canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on October 14, 2011, 11:24:53 AM

Title: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Canon Rumors on October 14, 2011, 11:24:53 AM

New EOS

We will see a new camera on Tuesday and below I am confirming what we pretty much already know.



2012 is shaping up to be an interesting year for EOS.


The previous spec lists are pretty much bang on.


Lenses?

I have received no word of a new lens being announced at the same time. I suspect they’ll stagger announcements. The 24-70 f/2.8L II is the only lens being mentioned. Possibly in November. This isn’t included in the [CR3] rating.


cr


Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: ions on October 14, 2011, 11:28:17 AM
Need to hear about the high ISO performance and dynamic range capabilities before I get too excited.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: thepancakeman on October 14, 2011, 11:28:27 AM
Yeah baby!  Now I just gotta figure out what bank to rob so I can afford one....   ;)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 14, 2011, 11:30:30 AM
On the other hand, there's this:

http://www.photographybay.com/2011/10/14/canons-announcement-next-week-wont-be-a-dslr-or-lens/

OK Canon, you've had your fun. Now just INTRODUCE SOMETHING!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Justin on October 14, 2011, 11:38:19 AM
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: seanmcr6 on October 14, 2011, 11:41:44 AM
I am NOT suggesting that the megapixel war is that important...but if this is indeed the new flagship, how can they make it 18mp? That lower than the older (almost 3 years) 5DmkII....

The DR better be spectacular and the video features need to blow the 5D away....
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: thepancakeman on October 14, 2011, 11:44:33 AM
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

So how is 12 FPS and 61 AF points "less useful" for sports?  And although I'm all for higher megapixels, I'm willing to bet that the other performance aspects of this camera are over the top and I'm fairly certain at least someone somewhere once took a good sports photo at 18MP.   ::)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: ssrdd on October 14, 2011, 11:46:26 AM
why 18mp? what about video?

thanks.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on October 14, 2011, 11:48:41 AM
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

The feeling could be that the demand for high megapixels in a large body just isnt there anymore.

The 5D mk2 hurting 1Ds sales so badly seems to suggest that and the rumoured D800 seems to hint that Nikon maybe going in that direction.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 14, 2011, 11:48:52 AM
Hmmm...  Do I want this camera?  Probably.  If it comes as spec'd, it replaces my 5DII, just as a 1DsIV would.  I don't mind the loss of 3 MP at all, and triple the frame rate is a nice bonus. 

I don't see it as an amalgamation.  The loss of the 1.3x crop factor is a problem, and could only be solved in a merged line by a sensor with enough resolution to allow cropping to a least 16 MP to match the 1D IV (i.e. a 27 MP sensor).  An 18 MP FF sensor cropped to 1.3x gives 10.5 MP, a little short of where I'd like.  So, really, I see this as a 1Ds IV, whatever they call it.  The 'step down' from 21 MP to 18 MP is no biggie, and at least in the P&S line Canon has shown a willingness to drop MP count in a new model.

If the reason for dropping the MP is a new sensor design with better DR and ISO performance, I'm on board.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 14, 2011, 11:51:36 AM
I'm willing to bet that the other performance aspects of this camera are over the top and I'm fairly certain at least someone somewhere once took a good sports photo at 18MP.   ::)

Sure they did.  But would it have been as good if they had to crop it to 10 MP to get the framing they wanted?  What about the shooters with 400/2.8 lenses - often you need f/2.8 for the stop of light, so the 500/4 is not a good solution to get back the 1.3x, not even considering the cost...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Tarrum on October 14, 2011, 11:51:52 AM
Holy smokes.

I don't really care about megapixels, as long as there are more than 10, but this is going to be the 1D now? No 1Ds? The camera looks great, we're a little bit spoiled, but the ISO performance better be spectacular otherwise it'll be nothing that special. 2 years ago it would've been.

I'm still not completely sold on this info, because how will Canon compete with three D models (if they come) with one single line? Either they're gonna have to release a new 1D model when Nikon puts their thing out, or there's a new line coming out, or this camera is amazing.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Britman on October 14, 2011, 11:53:07 AM
why 18mp? what about video?


18mp doesn't really have any affect on HD video as the image size is way beyond HD already.
thanks.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Woody on October 14, 2011, 11:54:11 AM
Camera just needs to be better than current Nikon D3s:
- 18 MP FF vs 12 MP FF
- better high ISO performance (higher native ISO 51,200 vs 12,800 seems to hint this... but needs confirmation)
- 12 fps vs 10 fps
- better video mode 1080p vs 720p
- dynamic range?????

The last factor is the biggest unknown. If Canon can perform as well as, if not better than the D3s in terms of low ISO dynamic range, they have a winner in their hands. Camera may not appeal to landscape and studio photographers, but it certainly grants Canon bragging rights in the sports arena and easily out-spec the upcoming Nikon D800 except for pixel count. Wait a minute... isn't everyone crying for a stop to the megapixel race??? ;)

Anyway, if the 1D5 turns out to have impressive low IS dynamic range, then we can be sure the 2012 Canon DSLRs will have similar improvement... fingers crossed.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: insider on October 14, 2011, 11:54:44 AM
Guys~i guess it is  mirrorless camera by Canon  , not an eos .
Canon will Me_Me_Me all the mirrorless competitor with a fullframe mirrorless camera =) look at the spec it is not hard to imagine it is related to mirrorless camera.


Full Frame
18mp
"12 fps"
61 AF Points <–multi area , touch screen perhaps~


Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on October 14, 2011, 11:55:26 AM
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

So how is 12 FPS and 61 AF points "less useful" for sports? 

Sports photographers (Pros) use their 1D MK IV cameras along with their 400mm f/2.8 lenses. 

All of a sudden, they will need a 520mm f/2.8 lens to get the same field of view, or crop to a 10MP image rather than the 16mp image they now have once again to get the same field of view.

I'd say that would be less useful for them.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Haydn1971 on October 14, 2011, 12:03:14 PM
Sorry folks, I'm just not seeing the market stomach the range topping camera droping 3mpx after three years progress....  Sure ok, I can see the 1Ds being 18mpx full frame, even considering the cost involved in development of a new full frame sensor, but with a 24mpx Sony full frame sensor out there, the 24mpx APS-C also, talk of 36mpx at Nikon, I'm smelling lots of brown stuff here and if this proves to be true in terms of a 1Ds suspect a 1D being out soon after with a big jump or some kind of change to the 1D range where the sensor is upgradable, in the same way as the medium frame cameras - a data back solution.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: thepancakeman on October 14, 2011, 12:10:52 PM
I'm willing to bet that the other performance aspects of this camera are over the top and I'm fairly certain at least someone somewhere once took a good sports photo at 18MP.   ::)

Sure they did.  But would it have been as good if they had to crop it to 10 MP to get the framing they wanted?  What about the shooters with 400/2.8 lenses - often you need f/2.8 for the stop of light, so the 500/4 is not a good solution to get back the 1.3x, not even considering the cost...

I agree, but in my mind that's what the 7D is for.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if this camera were 40MP if that didn't come with a cost in other areas.  But I think the 1.3x is kinda no man's land for a lot (most?) of us--either go FF or 1.6.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on October 14, 2011, 12:11:36 PM
I agree with the folks who are unhappy about an 18 MP full frame sensor, I'd much rather see something in the high 20's or low 30's.

However, let's take a step back and see how this does make sense:

1. Nikon's competing "sports" camera is only 12.1 MP.  So 18 can still carry the day.  It's a bit of a shock from the extended reach we used to get with a 1.3x crop factor but ... in time we will adjust.  And, if the ISO quality improves significantly, then using a 500 f/4 may not be a step back from 400 f/2.8.

2. Everyone knows that, for all intents and purposes, the 5D2 killed the 1DsIII.  so why not just have a sports-shooting 1D series body, and then a high-MP 5D III?  I think this is where it's going.  hopefully the 5DIII gets some serious AF and weathersealing improvements to compensate.

that's my guess at where Canon is headed, and as the potential buyer of a 5D3 ... it makes me very excited.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: awinphoto on October 14, 2011, 12:23:58 PM
If this is the 1d/ids series specs... I hate to see the 5d specs... maybe the 5d mark II is starting to look more appealing... but wont believe a word till i read the specs on the press release...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 14, 2011, 12:25:07 PM
An 18MP FF camera has the same pixel size as a 10.6MP APS-H camera or roughly what an 1D3 was. A FF sports camera with "enough" pixels allows loose framing, a real benefit when photographing activities where the action is unpredictable, such as rugby and football (both American and international).

Sports Illustrated has run 2-page spreads from 4MP images. They looked fine.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: bchernicoff on October 14, 2011, 12:30:54 PM
And what if it is a 18mp full-frame Foveon type sensor with no AA filter? IQ would be better than the 21mp current sensor.

UPDATE: the more I think about it, this is the only way an 18mp spec would make sense. We've seen that Canon has a patent for a Foveon-style, full-color at each pixel sensor. If they ditched Bayer, went full-color at each pixel, ditched the anti-alias filter, image quality should be much better than the Bayer 21mp sensor. This could be great news.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: unfocused on October 14, 2011, 12:31:07 PM
I'm still very skeptical. I just cannot imagine Canon releasing a camera that drops in MPs as their new flagship.

I cringe thinking of the reaction we'll get from people like MacFly who actually buy and use these cameras for work.

If this is correct (and I will believe it when I see it), I can only see this as a "Lord of Darkness" camera with incredible low light sensitivity and dynamic range -- a completely new camera rather than a replacement for the ID or IDs.

As far as sports and wildlife shooters go, I think Canon may feel that there is so little difference between the image quality of the next generation of 1.6 sensors and the 1.3 sensor that they will quietly move this market over to the APS-C line, perhaps with a full-fledged professional model above the 7D.

On the other hand, there's the possibility that all of this is wrong and the real announcement next week is for the new version the Calculator Mouse. :)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Shnookums on October 14, 2011, 12:32:46 PM
Sorry folks, I'm just not seeing the market stomach the range topping camera droping 3mpx after three years progress....  Sure ok, I can see the 1Ds being 18mpx full frame, even considering the cost involved in development of a new full frame sensor, but with a 24mpx Sony full frame sensor out there, the 24mpx APS-C also, talk of 36mpx at Nikon, I'm smelling lots of brown stuff here and if this proves to be true in terms of a 1Ds suspect a 1D being out soon after with a big jump or some kind of change to the 1D range where the sensor is upgradable, in the same way as the medium frame cameras - a data back solution.

If the 1D line truly merge, I would expect to see things like 18mp @ 12 fps... But! I would also expect that you can switch to 5 or 6 fps and gain resolution. Trade resolution for speed. Im no good at calculating stuff but what kind of data moving around are we talking about with 18 mp @ 12 fps? And what would be the resolution if the same amount of data per secs was moved @ 6 fps?

That to me would be the real merge of the 1D line.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: nikkito on October 14, 2011, 12:33:21 PM
18 mp? :(:(:(:(:(
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: digishooter on October 14, 2011, 12:39:38 PM
IF that is what they are announcing, it's not what their customers are wanting.

I know 1dIV buyers are going to be pretty ticked off for one thing, since this would be the camera the 1dIV SHOULD have been, and the replacement cycle is pretty short.

A 5d3 or 1DsIV would make more sense.  But, Canon hasn't made sense before.



Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on October 14, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
I dont understand what all the instant naysayers are whining about. Its all like "noo please dont take my megapixels blabla".

Stop and think. What if this camera has "supernatural" low light performance and almost zero noise at ISO 6400? That might be the reason to why Canon decided to go with 18MP, and if that is the the case then = Camera of the year 2012!

Imagine being able to use ISO 1600 - 2000 as base ISO, because it looks just as good as ISO 100.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 14, 2011, 12:48:52 PM
Camera just needs to be better than current Nikon D3s

Canon needs to do better than beating a 2 year old camera - they need to be competitive with whatever Nikon brings forth to replace the D3s.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Polansky on October 14, 2011, 12:51:09 PM
Sports photographers (Pros) use their 1D MK IV cameras along with their 400mm f/2.8 lenses.

All of a sudden, they will need a 520mm f/2.8 lens to get the same field of view, or crop to a 10MP image rather than the 16mp image they now have once again to get the same field of view.

I'd say that would be less useful for them.

Who cares about the handfull of sports photographers while most professionals are wedding photographers, portrait photographers and photographers for editorial stuff.

The count is easy.
For every sports photographer there are at least 10 other pro's that rather prefer to have a full frame camera then a crop camera.

I bet Canon would like to see all those pro's that now choose the 5D above the 1Ds to come back to the 1 series and this is the way to reach that goal. Especially when it turns out that this 18MP camera is actually a foveon sensor like camera...

Its what all others pro photographers except for those handfull sports photographers have been hoping for.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 14, 2011, 12:55:39 PM
I dont understand what all the instant naysayers are whining about. Its all like "noo please dont take my megapixels blabla".

Stop and think. What if this camera has "supernatural" low light performance and almost zero noise at ISO 6400? That might be the reason to why Canon decided to go with 18MP, and if that is the the case then = Camera of the year 2012!

Imagine being able to use ISO 1600 - 2000 as base ISO, because it looks just as good as ISO 100.

Unless, of course, the Nikon D4 is just as good.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: benem on October 14, 2011, 12:58:59 PM

Who cares about the handfull of sports photographers while most professionals are wedding photographers, portrait photographers and photographers for editorial stuff.

The count is easy.
For every sports photographer there are at least 10 other pro's that rather prefer to have a full frame camera then a crop camera.

I bet Canon would like to see all those pro's that now choose the 5D above the 1Ds to come back to the 1 series and this is the way to reach that goal. Especially when it turns out that this 18MP camera is actually a foveon sensor like camera...

Its what all others pro photographers except for those handfull sports photographers have been hoping for.

The 12fps let me think that it is also destinated to sports photographers.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: fifowarehouse on October 14, 2011, 01:08:11 PM

 I wonder....what is the PRICE TAG for this camera?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: NormanBates on October 14, 2011, 01:09:19 PM
this is either foveon-like, or simething I truly don't understand

if b), it better have some amazing selling point in other areas, otherwise it may sell a lot less than they'd want
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: zimmy1 on October 14, 2011, 01:29:29 PM
Unless your goal is huge enlargements of exhibition/museum quality, 18mp is plenty of info. I have personally seen and made 16in and 20in enlargements that are crazy good from 12 to 18mp cameras. Most books, magazines, newspapers and the like, certainly don't need or even want these enormous file sizes. It's overkill. Portraiture, weddings etc.. have been done on far less megapixels for years! So most money making photography needs will be fullfilled with ease. Those who need more camera, simply buy more camera.
 
High dynamic range, noise/ISO performance, color accuracy, FPS, focus speed, accuracy and tracking, ease of use, user customization, durability, reliability are all far more important than megapixels alone. I think we may all be in for a real treat if they do in fact produce such a camera!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Polansky on October 14, 2011, 01:30:35 PM
Unless, of course, the Nikon D4 is just as good.

If its 'as good' then you must expect sort of the same pixelcount as well.
No reason to think Nikon has found the holy grail to get spectacular better results out of the camera with more megapixels and to have less noise and better ISO performances.

They are sort of on par with eachother and I have no reason to believe Canon lost all of its know-how.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Tinnunculus on October 14, 2011, 01:31:18 PM
Yes, I also guess its going to be foveon-type 18MPix...and maybe thats why nikon has to jump to a 36 MPix bayer-pattern sensor in the expected D800-to match the foveon in terms of resolution. It would be an interesting comparison/test between these two...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Ziggy on October 14, 2011, 01:45:14 PM
Looks good, like to know the flash sync speed.  Hopefully higher then 1/250th
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Picsfor on October 14, 2011, 01:50:16 PM
OK, let's take this rumour as spot on.

18mp - i think is spot on for portraits and weddings, as well as sports and wildlife.

61point focusing - 2 x digic 5 would allow them to make this second to none as well. We must remember that Canon still haven't fully recovered from the 1D3 focusing debacle.

12 fps. Yep, this covers just about all bases - lending to this being an all in one camera (Nikon style)

ISO and Dynamic Range - given what has been sacrificed, i would expect 104k iso as standard and DR to be top of the tree.

1D build quality and weather proofing, dual memory card slots with independent write to a given, hopefully along with wireless flash operation and Geotagging - all feasible with all that system capability going spare.

Video, definitely, and i suspect with auto focus and auto iso. 2 Digic 5's doing what only 1 is needed for...

I would definitely start saving up for this if it was a March release. 2nd 5D2 body going on sale once release confirms the facts...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Tarrum on October 14, 2011, 01:52:40 PM
Unless your goal is huge enlargements of exhibition/museum quality, 18mp is plenty of info. I have personally seen and made 16in and 20in enlargements that are crazy good from 12 to 18mp cameras. Most books, magazines, newspapers and the like, certainly don't need or even want these enormous file sizes. It's overkill. Portraiture, weddings etc.. have been done on far less megapixels for years! So most money making photography needs will be fullfilled with ease. Those who need more camera, simply buy more camera.
 
High dynamic range, noise/ISO performance, color accuracy, FPS, focus speed, accuracy and tracking, ease of use, user customization, durability, reliability are all far more important than megapixels alone. I think we may all be in for a real treat if they do in fact produce such a camera!

It's actually not the megapixels that confuse us...It's how Canon has decided to do this. It's not their way to decrease them, especially in a flagship camera. This camera seems brilliant on paper, but Nikon already did that sort of, s let's wait for more. A foveon like sensor makes sense, perhaps Nikon will do the same, but it's still not the upgrade you'd expect from them.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 14, 2011, 01:59:01 PM
Yes, I also guess its going to be foveon-type 18MPix...and maybe thats why nikon has to jump to a 36 MPix bayer-pattern sensor in the expected D800-to match the foveon in terms of resolution.

