canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => Third Party Manufacturers => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on January 06, 2014, 06:06:37 PM

Title: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Canon Rumors on January 06, 2014, 06:06:37 PM

LAS VEGAS– Jan. 6, 2014 – Sigma Corporation of America, a leading researcher, developer, manufacturer and service provider of some of the world’s most impressive lines of lenses, cameras and flashes, today announced the launch of two new Global Vision lenses from the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.


The improved and redesigned 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM and 50mm F1.4 DG HSM lenses are the latest additions to Sigma’s Global Vision lineup. Both lenses’ availability and pricing have yet to be announced.


“These two lenses are among our most popular, and we’re pleased to reintroduce these products by adding them to our Global Vision lineup,” said Mark Amir-Hamzeh, president of Sigma Corporation of America. “The 18-200mm, in particular, is an exciting new lens as it now has macro functionality, updated optics and a Global Vision design, making it a fantastic alternative to the kit lens. As has been the case with our recent Global Vision lenses, we expect an array of photographers to gravitate to their technically advanced features and slick new look.”


The 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM Contemporary lens, designed specifically for APS-C DSLRs, is the successor to the 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 II DC OS HSM, which was launched in 2011. The smaller and lighter lens (15.2 ounces and 2.8×3.4 inches versus 17.3 ounces and 3×3.5 inches) now macro capabilities with a minimum focusing distance of 15.4 inches and a maximum magnification ratio of 1:3, as opposed to the lens’ earlier minimum focusing distance of 17.7 inches and max magnification ratio of 1:3.8. Its minimum working distance is 14.7 inches, which makes the lens suitable for close-up shooting with natural light, keeping shadows of the camera and lens out of the image.


The 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 Macro has also been updated to incorporate Special Low Dispersion (SLD) glass elements that have a high refractive index and can correct chromatic aberration at the telephoto-end. Moreover, aspherical lens elements, including double-sided aspherical lenses, will ensure a compact size and excellent correction of distortion.


The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line. A staple focal length, the new Sigma 50mm F1.4 Art is a pro level performer for full-frame DSLRs great for many different types of photography including portraits, landscapes, studio work and still-life. It has been updated to include SLD glass and optimized for rich peripheral brightness with improved large aperture performance by positioning wide elements into the front groups. Other updates include an optimized autofocus algorithm for smoother focusing and a floating focusing system to reduce lens movement while focusing. Under the Global Vision line, it features a new matte finish, improved AF on/off switch and guarantees every lens is tested with Sigma’s proprietary modulation transfer function (MTF) “A1” measuring system before being shipped. Now with 13 elements in 8 groups compared to the previous 8 elements in 6 groups, it also has improved close focusing at 15.7 inches and a maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6


Both lenses incorporate Sigma’s Hyper Sonic Motor (HSM) system to produce quiet, high-speed auto focus. In addition, they include Super Multi-Layer Coating to reduce flare and ghosting, and to ensure high-quality images throughout the entire zoom range. The 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM and 50mm F1.4 DG HSM lenses are also compatible with Sigma’s USB dock and the company’s Mount Conversion Service.


Other recently announced lenses and accessories such as the 24-105mm F4 DG OS HSM, 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM | ART and USB Dock will be on display at Sigma’s CES booth. Visit Sigma at CES 2014 at booth 10431in Central Hall at the Las Vegas Convention Center from Jan. 7 to 10.


cr


Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 06, 2014, 06:14:26 PM

It's as big as the Canon 24-70 F/4L IS. 

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 06, 2014, 06:23:16 PM
I'm so seriously excited about this!! If it matches the 35 A, I will buy it ASAP. Anyone want to buy a Zeiss f2?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Buschtrommel on January 06, 2014, 06:28:51 PM
ok, lets wait and see how good it really is. I bought the 1,4 35mm Sigma and this is really good. But at Sigma I have always little doubts about the quality. So I wait and see - if it is very good (better than the excisting canon) perhaps I buy it (and sell my 35m Sigma - its a little bit to wide for me).
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Artifex on January 06, 2014, 06:31:17 PM
I'm so seriously excited about this!! If it matches the 35 A, I will buy it ASAP. Anyone want to buy a Zeiss f2?

Would you have asked yesterday, I would have said yes, but now… meh…  ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 06, 2014, 06:38:23 PM

It's as big as the Canon 24-70 F/4L IS.

maybe it performs really well, might be time to quickly dump off my canon 50 1.4 I'm thinking before it's too late! better get it up on ebay tonight! maybe this one won't have the AF that breaks if you glance it for more than half a second
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 06, 2014, 06:39:22 PM


No way it stacks up to the Otus, but it should comfortably beat the current 50L if the Sigma 35 Art is any indicator.  Canon will be furious as they clearly have a 50 F/(fast: 1.4 to 2) IS lens on the way.  Until that comes out, Sigma will gobble up the 'sort-of-premium 50mm' sales between the 50L and the Canon 50/1.4.

I'd imagine $899 to start (people have been screaming for a better all-around 50 prime option in this forum for ages and will 100% likely pay that kind of money), but it will come down into the $699-ish range once Canon answers with their new 50 IS.

I love Sigma pushing the debate in Canon's bread and butter sales areas -- 35 prime, 24-105, the APS-C F/1.8 zoom, and now this.  This is only good for us as consumers.

Personally, I'll wait until Canon answers later this year and compare the two.  My hypothesis is that the Canon will be slightly less sharp (based on the 35 Art vs. the Canon 35 F/2 IS) and possibly a half stop slower, but will it be much smaller and lighter, and that's of value to me.

Canon could also be brave for a change and weather-seal the new 50 (despite not being an L) and try to win the business over Sigma with quality/robustness angle.  But I doubt it.

- A

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Andy_Hodapp on January 06, 2014, 06:50:53 PM
I'm so seriously excited about this!! If it matches the 35 A, I will buy it ASAP. Anyone want to buy a Zeiss f2?

I'll trade your Zeiss for a 50mm 1.8 and friendship for life  :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Lichtgestalt on January 06, 2014, 07:00:42 PM
at least better then canons boring P&S anouncements.....  ::)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: sagittariansrock on January 06, 2014, 07:25:53 PM
Good that Sigma has made this kind of reputation for themselves that everyone is already so enthusiastic! Hopefully this will live up to the expectations. Based on their announcement, it does indeed feel Sigma is targeting the big boys rather than the Ca/Nikon 50 1.4s.
Really looking forward to more information soon!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Dylan777 on January 06, 2014, 07:35:44 PM
"The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line"

Will this out performs my f1.2 L  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: monkeyhand on January 06, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
Canon must have already known about this which explains why I got the Canon 1.4 for $279 a few weeks back.  Oh well, I figure the resell value will still be ok with Canon fanboys until the 50 IS version drops from $800 to $350 after its out for a year.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: 9VIII on January 06, 2014, 07:50:32 PM
"The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line"

Will this out performs my f1.2 L  ::) ::) ::)

At the same aperture I'm betting it will. Your f1.2 is still safe if you're just after Bokeh though.

I recently acquired the 18-35f1.8, so whether or not I get the 50mm will depend on exactly how spectacular it is. If it's good enough you'll have to wait for a big MP Canon body to fully take advantage of it.
Which also means that for the time being it could make a fantastic 80mm f2 equivalent on crop sensors.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: dash2k8 on January 06, 2014, 08:01:06 PM
Good for us consumers that Sigma is pushing advancement and making Canon take notice. I think it says something that a Sigma announcement of a lens that already exists is generating enthusiasm. I didn't see that kind of excitement about updated versions of Canon's older lenses. This 50mm is definitely on my to-buy list. Now I just have to knock off a convenience store during lunch break.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: CarlMillerPhoto on January 06, 2014, 08:05:18 PM
Booyah Yahoo Yippee Hooray Awesome FINALLY ABOUT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God I've wanted a sharp wide-open, auto-focusing 50mm 1.4 that isn't over $1k for sooo long.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: slclick on January 06, 2014, 08:06:13 PM
Yes! Love my 2 ART lenses, now they just need to make that UWA zoom
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 06, 2014, 08:07:25 PM
"The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line"

Will this out performs my f1.2 L  ::) ::) ::)

For sharpness?  Hell, the current 50 F/1.4 is sharper after F/2 or so.   Set a higher bar, will ya?  :P 

Again, for sharpness, I think the new 50 from Sigma will dust the 50 1.2L based on the performance of the Sigma 35mm Art:

Consider Roger's take, which is a clear read:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order)
(Besides his nice article, note: "This lens kicks butt, takes names, and basically posterizes the manufacturers who make the cameras this lens will fit on.")

Then consider PhotoZone's take on both 35s and the 50 1.2L (poor away from center), which is attached.  Those are stellar F/1.4 and F/2 numbers away from center for the Sigma, by the way -- large aperture glass almost never shows such a good performance.

So I expect for sharpness the new Sigma to really take it to the 50 F/1.2L, but as everyone on this forum will say, there's more to it than that -- bokeh, distortion, chromatic effects, focus speed/accuracy/consistency, etc. may say that the Sigma is lacking in some department.  We'll see.

Hell, off the cuff, size may be a tipping point for some -- this lens had better cut diamonds it's so sharp if it's going to take up 3-4x the volume in my bag as my trusty old Canon 50/1.4, and I don't expect the new Canon 50 F/?.? IS to be much bigger than its physical 'twin', the 35mm f/2 IS.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: fox40phil on January 06, 2014, 08:10:44 PM
Really nice...!! If the quality is mutch better then the old 50 1.4.. I'll change it!

But... why Sigma hasn't weather sealed lenses?!  :-X  :-\
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Dylan777 on January 06, 2014, 08:28:23 PM
"The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line"

Will this out performs my f1.2 L  ::) ::) ::)

For sharpness?  Hell, the current 50 F/1.4 is sharper after F/2 or so.   Set a higher bar, will ya?  :P 

Again, for sharpness, I think the new 50 from Sigma will dust the 50 1.2L based on the performance of the Sigma 35mm Art:

Consider Roger's take, which is a clear read:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order)
(Besides his nice article, note: "This lens kicks butt, takes names, and basically posterizes the manufacturers who make the cameras this lens will fit on.")

Then consider PhotoZone's take on both 35s and the 50 1.2L (poor away from center), which is attached.  Those are stellar F/1.4 and F/2 numbers away from center for the Sigma, by the way -- large aperture glass almost never shows such a good performance.

So I expect for sharpness the new Sigma to really take it to the 50 F/1.2L, but as everyone on this forum will say, there's more to it than that -- bokeh, distortion, chromatic effects, focus speed/accuracy/consistency, etc. may say that the Sigma is lacking in some department.  We'll see.

Hell, off the cuff, size may be a tipping point for some -- this lens had better cut diamonds it's so sharp if it's going to take up 3-4x the volume in my bag as my trusty old Canon 50/1.4, and I don't expect the new Canon 50 F/?.? IS to be much bigger than its physical 'twin', the 35mm f/2 IS.

- A

I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

There is no fun buying f1.4 prime, but can't get good results at near f1.4.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: EverydayGetaway on January 06, 2014, 08:38:29 PM
Personally, I'll wait until Canon answers later this year and compare the two.  My hypothesis is that the Canon will be slightly less sharp (based on the 35 Art vs. the Canon 35 F/2 IS) and possibly a half stop slower, but will it be much smaller and lighter, and that's of value to me.

This.  The massive size of the current Sigma 50mm is the only reason I didn't buy one.  My tiny little Yashica ML 50/1.4 gives me 80% of the IQ for a fourth the cost and it takes 52mm filters :cool:  I'm also hoping Samyang will bring us the 50mm 1.2 that they said was on their roadmap, and I hope it's not massive, but it probably will be.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 06, 2014, 08:38:41 PM

I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

There is no fun buying f1.4 prime, but can't get good results at near f1.4.

Sure.  Lab data isn't a perfect tool.  And certainly the current 50 F/1.2L is great for portraiture as the center sharpness (and, of course, that color and bokeh) is terrific.

But I use wider apertures less for portraiture and more for low-light handheld use where I'm capturing a scene and not necessarily a subject.  So IS and corner sharpness is more important for me than how the center might pop. 

So it's entirely possible that Sigma's new 50 might be sharper than everything, but you may still prefer the 50 F/1.2L and I'll keep waiting for that non-L 50mm IS refresh that we all know is coming.

But more options means more competitive pricing and more photographers finding the tool they need.  I'll take it.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 06, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
Canon will be furious as they clearly have a 50 F/(fast: 1.4 to 2) IS lens on the way.  Until that comes out, Sigma will gobble up the 'sort-of-premium 50mm' sales between the 50L and the Canon 50/1.4.

Canon won't be furious because Canon is a corporation.  Another corporation's new lens is not something they need to "answer".   It's just business.  They'll make a new 50mm that meets their own design and business criteria, as well as their own timeline for product development.  It will be competitive in its own way, and each will find buyers.  Whatever it is, I do hope they offer an improved 50mm.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: skybraun on January 06, 2014, 08:46:44 PM
I literally just bought a Sigma 85mm 1.4 and a Canon 50mm 1.4. I really wish I had waited now because the AF will most likely be improved on this redesign. Wouldn't you guys think?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 06, 2014, 08:47:59 PM
I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

The 50L sure does draw nice.  One good thing about this new Sigma is that it is about 4 ounces lighter than the 50L.  If it draws as nicely and autofocuses well, it may be a good substitute for the 50L and the 50/1.4 USM.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 06, 2014, 08:56:31 PM
Canon will be furious as they clearly have a 50 F/(fast: 1.4 to 2) IS lens on the way.  Until that comes out, Sigma will gobble up the 'sort-of-premium 50mm' sales between the 50L and the Canon 50/1.4.

Canon won't be furious because Canon is a corporation.  Another corporation's new lens is not something they need to "answer".   It's just business.  They'll make a new 50mm that meets their own design and business criteria, as well as their own timeline for product development.  It will be competitive in its own way, and each will find buyers.  Whatever it is, I do hope they offer an improved 50mm.

Don't mistake me -- these aren't high school rivals acting petulantly.  This is about profit.

The Canon corporation won't be furious, but the Canon lens marketing guys just saw either their future margins or their future unit share take a hit with this announcement.

Consider:  There's a huge price-offering gap in their portfolio between the $350 50 F/1.4 and the $1,500+ 50 F/1.2L, and Sigma swooped into that space before Canon could.  In other lengths with these IS refreshes, Canon entered with a high price and scooped up some cash from early adopters before dropping the price to market value.  I don't know if they can do that now with this Sigma now in play, which based on the 35mm Art offering, is an L quality lens (at least from a sharpness perspective) at a mid-level price. 

Canon may be forced to come in at, say $599 with their non-L IS refresh instead of making money from brand-loyal guys waiting for a better 50 prime.

And I would not complain about that.   :)

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Canon 14-24 on January 06, 2014, 09:50:36 PM
Where's the Canon dslr/lens announcements? So much for for Canon having 2014 as their "year of the lenses". Other brands already getting a jump start on this. I guess another year with just point and shoot and video (exception standard new rebel and kit len versions) announcements.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 06, 2014, 10:05:20 PM
Consider Roger's take, which is a clear read:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order)
(Besides his nice article, note: "This lens kicks butt, takes names, and basically posterizes the manufacturers who make the cameras this lens will fit on.")
Those test charts and Roger's comments make the lens look like an absolute marvel, but then I read the comments below Roger's article and the number of people reporting autofocus problems gives me pause.  When they talk about their "hit rate" with the autofocus, it diminishes the appeal (for me) of the utrasharp 35mm Sigma.  That said, I haven't tried it myself.

The Canon corporation won't be furious, but the Canon lens marketing guys just saw either their future margins or their future unit share take a hit with this announcement.

Consider:  There's a huge price-offering gap in their portfolio between the $350 50 F/1.4 and the $1,500+ 50 F/1.2L, and Sigma swooped into that space before Canon could.  In other lengths with these IS refreshes, Canon entered with a high price and scooped up some cash from early adopters before dropping the price to market value.  I don't know if they can do that now with this Sigma now in play, which based on the 35mm Art offering, is an L quality lens (at least from a sharpness perspective) at a mid-level price. 

Canon may be forced to come in at, say $599 with their non-L IS refresh instead of making money from brand-loyal guys waiting for a better 50 prime.

I don't know anything about marketing, but I suspect they look at their business as a whole.  I don't think they worry about one lens in one year, but rather how their entire portfolio of lenses is doing.   I don't think Canon is "forced" with regard to pricing by virtue of one competitor making one lens, even a very good lens.  There are too many other factors at play.  They may prioritize design and production for 5 or 10 other lenses that have a higher priority and have a greater impact on profits.   They may leave their updated 50mm for another year.  And their updated 50mm, whenever it comes, may have more to do with other factors than what Sigma is doing.  Nikon didn't "answer" Canon's 35L for something like 15 years.  It's not that it didn't matter, but that they had other priorities during that time.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 06, 2014, 10:09:38 PM
Where's the Canon dslr/lens announcements? So much for for Canon having 2014 as their "year of the lenses". Other brands already getting a jump start on this. I guess another year with just point and shoot and video (exception standard new rebel and kit len versions) announcements.

It's January 6th and you've already given up on dslr/lens announcements for the entire year?  Companies announce at different times.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: pdirestajr on January 06, 2014, 10:21:08 PM

Those test charts and Roger's comments make the lens look like an absolute marvel, but then I read the comments below Roger's article and the number of people reporting autofocus problems gives me pause.  When they talk about their "hit rate" with the autofocus, it diminishes the appeal (for me) of the utrasharp 35mm Sigma.  That said, I haven't tried it myself.


But how many of those focus "issues" are people testing their lens photographing their moving cat in candle light wide open at the minimum focus distance?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Hjalmarg1 on January 06, 2014, 11:03:04 PM
Assuming the fabrication and image quality is at the same level as the 35mm Art, it should be very good.  Compared to what else is on offer, it simply should be better option than the current Canon's 50mm AF choices of:

•The slow/noisy 50/1.8
•The non-ring USM in the 50 F/1.4 that often hunts
•The diva of the 50 F/1.2L that needs AFMA tuning

I used and sold the f1.8 and f1.4 Canon versions, current Sigma 50mm f1.4 (not good AF) and currently have the 50 F/1.2L. This Sigma might address many of the problems we've had with Canon. If so, I will buy one ASAP.
Anyone interested in this 50mm f1.2L lens?

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: preppyak on January 06, 2014, 11:16:59 PM
It's January 6th and you've already given up on dslr/lens announcements for the entire year?  Companies announce at different times.
Besides, CES is a consumer show, not a pro show. Notice that Sigma didn't wait til CES to announce the 18-35 and Tamron didnt wait for it to announce the 150-600. Sigma is instead announcing a fairly standard 50mm lens, and a superzoom that is probably <$500.

Canons lens announcements were largely for pro/L lens updates. Those will come outside of the standard shows
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: extremeinstability on January 06, 2014, 11:20:48 PM
Yay for this part, given all the 50s suck at it except an expensive Nikon. 

• Excellent correction of sagittal coma flare

It is ideal for a wide aperture standard lens to have a high rendering performance from open aperture throughout the entire image. For instance, the molded glass aspherical lens elements provide excellent correction to sagittal coma flare. It is perfect for astronomical photography and shooting of illumination because of the reduced blur on the point light sources near the edge of the image. It also creates an attractive bokeh in portraits and indoor shooting.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: PhotoCat on January 06, 2014, 11:30:26 PM
Booyah Yahoo Yippee Hooray Awesome FINALLY ABOUT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God I've wanted a sharp wide-open, auto-focusing 50mm 1.4 that isn't over $1k for sooo long.

My copy of the Canon 50 1.4 is sharp in the centre wide-open and I used to believe it wasn't based on many reviews on the web. I went thought 3-4 copies b4 I found a sharp one with my 5d2! I think 50/1.4's bad reputation is mostly focusing related. One can easily test its real optical sharpness under live-view with manual focusing.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: brad-man on January 06, 2014, 11:33:04 PM
Awesome announcement. I'm going to be very tempted by this 50. But since I already have the 35, I'll wait to see how good the new Canon will be. I'd like to have a couple of high quality primes that aren't so big and heavy. What I really need is a proper 85 and a 135 with IS. They can be big and heavy.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: DJL329 on January 07, 2014, 12:11:14 AM
"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god!"

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6m120oPPb1ru1wbho1_500.gif)

I have the EF 50mm f/1.4 and had to have the focusing fixed once, so I'm really hoping this is a good lens.  If nothing else, I hope it forces Canon to release a new 50mm f/1.4, instead of only a 50mm f/1.8 IS, as some of the recent rumors may have implied.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Nishi Drew on January 07, 2014, 12:20:58 AM
Well timed! There's the crazy Otus 55mm and then the Nikkor 58mm, both ridiculously priced lenses and I consider the 50L ridiculous as well. Still, can't tell how much Sigma is asking for this lens, and how much better it becomes over it's previous 50. But surely it will not be much more, 50mm lenses are supposed to be the easiest and cheapest of lenses to manufacture! How it appears to be so difficult to make a decently sharp, relatively CA free 50 with good bokeh.... oh, I guess that is asking too much looking back at those expensive 50s... so, will Sigma deliver instead?

I'm more interested in the other potential lenses, such as a fast 24mm, but it's good for Sigma to return to classic areas and getting the basic and popular lenses out as well
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 07, 2014, 12:25:53 AM

It's as big as the Canon 24-70 F/4L IS.

That is a sign that it has good image quality. Sigma has been making pretty much every lens dream I had come true. If this, a 135mm f/1.8 OS, a 70-200mm f/2.0 OS and a 16-35mm f/2.8 OS, and 24mm 1.4 ii are released then I will run out of dreams. I was just looking to mount a 58 mm 1.4 Nikon to my  5D3 and use manual focus. But now I may not need to.

I want this lens now.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: sagittariansrock on January 07, 2014, 12:36:15 AM
I use that ancient Canon 50 F/1.4 and fight through its 'hunty' focusing because it delivers sharper images than the 50 F/1.2L (as I rarely shoot wider than F/1.8 ).  From F/2.8 to F/4, it's a super sharp lens, but it has a boatload of limitations.  This Sigma might address a host of them.

I wish this was smaller though. The size of the 35 1.4 is what has kept me from buying it. I want a small and inconspicuous prime. Getting a large lens merely for the f/1.4-2.8 is not worth it (STRICTLY in my case). I WILL buy a smaller Canon 50 f/1.4 if only they give it a darned ring USM!

That lens is a 2014 lens for certain.  It's called Canon's new 50mm non-L.  It will be an 'non-L IS refresh' like the 24/28/35 before it -- ring USM, internal focusing (no length change), better build quality, much sharper, and with IS.  Probably $799 to start and walk down to $599 after the first year (all of the other non-L IS refreshes showed this behavior).

It will be much smaller than Sigma's new offering (I imagine roughly as big as its 'twin', the 35mm F/2 IS), but I would wager not quite as sharp.  But keep in mind that each of the non-L refreshed were big sharpness improvements to their 1990s predecessors, but the 35 F/1.4 Art lens was even sharper than those.  I expect that trend to continue.

So I'm still waiting for that new Canon 50 to stack up against this new Sigma.  If it is only 90% as sharp but has IS and is as small as I think it will be, I'd take the Canon 10 times out of 10.

- A

Yeah, but the IS is rumored to be 1.8 or even 2. Now, will it be remarkably better than my 50 f/1.8? Dunno, the 35 f/2 IS has had me thinking for the longest time, and I might just pick it up some time, but I wish they kept the f/1.4 and just made the 50mm better- sigh!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zorfunk on January 07, 2014, 12:52:31 AM
"The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line"

Will this out performs my f1.2 L  ::) ::) ::)

Haha Dylan, yes it will, just like the 35mm 1.4L. 20k in gear doesn't make a good photographer.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: infared on January 07, 2014, 12:59:42 AM
"The lens is large and has a complex formula (13 elements in 8 groups)"...the canon 50mm f/1.2L  (has only 8 elements in 7 groups)...is not a GREAT lens...I am hoping that this new Sigma could be the best 50mm with AF for Canon on the market.  This is REALLY exciting news to FINALLY "possibly" have a great normal lens for FF.  I am keeping my fingers crossed here and hoping for the best. My Sigma 35mm Art is da bomb.  Canon has been sound asleep here for many years.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: cellomaster27 on January 07, 2014, 01:00:58 AM
I'm hoping that this sigma 50 is going to cost somewhere around 699 to be high and 550 to be low. At least for the initial pricing.  Got me thinking though... Depending on the quality of the rumored canon 50 IS lens, these may be competing for consumers wallets head on. The now previous version of the sigma 50 found it's way into my photographers bags over the years. Going to be a very interesting and I think a successful year for sigma if they keep the stunning new line of lenses coming in. Good for all of us photographers. :D
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 01:02:32 AM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 01:07:58 AM
Well timed! There's the crazy Otus 55mm and then the Nikkor 58mm, both ridiculously priced lenses and I consider the 50L ridiculous as well. Still, can't tell how much Sigma is asking for this lens, and how much better it becomes over it's previous 50. But surely it will not be much more, 50mm lenses are supposed to be the easiest and cheapest of lenses to manufacture! How it appears to be so difficult to make a decently sharp, relatively CA free 50 with good bokeh.... oh, I guess that is asking too much looking back at those expensive 50s... so, will Sigma deliver instead?

I'm more interested in the other potential lenses, such as a fast 24mm, but it's good for Sigma to return to classic areas and getting the basic and popular lenses out as well


Canon 50 F/1.8 = $125
Canon 50 F/2.5* = $299
Sigma 50 F/2.8* = $369
Canon 50 F/1.4 = $399
Sigma 50 F/1.4 = $499
[HUGE OPPORTUNITY SPACE]
Canon 50 F/1.2 = $1,619

* = Generally a macro lens but serviceable as a general AF prime

Showing non-rebate B&H prices here, but you get my drift...  I've left out the manual focus lenses because I don't shoot them, but you could imagine the Rokibowyangs and the Zeiss glass in there if you were so inclined.

And you can see why so many folks are clamoring for a better 50mm option.  Every single lens on that list has issues of one form or another that precludes it from being an 8 or 9 out of 10 at everything sort of lens.  I would argue right now that such a lens does not exist (at least not with autofocus in an EF mount).

So, enter Sigma (today) and Canon (eventually -- my money's on this year) with a 50mm prime that can outclass the field in most metrics and stay under $1,000.  Sigma's playing the Art card and admirably throwing the house at 'horsepower' metrics like speed and sharpness, and Canon (at least of late) has been building less impressive lenses on paper that are awfully well thought through (i.e. the non-L IS refreshes).

I'm curious to see who really earns mindshare and proponents in this focal length.  Will it be the all-things-considered folks or the IQ folks?  We shall see.

- A



Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 01:11:26 AM
I note that this new Sigma 50/1.4 is being introduced at $900.  Canon's current 50/1.4 (a 20-year-old design) is about $400 or less (BuyDig offered it for $279 recently).  If Canon introduces a new 50/1.4 in the same price range as this Sigma, some people will complain (in online forums) about Canon's pricing ... "They doubled the price!!!".  If Canon introduces a really good 50/1.8 with IS, some people will compare its price to that of the nifty fifty ($125) and scream.  However, a really good 50mm costs some $$$ to build.  That's why the Sigma is $900 and not $400.  That's why the Otus is $4000 and not $400.  Even the manual focus Zeiss ZE 50/1.4 is $725.

