think Canon are hoping to tempt compact camera upgraders with the basic kit, flog them the 22mm f/2 when they realise it's too big to be pocketable with the 18-55mm zoom, then sell them the EF mount adaptor when they want a tele-zoom and find there are none available. At this point you have EOS-M owners who have bough into the regular lens line and can be upgraded to Canon DSLRs. This would be a great plan if Canon had got there first; now all the other camera manufacturers are busy flooding the market with full compact systems, Canon's reputation is not enough to sell EOS-M.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: RobertP on November 12, 2013, 07:14:43 AM
It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

I have Canon lenses and flashguns.  I'd like something easier to carry around than the 50D + 17-55 but I don't want to build another collection from scratch.  I'll probably end up with an M2 for portability and a second hand 7D for action shots.

What do you know about m2?

If you plan to shoot M2 with EF-s lenses then why not shoot with 50D with EF-S. Big EF-S lenses on tiny mirrorless, that would take away primary purpose of mirrorless.

Assuming Canon going to release more pancakes like the 22mm to support their mirrorless system, then buying Canon mirrorless lenses is same as buying A7 + Zeiss  ::)

I'll take A7 FF mirrorles and Zeiss lenses in this case ;)
I only know what's been speculated about the m2 hence the use of the word probably. I would get the 22mm pancake for use as the default walkabout option and the EF adaptor for compatability with my existing lenses. Mirrorless isn't the same as small lenses. I doubt that an A7 with the 24-70 is smaller or lighter than my existing setup so it would end up as an even more expensive paperweight.
The sun is shining in Bath today but I don't have my camera with me because its too bulky and heavy to carry around all the time. I'd like FF and DR and versatility and portability but I'm going to have to compromise.

I'm guessing that the M2 will have the sensor and articulated screen from the 70D. If its less well spec'ced then I'll have to rethink.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 12, 2013, 09:23:02 AM
might sell a few copies if they bring it at USD 299,- right at launch this time.

Me? No buy. Me wants FF sensor and EVF. :-)

It calls Sony A7 & A7R. Better sensor & better EVF. You being asking for this long time - WHY WAIT for Canon. I don't get it ::)

But will it have better autofocus.  Sony is great about pushing out advanced electronics but they are slow at pushing out lenses too.  It's been that way since they bought Minolta.

I haven't hand-on A7 yet, therefore, I don't have the answer.

However, as an owner of RX1, AF speed is much-much faster compared to current M. Sony claimed A7 AF speed is even faster than RX1.

Don't worry, I'll keep you guys updated this coming Christmas.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Dylan777 on November 12, 2013, 09:27:34 AM
If a7 works out as I planned, I might end up with just one 5d iii, 135,  70-200. Slowly switching to FF mirrorless. No need 12fps for every day photos. I do need high iso from ff. Better dr is a huge plus for landscape and pull up shadow shots

Umm, well, if you believe DxO (and I'm not saying you necessarily should, but of course it's the oft quoted reference) the 5DIII and 6D have more DR than the D800 sensor (which seems likely to be a good guide for the a7r sensor doesn't it?) by ISO3200 so ...
 :)

In fact, you can mount an argument that Canon LEADS the race in sensor tech, or at least the race for DR.  You just have to focus on higher ISOs (which isn't necessarily unreasonable depending on what you shoot).  There, that ought to stir up a few people!!   :o

I don't buy my camera gear based on DxO crap(to be honest, I don't even understand how they do their testing)

About DR, the "true" hurt ;D
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: fxk on November 12, 2013, 10:46:51 AM
No EVF?  What a COLOSSAL waste!  P&S vs enthusiast?  How much could it cost to provide an OPTIONAL evf.  The camera has tons of possibilities and I like mine, but is useless at arms length.  Delkin used to make a pyramid-shaped device with an eyepiece to see the rear screens when they small.  That would be better than no eye level vf.  Ugh.