What makes you think an 18 MP Foveon-type sensor will match a 36 MP traditional sensor in terms of resolution?  18 MP is half of 36 MP, so an 18 MP Foveon-type sensor will have half the spatial resolution of a 36 MP sensor.  The Foveon technology means that no color interpolation is required, but color interpolation does not reduce spatial resolution.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: docsmith on October 14, 2011, 02:02:28 PM
Honestly, haven't we all heard for awhile that the 1D/1Ds lines weren't selling all that well?  That the 5DII has become the camera of choice for many professional photographers?  And to improve the 7D, aren't you getting close to the quality of the 1D series?  Canon has to chase the market.  They can't just build this freakin' amazing camera that costs a ton that has a teeny tiny market just because they can.  And they have to adjust as the technology evolves to the point that "prosumer" cameras are capable of meeting "professional" needs.

If these are the specs, I suspect that this is more about repositioning all of the camera bodies than simply blindly charging forward with each camera body separately.  For example, 1DsIV: specs listed, amazing DR/ISO; 5DIII: 30+ MP, average AF, good DR/ISO; 7DII: replaces 1D series and 7D series?  This gets blurry to me as to if this is still a "prosumer" camera.  But I think my point is that as the technology is evolving "prosumer" cameras are getting so good, they will likely be able to meet "professional" needs.  The pro I know shoots Nikon but mostly uses D300s....they only have one or 2 D3 bodies.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: thepancakeman on October 14, 2011, 02:03:44 PM
It does intrigue me that this site has been pretty replete with "it's not about the pixels" posts, but now all the sudden, it's "where's the pixels?!?"   ???
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 14, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
<li>1D/1Ds line is about to be amalgamated. (Name Unknown)</li>
<li>Full Frame</li>
<li>18mp</li>

can´t see that happen.

1D/1Ds to be amalgamated..... yep could be.
new camera with 18 MP fullframe sensor... yep could be.

but... 1Ds with 18 MP bayer sensor... that would REALLY REALLY suprise me!!!


Quote
The Foveon technology means that no color interpolation is required, but color interpolation does not reduce spatial resolution.

but other things on a bayer sensor do.
as far as i have read a bayer sensor needs about 1.8-2.4 times the photosites to have the same spatial resolution then a foveon sensor.

4.7 million potosites on a foveon sensor are roughly equal to 10-11 million photosites on a bayer senor (spatial resolution).
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: steven63 on October 14, 2011, 02:20:38 PM

I'm reminded of Tim the tool man doing his grunt over a fine piece of equipment when I read about everybody wanting more than 18 mpx. 

18 mpx, FF, 12 fps, 61 FP (all cross type?) and assuming improved ISO capabilities (I'm confident of it) would be an amazing camera.  It really, really isn't about the mpx (imo). 

I'd buy this camera in a heart beat with those listed specs.  And yeah, I'd to the grunt  ;D.

 
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J-Man on October 14, 2011, 02:27:46 PM
There has been a lot of feedback that Canon sensors have been too noisy, and I agree, Nikon stole a ton of photogs from Canon because of their lower noise, and the AF debacle didn't help any.
While I'd like to see a Foveon type sensor in the 1series, I don't think it will be in this body, my money is on the 3D/5DIII,
what I do expect is a luminance pixel to add dynamic range to the sensor, and in body processing to tone-map the jpg output. So it's possible there are over 18mp on chip, but there may be a resulting resolution reduction in the final output.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Tinnunculus on October 14, 2011, 02:41:12 PM
Yes, I also guess its going to be foveon-type 18MPix...and maybe thats why nikon has to jump to a 36 MPix bayer-pattern sensor in the expected D800-to match the foveon in terms of resolution.

What makes you think an 18 MP Foveon-type sensor will match a 36 MP traditional sensor in terms of resolution?  18 MP is half of 36 MP, so an 18 MP Foveon-type sensor will have half the spatial resolution of a 36 MP sensor.  The Foveon technology means that no color interpolation is required, but color interpolation does not reduce spatial resolution.

I meant physical resolution, like lines per picture width, or sharpness of the image...when you look at a bayer-based photo at 100%, its usually not sharp from pixel to pixel...but foveon can see a hair one pixel thin, which fades out from view or curves without moire or sharpening artefacts. It looks more natural...but its hard to say how a 36MPix bayer image downsampled to 18 looks compared to the foveon original, or how upsampled foveon compares to double MPix bayer. And whether foveon would have more DR and produce less noise than its, lets call it, bayer counterpart? Interesting, if its so
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 14, 2011, 02:43:46 PM

I meant physical resolution, like lines per picture width, or sharpness of the image...when you look at a bayer-based photo at 100%, its usually not sharp from pixel to pixel

well thats what he meant too....  :)

Spatial resolution

The measure of how closely lines can be resolved in an image is called spatial resolution, and it depends on properties of the system creating the image, not just the pixel resolution in pixels per inch (ppi). For practical purposes the clarity of the image is decided by its spatial resolution, not the number of pixels in an image. In effect, spatial resolution refers to the number of independent pixel values per unit length.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution


but as i wrote before, you are somewhat right.
resolution of a bayer sensor is decreased. because of agressive AA filters etc.
so less photosites on a foveon sensor can look sharper then more photosites on a bayer sensor.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: kubelik on October 14, 2011, 02:48:15 PM
If this is the 1d/ids series specs... I hate to see the 5d specs... maybe the 5d mark II is starting to look more appealing... but wont believe a word till i read the specs on the press release...

why "hate to see the 5d specs"?  this probably means Canon is going to have the 5D3 even more directly specialized on landscape photography, with a very high MP count, so that there is very clear differentiation between the 1-series and the 5-series.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: traveller on October 14, 2011, 02:51:20 PM
It's strange, over on NR there are a lot of people moaning that 36MP is too many.  Therefore if 18MP is too few, should we assume that 27MP is the oprimum point?!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 14, 2011, 02:56:12 PM
but as i wrote before, you are somewhat right.
resolution of a bayer sensor is decreased. because of agressive AA filters etc.
so less photosites on a foveon sensor can look sharper then more photosites on a bayer sensor.

Makes sense, thanks.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 14, 2011, 03:07:32 PM
what if canon got rid of the physical AA filter?

would a dual digi v be fast enough to do it in software?

i think a 18MP sensor without AA filter could outperfom a 21MP 5D MK2 in spatial resolution.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: traveller on October 14, 2011, 03:11:29 PM
I've just been reviewing the old 1D Mk4 & 7D rumours in the weeks prior to their announcements.  It is surprising just how much rubbish was sent to CR quite late in the day, as well as how many "nearly-but-not-quite" spec lists with a couple of key details wrong (was this deliberate misinformation from Canon, or simply "me too" attention seekers?).  There were also quite a few spot on sources (lenses in particular), but I remember that at the time, it was difficult to pick these from the background noise.  The 1D Mk4 was released on 19th October 2009, the day before Canon celebrated 50 years of SLRs.  Coincidence? We'll find out on Tuesday.. 
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Smith on October 14, 2011, 03:22:57 PM
What is the point in announcing a product that won't be available for another 5 months ? Add another month before retail gets a few units trickling in and another three months to work out the bugs and this is looking like a product that won't be ready for primetime until Q3 of 2012.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 14, 2011, 03:23:59 PM
What is the point in announcing a product that won't be available for another 5 months ? Add another month before retail gets a few units trickling in and another three months to work out the bugs and this is looking like a product that won't be ready for primetime until Q3 of 2012.

if it is a DSLR (not a magical mirrorless :) ) i think it will be ready for london 2012.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Justin on October 14, 2011, 03:59:15 PM
Honestly, at this point I just want Canon to release something. But there a few interesting suggestions on the board. Including mirrorless and no AA or weakened AA, perhaps. So I take back what I said earlier about no way on this spec.

If this thing comes out as a small bodied full frame mirrorless I'm in.

If Canon removes the AA low pass filter? I'm intrigued.

But if it's a big honking 1D sized body with a ff sensor then who cares. I remember when Canon rushed out the 1D4 to have something to release when the D3s hit. Maybe this is Canon's do over for that miscalculation. Still I think many people who buy a 1D4 like it for what it is. Even though it's a compromise.

I guess my hopes are still high for something innovative. Seriously sounds like a modest addition to the Canon lineup, one that doesn't really even fit.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on October 14, 2011, 04:00:10 PM
Don't expect a foveon sensor, the cost of FF would be out of this world, look at the price of the SD1 crop camera.  The sensor is very difficult to make, extreme low yield, and lots of other image compromises. 

I expect it to be a super low ISO sports camera to best the D3s, not a studio camera.  The 50mp 1Ds camera will appear before next summer, and maybe on November 3rd.

5D MK II will match the D800.  Canon knows what is coming, and willl have something similar.

Personally, I'd be very interested in a 18mp super low light high ISO camera, and if it is in the $5,000 range, I'd order it on day 1.  My 5D MK II is good at low light, bit 1-1/2 - 2 stops better would be amazing.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: AdamJ on October 14, 2011, 04:05:31 PM
The strategy makes sense to me. Aim the amalgamated 1D at those professionals - sports and photojournalists - who really benefit from the bomb-proof build, who often have several 1D's clonking together around their waist as they run to take position for the next money-shot.

Spec the 5DIII to cement its position as the studio / wedding / landscape camera of choice, replacing the 1DSIII, the bomb-proof build of which is, I suspect, largely wasted in this segment.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 14, 2011, 04:05:46 PM
Don't expect a foveon sensor, the cost of FF would be out of this world, look at the price of the SD1 crop camera.  The sensor is very difficult to make, extreme low yield, and lots of other image compromises. 

but that´s foveon.. canon does not build foveon sensors.
canon builds canon sensors. ;)

so it´s hard to predict as nobody has seen that "foveon like" canon sensor yet.. beside a few canon guys.. if it exist at all yet.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dgsphto on October 14, 2011, 05:03:51 PM
This is just a guess but I think this is the new 3D pro body. The 1D series are being renamed to 3D.

The 5Dmk3 will see a replacement announcement late this year with a 32 to 36MP sensor and release early next year. A pro body 5Dmk3 will be the new 1Dsmk4 which will drop the "s" and be just 1D4 or something.

Basically this is what  Ithink the Canon line up will look like:
* New 1D4 (Basically a pro 1Dsmk4) with 32 to 36MP sensor and the non-pro version being 5Dmk3.
* 3D (The new Pro model being announced next week) with the non-pro version being called 6D.

7D might be eventually either be EOL-ed because of the overlap with the 6D as above; OR, will continue as a consumer APS-C version of the 6D spec.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: DarkKnightNine on October 14, 2011, 05:07:53 PM
I think it should be noted that if you go to Canon's Direct Online Store the highest level DSLR you can buy is the 1D Mark IV. There's no 1D Mark III or 1Ds Mark III. So either that points to a 1D Mark V, a 1Ds Mark IV or the rumored merging of the 1 series cameras. Of course this is all purely speculation:
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subCategorySort_10051_10051_-1_12164_highPrice_list
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 14, 2011, 05:08:53 PM
The strategy makes sense to me. Aim the amalgamated 1D at those professionals - sports and photojournalists - who really benefit from the bomb-proof build, who often have several 1D's clonking together around their waist as they run to take position for the next money-shot.

Spec the 5DIII to cement its position as the studio / wedding / landscape camera of choice, replacing the 1DSIII, the bomb-proof build of which is, I suspect, largely wasted in this segment.

Almost perfectly stated. However, the wedding photographers I know neither need nor want a lot of pixels. The two I know best use Nikon D700's, replacing 5D2's. Both state that they wouldn't mind a slight increase in resolution to, you guessed it, 18MP. Both are pretty obsessive about wanting more DR, something to do with blowing out the fine detail in the brides' wide dresses. However, neither of them needs the ruggedness of a D3 or 1D4 and neither wants to spend the money to get it.

Correction: "white dresses", not "wide dresses"
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: gene_can_sing on October 14, 2011, 05:12:12 PM
I'm not a big mega-pixel guy at all. I actually prefer low mega-pixels because I do video.

With that said, it's strange that an 18 megapixel camera is going to be Canon's flagship camera, especially since Nikon is going to release a 36 mp FF camera that is going to be their mid-range camera.

I'm hoping it's going to be the lower megapixel, video friendly full frame (3D or 6D or whatever it's called). Now if that was 18 mp, that would make sense. But the Flagship camera? I don't think so.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Rocky on October 14, 2011, 05:12:47 PM
The post did not say that it will be a 1D. It is another EOS camera. Looks like Canon is trying to make a "speed demon" and an "owl" out of this camera. The highest MP in the FF for Canon is 21.1MP. Between 18MP (proposed) and 21.1MP, there is only a lost of reolution of 8% (linear). It is no big deal. If it give us a  better noise performance at high ISO, better dynamic Range  and an "insane" speed of 12-14 FPS. It may be worth to give up the 8% resolution.  In fact, i would rather it is not a 1D. Instead I would like to see it with the body similar to 5D II, without the vertical grip. I also have dreamed that it will be a copy of the Leica M9 with Leica M mount.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: smallFish on October 14, 2011, 05:29:07 PM
Whatever this new body is we need more graceful clipping in the highlight area.
a900 is not perfect but better than Canon for sure. so better Dynamic Range please....
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: pmad40 on October 14, 2011, 06:05:40 PM
I dont believe its a 1 series personally. The specs alone are pretty unexciting. My moneys on this being the new Canon Mirrorless... :-)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 14, 2011, 06:34:09 PM
If these are the new specs, and they're correct, and it's an 18MP FF sensor, then it can ONLY be one of the following:
a) Not the flagship and something better will come later (more likely)
b) A foveon-type sensor (my hope)
c) A corporate suicide note.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: macfly on October 14, 2011, 07:02:21 PM
I get the feeling from that ad that was linked to that we're going to see the entire EOS line upgraded, and if that is the case then the rumor mill has really been starved of credible info.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Woody on October 14, 2011, 07:34:55 PM
Camera just needs to be better than current Nikon D3s

Canon needs to do better than beating a 2 year old camera - they need to be competitive with whatever Nikon brings forth to replace the D3s.

Arguable. Consider the following:

12 MP, 6 fps Nkon D300 announced 23-July-2007
12 MP, 7 fps Nikon D300s announced 30-July-2009
18 MP, 8 fps Canon 7D announced 1-Sep-2009
16 MP, 6 fps Nikon D7000 announced 15-Sep-2010

Since the D7000 is still not up to 7D in both pixel count and fps, merely on par in terms of high ISO performance (although it excels in low ISO dynamic range), we can safely say Nikon has yet to surpass the 7D with a competing model 2 years after the release of the 7D which was announced 2 years after D300.

With the 1D5 set to surpass the D3/D3s in almost all aspects (low ISO dynamic range is still an unknown), this is merely history repeating itself.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Woody on October 14, 2011, 07:46:28 PM
Not the flagship and something better will come later (more likely)

I won't consider the 1D5 the flagship. It's designed to be a speed demon that overtakes both Sony and Nikon in terms of bragging rights. :) Sony likes to tout its A77 is capable of 12 fps (although only with either aperture set at f/3.5 or first frame AF), and Nikon's fastest professional D3s camera is 'only' capable of 9 fps.

The megapixel monster from Canon should be announced next year. Didn't CR mention something like the 1Ds3 successor is going to be a departure from the current 1Ds line?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: niccyboy on October 14, 2011, 07:49:58 PM
I wonder if it will have the GPS capabilities like the d3 line.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: thepancakeman on October 14, 2011, 08:00:47 PM
I wonder if it will have the GPS capabilities like the d3 line.

I see lots of comments about GPS and honestly I don't quite get it.  Is it for landscape/street photography to note where you were, or what's the purpose on a pro level camera?  (This is an honest question, not sarcasm or anything.)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Chris_BC on October 14, 2011, 08:36:05 PM
I don't see this as being the new flagship either.  I know there are a ton of people on here who totally disagree with the "megapixel war", but you need to take your opinions out of the equation.

As a couple earlier posters mentioned, this would be 3 MP less than Canon's now 3 plus year old 5D MKII.  Meanwhile the 1Ds III has been languishing for over 4 years now.  It just doesn't make sense for Canon to lose resolution from the 5D II at this point.  They need to be upping the resolution of the 5D II and achieving better ISO and dynamic range for it to be a new flagship.

I can see this being a new 1D V, with no amalgamation.  So Canon announces a 1Ds IV shortly thereafter.  I could also see it being a new line, but that is perhaps less likely.  The only thing arguing for that is the comments from the sports shooters pointing out that they will lose zoom going from 1.3x to FF.

To anyone who thinks this is about sales volume and/or dollars of the flagship itself, think again.  The money Canon brings in from their top end cameras is small potatoes compared to their P&S and low and mid range DSLRs.  This issue is the prestige and branding image that comes with the perception that your flagship camera demonstrates technology that exceeds the other brands.  That perception drives sales of the a good portion of the more inexpensive cameras where the money is made.

I can't see a new flagship coming out at less than 24 MP.  I also agree with the other posters who said that Canon has to meet or exceed whatever Nikon is about to do with their flagship.  I would not be at all surprised to find out that Canon originally intended to bring out a 1Ds IV 18 to 24 months ago but ran into issues, and perhaps one issue was that their prototypes were not up to competing with the Nikon.  (I think that's been discussed here before.)