If the lens is large and has a complex formula (13 elements in 8 groups)...the canon 50mm f/1.2L  (has only 8 elements in 7 groups)...is not a GREAT lens...I am hoping that this new Sigma could be the best 50mm with AF for Canon on the market.  This is REALLY exciting news to FINALLY "possibly" have a great normal lens for FF.  I am keeping my fingers crossed here and hoping for the best. Canon has been sound asleep here for many years.

I think it's an exciting announcement too.  But I disagree about Canon sleeping.  They've been putting out new lenses steadily, just at other focal lengths; I could make a list of some really good ones.  The 50L is a wonderful lens because of the way it draws -- it's made a lot of my favorite photos.  A lot of photographers like the look.  And it's weather-sealed once you add a filter.  Canon obviously had different design priorities for the 50L than ultimate sharpness.  It does have some faults, so it doesn't please everyone.  I believe they omitted a floating rear element which is what helps make some other lenses so good.  But with that it would have cost even more.  I'm looking forward to seeing how this Sigma will compare.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on January 07, 2014, 01:20:16 AM
It all depends on the price of both the Sigma and Canon (if we ever see the Canon that is!). I got rid off my 50 1.8 a while ago and have missed having something relatively small and light to use as a walk around lens. The Sigma looks like it might be a bit on the heavy side, prob better suited to studio work than hiking and outdoor activities. For that kinda thing a 50 IS would make more sense. I really love IS, it's a life saver. I don't want to carry a tripod all day for the small possibility that i might need it for one or two low light shots in the evening. Just want a well built 50 that has reliable AF.

I can see both the Canon and Sigma being around the same price, a bit like the 35s.

Canon, the time to announce your 50 1.8 IS is now!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 01:31:13 AM
I note that this new Sigma 50/1.4 is being introduced at $900.  Canon's current 50/1.4 (a 20-year-old design) is about $400 or less (BuyDig offered it for $279 recently).  If Canon introduces a new 50/1.4 in the same price range as this Sigma, some people will complain (in online forums) about Canon's pricing ... "They doubled the price!!!".  However, a really good 50mm costs some $$$ to build.  That's why the Sigma is $900 and not $400.  That's why the Otus is $4000 and not $400.  Even the manual focus Zeiss ZE 50/1.4 is $725.

Agree.  We thought Sigma was nutty with an $899 asking price for the 35mm Art on the notion that Sigma should not warrant such a price at such a length based on prior lenses they've made.  But no one's complaining about that now, and you could argue the success of that one 35mm lens has earned them the right ask for a similar price for the new 50.

Further, you are dead on -- I see pros still using the old Canon 50 F/1.4 at weddings, concerts, etc. because the 1.2 lens isn't for them.  It's dreamy and arty, but it's not particularly sharp and I've read people having fits nailing the focus.  I've shot both, and I think the hunt-y AF of my 50 F/1.4 is slower to target but ultimately more reliably on target.

The downside?  I can't use the 50 F/1.4 with my niece and nephew because they move faster than my AF can lock on, and my hit rate is low with them.  So I save my 50 prime for portraits of adults or, more often, a walkabout lens where I take a little more time to compose, and I crack out the 24-70 (with far better AF) to capture the little ones.

Keep in mind that's just for me.  But these forums are littered with people unhappy with the lenses on the (prior) price list.  Each one is lacking something that would make it an all-around win for the shooter.

So a top-to-bottom modern 50mm lens with all things considered (and not necessarily mastered/perfected -- just competently done) would command a great price, and I'd likely be first in line to pay for it.  I think Sigma around $800-900 is just about right, but like the 35 Art, it needs to sing in reviews to earn that price.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 01:40:41 AM
It all depends on the price of both the Sigma and Canon (if we ever see the Canon that is!). I got rid off my 50 1.8 a while ago and have missed having something relatively small and light to use as a walk around lens. The Sigma looks like it might be a bit on the heavy side, prob better suited to studio work than hiking and outdoor activities. For that kinda thing a 50 IS would make more sense. I really love IS, it's a life saver. I don't want to carry a tripod all day for the small possibility that i might need it for one or two low light shots in the evening. Just want a well built 50 that has reliable AF.

I can see both the Canon and Sigma being around the same price, a bit like the 35s.

Canon, the time to announce your 50 1.8 IS is now!

The new Sigma is almost the same diam/length as the Canon 24-70 F/4L IS, which is certainly big for a 50 prime!

But the weight is less than you'd think for its size -- the new Sigma is about halfway between the Canon F/1.4 and F/1.2, and right around a pound, I think. 

Interesting!  They pulled the weight from their webpage! It was around 16 oz when I first read it today.

P.S.  OT to Zv:  I use that 24-70 F/4 for hiking myself and it's not been a bother, it's quite ideal actually (macro/wide/solid AF for wildlife/weather seal/IS for lower light), and I'm not a big guy by any means.  I put that on a BlackRapid mounted body and I'm off.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on January 07, 2014, 02:31:18 AM
It all depends on the price of both the Sigma and Canon (if we ever see the Canon that is!). I got rid off my 50 1.8 a while ago and have missed having something relatively small and light to use as a walk around lens. The Sigma looks like it might be a bit on the heavy side, prob better suited to studio work than hiking and outdoor activities. For that kinda thing a 50 IS would make more sense. I really love IS, it's a life saver. I don't want to carry a tripod all day for the small possibility that i might need it for one or two low light shots in the evening. Just want a well built 50 that has reliable AF.

I can see both the Canon and Sigma being around the same price, a bit like the 35s.

Canon, the time to announce your 50 1.8 IS is now!

The new Sigma is almost the same diam/length as the Canon 24-70 F/4L IS, which is certainly big for a 50 prime!

But the weight is less than you'd think for its size -- the new Sigma is about halfway between the Canon F/1.4 and F/1.2, and right around a pound, I think. 

Interesting!  They pulled the weight from their webpage! It was around 16 oz when I first read it today.

P.S.  OT to Zv:  I use that 24-70 F/4 for hiking myself and it's not been a bother, it's quite ideal actually (macro/wide/solid AF for wildlife/weather seal/IS for lower light), and I'm not a big guy by any means.  I put that on a BlackRapid mounted body and I'm off.

Oh! Sorry I misread somewhere and thought the Sigma was the same size as the 24-70LII, that's my fault! Yeah the 24-70 f/4L is quite manageable esp on a 6D. I've considered swapping my 24-105 for it but I like having the 105mm option.

Where is everyone getting the specs for size weight and price btw?? (Found it, duh their website. I'm on fire today!)

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on January 07, 2014, 02:54:40 AM
I made a ahem paper "replica" to get my head around the size. Seems about the same size and thickness as an average coffee mug.

Observe.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: cliffwang on January 07, 2014, 03:03:44 AM
I am very happy with my Sigma 50mm f/1.4.  However, this is very exciting to hear the new 50 f/1.4 art lens.  Good job Sigma and Tamron.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 03:28:49 AM
I sincerely hope this lens isn't anywhere near 699-899! I hoping for AT LEAST $1499. I don't want Canon 50 1.4 competitor, I want the best 50 AF lens for Canon, I want it to be close to my Zeiss wide open ( and yes a stop faster).

The thing is, even New Sigma struggles a lot with AF, and would I rather have the best mf there is (Zeiss) or would I like okay AF? I think my answer is mf, because if I miss, I know I , myself missed, not the lens. Only wish the Zeiss was 1.4...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Northstar on January 07, 2014, 03:33:28 AM
Great to hear about this new lens....the opportunity for a 50mm 1.4 canon mount that actually performs well from 1.4 to 1.8 is exciting. 

I'm hoping the AF is fast enough to allow me to shoot sports with it.   It would be nice when I'm forced to shoot at ISO 6400 on my 2.8 zoom, to instead pull out this 50 and shoot at ISO 3200 or 1600.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 03:33:57 AM
"The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line"

Will this out performs my f1.2 L  ::) ::) ::)

For sharpness?  Hell, the current 50 F/1.4 is sharper after F/2 or so.   Set a higher bar, will ya?  :P 

Again, for sharpness, I think the new 50 from Sigma will dust the 50 1.2L based on the performance of the Sigma 35mm Art:

Consider Roger's take, which is a clear read:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order)
(Besides his nice article, note: "This lens kicks butt, takes names, and basically posterizes the manufacturers who make the cameras this lens will fit on.")

Then consider PhotoZone's take on both 35s and the 50 1.2L (poor away from center), which is attached.  Those are stellar F/1.4 and F/2 numbers away from center for the Sigma, by the way -- large aperture glass almost never shows such a good performance.

So I expect for sharpness the new Sigma to really take it to the 50 F/1.2L, but as everyone on this forum will say, there's more to it than that -- bokeh, distortion, chromatic effects, focus speed/accuracy/consistency, etc. may say that the Sigma is lacking in some department.  We'll see.

Hell, off the cuff, size may be a tipping point for some -- this lens had better cut diamonds it's so sharp if it's going to take up 3-4x the volume in my bag as my trusty old Canon 50/1.4, and I don't expect the new Canon 50 F/?.? IS to be much bigger than its physical 'twin', the 35mm f/2 IS.

- A

I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

There is no fun buying f1.4 prime, but can't get good results at near f1.4.

The 50 L is a wonderful lens, and as your shot shows, it draws nice, BUT what I see is dead center comp, if you were to shoot that same shot with one of the outer most points, it would be a mess. I know because I have tried, I had to be at around 2,8 to get decent sharpness with outer points, and even then I would just prefer the 24-70 at 50mm.

Just want to say, I have owned three 50 L's and I LOVE that lens, but it simply lacks so much sharpness and IQ slightly off center it's very limiting for composition.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Eldar on January 07, 2014, 03:35:03 AM
I sincerely hope this lens isn't anywhere near 699-899! I hoping for AT LEAST $1499. I don't want Canon 50 1.4 competitor, I want the best 50 AF lens for Canon, I want it to be close to my Zeiss wide open ( and yes a stop faster).

The thing is, even New Sigma struggles a lot with AF, and would I rather have the best mf there is (Zeiss) or would I like okay AF? I think my answer is mf, because if I miss, I know I , myself missed, not the lens. Only wish the Zeiss was 1.4...
My Sigma 35 f1.4 was great for a long time, but this fall AF started to drift and at Christmas I could not use it. A run through Focal showed a 7 step AFMA change. I have not checked if the drift has continued. But nevertheless, it makes me a bit sceptical ...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 03:38:56 AM
I sincerely hope this lens isn't anywhere near 699-899! I hoping for AT LEAST $1499. I don't want Canon 50 1.4 competitor, I want the best 50 AF lens for Canon, I want it to be close to my Zeiss wide open ( and yes a stop faster).

The thing is, even New Sigma struggles a lot with AF, and would I rather have the best mf there is (Zeiss) or would I like okay AF? I think my answer is mf, because if I miss, I know I , myself missed, not the lens. Only wish the Zeiss was 1.4...
My Sigma 35 f1.4 was great for a long time, but this fall AF started to drift and at Christmas I could not use it. A run through Focal showed a 7 step AFMA change. I have not checked if the drift has continued. But nevertheless, it makes me a bit sceptical ...

Wow! Seriously? The AFMA value changed without dropping or bumping the lens hard? That's the first time I have heard, I didn't think it was even possible. But that is NOT at good thing.... Ouch, sorry to hear that... At least it made your 55 even more worth it, no?  ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: RGomezPhotos on January 07, 2014, 03:41:52 AM
I'm glad Sigma put some time and effort into the 50mm. Until recently, this focal length usually gets left out in the cold. I love my Zeiss 50mm f1.4. Still one of the better ones out there at this focal length. But I'm glad there are more quality choices in a medium price tag.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Eldar on January 07, 2014, 03:42:00 AM
I sincerely hope this lens isn't anywhere near 699-899! I hoping for AT LEAST $1499. I don't want Canon 50 1.4 competitor, I want the best 50 AF lens for Canon, I want it to be close to my Zeiss wide open ( and yes a stop faster).

The thing is, even New Sigma struggles a lot with AF, and would I rather have the best mf there is (Zeiss) or would I like okay AF? I think my answer is mf, because if I miss, I know I , myself missed, not the lens. Only wish the Zeiss was 1.4...
My Sigma 35 f1.4 was great for a long time, but this fall AF started to drift and at Christmas I could not use it. A run through Focal showed a 7 step AFMA change. I have not checked if the drift has continued. But nevertheless, it makes me a bit sceptical ...

Wow! Seriously? The AFMA value changed without dropping or bumping the lens hard? That's the first time I have heard, I didn't think it was even possible. But that is NOT at good thing.... Ouch, sorry to hear that... At least it made your 55 even more worth it, no?  ;)
He he, the AFMA problem with the Otus sits just above my nose ;) If you need a MF 1.4 lens of excellent quality, all you need is $4k  ::)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 03:50:14 AM
I sincerely hope this lens isn't anywhere near 699-899! I hoping for AT LEAST $1499. I don't want Canon 50 1.4 competitor, I want the best 50 AF lens for Canon, I want it to be close to my Zeiss wide open ( and yes a stop faster).

The thing is, even New Sigma struggles a lot with AF, and would I rather have the best mf there is (Zeiss) or would I like okay AF? I think my answer is mf, because if I miss, I know I , myself missed, not the lens. Only wish the Zeiss was 1.4...
My Sigma 35 f1.4 was great for a long time, but this fall AF started to drift and at Christmas I could not use it. A run through Focal showed a 7 step AFMA change. I have not checked if the drift has continued. But nevertheless, it makes me a bit sceptical ...

Wow! Seriously? The AFMA value changed without dropping or bumping the lens hard? That's the first time I have heard, I didn't think it was even possible. But that is NOT at good thing.... Ouch, sorry to hear that... At least it made your 55 even more worth it, no?  ;)
He he, the AFMA problem with the Otus sits just above my nose ;) If you need a MF 1.4 lens of excellent quality, all you need is $4k  ::)

Lol, yeah, I had a savings account for the Otus as soon as I heard about it a looong time ago, but they took too long and I bought the 200 instead. Maybe just maybe this Sigma will bring a great 50 for a little less than the Otus, AND if the mf is as good as the 35, I can always use it as and mf lens too.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: 9VIII on January 07, 2014, 04:13:35 AM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.

That's another big selling point for me. I love my Samyang 85f1.4, but I can't frame a shot on anything smaller than a medium size dog, which gets frustrating for someone who likes to shoot close up more than wide.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: that1guyy on January 07, 2014, 04:26:14 AM
Hopefully another quality lens by Sigma! Hope its $899 like its little brother the 35mm 1.4.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mb66energy on January 07, 2014, 04:28:07 AM
Interesting lens - which has overall a similar construction like the Zeiss OTUS - Retrofocus like basic construction, an aspheric last element and the use of 4 SLD lenses in a 50mm (Zeiss has 6 lenses of different glass types with anomalous partial dispersion).

I expect a pricing near 1000 $/EUR, a lens sharpness which is close to the OTUS and the main difference between them will be the general rendering of images.

Very interesting lens!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Northstar on January 07, 2014, 04:40:26 AM
Hopefully another quality lens by Sigma! Hope its $899 like its little brother the 35mm 1.4.

I think you're spot on...$899 and they'll sell a bunch if them if the reviews are similar to the sigma 35mm.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Tiosabas on January 07, 2014, 04:46:33 AM
Sounds good, I wasn't really expecting this one so soon. With the redesign I hope that they retain the wonderful out of focus rendering that the current Sigma 50 1.4 has because the 35 Art does not have that magic. I also hope they fix the hideous onion bokeh problem. The size is a bit of a concern though as I think alot of people like myself like their primes to be a bit more discreet for everyday/family use. As a professionals choice for a 50 I think it will be good.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: slclick on January 07, 2014, 05:42:56 AM
I own 2 new Sigma Art lenses and I can tell you except in certain Servo cases they AF as fast as most L lenses. The 24-105 is certainly as fast as the Canon and the 35 leaves nothing to be desired on my copy. No afma either. I haven't owned the zoom long enough to run Focal with it but haven't thought I need to from the few hundred shots I've used it for.

I rarely use my 50 1.4, it sits on my EOS 3 pretty much all the time.(That's my main portrait rig)

I bet this is priced in the high 600's USD and if it's anything like it's wider sibling I'll jump on it. I can see Ebay flooded with Canon 1.4's as of yesterday.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 07, 2014, 05:47:58 AM
Interesting lens, but I'm disappointed that they didn't just fix their previous 50mm.

Thing is, that lens is GREAT and is DIFFERENT. It was able to mix very high center sharpness with the creamiest bokeh. It had 3 problems: it was huge, AF was unreliable, and corners where never sharp even after stopping down. In a way, it was a sharper and much cheaper analogue of the Canon 50mm L, though obviously also a tad slower.

Fixing that lens, even only AF-wise, would have given them a real winner. Instead, it seems that the point of this lens is more like porting their 35mm A into a 50mm FL. Good for lens collectors, but I imagine many people in the field would rather take the 35mm and do some cropping. That's what I'd do, at least.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 06:08:41 AM

Good for lens collectors, but I imagine many people in the field would rather take the 35mm and do some cropping. That's what I'd do, at least.

Shoot a subject against any background with the subject being the same size with both 35 and 50 and you'll see just how different it looks. A 35 and 50 are different beasts.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Sporgon on January 07, 2014, 06:25:05 AM

Good for lens collectors, but I imagine many people in the field would rather take the 35mm and do some cropping. That's what I'd do, at least.

Shoot a subject against any background with the subject being the same size with both 35 and 50 and you'll see just how different it looks. A 35 and 50 are different beasts.

+1  ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ewg963 on January 07, 2014, 06:29:51 AM
Time will tell about the new Sigma 50 1.4 if it's as good as then I'll make my decision to purchase it. I'd love to replace my Canon 50 1.4 with something better. The jury is out until then.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Efka76 on January 07, 2014, 06:43:32 AM
Wonderful news! Let's wait for some time when tests are performed and price drops a bit :) I really expect that Sigma 50 mm 1.4 will be much better than (20 years!!!! old) Canon 50 mm 1.4. I am really disappointed regarding Canon's approach to lenses. Canon's new lenses are superb quality (e.g. 24-70), however, their price tag is too high for average customers. From another side, Sigma & Tamron is able to manufacture and offer to customers PRO line lenses, which are really affordable.

I am really surprised that Canon was sleeping for 20 years and has not updated its 50 mm 1.4. Despite the fact tah Sigma's equivalent is 2x expensive I will sell my Canon 50 mm 1.4 and will by Sigma. Canon is starting to loose quite significant market to Sigma and Tamron. Canon users are not Apple users, they think! Accordingly, I would expect that many people will by Sigma 50 1.4, which is based on new technology, excells Canon, quality is Similar to Zeiss (I really expect that :D ) but price is affordable.

Canon should be ashamed to offer (in the future) non-L 50 mm 1.8 IS....
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: infared on January 07, 2014, 07:57:38 AM
I note that this new Sigma 50/1.4 is being introduced at $900.  Canon's current 50/1.4 (a 20-year-old design) is about $400 or less (BuyDig offered it for $279 recently).  If Canon introduces a new 50/1.4 in the same price range as this Sigma, some people will complain (in online forums) about Canon's pricing ... "They doubled the price!!!".  If Canon introduces a really good 50/1.8 with IS, some people will compare its price to that of the nifty fifty ($125) and scream.  However, a really good 50mm costs some $$$ to build.  That's why the Sigma is $900 and not $400.  That's why the Otus is $4000 and not $400.  Even the manual focus Zeiss ZE 50/1.4 is $725.

If the lens is large and has a complex formula (13 elements in 8 groups)...the canon 50mm f/1.2L  (has only 8 elements in 7 groups)...is not a GREAT lens...I am hoping that this new Sigma could be the best 50mm with AF for Canon on the market.  This is REALLY exciting news to FINALLY "possibly" have a great normal lens for FF.  I am keeping my fingers crossed here and hoping for the best. Canon has been sound asleep here for many years.

I think it's an exciting announcement too.  But I disagree about Canon sleeping.  They've been putting out new lenses steadily, just at other focal lengths; I could make a list of some really good ones.  The 50L is a wonderful lens because of the way it draws -- it's made a lot of my favorite photos.  A lot of photographers like the look.  And it's weather-sealed once you add a filter.  Canon obviously had different design priorities for the 50L than ultimate sharpness.  It does have some faults, so it doesn't please everyone.  I believe they omitted a floating rear element which is what helps make some other lenses so good.  But with that it would have cost even more.  I'm looking forward to seeing how this Sigma will compare.

When I said Canon has been sleeping "here"...I was referring to 50mm focal length.  This is the NORMAL focal length for FF and the Canon offerings have been in my mind disrespectful of photography.  I think Canon should be offering something solid, reliable and competent in this BASIC staple. The do not, as far as I am concerned. I bought the old Sigma 50mm f/1.4 (not without its own problems...but apparently I bought a good copy), because the canon offerings were so anemic...and the price on the L lens for what it offers is embarrassing. Also, if they ever do come to bat on this situation, (a 50mm f/2.0 IS is NOT addressing this BASIC issue) you can bet the pricing will suck the air out of the room.  Whatever is going on over at Sigma Corp. I for one hope that they keep sending lots of it our way. Hope this new Sigma busts the 50mm situation wide open.  We will see. (fingers crossed).
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 07, 2014, 09:49:09 AM

Good for lens collectors, but I imagine many people in the field would rather take the 35mm and do some cropping. That's what I'd do, at least.

Shoot a subject against any background with the subject being the same size with both 35 and 50 and you'll see just how different it looks. A 35 and 50 are different beasts.

I'm not saying that a 35mm replaces EVERY 50mm. I'm saying that, for me at least, it replaces a 50mm with the same characteristics and optical signature. I'd rather invest the money in something that really lets me do something different or at least in a different way.

Always in my opinion, of course, 50mm is a useless FL unless the lens you're using is really special (and I found a little gem in the CV Nokton 58mm). It's usually too long for a walkaround and too short for portraits. I'd rather have with me a 35mm and a 85mm instead of a 35mm and a 50mm - again, especially if both lenses have similar characteristics.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Slyham on January 07, 2014, 10:54:17 AM
I know this thread has been exclusively about the 50mm, but I had a question about the 18-200. Why in the world do third party manufacturers go to 6.3 on the long end? Not being able to AF after 5.6 seems like a deal killer for anyone in the target market. What am I missing?  :o
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 07, 2014, 10:57:26 AM
I know this thread has been exclusively about the 50mm, but I had a question about the 18-200. Why in the world do third party manufacturers go to 6.3 on the long end? Not being able to AF after 5.6 seems like a deal killer for anyone in the target market. What am I missing?  :o

That the lens tricks the camera and presents itself as a f/5.6 :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: hgraf on January 07, 2014, 10:58:05 AM
As for the 18-200, I am excited about the possible performance of this lens, but I'm REALLY disappointed with yet another superzoom starting at 18mm. Why can't they start it at 15mm? Would be SO much more useful for travel IMHO. Even 17 would be better then bloody 18mm.

Would love to travel with ONE lens, but still can't.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 07, 2014, 10:59:14 AM
I know this thread has been exclusively about the 50mm, but I had a question about the 18-200. Why in the world do third party manufacturers go to 6.3 on the long end? Not being able to AF after 5.6 seems like a deal killer for anyone in the target market. What am I missing?  :o

Making the long end f/6.3 reduces the production cost for the lens.  As an extreme example, consider Tamron's 150-600mm: 600mm f/5.6 would need a 107mm front element, whereas 600mm f/6.3 neds a 95mm front element.

No worries about AF - the lens 'lies' to the camera body, telling it the aperture is f/5.6 even when it's f/6.3, so AF still works.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: hgraf on January 07, 2014, 11:00:10 AM
I know this thread has been exclusively about the 50mm, but I had a question about the 18-200. Why in the world do third party manufacturers go to 6.3 on the long end? Not being able to AF after 5.6 seems like a deal killer for anyone in the target market. What am I missing?  :o

There are many third party zooms that go beyond 5.6, and they focus fine. Why? They lie to the camera and say they are at 5.6 for focusing even though they aren't.

I do wonder if the zooms that SAY they only go down to 5.6 actually don't also go a little further and lie to the camera. I've always had that suspicion of one of my lenses. It just seems a little dark fully zoomed then 5.6 should be to my eyes. Maybe I'm wrong.

TTYL
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Slyham on January 07, 2014, 11:10:09 AM
Thanks neuro and hgraf. Does AF suffer because the AF point is expecting 5.6 but getting 6.3?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 11:16:15 AM
Canon should be ashamed to offer (in the future) non-L 50 mm 1.8 IS....

Respectfully disagree.  Each of the non-L IS refresh lenses are terrific.

I think it will be a battle of IS + small design (Canon) vs. speed + larger design.  I'm guessing both will have excellent IQ.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: YuengLinger on January 07, 2014, 11:17:40 AM
"I see pros still using the old Canon 50 F/1.4 at weddings, concerts, etc. because the 1.2 lens isn't for them."

+1  So do I, as I've been lucky enough to assist a $10k wedding photographer, and she uses the 50mm 1.4 often for posed environmental shots of bride, groom, and other key participants individually. 

My only personal gripe with my copy is just too soft below 1.8; however, I find its AF quick, almost equal to my 24-105mm in lower light.


"The thing is, even New Sigma struggles a lot with AF..."

-1!  Don't know if this statement is based on personal experience or web echoes, but my Sigma 35mm 1.4 is another great AF performer, center spot or outer, indoors or out.  I usually use it from two feet to twelve feet away from subject, people walking quickly towards me or past me, no problem nailing AF on the eyes or face.  I have several of Canon's best AF lenses to compare to, and see no problem at all with this Sigma.

I had what was likely a good copy of the Canon ef 35mm 1.4L, but it was too soft wide open and had too much purple fringing, noticeable even at 5.6 in a few shots.  Why do I say good copy?  Because I sent it to CPS and they sent it back saying it was "well with in specifications."  (I have sent lenses to them with complaints, e.g. a kit 24-105mm having strange contrast issues and dodgy IS, and had the lenses serviced and returned wonderfully improved.  So I did TRY to give my ef 35mm 1.4 a fair chance.)  To be fair to the Canon, for the occasional landscape shot (on a tripod), it was astoundingly sharp for middle and far distance.  Incredible even.

I love sample images I see online from the Canon ef 50mm 1.2L, and I've gone out for location portraits with a local photography professor who uses practically nothing else and gets consistently great shots, but the pro I mentioned above, and some thoughtful reviews online convinced me to save my money on this one, putting it instead towards my favorite portrait lens, the ef 85mm 1.2L.

Cheers to Sigma for cranking up the competition!  If I ever have to replace my ef 50mm 1.4, I hope the Sigma reviews well!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 07, 2014, 11:27:53 AM
I do wonder if the zooms that SAY they only go down to 5.6 actually don't also go a little further and lie to the camera. I've always had that suspicion of one of my lenses. It just seems a little dark fully zoomed then 5.6 should be to my eyes. Maybe I'm wrong.

You're not wrong, for two reasons. 

The first is rounding - if you look at the patents, the 70-300L is f/5.85 at the long end, for example.  That's not just true for variable aperture zooms, either - for example, the 24-70/2.8L II is really f/2.91, and the 200-400/4 + 1.4x is actually f/4.12 without the TC and f/5.77 with the TC.  Different "f/5.6" lenses have different real apertures.

