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Gear Talk => Software & Accessories => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on December 12, 2013, 08:53:11 AM

Title: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Canon Rumors on December 12, 2013, 08:53:11 AM

Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.3

The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.3 update includes these enhancements:



Download

Adobe Lightroom 5.3: Windows | Macintosh


Adobe DNG Converter 8.3

The Adobe DNG Converter is a free utility that enables you to easily convert camera-specific raw files from more than 350 cameras to the more universal DNG raw format.


Digital Negative was developed to address the lack of an open standard for the proprietary and unique raw files created by each digital camera. DNG allows photographers to archive their raw camera files in a single format for easy cataloging and access in the future. With the format specification freely available, any developer can build software that supports and takes advantage of DNG. For more information, visit the Digital Negative page.


Support for the following cameras has been added. Visit the Camera Raw page for a complete list of supported cameras.



Download

Adobe DNG Converter 8.3: Windows | Macintosh


Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Zv on December 12, 2013, 09:31:13 AM
I have a (probably dumb) question. If everytime a new camera comes out and we need a new version of LR to utilize the RAW files, can we convert those files to DNG first and run the DNG file in a previous version of LR?

Is that why the Adobe DNG converter is free?? So you can do that?
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: JonAustin on December 12, 2013, 10:13:02 AM
I have a (probably dumb) question. If everytime a new camera comes out and we need a new version of LR to utilize the RAW files, can we convert those files to DNG first and run the DNG file in a previous version of LR?

Is that why the Adobe DNG converter is free?? So you can do that?

Good question. I'm no expert, but what I've taken from my reading is that the DNG converter creates a DNG "wrapper" around the original RAW file, without actually changing the RAW data from the original file. If that's the case, unless one of the manufacturers migrates to a new RAW format (how many years has Canon been on CR2 now?), I don't see how it makes any difference from which model camera the RAW file originates.

I'm personally slow to migrate to new technology, so Adobe has already long since supported any model camera I buy. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has purchased a model before it is officially supported by Adobe, but that uses an existing RAW format, and what their experiences were when attempting to open those files in LR or PS.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: qwerty on December 12, 2013, 10:22:49 AM
I have a (probably dumb) question. If everytime a new camera comes out and we need a new version of LR to utilize the RAW files, can we convert those files to DNG first and run the DNG file in a previous version of LR?

Is that why the Adobe DNG converter is free?? So you can do that?

Good question. I'm no expert, but what I've taken from my reading is that the DNG converter creates a DNG "wrapper" around the original RAW file, without actually changing the RAW data from the original file. If that's the case, unless one of the manufacturers migrates to a new RAW format (how many years has Canon been on CR2 now?), I don't see how it makes any difference from which model camera the RAW file originates.

I'm personally slow to migrate to new technology, so Adobe has already long since supported any model camera I buy. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has purchased a model before it is officially supported by Adobe, but that uses an existing RAW format, and what their experiences were when attempting to open those files in LR or PS.

A DNG (hopefully!) contains the same information as a RAW file (1), except in a different format.  It is thus more than just a wrapper around the raw data, but the practical difference does not really matter.  I believe that both .dng and most raw files are based on tiff, so there are probably some strong internal similarities.

For more information, see http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.pdf (http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.pdf)
plus the obligatory wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Negative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Negative)
and (for an older description of .CR2 files)
http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/ (http://lclevy.free.fr/cr2/)

DNG has an option to keep the original raw file embedded in the dng, but that is not required.

You can use the free converter to convert raw files from an unsupported camera to .dng files and edit these in lightroom.

(1) CR2 files actually contain embedded jpegs for previews and whatnot; those probably aren't the same between raw files and dng files.  But the actual raw image information should be the same.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: longtallkarl on December 12, 2013, 11:44:07 AM
hi Zv,

the short answer is yes, that's why the dng converter exists and is free. 

there is a bigger conversation about the advantages of converting to dng, mostly having to do with future proofing your raw files.

best,

-k
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Skirball on December 12, 2013, 11:47:36 AM
The DNG contains almost all the same information as RAW.  There are few camera specific things, like Nikon's Active D Lighting, that aren’t duplicated in DNG, but that doesn’t matter if you’re using PS or LR anyway.   I used the DNG converter for a year or two when I was using an old version of Photoshop and it worked fine, just required an extra step to batch convert my files after DL-ing from the card.