I din't know if it is the engineers or the marketeers, but they are proving to be absolute morons.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: onepremiere on November 12, 2013, 03:01:24 PM
So I just acquired a EOS M over weekend, of course it showed up AFTER returning home from the trip that justified the purchase! Grrr. Anyway, I've been dying to get my hands on this camera for sometime now. I've been shooting for about 8 years now and always wanted an alternative to lugging around L-Glass and a Full Size DSLR Body. I was waiting to see what Canon was going to do with the next version of the M before I bought one, unfortunately my patience expired. I am still within the 30-days to return the camera, so I've turned to CR for advice. I understand everything is speculation at this point, but from those of you who own this camera, should I hang on to it? Will the update be that significant?

 I am thrilled about the images it produces and how easy it is to use. It is just lacking a few things, like a viewfinder. I found myself bring the camera up to my face a few times.

Bottom line; to keep or not to keep and restart my patience clock.  :-[

Cheers,

-Jeff

Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Maximilian on November 12, 2013, 03:05:14 PM
The expected launch of the Canon EOS M2 appears to be happening in early 2014 according to a good source.
pitty, they miss the holiday season. they seem to have problems again. delay, delay, delay...

Quote
The new camera won’t be much of a departure from the current EOS M, although it will be smaller
It can get smaller and lighter, as long, as you can still hold it well with attached tele lens.
I didn't feel comfortable, when I tried the actual EOS M. So I have doubts.

Quote
and provide a better AF experience.
It has to. Otherwise...

Quote
It’s expected the 20mp sensor from the 70D will be present in the new camera.
that's logical and necessary for the better AF.

Quote
Apparently this launch was delayed until the new year and was originally planned for August/September of 2013.
would be nice to see, what happens behind the scenes.

Seeing Canon going into the 2013 holiday season with nothing new but a white painted xxxD/rebel/kiss ...  :'(
Oh wait, there are some cine lenses  ;D  :'(
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Random Orbits on November 12, 2013, 04:00:45 PM
So I just acquired a EOS M over weekend, of course it showed up AFTER returning home from the trip that justified the purchase! Grrr. Anyway, I've been dying to get my hands on this camera for sometime now. I've been shooting for about 8 years now and always wanted an alternative to lugging around L-Glass and a Full Size DSLR Body. I was waiting to see what Canon was going to do with the next version of the M before I bought one, unfortunately my patience expired. I am still within the 30-days to return the camera, so I've turned to CR for advice. I understand everything is speculation at this point, but from those of you who own this camera, should I hang on to it? Will the update be that significant?

 I am thrilled about the images it produces and how easy it is to use. It is just lacking a few things, like a viewfinder. I found myself bring the camera up to my face a few times.

Bottom line; to keep or not to keep and restart my patience clock.  :-[

Cheers,

-Jeff

Really, it comes down to how you use it, so the answer is that "it depends."  Mine replaced a powershot 230, so it represented a large increase in IQ.  My wife uses it primarily, and I use it for quick snapshots if the DSLR isn't handy.  Really like it with the 22 f/2 (especially indoors/when the light is dim), while the wife prefers the 18-55.  I got the adaptor so it can serve as a backup to the DSLR, but I've yet to use it much with EF lenses.  I also got a 230EX for the wife, which barely has enough power to bounce off ceilings (skipped the smaller 90EX) but works well enough for what it is.

So what would M2 give me?  It won't affect resale value much given that I got the M + 22 f/2 for 300.  I don't do video much, so the main advantage of a 70D sensor is minimized.  Otherwise, the IQ will be similar and the M2 will cost a lot more than the M does not when it launches.  If I need better AF or high ISO performance, I'll be grabbing the DSLR anyway.