The second is that the f/number is calculated, not measured (and the real f/number differs from the canonical stop increments because the lens' focal length isn't quite as long as stated, or the iris diaphragm diameter isn't quite as big, or more likely both).  But it's still a calculated number, stated in f-stops.  If you actually measure the light transmission, that's T-stops, and you always find that some light is lost (mostly due to internal reflection of light - antireflective coatings aren't perfect, so more elements usually means a lower T-stop).  For example, the 24-70/2.8L II and 16-35/2.8L II are both f/2.8 lenses, but the 24-70 has a T-stop of 3.0 (meaning 0.2-stops are lost), while the 16-35 has a T-stop of 3.3, so at 24mm f/2.8 it's 1/3-stop darker than the 24-70 at f/2.8.  If you're shooting in an autoexposure mode, the camera will compensate if the difference is big enough.

Thanks neuro and hgraf. Does AF suffer because the AF point is expecting 5.6 but getting 6.3?

Theoretically, the accuracy would be slightly less.  Practically, it probably makes no difference (or at least, any difference is insignificant compared to the AF issues that result from the 3rd party lens makers needing to reverse-engineer the AF protocols).
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 11:30:02 AM
I made a ahem paper "replica" to get my head around the size. Seems about the same size and thickness as an average coffee mug.

Observe.

Without comparing like for like, that is a big lens. In that sense I think I prefer my current Sigma 1.4, just for its size (and it is also not a very small lens)...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 11:35:21 AM
I made a ahem paper "replica" to get my head around the size. Seems about the same size and thickness as an average coffee mug.

Observe.

Without comparing like for like, that is a big lens. In that sense I think I prefer my current Sigma 1.4, just for its size (and it is also not a very small lens)...

The coffee mug cracks me up - nice work. 

I checked the listed specs and compared them to TDP's database.  The new Sigma lens is as big as the recent Canon 24-70 F/4L IS (fully closed / widest FL).  The hood will undoubtedly be bigger for the Sigma, as the small petal hood of the Canon zoom is made for the 24mm FL, I believe.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 11:41:46 AM

Good for lens collectors, but I imagine many people in the field would rather take the 35mm and do some cropping. That's what I'd do, at least.

Shoot a subject against any background with the subject being the same size with both 35 and 50 and you'll see just how different it looks. A 35 and 50 are different beasts.

I'm not saying that a 35mm replaces EVERY 50mm. I'm saying that, for me at least, it replaces a 50mm with the same characteristics and optical signature. I'd rather invest the money in something that really lets me do something different or at least in a different way.

Always in my opinion, of course, 50mm is a useless FL unless the lens you're using is really special (and I found a little gem in the CV Nokton 58mm). It's usually too long for a walkaround and too short for portraits. I'd rather have with me a 35mm and a 85mm instead of a 35mm and a 50mm - again, especially if both lenses have similar characteristics.

This time of year (when it's generally dark and glum) I find I carry both the 35 and the 50 a lot of the time. These focal lengths really are very different and have their specific uses although they can both perform as a general purpose lens depending on ones preference. Aside from the angle of view, the perspective is much more important. It took me a while to understand the 35, but in certain situations it offers me the ability to create pictures with more 'drama' to them.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jhanken on January 07, 2014, 11:42:16 AM
I have the 35mm Art and the previous 50mm Sigmas, both of which I love. This is a killer development, but I love my current 50mm and probably won't be tempted to trade up.  The lens I am really waiting for is the 85mm Art, now THAT lens I will scoop up in a second to replace the Canon 85mm 1.8.  The Canon is a fine lens, but that half a stop make a difference in low light.

Keep 'em coming, Sigma! This is great for us gear heads.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 11:44:26 AM
When I said Canon has been sleeping "here"...I was referring to 50mm focal length.  This is the NORMAL focal length for FF and the Canon offerings have been in my mind disrespectful of photography.  I think Canon should be offering something solid, reliable and competent in this BASIC staple. The do not, as far as I am concerned. I bought the old Sigma 50mm f/1.4 (not without its own problems...but apparently I bought a good copy), because the canon offerings were so anemic...and the price on the L lens for what it offers is embarrassing. Also, if they ever do come to bat on this situation, (a 50mm f/2.0 IS is NOT addressing this BASIC issue) you can bet the pricing will suck the air out of the room.  Whatever is going on over at Sigma Corp. I for one hope that they keep sending lots of it our way. Hope this new Sigma busts the 50mm situation wide open.  We will see. (fingers crossed).

Canon offers five flavors of standard lens (40/2.8, 50/2.5, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/1.2).  Four of them are very affordable.  I would not call that "disrespectful of photography".  Each of them offers some advantages, and each has found many buyers, and each has made many fine photos.  Your old Sigma 50/1.4 is about $500 or about 25% more than Canon's 50/1.4, so it should be better at least in some way.  Now Sigma offers a $900 version of a 50mm, which is much less affordable than four of Canon's offerings.  And it's not weather-sealed.  Should Canon have offered a $900 large-sized non-weather-sealed 50mm lens?  That would be nice, but can you really blame Canon for not filling every possible price niche.  And I disagree about a 50mm f/2 IS.  That would be a "basic staple".  A 50/2 has been a basic staple in the photography world for generations.  Adding IS would make it even more attractive, especially for video.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: AcutancePhotography on January 07, 2014, 11:53:37 AM
I'd rather have with me a 35mm and a 85mm instead of a 35mm and a 50mm - again, especially if both lenses have similar characteristics.

That was my thought process when I started rebuilding my lens kit.  I am usually of the mindset of either 35 or 50 but not both.   But with this new Sigma 35mm A lens, it is tempting to add a 50 to stick between my 35 and 85.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 11:55:13 AM
When I said Canon has been sleeping "here"...I was referring to 50mm focal length.  This is the NORMAL focal length for FF and the Canon offerings have been in my mind disrespectful of photography.  I think Canon should be offering something solid, reliable and competent in this BASIC staple. The do not, as far as I am concerned. I bought the old Sigma 50mm f/1.4 (not without its own problems...but apparently I bought a good copy), because the canon offerings were so anemic...and the price on the L lens for what it offers is embarrassing. Also, if they ever do come to bat on this situation, (a 50mm f/2.0 IS is NOT addressing this BASIC issue) you can bet the pricing will suck the air out of the room.  Whatever is going on over at Sigma Corp. I for one hope that they keep sending lots of it our way. Hope this new Sigma busts the 50mm situation wide open.  We will see. (fingers crossed).


Canon offers five flavors of standard lens (40/2.8, 50/2.5, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/1.2).  Four of them are very affordable.  I would not call that "disrespectful of photography".  Each of them offers some advantages, and each has found many buyers, and each has made many fine photos.  Your old Sigma 50/1.4 is about $500 or about 25% more than Canon's 50/1.4, so it should be better at least in some way.  Now Sigma offers a $900 version of a 50mm, which is much less affordable than four of Canon's offerings.  And it's not weather-sealed.  Should Canon have offered a $900 large-sized non-weather-sealed 50mm lens?  That would be nice, but can you really blame Canon for not filling every possible price niche.  And I disagree about a 50mm f/2 IS.  That would be a "basic staple".  A 50/2 has been a basic staple in the photography world for generations.  Adding IS would make it even more attractive, especially for video.

Agree.  This forum seems to prefer the prospect of a large F/1.4 lens, but many, many photogs would snap up an F/2 IS with all the modern niceties of the 24/28/35 non-L refreshes.

F/1.4 glass creates unique images -- uniquely soft images everywhere other than the center.  Those aren't the shots I want to take.  I still think this new Sigma will be sharper when equivalently stopped down than the new Canon 50mm F/'something' IS (we still don't know the max aperture yet), but not by so much that I don't want IS and a much smaller lens.

My mind's not made up by any means -- let's see the reviews!  But my 'overall lens sensibilities' / 'best lens for what I shoot' spidey sense remains pretty firmly in the 'small + IS is better' camp.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 11:58:12 AM
By the way, all of the problems of the 50/1.2L didn't stop this guy from putting it to good use:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: candyman on January 07, 2014, 12:04:16 PM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.


I used to own the 50mm f/1.4 and used it on a 550D and 7D. Great lens for museums.
Africa Museum - very little light inside
550D iso3200 and f1.4(of course) - there is some noise here
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 12:28:15 PM
By the way, all of the problems of the 50/1.2L didn't stop this guy from putting it to good use:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/)

Absolutely, but they are pretty much all dead center, and it doesn't appear to be that much shots wide open. Awesome portraits though, and it has nothing to do with the lens, or at least very little. Light and subject and balancing ambient and flash is done soo right.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 12:28:58 PM

Good for lens collectors, but I imagine many people in the field would rather take the 35mm and do some cropping. That's what I'd do, at least.

Shoot a subject against any background with the subject being the same size with both 35 and 50 and you'll see just how different it looks. A 35 and 50 are different beasts.

I'm not saying that a 35mm replaces EVERY 50mm. I'm saying that, for me at least, it replaces a 50mm with the same characteristics and optical signature. I'd rather invest the money in something that really lets me do something different or at least in a different way.

Always in my opinion, of course, 50mm is a useless FL unless the lens you're using is really special (and I found a little gem in the CV Nokton 58mm). It's usually too long for a walkaround and too short for portraits. I'd rather have with me a 35mm and a 85mm instead of a 35mm and a 50mm - again, especially if both lenses have similar characteristics.

This time of year (when it's generally dark and glum) I find I carry both the 35 and the 50 a lot of the time. These focal lengths really are very different and have their specific uses although they can both perform as a general purpose lens depending on ones preference. Aside from the angle of view, the perspective is much more important. It took me a while to understand the 35, but in certain situations it offers me the ability to create pictures with more 'drama' to them.

+1 ,word for word.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: cliffwang on January 07, 2014, 12:42:35 PM
Yes! Love my 2 ART lenses, now they just need to make that UWA zoom

+1

Sigma please can you hear that?  I am also waiting your UWA zoom art lens.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 12:45:58 PM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.


I used to own the 50mm f/1.4 and used it on a 550D and 7D. Great lens for museums.
Africa Museum - very little light inside
550D iso3200 and f1.4(of course) - there is some noise here

It's a fabulous lens for this application; only the small displays could use a little more magnification though (on full frame) but I don't consider 1:5.6 vs 1:7.4 max magnification to be enough of a difference to justify getting the new Sigma for this feature only ;)

I visited a museum for ethnic sciences, they have some African stuff too :)
http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde (http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde)

Sample below: Canon EOS 5D Mark II ,1/50 sec, f/2.8 iso 2000, -0,67 EV
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 07, 2014, 01:00:12 PM
I'm really intrigued by this lens, esp. if it's less than $1k.  I think it's a given that it will smoke the Canon 1.4 and 1.2 on the test charts, but I wonder how it will compare to the 1.2 in results.  The 1.2 gives such a unique look and the color and contrast, and bokeh are amazing, it may be hard to top that.  For portraits, sharpness isn't the end all, be all, so it's going to be interesting.

I'll plan to pre-order one and compare it to my 1.2 and go from there.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 01:13:57 PM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.


I used to own the 50mm f/1.4 and used it on a 550D and 7D. Great lens for museums.
Africa Museum - very little light inside
550D iso3200 and f1.4(of course) - there is some noise here

It's a fabulous lens for this application; only the small displays could use a little more magnification though (on full frame) but I don't consider 1:5.6 vs 1:7.4 max magnification to be enough of a difference to justify getting the new Sigma for this feature only ;)

I visited a museum for ethnic sciences, they have some African stuff too :)
http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde (http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde)

Sample below: Canon EOS 5D Mark II ,1/50 sec, f/2.8 iso 2000, -0,67 EV

Clearly, more will be improved than min focus distance...   :P

See attached.  Again, this is just for sharpness -- and there is a ton more to a lens than sharpness -- but there clearly is  room for improvement, esp. on the wider end, esp. in the corners.

But you can see why some folks still prefer the Canon 50 F/1.4 over the L lens, and why most every 50mm prime shooter wants a better option.  This Sigma and the long-rumored Canon 50 refresh represent that opportunity.

- A
 
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
By the way, all of the problems of the 50/1.2L didn't stop this guy from putting it to good use:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/)

Absolutely, but they are pretty much all dead center, and it doesn't appear to be that much shots wide open. Awesome portraits though, and it has nothing to do with the lens, or at least very little. Light and subject and balancing ambient and flash is done soo right.

"nothing to do with the lens, or at least very little"? ...  I wouldn't discount the quality of the lens so much.  The lens definitely contributes something to these photos.  How much is hard to measure.  Yes, a lot of the photos are at f/2.   The 50L is fantastic at f/2, at least for this kind of photo.  The 50L can't do everything, but it does some things very well. 

A photographer I know switched to Nikon for a while and the 50L is the one lens he missed.  He's a wedding & portrait photographer with a very refined sense of how various lenses draw.  Neither Sigma nor Nikon could fully replace what he liked about the 50L.  He's now back to Canon (5D3) + Leica.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: cayenne on January 07, 2014, 01:30:26 PM
I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

The 50L sure does draw nice.  One good thing about this new Sigma is that it is about 4 ounces lighter than the 50L.  If it draws as nicely and autofocuses well, it may be a good substitute for the 50L and the 50/1.4 USM.

Goodness...does a bit of size and weight make THAT much of a difference to you folks?

I actually like having a nice lens with heft to it...feels like my money's worth was had, and I like the solid feel of it, like with my 70-200 f/28L II....sure it is big and heavy, but what a lens.

I rented the 50L from canon, and fell in love with it...definitely on my list to buy this year...

But really...is a little extra bulk and weight that big a deal? I  mean, do you all carry EVERY lens you own with you on every shoot?

Just curious...
:)

cayenne
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: cayenne on January 07, 2014, 01:33:20 PM
Assuming the fabrication and image quality is at the same level as the 35mm Art, it should be very good.  Compared to what else is on offer, it simply should be better option than the current Canon's 50mm AF choices of:

•The slow/noisy 50/1.8
•The non-ring USM in the 50 F/1.4 that often hunts
•The diva of the 50 F/1.2L that needs AFMA tuning

I used and sold the f1.8 and f1.4 Canon versions, current Sigma 50mm f1.4 (not good AF) and currently have the 50 F/1.2L. This Sigma might address many of the problems we've had with Canon. If so, I will buy one ASAP.
Anyone interested in this 50mm f1.2L lens?

What are you wanting to sell the 50L for?

:)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: candyman on January 07, 2014, 01:49:14 PM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.


I used to own the 50mm f/1.4 and used it on a 550D and 7D. Great lens for museums.
Africa Museum - very little light inside
550D iso3200 and f1.4(of course) - there is some noise here

It's a fabulous lens for this application; only the small displays could use a little more magnification though (on full frame) but I don't consider 1:5.6 vs 1:7.4 max magnification to be enough of a difference to justify getting the new Sigma for this feature only ;)

I visited a museum for ethnic sciences, they have some African stuff too :)
http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde (http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde)

Sample below: Canon EOS 5D Mark II ,1/50 sec, f/2.8 iso 2000, -0,67 EV


I must admit, I did not like the sigma 50 on my 5d MKIII. I sold it but I am awaiting the new sigma. First I would like to see some reviews with field examples using a FF camera
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 02:19:13 PM
I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

The 50L sure does draw nice.  One good thing about this new Sigma is that it is about 4 ounces lighter than the 50L.  If it draws as nicely and autofocuses well, it may be a good substitute for the 50L and the 50/1.4 USM.

Goodness...does a bit of size and weight make THAT much of a difference to you folks?

I actually like having a nice lens with heft to it...feels like my money's worth was had, and I like the solid feel of it, like with my 70-200 f/28L II....sure it is big and heavy, but what a lens.

I rented the 50L from canon, and fell in love with it...definitely on my list to buy this year...

But really...is a little extra bulk and weight that big a deal? I  mean, do you all carry EVERY lens you own with you on every shoot?

Just curious...
:)

cayenne

A little extra bulk and weight is normally not a big deal, but it can add up.  Consider a 10-hour wedding day.  Two cameras with lenses on your body, sometimes one or both with a flash.  More cameras & lenses & flashes in the bag, along with batteries for everything.  ALL 10 hours on your feet, constantly moving, constantly searching for pictures, constantly lifting camera to eye, sometimes holding camera over head.  Sometimes getting down low and then getting up.  Up and down stairs, sometimes a narrow curving passageway to a church balcony.  Crossing streets, sometimes in rain or snow.  Getting in & out of buses, limos, etc.  Then the weight & bulk start to add up, and smaller lenses have more appeal.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 02:36:35 PM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.


I used to own the 50mm f/1.4 and used it on a 550D and 7D. Great lens for museums.
Africa Museum - very little light inside
550D iso3200 and f1.4(of course) - there is some noise here

It's a fabulous lens for this application; only the small displays could use a little more magnification though (on full frame) but I don't consider 1:5.6 vs 1:7.4 max magnification to be enough of a difference to justify getting the new Sigma for this feature only ;)

I visited a museum for ethnic sciences, they have some African stuff too :)
http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde (http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde)

Sample below: Canon EOS 5D Mark II ,1/50 sec, f/2.8 iso 2000, -0,67 EV


I must admit, I did not like the sigma 50 on my 5d MKIII. I sold it but I am awaiting the new sigma. First I would like to see some reviews with field examples using a FF camera

What didn't you like, specifically? I'm actually having even more fun with this lens on the MkIII than on the MkII although it's harder to check critical sharpness on the Mk III at wide apertures (my Mk II has a precision matte focusing screen). On the Mk II I use manual override to tweak the sharpness at wide apertures, on the Mk III I've set AFMA +8 for this lens.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: sagittariansrock on January 07, 2014, 02:38:12 PM
I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

The 50L sure does draw nice.  One good thing about this new Sigma is that it is about 4 ounces lighter than the 50L.  If it draws as nicely and autofocuses well, it may be a good substitute for the 50L and the 50/1.4 USM.

Goodness...does a bit of size and weight make THAT much of a difference to you folks?

I actually like having a nice lens with heft to it...feels like my money's worth was had, and I like the solid feel of it, like with my 70-200 f/28L II....sure it is big and heavy, but what a lens.

I rented the 50L from canon, and fell in love with it...definitely on my list to buy this year...

But really...is a little extra bulk and weight that big a deal? I  mean, do you all carry EVERY lens you own with you on every shoot?

Just curious...
:)

cayenne

It really depends on the usage.
For me, the use of a prime is for darker, indoor informal times like parties, restaurants, get-togethers. I don't want to use a large conspicuous lens in those times. And the difference between, say the 35/1.4 and the older 35/2 is considerable.
When I was using APS-C, I seriously considered the Sigma 30/1.4 DC. I shall hold on to my 50/1.8 unless something worthwhile comes along- but I am quite hopeful. Let's see.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: bholliman on January 07, 2014, 02:41:17 PM
I still think this new Sigma will be sharper when equivalently stopped down than the new Canon 50mm F/'something' IS (we still don't know the max aperture yet), but not by so much that I don't want IS and a much smaller lens.

My mind's not made up by any means -- let's see the reviews!  But my 'overall lens sensibilities' / 'best lens for what I shoot' spidey sense remains pretty firmly in the 'small + IS is better' camp.


+1  I'm looking forward to the reviews. 

I'd certainly like to have a better 50mm option than my 50 1.4, but won't pull the trigger on the Sigma until I see if Canon is coming out with a 50mm f/1.8 or f/2 IS this year.  If they do, and its as good, small and light as the 35mm f/2 IS, I'll get one of those.   I seldom shoot below f/2.0 anyway and IS would be very nice.  Canon has done a terrific job with the other IS primes released recently.  The size of the Sigma is a negative in my book.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 02:48:53 PM
And the difference between, say the 35/1.4 and the older 35/2 is considerable.

I've got one of those 'old' 35/2's, and I love it for its tinyness. That, and the 50mm 1.8 mkI are great little primes that can always find a corner in my bag if I think I might need a prime but don't want the bulk, for instance when I travel :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 02:51:20 PM
I still think this new Sigma will be sharper when equivalently stopped down than the new Canon 50mm F/'something' IS (we still don't know the max aperture yet), but not by so much that I don't want IS and a much smaller lens.

My mind's not made up by any means -- let's see the reviews!  But my 'overall lens sensibilities' / 'best lens for what I shoot' spidey sense remains pretty firmly in the 'small + IS is better' camp.


+1  I'm looking forward to the reviews. 

I'd certainly like to have a better 50mm option than my 50 1.4, but won't pull the trigger on the Sigma until I see if Canon is coming out with a 50mm f/1.8 or f/2 IS this year.  If they do, and its as good, small and light as the 35mm f/2 IS, I'll get one of those.   I seldom shoot below f/2.0 anyway and IS would be very nice.  Canon has done a terrific job with the other IS primes released recently.  The size of the Sigma is a negative in my book.


Expect the new Canon 50 IS to highly consistently follow in the footsteps of the 24/28/35 non-L IS refreshes.

Expect the new Sigma 50 to highly consistently follow the Sigma 35 Art.

So I expect the new Sigma 50 to be slightly sharper than the new Canon 50 and likely be a shade quicker (again, that max aperture of the new Canon is unknown), but the Canon will be smaller and have IS.  I expect in this forum, between those two lenses it will be a 50-50 split of readers as for what's best for them.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: vlad on January 07, 2014, 02:59:04 PM
What didn't you like, specifically? I'm actually having even more fun with this lens on the MkIII than on the MkII although it's harder to check critical sharpness on the Mk III at wide apertures (my Mk II has a precision matte focusing screen). On the Mk II I use manual override to tweak the sharpness at wide apertures, on the Mk III I've set AFMA +8 for this lens.

FYI, I got a matte focusing screen for my MKIII from this site and it works great:
http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193 (http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Tiosabas on January 07, 2014, 03:11:17 PM
And the difference between, say the 35/1.4 and the older 35/2 is considerable.

I've got one of those 'old' 35/2's, and I love it for its tinyness. That, and the 50mm 1.8 mkI are great little primes that can always find a corner in my bag if I think I might need a prime but don't want the bulk, for instance when I travel :)

True, I currently have the old 35 f2 and am very happy with it and if I bought an upgraded 35 I would definitely keep it as it is a great little lens for size/performance ratio. Likewise if I got an upgraded 50 I would probably keep my Canon 50 1.4 for its size/performance ratio. These lenses have their flaws but the flaws certainly do not get in the way of the photography. I think large lenses sometimes do get in the way of the photography depending on the shooting situation.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 03:13:51 PM
What didn't you like, specifically? I'm actually having even more fun with this lens on the MkIII than on the MkII although it's harder to check critical sharpness on the Mk III at wide apertures (my Mk II has a precision matte focusing screen). On the Mk II I use manual override to tweak the sharpness at wide apertures, on the Mk III I've set AFMA +8 for this lens.

FYI, I got a matte focusing screen for my MKIII from this site and it works great:
http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193 (http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193)

Thanks for the link! I've bookmarked it for reference if I decide to go that direction. How does your 5D Mk III meter with this screen?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: AJ on January 07, 2014, 03:19:27 PM
Anyone notice this?

Quote
every lens is tested with Sigma’s proprietary modulation transfer function (MTF) “A1” measuring system before being shipped.

I think Sigma is really stepping it up.
First came adjustable focus - i.e. goodbye frontfocus problems.
Now: Goodbye decentering problems.
and at $900 this lens will be sharp and it'll have wonderful bokeh.  I have no doubts.
I think Sigma will be the new Zeiss - i.e. a premium 3rd party brand.


Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 03:31:38 PM
Anyone notice this?

Quote
every lens is tested with Sigma’s proprietary modulation transfer function (MTF) “A1” measuring system before being shipped.

I think Sigma is really stepping it up.
First came adjustable focus - i.e. goodbye frontfocus problems.
Now: Goodbye decentering problems.
and at $900 this lens will be sharp and it'll have wonderful bokeh.  I have no doubts.
I think Sigma will be the new Zeiss - i.e. a premium 3rd party brand.

This is what they announced when they introduced 'Sigma’s Global Vision'. Going by their recent offerings, they've really stepped up the QA/QC and of course, overall quality. I've got their 35mm and it's every bit as good as people say.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 07, 2014, 03:35:08 PM
Canon will be furious as they clearly have a 50 F/(fast: 1.4 to 2) IS lens on the way.  Until that comes out, Sigma will gobble up the 'sort-of-premium 50mm' sales between the 50L and the Canon 50/1.4.

Canon won't be furious because Canon is a corporation.  Another corporation's new lens is not something they need to "answer".   It's just business.  They'll make a new 50mm that meets their own design and business criteria, as well as their own timeline for product development.  It will be competitive in its own way, and each will find buyers.  Whatever it is, I do hope they offer an improved 50mm.

It's possible some Canon there will be. People get furious in business all the time, sometimes more than elsewhere almost. You've never seen a big exec or higher up or someone in a business flip out? Some of them are pretty combative and competitive. That said a single 50mm lens is just a single 50mm lens.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 07, 2014, 04:00:52 PM
FWIW I like the fact they kept the 77 mm filter size :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: bchernicoff on January 07, 2014, 04:54:31 PM

What are you wanting to sell the 50L for?

:)

I'll sell you mine for $1250. It's 3 months old.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jebrady03 on January 07, 2014, 05:02:53 PM
Now Sigma offers a $900 version of a 50mm, which is much less affordable than four of Canon's offerings.

Where have you found pricing info?  I've checked (what I thought was) everywhere and can't find it.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 07, 2014, 05:30:15 PM
Now Sigma offers a $900 version of a 50mm, which is much less affordable than four of Canon's offerings.

Where have you found pricing info?  I've checked (what I thought was) everywhere and can't find it.

Price isn't announced so much as presumed.  Most would peg this in the $800-1000 initial offering, so the 35mm Art's original (and current, if I'm not mistaken) price of $899 seems about right.

If we polled this forum for what they think it will be offered for, I think the majority of respondees (if honest about it), would peg this on or around that $899 figure.  That would likely be based on the assumption that this lens will be as good as the 35 Art.  If not so, all bets are off.   :D

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: slclick on January 07, 2014, 06:26:45 PM
Sigma Rumors, not saying they have a crystal ball here or anything, says it's going to be priced between the current S 50 and the 35. That would make it ~ high 6's to mid 7's. AND you have to love B&H's EDU discount on Sigmas. I picked up my 35 for 850.

Waiting for Canon to respond to this is a good thing to do, because no  matter if they don't reply it's a win since the retail will come down by then.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Quasimodo on January 07, 2014, 06:33:10 PM
What I do love about this anouncement is the audacity! Sigma is shameless. They should be content with their inferior position in the market place, but no, - for the couple of last years they have gone hunting :) It reminds me of a classic ad for a US car rental company in the eighties... "We know we are number two, therefore we try harder"
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 07, 2014, 06:39:58 PM
I already seen more than usual adds for the 50mm f1.4 Canon, and a couple of L's.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Dylan777 on January 07, 2014, 07:21:03 PM
"The new Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM Art has been reengineered and redesigned to set a new standard of performance in the Art line"

Will this out performs my f1.2 L  ::) ::) ::)

For sharpness?  Hell, the current 50 F/1.4 is sharper after F/2 or so.   Set a higher bar, will ya?  :P 

Again, for sharpness, I think the new 50 from Sigma will dust the 50 1.2L based on the performance of the Sigma 35mm Art:

Consider Roger's take, which is a clear read:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/11/sigma-35mm-f1-4-arrives-announces-new-world-order)
(Besides his nice article, note: "This lens kicks butt, takes names, and basically posterizes the manufacturers who make the cameras this lens will fit on.")

Then consider PhotoZone's take on both 35s and the 50 1.2L (poor away from center), which is attached.  Those are stellar F/1.4 and F/2 numbers away from center for the Sigma, by the way -- large aperture glass almost never shows such a good performance.