Like a few others here I could perhaps see this as a flagship if Canon has improved the high ISO noise substantially and increased the dynamic range to where it comes close to the human eye.  That's a pretty tall order.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 14, 2011, 09:07:21 PM
To anyone who thinks this is about sales volume and/or dollars of the flagship itself, think again.  The money Canon brings in from their top end cameras is small potatoes compared to their P&S and low and mid range DSLRs.  This issue is the prestige and branding image that comes with the perception that your flagship camera demonstrates technology that exceeds the other brands.  That perception drives sales of the a good portion of the more inexpensive cameras where the money is made.

From what I've seen, most Canon P&S and Rebel owners have no idea that a 1D-series even exists. Furthermore, most Rebel owners seem to leave their camera mode set to that little green box where the camera makes most of the decisions. In short, most of them are very unsophisticated. Most 1D buyers, on the other hand, are much more sophisticated or at least sophisticated enough to know what camera performance parameters are limiting their work. It doesn't seem to be resolution that they find limiting.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 14, 2011, 09:10:38 PM
Since the D7000 is still not up to 7D in both pixel count and fps, merely on par in terms of high ISO performance (although it excels in low ISO dynamic range), we can safely say Nikon has yet to surpass the 7D with a competing model 2 years after the release of the 7D which was announced 2 years after D300.

The D7000's competition is the 60D, not the 7D, so it's not surprising that the D7000 falls short of the 7D, spec-wise. The 7D's match is the D300s, which has no successor to date.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Woody on October 14, 2011, 09:31:17 PM
The D7000's competition is the 60D, not the 7D, so it's not surprising that the D7000 falls short of the 7D, spec-wise. The 7D's match is the D300s, which has no successor to date.

Precisely. Nikon has yet to produce a direct competitor to the 7D 2 years after its release. So, it's not exactly a bad thing for the 7D to surpass the specs of a 2 year old D300 model. In fact, Canon has now set the bar for the D300 successor. If Nikon was originally thinking of releasing an 18 MP, 8 fps successor, they know now they have to do better than that.

In the same vein, if Canon produces a 18 MP FF 12 fps 1D5 with excellent high ISO performance and wide low ISO dynamic range, then Nikon knows their D4 has to be better than that. Whatever original plans they had for the D3/D3s successor must now be discarded and improved upon.

This is the benefit of healthy competition. :)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: niccyboy on October 14, 2011, 09:32:00 PM
To anyone who thinks this is about sales volume and/or dollars of the flagship itself, think again.  The money Canon brings in from their top end cameras is small potatoes compared to their P&S and low and mid range DSLRs.  This issue is the prestige and branding image that comes with the perception that your flagship camera demonstrates technology that exceeds the other brands.  That perception drives sales of the a good portion of the more inexpensive cameras where the money is made.

From what I've seen, most Canon P&S and Rebel owners have no idea that a 1D-series even exists. Furthermore, most Rebel owners seem to leave their camera mode set to that little green box where the camera makes most of the decisions. In short, most of them are very unsophisticated. Most 1D buyers, on the other hand, are much more sophisticated or at least sophisticated enough to know what camera performance parameters are limiting their work. It doesn't seem to be resolution that they find limiting.

I disagree, i think a lot of REBEL owners know about the 1d series. Look at this forum and the signatures on the bottom. A lot of the regular posters here have Rebels. I don't drive a ferrari but i know a lot about them.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: niccyboy on October 14, 2011, 09:38:09 PM
I wonder if it will have the GPS capabilities like the d3 line.

I see lots of comments about GPS and honestly I don't quite get it.  Is it for landscape/street photography to note where you were, or what's the purpose on a pro level camera?  (This is an honest question, not sarcasm or anything.)

For a few of my projects, the EXIF data with the location is very important for the client. For example when we are photographing faults in rural projects from helicopters we use D3x's purely for the GPS ability, (the canon one isn't as simple).

I know it's something that will go largely unused, but it's not a difficult addition if they do it like the d3 series. With them you still need an attachment to a garmin or whatnot, but it's just the ability to connect it through a simple cable and the results recorded straight to the EXIF. I'm not a camera manufacturer though so it may be more complicated, but i don't see how.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: gmrza on October 14, 2011, 09:52:07 PM

I know it's something that will go largely unused, but it's not a difficult addition if they do it like the d3 series. With them you still need an attachment to a garmin or whatnot, but it's just the ability to connect it through a simple cable and the results recorded straight to the EXIF. I'm not a camera manufacturer though so it may be more complicated, but i don't see how.

GPS capability is going to become a "must have" in the consumer segment, plus the hardware is now being manufactured in such large quantities, that even if it is a capability that only a few people really need, it will be cheap for Canon to include.

Again something that is niche is the kind of barcoding integration that the 7DSV has - not many people need it, but it would make my wife's life a lot easier on some of her jobs.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on October 14, 2011, 10:31:49 PM
My main concern about in Camera GPS is that it does not function well in the reviews I've seen so far, and it eats up batteries. 

I don't object to it, its a good idea, but it would be more attractive if it worked better than what we've seen so far.  The external GPS modules seem to work just fine, but are another item to drag around.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: gmrza on October 14, 2011, 11:15:00 PM
My main concern about in Camera GPS is that it does not function well in the reviews I've seen so far, and it eats up batteries. 

I don't object to it, its a good idea, but it would be more attractive if it worked better than what we've seen so far.  The external GPS modules seem to work just fine, but are another item to drag around.

I forgot to add - this needs to be a feature you can turn off.  Sometimes you would prefer not to have images geotagged, and sometimes you do really need the battery life just for shooting.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 14, 2011, 11:23:50 PM
If these are the new specs, and they're correct, and it's an 18MP FF sensor, then it can ONLY be one of the following:
a) Not the flagship and something better will come later (more likely)

Exactly!



Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 14, 2011, 11:26:32 PM
I get the feeling from that ad that was linked to that we're going to see the entire EOS line upgraded, and if that is the case then the rumor mill has really been starved of credible info.

Sweet!  Let us pray together.  Why not?  Digic5 is ready and manufacturing was already disrupted so good time to retool and release 1D5, 5D3, 6D, and 7D2 all at once.  LOL wishful thinking but it could happen :)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: niccyboy on October 15, 2011, 12:16:40 AM
My main concern about in Camera GPS is that it does not function well in the reviews I've seen so far, and it eats up batteries. 

I don't object to it, its a good idea, but it would be more attractive if it worked better than what we've seen so far.  The external GPS modules seem to work just fine, but are another item to drag around.

I forgot to add - this needs to be a feature you can turn off.  Sometimes you would prefer not to have images geotagged, and sometimes you do really need the battery life just for shooting.

I do like the way the Nikon one works. It doesn't affect the battery life. It is an attachment and it's cheap.
I think Canon could implement this easily... it is pretty much just recording the GPS location off the attachment, not powering the GPS or doing anything other than recording the lat and long onto the exif, just as it records the time, date, copyright info etc.

AFAIK Canon currently needs the wireless transmitter base to use GPS currently, which is about a grand PLUS the attachment. I may be wrong, but this is what i was told when we were researching our kit and ended up using nikon on that job.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: John Thomas on October 15, 2011, 02:56:18 AM
If these are the new specs, and they're correct, and it's an 18MP FF sensor, then it can ONLY be one of the following:
a) Not the flagship and something better will come later (more likely)
b) A foveon-type sensor (my hope)
c) A corporate suicide note.

a) -> My take: Unprobably, given the way in which the event/camera is promoted

b) -> Perhaps this?
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,1209.0.html
 My take: :D :D :D


c) -> My take: if not b) then c)  :(
The "social charge" of an 18MP Bayer sensor in a flagship camera today is too high to sustain, even for Canon.

And now I'm thinking at the latest Nikon mirrorless "cameras"...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Stuart on October 15, 2011, 03:30:07 AM
Availability in March - really this is ages away.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Joseph on October 15, 2011, 03:53:57 AM
I dont know about any of you , but I am extremely excited for any DSLR camera coming out with a DUAL DIGIC 5 cpu's , I read this amazing cpu has 75% less noise than the Digic 4 - if you then attach these 2 bad boys to a beautiful 18mp+ sensored DSLR ;D I will poo all over my chair right now !!!! Noise is the one plague I want out of my images , and 18 megapixel is more than enough for any publications I or most anyone submits too - I can crop half of the 18mp image and still have enough resolution for full page print , Canon bring it on , but BRING IT NOW !!!!!! I'm ready for my new muscle !!!!! ;)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Ricku on October 15, 2011, 06:20:14 AM
I dont know about any of you , but I am extremely excited for any DSLR camera coming out with a DUAL DIGIC 5 cpu's , I read this amazing cpu has 75% less noise than the Digic 4 - if you then attach these 2 bad boys to a beautiful 18mp+ sensored DSLR ;D I will poo all over my chair right now !!!! Noise is the one plague I want out of my images , and 18 megapixel is more than enough for any publications I or most anyone submits too - I can crop half of the 18mp image and still have enough resolution for full page print , Canon bring it on , but BRING IT NOW !!!!!! I'm ready for my new muscle !!!!! ;)

+1 ! ..or should I say +1000!

You took the words right out of me.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Picsfor on October 15, 2011, 06:23:35 AM
gives me a chance to play with it on Oct 26th at London Canon Pro show.

Then, if i like it, gives me the chance to save up and buy 1 or 2 of them  ;) by the time it becomes available in March  ::)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 15, 2011, 06:39:27 AM
I dont know about any of you , but I am extremely excited for any DSLR camera coming out with a DUAL DIGIC 5 cpu's , I read this amazing cpu has 75% less noise than the Digic 4

i think "has" is the wrong word here.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: wockawocka on October 15, 2011, 08:28:34 AM
I dont know about any of you , but I am extremely excited for any DSLR camera coming out with a DUAL DIGIC 5 cpu's , I read this amazing cpu has 75% less noise than the Digic 4 - if you then attach these 2 bad boys to a beautiful 18mp+ sensored DSLR ;D I will poo all over my chair right now !!!! Noise is the one plague I want out of my images , and 18 megapixel is more than enough for any publications I or most anyone submits too - I can crop half of the 18mp image and still have enough resolution for full page print , Canon bring it on , but BRING IT NOW !!!!!! I'm ready for my new muscle !!!!! ;)

Noise in an image comes from the amount of energy pumped through the sensor. The only point at which the Digic processor reduces noise is if you use it to reduce noise (and soften the image as a consequence).

Only an improvement in the sensor will improve the level of noise.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 15, 2011, 08:49:17 AM
I dont know about any of you , but I am extremely excited for any DSLR camera coming out with a DUAL DIGIC 5 cpu's , I read this amazing cpu has 75% less noise than the Digic 4 - if you then attach these 2 bad boys to a beautiful 18mp+ sensored DSLR ;D I will poo all over my chair right now !!!! Noise is the one plague I want out of my images , and 18 megapixel is more than enough for any publications I or most anyone submits too - I can crop half of the 18mp image and still have enough resolution for full page print , Canon bring it on , but BRING IT NOW !!!!!! I'm ready for my new muscle !!!!! ;)

Noise in an image comes from the amount of energy pumped through the sensor. The only point at which the Digic processor reduces noise is if you use it to reduce noise (and soften the image as a consequence).

Only an improvement in the sensor will improve the level of noise.
So the sensor is the only source of noise in an image, the amplifiers and A-to-D converter can't introduce additional noise? Are these components separate from the Digic or are they part of it?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 15, 2011, 08:57:18 AM
there can be all kind of other noise sources.. but the sensor noise is the basic.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: iaind on October 15, 2011, 09:12:56 AM
I get the feeling from that ad that was linked to that we're going to see the entire EOS line upgraded, and if that is the case then the rumor mill has really been starved of credible info.

The Singapore Ad gives that impression but it might be a teaser for an additional body. Roll on Tuesday.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: NotABunny on October 15, 2011, 09:25:43 AM
I get the feeling from that ad that was linked to that we're going to see the entire EOS line upgraded, and if that is the case then the rumor mill has really been starved of credible info.

Hehe, the voice of wisdom. If they are going to announce a camera with 5 months in advance, they might as well announce all of them (planned cameras).
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Woody on October 15, 2011, 09:44:55 AM
So the sensor is the only source of noise in an image, the amplifiers and A-to-D converter can't introduce additional noise? Are these components separate from the Digic or are they part of it?

I am inclined to think DIGIC is a jpeg processor. It only affects jpeg output.

While amplifiers and A-D converters most certainly affect sensor performance (Canon's Archille's heel is their sensor electronics introduces way too much noise at low ISO, which then translates into limited dynamic range... as compared to Sony sensors), they are not part of DIGIC.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Orangutan on October 15, 2011, 09:46:37 AM
there can be all kind of other noise sources..

I think the "rumor mill" is our primary source of noise right now.   :D


No, really, it's funny how people keep looking at this like a Rorschach test, seeing exactly what they want to see.  Instead, look at it from the business perspective, not the aficionado perspective:


If I'm a Canon marketing exec, I'm going to re-structure my entire line around my cash cow, the 5D3, as follows:

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 15, 2011, 10:35:23 AM
To anyone who thinks this is about sales volume and/or dollars of the flagship itself, think again.  The money Canon brings in from their top end cameras is small potatoes compared to their P&S and low and mid range DSLRs.  This issue is the prestige and branding image that comes with the perception that your flagship camera demonstrates technology that exceeds the other brands.  That perception drives sales of the a good portion of the more inexpensive cameras where the money is made.

From what I've seen, most Canon P&S and Rebel owners have no idea that a 1D-series even exists. Furthermore, most Rebel owners seem to leave their camera mode set to that little green box where the camera makes most of the decisions. In short, most of them are very unsophisticated. Most 1D buyers, on the other hand, are much more sophisticated or at least sophisticated enough to know what camera performance parameters are limiting their work. It doesn't seem to be resolution that they find limiting.

I disagree, i think a lot of REBEL owners know about the 1d series. Look at this forum and the signatures on the bottom. A lot of the regular posters here have Rebels. I don't drive a ferrari but i know a lot about them.

And I drive a Honda Fit and also know a lot about Ferraris (and even more about Porsches), but I'm quite sure that, to most Fit owners, Ferrari and Porsche are just names, at best. I can't count the number of times I've explained why my DSLR is better than their P&S or that, no, it's not that camera that's impressive, it's the 300 f/2.8 lens mounted on the front of it.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: notacoach on October 15, 2011, 10:36:00 AM
Based on rumours this past year, how about this:

New 1d = pro (largely sport/speed) market. Larger form factor.
New 3d (or 5dIII)= high end/pro studio/landscape FF, crazy high ISO quality, larger form factor, video for pro use.
5dIII (or 3d or 9d) = routine upgrade to 5dII (with special attention to improved AF with more points, and inclusion of flash commander) but overall pretty much as-is. Relatively affordable, small-form FF.
7d = pretty much as-is. Top of the line crop, but still relatively affordable pro-useable, sports/all-rounder
XXd = more than entry level, but without the pro features - consumer all-rounder.
Rebels = entry level.

Maybe 3d and 5dIII specs reversed (if only to keep "name recognition" of the 5d for video), with 3d being the relatively affordable FF, and the 5dIII staying the pro FF/video camera.  Or even a 9d being introduced as a relatively affordable FF (pure speculation based on Canon numbering traditions)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Mark D5 TEAM II on October 15, 2011, 10:39:15 AM
Lulz. Slightly OT, from the CR FB page:

Quote
Canon Rumors
Nikon marketing employees joining the CR forum, you should turn your auto responder off on your email account, or use a different account. :)

 ;D  ;D  :D
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: macfly on October 15, 2011, 10:55:30 AM
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 15, 2011, 11:04:07 AM
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

Wild Guess: Part of the announcement will be that the EOS lens mount specification will be changed by adding pins and functionality to make it friendlier to video lenses.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: markds on October 15, 2011, 11:27:27 AM
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

Totally agree. The advert gives it away (there appears to be a letter after the D, probably an s). There are three possibilities:

1: A new 1DV
2: A new 1DsIV
3: An entirely new addition to the 1 series.

My best guess would be a 1DsIV, which either means the 18mp rumour is nonsense, or it's a foveonesque sensor.  Remember a while back there were rumours about a 54mp Canon? Well, 18mp * red * blue * green = 54. I doubt it though - that would be too good to be true!

There have also been hints at a mirrorless FF (see user 3434343434343, who made two posts):
http://www.43rumors.com/olympus-45mm-in-stock-silver-and-black-panasonic-45-175mm-in-us-and-europe-and-superdeal-in-uk/#comments
Post#1: canon will announce a FF mirrorless next thursday… keep my word in mind!! you heard it here first… from a guy who works for zeiss germany.
Post#2: no details i am 100% sure about…. i just got it from a friend who works for canon and is under NDA. but 18 october will send out quite a shockwave.

It may be BS of course!!!

However, the 25th aniversary would indicate something high-end will be announced.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 15, 2011, 11:28:33 AM
Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

I have...and it's pretty sweet.  I gave it the 'quick my kid's doing something cute' test (pick up from table, turn on camera, aim, focus, capture), and it's just slightly slower than my PowerShot S95 (approximately 6 seconds for the iPhone 4S, 5 seconds for the S95).  Focusing is pretty quick, and the touchscreen makes selecting a subject easy (assuming you don't want to use the face(s) automatically selected by the iPhone). 
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: bycostello on October 15, 2011, 12:11:18 PM
oooh very excited...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: SlothLovesChunk on October 15, 2011, 12:35:13 PM
Doesn't anyone else notice the inherent problem with calling a camera "3D" unless it shoots...3D?
Seems that's already a longstanding moniker that would confuse the hell out of people. We ought to find another name for our imaginary cameras...there are plenty of digits available...2D,4D,6D,8D,9D, eleventy billionD, etc.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Polansky on October 15, 2011, 01:29:00 PM
Doesn't anyone else notice the inherent problem with calling a camera "3D" unless it shoots...3D?
Seems that's already a longstanding moniker that would confuse the hell out of people. We ought to find another name for our imaginary cameras...there are plenty of digits available...2D,4D,6D,8D,9D, eleventy billionD, etc.