So, if you will use it similar to how we use ours, then keep it.  The M2 will still have the EF-M mount, so any lenses you get now for it will still have value.  The thing to keep in mind with consumer lines is that they get refreshed often.  The newest and greatest will always cost the most, but wait a year and prices drop significantly when the newer model appears.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: dufflover on November 12, 2013, 05:29:04 PM
You would've had to "learn" how to use a DSLR and Canon controls.
Seriously learning to use an EVF is not that hard. You don't make the same dumb move with your phone camera doubt you would if someone handed you their S110 or whatever. Stop thinking it's a camera which it is not and you'll probably find it much easier to handle shooting with the LCD.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Zv on November 12, 2013, 09:20:05 PM
So I just acquired a EOS M over weekend, of course it showed up AFTER returning home from the trip that justified the purchase! Grrr. Anyway, I've been dying to get my hands on this camera for sometime now. I've been shooting for about 8 years now and always wanted an alternative to lugging around L-Glass and a Full Size DSLR Body. I was waiting to see what Canon was going to do with the next version of the M before I bought one, unfortunately my patience expired. I am still within the 30-days to return the camera, so I've turned to CR for advice. I understand everything is speculation at this point, but from those of you who own this camera, should I hang on to it? Will the update be that significant?

 I am thrilled about the images it produces and how easy it is to use. It is just lacking a few things, like a viewfinder. I found myself bring the camera up to my face a few times.

Bottom line; to keep or not to keep and restart my patience clock.  :-[

Cheers,

-Jeff

Keep. You seem happy with it. The new M could be several months away and then when it does come out it'll be more expensive than the current one. You'll get used to the "bringing the camera up to your eye" thing after about a week. I think a VF would just make the shape an size of the M strange. It's got the whole compact thing going for it, I like that people think it's just a P&S as it attracts less attention.

Use the current M as much as you can now and if the new one appears make your decision then (when you can use hard facts and specs to decide rather than speculation and BS). If you decide to upgrade just sell the old one. Overall you won't lose much but you'll have gained more in terms of pictures taken and experience with a mirrorless camera.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Proffarm on November 12, 2013, 09:37:15 PM
So I just acquired a EOS M over weekend, of course it showed up AFTER returning home from the trip that justified the purchase! Grrr. Anyway, I've been dying to get my hands on this camera for sometime now. I've been shooting for about 8 years now and always wanted an alternative to lugging around L-Glass and a Full Size DSLR Body. I was waiting to see what Canon was going to do with the next version of the M before I bought one, unfortunately my patience expired. I am still within the 30-days to return the camera, so I've turned to CR for advice. I understand everything is speculation at this point, but from those of you who own this camera, should I hang on to it? Will the update be that significant?

 I am thrilled about the images it produces and how easy it is to use. It is just lacking a few things, like a viewfinder. I found myself bring the camera up to my face a few times.

Bottom line; to keep or not to keep and restart my patience clock.  :-[

Cheers,

-Jeff

The EOS M has been, without a doubt, the most 'fun' purchase I've made in years. I got into photography as a kid, and it has been a hobby that I've day dreamed would turn into a legitimate profession for probably 20+ years. Like most of us though, I've always known that the day dream is just that-something to think about while paying the bills with reality. I had point and shoots for a very long time until I bought my first SLR-a Nikon N70, or something like that. It was great..except I never used it. I was too intimidated, and I felt like I didn't deserve it based on lack on knowledge/skill. It just sat in it's case, pristine and unused. It wasn't until I was overseas when I bought my first digital camera. It was an Olympus point and shoot, and it cost roughly $300 (this was in 2004). I learned more about photography from that camera than I ever did anywhere else. It was a point and shoot with a lot of manual control features. Exposure, in camera filters, ISO and shutter speed. Thing was bad ass because it let me make tons of mistakes and get creative while never having to worry that somebody else would see my lack of talent. So it got me back into the realm of wanting something more, bigger, faster, stronger. So I came back from my deployment and bought a Canon 20D. I worshiped that thing. And in 4 years probably took like 20 pictures... Once again the stupid camera intimidated me and I never used it. Stupid and pathetic, but it's true. I even upgraded to the 40D, hoping to jumpstart my dreams and overcome insecurities-but that didn't work. It sat there, like a piece of the cross, never touched and often whispered about.