What I don’t get is, why they have to revise the RAW files with every camera model.  It’s my understanding that they’re ‘improving’ the codec, but is that really necessary with every camera model?  What can you improve in the Codec?  You can make the files smaller, and/or compressed faster.  But DNG continue to be slighter smaller than RAW files.  What gives?
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: GmwDarkroom on December 12, 2013, 11:51:03 AM
I have a (probably dumb) question. If everytime a new camera comes out and we need a new version of LR to utilize the RAW files, can we convert those files to DNG first and run the DNG file in a previous version of LR?

Is that why the Adobe DNG converter is free?? So you can do that?
Yes, assuming that Adobe doesn't change the format making it incompatible with previous versions.  Given that it's an open standard, I would hope that changes would be extensions not alterations.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: GmwDarkroom on December 12, 2013, 11:55:24 AM
What I don’t get is, why they have to revise the RAW files with every camera model.  It’s my understanding that they’re ‘improving’ the codec, but is that really necessary with every camera model?  What can you improve in the Codec?  You can make the files smaller, and/or compressed faster.  But DNG continue to be slighter smaller than RAW files.  What gives?
From a programming perspective, any given camera's first duty is to quickly and accurately get your RAW file to the cache and then to your storage.  It doesn't matter if your camera has 10fps, if the system can't write the files fast enough so I assume they squash down the files to the absolute minimum bits.  Doing so would mean that even a small change to megapixels or ExIFF data would mean a different file format.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Jamesy on December 12, 2013, 03:09:02 PM
I have a (probably dumb) question. If everytime a new camera comes out and we need a new version of LR to utilize the RAW files, can we convert those files to DNG first and run the DNG file in a previous version of LR?

Is that why the Adobe DNG converter is free?? So you can do that?
When I first got my 5d3 in March 2012, I was running LR3 which never got support for 5d3 files. I upgraded my computer in Oct 2012 to Win7, 64bit which allowed me to run LR4 which could natively read the 5d3 files. So, for six months, I ingested the CR2 files, used the free convertor and processed my images in LR3.

Now I just import CR2's and bypass the DNG conversion process. Either way, I don't notice an image difference and has already been said, there are tons of threads on DNG vs RAW. I don't convert them as it adds a step to my workflow but I never had an issue with DNG's. I wish all the manufacturers would go with DNG natively in camera and get away from the proprietary nonsense.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Rienzphotoz on December 12, 2013, 03:31:18 PM
Interesting thread and useful info. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Rienzphotoz on December 12, 2013, 03:33:10 PM
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<p><b>Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.3</b><br />

The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.3 update includes these enhancements:</p>
<ul>
<li>Additional raw file support for 20 new cameras, including the Fujifilm X-E2, Nikon D610, Nikon Df, and Sony A7.</li>
<li>Corrections and bug fixes for issues introduced in previous versions of Lightroom</li>
</ul>
<p><b>Download</b><br />

Adobe Lightroom 5.3: <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/lightroom/win/5.x/Lightroom_5_LS11_win_5_3.exe\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Windows</a> | <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/lightroom/mac/5.x/Lightroom_5_LS11_mac_5_3.dmg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Macintosh</a></p>
<p><b>Adobe DNG Converter 8.3</b><br />