No, and who says that Canon needs to keep the letter D for digital...
All cameras in todays world are Digital and everybody expect no less.

Canon could easily call it 3x or 3s or whatever they like it to call.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Edwin Herdman on October 15, 2011, 02:35:55 PM
Canon still sells the EOS-1 series.

Still not buying this rumor and I think it was a mistake to tie the rumor to the product launch rumor (even if they came packaged together they are two separate things to judge).

The D3s is also nearly two years old - it's not competition for a future DSLR.  New Nikon bodies will be.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Justin on October 15, 2011, 06:20:51 PM
Still not buying this rumor and I think it was a mistake to tie the rumor to the product launch rumor (even if they came packaged together they are two separate things to judge).

I agree with you here. It's a way for Admin (Craig) to prove that the rumor was right even without any solid information.

Also, what is with people on this forum? My karma keeps going down. I have never flamed a single member of this board. I've been a follower since day one, before Craig had his spat with Canon over logo and design. Every time he disbanded the comments and renewed them I would be one of the first to sign back up. I appreciate what he does, I do. I just think that Canon is a very tight lipped company and it means much less entertainment re: speculation than say the micro 4/3 companies or Sony.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: traveller on October 15, 2011, 06:40:09 PM
Also, what is with people on this forum? My karma keeps going down. I have never flamed a single member of this board.

I'm unsure just how this karma is meant to work; I think that one's profile should show how many times you have applauded/smote someone (though perhaps not whom), so that everyone can see if a person just a malicious little troll.  If all you're doing is smiting people, then perhaps further action should be taken.  It seems that you can only applaud/smite someone once every two hours (cool off period?!).  FWIW I have applauded you so that you don't feel so bad about all the smites you've been receiving recently!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: nikkito on October 15, 2011, 07:41:36 PM
I've applauded you too ;)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Speed on October 15, 2011, 07:49:47 PM
Looking at the specs, for me they are perfect....I'll take two.
My main need is for good low light performance & better DR would also be great.
18 megapixels are also pretty perfect for me.

I'm no expert but in researching for my next camera I have spoken to experts & across the board they tell me that the current "L" lenses can't resolve more than around 21 megapixels anyway & that they would be the bottle neck. 
 
If this is the case I'm left wondering why anyone would want more mega pixels.  I see that there are many experts on this forum so if the people I've been speaking to are incorrect, although I would find that very hard to believe, please enlighten me.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Etienne on October 15, 2011, 07:57:58 PM
Still not buying this rumor and I think it was a mistake to tie the rumor to the product launch rumor (even if they came packaged together they are two separate things to judge).

I agree with you here. It's a way for Admin (Craig) to prove that the rumor was right even without any solid information.

Also, what is with people on this forum? My karma keeps going down. I have never flamed a single member of this board. I've been a follower since day one, before Craig had his spat with Canon over logo and design. Every time he disbanded the comments and renewed them I would be one of the first to sign back up. I appreciate what he does, I do. I just think that Canon is a very tight lipped company and it means much less entertainment re: speculation than say the micro 4/3 companies or Sony.

The Karma thing is not very useful. It does not relate to any post you make, and so does not indicate agreement or disagreement with anything you say. It seems to be just a popularity indicator which accumulates over time, without a hint towards why you might be popular or unpopular. Or maybe some people have created multiple accounts so that they can "applaud" themselves into apparent popularity.  Anyway ... I applauded you as well  8)

PS ... CR Guy ... A thumbs up or down post by post would be much better than accumulated popularity. That way we could indicate agreement or disagreement with a single click.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: 100 on October 15, 2011, 08:03:34 PM
Now I'm no expert but in researching for my next camera I have spoken to experts & across the board they tell me that the current lenses can't resolve more than around 21 megapixels anyway & that they would be the bottle neck. 
 If this is the case I'm left wondering why anyone would want more mega pixels.  I see that there are many experts on this forum so if the people I've been speaking to are incorrect, although I would find that very hard to believe, please enlighten me.

21mpx on a full frame or 21mpx on a 1.6 crop?
There is a huge difference.   21mpx on a 1.6 crop sensor amounts to about 54 mpx on a full frame sensor (21*1.6*1.6).
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: davidpeter on October 15, 2011, 09:08:37 PM
This may be the very camera I've been waiting for since my 10D. Although is the markIII an incredible one too.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 15, 2011, 09:37:26 PM
I'm no expert but in researching for my next camera I have spoken to experts & across the board they tell me that the current "L" lenses can't resolve more than around 21 megapixels anyway & that they would be the bottle neck. 
 
If this is the case I'm left wondering why anyone would want more mega pixels.  I see that there are many experts on this forum so if the people I've been speaking to are incorrect, although I would find that very hard to believe, please enlighten me.

Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology.  In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust.  But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6).  The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: recon photography on October 15, 2011, 10:01:54 PM
i'm calling Shenanigans on the megapixels
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: niccyboy on October 15, 2011, 10:10:17 PM
I'm a little confused by the logic of announcing and waiting 5 months before releasing.

If they announce a new 1D on Tuesday, they will sell next to NO 1D stock between now and March, as people will wait.

The lower end Rebel etcs wouldn't have this problem as 1k for a body is a far more disposable amount than 5-8k.

People that will purchase a 1D will know the new one is coming, they will know.

Now if there is limited stock, then that again hurts Canon's sales. Why not announce CLOSER to the release date.

I'd understand if it was a NEW product, like the rumoured EF mount video camera, there is currently no predecessor on sale. So the wait builds the hype.

 
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: elflord on October 15, 2011, 10:50:17 PM
Also, what is with people on this forum? My karma keeps going down. I have never flamed a single member of this board. I've been a follower since day one, before Craig had his spat with Canon over logo and design. Every time he disbanded the comments and renewed them I would be one of the first to sign back up. I appreciate what he does, I do. I just think that Canon is a very tight lipped company and it means much less entertainment re: speculation than say the micro 4/3 companies or Sony.

There are some flaws with the "karma" system. There is one website I frequent that does the karma thing quite well (partly because they had some very committed trolls and therefore needed a robust system). The website is slashdot.org. Some of the more useful features are:

(1) It is made explicit that you don't score a poster, you score their post.
(2) Each post starts at +1 for someone who's logged in, 0 for anonymous posters, and +2 for posters who have accumulated karms.
(3) score on the post is the sum of the moderators actions. Post can't go below -1 or +5. This means that you don't get someone being kicked to the kerb for one bad post (because once 3 mods hit your starting score of -2, the post is at -1 and can't go lower). The asymmetry (that is, the fact that you start closer to the bottom of the scale than the top) discourages negative moderation. The fact that it's cumulative prevents the mods from hitting the same post repeatedly.
(4) you only get to be a moderator once your karma reaches a certain level

I think they might also have an additional rule for preventing moderators from moderating and posting in the same thread. It's too bad similar functionality is not available on most of the other web boards I visit -- these features have been deployed on busy websites for a good 10 years or so, it's not as if they're brand new.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Hillsilly on October 15, 2011, 11:18:19 PM

No, and who says that Canon needs to keep the letter D for digital...
All cameras in todays world are Digital and everybody expect no less.

Canon could easily call it 3x or 3s or whatever they like it to call.

There are still plenty of film cameras being made.  Eos 1V comes to mind.  Plus there are a number of medium and large format models.  But, the buyers of these cameras know the difference between film and digital.  Its time for the "D" to go.

On camera names, I much prefer giving models names and not numbers.  At the very minimum, they should stop changing the numbers such as 40D, 50D, 60D - Just keep it 1, 5, 7, 10, 100, 1000 with a version number.

Numbers imply an inherent class structure and planned obsolesence.  They are a marketing tactic to encourage you to buy the latest and greatest by fostering a "Keeping up with the Joneses"mentatlity. 
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Woody on October 15, 2011, 11:18:59 PM
Also, what is with people on this forum? My karma keeps going down. I have never flamed a single member of this board.

Because this forum is no different from others. Someone will smite you as long as he does not agree with your opinion... regardless of how cordial and polite you are. This implementation of karma simply makes little sense... but oh well.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: te4o on October 15, 2011, 11:40:09 PM
I was told by professionals that my lenses could resolve anywhere between 50 and 70 MP, how can you measure that? That's why I departed from L.
I might wait what next EOS is around the corner.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Edwin Herdman on October 15, 2011, 11:53:13 PM
Still not buying this rumor and I think it was a mistake to tie the rumor to the product launch rumor (even if they came packaged together they are two separate things to judge).

I agree with you here. It's a way for Admin (Craig) to prove that the rumor was right even without any solid information.
Well, I don't know that CR Guy intended to prove the rumor, but by posting them together, it allows somebody to take rumors they've heard ("hey, there's gonna be a product announcement") and tie that to some baloney.  Apparently the source is good, though.  However when you have two rumors tied together like that, there's gotta be an opportunity for somebody to intentionally throw in a bad second half, perhaps even to discredit the first rumor or maybe even the site.  Since some people already had their sights on CR, I would be cautious and mentally separate all components of a "single" rumor.

About the karma system...the one rule I always follow is not to give somebody negative karma if they post something directed at me.  I let that get sorted out some other way.  It doesn't seem right to "settle disputes" in that invisible way...for me, the karma system is just a measure of how helpful and 'controversial' a person seems to be, not whether they are good/bad (though if you get too many - marks it does make it harder for people to take you seriously, which is unfortunate).

I was told by professionals that my lenses could resolve anywhere between 50 and 70 MP, how can you measure that? That's why I departed from L.
I might wait what next EOS is around the corner.
Two thoughts:

One, did they say how they were testing the lenses - were they enlarging prints from film, or testing digitally but with professional equipment?

Two, "L" quality isn't just weather sealing, build, and price.  "Sharpness" likewise isn't just how much detail you can resolve in the focus area.  Sharpness is also scene-level contrast:  A lens can have great ability to render details but the whole image takes on a color cast (as if it had the colors turned down and it becomes gray), which is not a good result.  It's also about results throughout the frame - many cheap lenses do not hold up sharpness throughout the frame.  Other things directly impact our perception of sharpness, too; the quality of out-of-focus area blurs and of lens flare is important.  And finally it's harder to get a sharp shot without accurate AF; even if you don't need IS or weather sealing most people would agree you still have to nail the shot.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: mediobarco on October 16, 2011, 12:06:02 AM
3 Digit V, 1 of them only for AF. Max fps (12/14) only with the new serie II lenses.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Woody on October 16, 2011, 12:52:51 AM
3 Digit V, 1 of them only for AF. Max fps (12/14) only with the new serie II lenses.

If the above is true, then that's one way for Canon to keep the current system alive... regardless of how hard people try to sell mirrorless cameras.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on October 16, 2011, 01:19:43 AM
It's funny how much debate there is going on about all this.  Just wait until Tuesday guys!  Then we can actually contribute instead of just guessing and judging other people's guesses.  Just be grateful that there is a fun site like this that posts things that get us all excited - accurate or not!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J. McCabe on October 16, 2011, 06:08:08 AM
My main concern about in Camera GPS is that it does not function well in the reviews I've seen so far, and it eats up batteries. 

I don't object to it, its a good idea, but it would be more attractive if it worked better than what we've seen so far.  The external GPS modules seem to work just fine, but are another item to drag around.

I forgot to add - this needs to be a feature you can turn off.  Sometimes you would prefer not to have images geotagged, and sometimes you do really need the battery life just for shooting.

I do like the way the Nikon one works. It doesn't affect the battery life. It is an attachment and it's cheap.
I think Canon could implement this easily... it is pretty much just recording the GPS location off the attachment, not powering the GPS or doing anything other than recording the lat and long onto the exif, just as it records the time, date, copyright info etc.

AFAIK Canon currently needs the wireless transmitter base to use GPS currently, which is about a grand PLUS the attachment. I may be wrong, but this is what i was told when we were researching our kit and ended up using nikon on that job.

A few random thoughts on the subject of GPS ...

I have one DSLR (granted, not a 1D) for everything, including my vacations. Sometimes, I ask myself where exactly did I take a specific photo, e.g. I know I took it in that restautrant with botanical garden near the border of Texas and Oklahoma, but where *exactly* is that restaurant ? GPS would be really helpful.

If Canon came with an attachment like Nikon's, that would nice, and if it wasn't model specific (read: doesn't need to buy new one when upgrading camera), I would certainly buy one.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Stu_bert on October 16, 2011, 06:10:13 AM
I'm a little confused by the logic of announcing and waiting 5 months before releasing.

If they announce a new 1D on Tuesday, they will sell next to NO 1D stock between now and March, as people will wait.

The lower end Rebel etcs wouldn't have this problem as 1k for a body is a far more disposable amount than 5-8k.

People that will purchase a 1D will know the new one is coming, they will know.

Now if there is limited stock, then that again hurts Canon's sales. Why not announce CLOSER to the release date.

I'd understand if it was a NEW product, like the rumoured EF mount video camera, there is currently no predecessor on sale. So the wait builds the hype.

Helps people plan expenditure, helps avoid migration to a rival product, allows businesses who work on a financial year aligned to the calendar year to have it in the 2012 budget etc.

Take Apple. Everyone knows that once a year a new ipad and iphone is launched. The phone has moved to September but I think that's more to do with iOS 5 than the phone. But that aside, everyone who has a phone, Apple or not, knows when the next one will be available. Great for everyone from a planning perspective. It even helps Apple if I decide to skip a generation, as I know exactly when the next one will be released, so I am likely to stick with them...

Long winded way of saying, although it adds to frustration, most people I think would prefer to know what will be available as it allows them to make decisions. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it would be great if we knew all the Canon (1Dx/5Dx/3Dx) models at the same time, oh and also all the Nikon / Sony equivalents  :D
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 16, 2011, 06:33:49 AM
It's funny how much debate there is going on about all this.  Just wait until Tuesday guys!  Then we can actually contribute instead of just guessing and judging other people's guesses.  Just be grateful that there is a fun site like this that posts things that get us all excited - accurate or not!

But then where's the fun in that?
If we were willing to wait, this would be called canonfacts.com (or just canon.com), speculating is what we do here for the fun of it.

meanwhile, I reckon CRguy knows more than he's saying, he either knows the specs personally, or knows someone who does, but can't say that it's more than "rumour" for fear of breaking an NDA (read: costly professional suicide)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bob Howland on October 16, 2011, 07:03:43 AM
Also, what is with people on this forum? My karma keeps going down. I have never flamed a single member of this board.

Because this forum is no different from others. Someone will smite you as long as he does not agree with your opinion... regardless of how cordial and polite you are. This implementation of karma simply makes little sense... but oh well.

Go over to DPReview. It's even worse, much worse, there. At least here you can hold a somewhat civil debate.

To all those people who don't like my comments about P&S and Rebel owners, perhaps you would like to stop taking it personally and start looking around to the mass of camera owners who bought their cameras from mass marketeers and really don't know what they are doing. There really are a lot of them. Maybe they have better things to do with their time than sit at their computer and debate some not-yet-existent camera. And, yes, I'm as guilty as anybody.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: jouster on October 16, 2011, 07:34:39 AM
To anyone who thinks this is about sales volume and/or dollars of the flagship itself, think again.  The money Canon brings in from their top end cameras is small potatoes compared to their P&S and low and mid range DSLRs.  This issue is the prestige and branding image that comes with the perception that your flagship camera demonstrates technology that exceeds the other brands.  That perception drives sales of the a good portion of the more inexpensive cameras where the money is made.

From what I've seen, most Canon P&S and Rebel owners have no idea that a 1D-series even exists. Furthermore, most Rebel owners seem to leave their camera mode set to that little green box where the camera makes most of the decisions. In short, most of them are very unsophisticated. Most 1D buyers, on the other hand, are much more sophisticated or at least sophisticated enough to know what camera performance parameters are limiting their work. It doesn't seem to be resolution that they find limiting.

This describes all the Rebel owners I know. It also describes the few owners of 7Ds and, yes, 5DIIs I know. Most people don't give a fig about the sort of things we care about. And you know what? That's fine: if my 5DII owning friend wants to keep her camera on the green square, more power to her. She can afford it, and she gets better image quality than she would have with a Rebel.

Canon has many reasons to want to upgrade their pro line, but money is not one of them. I would be surprised if the 1-Series makes *any* profit as a whole.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Polansky on October 16, 2011, 07:47:41 AM

Helps people plan expenditure, helps avoid migration to a rival product, allows businesses who work on a financial year aligned to the calendar year to have it in the 2012 budget etc.

Exactly!
I am a professional photographer (living in the Netherlands) and for this fiscal year I already know that I will make quite some profits. If Canon does indeed announce a new camera by tuesday, then I will be able to order this camera. It also then allows me to book this new camera for this years income tax. Even if the camera itself will only come next year.

If I order now, I will lower my profits for this year and that will prevent me from getting into a higher tax scale. Which is exactly what I want to happen. (because who wants to pay too much tax?  8))
So by ordering the camera now I actually make money by spending it.

With that in mind I actually don't care that this new camera will only be available by the beginning of 2012.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: wockawocka on October 16, 2011, 09:02:07 AM
What Polansky says about Tax is true. If as Pros we have a good year financially then we can buy new equipment and it eats into our taxable profit, reducing the tax we have to pay.