Marriage, good career and 2 kids later I got an iPhone 5 and it was like meeting a long lost friend. I was back in, and this time I knew it was just for fun, and that I was not a DSLR type of person. But i still wanted something 'more'. So in random internet searching I stumbled across the EOS M and absolutely KNEW that this was what I had been looking for. Not the camera specifically, but the mirrorless ILC systems. The problem was that I had a smart wife that had seen my 40D sit there, lonely and unfulfilled for so long. So justifying a 1400$ purchase for the Olympus OMD or PEN, or the Fuji camera options was like asking if I could go to Vegas and blow a couple grand on poker and booze-not happening. Then the fire sale in July happened and it's been like I am a kid in Disneyland since then. I take it everywhere and shoot everything. I understand it's limitations, and all the gripes I've read here and elsewhere-but one thing hasn't changed about my feeling for it. It's dang fun.

So to keep it or not... I know that when/if the new one comes out I'm going to buy it without a second thought, but oh man, I'm going to use the hell out of my EOS M while waiting...

It's up to you bud, but I love mine. 
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: onepremiere on November 13, 2013, 10:45:26 AM
The EOS M has been, without a doubt, the most 'fun' purchase I've made in years. I got into photography as a kid, and it has been a hobby that I've day dreamed would turn into a legitimate profession for probably 20+ years. Like most of us though, I've always known that the day dream is just that-something to think about while paying the bills with reality. I had point and shoots for a very long time until I bought my first SLR-a Nikon N70, or something like that. It was great..except I never used it. I was too intimidated, and I felt like I didn't deserve it based on lack on knowledge/skill. It just sat in it's case, pristine and unused. It wasn't until I was overseas when I bought my first digital camera. It was an Olympus point and shoot, and it cost roughly $300 (this was in 2004). I learned more about photography from that camera than I ever did anywhere else. It was a point and shoot with a lot of manual control features. Exposure, in camera filters, ISO and shutter speed. Thing was bad ass because it let me make tons of mistakes and get creative while never having to worry that somebody else would see my lack of talent. So it got me back into the realm of wanting something more, bigger, faster, stronger. So I came back from my deployment and bought a Canon 20D. I worshiped that thing. And in 4 years probably took like 20 pictures... Once again the stupid camera intimidated me and I never used it. Stupid and pathetic, but it's true. I even upgraded to the 40D, hoping to jumpstart my dreams and overcome insecurities-but that didn't work. It sat there, like a piece of the cross, never touched and often whispered about.

Marriage, good career and 2 kids later I got an iPhone 5 and it was like meeting a long lost friend. I was back in, and this time I knew it was just for fun, and that I was not a DSLR type of person. But i still wanted something 'more'. So in random internet searching I stumbled across the EOS M and absolutely KNEW that this was what I had been looking for. Not the camera specifically, but the mirrorless ILC systems. The problem was that I had a smart wife that had seen my 40D sit there, lonely and unfulfilled for so long. So justifying a 1400$ purchase for the Olympus OMD or PEN, or the Fuji camera options was like asking if I could go to Vegas and blow a couple grand on poker and booze-not happening. Then the fire sale in July happened and it's been like I am a kid in Disneyland since then. I take it everywhere and shoot everything. I understand it's limitations, and all the gripes I've read here and elsewhere-but one thing hasn't changed about my feeling for it. It's dang fun.

So to keep it or not... I know that when/if the new one comes out I'm going to buy it without a second thought, but oh man, I'm going to use the hell out of my EOS M while waiting...

It's up to you bud, but I love mine. 

Keep. You seem happy with it. The new M could be several months away and then when it does come out it'll be more expensive than the current one. You'll get used to the "bringing the camera up to your eye" thing after about a week. I think a VF would just make the shape an size of the M strange. It's got the whole compact thing going for it, I like that people think it's just a P&S as it attracts less attention.

Use the current M as much as you can now and if the new one appears make your decision then (when you can use hard facts and specs to decide rather than speculation and BS). If you decide to upgrade just sell the old one. Overall you won't lose much but you'll have gained more in terms of pictures taken and experience with a mirrorless camera.