The Adobe DNG Converter is a free utility that enables you to easily convert camera-specific raw files from more than 350 cameras to the more universal DNG raw format.</p>
<p>Digital Negative was developed to address the lack of an open standard for the proprietary and unique raw files created by each digital camera. DNG allows photographers to archive their raw camera files in a single format for easy cataloging and access in the future. With the format specification freely available, any developer can build software that supports and takes advantage of DNG. For more information, visit the <a href=\"http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/main.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Digital Negative page</a>.</p>
<p>Support for the following cameras has been added. Visit the <a href=\"http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Camera Raw page</a> for a complete list of supported cameras.</p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EOS M2</li>
<li>Canon PowerShot S120</li>
<li>Casio EX-10</li>
<li>Nikon 1 AW1</li>
<li>Nikon Coolpix P7800</li>
<li>Nikon Df</li>
<li>Nikon D610</li>
<li>Nikon D5300</li>
<li>Fujifilm XQ1</li>
<li>Fujifilm X-E2</li>
<li>Nokia Lumia 1020</li>
<li>Olympus OM-D E-M1</li>
<li>Olympus STYLUS 1</li>
<li>Panasonic DMC-GM1</li>
<li>Pentax K-3</li>
<li>Phase One IQ260</li>
<li>Phase One IQ280</li>
<li>Sony A7 (ILCE-7)</li>
<li>Sony A7R (ILCE-7R)</li>
<li>Sony DSC-RX10</li>
</ul>
<p><b>Download</b><br />

Adobe DNG Converter 8.3: <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/dng/win/DNGConverter_8_3.exe\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Windows</a> | <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/dng/mac/DNGConverter_8_3.dmg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Macintosh</a></p>

Supported Cameras includes "EOS-M2"? ... where can I buy it?
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: WPJ on December 12, 2013, 03:52:10 PM
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<p><b>Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.3</b><br />

The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.3 update includes these enhancements:</p>
<ul>
<li>Additional raw file support for 20 new cameras, including the Fujifilm X-E2, Nikon D610, Nikon Df, and Sony A7.</li>
<li>Corrections and bug fixes for issues introduced in previous versions of Lightroom</li>
</ul>
<p><b>Download</b><br />

Adobe Lightroom 5.3: <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/lightroom/win/5.x/Lightroom_5_LS11_win_5_3.exe\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Windows</a> | <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/lightroom/mac/5.x/Lightroom_5_LS11_mac_5_3.dmg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Macintosh</a></p>
<p><b>Adobe DNG Converter 8.3</b><br />

The Adobe DNG Converter is a free utility that enables you to easily convert camera-specific raw files from more than 350 cameras to the more universal DNG raw format.</p>
<p>Digital Negative was developed to address the lack of an open standard for the proprietary and unique raw files created by each digital camera. DNG allows photographers to archive their raw camera files in a single format for easy cataloging and access in the future. With the format specification freely available, any developer can build software that supports and takes advantage of DNG. For more information, visit the <a href=\"http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/main.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Digital Negative page</a>.</p>
<p>Support for the following cameras has been added. Visit the <a href=\"http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Camera Raw page</a> for a complete list of supported cameras.</p>
<ul>
<li>Canon EOS M2</li>
<li>Canon PowerShot S120</li>
<li>Casio EX-10</li>
<li>Nikon 1 AW1</li>
<li>Nikon Coolpix P7800</li>
<li>Nikon Df</li>
<li>Nikon D610</li>
<li>Nikon D5300</li>
<li>Fujifilm XQ1</li>
<li>Fujifilm X-E2</li>
<li>Nokia Lumia 1020</li>
<li>Olympus OM-D E-M1</li>
<li>Olympus STYLUS 1</li>
<li>Panasonic DMC-GM1</li>
<li>Pentax K-3</li>
<li>Phase One IQ260</li>
<li>Phase One IQ280</li>
<li>Sony A7 (ILCE-7)</li>
<li>Sony A7R (ILCE-7R)</li>
<li>Sony DSC-RX10</li>
</ul>
<p><b>Download</b><br />

Adobe DNG Converter 8.3: <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/dng/win/DNGConverter_8_3.exe\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Windows</a> | <a href=\"http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/dng/mac/DNGConverter_8_3.dmg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Macintosh</a></p>

Supported Cameras includes "EOS-M2"? ... where can I buy it?

no buying,it,is,you already have 5x or,CC, just download it.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: WPJ on December 12, 2013, 03:54:25 PM
I have a (probably dumb) question. If everytime a new camera comes out and we need a new version of LR to utilize the RAW files, can we convert those files to DNG first and run the DNG file in a previous version of LR?