So I would doubt anything later than March because of this.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Speed on October 16, 2011, 10:13:08 AM
21mpx on a full frame or 21mpx on a 1.6 crop?
There is a huge difference.   21mpx on a 1.6 crop sensor amounts to about 54 mpx on a full frame sensor (21*1.6*1.6).


Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology.  In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust.  But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6).  The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.

Thanks for your information guys. :)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on October 16, 2011, 01:08:42 PM
It's funny how much debate there is going on about all this.  Just wait until Tuesday guys!  Then we can actually contribute instead of just guessing and judging other people's guesses.  Just be grateful that there is a fun site like this that posts things that get us all excited - accurate or not!

But then where's the fun in that?
If we were willing to wait, this would be called canonfacts.com (or just canon.com), speculating is what we do here for the fun of it.

meanwhile, I reckon CRguy knows more than he's saying, he either knows the specs personally, or knows someone who does, but can't say that it's more than "rumour" for fear of breaking an NDA (read: costly professional suicide)

I apologize, I should have stressed that there shouldn't be angry arguing.

Also, I'm not sure that he knows anything that he's not saying. I don't think canon people would tell anyone the deal, especially I guy who started a website to disperse rumors!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on October 16, 2011, 01:35:57 PM
I was told by professionals that my lenses could resolve anywhere between 50 and 70 MP, how can you measure that? That's why I departed from L.
I might wait what next EOS is around the corner.

Most lens reviewers (all??) do not have the necessary equipment to test the resolution of a lens.  They put it on a camera body and come up with a figure thats good for that body only.

The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's  MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution).  So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center.  (edges and corners are another matter).  However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor.  We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

The problem in talking about resolution is that you also need to know about abberations, CA's, its a extremely complex subject which is often simplified by discussing center resolution, where even a $120 50mm f/1.8 is very good.

You can buy a very high resolution lens and  still get lousy quality images that are distorted, have CA, flare, abd other issues.

Lens manufacturers have to balance all of these properties and trade off one versus the other.  Thats why the L lenses cost so much, along with Zeiss, Leica, or many other expensive lenses, they are very difficult to manufacture.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J. McCabe on October 16, 2011, 01:41:59 PM
The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's  MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution).  So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center.  (edges and corners are another matter).  However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor.  We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

How about testing with film ? Aren't there any films that are 'sharper' than 21MP ?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: moreorless on October 16, 2011, 01:47:20 PM
Long winded way of saying, although it adds to frustration, most people I think would prefer to know what will be available as it allows them to make decisions. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it would be great if we knew all the Canon (1Dx/5Dx/3Dx) models at the same time, oh and also all the Nikon / Sony equivalents  :D

I wouldnt be supprized if we were something about lower end FF models well ahead of time. You've got alot of pent up demand for the next mid level high megapixel FF body and those users will generally be alot more mobile than 1D/1Ds owners with less invested in lenses so more potentially for them to jump ship to the D800.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Justin on October 16, 2011, 01:53:16 PM
I'm sticking with mirrorless fullframe. I have no idea what that means for lenses. Hopefully they are smaller. We shall see next week sometime. Cannot wait.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on October 16, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
I'm sticking with mirrorless fullframe. I have no idea what that means for lenses. Hopefully they are smaller. We shall see next week sometime. Cannot wait.

Which mirrorless FF are you sticking with?  Canon has made several film models with non moving pellix mirrors (like Sony) over the years, they used the same lenses.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: photogaz on October 16, 2011, 03:06:11 PM
I really don't understand if the lines are being combined doing it like this. It doesn't make sense to drop back on the resolution for the flagship model.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: wockawocka on October 16, 2011, 04:10:46 PM
Maybe:

18th Oct - 1D4x, Bayer sensor, Full frame, Exceptional Lowlight and dynamic range designed to run alongside the 1D4
26th October - 1DS4 - Foveon, huge MP
3rd Nov - Video Cameras and 5D3

With the olympics next year it makes sense to out everything before then to make sure it's wall to wall Canon for 2012, pleases all camps.

If this were to happen it'll be a tough act for any manufacturer to follow.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: mediobarco on October 16, 2011, 04:43:16 PM
The new feature is the 3rd processor dedicated only for de AF system.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Picsfor on October 16, 2011, 04:58:01 PM
The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's  MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution).  So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center.  (edges and corners are another matter).  However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor.  We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

How about testing with film ? Aren't there any films that are 'sharper' than 21MP ?

In a word NO.

I tested my 5D2 alongside my old Canon A1, both using a 50mm f1.8 lens.

I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1. And I have been using an A1 since the late 80's. Had 3 of them at one point.

And if any one is wondering, I did shoot at 12800asa on my old A1, cos that was its top setting. You just couldn't find the film so I had to push 3200asa to achieve it. Great fun and a great reserve option, but not against a 5D2!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: te4o on October 16, 2011, 05:28:43 PM
The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's  MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution).  So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center.  (edges and corners are another matter).  However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor.  We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

How about testing with film ? Aren't there any films that are 'sharper' than 21MP ?
In a word NO.
I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1. And I have been using an A1 since the late 80's. Had 3 of them at one point.

And if any one is wondering, I did shoot at 12800asa on my old A1, cos that was its top setting. You just couldn't find the film so I had to push 3200asa to achieve it. Great fun and a great reserve option, but not against a 5D2!

I did not want to come off-topic on this thread but I think the issue with "matching lens to body and vice versa" is important. If you think this way too let someone start a new thread (I don't know how to do it) after 18 Oct.
To my understanding, n00ne can really say how much a "lens resolves" objectively. MTF charts from Canon are notorious by being based on technical lens design and not on measurement, Zeiss measures MTF but it doesn't reflect reality in comparisons to Nikor and Canon, subjectivity is an issue, we don't have a more than 25 MP sensors ar present, as Picsfor states even film cannot serve as a base.

Edwin points out that there are many other aspects except sharpness and everyone will agree.

What I was after in the discussion about the "NEW DSLR"  is the common regularly occurring situation where you buy a DSLR and buy the best lenses you can afford to serve your purpose... and then 3-4 years later you change the body and notice half of your glass has been upgraded to Mk2 or 3 and the other half is already rumoured and you start saving again.
A new very good DSLR will come with a much higher price than listed to most of us wanting to match our lenses to optimize/maximize performance - it already happened to me in advance but I thought I could jump 10-15 years from now buying lenses capable of resolving more than double the current line.
So, an 18 MP FF is probably saving money in this respect... ::)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: gmrza on October 16, 2011, 05:53:58 PM
The closest thing is the Canon or other manufacturer's  MTF charts which measure contrast, (another way to indicate resolution).  So far, all Canon lenses seem to easily outperform a 21mp FF sensor at least in the center.  (edges and corners are another matter).  However, we won't be able to measure it on a camera unless the camera has a higher MP sensor.  We do use them on a 18mp 7D which requires a far higher resolution than a 5D MK II just fine, but only see the center portion.

How about testing with film ? Aren't there any films that are 'sharper' than 21MP ?

In a word NO.

I tested my 5D2 alongside my old Canon A1, both using a 50mm f1.8 lens.

I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1. And I have been using an A1 since the late 80's. Had 3 of them at one point.

And if any one is wondering, I did shoot at 12800asa on my old A1, cos that was its top setting. You just couldn't find the film so I had to push 3200asa to achieve it. Great fun and a great reserve option, but not against a 5D2!

That was the experience I had recently doing a (less extensive) test of the 5DII against my EOS 650, both using the 50mm f/1.4.  The 5DII out-resolved the EOS650 hands down.  For all the "romance" of shooting film, I am not sure it is worth the tedium.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: april on October 16, 2011, 06:51:43 PM
i'm calling Shenanigans on the megapixels


the 18MP is stil possible as long as this new one will be a 7Ds.......... does anyone agree with me?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: eos650 on October 16, 2011, 08:23:22 PM
That was the experience I had recently doing a (less extensive) test of the 5DII against my EOS 650, both using the 50mm f/1.4.  The 5DII out-resolved the EOS650 hands down.  For all the "romance" of shooting film, I am not sure it is worth the tedium.

What a coincidence. I have a 60D and some new L glass and I am itching for a second body, which I hope will be FF. To tide me over, I pulled out my old EOS650 and went to the store and bought a dozen or so rolls of ISO 200 film. I took both cameras on a couple of shoots, relying primarily on my 60D, but at every opportunity, I snuck in a couple of shots with the EOS650.

After shooting 5 rolls, I had them developed and took them home to scan. I got some great shots with both, but the film images were definitely not as clear and were comparatively disappointing. It's possible that had these been professionally scanned, they may have been  better. In fact I plan to shoot the remaining rolls and will have some of them professionally scanned, to see how much of a difference it makes.

I showed the film pictures to my daughter and she absolutely loved them. She said they looked so old fashioned. Hmmm....

Also, it's rather funny how dependent I have become on the LCD. When shooting with the EOS650, I find myself occasionally looking at the back, wanting to confirm some of my shots.

Not knowing what you are getting certainly adds to the anticipation, while waiting to get them developed.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Justin on October 16, 2011, 08:50:43 PM
I'm sticking with mirrorless fullframe. I have no idea what that means for lenses. Hopefully they are smaller. We shall see next week sometime. Cannot wait.

Which mirrorless FF are you sticking with?  Canon has made several film models with non moving pellix mirrors (like Sony) over the years, they used the same lenses.

The only way I am able to make sense of a camera with these rumored specs is if it is a complete departure from the existing canon lineup. Other rumors on the web (see 4/3 rumors and Photography Bay) suggest a mirror less digital full frame sensor camera from Canon.

By canon releasing a camera like this (mirrorless 35mm size sensor, etc) it is in a way a response to Nikon's mirrorless efforts, just far and away a more professionally oriented tool.

but where are the additional details? More leaked info? Teaser campaign? This doesn't add up for a Tuesday release...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 16, 2011, 09:59:29 PM
Haven't read through all the comments carefully but has anyone thought that maybe this is in fact a 1D5 and the specs are bang on except for one... it will still be APS-H.   A replacement for the 1Ds3 could follow, be announced simultaneously, or perhaps a new line to replace the flagship studio camera.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 16, 2011, 10:18:50 PM
Haven't read through all the comments carefully but has anyone thought that maybe this is in fact a 1D5 and the specs are bang on except for one... it will still be APS-H.   A replacement for the 1Ds3 could follow, be announced simultaneously, or perhaps a new line to replace the flagship studio camera.

In fact, just prior to reading this post, that's what I suggested in the thread on irony.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Doodah on October 16, 2011, 11:08:15 PM

Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology.  In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust.  But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6).  The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.

Thanks for your information guys. :)

This has been brought up gazillion times before in different places. But for unknown reasons, it has failed to gain widespread acceptance. :)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Doodah on October 16, 2011, 11:10:02 PM

I can assure you the 5D2 creamed the best film could offer. Even on low light the 5D2 come out on top convincly. It resulted in me selling my A1.

That was the experience I had recently doing a (less extensive) test of the 5DII against my EOS 650, both using the 50mm f/1.4.  The 5DII out-resolved the EOS650 hands down.  For all the "romance" of shooting film, I am not sure it is worth the tedium.

Thanks for the info. Always curious about this. :)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Doodah on October 16, 2011, 11:13:56 PM
I'm sticking with mirrorless fullframe. I have no idea what that means for lenses. Hopefully they are smaller. We shall see next week sometime. Cannot wait.

If what you say is true, I am most DEFINITELY getting one. A mirrorless fullframe that eliminates the heavy weight from the pentaprism is at the top of my want list. That's just me though... :)

Excited to see what Canon has to show tomorrow
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 16, 2011, 11:30:47 PM
Haven't read through all the comments carefully but has anyone thought that maybe this is in fact a 1D5 and the specs are bang on except for one... it will still be APS-H.   A replacement for the 1Ds3 could follow, be announced simultaneously, or perhaps a new line to replace the flagship studio camera.

In fact, just prior to reading this post, that's what I suggested in the thread on irony.

I haven't been keeping up with reading the posts for a couple of days and as I scanned through all the posts speculating as to why these specs don't make sense it occurred to me that there were a couple of themes... a) resolution is a step back from 1Ds and b) spatial resolution is a step back from 1D4 both of which ring true.  On the assumption the rumour and spec list is not a complete fabrication what 1 change (Occam's Razor) would resolve both issues.  APS-H would do the trick... if so, this spec list fits nicely for a 1D5.

Now that I think about more... a lot of the recent talk on the forum has been that APS-H would be discontinued to the point it may have become assumed to be true so the rumour source and all the comments just assumed it must be FF.

Let's say a new APS-H sensor, even at 18MP, has even better DR, lower noise, and better low-light performance that the 1D4 or 5D2... would it be the perfect sports, wildlife, AND wedding photographer's camera?  16MP maybe wasn't enough for wedding photos but 18MP is closer to the 21MP of the 5D2.

If anything I'm speculating makes sense, this spec list now appeals to a wider market so if Canon could sell it for say $4200 (instead of $5k for the 1D4) would it become the easy choice for working pros over a 5D3... that way Canon can increase the resolution to 30+ MP but keep the AF performance, etc. of 5D3 down to differentiate it and keep it positioned as a landscape, portrait, entry level studio.

Now big question, would they then venture into MF to replace the 1Ds3 as the flagship???
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 17, 2011, 12:38:35 AM
Now big question, would they then venture into MF to replace the 1Ds3 as the flagship???
Short answer, No.
Technically, Canon can release a Medium Format camera tomorrow.
But, and the big butt, is that they'd have to release a completely new line of lenses as well, only the TS-E line would have an image-circle big enough for the bigger sensor. But also, the flange distance would have to be longer than the 44.00mm of the EF line, to accommodate the bigger mirror.
(and there's other things, like the size of the mirror would reduce frame-rates, 2-3fps would be 'fast', megapixels would have to be in the 60-80MP range to compete with current Leaf, PhaseOne, Pentax, and Hasselblad backs, yada yada).

It can happen, I wish it would. But it wouldn't be called EOS, it wouldn't be called 1D(s), and it wouldn't take EF (which is fine if it is *as well* as the 1Ds4, but if MF *replaces* the 1Ds3, there's gonna be a lot of pissed off pros with lots of glass to replace).

I'm definitely thinking more and more that tomorrow will be just a 'boring' 1Dmk5 18MP APS-H @ 14fps upgrade.
But I'm still hoping for an 18*3 FF Foveon-type, which is the only acceptable way to merge the 1D-1Ds while reducing FF res and pixel density. (only other acceptable way to merge 1D-1Ds is to have a 30+MP FF which crops to 16+MP APS-H for faster fps, but i doubt that's coming tomorrow)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Haydn1971 on October 17, 2011, 12:55:40 AM
Cheers Dr Crouble, I had in my mind that MF could be the way forward, but as you explain, the mechanics just wouldn't work the the EF system.  Although, that's not to say MF couldn't happen, it would "just" need a mew lens system !

I kinda like the idea of a digital back system for the 1D/5D ranges, a standard body with a complementary set of digital backs that can be swapped out, fast/low 18 MPx, medium speed 25-30MPx, slow 40+MPx, with AF to suit each.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Old Shooter on October 17, 2011, 01:29:56 AM
It's fascinating to consider digital MF.  I still remember my first photography class in 1974; you shot MF for quality and 35mm for cost/convenience.  However, it seems that the FF sensor capabilities have yet to peak.  Many good images come from the 18MP 7D sensor; yet that same pixel density would yield a 46MP FF.  It would seem that as technology advances, and FF resolution nears some theoretical/practical maximum, purists seeking the ultimate IQ would venture off toward MF...

Just some random thoughts to pass the time; waiting for Tuesday's announcement like everyone else... :P
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Orion on October 17, 2011, 01:43:34 AM
I was searching for any current news or snippets abou the possible 1D mkV . . . . funny how a fake add from 2009 came so close to the announcement on Tuesday, while the post even mentions the amalgamation of the 1D line:

http://forums.mycanikon.com/showthread.php?1704-Canon-1D-MKV
(http://www.pbase.com/dropcivc/image/109140146.jpg)

(my apologies if this has come up before, etc)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Old Shooter on October 17, 2011, 02:46:15 AM
 :o  Wow!  A fake ad from 2009?  Canon should have hired those folks for their R&D/Marketing Team!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 17, 2011, 02:49:01 AM
:o  Wow!  A fake ad from 2009?  Canon should have hired those folks for their R&D/Marketing Team!

They should have hired a spell checker too...  ::)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: cezargalang on October 17, 2011, 03:07:07 AM
ISO 12 (L2) and ISO 50 (L1). So funny
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: DarkKnightNine on October 17, 2011, 04:33:44 AM
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

I've have played with the camera on my new iPhone 4S and it sucks, but I think it's because I got a phone with a bad lens defect or a bad sensor. I get this blue banding in the highlights across all of my images. Taking it back tomorrow. As for the image quality, it's good considering it's camera on a phone but can't begin to touch the IQ of my Canon 1D Mark IV.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: wockawocka on October 17, 2011, 05:04:37 AM
All you guys betting against a new 1Ds MkIV seem to miss that this is exactly what was shown in the Singapore Today ad, a 1Ds. I think we're going to see a 25 year celebration of the EOS mae with some kind of blow everyone away announcement.

Also Canon must know that what happened to Flip is soon going to happen to the entire p&s market. Anyone played with the camera on the new iPhone 4s yet? It'll blow your mind, and will send every camera maker running for the high ground.