Really, it comes down to how you use it, so the answer is that "it depends."  Mine replaced a powershot 230, so it represented a large increase in IQ.  My wife uses it primarily, and I use it for quick snapshots if the DSLR isn't handy.  Really like it with the 22 f/2 (especially indoors/when the light is dim), while the wife prefers the 18-55.  I got the adaptor so it can serve as a backup to the DSLR, but I've yet to use it much with EF lenses.  I also got a 230EX for the wife, which barely has enough power to bounce off ceilings (skipped the smaller 90EX) but works well enough for what it is.

So what would M2 give me?  It won't affect resale value much given that I got the M + 22 f/2 for 300.  I don't do video much, so the main advantage of a 70D sensor is minimized.  Otherwise, the IQ will be similar and the M2 will cost a lot more than the M does not when it launches.  If I need better AF or high ISO performance, I'll be grabbing the DSLR anyway.

So, if you will use it similar to how we use ours, then keep it.  The M2 will still have the EF-M mount, so any lenses you get now for it will still have value.  The thing to keep in mind with consumer lines is that they get refreshed often.  The newest and greatest will always cost the most, but wait a year and prices drop significantly when the newer model appears.

Wow, first off thank you to everyone for your detailed responses. There were numerous situations I did not consider. I really appreciate it.

The more I play with it, the more I love it. It takes me back to the day I bought my first DSLR. I can't argue with the low light capabilities as some of you mentioned above, it's good and seems I am always stuck in a low light situation.

Another mentioned there wife using the camera. Spot on, my girlfriend picked it up and was taking some great photos within a few minutes, and she has trouble operating door handles sometimes! Lol.

So you've all convinced me. I am going to hang onto it, because at the end of the day it's just like everything else; or like an apple product, something new is released every 6 months.

Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: sdsr on November 13, 2013, 03:01:44 PM
No EVF?  What a COLOSSAL waste!  P&S vs enthusiast?  How much could it cost to provide an OPTIONAL evf.  The camera has tons of possibilities and I like mine, but is useless at arms length.  Delkin used to make a pyramid-shaped device with an eyepiece to see the rear screens when they small.  That would be better than no eye level vf.  Ugh.

I din't know if it is the engineers or the marketeers, but they are proving to be absolute morons.

I've no idea what an optional evf would cost Canon to make, but the excellent one Olympus makes for some of its m43 bodies sells for c. $400 (evidently it's the same as the evf in the new OMD EM1, which is state of the art for now).  As for the M, I was lucky enough to sell mine for more than I paid for it - even though that was a mere $300, it was too much for the annoyance generated by using it. 
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: fxk on November 13, 2013, 03:46:17 PM
No EVF?  What a COLOSSAL waste!  P&S vs enthusiast?  How much could it cost to provide an OPTIONAL evf.  The camera has tons of possibilities and I like mine, but is useless at arms length.  Delkin used to make a pyramid-shaped device with an eyepiece to see the rear screens when they small.  That would be better than no eye level vf.  Ugh.

I din't know if it is the engineers or the marketeers, but they are proving to be absolute morons.

I've no idea what an optional evf would cost Canon to make, but the excellent one Olympus makes for some of its m43 bodies sells for c. $400 (evidently it's the same as the evf in the new OMD EM1, which is state of the art for now).  As for the M, I was lucky enough to sell mine for more than I paid for it - even though that was a mere $300, it was too much for the annoyance generated by using it.

I'm not interested in dumping my "M". Size is perfect for my travels.   I am happy with the images, HATE touch screen (got no place to hold the damn thing w/o changing something).  Eye level viewfinder would help.  At least make the new M with the ability to take an EVF. 
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: bholliman on November 13, 2013, 03:52:58 PM
I'll take A7 FF mirrorles and Zeiss lenses in this case ;)
I doubt that an A7 with the 24-70 is smaller or lighter than my existing setup so it would end up as an even more expensive paperweight.