So I expect for sharpness the new Sigma to really take it to the 50 F/1.2L, but as everyone on this forum will say, there's more to it than that -- bokeh, distortion, chromatic effects, focus speed/accuracy/consistency, etc. may say that the Sigma is lacking in some department.  We'll see.

Hell, off the cuff, size may be a tipping point for some -- this lens had better cut diamonds it's so sharp if it's going to take up 3-4x the volume in my bag as my trusty old Canon 50/1.4, and I don't expect the new Canon 50 F/?.? IS to be much bigger than its physical 'twin', the 35mm f/2 IS.

- A

I can't compare this Sigma Vs my 50L yet. However, my 50L is quite awesome when shoot wide open or at f1.4. As an owner of 50mm f1.4 for 2-3yrs, I do know the history of this lens. The color and contrast from f1.4 are flat. I'm not good reading reviews or showing 3rd party testing data. I like to see my own photos ;)

There is no fun buying f1.4 prime, but can't get good results at near f1.4.

The 50 L is a wonderful lens, and as your shot shows, it draws nice, BUT what I see is dead center comp, if you were to shoot that same shot with one of the outer most points, it would be a mess. I know because I have tried, I had to be at around 2,8 to get decent sharpness with outer points, and even then I would just prefer the 24-70 at 50mm.

Just want to say, I have owned three 50 L's and I LOVE that lens, but it simply lacks so much sharpness and IQ slightly off center it's very limiting for composition.

There, I just recomposed the shot;D....I'm guessing it's a keeper NOW :P
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 07:41:19 PM
Now Sigma offers a $900 version of a 50mm, which is much less affordable than four of Canon's offerings.

Where have you found pricing info?  I've checked (what I thought was) everywhere and can't find it.

Sorry, I may be mistaken!  I thought I saw that price announced, but now I can't find it.  It's very possible I mistook someone's speculation as the price.  I guess we'll soon see.

Sigma will likely price it between Canon's 50/1.4 and 50/1.2L, targeting the big price gap between those two.  Sigma's 35/1.4 is priced roughly in-between Canon's 35/2 and 35/1.4L.  And Sigma's 85/1.4 is priced roughly in-between Canon's 85/1.8 and 85/1.2L.  These big price gaps are logical targets for a third party manufacturer.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jabbott on January 07, 2014, 08:27:00 PM
Further, you are dead on -- I see pros still using the old Canon 50 F/1.4 at weddings, concerts, etc. because the 1.2 lens isn't for them.  It's dreamy and arty, but it's not particularly sharp and I've read people having fits nailing the focus.  I've shot both, and I think the hunt-y AF of my 50 F/1.4 is slower to target but ultimately more reliably on target.

Count me as one of those... I used a 50mm f/1.4 on a 5D3 at a wedding recently (non-professionally) and the focusing performance while using AF Servo mode was absolutely appalling. Usually the 5D3 focuses on the nearest object and stays nicely locked in, but with the 50mm it was consistently focusing further out. The subjects were a few feet away so there should have been no issue. I've had much better luck with other lenses. If the price is right with this Sigma 50, and the AF performance is good, I'm in!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 07, 2014, 10:40:57 PM
When I said Canon has been sleeping "here"...I was referring to 50mm focal length.  This is the NORMAL focal length for FF and the Canon offerings have been in my mind disrespectful of photography.  I think Canon should be offering something solid, reliable and competent in this BASIC staple. The do not, as far as I am concerned. I bought the old Sigma 50mm f/1.4 (not without its own problems...but apparently I bought a good copy), because the canon offerings were so anemic...and the price on the L lens for what it offers is embarrassing. Also, if they ever do come to bat on this situation, (a 50mm f/2.0 IS is NOT addressing this BASIC issue) you can bet the pricing will suck the air out of the room.  Whatever is going on over at Sigma Corp. I for one hope that they keep sending lots of it our way. Hope this new Sigma busts the 50mm situation wide open.  We will see. (fingers crossed).

Canon offers five flavors of standard lens (40/2.8, 50/2.5, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/1.2).  Four of them are very affordable.  I would not call that "disrespectful of photography".  Each of them offers some advantages, and each has found many buyers, and each has made many fine photos.  Your old Sigma 50/1.4 is about $500 or about 25% more than Canon's 50/1.4, so it should be better at least in some way.  Now Sigma offers a $900 version of a 50mm, which is much less affordable than four of Canon's offerings.  And it's not weather-sealed.  Should Canon have offered a $900 large-sized non-weather-sealed 50mm lens?  That would be nice, but can you really blame Canon for not filling every possible price niche.  And I disagree about a 50mm f/2 IS.  That would be a "basic staple".  A 50/2 has been a basic staple in the photography world for generations.  Adding IS would make it even more attractive, especially for video.

I think you're mistaking releasing a bunch of gimmicky lenses for actually having a good set of lenses.

The f/2.5mm is a Macro lens it is not a general purpose lens. The 40mm f/2.8 was Canon's entry into a super cheap STM prime for their STM initiative, the 50mm f/1.8 was just a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes, and the 50mm L prime is horrible. The last version was so bad at f/1.0 that they dropped the entire idea, and the new version is equally horrible. At f/1.2 it has lower picture resolution than an iPhone 5. It also has image quality that has to be compared to lensbaby, a plastic lens made to be extremely horrible on purpose for visual effects. The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.

Canon's only non-gimicky 50mm is the 50mm f/1.4. And actually it's a pretty decent 50mm, it actually has more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released, prior to 2013. It is extremely hard to make a 50mm lens that is fast and most deliver extremely poor image quality. The Canon 50mm 1.4 actually beat out every other 50mm lens on the market at f/2, delivering what I would consider the fastest 50mm aperture with an average resolution of 2400 LPPH or more (which is the minimum resolution I consider acceptable), but it was disappointing to see such a poor focusing mechanism and such poor coatings because it wasn't updated for an extremely long time.

It's understandable how Canon let this lens stay the way it was without an update.

However, as Nikon with their 58mm f/1.4 and Zeiss with their 55mm Otus have shown that there are new ways to make a 50mm lens, and I think Sigma took notice, but Canon is lagging way behind, as this sample shows:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3737/10306753063_1b25a1927b_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: privatebydesign on January 07, 2014, 10:56:38 PM
What, exactly, is that example supposed to show? For the life of me I can't see why you couldn't shoot it with a $90 50mm f1.8. Certainly at this size it shows no unique quality.

The f1.2 did not replace the f1.0, Canon have made 50 and 55 f1.2's for a long long time.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 11:20:22 PM
What, exactly, is that example supposed to show? For the life of me I can't see why you couldn't shoot it with a $90 50mm f1.8. Certainly at this size it shows no unique quality.

The f1.2 did not replace the f1.0, Canon have made 50 and 55 f1.2's for a long long time.

The dog photo is an official Zeiss sample image from their new $4,000 Otus 55mm lens:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/carlzeisslenses/10203490974/#in/set-72157635236491881 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/carlzeisslenses/10203490974/#in/set-72157635236491881)
It may be hard to tell in the small version, but it shows phenomenal sharpness and fantastic bokeh. That shot was made at f/1.4 against the sunlight and yet it is amazingly free of the usual lens faults.  No $90 50/1.8 lens can make that photo.

If you check out the full sized original, you'll see that it is a pretty special lens, probably the best 50 ever:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/carlzeisslenses/10203490974/#sizes/o/in/set-72157635236491881/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/carlzeisslenses/10203490974/#sizes/o/in/set-72157635236491881/)

However, showing a photo from a $4,000 50mm lens hardly proves anything about Canon lagging way behind, unless the point is that Canon should make a $4,000 50mm lens.  Canon's 50mm lenses, especially the 50/1.2L, have been used for a tremendous amount of professional work even if some people throw all sorts of criticism at them.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 11:44:04 PM
The f/2.5mm is a Macro lens it is not a general purpose lens. The 40mm f/2.8 was Canon's entry into a super cheap STM prime for their STM initiative, the 50mm f/1.8 was just a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes, and the 50mm L prime is horrible. The last version was so bad at f/1.0 that they dropped the entire idea, and the new version is equally horrible. At f/1.2 it has lower picture resolution than an iPhone 5. It also has image quality that has to be compared to lensbaby, a plastic lens made to be extremely horrible on purpose for visual effects. The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.

Canon's only non-gimicky 50mm is the 50mm f/1.4. And actually it's a pretty decent 50mm, it actually has more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released, prior to 2013. It is extremely hard to make a 50mm lens that is fast and most deliver extremely poor image quality. The Canon 50mm 1.4 actually beat out every other 50mm lens on the market at f/2, delivering what I would consider the fastest 50mm aperture with an average resolution of 2400 LPPH or more (which is the minimum resolution I consider acceptable), but it was disappointing to see such a poor focusing mechanism and such poor coatings because it wasn't updated for an extremely long time.

Just because you don't personally use or like a lens doesn't make it "gimmicky". 

The original 50/1.0 lens, which you call "horrible", was almost unique in its time and still makes beautiful photos at f/1.0:  http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263 (http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263)

The 50/2.5 macro is for any purpose you want to use it, not just macro.  It's cheap and sharp, though it has the old buzzy AF motor.  Cheap + sharp + 1:2 macro = a good combination.

The 40/2.8 is a wonderful pancake lens and is a cheap way of shrinking your big dslr and still having really sharp photos.  Brilliant and a joy to use.  Cheap + sharp + very small = a good combination

You're right, the 50/1.8 is "just" a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes.  But wait, that's a good thing.  What's wrong with that?  That actually makes some people very happy.

The "horrible" 50/1.2L which you compare to a plastic Lensbaby has been used for a tremendous amount of professional work.  It is good enough for David Burnett, Sebastiao Salgado and Mario Sorrenti, but not good enough for you?  And this guy seems to make decent photos with it:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/) ... not bad for using what you say is "one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period."

As for the Canon 50mm f/1.4 having more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released prior to 2013 ... not exactly.  That would easily have been the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux:  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout)

In the Lensrentals "Great 50mm Shootout", you'll note that both Canon 50/1.4 and 50/1.2L scored higher in resolution than any of the 50's from Nikon, Sigma or Zeiss.  That's pretty good for lenses you consider gimmicky or not good.  Leica scored higher, but Leica is in a much higher price category.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 07, 2014, 11:49:32 PM
Really.

Canon 50mm f1.4 currently a $299 lens, I only had a horribly back light f1.8 example to show as a comparison to the dog. No processing of any merit, no issues with the backiight and individual hairs are pin sharp, bokeh is pretty darn smooth too..........

So illuminate me on where the additional $3,701 would be going?

First full image, second 100% crop.
I agree that the Canon 50/1.4 is a fine lens for $299.  I didn't bring up the dog image sample, so I won't try to persuade you that the Otus is worth $4,000, although I'm pretty sure it will test better than any 50 ever.  I'm not sure why that lens is being used as an example of why Canon is "lagging way behind".

Edited to add:  your shot is at f/1.8 and the Canon 50/1.4 sharpens up nicely with every click that you stop down.  Even 1.8 is improved over 1.4.  By f/2.8 or f/4 it is great.  But it is not that sharp at f/1.4 where it tends to show halos.  And it is not that sharp out to the edges.  And it wouldn't be as sharp on a 36mp Nikon D800 (which they used with the Otus for the dog shot).  There are some test images online (not sure where I saw them) from the Otus that show fantastic sharpness to the edges even at f/1.4.  That said, I'm not sure I would want carry the Otus, or manually focus it, or pay $4k for it!  The Canon 50/1.4 offers great value for $299.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Dylan777 on January 08, 2014, 12:20:48 AM
When I said Canon has been sleeping "here"...I was referring to 50mm focal length.  This is the NORMAL focal length for FF and the Canon offerings have been in my mind disrespectful of photography.  I think Canon should be offering something solid, reliable and competent in this BASIC staple. The do not, as far as I am concerned. I bought the old Sigma 50mm f/1.4 (not without its own problems...but apparently I bought a good copy), because the canon offerings were so anemic...and the price on the L lens for what it offers is embarrassing. Also, if they ever do come to bat on this situation, (a 50mm f/2.0 IS is NOT addressing this BASIC issue) you can bet the pricing will suck the air out of the room.  Whatever is going on over at Sigma Corp. I for one hope that they keep sending lots of it our way. Hope this new Sigma busts the 50mm situation wide open.  We will see. (fingers crossed).

Canon offers five flavors of standard lens (40/2.8, 50/2.5, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/1.2).  Four of them are very affordable.  I would not call that "disrespectful of photography".  Each of them offers some advantages, and each has found many buyers, and each has made many fine photos.  Your old Sigma 50/1.4 is about $500 or about 25% more than Canon's 50/1.4, so it should be better at least in some way.  Now Sigma offers a $900 version of a 50mm, which is much less affordable than four of Canon's offerings.  And it's not weather-sealed.  Should Canon have offered a $900 large-sized non-weather-sealed 50mm lens?  That would be nice, but can you really blame Canon for not filling every possible price niche.  And I disagree about a 50mm f/2 IS.  That would be a "basic staple".  A 50/2 has been a basic staple in the photography world for generations.  Adding IS would make it even more attractive, especially for video.

I think you're mistaking releasing a bunch of gimmicky lenses for actually having a good set of lenses.

The f/2.5mm is a Macro lens it is not a general purpose lens. The 40mm f/2.8 was Canon's entry into a super cheap STM prime for their STM initiative, the 50mm f/1.8 was just a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes, and the 50mm L prime is horrible. The last version was so bad at f/1.0 that they dropped the entire idea, and the new version is equally horrible. At f/1.2 it has lower picture resolution than an iPhone 5. It also has image quality that has to be compared to lensbaby, a plastic lens made to be extremely horrible on purpose for visual effects. The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.

Canon's only non-gimicky 50mm is the 50mm f/1.4. And actually it's a pretty decent 50mm, it actually has more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released, prior to 2013. It is extremely hard to make a 50mm lens that is fast and most deliver extremely poor image quality. The Canon 50mm 1.4 actually beat out every other 50mm lens on the market at f/2, delivering what I would consider the fastest 50mm aperture with an average resolution of 2400 LPPH or more (which is the minimum resolution I consider acceptable), but it was disappointing to see such a poor focusing mechanism and such poor coatings because it wasn't updated for an extremely long time.

It's understandable how Canon let this lens stay the way it was without an update.

However, as Nikon with their 58mm f/1.4 and Zeiss with their 55mm Otus have shown that there are new ways to make a 50mm lens, and I think Sigma took notice, but Canon is lagging way behind, as this sample shows:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3737/10306753063_1b25a1927b_b.jpg)

@ f1.2, I can see a "donkey" through my 50L 8) blahhh-blahhh-blahhh

How often do you hear "my f1.4 prime is so dam good from f2.8 to smaller?"




Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Artifex on January 08, 2014, 08:47:21 AM
The f/2.5mm is a Macro lens it is not a general purpose lens. The 40mm f/2.8 was Canon's entry into a super cheap STM prime for their STM initiative, the 50mm f/1.8 was just a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes, and the 50mm L prime is horrible. The last version was so bad at f/1.0 that they dropped the entire idea, and the new version is equally horrible. At f/1.2 it has lower picture resolution than an iPhone 5. It also has image quality that has to be compared to lensbaby, a plastic lens made to be extremely horrible on purpose for visual effects. The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.

Canon's only non-gimicky 50mm is the 50mm f/1.4. And actually it's a pretty decent 50mm, it actually has more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released, prior to 2013. It is extremely hard to make a 50mm lens that is fast and most deliver extremely poor image quality. The Canon 50mm 1.4 actually beat out every other 50mm lens on the market at f/2, delivering what I would consider the fastest 50mm aperture with an average resolution of 2400 LPPH or more (which is the minimum resolution I consider acceptable), but it was disappointing to see such a poor focusing mechanism and such poor coatings because it wasn't updated for an extremely long time.

Just because you don't personally use or like a lens doesn't make it "gimmicky". 

The original 50/1.0 lens, which you call "horrible", was almost unique in its time and still makes beautiful photos at f/1.0:  http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263 (http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263)

The 50/2.5 macro is for any purpose you want to use it, not just macro.  It's cheap and sharp, though it has the old buzzy AF motor.  Cheap + sharp + 1:2 macro = a good combination.

The 40/2.8 is a wonderful pancake lens and is a cheap way of shrinking your big dslr and still having really sharp photos.  Brilliant and a joy to use.  Cheap + sharp + very small = a good combination

You're right, the 50/1.8 is "just" a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes.  But wait, that's a good thing.  What's wrong with that?  That actually makes some people very happy.

The "horrible" 50/1.2L which you compare to a plastic Lensbaby has been used for a tremendous amount of professional work.  It is good enough for David Burnett, Sebastiao Salgado and Mario Sorrenti, but not good enough for you?  And this guy seems to make decent photos with it:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/) ... not bad for using what you say is "one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period."

As for the Canon 50mm f/1.4 having more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released prior to 2013 ... not exactly.  That would easily have been the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux:  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout)

In the Lensrentals "Great 50mm Shootout", you'll note that both Canon 50/1.4 and 50/1.2L scored higher in resolution than any of the 50's from Nikon, Sigma or Zeiss.  That's pretty good for lenses you consider gimmicky or not good.  Leica scored higher, but Leica is in a much higher price category.

Moreover, just looking at lens in EF-mount, the Zeiss 50mm f/2 clearly beats the EF 50mm f/1.4 at f/2.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 08, 2014, 10:30:14 AM
The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.
LOL, really?  Have you ever used this lens?  I guess build quality and the final photo don't matter much if it can't break any resolution records and have perfect coma for astrophotography.  It's a portrait lens, not a macro lens, not a astro lens, etc., and if you look at actual photos, the lens can be pretty damned amazing in the right hands.

Then again, take a look at some of the photos taken with the 50 1.8 or even the horrible 28 1.8 or 35 2 - even the "worst" lenses can make incredible photos in the right hands and when used for their intended purpose.

I hesitated to buy the 50 1.2 for many years based on test charts and comments like yours, but then I used it and was blown away by the photos I could take with it.  The upcoming Sigma may test better, but until I use it and see the results on actual photos, I'll withhold judgement.  In the meantime, I'll go back to shooting with, "One of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period."  ;D.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ecka on January 08, 2014, 10:35:27 AM
The f/2.5mm is a Macro lens it is not a general purpose lens. The 40mm f/2.8 was Canon's entry into a super cheap STM prime for their STM initiative, the 50mm f/1.8 was just a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes, and the 50mm L prime is horrible. The last version was so bad at f/1.0 that they dropped the entire idea, and the new version is equally horrible. At f/1.2 it has lower picture resolution than an iPhone 5. It also has image quality that has to be compared to lensbaby, a plastic lens made to be extremely horrible on purpose for visual effects. The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.

Canon's only non-gimicky 50mm is the 50mm f/1.4. And actually it's a pretty decent 50mm, it actually has more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released, prior to 2013. It is extremely hard to make a 50mm lens that is fast and most deliver extremely poor image quality. The Canon 50mm 1.4 actually beat out every other 50mm lens on the market at f/2, delivering what I would consider the fastest 50mm aperture with an average resolution of 2400 LPPH or more (which is the minimum resolution I consider acceptable), but it was disappointing to see such a poor focusing mechanism and such poor coatings because it wasn't updated for an extremely long time.

Just because you don't personally use or like a lens doesn't make it "gimmicky". 

The original 50/1.0 lens, which you call "horrible", was almost unique in its time and still makes beautiful photos at f/1.0:  http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263 (http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263)

The 50/2.5 macro is for any purpose you want to use it, not just macro.  It's cheap and sharp, though it has the old buzzy AF motor.  Cheap + sharp + 1:2 macro = a good combination.

The 40/2.8 is a wonderful pancake lens and is a cheap way of shrinking your big dslr and still having really sharp photos.  Brilliant and a joy to use.  Cheap + sharp + very small = a good combination

You're right, the 50/1.8 is "just" a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes.  But wait, that's a good thing.  What's wrong with that?  That actually makes some people very happy.

The "horrible" 50/1.2L which you compare to a plastic Lensbaby has been used for a tremendous amount of professional work.  It is good enough for David Burnett, Sebastiao Salgado and Mario Sorrenti, but not good enough for you?  And this guy seems to make decent photos with it:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/) ... not bad for using what you say is "one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period."

As for the Canon 50mm f/1.4 having more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released prior to 2013 ... not exactly.  That would easily have been the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux:  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout)

In the Lensrentals "Great 50mm Shootout", you'll note that both Canon 50/1.4 and 50/1.2L scored higher in resolution than any of the 50's from Nikon, Sigma or Zeiss.  That's pretty good for lenses you consider gimmicky or not good.  Leica scored higher, but Leica is in a much higher price category.

Moreover, just looking at lens in EF-mount, the Zeiss 50mm f/2 clearly beats the EF 50mm f/1.4 at f/2.

... which is a $1200 manual focus f/2 macro lens. Lensrentals clearly shows that Nikkor 50/1.4 beats all of it's price category rivals and Sigma is the sharpest in the center, while the good old plastic-fantastic 50/1.8II would put all them to shame, for the price that is :).
I'm not a pixel-peeper, but I do prefer sharp-cropping over soft-zooming. Any decent lens can produce perfectly good and sharp snapshots. Actually, you don't need a DSLR for that (or anything with a big sensor, you can make bokeh in photoshop these days :) ). 50L is not my dream fifty, nor is the 50/1.4USM. If the new Sigma 50/1.4 is anything like their 35Art, then I'm getting one, but for now - nothing beats my 40.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Eldar on January 08, 2014, 10:37:37 AM
The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.
LOL, really?  Have you ever used this lens?  I guess build quality and the final photo don't matter much if it can't break any resolution records and have perfect coma for astrophotography.  It's a portrait lens, not a macro lens, not a astro lens, etc., and if you look at actual photos, the lens can be pretty damned amazing in the right hands.

Then again, take a look at some of the photos taken with the 50 1.8 or even the horrible 28 1.8 or 35 2 - even the "worst" lenses can make incredible photos in the right hands and when used for their intended purpose.

I hesitated to buy the 50 1.2 for many years based on test charts and comments like yours, but then I used it and was blown away by the photos I could take with it.  The upcoming Sigma may test better, but until I use it and see the results on actual photos, I'll withhold judgement.  In the meantime, I'll go back to shooting with, "One of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period."  ;D.
+1
There are some pixel peeping, chart readers, apparently without a clue on what a lens is supposed to do. Both the 50 f1.2L and the 35 f1.4L is being beaten up on various forums, this one included. At the same time, photographers who are actually using these lenses produce phenomenal images with them.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: candyman on January 08, 2014, 10:39:40 AM
I'm very happy with my current f/1.4 Sigma - but did anyone notice the maximum magnification ratio of 1:5.6?  The MMR of the current model is only 1:7.4, something I stumble into when I do museums with this lens.


I used to own the 50mm f/1.4 and used it on a 550D and 7D. Great lens for museums.
Africa Museum - very little light inside
550D iso3200 and f1.4(of course) - there is some noise here

It's a fabulous lens for this application; only the small displays could use a little more magnification though (on full frame) but I don't consider 1:5.6 vs 1:7.4 max magnification to be enough of a difference to justify getting the new Sigma for this feature only ;)

I visited a museum for ethnic sciences, they have some African stuff too :)
http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde (http://www.mrsfotografie.nl/musea/museum-volkenkunde)

Sample below: Canon EOS 5D Mark II ,1/50 sec, f/2.8 iso 2000, -0,67 EV


I must admit, I did not like the sigma 50 on my 5d MKIII. I sold it but I am awaiting the new sigma. First I would like to see some reviews with field examples using a FF camera

What didn't you like, specifically? I'm actually having even more fun with this lens on the MkIII than on the MkII although it's harder to check critical sharpness on the Mk III at wide apertures (my Mk II has a precision matte focusing screen). On the Mk II I use manual override to tweak the sharpness at wide apertures, on the Mk III I've set AFMA +8 for this lens.


Of course it is a personal opinion based on the combination of my camera and the specific lens but I found it less sharp it the center and especially corners (though I did run Focal to set AFMA)
Considering the praise on the Sigma 35mm I have high expectation of the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art
I truly hope the price will be more in the 600 euro range rather than 800 to 900. The current 50mm of Sigma is around 440 euro. The 35mm Art went down to around 730 euro.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 08, 2014, 11:09:39 AM
Moreover, just looking at lens in EF-mount, the Zeiss 50mm f/2 clearly beats the EF 50mm f/1.4 at f/2.

Where are you seeing this?  How does the $1,283 Zeiss beat the Canon 50/1.4?  Here are the numbers at f/2 according to LensRentals:
Canon 50/1.4 = 790 center, 660 average
Zeiss 50/2 = 760 center, 620 average
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout)

They are close, but the Canon 50/1.4 scored higher.  The Zeiss is arguably better according to charts over at The-Digital-Picture, but again they are close.  Of course, the Zeiss should be better, being 3X or 4X more expensive.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 08, 2014, 11:28:28 AM

Initial hands-on with the new Sigma 50mm here:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/ (http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/)

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: RLPhoto on January 08, 2014, 11:38:32 AM
Really.

Canon 50mm f1.4 currently a $299 lens, I only had a horribly back light f1.8 example to show as a comparison to the dog. No processing of any merit, no issues with the backiight and individual hairs are pin sharp, bokeh is pretty darn smooth too..........

So illuminate me on where the additional $3,701 would be going?

First full image, second 100% crop.

Wow. A photo. I hope this trend continues.

I love the 50mm Focal length. I'll probably give a swing at this new sigma, being that the first sigma 50mm was a horrid back focusing-front focusing monstrosity. I'm also one of those who quite like the 50L and haven't found a suitor to surpass it for my needs.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 08, 2014, 12:42:37 PM
I truly hope the price will be more in the 600 euro range rather than 800 to 900. The current 50mm of Sigma is around 440 euro. The 35mm Art went down to around 730 euro.

That would be good, but knowing myself I will sooner or later be tempted by this new offering, especially of the price drops below that of the 35 ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 08, 2014, 01:11:06 PM
(http://www.sigma-global.com/en/lenses/cas/product/art/a_35_14/data/mtf.gif)
(http://photorumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Sigma-50mm-f1.4-DG-HSM-Art-lens-MTF-chart.png)

Sharpness seems to be very similar to the 35mm. Probably better bokeh.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: vlad on January 08, 2014, 03:23:21 PM
What didn't you like, specifically? I'm actually having even more fun with this lens on the MkIII than on the MkII although it's harder to check critical sharpness on the Mk III at wide apertures (my Mk II has a precision matte focusing screen). On the Mk II I use manual override to tweak the sharpness at wide apertures, on the Mk III I've set AFMA +8 for this lens.

FYI, I got a matte focusing screen for my MKIII from this site and it works great:
http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193 (http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193)

Thanks for the link! I've bookmarked it for reference if I decide to go that direction. How does your 5D Mk III meter with this screen?

I haven't noticed any metering abnormalities.  I usually shoot in Av with evaluative metering and occasionally bump to +1/3 EV to expose to the right, which is pretty much what I was doing before on a 5Dc with Canon's matte EE-S screen.

And lest anyone consider this off-topic, in my opinion, an upgraded focusing screen is pretty much a requirement if you plan on doing manual focusing with the fast 50's being discussed :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 08, 2014, 03:44:36 PM
What didn't you like, specifically? I'm actually having even more fun with this lens on the MkIII than on the MkII although it's harder to check critical sharpness on the Mk III at wide apertures (my Mk II has a precision matte focusing screen). On the Mk II I use manual override to tweak the sharpness at wide apertures, on the Mk III I've set AFMA +8 for this lens.