I've have played with the camera on my new iPhone 4S and it sucks, but I think it's because I got a phone with a bad lens defect or a bad sensor. I get this blue banding in the highlights across all of my images. Taking it back tomorrow. As for the image quality, it's good considering it's camera on a phone but can't begin to touch the IQ of my Canon 1D Mark IV.

It's the low iso banding of the 4S that really brings it down.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: DarkKnightNine on October 17, 2011, 05:20:53 AM
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

So how is 12 FPS and 61 AF points "less useful" for sports? 

Sports photographers (Pros) use their 1D MK IV cameras along with their 400mm f/2.8 lenses. 

All of a sudden, they will need a 520mm f/2.8 lens to get the same field of view, or crop to a 10MP image rather than the 16mp image they now have once again to get the same field of view.

I'd say that would be less useful for them.

I disagree. Although I'm mainly a fashion/portrait photographer, I occasionally shoot sporting events (like K-1 in Japan), concerts and fashion shows. The benefits of having a FF sensor at a fast frame rate outweigh any loss in focal length do to cropping. FF means greater low light performance via higher ISO with less noise; Higher ISO with less noise means I can push my shutter speeds higher and get a far greater percentage of pictures sharp and in focus. Couple that with 10-12fps and I think any action shooter will tell you that's heaven. If the rumored specs are correct, this is the perfect camera for me and I would sell my two 1D Mark IVs and get two of these cameras. Anything higher than 18MP is just icing on the cake.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: tjshot on October 17, 2011, 05:23:05 AM

Technically, that's true, but it's a tautology.  In fact, no Canon lens can resolve more than about 21 MP, because that's the highest resolution of any Canon sensor, currently. You see the problem, I trust.  But, consider this: if you test the same lens on the 15 MP 50D and the 18 MP 7D, the resolution increases. That's true even with the worst lens tested by DxOMark (the cheapo 75-300mm f/4-5.6).  The relative pixel densities if those cameras were FF would be 38 MP and 46 MP, but even a cheap non-L lens is limited by the sensor, not the lens optics. So, we're a long way from being lens-limited in terms of resolution.

Thanks for your information guys. :)


This has been brought up gazillion times before in different places. But for unknown reasons, it has failed to gain widespread acceptance. :)

In the following post:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,1902.0.html (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,1902.0.html)

 I've proposed a few simulation scenarios that may give the hint on effective performance difference of full frame cameras with 36 Mpxls and 50 Mpxls (same ESOU 7D pitch on full frame).
Results may be interesting as with a very good Prime (think Canon 85mm F 1.8 ) the 36 Mpxls would outperform actual 21 Mpxls one, after proper sharpening, by a  + 10-15 lpm margin at every stop.
With a  50 Mpxls sensor difference would be + 20-25 lpm while dynamic range/noise would still be manageable (think of Canon EOD 7D)
 
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: h-kon on October 17, 2011, 05:33:51 AM
Well, I still think it|s a new 1D series body. Check out the similarities:

Nikon:
D3/D3s - Full frame, high speed(9fps), high ISO, 12mp, pro body
D3x - full frame, low speed, low ISO, 24mp, pro body

In similar, Canons new line might be:
1DV - full frame, high speed (12fps), high ISO, 18mp, pro body
1DVs (or whatever it will be called) - full frame, low speed, high iso, 36mp, pro body

What I'm trying to say here, is that Nikons D3x is their counterpart of Canons 1Ds. If Nikon found a market for a 1Ds-like camera, I guess Canon won't leave this market to them. I don't think we see an amalgamation of the two 1D-cameras, but only that the 1D V is a full frame one.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: mreco99 on October 17, 2011, 06:34:57 AM
Its Monday today, tuesday is apparently the announcement day. I am staggered there are no details leaked already.

How the hell do canon manage to keep 100's of employees and any outside contacts, from leaking some info. I know about NDAs and all that but, a leak is just that an anonomous leak of information, by someone noone can pin anything on.


Either that or nothings being announced tomorrow :-)

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Antiheld on October 17, 2011, 07:07:51 AM
Its Monday today, tuesday is apparently the announcement day. I am staggered there are no details leaked already.

How the hell do canon manage to keep 100's of employees and any outside contacts, from leaking some info. I know about NDAs and all that but, a leak is just that an anonomous leak of information, by someone noone can pin anything on.


Either that or nothings being announced tomorrow :-)

If the people from Canon that know what's going on are few enough, there is never a point where an anonymous leak could take place. I guess they won't tell anything to their usual employees - only the highrollers will know it. And of course these are few - and that's why there are almost no leaks.

Which also makes that whole rumor-thing way funnier and more interesting, I think. :o)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: entertainer on October 17, 2011, 08:09:53 AM
I read:  ‎"Dear Editor,There has been much rumors and discussion among avid photographers, all eagerly anticipating news on the new EOS model. On behalf of Canon Marketing (M*******), we are excited to invite you and / or your journalist to witness the global launch of the new EOS model. For the first time in history, we will be announcing the arrival of our flagship model at the same time as the rest of the world including Tokyo! So make sure you join us on this momentous occasion."

It is for tomorrow. Hence, we could expect it in 12-18 hours.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dstppy on October 17, 2011, 08:15:56 AM
Its Monday today, tuesday is apparently the announcement day. I am staggered there are no details leaked already.

How the hell do canon manage to keep 100's of employees and any outside contacts, from leaking some info. I know about NDAs and all that but, a leak is just that an anonomous leak of information, by someone noone can pin anything on.


Either that or nothings being announced tomorrow :-)

[points to first post]  That's about as leaky as you can expect without someone making up stuff (see every 3rd rumor over the last few months) or Canon trying to save money on press conferences by 'playing telephone' over the internet.

At this point, there's no reason to 'bring anyone in on the secret' until the last minute, so it makes perfect sense that no news is coming out.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: mreco99 on October 17, 2011, 09:05:37 AM
I think its more than just high rollers that know anything. Someone has to build parts for prototypes, make drawings, get marketing ready weeks before the anouncement etc etc. Hats off to Canon, they run a tight ship.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Doodah on October 17, 2011, 09:12:47 AM
I think its more than just high rollers that know anything. Someone has to build parts for prototypes, make drawings, get marketing ready weeks before the anouncement etc etc. Hats off to Canon, they run a tight ship.

Darn right, you are!

Then again, nothing may happen tomorrow save a few printers or point & shoot. LOL.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: surfing_geek on October 17, 2011, 09:13:00 AM
Its Monday today, tuesday is apparently the announcement day. I am staggered there are no details leaked already.

How the hell do canon manage to keep 100's of employees and any outside contacts, from leaking some info. I know about NDAs and all that but, a leak is just that an anonomous leak of information, by someone noone can pin anything on.


Either that or nothings being announced tomorrow :-)

I got told everyone gets locked in the building and they pull the phone lines til they've done the announcement.  They do provide bread and water though ;)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Bateman75 on October 17, 2011, 09:27:47 AM
What time is the announcement? I just wondering if i will wake up to the news or if i will have to wait for them.

I live in mainland europe.

I found out that in Singapore its now Monday 21:30 And in europe its 1530 so chances are that early tomorrow its time to see what canon has up there sleve
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Redreflex on October 17, 2011, 10:57:39 AM
Its Monday today, tuesday is apparently the announcement day. I am staggered there are no details leaked already.


Agree. Somewhat odd isn't it, particularly as it's slated for a multi-continent same-day announcement?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: DarkKnightNine on October 17, 2011, 11:06:09 AM
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

So how is 12 FPS and 61 AF points "less useful" for sports? 

Sports photographers (Pros) use their 1D MK IV cameras along with their 400mm f/2.8 lenses. 

All of a sudden, they will need a 520mm f/2.8 lens to get the same field of view, or crop to a 10MP image rather than the 16mp image they now have once again to get the same field of view.

I'd say that would be less useful for them.

As a photographer who does shoot sports/events, I think we would rather have a camera that could perform well in low light situations i.e. FF rather than the extended range of 1.3 or 1.6 cropped sensor. Low light performance = faster shutter speed. Faster shutter speed = greater percentage of usable shots and at 10-12fps, it would be a godsend. Usable shots are what we get paid for, not how far away we can frame the action.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: AlicoatePhotography on October 17, 2011, 11:14:59 AM
From past release watching.  This seems like a bust for an SLR being announced.  There are usually some photos of parts from manufacturing, released photos from a foreign website, or just more chatter in general.  Seems unlikely.  I am hoping to be proved wrong.  These seem to come out Tuesday morning at midnight NY time.  I will be watching DP review and Canon USA at that time.  Why, I don't really know, it could wait till the morning I guess.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 17, 2011, 11:59:59 AM
From past release watching.  This seems like a bust for an SLR being announced.  There are usually some photos of parts from manufacturing...

If the rumor that availability won't be until March 2012 is correct, they likely wouldn't need to start the production line QC until after the announcement...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Cannon Man on October 17, 2011, 12:03:30 PM
To me an 18mp full frame 1d camera would be useless or not a wise step to replace the 1ds III and if it will not replace it how many years will we have to wait for a new studio camera?? To me this all seems fishy.. I quess tomorrow we'll find out if this was all bs os not.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: nikkito on October 17, 2011, 12:17:03 PM
i might have entered this website around 30 times today waiting for an update that never comes :( :P
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: fred_jb on October 17, 2011, 12:21:32 PM
Well, I still think it|s a new 1D series body. Check out the similarities:

Nikon:
D3/D3s - Full frame, high speed(9fps), high ISO, 12mp, pro body
D3x - full frame, low speed, low ISO, 24mp, pro body

In similar, Canons new line might be:
1DV - full frame, high speed (12fps), high ISO, 18mp, pro body
1DVs (or whatever it will be called) - full frame, low speed, high iso, 36mp, pro body

What I'm trying to say here, is that Nikons D3x is their counterpart of Canons 1Ds. If Nikon found a market for a 1Ds-like camera, I guess Canon won't leave this market to them. I don't think we see an amalgamation of the two 1D-cameras, but only that the 1D V is a full frame one.


I think it is effectively a merger of the 1D and 1Ds pro large body lines, but only in the sense that the next high MP camera probably won't be a 1Ds, and probably won't even be a pro build camera with integral grip.  Instead I suspect it will be the successor to the 5D II, albeit with beefed up AF and features compared with that camera.

We might then get a lower end FF/video optimised camera based on the 18MP 1D FF sensor, thus splitting the 5D line.

I wouldn't be surprised if we also got an MF competitor at some point using a new sensor technology and possibly a new lens mount.

Fred
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: messus on October 17, 2011, 12:21:59 PM
Well, I won't be buying a 18mpx full frame camera. Just not going to happen. I'm sure it'll be great for wedding photogs. It's going to be much less useful for studio, sports, and landscape shooters.

I've said before and I'll repeat. This makes very little sense to me.

Well it makes the absolute perfect sense to me, if this is true it's just what I am looking for,
and I will absolutely buy it, if not two of it !!

I am a landscape photographer, which shoot a lot in the dark. I would gladly switch 3mpx down
for improved ISO / SNR / DR ! 12MPX FF (Nikon D3s) is too little for landscapes/studio, but 18MPX FF
would be enough!

I don't need the 61AF points, but I would gladly pay the extra cost of it IF I get a FF with improved
ISO / SNR / DR !

I might not need 12-14fps, but I still would welcome it for my bird photography!
And a camera with these computing capabilites (Dual Digic V?) means this camera is a speed monster!
Which is great in a lot of other scenarios (USB 3.0, remote USB shooting / transfer, 4K video !!!, timelapse photography etc!)

I very much welcome this camera with the given specs, if it is a FF !!

If this camera is only a APS-H, then it will be a huge dissapointment for me!
(e.g. Since I as a landscape photographer need my 24mm 1.4 lens to be 24mm when working)

Bring it on Canon!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: GeorgeMaciver on October 17, 2011, 12:25:17 PM
The Japanese understand honour, and Japanese employees would not bite the hand that feeds them. I'm not surprised at the lack of leaks. Europe may leak like a sieve, but that's part of why it's sinking. I'm looking forward to having in camera HDR as the G12 offers, in a semi pro DSLR, and have started saving.

 8)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Redreflex on October 17, 2011, 12:31:55 PM
i might have entered this website around 30 times today waiting for an update that never comes :( :P

You may well be in the majority!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Gothmoth on October 17, 2011, 12:59:19 PM
The Japanese understand honour, and Japanese employees would not bite the hand that feeds them.

i call that BS....

you mean like olympus employees?
someone in that company (a japanese) has sure company money in his pocket.

http://www.43rumors.com/woodford-says-company-needs-to-be-cleaned-up-huge-23-value-drop-of-olympus-shares/




Title: Re: Time is ticking...;-)
Post by: pedro on October 17, 2011, 01:14:43 PM
it is 19:14 in Switzerland and 01:14 in Singapore...
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
Enjoy the waiting  8)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on October 17, 2011, 02:14:49 PM
i'm going to laugh ;D (and cry)  :'(  when the announcement is for a new elph that does automatic HDRs.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: unfocused on October 17, 2011, 02:35:10 PM
i'm going to laugh ;D (and cry)  :'(  when the announcement is for a new elph that does automatic HDRs.

I'm still holding out for a new Canon Calculator Mouse.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: waving_odd on October 17, 2011, 03:24:47 PM
If the rumor that availability won't be until March 2012 is correct, they likely wouldn't need to start the production line QC until after the announcement...

Remember this?

http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/09/september-22-announcement-confusion/ (http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/09/september-22-announcement-confusion/)

CR guy said "...As mentioned on other sites, “no leaks… no announcements.” That holds true here as well..."
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: craigkg on October 17, 2011, 03:30:50 PM
Well, I still think it|s a new 1D series body. Check out the similarities:

Nikon:
D3/D3s - Full frame, high speed(9fps), high ISO, 12mp, pro body
D3x - full frame, low speed, low ISO, 24mp, pro body

In similar, Canons new line might be:
1DV - full frame, high speed (12fps), high ISO, 18mp, pro body
1DVs (or whatever it will be called) - full frame, low speed, high iso, 36mp, pro body

What I'm trying to say here, is that Nikons D3x is their counterpart of Canons 1Ds. If Nikon found a market for a 1Ds-like camera, I guess Canon won't leave this market to them. I don't think we see an amalgamation of the two 1D-cameras, but only that the 1D V is a full frame one.

Well, I think Canon has something up their sleeve. The release of the 5D Mark II really cannibalized the entire lineup and was far more popular than they ever expected which I think is necessitating a radical reshaping of the lineup which I expect will be complete by end of next year. Here is where I see things going:

Flagship Class
Pro landscape and studio camera: Canon 645D
  Yes, I think Canon goes digital medium format to regain the 1Ds' top of the line classification. You simply can't do it with more megapixels now. To get the dynamic range, signal to noise and ISO performance people are now expecting out of the top of the line, the only place to go is a larger format. The development of this body and a small set of introductory lenses is probably a partial reason we've seen a dearth of products for a while (the tsunami aside), though I suspect this camera would still have a means of accepting EOS lenses and shooting in a crop mode. Canon has had several lense patents in the last 18 months or so that have been designed with a 645 image circle, which make no sense unless you consider the fact they likely have atleast researched the format if they are not actively developing for its eventual release. I think they start it off at a $10K price point and it falls to $9,000 within 18 months and transforms medium format from being a niche market to a format even within reach of the masses.

Pro wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 1Dx (the camera due tomorrow)
   This will be the 16-18MP camera at the start of the thread. The level of performance people have expected from the 1D Mark IV, but with a full frame sensor and a few extra bells and whistles such as perhaps continuous autofocus in video mode. Price point: $7500.

Semi-Pro Class
landscape and studio camera: Canon 5D Mark III
   This camera will see a modest bump in megapixels if any with the improvements coming in dynamic range and ISO performance. Will still likely be 4-5 fps range. Most people won't be happy with the improved features and increased price failing to realize how big a leap it was to the Mark II, that the Mark III cannot achieve a similar leap in expectations and. This will be the high megapixel full frame camera and the goto body for those that don't want to buy into the 645 format...which means a bump in price. Price point: $3600-4000 body only

wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 3D
   And with its release...RIP 7D. This will not be full frame, but will inherit the APS-H sensor if it is not discontinued. It will have a higher MP count than the 1Dx, but will have a slower frame rate the DR and ISO performance will not be as great. but it will still be better than the 7D. It will be the body for the advanced hobbyists who love the 7D now but purists will groan that it doesn't live up to the legendary mythical 3D moniker. Price point: $2200-2500

Hobbyist/Beginner Class
advanced beginner and hobbyist: Canon 70D
   Take the 60D, add a few MP, bump the frame rate .5 fps, make the viewfinder 98% and say hello to the 60D's successor. Price point: $900-1100

beginners/switchers from P&S world: Rebel T4(i)
   modest upgrade of current T2i and T3 offerings. Price point: $600-800
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J.W. on October 17, 2011, 03:32:03 PM
Hello everybody!

Do you guys know when we can expect the announcement based on GMT?

Thanks
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: waving_odd on October 17, 2011, 03:46:54 PM
Hello everybody!

Do you guys know when we can expect the announcement based on GMT?

Thanks

You can expect the announcement based on NAT.