Is that why the Adobe DNG converter is free?? So you can do that?
When I first got my 5d3 in March 2012, I was running LR3 which never got support for 5d3 files. I upgraded my computer in Oct 2012 to Win7, 64bit which allowed me to run LR4 which could natively read the 5d3 files. So, for six months, I ingested the CR2 files, used the free convertor and processed my images in LR3.

Now I just import CR2's and bypass the DNG conversion process. Either way, I don't notice an image difference and has already been said, there are tons of threads on DNG vs RAW. I don't convert them as it adds a step to my workflow but I never had an issue with DNG's. I wish all the manufacturers would go with DNG natively in camera and get away from the proprietary nonsense.

I have not looked at the conversion process.  However, if lightroom can't read your cr2 files how does the converter read them,correctly.  Does the converter get upgraded sooner?
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Skirball on December 12, 2013, 04:35:26 PM
I have a (probably dumb) question. If everytime a new camera comes out and we need a new version of LR to utilize the RAW files, can we convert those files to DNG first and run the DNG file in a previous version of LR?

Is that why the Adobe DNG converter is free?? So you can do that?
When I first got my 5d3 in March 2012, I was running LR3 which never got support for 5d3 files. I upgraded my computer in Oct 2012 to Win7, 64bit which allowed me to run LR4 which could natively read the 5d3 files. So, for six months, I ingested the CR2 files, used the free convertor and processed my images in LR3.

Now I just import CR2's and bypass the DNG conversion process. Either way, I don't notice an image difference and has already been said, there are tons of threads on DNG vs RAW. I don't convert them as it adds a step to my workflow but I never had an issue with DNG's. I wish all the manufacturers would go with DNG natively in camera and get away from the proprietary nonsense.

I have not looked at the conversion process.  However, if lightroom can't read your cr2 files how does the converter read them,correctly.  Does the converter get upgraded sooner?

Yes, they constantly upgrade the DNG converter to read new formats and convert them to a DNG format that doesn't change - hence is readable by any program that reads DNG.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: jointdoc on December 12, 2013, 04:36:59 PM
New cameras ususaly come with software that will convert the raw file to DNG.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: eml58 on December 12, 2013, 06:29:46 PM
I'm personally slow to migrate to new technology, so Adobe has already long since supported any model camera I buy. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has purchased a model before it is officially supported by Adobe, but that uses an existing RAW format, and what their experiences were when attempting to open those files in LR or PS.

I recently purchased the Sony a7r, Adobe PS CC & LR CC would not open the files initially, it took about 2 weeks after the Camera release before Adobe 5.3 release candidate became available, that's the initial Beta release of what we now have as an official 5.3 release.

Even Sony, to my knowledge, don't have a full-blown set of software to handle RAW files from the a7r, they have on their web site a very very basic set of software to open files, but it doesn't allow conversion to another format i.e.. RAW to DNG or TIFF.

This is one of the issues that have a lot of people upset with Adobe & the new Creative Cloud offering (PS CC & LR CC), if you don't take on the rental programme, at some point your stand alone software (LR4 & CS6 etc etc) may not receive the upgrades that allow you to open New Camera Files, as I initially found with the a7r RAW Files.

On the a7r as well, Sony do not supply the Camera with any software, no CD etc, your pretty well on your own, poor support in my view from Sony.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Jamesy on December 12, 2013, 08:27:26 PM

I have not looked at the conversion process.  However, if lightroom can't read your cr2 files how does the converter read them,correctly.  Does the converter get upgraded sooner?
My workflow was to convert RAW to DNG via the updated stand-alone Adobe DNG Converter and then place the files in their final spot on my hard drive and then go to LR and select Add from the Import panel. It worked great, just an additional step. I also could not tether capture images into LR3 at the time as it did not recognize the 5d3.