FYI, I got a matte focusing screen for my MKIII from this site and it works great:
http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193 (http://www.focusingscreen.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_134&products_id=1193)

Thanks for the link! I've bookmarked it for reference if I decide to go that direction. How does your 5D Mk III meter with this screen?

I haven't noticed any metering abnormalities.  I usually shoot in Av with evaluative metering and occasionally bump to +1/3 EV to expose to the right, which is pretty much what I was doing before on a 5Dc with Canon's matte EE-S screen.

Thank you ;)

And lest anyone consider this off-topic, in my opinion, an upgraded focusing screen is pretty much a requirement if you plan on doing manual focusing with the fast 50's being discussed :)

+1!!!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Artifex on January 08, 2014, 03:48:06 PM
Moreover, just looking at lens in EF-mount, the Zeiss 50mm f/2 clearly beats the EF 50mm f/1.4 at f/2.

Where are you seeing this?  How does the $1,283 Zeiss beat the Canon 50/1.4?  Here are the numbers at f/2 according to LensRentals:
Canon 50/1.4 = 790 center, 660 average
Zeiss 50/2 = 760 center, 620 average
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout)

They are close, but the Canon 50/1.4 scored higher.  The Zeiss is arguably better according to charts over at The-Digital-Picture, but again they are close.  Of course, the Zeiss should be better, being 3X or 4X more expensive.

I am seeing this on the MTF graphs and reviews of lenstip and photozone. They are, from my expirence at least, trusted sources. Also, the fact that it is more expensive doesn't affect the fact that it is, according to the graphs, sharper; I haven't talked about value, but only image quality.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Artifex on January 08, 2014, 03:54:01 PM
The f/2.5mm is a Macro lens it is not a general purpose lens. The 40mm f/2.8 was Canon's entry into a super cheap STM prime for their STM initiative, the 50mm f/1.8 was just a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes, and the 50mm L prime is horrible. The last version was so bad at f/1.0 that they dropped the entire idea, and the new version is equally horrible. At f/1.2 it has lower picture resolution than an iPhone 5. It also has image quality that has to be compared to lensbaby, a plastic lens made to be extremely horrible on purpose for visual effects. The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.

Canon's only non-gimicky 50mm is the 50mm f/1.4. And actually it's a pretty decent 50mm, it actually has more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released, prior to 2013. It is extremely hard to make a 50mm lens that is fast and most deliver extremely poor image quality. The Canon 50mm 1.4 actually beat out every other 50mm lens on the market at f/2, delivering what I would consider the fastest 50mm aperture with an average resolution of 2400 LPPH or more (which is the minimum resolution I consider acceptable), but it was disappointing to see such a poor focusing mechanism and such poor coatings because it wasn't updated for an extremely long time.

Just because you don't personally use or like a lens doesn't make it "gimmicky". 

The original 50/1.0 lens, which you call "horrible", was almost unique in its time and still makes beautiful photos at f/1.0:  http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263 (http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263)

The 50/2.5 macro is for any purpose you want to use it, not just macro.  It's cheap and sharp, though it has the old buzzy AF motor.  Cheap + sharp + 1:2 macro = a good combination.

The 40/2.8 is a wonderful pancake lens and is a cheap way of shrinking your big dslr and still having really sharp photos.  Brilliant and a joy to use.  Cheap + sharp + very small = a good combination

You're right, the 50/1.8 is "just" a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes.  But wait, that's a good thing.  What's wrong with that?  That actually makes some people very happy.

The "horrible" 50/1.2L which you compare to a plastic Lensbaby has been used for a tremendous amount of professional work.  It is good enough for David Burnett, Sebastiao Salgado and Mario Sorrenti, but not good enough for you?  And this guy seems to make decent photos with it:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/) ... not bad for using what you say is "one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period."

As for the Canon 50mm f/1.4 having more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released prior to 2013 ... not exactly.  That would easily have been the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux:  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout)

In the Lensrentals "Great 50mm Shootout", you'll note that both Canon 50/1.4 and 50/1.2L scored higher in resolution than any of the 50's from Nikon, Sigma or Zeiss.  That's pretty good for lenses you consider gimmicky or not good.  Leica scored higher, but Leica is in a much higher price category.

Moreover, just looking at lens in EF-mount, the Zeiss 50mm f/2 clearly beats the EF 50mm f/1.4 at f/2.

... which is a $1200 manual focus f/2 macro lens. Lensrentals clearly shows that Nikkor 50/1.4 beats all of it's price category rivals and Sigma is the sharpest in the center, while the good old plastic-fantastic 50/1.8II would put all them to shame, for the price that is :).
I'm not a pixel-peeper, but I do prefer sharp-cropping over soft-zooming. Any decent lens can produce perfectly good and sharp snapshots. Actually, you don't need a DSLR for that (or anything with a big sensor, you can make bokeh in photoshop these days :) ). 50L is not my dream fifty, nor is the 50/1.4USM. If the new Sigma 50/1.4 is anything like their 35Art, then I'm getting one, but for now - nothing beats my 40.

Of course, I haven't talked about value, but only sharpness. Of course, the Ef f/1.4 is faster, cheaper and have AF, while the Zeiss 50 f/2 MP is sharper, have 1:2 magnification and have a much better build quality and focus ring for MF. They are very diffent produces for different needs and different photographers.

I can only agree with you though; if the Sigma 50mm Art is anything like the 35mm Art, I am also getting one!  ;D
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Eldar on January 08, 2014, 03:59:05 PM
And lest anyone consider this off-topic, in my opinion, an upgraded focusing screen is pretty much a requirement if you plan on doing manual focusing with the fast 50's being discussed :)
I can confirm that. My manual focus experience since I got the 5D (back in the dark ages) was almost exclusively limited to tripod mounted tilt&shift with live view (and some macro), until I got the Otus 55. With my eyesight, which is not great anymore, but far from blind, it is absolutely paramount to have a better focusing screen to get sharp shots at f1.4. It would really be a shame if I only used this lens at f4 and upwards, because I was not able to focus.

So Canon; Please listen; Make us happy and give us the proper focusing screens for the 1DX and all its unborn relatives.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 08, 2014, 04:34:18 PM
And lest anyone consider this off-topic, in my opinion, an upgraded focusing screen is pretty much a requirement if you plan on doing manual focusing with the fast 50's being discussed :)
I can confirm that. My manual focus experience since I got the 5D (back in the dark ages) was almost exclusively limited to tripod mounted tilt&shift with live view (and some macro), until I got the Otus 55. With my eyesight, which is not great anymore, but far from blind, it is absolutely paramount to have a better focusing screen to get sharp shots at f1.4. It would really be a shame if I only used this lens at f4 and upwards, because I was not able to focus.

So Canon; Please listen; Make us happy and give us the proper focusing screens for the 1DX and all its unborn relatives.
+1 this is exactly why I hold onto my 5DII with super precision matte focusing screen.  This despite LiveView and AF...I like to SEE that my lens is in focus, especially with the f/1.2 lenses :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 08, 2014, 04:48:05 PM
And lest anyone consider this off-topic, in my opinion, an upgraded focusing screen is pretty much a requirement if you plan on doing manual focusing with the fast 50's being discussed :)
I can confirm that. My manual focus experience since I got the 5D (back in the dark ages) was almost exclusively limited to tripod mounted tilt&shift with live view (and some macro), until I got the Otus 55. With my eyesight, which is not great anymore, but far from blind, it is absolutely paramount to have a better focusing screen to get sharp shots at f1.4. It would really be a shame if I only used this lens at f4 and upwards, because I was not able to focus.

So Canon; Please listen; Make us happy and give us the proper focusing screens for the 1DX and all its unborn relatives.
+1 this is exactly why I hold onto my 5DII with super precision matte focusing screen.  This despite LiveView and AF...I like to SEE that my lens is in focus, especially with the f/1.2 lenses :)

+1, I'm holding onto my 5DII with super precision matte focusing screen as well :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: DJL329 on January 08, 2014, 05:17:03 PM
What I do love about this anouncement is the audacity! Sigma is shameless. They should be content with their inferior position in the market place, but no, - for the couple of last years they have gone hunting :) It reminds me of a classic ad for a US car rental company in the eighties... "We know we are number two, therefore we try harder"

Good one!  And let's not forget that Canon used to be number two, to Nikon.  It was their audacious move to the auto-focus EF mount that catapulted them to number one.   :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 08, 2014, 05:22:46 PM
What I do love about this anouncement is the audacity! Sigma is shameless. They should be content with their inferior position in the market place, but no, - for the couple of last years they have gone hunting :) It reminds me of a classic ad for a US car rental company in the eighties... "We know we are number two, therefore we try harder"

Good one!  And let's not forget that Canon used to be number two, to Nikon.  It was their audacious move to the auto-focus EF mount that catapulted them to number one.   :)

That, the fluorite elements and being cheaper (though it seems hard to believe today).
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mhlas7 on January 08, 2014, 05:25:45 PM
All the rumors are pointing to Canon releasing a 50mm f/1.8 IS to replace the current 50mm f/1.4. I have no interest in image stabalization at the 50mm focal length so I am inclined to go with the Sigma and if it is as good as the Sigma 35mm, it may have better IQ than the new Canon 50mm.

I think Sigma scored a home run with this lens
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: captainkanji on January 08, 2014, 05:38:57 PM
I love the 50 1.4 when it doesn't miss focus and it's at f/2 or higher. If the Sigma is better and priced at around $600-700 (or less) I would seriously consider it. It can't be less durable than a Canons 50 1.4. I've had to get it repaired once and always use a lens hood since (I set my bag down too hard and knocked something loose).  I'm just glad there is some competition.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 08, 2014, 06:09:07 PM
All the rumors are pointing to Canon releasing a 50mm f/1.8 IS to replace the current 50mm f/1.4. I have no interest in image stabalization at the 50mm focal length so I am inclined to go with the Sigma and if it is as good as the Sigma 35mm, it may have better IQ than the new Canon 50mm.

I think Sigma scored a home run with this lens

You are not wrong.  As beaten to death earlier in this thread, some folks value IS and others value speed. 

I think Canon and Sigma's new 50mm lenses will be both be hits... just with different groups of people.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Bennymiata on January 08, 2014, 07:11:02 PM
Sharpness, MTF curves - these are not the most important things for a 50mm lens.
Colour, contrast and clarity are far more important.
This is why the 50mm 1.2L is so loved by those that use it often.
If you can't get sharp photos with a 1.2L, then YOUR technique is not right for this lens.

I'd love to try this new Sigma lens, as the recent Sigma's I've bought are really very good indeed and should give a bit of a hurry up to Canon and Nikon.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 08, 2014, 07:16:33 PM
What, exactly, is that example supposed to show? For the life of me I can't see why you couldn't shoot it with a $90 50mm f1.8. Certainly at this size it shows no unique quality.


No, even at that size there is an extreme and obvious difference, but without a back to back comparison most people don't appreciate quality. A 50mm f/1.8, would not have the same buttery smooth transition between in and out of focus. It would not have incredible sharpness without any processing, it would not be free of extreme purple fringing, it would not have the insane reduction of lens flare, and it would not be free from hazing over the entire frame. That image has no added contrast or sharpness, yet it looks like a processed image.

Here's a back to back comparison:

(http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12275850/img/Picture-Box/zeiss55.jpg)

It is a night and day difference.

The f/2.5mm is a Macro lens it is not a general purpose lens. The 40mm f/2.8 was Canon's entry into a super cheap STM prime for their STM initiative, the 50mm f/1.8 was just a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes, and the 50mm L prime is horrible. The last version was so bad at f/1.0 that they dropped the entire idea, and the new version is equally horrible. At f/1.2 it has lower picture resolution than an iPhone 5. It also has image quality that has to be compared to lensbaby, a plastic lens made to be extremely horrible on purpose for visual effects. The 50mm f/1.2L is one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period.

Canon's only non-gimicky 50mm is the 50mm f/1.4. And actually it's a pretty decent 50mm, it actually has more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released, prior to 2013. It is extremely hard to make a 50mm lens that is fast and most deliver extremely poor image quality. The Canon 50mm 1.4 actually beat out every other 50mm lens on the market at f/2, delivering what I would consider the fastest 50mm aperture with an average resolution of 2400 LPPH or more (which is the minimum resolution I consider acceptable), but it was disappointing to see such a poor focusing mechanism and such poor coatings because it wasn't updated for an extremely long time.


Just because you don't personally use or like a lens doesn't make it "gimmicky". 

The original 50/1.0 lens, which you call "horrible", was almost unique in its time and still makes beautiful photos at f/1.0:  http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263 (http://www.jessicaclaire.net/index.cfm/postID/263)

The 50/2.5 macro is for any purpose you want to use it, not just macro.  It's cheap and sharp, though it has the old buzzy AF motor.  Cheap + sharp + 1:2 macro = a good combination.

The 40/2.8 is a wonderful pancake lens and is a cheap way of shrinking your big dslr and still having really sharp photos.  Brilliant and a joy to use.  Cheap + sharp + very small = a good combination

You're right, the 50/1.8 is "just" a super cheap lens to promote entry level photography with primes.  But wait, that's a good thing.  What's wrong with that?  That actually makes some people very happy.

The "horrible" 50/1.2L which you compare to a plastic Lensbaby has been used for a tremendous amount of professional work.  It is good enough for David Burnett, Sebastiao Salgado and Mario Sorrenti, but not good enough for you?  And this guy seems to make decent photos with it:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petezelewski/) ... not bad for using what you say is "one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer period."

- The 50/1.0 has more spherical aberration and was discontinued for a reason. I don't think those photos you used as examples look good because you can see the poor image quality of the lens in most of them.

- There is nothing special about the glass in the 50mm Macro The only reason people buy this lens is because of the number on the price tag. 

- I own the 40mm STM, there is nothing special about the glass in it, it is a lens that is sold for something other than it's image quality. Which is why it is a niche lens.

- There's nothing wrong with the 50mm 1.8 being cheap, the problem is Canon ignoring pros.

- The 50mm f/1.2 can be used to make excellent photos if you know all of it's weaknesses and compensate for them. It has good center resolution, good color and good contrast. BUT here is what is really annoying. It makes good photos DESPITE these flaws, not because of them. Nobody sits around saying "man I wish this lens had less sharpness, and really bright purple fringing that makes hair look like it's made of alien tentacles" or "this photo could have been better if the focus was slower".

Quote
As for the Canon 50mm f/1.4 having more resolution at f/2 than any other 50mm lens in the world released prior to 2013 ... not exactly.  That would easily have been the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux:  http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout)

In the Lensrentals "Great 50mm Shootout", you'll note that both Canon 50/1.4 and 50/1.2L scored higher in resolution than any of the 50's from Nikon, Sigma or Zeiss.  That's pretty good for lenses you consider gimmicky or not good.  Leica scored higher, but Leica is in a much higher price category.

You're making the mistake of looking at center resolution. Center resolution is about as relevant to comparing resolution as income on Fridays is to comparing income. That's not how you compare overall performance.

The Canon 50mm f/1.4 has the highest average resolution of any 50mm lens in that test, 640 at f/2.0 average resolution. The Leica lenses do show a higher resolution, but they were tested on a camera without an anti aliasing filter, the Leica M9. When those same lenses are mounted on a 5D II, the Canon bests the Leica F/2 and equals the Leica f/1.4 depending more on copy variation than anyting.

So yes the Canon 50mm f/1.4 has the best f/2 resolution of any 50mm lens, prior to the 58mm Nikon and the 55mm Zeiss, and more importantly had the fastest aperture of any 50mm focal length lens with a minimum of around 2400 lpph average resolution.



Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 08, 2014, 07:34:13 PM
It's also annoying to see people come in here and talk about how the 50mm f/1.2 delivers such a unique look. The 50mm f/1.2 doesn't actually deliver f/1.2 on a digital sensor because at apertures that are that high, the light actually has such a high angle of incidence (that is what high aperture is allowing light at a higher angle of incidence into the lens), that the majority of the addition light from the faster aperture is absorbed or bounces off the walls of each pixel. That's why Canon has to boost ISO in the background on every lens that's faster than f/2.8. You can see almost a stop more noise at f/1.4 1/200th than f/2.8 1/50th. The bokeh at f/1.2 looks mostly like the bokeh at f/1.4 because the extra light doesn't make it to the pixels on a digital camera, only on film.

Here's the difference the "unique look" of f/1.2 makes to the bokeh:

f/1.4
(http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13965847/img/Picture-Box/f14.jpg)

f/1.2
(http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/13965848/img/Picture-Box/f12.jpg)
Here is the difference between a Zeiss Otus 50mm and a Canon 50mm @ f/1.4:

(http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12275850/img/Picture-Box/zeiss55.jpg)

I think most people can figure out which is more noticeable without looking twice.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 08, 2014, 08:35:26 PM
It's also annoying to see people come in here and talk about how the 50mm f/1.2 delivers such a unique look. The 50mm f/1.2 doesn't actually deliver f/1.2 on a digital sensor because at apertures that are that high, the light actually has such a high angle of incidence (that is what high aperture is allowing light at a higher angle of incidence into the lens), that the majority of the addition light from the faster aperture is absorbed or bounces off the walls of each pixel. That's why Canon has to boost ISO in the background on every lens that's faster than f/2.8. You can see almost a stop more noise at f/1.4 1/200th than f/2.8 1/50th. The bokeh at f/1.2 looks mostly like the bokeh at f/1.4 because the extra light doesn't make it to the pixels on a digital camera, only on film.

Here's the difference the "unique look" of f/1.2 makes to the bokeh:
....

Here is the difference between a Zeiss Otus 50mm and a Canon 50mm @ f/1.4:

(http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12275850/img/Picture-Box/zeiss55.jpg)

I think most people can figure out which is more noticeable without looking twice.

The point about the 50/1.2L not delivering f/1.2 on a digital sensor is not really relevant because the lens delivers a lovely look anyway, no matter how you measure the light at f/1.2.

Sure, there's little difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4, but that's NOT the unique look that photographers talk about.  The lens draws beautifully at various apertures.  The lens is especially beautiful when stopped down a bit.  Notice that most of the photos by Peter Zelewski (linked above) are at f/2.  Many photographers appreciate the lens for the especially lovely look it delivers stopped down 1 or 2 or 3 stops, and use f/1.2 only for limited purposes, if at all.  It's not that f/1.2 is unusable, but that the DOF is insufficient for their purposes.

By the way, how do you know that the photo on the right is from the Canon 50/1.4?  It sure does look like it, but I don't know that Zeiss identified it in their samples.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: that1guyy on January 08, 2014, 09:04:30 PM
Wonderful news! Let's wait for some time when tests are performed and price drops a bit :) I really expect that Sigma 50 mm 1.4 will be much better than (20 years!!!! old) Canon 50 mm 1.4. I am really disappointed regarding Canon's approach to lenses. Canon's new lenses are superb quality (e.g. 24-70), however, their price tag is too high for average customers. From another side, Sigma & Tamron is able to manufacture and offer to customers PRO line lenses, which are really affordable.

I am really surprised that Canon was sleeping for 20 years and has not updated its 50 mm 1.4. Despite the fact tah Sigma's equivalent is 2x expensive I will sell my Canon 50 mm 1.4 and will by Sigma. Canon is starting to loose quite significant market to Sigma and Tamron. Canon users are not Apple users, they think! Accordingly, I would expect that many people will by Sigma 50 1.4, which is based on new technology, excells Canon, quality is Similar to Zeiss (I really expect that :D ) but price is affordable.

Canon should be ashamed to offer (in the future) non-L 50 mm 1.8 IS....

I am a happy user of both Sigma and Tamron lenses, and am using a Macbook pro to write this reply. I think quite a lot before buying things.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 08, 2014, 09:15:59 PM
....
So yes the Canon 50mm f/1.4 has the best f/2 resolution of any 50mm lens, prior to the 58mm Nikon and the 55mm Zeiss, and more importantly had the fastest aperture of any 50mm focal length lens with a minimum of around 2400 lpph average resolution.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the current 50/1.2L having "extreme flaws" or being a "special purpose lens" or being "one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer".  Goodness, it beat Nikon, Zeiss and Sigma (all also good performers) in the LensRentals 50mm Shootout in 2012.

The lens I referred to as highest resolving before 2013 is the 50/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH introduced in 2004.  It can't be mounted on a 5DII.  Nor can the 50/2 Summicron-M.  So  I don't know where you're getting this idea that they don't perform as well when mounted on a 5DII — that can't even be done.  Back in the film era, Photodo.com tested the current 50/2 Summicron-M and the current Canon 50/1.4 and found the Leica 50/2 was sharper at f/2 through f/8, although the difference was slight by f/4.  (By the time the current Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH was introduced, they had stopped testing.)
http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-SummicronM-50mm-f20-874 (http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-SummicronM-50mm-f20-874)
http://www.photodo.com/lens/Canon-EF-50mm-f14-USM-22 (http://www.photodo.com/lens/Canon-EF-50mm-f14-USM-22)
You can't blame the AA filter on that.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: privatebydesign on January 08, 2014, 09:41:02 PM

- The 50/1.0 has more spherical aberration and was discontinued for a reason. I don't think those photos you used as examples look good because you can see the poor image quality of the lens in most of them.


Yes it was discontinued for a reason, and that had nothing to do with the aberrations, it was, I vaguely recall, because of the lead content in some of the glass, just like the 200 f1.8. Don't think for one second Canon couldn't make a 50 f1 with a completely different character. Canon, so the rumour mill said before the gossip days of the internet, are supposed to have lost money on every 200 f1.8 and 50 f1.0 they made.

But you clearly are not one to let facts get in the way of your opinion.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 08, 2014, 09:54:20 PM
If you can't get sharp photos with a 1.2L, then YOUR technique is not right for this lens.

That L lens is lovely but has limitations that many on this thread want nothing to do with -- it is not the sharpest lens and has rather inconsistent focusing (and not just at wide apertures), as has been spoken to numerous times on this thread. 

But implying we are using it wrong is probably not the kindest thing to say.

Maybe you could put things a bit more softly:  "Perhaps another 50mm lens is a better choice for some of us."

It certainly is for me. 

- A

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: skybraun on January 08, 2014, 11:05:23 PM
When do you guys think we will see reviews and and price announcement?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: wickidwombat on January 08, 2014, 11:36:27 PM
All the rumors are pointing to Canon releasing a 50mm f/1.8 IS to replace the current 50mm f/1.4. I have no interest in image stabalization at the 50mm focal length so I am inclined to go with the Sigma and if it is as good as the Sigma 35mm, it may have better IQ than the new Canon 50mm.

I think Sigma scored a home run with this lens

for this lens i'm the opposite, i'm gonna wait for the canon IS version and compare if the IQ is close i would more likely take the IS lens at 1.8 over the non is 1.4
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 08, 2014, 11:36:55 PM
When do you guys think we will see reviews and and price announcement?

I have only seen one first impressions / hands-on sort of posts, like this:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/ (http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/)

http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/ (http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5)
(...photos 6 and 7 are of it as well)

The first is clearly the best read to date.  Those guys, like DPReview, get lenses early for eval, so they'll be following up soon.

I haven't seen price yet.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 08, 2014, 11:38:32 PM
for this lens i'm the opposite, i'm gonna wait for the canon IS version and compare if the IQ is close i would more likely take the IS lens at 1.8 over the non is 1.4

+1
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: skybraun on January 08, 2014, 11:59:15 PM
When do you guys think we will see reviews and and price announcement?

I have only seen one first impressions / hands-on sort of posts, like this:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/ (http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/)

http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/ (http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5)
(...photos 6 and 7 are of it as well)

The first is clearly the best read to date.  Those guys, like DPReview, get lenses early for eval, so they'll be following up soon.

I haven't seen price yet.

- A

Thank you for the links!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 09, 2014, 12:26:13 AM
....
So yes the Canon 50mm f/1.4 has the best f/2 resolution of any 50mm lens, prior to the 58mm Nikon and the 55mm Zeiss, and more importantly had the fastest aperture of any 50mm focal length lens with a minimum of around 2400 lpph average resolution.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the current 50/1.2L having "extreme flaws" or being a "special purpose lens" or being "one of the worst lenses made by any manufacturer".  Goodness, it beat Nikon, Zeiss and Sigma (all also good performers) in the LensRentals 50mm Shootout in 2012.

Here's the thing. Up until 2013 50mm lenses were made almost exclusively with the double gauss design. There is no such thing as a good double gauss fast lens. They are all horrible wide open. And I don't mean horrible in the sense of "wow this lens is 3.2153% worse than this other lens it's horrible".

I mean to say that double gauss f/1.4 or faster lenses have image quality that is so incredibly bad that it's off the scale.

Compared to 85mm or 35mm primes @ f/1.4 double gauss normal lenses have:

10 times less spacial resolution
5 times more chromatic aberration
4 times more purple fringing
4 times as much hazing

How do you make something 5-10 TIMES worse in every metric and have it considered anything but incredibly terrible? You can't. It's not a subjective matter that 50mm lenses are horrible, and I think you an other photographers make the mistake of thinking that just because you can take good photos with a lens that has a lot of bokeh that it's a good lens. For every good photo taken with these lenses there are thousands that are mushy, burry and full of artifacts and lacking contrast.
 
50mm lenses other than the Otus are objectively terrible. It's a fact and it's not limited to the 50mm f/1.2, the f/1.2 is just a lens that happens to add insult to injury, it's a lens that takes an already weak segment and says "let's compromise this even more". Again there is very little to advantage to f/1.2 over f/1.4 due to the way digital sensors absorb light from fast lenses, you certainly can't really see a major difference in bokeh as the samples on the last page showed, so basically the 50mm L means that Canon ignored making a 50mm f/1.4 L that had good contrast color and bokeh. That is a tragedy.

A double gauss lens has no business having a compromised design.


Quote
The lens I referred to as highest resolving before 2013 is the 50/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH introduced in 2004.  It can't be mounted on a 5DII.  Nor can the 50/2 Summicron-M.  So  I don't know where you're getting this idea that they don't perform as well when mounted on a 5DII — that can't even be done.  Back in the film era, Photodo.com tested the current 50/2 Summicron-M and the current Canon 50/1.4 and found the Leica 50/2 was sharper at f/2 through f/8, although the difference was slight by f/4.  (By the time the current Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH was introduced, they had stopped testing.)
http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-SummicronM-50mm-f20-874 (http://www.photodo.com/lens/Leica-SummicronM-50mm-f20-874)
http://www.photodo.com/lens/Canon-EF-50mm-f14-USM-22 (http://www.photodo.com/lens/Canon-EF-50mm-f14-USM-22)
You can't blame the AA filter on that.

I actually thought we were talking about Leica R lenses which are a different design and can be adapted to Canon. The shorter focus distance of the rangefinder gives the M design more room for corrective elements. Photozone tested the Leica 50mm R f/1.4 using the Leica R to Canon adapter and found it to be slightly inferior to the 50mm f/1.4, having an MTF score 100 lower in the center and 200 lower at the borders @ f/2.0, although wide open the Leica is better:

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/206-leica-summilux-r-50mm-f14-via-adapter-on-canon-eos-review--test-report?start=1 (http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/206-leica-summilux-r-50mm-f14-via-adapter-on-canon-eos-review--test-report?start=1)

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/159-canon-ef-50mm-f14-usm-test-report--review?start=1 (http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/159-canon-ef-50mm-f14-usm-test-report--review?start=1)

Basically all double gauss design 50mm lenses are horrible. I've personally owned pretty much every single one I could get my hands on in a quest to find one with anything but terrible image quality wide open.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Ricku on January 09, 2014, 01:27:20 AM
Just curious. Why would someone pick a 50mm f/1.8 with IS over a 50mm f/1.4 (no IS)? Or vice versa.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 09, 2014, 02:03:35 AM
Just curious. Why would someone pick a 50mm f/1.8 with IS over a 50mm f/1.4 (no IS)? Or vice versa.