+1

An A7 or any FF mirrorless camera is still going to require large, bulky lenses once you move beyond a few small primes in the wide to normal range.  FF Mirrorless systems are a great (and very expensive...) portable option if you want something limited like an RX1 with its fixed lens or an A7 with a small prime. 

But, when you move into the full system arena, they lose almost all of the mirrorless size advantage since the lenses are the same size as DSLR lenses.  Unless you plan to just use the A7 with small primes, you need to invest in a full system of Sony or Zeiss lenses (UWA, 24-70 zoom, 70-200 zoom, 200+ tele, fast primes).  At that point, what have you gained over a 5D3 or D800 and compliment of Canon or Nikon lenses?  A few hundred grams in camera body weight?  What are you giving up to save those few hundred grams of weight?  Quite a bit in my opinion given the lack of native E-mount lenses and Sony's dubious record of changing lens mount systems every few years.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#487.392,380.294,ga,t (http://camerasize.com/compact/#487.392,380.294,ga,t)
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: garyalan24@yahoo.com on December 02, 2013, 01:20:48 PM
Smaller is not needed, IMO. Make it a little bit bigger so an EF mount can be used on it as well as a larger battery using a side door instead of the bottom door.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on December 02, 2013, 01:34:43 PM
Smaller is not needed, IMO. Make it a little bit bigger so an EF mount can be used on it

They did that…it's called the SL1/100D. 
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Mellonhead on December 02, 2013, 02:36:17 PM
Just read the proposed specs from the 'Runours' section.  I'm happy they kept what I like about the 'M'; the small size and the touch-screen. They added what I wanted; better sensor and even faster auto-focus.  And, they kept off of it what I thought it never needed; the view finder.

Good choices, Canon!
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: fxk on December 03, 2013, 10:28:23 AM
For the love of god, Canon. Stick the 70D sensor in a G1X style body with a good EVF and create some EF-M lenses with an aperture ring. There is no shame in copying Fuji when sales are falling. It...would...sell!

It's confirmed.  Canon are clueless morons.  I'd ask what they were thinking, but that would be arguing facts not in evidence.

I'm actually happy this appears to be a not-US-bound camera. 

Is my profound disappointment showing?
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: sanj on December 03, 2013, 11:43:55 AM
I got a7 + zeiss 55mm on pre order for family everyday photos.

I use a 1D X + 24-70/2.8L II for those...

You both are killing it! :)
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: zlatko on December 03, 2013, 01:34:51 PM
For the love of god, Canon. Stick the 70D sensor in a G1X style body with a good EVF and create some EF-M lenses with an aperture ring. There is no shame in copying Fuji when sales are falling. It...would...sell!

It's confirmed.  Canon are clueless morons.  I'd ask what they were thinking, but that would be arguing facts not in evidence.

I'm actually happy this appears to be a not-US-bound camera. 

Is my profound disappointment showing?

Canon makes an incredible variety of cameras and lenses, for all sorts of applications, skill levels and budgets.  But even with this diverse product line, they don't make every possible product that someone might want or imagine.  So when some anonymous person feels they haven't built the camera that he personally desires, he will publicly berate them as "clueless morons".
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: dickgrafixstop on December 03, 2013, 02:07:14 PM
I was disappointed in the projected specs of the "new" M2. My wife is delighted, she's already spending the
money I was going to save for the "new and improved" Canon M.  Maybe version 3 will have some appeal.
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: fxk on December 05, 2013, 12:31:32 PM
For the love of god, Canon. Stick the 70D sensor in a G1X style body with a good EVF and create some EF-M lenses with an aperture ring. There is no shame in copying Fuji when sales are falling. It...would...sell!

It's confirmed.  Canon are clueless morons.  I'd ask what they were thinking, but that would be arguing facts not in evidence.

I'm actually happy this appears to be a not-US-bound camera. 

Is my profound disappointment showing?

Canon makes an incredible variety of cameras and lenses, for all sorts of applications, skill levels and budgets.  But even with this diverse product line, they don't make every possible product that someone might want or imagine.  So when some anonymous person feels they haven't built the camera that he personally desires, he will publicly berate them as "clueless morons".