As has already been mentioned, the camera manufacturers provide software with each camera, DPP in Canon's case and I have heard many say the images from DPP are superior to LR. I am not very experienced with DPP so I am not the best one to comment about it.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on December 12, 2013, 08:28:43 PM
. I wish all the manufacturers would go with DNG natively in camera and get away from the proprietary nonsense.
The issue is that Major camera makers may want to add new camera features and do not want innovations limited by what Adobe allows in DNG.   Its a philosophy that lets Canon control its own destiny and not be limited by a committee or have to give trade secrets to a committee and lose a competitive advantage.  Canon is very secretive.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Jamesy on December 12, 2013, 08:34:28 PM
. I wish all the manufacturers would go with DNG natively in camera and get away from the proprietary nonsense.
The issue is that Major camera makers may want to add new camera features and do not want innovations limited by what Adobe allows in DNG.   Its a philosophy that lets Canon control its own destiny and not be limited by a committee or have to give trade secrets to a committee and lose a competitive advantage.  Canon is very secretive.
I thought DNG was an open source format that happened to be created by Adobe. It would be great to have RAW or DNG as an option in the camera body. I wonder if the manufacturers could introduce a feature that somehow could hoop Adobe's ability to read the file and subsequently import it into LR/Bridge/PS. I would think Canon or Nikon or whoever would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did this.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: brianboru on December 12, 2013, 08:36:03 PM
...
Supported Cameras includes "EOS-M2"? ... where can I buy it?


Sadly not in North America:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/12/canon-eos-m2-gets-official/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/12/canon-eos-m2-gets-official/)

http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/12/canon-eos-m2-not-coming-to-north-america/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/12/canon-eos-m2-not-coming-to-north-america/)
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: JonAustin on December 13, 2013, 09:10:22 AM
I recently purchased the Sony a7r, Adobe PS CC & LR CC would not open the files initially, it took about 2 weeks after the Camera release before Adobe 5.3 release candidate became available, that's the initial Beta release of what we now have as an official 5.3 release.

Do you know if the RAW files from the a7r are a different format than from other / previous Sony models? In the case of Canon, is there really any difference between CR2 files among their various models, other than the camera body identification in the EXIF data (and the actual raw data & JPEG preview image, of course)?

What Adobe ought to do is write a routine into PS and LR which -- if the RAW files being opened / imported are not supported in the installed release -- checks to see if DNG Converter is installed on the system, and if so, runs the files through the converter and then proceeds with processing as usual. The version of DNG Converter installed would have to support the camera from which the files originated, and the destination for the DNG files would have to be specified, either via a Preferences option or on a case-by-case basis. This would at least integrate the workflow a bit.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Skirball on December 13, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
. I wish all the manufacturers would go with DNG natively in camera and get away from the proprietary nonsense.
The issue is that Major camera makers may want to add new camera features and do not want innovations limited by what Adobe allows in DNG.   Its a philosophy that lets Canon control its own destiny and not be limited by a committee or have to give trade secrets to a committee and lose a competitive advantage.  Canon is very secretive.

I'd be curious to know when/what was the last addition that Canon made that wouldn't be supported by DNG.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Marsu42 on December 13, 2013, 05:31:51 PM
I'd be curious to know when/what was the last addition that Canon made that wouldn't be supported by DNG.

Very unlikely there are any, just like the tiff-based cr2 dng allows you do add just about any data you want, they even support lossy mode (much better than hi-res jpeg) and floating point.

The reason why neither Canon nor DxO want cr2 near them if they can help it is simply that Adobe controls the format, it being "open" doesn't change this fact. You realize this if you read why DxO does use dng for cameras that use it natively, but doesn't for Canon (after converting in ACR) - their arguments change from post to post and are outright ridiculous, they simply don't want to give the real reason.
Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: Harry Muff on December 13, 2013, 06:20:29 PM
This seems to have come at the right time for me as I bought an X100s a couple of days ago and I was having trouble with colour profiles. Seems to be a lot better now.



Title: Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 5.3 & DNG Converter 8.3
Post by: alexanderferdinand on December 15, 2013, 02:32:47 AM
What I like on the latest Rawconverter updates, that they still work as a plugin for CS6.
If I remember correct: in the past, in the time of CS3, CS4 and 5 the latest plugin was only for the actual version of the CS.
Do I remember correct?

Anyway: thanks for the info, and is already updated.