1.4 for shallower DOF, 1.8 IS for low light handheld photography and smaller size + weight.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 09, 2014, 02:23:12 AM
I mean to say that double gauss f/1.4 or faster lenses have image quality that is so incredibly bad that it's off the scale.

Compared to 85mm or 35mm primes @ f/1.4 double gauss normal lenses have:

10 times less spacial resolution
5 times more chromatic aberration
4 times more purple fringing
4 times as much hazing

How do you make something 5-10 TIMES worse in every metric and have it considered anything but incredibly terrible? You can't. It's not a subjective matter that 50mm lenses are horrible, and I think you an other photographers make the mistake of thinking that just because you can take good photos with a lens that has a lot of bokeh that it's a good lens. For every good photo taken with these lenses there are thousands that are mushy, burry and full of artifacts and lacking contrast.
 
50mm lenses other than the Otus are objectively terrible. It's a fact and it's not limited to the 50mm f/1.2, the f/1.2 is just a lens that happens to add insult to injury, it's a lens that takes an already weak segment and says "let's compromise this even more". Again there is very little to advantage to f/1.2 over f/1.4 due to the way digital sensors absorb light from fast lenses, you certainly can't really see a major difference in bokeh as the samples on the last page showed, so basically the 50mm L means that Canon ignored making a 50mm f/1.4 L that had good contrast color and bokeh. That is a tragedy.

Nevertheless, ...


Even though you say it's a fact that 50mm lenses are "horrible", it's also fact that many photographers buy, use, enjoy and often prefer 50mm lenses.  That says the photograph is what matters, not the metrics.

Even though a lens may be "just right" for some photographers, it won't & can't please everyone.  A manufacturer can't make a lens that pleases everyone, or the variety of lenses that would be needed to please everyone.  So whatever they make, someone will be unhappy that their personal goals for a new lens weren't met.

It appears that Nikon designed their new 58/1.4 with similar goals — it offers a very nice look, similar to the 50/1.2L based on what I've seen online.  It's not surprising that Ming Thein recently wrote about the Nikon 58/1.4:  "No intention of buying one since the demos I tried in Japan a couple of weeks ago were pretty soft and ‘glowy’ at f1.4 ..."  It's not his kind of lens — so he bought the Otus instead.

With the 50/1.2L Canon delivered a lens that some photographers very much wanted and that measured very well in the 50mm ecosystem of its time.  It doesn't please everyone, but it pleases some photographers very much.  The fact that the Otus raises the bar is great, but not so relevant for the many photographers who are simply not interested in a $4k manual focus non-weather-sealed lens, even one as good as that. 

Now we eagerly wait to see what Sigma brings to the table ...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 09, 2014, 03:46:14 AM
Just curious. Why would someone pick a 50mm f/1.8 with IS over a 50mm f/1.4 (no IS)? Or vice versa.

Many, many threads have weighed the answer to that question.   I'll take a crack at it here, but understand that the physics majors and the working pros on this thread probably see this argument quite differently.  :D

Why Slower with IS is better


With some exceptions, a narrower max aperture lens like a F/1.8 or F/2 should be smaller and lighter than a F/1.4 lens.  That absolutely will be the case with Canon's 50 F/whatever IS -- expect it to be about as big as the recently 35mm F/2 IS, as the non-L IS refreshes seem to be paired housing/size-wise.

For comparison's sake, the new Sigma F/1.4's dimensions are very close to the Canon 24-70 F/4 zoom when closed/at 24mm:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Product-Images.aspx?Lens=823&LensComp2=0&LensComp=824 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Product-Images.aspx?Lens=823&LensComp2=0&LensComp=824)
(mouseover the 'Select View' below the pictures and you can make the hoods disappear for a truer read on size.)

Probably more important for the shooters on this forum, presuming (for the sake of example) it's a 4-stop IS system, provided the subject is not moving, you have a lens that is 3-ish stops better for handholding in low light.  That advantage can be used a few different ways:


I shoot a fair amount in low-light, handheld, and without a flash.  So IS is a big help for me.

Why Faster without IS is better


You can generate a smaller DOF, which is awesome in some compositions.

If you have quickly moving subjects (and you aren't gunning for a blurry one), the upside of IS effectively lost.  IS helps with longer shutters and unsteady hands, but it can't freeze (for example) a five year old with happy feet.  So if your subject is moving, take the aperture over the IS.

Some folks really rave about the color and draw of the really big F/1.4, F/1.2 and F/1.0 lenses.  Quite simply, you are letting more of the light in and it shows.  Folks often claim such large aperture work has a 'magical' feel or tone to it.  On my F/1.4, when I shoot it wide open, I note richer colors + healthy vignetting on my FF rig that simply looks more memorable at first glance.  You can't/shouldn't shoot wide open all the time, but it's a killer look for some shots.

So there are two schools on this.  There are a good (I'd guess) half the people in this forum that would take the speed of the F/1.4 without IS at this focal length.  For what I shoot, I wouldn't -- I'd probably take the IS.

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: GMCPhotographics on January 09, 2014, 04:30:13 AM
If you can't get sharp photos with a 1.2L, then YOUR technique is not right for this lens.

That L lens is lovely but has limitations that many on this thread want nothing to do with -- it is not the sharpest lens and has rather inconsistent focusing (and not just at wide apertures), as has been spoken to numerous times on this thread. 

But implying we are using it wrong is probably not the kindest thing to say.

Maybe you could put things a bit more softly:  "Perhaps another 50mm lens is a better choice for some of us."

It certainly is for me. 

- A

I agree, I have all of the Canon fast primes from the 24IIL up to the 135L and I have to say that the 50 f1.2L is the weakest and softest performer in terms of optics of all the primes. Its a shame but true, its a good lens but not a great one. It pales next to the 85mm f1.2 II L and 35mm f1.4 L in just about every respect. But sadly, it's still the best performing 50mm available on the Canon ef mount when shooting wide open. I'm just waiting for a 50mm f1.2 II L to come along and rock my world....
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 09, 2014, 05:52:52 AM
When do you guys think we will see reviews and and price announcement?

I have only seen one first impressions / hands-on sort of posts, like this:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/ (http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/)

http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/ (http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5)
(...photos 6 and 7 are of it as well)

The first is clearly the best read to date.  Those guys, like DPReview, get lenses early for eval, so they'll be following up soon.

I haven't seen price yet.

- A

Thank you for the links!

+1
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Ricku on January 09, 2014, 06:44:40 AM
Just curious. Why would someone pick a 50mm f/1.8 with IS over a 50mm f/1.4 (no IS)? Or vice versa.

Many, many threads have weighed the answer to that question.   I'll take a crack at it here, but understand that the physics majors and the working pros on this thread probably see this argument quite differently.  :D

Why Slower with IS is better


With some exceptions, a narrower max aperture lens like a F/1.8 or F/2 should be smaller and lighter than a F/1.4 lens.  That absolutely will be the case with Canon's 50 F/whatever IS -- expect it to be about as big as the recently 35mm F/2 IS, as the non-L IS refreshes seem to be paired housing/size-wise.

For comparison's sake, the new Sigma F/1.4's dimensions are very close to the Canon 24-70 F/4 zoom when closed/at 24mm:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Product-Images.aspx?Lens=823&LensComp2=0&LensComp=824 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Product-Images.aspx?Lens=823&LensComp2=0&LensComp=824)
(mouseover the 'Select View' below the pictures and you can make the hoods disappear for a truer read on size.)

Probably more important for the shooters on this forum, presuming (for the sake of example) it's a 4-stop IS system, provided the subject is not moving, you have a lens that is 3-ish stops better for handholding in low light.  That advantage can be used a few different ways:

  • For a given shot that the non-IS lens would make (assuming it's not right at F/1.4), you can get the same shot while still moving your ISO back down to a more reasonable level, and minimize noise.
  • Or, you can stop down the lens to gain sharper image and/or more working DOF.  Keep in mind that an F/1.4 non-IS lens in a dimly lit room may have to be slammed fully open to net a low-light shot without cranking the ISO too high, and that can be a fairly limiting DOF to work with, plus no lens is anywhere near being sharp corner to corner at F/1.4.

I shoot a fair amount in low-light, handheld, and without a flash.  So IS is a big help for me.

Why Faster without IS is better


You can generate a smaller DOF, which is awesome in some compositions.

If you have quickly moving subjects (and you aren't gunning for a blurry one), the upside of IS effectively lost.  IS helps with longer shutters and unsteady hands, but it can't freeze (for example) a five year old with happy feet.  So if your subject is moving, take the aperture over the IS.

Some folks really rave about the color and draw of the really big F/1.4, F/1.2 and F/1.0 lenses.  Quite simply, you are letting more of the light in and it shows.  Folks often claim such large aperture work has a 'magical' feel or tone to it.  On my F/1.4, when I shoot it wide open, I note richer colors + healthy vignetting on my FF rig that simply looks more memorable at first glance.  You can't/shouldn't shoot wide open all the time, but it's a killer look for some shots.

So there are two schools on this.  There are a good (I'd guess) half the people in this forum that would take the speed of the F/1.4 without IS at this focal length.  For what I shoot, I wouldn't -- I'd probably take the IS.

- A
Thanks for the answer. It all makes sense! :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 09, 2014, 07:33:36 AM
I agree, I have all of the Canon fast primes from the 24IIL up to the 135L and I have to say that the 50 f1.2L is the weakest and softest performer in terms of optics of all the primes. Its a shame but true, its a good lens but not a great one. It pales next to the 85mm f1.2 II L and 35mm f1.4 L in just about every respect. But sadly, it's still the best performing 50mm available on the Canon ef mount when shooting wide open. I'm just waiting for a 50mm f1.2 II L to come along and rock my world....
+1 - Like you, I have owned all of them (and still own most of them), and the 50L is the weakest of the L primes, and that's why I sold mine a few months ago.  I soon realized that for it's purposes (portraits at f/1.2-2) and general shooting at f/8-f/16, it's a great lens.  the 24-70 f/2.8 II is sharper and performs better in tests, but when I look at the final image, the 50L is just better in my eyes, and f/2.8 is a poor substitute for f/2 or larger apertures when it comes to portraits.  I'm mighty interested in the Sigma and a future 50L II, but for now, I've realized that the 50L gives me great results even if it's not as great as its siblings.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 09, 2014, 07:38:42 AM
When do you guys think we will see reviews and and price announcement?

I have only seen one first impressions / hands-on sort of posts, like this:

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/ (http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/08/first-impressions-sigma-50mm-f1-4-ii/)

http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/ (http://www.tested.com/tech/photography/459686-ces-2014-impressions-sigmas-new-50mm-f14-lens/)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/09/ces-2014-sigma-stand-report/5)
(...photos 6 and 7 are of it as well)

The first is clearly the best read to date.  Those guys, like DPReview, get lenses early for eval, so they'll be following up soon.

I haven't seen price yet.

- A

Good to know that the weight is going to be around 470g. It's going to be definitely lighter than the 35A (670g), in spite of 77 vs 67mm filter threads.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: zlatko on January 09, 2014, 09:49:47 AM
Thanks for the answer. It all makes sense! :)
Good answer, I agree.  I would add that:

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: sagittariansrock on January 09, 2014, 10:22:56 AM
Just curious. Why would someone pick a 50mm f/1.8 with IS over a 50mm f/1.4 (no IS)? Or vice versa.

1.4 for shallower DOF, 1.8 IS for low light handheld photography and smaller size + weight.

In both cases, the lenses need to be perfectly usable at their maximum aperture. The current 1.4 (at least my copy) wasn't.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 09, 2014, 10:49:59 AM
I mean to say that double gauss f/1.4 or faster lenses have image quality that is so incredibly bad that it's off the scale.

Compared to 85mm or 35mm primes @ f/1.4 double gauss normal lenses have:

10 times less spacial resolution
5 times more chromatic aberration
4 times more purple fringing
4 times as much hazing

Nevertheless, ...

  • As of 2012, the 50/1.2L tested better for resolution than any 50mm from Nikon, Zeiss or Sigma on LensRentals' shootout.  That's a success. 
  • The 50/1.2L stopped down delivers a wonderful look that is not accounted for in those tests but that is known to photographers.  The advantage of the lens is not the slight extra bit of light going from f/1.4 to f/1.2 — this is less important than ever in the digital era.  And it's not the bokeh at f/1.2 — that's not a useful aperture for a lot of what a 50mm is used for.  Instead, the advantage is the overall look, especially for portraits, and especially stopped down 1, 2 or 3 stops.  That look is why some photographers describe it as their favorite lens.  In that regard too, it's a success. 

Even though you say it's a fact that 50mm lenses are "horrible", it's also fact that many photographers buy, use, enjoy and often prefer 50mm lenses.  That says the photograph is what matters, not the metrics.

Even though a lens may be "just right" for some photographers, it won't & can't please everyone.  A manufacturer can't make a lens that pleases everyone, or the variety of lenses that would be needed to please everyone.  So whatever they make, someone will be unhappy that their personal goals for a new lens weren't met.

It appears that Nikon designed their new 58/1.4 with similar goals — it offers a very nice look, similar to the 50/1.2L based on what I've seen online.  It's not surprising that Ming Thein recently wrote about the Nikon 58/1.4:  "No intention of buying one since the demos I tried in Japan a couple of weeks ago were pretty soft and ‘glowy’ at f1.4 ..."  It's not his kind of lens — so he bought the Otus instead.

With the 50/1.2L Canon delivered a lens that some photographers very much wanted and that measured very well in the 50mm ecosystem of its time.  It doesn't please everyone, but it pleases some photographers very much.  The fact that the Otus raises the bar is great, but not so relevant for the many photographers who are simply not interested in a $4k manual focus non-weather-sealed lens, even one as good as that. 

Now we eagerly wait to see what Sigma brings to the table ...

You do have a meaningful point here, basically:

Canon 50mm f/1.2 @ f/1.2

Center Resolution: 4/10 
Average Resolution: 0/10
Lack of Chromatic Aberration: 3/10
Lack of Purple Fringing: 3/10
Lack of Glowiness/Hazing: 2/10
Bokeh Transition Quality: 8/10
Lack of Bokeh Artifacts: 10/10
Contrast & Color: 10/10
Lack of Onion Bokeh: 8/10
Lack of Ugly Distortion: 8/10

The Canon f/1.2 L is one of the worst lenses in a few categories, and one of the best in others. Personally I like a well balanced lens.

I actually switched from using a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L II, to a Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 VC because of this idea of balance because it has much better bokeh transitions, lacks bokeh artifacts, and has much better color and contrast than the Canon II, which is 3 times more expensive. Which to most people would be a hugely sacrilegious switch, considering the advantages in resolution and the fact that the Canon is an APO lens, which is mind blowing. But after using both the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 I, and II, and the Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 vc, I stuck with the Tamron. The Canon 24-70mm II just has a look that is way too clinical, it makes things look ugly and lacks color and contrast, and the bokeh of the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 I just looks  busy. I also tried the Nikon 24-70mm 2.8G and it was actually between the Tamron and the Canon I 24-70mm in almost every way. The Nikon had some business in the background but was a little better controlled than the Canon.

Simply put the Tamron 24-70mm VC takes the best all around photos out of any of the Canon or Nikon compatible 24-70mm f/2.8 lenses (You can also adapt Nikon lenses to Canon and manual focus). Go figure, though I still keep a spare in case I run into onion bokeh issues, which is the lenses only major flaw.

I also don't like the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 because it takes too much away from other categories to achieve it's resolution. After owning the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 (the best one I found out of several copies) I sold it and went back to the Canon 35mm f/1.4, because it has much less purple fringing, lacks that weird mustache distortion, and has slightly nicer bokeh.

I used to be very obsessed with resolution, but experience has taught me that a well balanced lens takes better photos.

The Canon 50mm f/1.2 is not a well balanced lens though. At resolutions above 1024 pixels on the short side, it really shows a lack of detail, and even at resolutions below that you have to basically walk on eggshells to get it to create a sharp image wide open. There is no room for error. It also has a painfully high level of purple fringing.

At f/1.4 I like the Canon 1.2 over the 1.4 though because the 1.4 has very busy bokeh which is very noticeable at that aperture, even though the 1.4 has more resolution at that aperture. However I think that the Sigma 1.4 is better than either Canon at 1.4. It basically combines the strengths of both Canon lenses into one, and you can't beat that. The Nikon 58mm is basically a lot like the Sigma 1.4 wide open, except the Nikon is super sharp. It's a shame then that the other main difference is that it has so much purple fringing.

In conclusion, excluding the Otus due to price:

Canon 1.4 @ f/2.0 = best
Sigma 1.4 @ f/1.4 = best
Nikon 58mm 1.4 @ f/1.4 = too much purple fringing
Canon 1.2 @ f/1.4 (or f/1.2) = Capable of great images in the right hands but only up to web sized wide open, due to extreme softness.

Also @ f/1.4 Zeiss 50mm Sumi = Sigma 50mm = Nikon 50mm G f/1.4 (for the most part they deliver basically the same images)

I wouldn't shoot with any 50mm other than the Otus wide open though as the image quality of the double gauss design wide open is just really unacceptable.

If Sigma is releasing a new 50mm though that means that they have probably made huge improvements in image quality. Lets just hope there are no downsides.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 09, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
...
50mm lenses other than the Otus are objectively terrible. It's a fact and it's not limited to the 50mm f/1.2, the f/1.2 is just a lens that happens to add insult to injury, it's a lens that takes an already weak segment and says "let's compromise this even more". Again there is very little to advantage to f/1.2 over f/1.4 due to the way digital sensors absorb light from fast lenses, you certainly can't really see a major difference in bokeh as the samples on the last page showed, so basically the 50mm L means that Canon ignored making a 50mm f/1.4 L that had good contrast color and bokeh. That is a tragedy.
...

So I don't know much about what is or isn't a double gauss design but what I do know that is the Otus is significantly different to other 50mm lenses by it being long rather than short.

If the Sigma is also a long lens then wouldn't that suggest that it too is not a double-gauss design?

The Zeiss Otus is nearly 10 inches long, which seems to be what you need to avoid the double gauss design. The new Sigma is an inch longer than the last one, at 4 inches so I highly doubt that it will be any other design, but we don't know for sure.

However, and this is important, the new Sigma has 50% more elements than any double gauss design lens ever made, and it is an inch longer than any double gauss normal lens I am aware of. What this means is that the lens has more corrective elements and more room to do correction than any other full frame normal lens on the planet. If this lens is not the best non-otus normal lens available, then I would be shocked. Sigma obviously is doing something very special with the design of this lens and that alone indicates that it must be good.

The question is really going to be: does it have any weird drawbacks? Will the bokeh transitions be smooth? Will it have crazy CA or PF? etc.

All I know is that i want to order this lens and test it now.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 09, 2014, 01:20:09 PM
Just curious. Why would someone pick a 50mm f/1.8 with IS over a 50mm f/1.4 (no IS)? Or vice versa.

1.4 for shallower DOF, 1.8 IS for low light handheld photography and smaller size + weight.

In both cases, the lenses need to be perfectly usable at their maximum aperture. The current 1.4 (at least my copy) wasn't.

The current SIGMA 1.4 at f/1.4, 1/60sec, iso 1600, handheld  ::).
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on January 09, 2014, 01:44:15 PM

In both cases, the lenses need to be perfectly usable at their maximum aperture. The current 1.4 (at least my copy) wasn't.

The current 1.4 at f/1.4, 1/60sec, iso 1600, handheld  ::).

Thanks for sharing that.  I think the wildcard in any assessment of the Canon F/1.2L and F/1.4 is copy to copy variation.  My 50 F/1.4 @ 1.4 is solid in the center but is problematic away from it.  I relegate most shots to F/2 or narrower because of this.

Roger at LR has posted at length about the scatter seen in his stable of lenses.  Some copies are stellar while others are weak. 

Thankfully, the newer Canon non-L IS refreshes have really tightened up the performance to where most new lenses are loosely equivalent in performance.   Hopefully this new Sigma will also have a small copy to copy variation as well.

- A


Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 09, 2014, 03:43:21 PM

In both cases, the lenses need to be perfectly usable at their maximum aperture. The current 1.4 (at least my copy) wasn't.

The current 1.4 at f/1.4, 1/60sec, iso 1600, handheld  ::).

Thanks for sharing that.  I think the wildcard in any assessment of the Canon F/1.2L and F/1.4 is copy to copy variation.  My 50 F/1.4 @ 1.4 is solid in the center but is problematic away from it.  I relegate most shots to F/2 or narrower because of this.

Roger at LR has posted at length about the scatter seen in his stable of lenses.  Some copies are stellar while others are weak. 

Thankfully, the newer Canon non-L IS refreshes have really tightened up the performance to where most new lenses are loosely equivalent in performance.   Hopefully this new Sigma will also have a small copy to copy variation as well.

- A

Just to be sure, that image I posted was made with the Sigma 1.4 ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: skybraun on January 09, 2014, 05:18:10 PM
Bought my EF 50mm 1.4 USM on January 2nd 2014 and returned it today in anticipation of this lens. Thank god it was still within the return policy. B&H is great sometimes. Can anyone give a good prediction on when this lens will be available for pre-order? I hope it gets released within a month or two. I could be totally wrong but I hope I'm not!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: GMCPhotographics on January 09, 2014, 07:05:16 PM
I agree, I have all of the Canon fast primes from the 24IIL up to the 135L and I have to say that the 50 f1.2L is the weakest and softest performer in terms of optics of all the primes. Its a shame but true, its a good lens but not a great one. It pales next to the 85mm f1.2 II L and 35mm f1.4 L in just about every respect. But sadly, it's still the best performing 50mm available on the Canon ef mount when shooting wide open. I'm just waiting for a 50mm f1.2 II L to come along and rock my world....
+1 - Like you, I have owned all of them (and still own most of them), and the 50L is the weakest of the L primes, and that's why I sold mine a few months ago.  I soon realized that for it's purposes (portraits at f/1.2-2) and general shooting at f/8-f/16, it's a great lens.  the 24-70 f/2.8 II is sharper and performs better in tests, but when I look at the final image, the 50L is just better in my eyes, and f/2.8 is a poor substitute for f/2 or larger apertures when it comes to portraits.  I'm mighty interested in the Sigma and a future 50L II, but for now, I've realized that the 50L gives me great results even if it's not as great as its siblings.

Yup and as I've said so many time before...sharpness is just one measurable component of a lens, it shouldn't  be a deciding factor, but an added bonus. Unfortunately, so many photographers choose optics purely based on sharpness reviews. The 50L really does offer a nice view on the world and offers a great look to the final images. Just a little softer than other L's as it struts it's stuff. I'm more of a 35/85 combo guy. Recently I did a few portraits at a conference using my 24IIL and 50L and fell in love with that combo all over. 
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Dylan777 on January 10, 2014, 01:05:13 AM
I mean to say that double gauss f/1.4 or faster lenses have image quality that is so incredibly bad that it's off the scale.

Compared to 85mm or 35mm primes @ f/1.4 double gauss normal lenses have:

10 times less spacial resolution
5 times more chromatic aberration
4 times more purple fringing
4 times as much hazing

Nevertheless, ...

  • As of 2012, the 50/1.2L tested better for resolution than any 50mm from Nikon, Zeiss or Sigma on LensRentals' shootout.  That's a success. 
  • The 50/1.2L stopped down delivers a wonderful look that is not accounted for in those tests but that is known to photographers.  The advantage of the lens is not the slight extra bit of light going from f/1.4 to f/1.2 — this is less important than ever in the digital era.  And it's not the bokeh at f/1.2 — that's not a useful aperture for a lot of what a 50mm is used for.  Instead, the advantage is the overall look, especially for portraits, and especially stopped down 1, 2 or 3 stops.  That look is why some photographers describe it as their favorite lens.  In that regard too, it's a success. 

Even though you say it's a fact that 50mm lenses are "horrible", it's also fact that many photographers buy, use, enjoy and often prefer 50mm lenses.  That says the photograph is what matters, not the metrics.

Even though a lens may be "just right" for some photographers, it won't & can't please everyone.  A manufacturer can't make a lens that pleases everyone, or the variety of lenses that would be needed to please everyone.  So whatever they make, someone will be unhappy that their personal goals for a new lens weren't met.

It appears that Nikon designed their new 58/1.4 with similar goals — it offers a very nice look, similar to the 50/1.2L based on what I've seen online.  It's not surprising that Ming Thein recently wrote about the Nikon 58/1.4:  "No intention of buying one since the demos I tried in Japan a couple of weeks ago were pretty soft and ‘glowy’ at f1.4 ..."  It's not his kind of lens — so he bought the Otus instead.

With the 50/1.2L Canon delivered a lens that some photographers very much wanted and that measured very well in the 50mm ecosystem of its time.  It doesn't please everyone, but it pleases some photographers very much.  The fact that the Otus raises the bar is great, but not so relevant for the many photographers who are simply not interested in a $4k manual focus non-weather-sealed lens, even one as good as that. 

Now we eagerly wait to see what Sigma brings to the table ...

You do have a meaningful point here, basically:

Canon 50mm f/1.2 @ f/1.2

Center Resolution: 4/10 
Average Resolution: 0/10
Lack of Chromatic Aberration: 3/10
Lack of Purple Fringing: 3/10
Lack of Glowiness/Hazing: 2/10
Bokeh Transition Quality: 8/10
Lack of Bokeh Artifacts: 10/10
Contrast & Color: 10/10
Lack of Onion Bokeh: 8/10
Lack of Ugly Distortion: 8/10

The Canon f/1.2 L is one of the worst lenses in a few categories, and one of the best in others. Personally I like a well balanced lens.

I actually switched from using a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L II, to a Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 VC because of this idea of balance band has much better color and ecause it has much better bokeh transitions, lacks bokeh artifacts, contrast than the Canon II, which is 3 times more expensive. Which to most people would be a hugely sacrilegious switch, considering the advantages in resolution and the fact that the Canon is an APO lens, which is mind blowing. But after using both the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 I, and II, and the Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 vc, I stuck with the Tamron. The Canon 24-70mm II just has a look that is way too clinical, it makes things look ugly and lacks color and contrast, and the bokeh of the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 I just looks  busy. I also tried the Nikon 24-70mm 2.8G and it was actually between the Tamron and the Canon I 24-70mm in almost every way. The Nikon had some business in the background but was a little better controlled than the Canon.

Simply put the Tamron 24-70mm VC takes the best all around photos out of any of the Canon or Nikon compatible 24-70mm f/2.8 lenses (You can also adapt Nikon lenses to Canon and manual focus). Go figure, though I still keep a spare in case I run into onion bokeh issues, which is the lenses only major flaw.

I also don't like the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 because it takes too much away from other categories to achieve it's resolution. After owning the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 (the best one I found out of several copies) I sold it and went back to the Canon 35mm f/1.4, because it has much less purple fringing, lacks that weird mustache distortion, and has slightly nicer bokeh.

I used to be very obsessed with resolution, but experience has taught me that a well balanced lens takes better photos.