You're correct on all counts.  I'm anonymous and I'm berating Canon.  Probabyl because it takes a moron to recognize another moron. It's my duty as a moron to call them out.   But enough about me...
 
Canon has a very long history of doing what they darn well please model after model ignoring pleas from pros and amateurs alike for features that would make the photographing experience better yet make no sense to the design engineers.

Magic Lantern has unlocked a lot of capabilities of various camera models, yet Canon engineers don't see those as good things to add.

I'm not saying Canon has cornered the market on being deaf to consumers, but they're fighting hard for the spot.  I've been with Canon over 10 years, and  they have been so close to perfection, many, many times... and if they had only listened to some of their customers.   I've seen their innate ability to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory time and time again.

As for a camera I "personally desire", check the thread again.  I'm FAR from alone on what I consider necessary upgrades (or at least options, for the love of God), and to be a reasonable response to the competition.
Canon is the big dog on the block, far larger than Nikon or Fuji, but they insist on playing the game of being the  Great Dane nipping at a Chihuahua's heels.

As far as the M2, they shouldn't have bothered at all. They should have taken the money and sent their engineers to "consumer sensitivity rehabilitation".  At least there would be some hope for the other camera lines.  Nothing new here.  Move along...
Title: Re: The Next EOS M in 2014 [CR2]
Post by: Zv on December 05, 2013, 09:17:07 PM
For the love of god, Canon. Stick the 70D sensor in a G1X style body with a good EVF and create some EF-M lenses with an aperture ring. There is no shame in copying Fuji when sales are falling. It...would...sell!

It's confirmed.  Canon are clueless morons.  I'd ask what they were thinking, but that would be arguing facts not in evidence.

I'm actually happy this appears to be a not-US-bound camera. 

Is my profound disappointment showing?

Canon makes an incredible variety of cameras and lenses, for all sorts of applications, skill levels and budgets.  But even with this diverse product line, they don't make every possible product that someone might want or imagine.  So when some anonymous person feels they haven't built the camera that he personally desires, he will publicly berate them as "clueless morons".

You're correct on all counts.  I'm anonymous and I'm berating Canon.  Probabyl because it takes a moron to recognize another moron. It's my duty as a moron to call them out.   But enough about me...
 
Canon has a very long history of doing what they darn well please model after model ignoring pleas from pros and amateurs alike for features that would make the photographing experience better yet make no sense to the design engineers.

Magic Lantern has unlocked a lot of capabilities of various camera models, yet Canon engineers don't see those as good things to add.

I'm not saying Canon has cornered the market on being deaf to consumers, but they're fighting hard for the spot.  I've been with Canon over 10 years, and  they have been so close to perfection, many, many times... and if they had only listened to some of their customers.   I've seen their innate ability to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory time and time again.

As for a camera I "personally desire", check the thread again.  I'm FAR from alone on what I consider necessary upgrades (or at least options, for the love of God), and to be a reasonable response to the competition.
Canon is the big dog on the block, far larger than Nikon or Fuji, but they insist on playing the game of being the  Great Dane nipping at a Chihuahua's heels.

As far as the M2, they shouldn't have bothered at all. They should have taken the money and sent their engineers to "consumer sensitivity rehabilitation".  At least there would be some hope for the other camera lines.  Nothing new here.  Move along...

I don't think they spent all that much on the M2 looking at the specs! Develop cost is very low - same body design, same sensor tech, same processor, same screen. Just chucked in Wifi and improved the software. I think M2 was about maximizing profits with what the already had.

We are all disappointed to some extent but I wouldn't go as far as calling them morons! They're making money aren't they? They gotta be doin somethin right then!

A point about those features unlocked by ML. Most regular people don't use that stuff. I sure didn't need it for the first 3 years of shooting. Maybe by over complicating a lower end device it would drive away their target consumers - amateurs and hobbyists.
I do agree some of those features like an intervalometer should be a available to the FF shooters and pros.