NAT = Nikon Announcement Time...   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 03:52:34 PM
Well, I still think it|s a new 1D series body. Check out the similarities:

Nikon:
D3/D3s - Full frame, high speed(9fps), high ISO, 12mp, pro body
D3x - full frame, low speed, low ISO, 24mp, pro body

In similar, Canons new line might be:
1DV - full frame, high speed (12fps), high ISO, 18mp, pro body
1DVs (or whatever it will be called) - full frame, low speed, high iso, 36mp, pro body

What I'm trying to say here, is that Nikons D3x is their counterpart of Canons 1Ds. If Nikon found a market for a 1Ds-like camera, I guess Canon won't leave this market to them. I don't think we see an amalgamation of the two 1D-cameras, but only that the 1D V is a full frame one.

Well, I think Canon has something up their sleeve. The release of the 5D Mark II really cannibalized the entire lineup and was far more popular than they ever expected which I think is necessitating a radical reshaping of the lineup which I expect will be complete by end of next year. Here is where I see things going:

Flagship Class
Pro landscape and studio camera: Canon 645D
  Yes, I think Canon goes digital medium format to regain the 1Ds' top of the line classification. You simply can't do it with more megapixels now. To get the dynamic range, signal to noise and ISO performance people are now expecting out of the top of the line, the only place to go is a larger format. The development of this body and a small set of introductory lenses is probably a partial reason we've seen a dearth of products for a while (the tsunami aside), though I suspect this camera would still have a means of accepting EOS lenses and shooting in a crop mode. Canon has had several lense patents in the last 18 months or so that have been designed with a 645 image circle, which make no sense unless you consider the fact they likely have atleast researched the format if they are not actively developing for its eventual release. I think they start it off at a $10K price point and it falls to $9,000 within 18 months and transforms medium format from being a niche market to a format even within reach of the masses.

Pro wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 1Dx (the camera due tomorrow)
   This will be the 16-18MP camera at the start of the thread. The level of performance people have expected from the 1D Mark IV, but with a full frame sensor and a few extra bells and whistles such as perhaps continuous autofocus in video mode. Price point: $7500.

Semi-Pro Class
landscape and studio camera: Canon 5D Mark III
   This camera will see a modest bump in megapixels if any with the improvements coming in dynamic range and ISO performance. Will still likely be 4-5 fps range. Most people won't be happy with the improved features and increased price failing to realize how big a leap it was to the Mark II, that the Mark III cannot achieve a similar leap in expectations and. This will be the high megapixel full frame camera and the goto body for those that don't want to buy into the 645 format...which means a bump in price. Price point: $3600-4000 body only

wedding, sports, photojournalism, wildlife: Canon 3D
   And with its release...RIP 7D. This will not be full frame, but will inherit the APS-H sensor if it is not discontinued. It will have a higher MP count than the 1Dx, but will have a slower frame rate the DR and ISO performance will not be as great. but it will still be better than the 7D. It will be the body for the advanced hobbyists who love the 7D now but purists will groan that it doesn't live up to the legendary mythical 3D moniker. Price point: $2200-2500

Hobbyist/Beginner Class
advanced beginner and hobbyist: Canon 70D
   Take the 60D, add a few MP, bump the frame rate .5 fps, make the viewfinder 98% and say hello to the 60D's successor. Price point: $900-1100

beginners/switchers from P&S world: Rebel T4(i)
   modest upgrade of current T2i and T3 offerings. Price point: $600-800

Very interesting possible breakdown of their line up. However I see a major flaw in it, at least it leaves me unsatisfied: there is no affordable full frame camera. Hell, the 5D MkII sells for $2,400 right now, I don't see how no other full frame camera would take its place in the near future. Unless you're thinking that they'll continue selling the 5D MkII, but at a slightly lower price.

So, I would add a 6D to your lineup, essentially a 5D MkII with less pro-features, slower frame rate, no video, swivel screen, great DR, for about $2,000. That would appeal to lanscape enthusiasts, and people who want to take great photos of their kids - given the same lens, the resulting "perceived" bokeh will look better on a full frame body that on a crop sensor (since the full frame body will let you place your subject closer to the camera at the same aperture).
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J.W. on October 17, 2011, 03:53:33 PM
Hello everybody!

Do you guys know when we can expect the announcement based on GMT?

Thanks

You can expect the announcement based on NAT.


LOL, I'd just like to know if I can wait awake in the night (here it's 10.00 pm) a little bit or sleep over it and find the "surprise-surprise!" tomorrow morning.
To get it short: what time will be in the place where it will be announced?
I'll do the math  ;)

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on October 17, 2011, 04:00:08 PM
i don't understand why everyone thinks canon will completely change the 5D?  It's price point and features are what makes it so popular.  If you raise the price 1-2K then its too far out of reach for most people looking to get one.  If you get rid of the video features then its not a 5D anymore.  They can call it a 5Diii, but it won't be what people have come to love about it.

Also, if they raise the price too much a lot of people are going to go out and buy 5Dii's used.  Canon won't get any of that money.  Sure, the people selling their old ones would have more money to buy newer Canon cameras, but a lot of those people would buy one anyway.

I think it's safe to say that any of us could be right, and any of us could be wrong.  I'm sure that Canon put forth the proper marketing research to find out how to best maximize their profits.  Hopefully, its not with less sales and higher margins but instead higher sales with similar margins.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 04:06:45 PM
i don't understand why everyone thinks canon will completely change the 5D?  It's price point and features are what makes it so popular.  If you raise the price 1-2K then its too far out of reach for most people looking to get one.  If you get rid of the video features then its not a 5D anymore.  They can call it a 5Diii, but it won't be what people have come to love about it.

Also, if they raise the price too much a lot of people are going to go out and buy 5Dii's used.  Canon won't get any of that money.  Sure, the people selling their old ones would have more money to buy newer Canon cameras, but a lot of those people would buy one anyway.

I think it's safe to say that any of us could be right, and any of us could be wrong.  I'm sure that Canon put forth the proper marketing research to find out how to best maximize their profits.  Hopefully, its not with less sales and higher margins but instead higher sales with similar margins.

I totally agree. I was saying maybe no video if it can make it affordable. I don't see why Canon would kill the recipe for one of their all-time best sellers. May you be right. 5D mkIII at the same price as the mkII currently, with better everything. I'd buy it.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on October 17, 2011, 04:08:19 PM
i don't understand why everyone thinks canon will completely change the 5D?  It's price point and features are what makes it so popular.  If you raise the price 1-2K then its too far out of reach for most people looking to get one.  If you get rid of the video features then its not a 5D anymore.  They can call it a 5Diii, but it won't be what people have come to love about it.

Also, if they raise the price too much a lot of people are going to go out and buy 5Dii's used.  Canon won't get any of that money.  Sure, the people selling their old ones would have more money to buy newer Canon cameras, but a lot of those people would buy one anyway.

I think it's safe to say that any of us could be right, and any of us could be wrong.  I'm sure that Canon put forth the proper marketing research to find out how to best maximize their profits.  Hopefully, its not with less sales and higher margins but instead higher sales with similar margins.

I totally agree. I was saying maybe no video if it can make it affordable. I don't see why Canon would kill the recipe for one of their all-time best sellers. May you be right. 5D mkIII at the same price as the mkII currently, with better everything. I'd buy it.

Same here - i'd sell a kidney if i didn't have the money for it.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: craigkg on October 17, 2011, 04:18:47 PM

Very interesting possible breakdown of their line up. However I see a major flaw in it, at least it leaves me unsatisfied: there is no affordable full frame camera. Hell, the 5D MkII sells for $2,400 right now, I don't see how no other full frame camera would take its place in the near future. Unless you're thinking that they'll continue selling the 5D MkII, but at a slightly lower price.

So, I would add a 6D to your lineup, essentially a 5D MkII with less pro-features, slower frame rate, no video, swivel screen, great DR, for about $2,000. That would appeal to lanscape enthusiasts, and people who want to take great photos of their kids - given the same lens, the resulting "perceived" bokeh will look better on a full frame body that on a crop sensor (since the full frame body will let you place your subject closer to the camera at the same aperture).

As a current 5D Mark II owner I would agree being dissatisfied with now affordable full frame. I just have a hard time seeing Canon not trying to push people into a higher price point. Sure it will decrease FF sales, but will push people into the "3D" sales, which I'd expect to be quite brisk. If this were to come into fruition, I myself would be hard press to buy the 5D3 upgrade and would probably hang onto my 5D2 until the 645 came down in price. If the next 5D were in the same $2400-2800 range, I'd likely sell the 5D2 and buy the new one.  My assessment isn't a matter of wishful thinking for the products I want to buy, but rather what i think Canon is likely to do. With a FF 1D, they have to take the 1Ds line to a higher level, which I think means they will have to go 645. But they will want to have a higher $$$ FF camera for those that don't want to make the 645 jump and the 5D line is the obvious choice with its already high megapixel count, video features and great image quality. The 5D climbs up the scale in prestige and with that move up comes the higher price. Maybe I'll be wrong and the APS-H will go away completely and the 7D's successor will be full frame at the current 5D mark II's price point. I just know that something has to give in the lineup because the current model breakdown is not sustainable.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 04:33:19 PM
You said it yourself: "If the next 5D were in the same $2400-2800 range, I'd likely sell the 5D2 and buy the new one.  "

There you go. Canon sells you an update to your mkII, and it sells me an upgrade from my 7D.
And reciprocally, if they make a more expensive 5D mkiii, you hang on to your mkII (no sales for Canon), and I can't upgrade my 7D (too expensive for the "99%").

I don't understand your logic.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: kirispupis on October 17, 2011, 04:39:08 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Canon someday enters MF, but I seriously doubt it would factor into their 35mm SLR plans.  The problem with a medium format camera isn't just that an "affordable" one would run about $10k right now.  The problem is buying those lenses.  Each lens will likely run $2k - $5k (assuming no big telephotos) and only high end studio/fashion photographers will realistically be able to make the jump.  This would be well out of the reach of most landscape photographers not named Peter Lik.

Most of the landscape photographers I know would be perfectly happy with a 35mm camera with a high MP count.  Many of them shoot on a tripod at ISO 100 so the image quality losses at higher ISO's wouldn't bother them as much.

I do not see a merging of the 1D + 1Ds lines in the near future in terms of having one camera that has both high MP and a high frame rate.  The processing power for these large photos just isn't there yet.  Of course, I could see Canon release a FF 1D5 with specs similar to those expected, but not release a 1Ds model.  Canon may choose to keep the 5D as their high MP camera as many of the 1 series features aren't really needed by landscape photographers.  I suspect they would be very happy with a 36 MP 5D3 that has weather sealing and 7 shot bracketing.

I also agree that the next 5D will not change significantly.  It will be around the same price and will have more evolutionary changes in terms of more MP and the AF of the 7D.  If Canon does add weather sealing and bracketing though, it may be a sign that the 1Ds line is history.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: craigkg on October 17, 2011, 04:45:00 PM
You said it yourself: "If the next 5D were in the same $2400-2800 range, I'd likely sell the 5D2 and buy the new one.  "

There you go. Canon sells up an update to your mkII, and it sells me an upgrade from my 7D. What's not to like from a sales point of view? I don't understand your logic.

The people that own 1Ds Mark III's will want to get the next generation and that leaves them with the choice of buying a $10K 645 system and new lenses or getting a 5D. The logic is, a fair number will opt to keep their lenses and buy a 5D rather than spend a fortune going the 645 route. Canon is going to want to maximize the amount of mover it can get from people that have the money for a 1Ds Mark III but don't want to buy a 645...that logically means that the next 5D will be more to milk atleast some more money out of those shooters used to paying $7000-9000 for a camera body. You have to look at this from both directions, the people moving up to a higher body and those with the higher body (1Ds3) moving laterally to the 1Ds Mark III's small format successor...which I think the next 5D will be because of the close proximity the 1Ds mark III and 5D Mark II already have. The 5D is going to complete the cannibalization and become the small format's high megapixel king.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 04:45:38 PM
Most of the landscape photographers I know would be perfectly happy with a 35mm camera with a high MP count.  Many of them shoot on a tripod at ISO 100 so the image quality losses at higher ISO's wouldn't bother them as much.

Yep. Absolutely. Give me that + a higher dynamic range, or some new RAW format that would allow for easier HDR. Oh, and an embedded ND filter for those waterfalls, haha!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: DarkKnightNine on October 17, 2011, 04:46:29 PM
It's now the morning of Tuesday the 18th here in Japan which subsequently also means Singapore as well. Anyone know what time this "Global Announcement" is supposed to be made?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 04:48:14 PM
You said it yourself: "If the next 5D were in the same $2400-2800 range, I'd likely sell the 5D2 and buy the new one.  "

There you go. Canon sells up an update to your mkII, and it sells me an upgrade from my 7D. What's not to like from a sales point of view? I don't understand your logic.

The people that own 1Ds Mark III's will want to get the next generation and that leaves them with the choice of buying a $10K 645 system and new lenses or getting a 5D. The logic is, a fair number will opt to keep their lenses and buy a 5D rather than spend a fortune going the 645 route. Canon is going to want to maximize the amount of mover it can get from people that have the money for a 1Ds Mark III but don't want to buy a 645...that logically means that the next 5D will be more to milk atleast some more money out of those shooters used to paying $7000-9000 for a camera body. You have to look at this from both directions, the people moving up to a higher body and those with the higher body (1Ds3) moving laterally to the 1Ds Mark III's small format successor...which I think the next 5D will be because of the close proximity the 1Ds mark III and 5D Mark II already have. The 5D is going to complete the cannibalization and become the small format's high megapixel king.

You really think that, from a marketing standpoint, it makes more sense to push the biggest spenders / pros to downgrade their equipment "line" rather than to try to upsell the vast majority of photographers? 1D / 1Ds account for a very small fraction of their customers base. They are not the ones that made the 5D i/ii so popular!

What you're saying is that the 5D MkIII will essentially be the new 1Ds.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: craigkg on October 17, 2011, 05:06:01 PM
You said it yourself: "If the next 5D were in the same $2400-2800 range, I'd likely sell the 5D2 and buy the new one.  "

There you go. Canon sells up an update to your mkII, and it sells me an upgrade from my 7D. What's not to like from a sales point of view? I don't understand your logic.

The people that own 1Ds Mark III's will want to get the next generation and that leaves them with the choice of buying a $10K 645 system and new lenses or getting a 5D. The logic is, a fair number will opt to keep their lenses and buy a 5D rather than spend a fortune going the 645 route. Canon is going to want to maximize the amount of mover it can get from people that have the money for a 1Ds Mark III but don't want to buy a 645...that logically means that the next 5D will be more to milk atleast some more money out of those shooters used to paying $7000-9000 for a camera body. You have to look at this from both directions, the people moving up to a higher body and those with the higher body (1Ds3) moving laterally to the 1Ds Mark III's small format successor...which I think the next 5D will be because of the close proximity the 1Ds mark III and 5D Mark II already have. The 5D is going to complete the cannibalization and become the small format's high megapixel king.

You really think that, from a marketing standpoint, it makes more sense to push the biggest spenders / pros to downgrade their equipment "line" rather than to try to upsell the vast majority of photographers? 1D / 1Ds account for a very small fraction of their customers base. They are not the ones that made the 5D i/ii so popular!

What you're saying is that the 5D MkIII will essentially be the new 1Ds.

And what I am saying is that the 5D3 will not be a downgrade for 1Ds3 users, it will be an upgrade because in many respects (e.g. video) the 5D2 is already an upgrade of the 1Ds3. The deal breaker for the pros is it isn't weather sealed and doesn't have dual card slots. In essence I am saying the 1Ds is going away as a name and the 5D Mark III will be its replacement simply because there isn't enough room to both upgrade the 5D Mark II and 1Ds Mark III without them being so similar that people would rather buy the 5D3. Canon isn't going to develop a new 1Ds if the 5D's next model is going to cannibalize its sales all over again, but is also isn't going to ignore the fact that 1Ds3 users will want some of those 1Ds3 features in the next small format megapixel king, like weather sealing, expanded capabilities in firmware (eg. 7 shot AEB, etc) and maybe dual card slots. Those upgrades in the 5D line will not be free. It will push the 5D price higher. They won't use the 1Ds name for the next 5D either because that is reserved for the top of the line and with a 645 system, it won't be the top of the line. They can't really create a new camera with a different name to position above the 5D without having the same problem as the 5D2 and 1Ds3 currently have and they certainly can't drop the specs of the 5D line to position it as the affordable FF camera. The next affordable ($2000-3000) full frame camera won't likely be a 5D, it will be a 3D/7D mark II/6D/9D/etc.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 05:09:30 PM
OK, it makes sense now.

Well, I hope something will take the place of the current 5D mkII price point / capabilities, with some minor upgrades. Because I sure as hell can't afford 3-4K on a body.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: DarkKnightNine on October 17, 2011, 05:17:48 PM
I think its more than just high rollers that know anything. Someone has to build parts for prototypes, make drawings, get marketing ready weeks before the anouncement etc etc. Hats off to Canon, they run a tight ship.

Yeah it seems they been taking tips from Apple i.e. keep everyone guessing until the very last minute (including their own employees).
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Picsfor on October 17, 2011, 05:34:14 PM
If it helps any...

Nikon rumours have taken to asking Siri about the D800  : :o
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Cojonasso on October 17, 2011, 05:53:21 PM
Tomorrow morning at 4.00 GMT the announcement. No merging between 1D-1Ds.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 05:56:09 PM
Tomorrow morning at 4.00 GMT the announcement. No merging between 1D-1Ds.

First post, huh. And you know that...how?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J.W. on October 17, 2011, 05:57:22 PM
Tomorrow morning at 4.00 GMT the announcement. No merging between 1D-1Ds.

source for the time of announcement?

thanks in advance
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 05:58:48 PM
Tomorrow morning at 4.00 GMT the announcement. No merging between 1D-1Ds.

source for the time of announcement?

thanks in advance

I think he's just trolling.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J.W. on October 17, 2011, 06:02:27 PM
Tomorrow morning at 4.00 GMT the announcement. No merging between 1D-1Ds.

source for the time of announcement?

thanks in advance

I think he's just trolling.