The Canon 50mm f/1.2 is not a well balanced lens though. At resolutions above 1024 pixels on the short side, it really shows a lack of detail, and even at resolutions below that you have to basically walk on eggshells to get it to create a sharp image wide open. There is no room for error. It also has a painfully high level of purple fringing.

At f/1.4 I like the Canon 1.2 over the 1.4 though because the 1.4 has very busy bokeh which is very noticeable at that aperture, even though the 1.4 has more resolution at that aperture. However I think that the Sigma 1.4 is better than either Canon at 1.4. It basically combines the strengths of both Canon lenses into one, and you can't beat that. The Nikon 58mm is basically a lot like the Sigma 1.4 wide open, except the Nikon is super sharp. It's a shame then that the other main difference is that it has so much purple fringing.

In conclusion, excluding the Otus due to price:

Canon 1.4 @ f/2.0 = best
Sigma 1.4 @ f/1.4 = best
Nikon 58mm 1.4 @ f/1.4 = too much purple fringing
Canon 1.2 @ f/1.4 (or f/1.2) = Capable of great images in the right hands but only up to web sized wide open, due to extreme softness.

Also @ f/1.4 Zeiss 50mm Sumi = Sigma 50mm = Nikon 50mm G f/1.4 (for the most part they deliver basically the same images)

I wouldn't shoot with any 50mm other than the Otus wide open though as the image quality of the double gauss design wide open is just really unacceptable.

If Sigma is releasing a new 50mm though that means that they have probably made huge improvements in image quality. Lets just hope there are no downsides.

LOL-LOL-LOL

There is nothing wrong shooting with TAMMY. However, the number #1 reason many photographers settle with TAMMY is due to tighter budget - not for better IQ, not better in AF speed, or VC feature etc...

If we have a choice to pick one FREE lens between Canon 24-70 II and Tammy 24-70 f2.8 VC, you think people going to take TAMMY over Canon?

You can love me or hate me by saying that, but that is the TRUE in many cases.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Northstar on January 10, 2014, 05:21:28 AM
I mean to say that double gauss f/1.4 or faster lenses have image quality that is so incredibly bad that it's off the scale.

Compared to 85mm or 35mm primes @ f/1.4 double gauss normal lenses have:

10 times less spacial resolution
5 times more chromatic aberration
4 times more purple fringing
4 times as much hazing

Nevertheless, ...

  • As of 2012, the 50/1.2L tested better for resolution than any 50mm from Nikon, Zeiss or Sigma on LensRentals' shootout.  That's a success. 
  • The 50/1.2L stopped down delivers a wonderful look that is not accounted for in those tests but that is known to photographers.  The advantage of the lens is not the slight extra bit of light going from f/1.4 to f/1.2 — this is less important than ever in the digital era.  And it's not the bokeh at f/1.2 — that's not a useful aperture for a lot of what a 50mm is used for.  Instead, the advantage is the overall look, especially for portraits, and especially stopped down 1, 2 or 3 stops.  That look is why some photographers describe it as their favorite lens.  In that regard too, it's a success. 

Even though you say it's a fact that 50mm lenses are "horrible", it's also fact that many photographers buy, use, enjoy and often prefer 50mm lenses.  That says the photograph is what matters, not the metrics.

Even though a lens may be "just right" for some photographers, it won't & can't please everyone.  A manufacturer can't make a lens that pleases everyone, or the variety of lenses that would be needed to please everyone.  So whatever they make, someone will be unhappy that their personal goals for a new lens weren't met.

It appears that Nikon designed their new 58/1.4 with similar goals — it offers a very nice look, similar to the 50/1.2L based on what I've seen online.  It's not surprising that Ming Thein recently wrote about the Nikon 58/1.4:  "No intention of buying one since the demos I tried in Japan a couple of weeks ago were pretty soft and ‘glowy’ at f1.4 ..."  It's not his kind of lens — so he bought the Otus instead.

With the 50/1.2L Canon delivered a lens that some photographers very much wanted and that measured very well in the 50mm ecosystem of its time.  It doesn't please everyone, but it pleases some photographers very much.  The fact that the Otus raises the bar is great, but not so relevant for the many photographers who are simply not interested in a $4k manual focus non-weather-sealed lens, even one as good as that. 

Now we eagerly wait to see what Sigma brings to the table ...

You do have a meaningful point here, basically:

Canon 50mm f/1.2 @ f/1.2

Center Resolution: 4/10 
Average Resolution: 0/10
Lack of Chromatic Aberration: 3/10
Lack of Purple Fringing: 3/10
Lack of Glowiness/Hazing: 2/10
Bokeh Transition Quality: 8/10
Lack of Bokeh Artifacts: 10/10
Contrast & Color: 10/10
Lack of Onion Bokeh: 8/10
Lack of Ugly Distortion: 8/10

The Canon f/1.2 L is one of the worst lenses in a few categories, and one of the best in others. Personally I like a well balanced lens.

I actually switched from using a Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L II, to a Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 VC because of this idea of balance because it has much better bokeh transitions, lacks bokeh artifacts, and has much better color and contrast than the Canon II, which is 3 times more expensive. Which to most people would be a hugely sacrilegious switch, considering the advantages in resolution and the fact that the Canon is an APO lens, which is mind blowing. But after using both the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 I, and II, and the Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 vc, I stuck with the Tamron. The Canon 24-70mm II just has a look that is way too clinical, it makes things look ugly and lacks color and contrast, and the bokeh of the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 I just looks  busy. I also tried the Nikon 24-70mm 2.8G and it was actually between the Tamron and the Canon I 24-70mm in almost every way. The Nikon had some business in the background but was a little better controlled than the Canon.

Simply put the Tamron 24-70mm VC takes the best all around photos out of any of the Canon or Nikon compatible 24-70mm f/2.8 lenses (You can also adapt Nikon lenses to Canon and manual focus). Go figure, though I still keep a spare in case I run into onion bokeh issues, which is the lenses only major flaw.

I also don't like the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 because it takes too much away from other categories to achieve it's resolution. After owning the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 (the best one I found out of several copies) I sold it and went back to the Canon 35mm f/1.4, because it has much less purple fringing, lacks that weird mustache distortion, and has slightly nicer bokeh.

I used to be very obsessed with resolution, but experience has taught me that a well balanced lens takes better photos.

The Canon 50mm f/1.2 is not a well balanced lens though. At resolutions above 1024 pixels on the short side, it really shows a lack of detail, and even at resolutions below that you have to basically walk on eggshells to get it to create a sharp image wide open. There is no room for error. It also has a painfully high level of purple fringing.

At f/1.4 I like the Canon 1.2 over the 1.4 though because the 1.4 has very busy bokeh which is very noticeable at that aperture, even though the 1.4 has more resolution at that aperture. However I think that the Sigma 1.4 is better than either Canon at 1.4. It basically combines the strengths of both Canon lenses into one, and you can't beat that. The Nikon 58mm is basically a lot like the Sigma 1.4 wide open, except the Nikon is super sharp. It's a shame then that the other main difference is that it has so much purple fringing.

In conclusion, excluding the Otus due to price:

Canon 1.4 @ f/2.0 = best
Sigma 1.4 @ f/1.4 = best
Nikon 58mm 1.4 @ f/1.4 = too much purple fringing
Canon 1.2 @ f/1.4 (or f/1.2) = Capable of great images in the right hands but only up to web sized wide open, due to extreme softness.

Also @ f/1.4 Zeiss 50mm Sumi = Sigma 50mm = Nikon 50mm G f/1.4 (for the most part they deliver basically the same images)

I wouldn't shoot with any 50mm other than the Otus wide open though as the image quality of the double gauss design wide open is just really unacceptable.

If Sigma is releasing a new 50mm though that means that they have probably made huge improvements in image quality. Lets just hope there are no downsides.

Radiating...you definitely provide an interesting point of view.  Thanks for posting your thoughts/opinions.  But, to choose a Tammy 24-70 over the Canon 24-70ii due to better overall image quality, really?   

To me, it seems you may have become a bit too obsessed with bokeh as compared to resolution.   While a pleasing bokeh is nice, it's importance relative to resolution is minor.   IMO. 

My 24-70 2.8 ii creates images with such incredible sharpness, contrast, and color that it eliminates the need to own a prime in that focal range unless you need to work wider than 2.8.

Back to topic...i have been waiting a long time for a 50mm lens that can create sharp and contrasty images at 1.4, and has accurate and fast AF.  So I'll be buying this lens immediately when it's available and keeping it if it performs as required.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: sagittariansrock on January 10, 2014, 03:10:55 PM
The Zeiss Otus is nearly 10 inches long, which seems to be what you need to avoid the double gauss design. The new Sigma is an inch longer than the last one, at 4 inches so I highly doubt that it will be any other design, but we don't know for sure.

The Otus is about 6" long, I don't know if I call that "nearly 10 inches".
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Artifex on January 10, 2014, 04:05:42 PM
The Zeiss Otus is nearly 10 inches long, which seems to be what you need to avoid the double gauss design. The new Sigma is an inch longer than the last one, at 4 inches so I highly doubt that it will be any other design, but we don't know for sure.

The Otus is about 6" long, I don't know if I call that "nearly 10 inches".
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)

I'm in no way a specialist and I might be wrong, but the 50mm Art design makes me more think it could be a retrofocus design like the Otus 55mm. Maybe someone with better knowledge could confirm or negate this.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Eldar on January 10, 2014, 04:47:43 PM
The Zeiss Otus is nearly 10 inches long, which seems to be what you need to avoid the double gauss design. The new Sigma is an inch longer than the last one, at 4 inches so I highly doubt that it will be any other design, but we don't know for sure.

The Otus is about 6" long, I don't know if I call that "nearly 10 inches".
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)

I'm in no way a specialist and I might be wrong, but the 50mm Art design makes me more think it could be a retrofocus design like the Otus 55mm. Maybe someone with better knowledge could confirm or negate this.
The Otus, just the bare lens without cap, is (measured with a plastic ruler) 5" long.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: sagittariansrock on January 10, 2014, 07:29:08 PM
The Zeiss Otus is nearly 10 inches long, which seems to be what you need to avoid the double gauss design. The new Sigma is an inch longer than the last one, at 4 inches so I highly doubt that it will be any other design, but we don't know for sure.

The Otus is about 6" long, I don't know if I call that "nearly 10 inches".
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)

I'm in no way a specialist and I might be wrong, but the 50mm Art design makes me more think it could be a retrofocus design like the Otus 55mm. Maybe someone with better knowledge could confirm or negate this.
The Otus, just the bare lens without cap, is (measured with a plastic ruler) 5" long.

I just rounded off the specs on the website (because 10" sounded ridiculous); you, of course, have the real thing :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 10, 2014, 07:43:27 PM
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)

Very true, I would say. It's very similar to, but simpler than the 35mm, and it looks almost like they took a double gauss design and added an entire set of front elements to correct all sorts of aberrations, almost like two lenses in one. Here are the two designs compared to the double Gauss of the 1.2L (bottom):

(Top to bottom: Sigma 50mm A, 35mm A, 50L 1.2)

Note: that 35mm A has some engineering gone into it; makes the 1.2L look shamefully simple (and overpriced despite the elements being bigger of course!!!).
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 11, 2014, 06:34:58 AM
This 50A promises to be an excellent performer. Sigma has again been able to identify a lack in the current available lineups - no 50mm out there is a top performer wide open, except the Otus.

The fact that it's smaller and lighter than the 35A is an additional plus. Hopefully the price will be around 600 EUR/USD, though I expect it more in the 700 range.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mb66energy on January 11, 2014, 03:39:05 PM
The Zeiss Otus is nearly 10 inches long, which seems to be what you need to avoid the double gauss design. The new Sigma is an inch longer than the last one, at 4 inches so I highly doubt that it will be any other design, but we don't know for sure.

The Otus is about 6" long, I don't know if I call that "nearly 10 inches".
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)

I'm in no way a specialist and I might be wrong, but the 50mm Art design makes me more think it could be a retrofocus design like the Otus 55mm. Maybe someone with better knowledge could confirm or negate this.

I am shure that the new Sigma is a retrofocus design similar to the OTUS and just a little bit of an enhanced double gauss. I tried to list the lens sequency of different lenses/types: + means a convergent lens, - a divergent lens, lens sequences without blanks mean lens groups:

                  +- -+ Doppelgauß type
                + +- -+ + Planar type
            + + - -+ -+ +  EF1.2 50
        + - +-+ + +- -+ +- + Sigma 1.4 50 Art
        - - + + + +- -+ - + + Zeiss OTUS 1.4 55
         + - + - + - + - + +   EF 2.8 24 as another retrofocus design with positive first element


I marked the achromatic doublets red where I think the "Doppelgauß" genes might reside in the newer designs. From that I see that the new Sigma and the OTUS have similar genes and share negative elements in front of the core Doppelgauß which indicates a retrofocus construction.

Just my 2ct.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Quasimodo on January 11, 2014, 07:43:09 PM
The Zeiss Otus is nearly 10 inches long, which seems to be what you need to avoid the double gauss design. The new Sigma is an inch longer than the last one, at 4 inches so I highly doubt that it will be any other design, but we don't know for sure.

The Otus is about 6" long, I don't know if I call that "nearly 10 inches".
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)

I'm in no way a specialist and I might be wrong, but the 50mm Art design makes me more think it could be a retrofocus design like the Otus 55mm. Maybe someone with better knowledge could confirm or negate this.

I am shure that the new Sigma is a retrofocus design similar to the OTUS and just a little bit of an enhanced double gauss. I tried to list the lens sequency of different lenses/types: + means a convergent lens, - a divergent lens, lens sequences without blanks mean lens groups:

                  +- -+ Doppelgauß type
                + +- -+ + Planar type
            + + - -+ -+ +  EF1.2 50
        + - +-+ + +- -+ +- + Sigma 1.4 50 Art
        - - + + + +- -+ - + + Zeiss OTUS 1.4 55
         + - + - + - + - + +   EF 2.8 24 as another retrofocus design with positive first element


I marked the achromatic doublets red where I think the "Doppelgauß" genes might reside in the newer designs. From that I see that the new Sigma and the OTUS have similar genes and share negative elements in front of the core Doppelgauß which indicates a retrofocus construction.

Just my 2ct.

One is allowed to hope :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: 9VIII on January 11, 2014, 09:07:03 PM
I'm fine if Sigma copied the best 50mm lens ever made.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 12, 2014, 03:37:08 AM
I'm fine if Sigma copied the best 50mm lens ever made.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Same here. And they even added AF :D
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Quasimodo on January 12, 2014, 03:39:57 AM
I'm fine if Sigma copied the best 50mm lens ever made.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Not only is it flattery, but the modus for most innovations. Innovation through copying :) Most innovations we see today are incrimental. First we copy, and then we add a smart feature. Where would phones be today if it was´nt for iPhone? That was a real innovation, and Samsung and all other touch-devises have been piggybacking on that one innovation.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 12, 2014, 06:23:49 AM
I'm fine if Sigma copied the best 50mm lens ever made.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

I think it's too strong to say that Sigma 'copied' Zeiss. Manufacturers keep an eye out for technology from the competition and try to learn from them as well, but 'copying' is generalising too much. Sigma has incredible lens-design know-how (it is their core business!) and recently they decided to up the ante - and also the price of the new products. It's not as if Sigma suddenly became better at lens design, it's the way they approach the market that changed.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: 9VIII on January 12, 2014, 05:02:32 PM
I'm fine if Sigma copied the best 50mm lens ever made.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Not only is it flattery, but the modus for most innovations. Innovation through copying :) Most innovations we see today are incrimental. First we copy, and then we add a smart feature. Where would phones be today if it was´nt for iPhone? That was a real innovation, and Samsung and all other touch-devises have been piggybacking on that one innovation.

If it wasn't for the iPhone I'd be using a nice physical keyboard and trackball on my phone.
I was happy with the idea of 7" laptops too, but I digress.


I'm fine if Sigma copied the best 50mm lens ever made.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

I think it's too strong to say that Sigma 'copied' Zeiss. Manufacturers keep an eye out for technology from the competition and try to learn from them as well, but 'copying' is generalising too much. Sigma has incredible lens-design know-how (it is their core business!) and recently they decided to up the ante - and also the price of the new products. It's not as if Sigma suddenly became better at lens design, it's the way they approach the market that changed.

The 35A certainly indicates that Sigma is more than capable of coming up with their own good designs, I wouldn't put it past them to start working on something similar to the Otus with no knowledge of it. I wouldn't put it past them to start with an established idea either though.

On a separate point, I find it interesting that 50mm lenses would be retrofocusing. It almost sounds like lens design has come to the point where compensating for flange distance isn't a hindrance at all.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 12, 2014, 09:06:48 PM
Sigma seems to have an "enhanced" double gauss design, by the way:

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/sites/default/files/311-lens-construction.jpg)

Very true, I would say. It's very similar to, but simpler than the 35mm, and it looks almost like they took a double gauss design and added an entire set of front elements to correct all sorts of aberrations, almost like two lenses in one. Here are the two designs compared to the double Gauss of the 1.2L (bottom):

(Top to bottom: Sigma 50mm A, 35mm A, 50L 1.2)

Note: that 35mm A has some engineering gone into it; makes the 1.2L look shamefully simple (and overpriced despite the elements being bigger of course!!!).


This is the first time I've seen a block diagram of this lens, and I've been searching for it.

This lens design makes the competition's designs look obsolete. And it will probably deliver performance that makes Canon and Nikon Pro lenses look like point and shoots.


Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 13, 2014, 09:24:45 AM
This lens design makes the competition's designs look obsolete. And it will probably deliver performance that makes Canon and Nikon Pro lenses look like point and shoots.
Radiating, I'll give you this, you certainly have a flair for the dramatic.  Now I'm off to shoot with my point & shoot 5DIII ;)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Radiating on January 13, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
That's not an exaggeration, it's actually probably a conservative estimate. The 50mm L 1.2 has a resolution of 1400 lpph average @ f/1.4, which translates to around 3.4  Megapixels of resolution. There is no recent retro focal design with aspherical elements that has a resolution of less than 2800 lpph average at f/1.4, which translates to 14 megapixels.

I believe that point and shoots to dslrs is a good comparison. Or more accurately, wide open the Sigma 50mm art will at a minimum have the same difference between its competitors in performance as a D800 with the sharpest lens available versus a smartphone camera.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on January 13, 2014, 05:33:03 PM
That's not an exaggeration, it's actually probably a conservative estimate. The 50mm L 1.2 has a resolution of 1400 lpph average @ f/1.4, which translates to around 3.4  Megapixels of resolution. There is no recent retro focal design with aspherical elements that has a resolution of less than 2800 lpph average at f/1.4, which translates to 14 megapixels.

I believe that point and shoots to dslrs is a good comparison. Or more accurately, wide open the Sigma 50mm art will at a minimum have the same difference between its competitors in performance as a D800 with the sharpest lens available versus a smartphone camera.

Radiating, I really kind of see your point. If that lens wasn't a Canon L, I agree with you, it would have many fans fewer.

That said, sometimes the liking of something goes a bit further mere math. Same as you might like a woman that is not particularly beautiful but attractive nevertheless. I love my Nokton 58mm even if, in terms of sheer performance, it's nothing special. The 50L is another of that kind of lenses.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Ruined on January 13, 2014, 05:51:02 PM
That's not an exaggeration, it's actually probably a conservative estimate. The 50mm L 1.2 has a resolution of 1400 lpph average @ f/1.4, which translates to around 3.4  Megapixels of resolution. There is no recent retro focal design with aspherical elements that has a resolution of less than 2800 lpph average at f/1.4, which translates to 14 megapixels.

I believe that point and shoots to dslrs is a good comparison. Or more accurately, wide open the Sigma 50mm art will at a minimum have the same difference between its competitors in performance as a D800 with the sharpest lens available versus a smartphone camera.

I think if you bought the 50mm f/1.2L looking for sharpness you missed the point, because sharpness was not the main goal of the lens design.  There are plenty of sharp lenses in the Canon lineup including the $99 50mm 1.8 and under $300 50mm 1.4.  This year there will likely be a ~$600 50mm f/1.8 IS that will likely be the sharpest yet.

But, none of those lenses have the bokeh of the 50mm f/1.2L, and that is the real purpose of the lens.  If you want sharpness, get a f/1.4 50mm. If you want that ultra creamy bokeh, the 50mm f/1.2L is where its at.  Yes, the 85L also has creamy bokeh and is sharper, but it is 85mm which may be unusable in tight quarters.  Its frankly amazing that Canon was able to get bokeh so beautiful on a 50mm, given the wide angle.

Example: For weddings, an overall beautiful picture is generally more desirable than exposing every pore on the bride's face.  If I want to do that I'll use my 24-70 II, 100L Macro, or 70-200 II IS.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 14, 2014, 03:45:10 AM
For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: GMCPhotographics on January 14, 2014, 04:52:35 AM
That's not an exaggeration, it's actually probably a conservative estimate. The 50mm L 1.2 has a resolution of 1400 lpph average @ f/1.4, which translates to around 3.4  Megapixels of resolution. There is no recent retro focal design with aspherical elements that has a resolution of less than 2800 lpph average at f/1.4, which translates to 14 megapixels.

I believe that point and shoots to dslrs is a good comparison. Or more accurately, wide open the Sigma 50mm art will at a minimum have the same difference between its competitors in performance as a D800 with the sharpest lens available versus a smartphone camera.

Radiating, I really kind of see your point. If that lens wasn't a Canon L, I agree with you, it would have many fans fewer.


L lenses aren't just about optical quality, it's the whole build and reliability features which are designed into the lenes too. A 50mm f1.4 USM's build is a toy in comparision.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Ruined on January 14, 2014, 08:54:47 AM
For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.

I can understand your desire for the sharpest lens, but again that was obviously not the vision the designers had for the 50mm f/1.2L; there are very obvious things they could have done to increase sharpness in the design, but again that was not the point.  The 50L was designed to be a high quality lens that prioritizes bokeh over everything else, and it has an extremely unique look that can make your work stand out from the crowd.  Movies have been shot with the 50L because of its bokeh.

Again, these days super sharp lenses are a dime-a-dozen, but a wide lens that also has spectacular bokeh (significantly better than the 35L IMO, for instance) is rare.  And of course, all of these 1.4 lenses don't do 1.2.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 14, 2014, 09:45:57 AM
For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.

I can understand your desire for the sharpest lens, but again that was obviously not the vision the designers had for the 50mm f/1.2L; there are very obvious things they could have done to increase sharpness in the design, but again that was not the point.  The 50L was designed to be a high quality lens that prioritizes bokeh over everything else, and it has an extremely unique look that can make your work stand out from the crowd.  Movies have been shot with the 50L because of its bokeh.

Again, these days super sharp lenses are a dime-a-dozen, but a wide lens that also has spectacular bokeh (significantly better than the 35L IMO, for instance) is rare.  And of course, all of these 1.4 lenses don't do 1.2.
+1 - well said, and to quote Roger Cicala from Lensrentals:

"Well, we could talk about this for hours: this is one of the most controversial, irritating, and spectacular lenses in the lineup. I won’t pretend to know what you’ll think of it, but our customers are evenly divided with “I love it” and “I hate it.”  The bottom line: when this lens is right, the shots are spectacular and the background blur is awesome, just like the 85 f/1.2. But it’s more finicky and more difficult to get those shots with this lens."
Source: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/normal-range/canon-50mm-f1.2l (http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/normal-range/canon-50mm-f1.2l)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Ruined on January 14, 2014, 10:55:47 AM
For me the issue with the 50 L is simply out of center quality. If it had the same sharpness on the outer focusing points on the 1dx/5d3 as it did center, and AF like the 35 L I would hardly use anything else. But anything off center at bigger than f2.0 is veryvery emergencies only.

I'm selling my Zeiss and wondering about a 50 L again, or wait for reviews of the Siggy. I love the 50 focal.

I can understand your desire for the sharpest lens, but again that was obviously not the vision the designers had for the 50mm f/1.2L; there are very obvious things they could have done to increase sharpness in the design, but again that was not the point.  The 50L was designed to be a high quality lens that prioritizes bokeh over everything else, and it has an extremely unique look that can make your work stand out from the crowd.  Movies have been shot with the 50L because of its bokeh.

Again, these days super sharp lenses are a dime-a-dozen, but a wide lens that also has spectacular bokeh (significantly better than the 35L IMO, for instance) is rare.  And of course, all of these 1.4 lenses don't do 1.2.
+1 - well said, and to quote Roger Cicala from Lensrentals:

"Well, we could talk about this for hours: this is one of the most controversial, irritating, and spectacular lenses in the lineup. I won’t pretend to know what you’ll think of it, but our customers are evenly divided with “I love it” and “I hate it.”  The bottom line: when this lens is right, the shots are spectacular and the background blur is awesome, just like the 85 f/1.2. But it’s more finicky and more difficult to get those shots with this lens."
Source: http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/normal-range/canon-50mm-f1.2l (http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/normal-range/canon-50mm-f1.2l)

Sure,
The way I look at it, the 50L is for a special crowd, and is especially beneficial to wedding photographers.  It just has that special glow to it similar to the 85L, but at a focal length that is more usable indoors.  Extremely flattering for couples, creating a bit of a dreamy depature from reality in the pics.  If you are just about pixel peeping, this is not the lens for you and there are far cheaper ones that will do the job you are looking for.

The tradeoff for the mind-blowing bokeh is sharpness with this lens, as well as some quirks that require a bit more knowledge and skill than the typical lens.  But, aside from the $10k Leica Noctilux you probably aren't going to find a 50mm lens that exceeds the Canon 50mm f/1.2L in bokeh (and those two are surprisingly close from the online comparisons I've seen).  That is the point, not sharpness - which can be easily had at a MUCH cheaper price point in primes, or a zoom lke the 24-70 II.

The 50L should not be your only lens, but it sure contributes to having a killer lens lineup in your arsenal.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 14, 2014, 11:02:12 AM
The tradeoff for the mind-blowing bokeh is sharpness with this lens, as well as some quirks that require a bit more knowledge and skill than the typical lens.  But, aside from the $10k Leica Noctilux you probably aren't going to find a 50mm lens that exceeds the Canon 50mm f/1.2L in bokeh (and those two are surprisingly close from the online comparisons I've seen).  That is the point, not sharpness - which can be easily had at a MUCH cheaper price point in primes, or a zoom lke the 24-70 II.

The 50L should not be your only lens, but it sure contributes to having a killer lens lineup in your arsenal.
Speaking of the Leica, Photozone reviewed it recently and it's pretty similar in performance at max aperture to the 50L (but that money does buy the f/0.95 aperture!):
http://www.photozone.de/leicam/860-noctilux50asph?start=1 (http://www.photozone.de/leicam/860-noctilux50asph?start=1)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 14, 2014, 11:40:13 AM
Hands on: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art ignores Canon L, Nikon glass and targets Zeiss Otus. No, really.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass (http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on January 14, 2014, 11:49:54 AM
Hands on: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art ignores Canon L, Nikon glass and targets Zeiss Otus. No, really.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass (http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass)

Go Sigma, Go!  8)

As you can see from my signature, I'm a fan of Sigma at least in regards to their wide to normal lens line-up. I wonder if I'll be able to resist the new 50 if it really turns out to be that good...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Quasimodo on January 14, 2014, 12:32:16 PM
The tradeoff for the mind-blowing bokeh is sharpness with this lens, as well as some quirks that require a bit more knowledge and skill than the typical lens.  But, aside from the $10k Leica Noctilux you probably aren't going to find a 50mm lens that exceeds the Canon 50mm f/1.2L in bokeh (and those two are surprisingly close from the online comparisons I've seen).  That is the point, not sharpness - which can be easily had at a MUCH cheaper price point in primes, or a zoom lke the 24-70 II.

The 50L should not be your only lens, but it sure contributes to having a killer lens lineup in your arsenal.
Speaking of the Leica, Photozone reviewed it recently and it's pretty similar in performance at max aperture to the 50L (but that money does buy the f/0.95 aperture!):
http://www.photozone.de/leicam/860-noctilux50asph?start=1 (http://www.photozone.de/leicam/860-noctilux50asph?start=1)

If I am not mistaken, Canon had a 50mm .95 lens too, but that was in the film days :)

Edit: I just saw now that it was mentioned in the link you posted.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Ruined on January 15, 2014, 09:38:38 AM
Hands on: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art ignores Canon L, Nikon glass and targets Zeiss Otus. No, really.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass (http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/01/08/sigma-50mm-f-1.4-art-targets-zeiss-otus-ignores-canon-l-nikon-glass)

Not surprising, and what I expected given the similar retrofocal design.

I don't believe the Canon double gauss design is inferior to the retrofocal design.  They have different design goals.

Canon's 50mm f/1.2 double gauss design purposely does not correct a good portion of the spherical abberation in order to provide more dreamy bokeh, and this remaining spherical abberation while providing a more dreamy look contributes to the challenges in focusing at more narrow apertures.  Results are superior bokeh, comparable small size, wider aperture.  Think of it as a modern-day compromise between good sharpness and a soft focus lens.

On the other hand, the retrofocal design is much larger and more complex - the advantage being that more elements can be introduced to correct and manipulate the incoming light.  Results can be great sharpness, comparable larger size, but bokeh is not as dreamy (as correcting more of the spherical abberation is one of the reasons for the increased sharpness) - aperture also slower.

So, the bottom line is:
Canon f/1.2 (Double Gauss) - buy if you want the more dreamy bokeh/wider max aperture/smaller size
Retrofocal Design - buy if you want more sharpness/narrower max aperture

I think the Canon would be better for weddings and model photography, while the retrofocal designs might be better for projects where you need maximum sharpness.  Personally, I already have a whole collection of super sharp lenses and bought the Canon specifically for its flattering presentation of couples/weddings, where seeing every pore and wart is not necessarily desired - plus the fantastic bokeh.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Eldar on January 15, 2014, 10:38:40 AM
Having bought the Otus, I´m not sure how much I Should look forward to a full review of this lens, but never the less I Really do.

I also fully agree with Ruined, about his assessment of the value of the 50 f1.2L. You don´t always want the extreme sharpness and reveal every little ugly detail, but rather have the creamy and beautiful bokeh. I must say though that I find the bokeh from the Otus is quite acceptable.

I don´t have any doubts that the Sigma will be superb in sharpness. But I wonder how the bokeh will be.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 15, 2014, 10:55:08 AM
Having bought the Otus, I´m not sure how much I Should look forward to a full review of this lens, but never the less I Really do.

I also fully agree with Ruined, about his assessment of the value of the 50 f1.2L. You don´t always want the extreme sharpness and reveal every little ugly detail, but rather have the creamy and beautiful bokeh. I must say though that I find the bokeh from the Otus is quite acceptable.

I don´t have any doubts that the Sigma will be superb in sharpness. But I wonder how the bokeh will be.
Eldar, given the sample shots you've posted, I'd say the bokeh from the Otus is more than okay!  I also wonder about the new Sigma's bokeh and plan to buy one for comparison.

For owners of the 35 Art, how does the build quality compare to the L lenses?  That's the other reason I bought the 50L and as I haven't actually held 35 Art, I'm wondering how they match up.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Eldar on January 15, 2014, 11:26:52 AM
Having bought the Otus, I´m not sure how much I Should look forward to a full review of this lens, but never the less I Really do.

I also fully agree with Ruined, about his assessment of the value of the 50 f1.2L. You don´t always want the extreme sharpness and reveal every little ugly detail, but rather have the creamy and beautiful bokeh. I must say though that I find the bokeh from the Otus is quite acceptable.

I don´t have any doubts that the Sigma will be superb in sharpness. But I wonder how the bokeh will be.
Eldar, given the sample shots you've posted, I'd say the bokeh from the Otus is more than okay!  I also wonder about the new Sigma's bokeh and plan to buy one for comparison.

For owners of the 35 Art, how does the build quality compare to the L lenses?  That's the other reason I bought the 50L and as I haven't actually held 35 Art, I'm wondering how they match up.
I have the Sigma 35/1.4 and I remember the first time I held it and the Zeiss-feeling it gave me. It is plastic in some areas where Zeiss is metal, but so are the L-series. It does not have a hard stop at MFD and infinity, but the L-series are the same (well, not all of them).

It is not weather sealed, which is an issue for me, even though it has not been a problem so far. Well I think it has not been a problem. For the AF on my copy started drifting and a recent AFMA was 7 points different to the initial AFMA I did when I bought it. If that repeats itself, I´ll send it in and we´ll see what Sigma says. Maybe some moisture has entered the body and done something.

Being an f/1.4 lens I would have preferred to have a little more movement for the focusing mechanism. From MFD to infinity is about 45deg. To really fine tune focus it would have been preferable to have at least 60deg for improved precision. The focus drift may have had something to do with that, I don´t know. For comparison, even though not totally relevant, the Otus focusing ring moves about 240deg (visual approximation).

But summing up, the Sigma is very close to the L-series in mechanical build, but not quite the same.

But another comparison. I held the much acclaimed Nikon 14-24 the other day, for the first time. And it might be that my expectations were a bit too high, but that lens gave me a real plastic feeling. Turning the zoom ring was really plastic. So compared to that, I would say the Sigma feels very good.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on January 15, 2014, 12:10:41 PM
I have the Sigma 35/1.4 and I remember the first time I held it and the Zeiss-feeling it gave me. It is plastic in some areas where Zeiss is metal, but so are the L-series. It does not have a hard stop at MFD and infinity, but the L-series are the same (well, not all of them).

It is not weather sealed, which is an issue for me, even though it has not been a problem so far. Well I think it has not been a problem. For the AF on my copy started drifting and a recent AFMA was 7 points different to the initial AFMA I did when I bought it. If that repeats itself, I´ll send it in and we´ll see what Sigma says. Maybe some moisture has entered the body and done something.

Being an f/1.4 lens I would have preferred to have a little more movement for the focusing mechanism. From MFD to infinity is about 45deg. To really fine tune focus it would have been preferable to have at least 60deg for improved precision. The focus drift may have had something to do with that, I don´t know. For comparison, even though not totally relevant, the Otus focusing ring moves about 240deg (visual approximation).

But summing up, the Sigma is very close to the L-series in mechanical build, but not quite the same.

But another comparison. I held the much acclaimed Nikon 14-24 the other day, for the first time. And it might be that my expectations were a bit too high, but that lens gave me a real plastic feeling. Turning the zoom ring was really plastic. So compared to that, I would say the Sigma feels very good.
Thanks for the great information and I hope things work out with your Sigma 35/1.4.  It sounds like the new 50 could be quite a lens if it lives up the hype (unlike your Nikon 14-24 experience).
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: NancyP on January 24, 2014, 12:01:17 PM
Some fun can be had with old f/1.2 and f/1.4 film lenses of the double Gauss (Planar) design. Low contrast and tons of aberration at f/1.2, but the dreamy look can be had for 300 bucks if old film lenses are adapted. Of course, then you have manual focus and manual aperture and no electronic feedback to deal with. I have been enjoying an old Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 on my 6D. It's a b... to focus at f/1.2, and the bokeh isn't up to the 50L quality, but still, it's fun, and the lens is sharp sharp sharp at f/2.8-5.6.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 28, 2014, 05:22:56 AM
Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on January 29, 2014, 12:39:44 AM
Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?

I think they're waiting until CP+ on the 13th - 16th Feb to announce the price etc. I'm tempted to go to it. One Shinkansen ride away for me. Plus they seem to be giving away tickets if you register.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 29, 2014, 03:42:04 AM
Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?

I think they're waiting until CP+ on the 13th - 16th Feb to announce the price etc. I'm tempted to go to it. One Shinkansen ride away for me. Plus they seem to be giving away tickets if you register.

Thanks! That makes sense, I still have a couple of 35's to sell, but man! I wanna have a go with that Siggy  ;D
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on January 29, 2014, 05:34:08 AM
Nothing new about the 50A? No pre order, weight TBA, no price, no word, no rumors, no nothing?

I think they're waiting until CP+ on the 13th - 16th Feb to announce the price etc. I'm tempted to go to it. One Shinkansen ride away for me. Plus they seem to be giving away tickets if you register.

Thanks! That makes sense, I still have a couple of 35's to sell, but man! I wanna have a go with that Siggy  ;D

I know how you feel though about waiting. It seems like forever. I think the price will be around the same as the 35 1.4 Art. The price is not the issue for me it's availability. Take my money Sigma! Just give me it already!!

I also want to see how it stacks up against the old one and the 50L. Doubt I'll buy the 50L ever but I am curious about the creamy bokeh, will this new Sigma provide us the delicious bokeh we all crave??
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: robbinzo on January 29, 2014, 05:38:31 AM
I've been thinking about going Sigma because of AF issues with my Canon 50 f/1.4.
I love the shots I get with it but there used to be so many out of focus shots that it was just infuriating. I was teetering on the brink of selling it.
However, since I bought my 70D, I can nail focus most of the time. Why? Dual pixel AF technology. I am almost exclusively using live view AF now with my nifty fifty and I can report that the results are so many times more consistent than even the very good inherited-from-the-7D AF system can produce.
I've been shooting indoors today with f/2.0 with a shutter speed of 1/100 albeit pushing the ISO a bit but the results are very good indeed.
Even adjusting the AFMA doesn't come close to the live view focus because the focus is achieved on the sensor and there are no adjustments necessary in live view. It was a real wow moment.
The live view seems to be pretty quick too. Not much messing around hunting for focus.
I love my 50 again!
This also begs the question: Would the Dual Pixel AF system work well with 3rd party lenses?
Has anyone out there used the 70D with a 3rd party lens and found their results have improved?
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on January 29, 2014, 06:56:15 AM
I've been thinking about going Sigma because of AF issues with my Canon 50 f/1.4.
I love the shots I get with it but there used to be so many out of focus shots that it was just infuriating. I was teetering on the brink of selling it.
However, since I bought my 70D, I can nail focus most of the time. Why? Dual pixel AF technology. I am almost exclusively using live view AF now with my nifty fifty and I can report that the results are so many times more consistent than even the very good inherited-from-the-7D AF system can produce.
I've been shooting indoors today with f/2.0 with a shutter speed of 1/100 albeit pushing the ISO a bit but the results are very good indeed.
Even adjusting the AFMA doesn't come close to the live view focus because the focus is achieved on the sensor and there are no adjustments necessary in live view. It was a real wow moment.
The live view seems to be pretty quick too. Not much messing around hunting for focus.
I love my 50 again!
This also begs the question: Would the Dual Pixel AF system work well with 3rd party lenses?
Has anyone out there used the 70D with a 3rd party lens and found their results have improved?

I'm more worried about AF with Sigma tbh. If you don't get same sharpness with live view and phase AF , then lens isn't calibrated. Phase can miss, but contrast can also miss. That being said, the canon 1.4 isn't exactly the pinnacle of AF performance... Let's just hope Sigma starts to figure out AF for Canon.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jdramirez on February 03, 2014, 01:32:26 PM
I don't know why I'm so excited about this 50mm... I think it is because I was willing to buy the 35 but I knew for my purposes it would be too wide.  But if the sigma approaches the zeiss, and costs about the same as the 50L, then it is just an incredible value. 
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jedy on February 14, 2014, 11:34:11 AM
To all the people commenting how good the new Sigma 50mm is or that they're selling their existing 50mm to buy it, please remember IT'S NOT OUT YET!!! You have no way to know how good it is. Wait until it's released, try it then decide. If however you're a gear whore...sorry, carry on.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jdramirez on February 14, 2014, 11:43:48 AM
To all the people commenting how good the new Sigma 50mm is or that they're selling their existing 50mm to buy it, please remember IT'S NOT OUT YET!!! You have no way to know how good it is. Wait until it's released, try it then decide. If however you're a gear whore...sorry, carry on.

I suppose we are relying on the word of sigma.  Would they stake their reputation on a lie?  This lens is the best option save for the otus. Then it comes out and is worse than the 50mm f1.8... no... their lie would catch up with them.

The best lies are the ones that can't be disproven.

Imagine being at a bar and telling a girl you are well endowed like nothing she has ever seen or felt before.  She goes home with you, but in reality... fifth graders put you to shame. 

The truth will come out...

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: privatebydesign on February 14, 2014, 12:33:23 PM
To all the people commenting how good the new Sigma 50mm is or that they're selling their existing 50mm to buy it, please remember IT'S NOT OUT YET!!! You have no way to know how good it is. Wait until it's released, try it then decide. If however you're a gear whore...sorry, carry on.

I suppose we are relying on the word of sigma.  Would they stake their reputation on a lie?  This lens is the best option save for the otus. Then it comes out and is worse than the 50mm f1.8... no... their lie would catch up with them.

The best lies are the ones that can't be disproven.

Imagine being at a bar and telling a girl you are well endowed like nothing she has ever seen or felt before.  She goes home with you, but in reality... fifth graders put you to shame. 

The truth will come out...

But you still get the girl, even if only for a night, and Sigma would still have your money..........
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jgkphotography on February 14, 2014, 12:48:57 PM
Price and release date information will be released March 31st or so, with the actual lens releasing about mid-April, this I got in an e-mail from Sigma customer service when I contacted them directly through their website, so all the guessing will be over in about 45 days  :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jedy on February 14, 2014, 12:50:21 PM
To all the people commenting how good the new Sigma 50mm is or that they're selling their existing 50mm to buy it, please remember IT'S NOT OUT YET!!! You have no way to know how good it is. Wait until it's released, try it then decide. If however you're a gear whore...sorry, carry on.

I suppose we are relying on the word of sigma.  Would they stake their reputation on a lie?  This lens is the best option save for the otus. Then it comes out and is worse than the 50mm f1.8... no... their lie would catch up with them.

The best lies are the ones that can't be disproven.

Imagine being at a bar and telling a girl you are well endowed like nothing she has ever seen or felt before.  She goes home with you, but in reality... fifth graders put you to shame. 

The truth will come out...

Don't get your argument. I rarely base my buying decisions on the blurb from the lens company; it serves more to catch my interest and they're not going to downplay their own lenses are they? Whether it is great, is it for me? Only trying it out when it's released will decide that one.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on February 14, 2014, 02:40:10 PM
Price and release date information will be released March 31st or so, with the actual lens releasing about mid-April, this I got in an e-mail from Sigma customer service when I contacted them directly through their website, so all the guessing will be over in about 45 days  :)
jgk, welcome to CR and that sounds like the most solid information we have on the lens.  It sounds like the strategy they used for the 24-105.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on February 14, 2014, 03:03:57 PM
Ouch, wish it was sooner. They better hope the 35 L II isn't released before they get my money...Or I buy another 50 L..
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jdramirez on February 14, 2014, 03:08:48 PM
To all the people commenting how good the new Sigma 50mm is or that they're selling their existing 50mm to buy it, please remember IT'S NOT OUT YET!!! You have no way to know how good it is. Wait until it's released, try it then decide. If however you're a gear whore...sorry, carry on.

I suppose we are relying on the word of sigma.  Would they stake their reputation on a lie?  This lens is the best option save for the otus. Then it comes out and is worse than the 50mm f1.8... no... their lie would catch up with them.

The best lies are the ones that can't be disproven.

Imagine being at a bar and telling a girl you are well endowed like nothing she has ever seen or felt before.  She goes home with you, but in reality... fifth graders put you to shame. 

The truth will come out...

But you still get the girl, even if only for a night, and Sigma would still have your money..........

I think you get blue balled...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on February 14, 2014, 03:18:55 PM
...Or I buy another 50 L..
Already did that one myself, just a few days before they announced this...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on February 14, 2014, 05:29:24 PM
...Or I buy another 50 L..
Already did that one myself, just a few days before they announced this...

Stay with it, it's sublime... I really miss it..
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on February 14, 2014, 08:02:38 PM
I gave up waiting. Going to try the old Sigma 50 1.4 for now and see how it goes. Might upgrade to the new one later this year after the price settles and there are a stack of good reviews.

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jdramirez on February 14, 2014, 09:00:26 PM
I gave up waiting. Going to try the old Sigma 50 1.4 for now and see how it goes. Might upgrade to the new one later this year after the price settles and there are a stack of good reviews.

I'm kinda in the same boat.  I think I want to buy the old sigma 50 for $275... but I'm concerned that it's auto focus is going to be whack... and then someone else will buy it and not be happy with it. 
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on February 15, 2014, 07:30:40 AM
I gave up waiting. Going to try the old Sigma 50 1.4 for now and see how it goes. Might upgrade to the new one later this year after the price settles and there are a stack of good reviews.

I'm kinda in the same boat.  I think I want to buy the old sigma 50 for $275... but I'm concerned that it's auto focus is going to be whack... and then someone else will buy it and not be happy with it.

I ordered a used one. If the AF is out of whack even after AFMA I'll just use LV and manual focus it. Most of the time I shoot static stuff anyway. No biggie. For portraits I like to shoot slightly stopped down. I just like the 50 look and the only thing I have is the 24-105, which isn't all that great. Hoping for some cheap bokeh thrills really! Haha!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on February 15, 2014, 11:05:11 AM
I'm thinking about having an 85 L in my life again, again ;D
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Northstar on February 15, 2014, 02:17:46 PM
I gave up waiting. Going to try the old Sigma 50 1.4 for now and see how it goes. Might upgrade to the new one later this year after the price settles and there are a stack of good reviews.

i'm also getting impatient, but will continue to wait for the siggy 50 art.  i've read too many negative reviews on the original sig 50 1.4...I'd stick with the canon 50 1.4 IMO
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on February 15, 2014, 09:14:35 PM
I gave up waiting. Going to try the old Sigma 50 1.4 for now and see how it goes. Might upgrade to the new one later this year after the price settles and there are a stack of good reviews.

i'm also getting impatient, but will continue to wait for the soggy 50 art.  i've read to many negative reviews on the original sig 50 1.4...I'd stick with the canon 50 1.4 IMO

I had the 50mm 1.8 II for a while and it was OK for the price. The Canon 50 1.4 seemed like the logical choice but from what I can tell there are some issues with it that concern me such as the AF motor and it's durability. Then I also compared f1.4 from Sigma and Canon using TDP image comparison tool and the Sigma looked nicer. Bokeh is also reportedly nicer on the Sigma. Plus the Sigma is a newer design compared to the ancient Canon version. I'm not going to buy anymore ancient non L lenses - the 85 1.8 was a disappointment.

Finally the Sigma worked out slightly cheaper and takes 77mm filters that I already own.

I can live with a little wonky AF as long as overall IQ is good from f1.4 to around f/2.8. 
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on February 17, 2014, 04:40:47 AM
OK, I got the Sigma 50mm 1.4 non Art version today and had a short muck around with it. After a +7 AFMA it seems to be behaving a bit better and though not as accurate as I would like for the larger apertures, the hit rate seems to be much better than before. At MFD or close it is really badly front focusing at like +15. Might run it through Focal when I have more time.

Overall IQ is actually pretty good even at f/1.4 with plenty of detail. A bit more CA and fringing than the 24-105L at f/4 but nothing too distracting. Not bad for the price, might hang on to this until the new Sigma and Canon 50s come out and then go head to head.

A sample at f/1.4 with only the Lens Correction Profile applied ...


Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: 9VIII on February 19, 2014, 10:21:53 PM
I just re-learned that Fuji is releasing a 56f1.2 prime very soon.

I think I'll just pick whichever lens works better and use that as an excuse to adopt a new system if it comes to that.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: slclick on February 20, 2014, 07:14:32 AM
Sigma 50 1.4 815 grams official weight. My 24-105 Sigma is heavy as well but worth every gram.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on February 20, 2014, 09:23:56 AM
Sigma 50 1.4 815 grams official weight. My 24-105 Sigma is heavy as well but worth every gram.

We're getting to the point that equipment size and weight is increasing so much that practicality is at stake. More bulk means less space remains in the bag for other lenses. It's good to limit the stuff you carry but can be good to have a little extra space for contingency lenses. This is why I keep the old 35 f/2 and 50 f/1.8 which sacrifice a little in image quality but are very compact which is great especially for travel. note that I always limit myself to the minimum I think I will need, and my lowepro minitrekker AW is the measure for the maximum volume I want to carry.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on February 20, 2014, 10:12:45 AM
Sigma 50 1.4 815 grams official weight. My 24-105 Sigma is heavy as well but worth every gram.

We're getting to the point that equipment size and weight is increasing so much that practicality is at stake. More bulk means less space remains in the bag for other lenses. It's good to limit the stuff you carry but can be good to have a little extra space for contingency lenses. This is why I keep the old 35 f/2 and 50 f/1.8 which sacrifice a little in image quality but are very compact which is great especially for travel. note that I always limit myself to the minimum I think I will need, and my lowepro minitrekker AW is the measure for the maximum volume I want to carry.


So it weighs about as much as the 24-70 f/2.8LII (805g). That's a lot for a 50 prime. I like my primes small and light. I think Sigma are just going all out here to create the best lens they can optically. Weight be damned. The old Sig 50 has a nice weight and balances well. I'm hoping Canon makes their new 50 compact like the 24/28/35s. You can chuck all three of those in a small backpack and still have plenty of room for your lunch! We togs gotta eat on the go!
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: slclick on February 20, 2014, 10:24:58 AM
Can you imagine? "Sorry the image isn't very good but the lens is so light!"
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on February 20, 2014, 10:34:01 AM
Can you imagine? "Sorry the image isn't very good but the lens is so light!"
You must be talking about the new Nikon 58mm - LOL
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Albi86 on February 20, 2014, 10:43:07 AM
Can you imagine? "Sorry the image isn't very good but the lens is so light!"
You must be talking about the new Nikon 58mm - LOL

That is one remarkable combination of sky-high price and unimpressive performance.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Artifex on February 20, 2014, 10:51:10 AM
Can you imagine? "Sorry the image isn't very good but the lens is so light!"
You must be talking about the new Nikon 58mm - LOL

That is one remarkable combination of sky-high price and unimpressive performance.

Just because it performs worse than the Nikon 58mm produced in 1970 doesn't mean it's performance are unimpressive. Oh wait, it does…
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: sdsr on February 20, 2014, 11:24:40 AM
Can you imagine? "Sorry the image isn't very good but the lens is so light!"
You must be talking about the new Nikon 58mm - LOL

That is one remarkable combination of sky-high price and unimpressive performance.

Have you read the lenstip review of the Nikon?  Ouch!

http://www.lenstip.com/2080-news-Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_58_mm_f_1.4G_-_lens_review.html (http://www.lenstip.com/2080-news-Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_58_mm_f_1.4G_-_lens_review.html)

Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mackguyver on February 20, 2014, 11:28:33 AM
Can you imagine? "Sorry the image isn't very good but the lens is so light!"
You must be talking about the new Nikon 58mm - LOL

That is one remarkable combination of sky-high price and unimpressive performance.

Have you read the lenstip review of the Nikon?  Ouch!

http://www.lenstip.com/2080-news-Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_58_mm_f_1.4G_-_lens_review.html (http://www.lenstip.com/2080-news-Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_58_mm_f_1.4G_-_lens_review.html)
Yes, just read that yesterday and that's why I made the comment.  It sure makes me feel better about their review of the 50L :)
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on February 20, 2014, 12:42:11 PM
Can you imagine? "Sorry the image isn't very good but the lens is so light!"
You must be talking about the new Nikon 58mm - LOL

That is one remarkable combination of sky-high price and unimpressive performance.

Have you read the lenstip review of the Nikon?  Ouch!

http://www.lenstip.com/2080-news-Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_58_mm_f_1.4G_-_lens_review.html (http://www.lenstip.com/2080-news-Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_58_mm_f_1.4G_-_lens_review.html)

It may be light but it's quite bulky nevertheless. Yuck
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: ahsanford on February 21, 2014, 01:43:26 PM

Hands-on video from CP+ here:

Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | ART (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhHodHwUAt0#ws)

- A
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: mrsfotografie on February 21, 2014, 01:56:33 PM

Hands-on video from CP+ here:

Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | ART (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhHodHwUAt0#ws)

- A

Thanks for posting, the lens looks good but a little big too! Still, it's quite yummie :)

"A flower shaped hood is unnecessary on a prime lens" Who is he kidding.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: privatebydesign on February 21, 2014, 02:13:10 PM

Hands-on video from CP+ here:

Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | ART (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhHodHwUAt0#ws)

- A

Thanks for posting, the lens looks good but a little big too! Still, it's quite yummie :)

"A flower shaped hood is unnecessary on a prime lens" Who is he kidding.

Yeh, I just posted this on one of the many other Sigma 50 threads there are going and this video has been posted to.

"As is normal with internet experts who have become popular via links, clicks, likes, and linked advertising, he makes several basic errors that are just noise, this, for me, means he loses any credibility.

First, if the lens is projecting a circle then a lens hood needs to be a circle, but if we are using a rectangular section of the projection, as we do in photography, then the petal hood is correct for primes, or a rectangle.

Second, more glass equals bigger T Stop, unless your glass has exceptionally higher transmission characteristics than your comparison. Though the loss is small, the more glass light goes through the less less light comes out the right end, that doesn't mean the Sigma is not an f1.4 but his use of T stop and glass is entirely inappropriate.

He is just repeating memes he doesn't understand and using popular terms in irrelevant contexts, which kinda makes the video an annoyance to me. "
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Viggo on February 21, 2014, 03:03:23 PM
How hard would it have been to show the distance scale while doing a few focusing searches? To give a slight idea of speed again the 50 L for example.

"It looks to be the same body inside" wow...
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jdramirez on February 21, 2014, 03:28:22 PM
How hard would it have been to show the distance scale while doing a few focusing searches? To give a slight idea of speed again the 50 L for example.

"It looks to be the same body inside" wow...

That was worthless.  I did enjoy watching it though.  Reminds me of porn. 
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: yorgasor on February 21, 2014, 04:08:29 PM

Hands-on video from CP+ here:

Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | ART (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhHodHwUAt0#ws)

- A

"It's taped up so I can't take any pictures with it...", but they don't seem to have any issue with you popping the lens off and possibly attaching it to your body.  Seem rather easy to do a quick lens swap and get some sample images that way.
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: Zv on February 21, 2014, 10:05:15 PM
Regardless of Matt's errors at least we get to see the lens in comparison to the 35 1.4 which is what I was wondering. It gives me an idea of how it will look on a 5D.

Why is it in black and white though??
Title: Re: Sigma Announces the 50 f/1.4 Art Lens & More
Post by: jdramirez on February 21, 2014, 10:29:12 PM

Hands-on video from CP+ here:

Sigma 50mm F1.4 DG HSM | ART (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhHodHwUAt0#ws)

- A

"It's taped up so I can't take any pictures with it...", but they don't seem to have any issue with you popping the lens off and possibly attaching it to your body.  Seem rather easy to do a quick lens swap and get some sample images that way.

Yeah, but do you really want to encourage someone to betray the trust of Sigma... and if you are caught... then Sigma will certainly black ball you and probably every other company who knows you are a liar.  Integrity and one's reputation... take quite a bit to build... takes very little to destroy.