Given the nickname (a bad word for big testicle in a mixed italian-spanish vulgar language), I would think so.

But...who knows?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 06:03:50 PM
Is anybody else refreshing their CR home page every 5 minutes?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: nikkito on October 17, 2011, 06:05:44 PM
Is anybody else refreshing their CR home page every 5 minutes?
I am! :)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: surfing_geek on October 17, 2011, 06:08:54 PM
me too! ;D bed time soon though, so hopefully some nice surprises in the morning!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: traveller on October 17, 2011, 06:14:56 PM
Tomorrow morning at 4.00 GMT the announcement. No merging between 1D-1Ds.

I'm struggling to see anything being released at all, let alone being able to predict 0400GMT. It's been seriously quiet over the last few days compared to before the 1D Mk4 was released.  Still, there are some people on this forum who seem to have re-written Canon's entire lineup based upon this rumour. 

I hope for Craig's sake that something is released, otherwise he might face lynch mobs now that he's revealed his true identity; I guess that's why superheroes are always so coy (apart from Superman, for whom a pair of NHS specs and not wearing his undies over his trousers seems to suffice).

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: nikkito on October 17, 2011, 06:15:14 PM
So, I'm going to sleep. Hopefully tomorrow we'll see a new EOS. I really don't want take photos with a printer, if you get what I mean ;)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: rocketdesigner on October 17, 2011, 06:20:09 PM
Tomorrow morning at 4.00 GMT the announcement. No merging between 1D-1Ds.


I hope for Craig's sake that something is released, otherwise he might face lynch mobs now that he's revealed his true identity; I guess that's why superheroes are always so coy (apart from Superman, for whom a pair of NHS specs and not wearing his undies over his trousers seems to suffice).

Which is why I applauded cr guy for making the CR3 prediction (even though I was stabbed with a smite by some knucklehead).

He deserves credit for taking the plunge...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 06:24:38 PM
cr guy better not be wrong about this one, for nobody would ever let him forget a false CR3.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: gtp on October 17, 2011, 06:29:55 PM
EDIT: Never  mind, as his been pointed out since this was posted this is an older Canon 1 film camera. I got duped.

http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

1V is up on Canon Japan's site.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: rocketdesigner on October 17, 2011, 06:32:10 PM
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

1V is up on Canon Japan's site.

Here is translation:

EOS-1V Body Opening Price

Product price is not set to open retail price.
Model: EOS-Published 1V /: 2043A002
JAN code :4960999 -124 001
EOS-1V HS Body (Standard Power Drive Booster PB-E2) Open Price

Product price is not set to open retail price.
Model: EOS-Published 1VHS /: 2044A004
JAN code :4960999 -124 049
Key Features

Dust and splash-proof magnesium alloy exterior performance. Basic performance enhancements.
Operability inherited from the EOS-1 maturation.
Good crisp clarity, 100% ※ about viewfinder coverage.
9.11.45 AF points. Advanced ease of use, the AF area mature.
Metering and exposure control of eight of nine, starting with evaluative metering division 21.
Motion prediction of the second shooting 9 frames / sec high-speed continuous shooting about 10 frames / approx. (EOS-1V HS · Ni-MH Pack NP when using E2)
Custom Function 63 Items 20 full species.
Enables more granular customization. Personal Function 31 species.
Supports advanced flash photography. Advanced E-automatic dimming system with TTL.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: nikkito on October 17, 2011, 06:34:10 PM
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

1V is up on Canon Japan's site.

Looks fake to me.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 17, 2011, 06:34:17 PM
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

1V is up on Canon Japan's site.

Has been for the last 11 years...  ::)
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eosd/lineup/index.html has the Digital EOS cameras, same usual suspects there...

By my watch, it's 9am in Australia. That makes it 630am in Singapore, so another 4 hours at least to go. It's 1030pm monday UTC, so 0030 in Amsterdam, another 16 hours to go there.

*goes back to taking photos to kill time*
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: djw on October 17, 2011, 06:36:46 PM
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

1V is up on Canon Japan's site.

Too bad it's missing the 'D' ;-)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: gtp on October 17, 2011, 06:38:48 PM
Yep, that was just pointed out to me. Somebody had posted it on the DP Review forums, and I hadn't seen it here, so I thought I was being helpful, when in reality, I was just spreading someone else's trolling efforts (unless, it was legitimately posted mistakenly there, as well). My apologies.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Doodah on October 17, 2011, 06:41:12 PM
I do not understand why people always associate dynamic range with pixel size. The Nikon D7000 has wider dynamic range than the Canon 5D despite the smaller pixel size.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: htjunkie on October 17, 2011, 06:43:15 PM
I do not understand why people always associate dynamic range with pixel size. The Nikon D7000 has wider dynamic range than the Canon 5D despite the smaller pixel size.

Uuuh, where did you see that people associate DR with pixel size? As I understand it, DR is the amount of different stops (from lowest to highest) the camera can record on one shot.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: rocketdesigner on October 17, 2011, 06:53:11 PM
Yep, that was just pointed out to me. Somebody had posted it on the DP Review forums, and I hadn't seen it here, so I thought I was being helpful, when in reality, I was just spreading someone else's trolling efforts (unless, it was legitimately posted mistakenly there, as well). My apologies.

Well, you got me excited ... even though the translation was a bunch of junk ???
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: waving_odd on October 17, 2011, 07:08:13 PM
The Today Online Singapore has already post its Oct 18th edition online.

http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20111018/1810VOP021.pdf (http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20111018/1810VOP021.pdf)

I can only see a PIXMA MX886 printer.....................

Don't you guys think it's weird that they bought 4-page ads last week and it's not showcasing anything on a day of what they are supposed to surprise everyone?!  Unless there is nooooooothing to announce..........................   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Isn't there another Canon announcement scheduled in Netherland?  What's up with that one??
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 17, 2011, 07:09:23 PM
I do not understand why people always associate dynamic range with pixel size. The Nikon D7000 has wider dynamic range than the Canon 5D despite the smaller pixel size.

Uuuh, where did you see that people associate DR with pixel size? As I understand it, DR is the amount of different stops (from lowest to highest) the camera can record on one shot.

Dynamic Range is the ratio of the largest to smallest signal that can be recorded.  The largest signal is the maximum number of electrons that the photosite can hold (full well capacity) and that scales with the size (area) of the photosite.  Therefore, DR does go up with the size of the photosite for a given noise level.

Important to note that the size of the photosite (the light sensitive part) is not the full size of the pixel... the amount of space it takes up is called the "fill factor" and has typically been less than 50% but that may have been something that Sony has improved upon.

The Sony sensor in the D7000 was a great improvement because the the full well capacity is almost as high as the 5D (the 5D2 is larger).  The read-noise at ISO 100 was also reduced in the Sony sensor.  The net result is that the D7000 has a very large DR.

Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: J.W. on October 17, 2011, 07:16:17 PM
The Today Online Singapore has already post its Oct 18th edition online.

http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20111018/1810VOP021.pdf (http://imcmsimages.mediacorp.sg/CMSFileserver/documents/006/PDF/20111018/1810VOP021.pdf)

I can only see a PIXMA MX886 printer.....................

Don't you guys think it's weird that they bought 4-page ads last week and it's not showcasing anything on a day of what they are supposed to surprise everyone?!  Unless there is nooooooothing to announce..........................   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Isn't there another Canon announcement scheduled in Netherland?  What's up with that one??

Nothing weird at all, the official announcement has still to be made.
No way people read on the newspaper the BIG new (whatever it will be) before the official release.

Still waiting
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 17, 2011, 07:19:28 PM
I've been trolling canon's japan/aus/singapore websites for accidental leakings of pages before the announcement (like when the 6D showed up on the aus site a month ago). No luck. So I think they learnt their lesson from that...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: fotografiasi on October 17, 2011, 07:22:02 PM
this eos-1V is a weird camera. It has 45 AF point from which only 7 are cross type. The 7 are arranged in in center from top to bottom so it does not seem a great improvement from the 5D mk ii. It would have been good to have the cross type point arranged in cross, so at least 2 to be available on the extreme left and right. The area the AF points take seems to be the same as with the 1Ds mk iii, so they are not really spread but stay in the center. I am still trying to understand what the Japanese said
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: fotografiasi on October 17, 2011, 07:25:17 PM
I am  :o and to much  ::) expecting the new release from Canon. I thought that the eos-1v is what they jsut released  :D
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Smith on October 17, 2011, 07:49:26 PM
I do not understand why people always associate dynamic range with pixel size. The Nikon D7000 has wider dynamic range than the Canon 5D despite the smaller pixel size.

Uuuh, where did you see that people associate DR with pixel size? As I understand it, DR is the amount of different stops (from lowest to highest) the camera can record on one shot.

Dynamic Range is the number of stops you have from the darkest to the lightest tones. If you have a larger number of electrons (ie larger well capacity) it's easier to differentiate the different tonal values. You could also try to make a more accurate A/D converter or optimize the pathway up to the conversion stage. You could also try to other ways to minimize noise so that you don't need as many electrons to separate your levels. If you can keep the sensor temperature low it makes your job easier.  In a perfect world you can have 12 stops using just 12 electrons and cell phones would have great DR.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 17, 2011, 07:55:51 PM
In a perfect world you can have 12 stops using just 12 electrons and cell phones would have great DR.

No.  A stop is defined as doubling of the signal.  So let's say your noise floor was 1 electron... then you'd have less than 4 stops by the time you got to 12 electrons.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Smith on October 17, 2011, 08:01:51 PM
In a perfect world you can have 12 stops using just 12 electrons and cell phones would have great DR.

No.  A stop is defined as doubling of the signal.  So let's say your noise floor was 1 electron... then you'd have less than 4 stops by the time you got to 12 electrons.

yes, you are correct.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: anesh on October 17, 2011, 08:27:49 PM
 :( why 18mp ........................................ :(
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: kirispupis on October 17, 2011, 08:59:33 PM
BTW, for those interested in when this announcement will actually be, I could not find any references online to a time but in the past almost all of Canon's major DSLR announcements have come at 04:00 GMT.  The only exception was the 1D4 which came at 08:30 GMT - at least according to DPReview.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: RichST on October 17, 2011, 09:20:57 PM
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

Seriously, a 1-VHS? Are they expecting Sony to counter with an Alpha-Betamax?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: adamfilip on October 17, 2011, 09:27:10 PM
:( why 18mp ........................................ :(

I would go for 18mp clean pixels over 36mp noisy pixels any day
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: kevinmphoto on October 17, 2011, 09:32:00 PM
Quote
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

Seriously, a 1-VHS? Are they expecting Sony to counter with an Alpha-Betamax?

Okay, I have to say the 1v was a great Canon Film camera from not that long ago!!!!   THAT'S NOT NEW NEWS....
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Canon 14-24 on October 17, 2011, 09:35:16 PM
2.5 hours to go!
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: ddg1263 on October 17, 2011, 09:38:48 PM
Quote
BTW, for those interested in when this announcement will actually be, I could not find any references online to a time but in the past almost all of Canon's major DSLR announcements have come at 04:00 GMT.  The only exception was the 1D4 which came at 08:30 GMT - at least according to DPReview.

If my conversion is correct 04:00 GMT is 11:00 PM EST. I highly doubt that anyone would make an announcement at 11:00 Est. Look they may or may not make an announcement. Either way it is not that big of a deal. It is more fun to imagine what would be released than to actually get something!  If they don’t announce tomorrow, they will announce something eventually.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Zuuyi on October 17, 2011, 09:39:04 PM
BTW, for those interested in when this announcement will actually be, I could not find any references online to a time but in the past almost all of Canon's major DSLR announcements have come at 04:00 GMT.  The only exception was the 1D4 which came at 08:30 GMT - at least according to DPReview.

Sounds like the right time to me. It will be 0:00 EST so that would be all 7 continents on 10/18/11.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: adamfilip on October 17, 2011, 09:39:36 PM
2.5 hours to go!

what time is it suppose to start? noon SGT?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: RichST on October 17, 2011, 09:42:42 PM
Quote
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

Seriously, a 1-VHS? Are they expecting Sony to counter with an Alpha-Betamax?

Okay, I have to say the 1v was a great Canon Film camera from not that long ago!!!!   THAT'S NOT NEW NEWS....

hehe, yeah should have run it through the translator. For just a second there I thought Canon was crazier than Nikon (but still saber than Sigma)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Doodah on October 17, 2011, 09:46:03 PM
The Malaysian and Singapore announcement time is scheduled at 12 noon (UTC+8).
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 17, 2011, 09:46:47 PM
2.5 hours to go!

what time is it suppose to start? noon SGT?

If it's going to start at 0400 UTC/GMT (ie in another 2:15) as has apparently been tradition, that makes it 1200 Singapore time, 1430 Aussie time (the parts of Aus that matter anyway), 1300 Tokyo Time, 0600 Western Europe (Berlin time), midnight New York, 9pm monday in LA, etc.

Yes, i'm so bored waiting for this that i've been messing around on timeanddate.com.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 17, 2011, 09:49:04 PM
Quote
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

Seriously, a 1-VHS? Are they expecting Sony to counter with an Alpha-Betamax?

Okay, I have to say the 1v was a great Canon Film camera from not that long ago!!!!   THAT'S NOT NEW NEWS....

I'm hanging out for the Super-8D ::)

(at least i got the joke)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: AprilForever on October 17, 2011, 09:53:54 PM
I cannot wait!!! ;D Wait a minute... I don't know when I'll be able to afford it...  :'(

On a serious note, I hope the technology trickles down to the 7D mkII soon... And hopefully a few more megapixels! (Songbirds are never big enough...)
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Justin on October 17, 2011, 09:54:44 PM
Quote
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1v/index.html

Seriously, a 1-VHS? Are they expecting Sony to counter with an Alpha-Betamax?

Okay, I have to say the 1v was a great Canon Film camera from not that long ago!!!!   THAT'S NOT NEW NEWS....

I'm hanging out for the Super-8D ::)

(at least i got the joke)

Wasting away for an Ultra 16D
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 17, 2011, 10:01:29 PM
BTW, for those interested in when this announcement will actually be, I could not find any references online to a time but in the past almost all of Canon's major DSLR announcements have come at 04:00 GMT.  The only exception was the 1D4 which came at 08:30 GMT - at least according to DPReview.

Sounds like the right time to me. It will be 0:00 EST so that would be all 7 continents on 10/18/11.

That could be part of their consideration... by 0:00 EST at least part of North America will be on to the 18th.  They could wait 3 more hours, 4pm Japan time, so that all of the Continental US is on the 18th but then they wouldn't make the morning papers in New York.  Maybe they just like 1pm Japan time when they get back from lunch.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Meh on October 17, 2011, 10:01:58 PM
2.5 hours to go!

what time is it suppose to start? noon SGT?

If it's going to start at 0400 UTC/GMT (ie in another 2:15) as has apparently been tradition, that makes it 1200 Singapore time, 1430 Aussie time (the parts of Aus that matter anyway), 1300 Tokyo Time, 0600 Western Europe (Berlin time), midnight New York, 9pm monday in LA, etc.

Yes, i'm so bored waiting for this that i've been messing around on timeanddate.com.

LOL I was just on there as well.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: adamfilip on October 17, 2011, 10:06:31 PM
hmm.. hard to stay optimistic.. that anything will get announced.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: mikeeick on October 17, 2011, 10:29:20 PM
Hi everybody,

are you sleeping, guys?!  ;)

the new EOS will be called EOS 1D X as already revealed by this press release about the 50-million-EOS-&70-million-EF-milestone (s. 5th passage):

http://www.canon.com/news/2011/oct18e.html

It´s allowed to be excited...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: keithfullermusic on October 17, 2011, 10:33:27 PM
now we need specs for the 1DX
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: ThatCanonGuy on October 17, 2011, 10:34:02 PM
What time tonight on the east coast?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: mikeeick on October 17, 2011, 10:38:12 PM
No specs so far...

I´ve just checked several canon pages (japan, singapore,...).

So, we´ll have to wait a little more. But I´m absolutely sure they´ll announce this camera TODAY.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Zuuyi on October 17, 2011, 10:41:35 PM
What time tonight on the east coast?

Midnight.  And yep the specs on the 1D X would be helpful.
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: dr croubie on October 17, 2011, 10:52:43 PM
Hi everybody,

are you sleeping, guys?!  ;)

the new EOS will be called EOS 1D X as already revealed by this press release about the 50-million-EOS-&70-million-EF-milestone (s. 5th passage):

http://www.canon.com/news/2011/oct18e.html

It´s allowed to be excited...

a) that's canon.com, so i'm treating the 1DX name as fact (some people already noted that it's the tenth 1-series and speculated the 1DX, well done there.

but b), 70million EF lenses since 1987? They had 50 million only a year ago. Nikon just announced 65 million F-mount since 1959, looks like the red camp is winning...
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: CanineCandidsByL on October 17, 2011, 11:58:39 PM
If I understand correctly, live coverage of speech
http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/2011-CP-Plus-Digital-Cameras.htm (http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/2011-CP-Plus-Digital-Cameras.htm)
with English translation

I'm heading there now.



Sorry, my bad...old news.  Anyone know if we can get live coverage anywhere?
Title: Re: The New EOS [CR3]
Post by: Redreflex on October 18, 2011, 12:13:44 AM
Fantastic call CR guy.. when it really mattered!