canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on October 27, 2011, 10:34:27 AM

Title: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: Canon Rumors on October 27, 2011, 10:34:27 AM
Movie features Dan Chung from DSLRNewsShooter talks with Mark Burnhill from Canon Europe about the video features of the new EOS-1D X.

You can see the video here

According to Mark Burnhill, the new EOS-1D X is the best performing video DSLR Canon has produced. Below is a real world break down of features.

Planet5D has the full breakdown.

cr

Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: Orangutan on October 27, 2011, 11:19:02 AM
No line skipping in video as it uses the whole sensor

That explains the two D5+ processors.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: kirillica on October 27, 2011, 11:20:11 AM
As usually, it would be nice to see real-life examples and not marketing bla-bla-bla )
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: CJRodgers on October 27, 2011, 11:51:15 AM
Haha, he seemed a bit stuck when asked why there is no clean hdmi out!
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: RichST on October 27, 2011, 12:51:45 PM
Well FINALLY they admit to line skipping, something we knew all along. If the Digic V is that much faster than the IV I don't think a second one will be necessary to process video.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: sandro on October 27, 2011, 01:48:38 PM
As usually, it would be nice to see real-life examples and not marketing bla-bla-bla )

totally agree! Sony said the same thing about their new processor, and look how videos are instead...
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: AG on October 27, 2011, 04:38:14 PM
Is it just me or  does it seem like whenever he gets probed about video, it comes across as "this is the photographers camera .... you want the videographers camera".

Maybe they ARE going to revamp the 5D3 line to make it purely video based. e.g. clean HDMI, headphone jack etc.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: SlothLovesChunk on October 27, 2011, 05:16:40 PM
Though there definitely seems to be some welcome improvements on their video features, it's troubling to see this artificial limiting of their tech...the fact that they refuse to simply remove the bitmap from the HDMI out (and the rep's stuttering reaction when asked about it) is perfect evidence. This fix would not require any additional board space, hardware, or technology...simply strike the one line of code for the bitmap feature in the firmware and you have a clean feed. This isn't like with the audio-vs-ethernet port (which I understand)...the whole "this is a stills camera" argument doesn't really apply...just ditch the bitmap. The way he responded, too...they thought this would step on the toes of the video camera department? So they're deliberately crippling the video features so you'll be forced to commit to a video camera for video or a stills camera for stills (or blow your savings on both), instead of accepting that this division in camera technology is history. RED makes hybrids. They're making EF lens mounts. On November 3rd, they're probably going to release an (actually) affordable hybrid camera that will probably destroy what Canon releases that day. We're sort of running out of reasons to stick with Canon and their table scraps. I've loved my Canon cameras, and I'll always buy their lenses, but I think if RED drops something under $7K, a lot of people are jumping ship. They actually seem to give a damn about delivering the best product they have. 
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on October 27, 2011, 05:30:31 PM
Though there definitely seems to be some welcome improvements on their video features, it's troubling to see this artificial limiting of their tech...the fact that they refuse to simply remove the bitmap from the HDMI out (and the rep's stuttering reaction when asked about it) is perfect evidence. This fix would not require any additional board space, hardware, or technology...simply strike the one line of code for the bitmap feature in the firmware and you have a clean feed. This isn't like with the audio-vs-ethernet port (which I understand)...the whole "this is a stills camera" argument doesn't really apply...just ditch the bitmap. The way he responded, too...they thought this would step on the toes of the video camera department? So they're deliberately crippling the video features so you'll be forced to commit to a video camera for video or a stills camera for stills (or blow your savings on both), instead of accepting that this division in camera technology is history. RED makes hybrids. They're making EF lens mounts. On November 3rd, they're probably going to release an (actually) affordable hybrid camera that will probably destroy what Canon releases that day. We're sort of running out of reasons to stick with Canon and their table scraps. I've loved my Canon cameras, and I'll always buy their lenses, but I think if RED drops something under $7K, a lot of people are jumping ship. They actually seem to give a damn about delivering the best product they have.

True they did nerf the tech on the camera to differentiate it from the upcoming video cameras, but I think your wrong about Red's upcoming product. Canon has a lot more resources than RED, and I think they have been planning for this showdown for a while, I'd be surprised if they allowed themselves to get upstaged.
 
It'd be funny if the two companies announced a merger(aka Canon buys Red out) on the 3rd.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: SlothLovesChunk on October 27, 2011, 05:53:00 PM
Though there definitely seems to be some welcome improvements on their video features, it's troubling to see this artificial limiting of their tech...the fact that they refuse to simply remove the bitmap from the HDMI out (and the rep's stuttering reaction when asked about it) is perfect evidence. This fix would not require any additional board space, hardware, or technology...simply strike the one line of code for the bitmap feature in the firmware and you have a clean feed. This isn't like with the audio-vs-ethernet port (which I understand)...the whole "this is a stills camera" argument doesn't really apply...just ditch the bitmap. The way he responded, too...they thought this would step on the toes of the video camera department? So they're deliberately crippling the video features so you'll be forced to commit to a video camera for video or a stills camera for stills (or blow your savings on both), instead of accepting that this division in camera technology is history. RED makes hybrids. They're making EF lens mounts. On November 3rd, they're probably going to release an (actually) affordable hybrid camera that will probably destroy what Canon releases that day. We're sort of running out of reasons to stick with Canon and their table scraps. I've loved my Canon cameras, and I'll always buy their lenses, but I think if RED drops something under $7K, a lot of people are jumping ship. They actually seem to give a damn about delivering the best product they have.

True they did nerf the tech on the camera to differentiate it from the upcoming video cameras, but I think your wrong about Red's upcoming product. Canon has a lot more resources than RED, and I think they have been planning for this showdown for a while, I'd be surprised if they allowed themselves to get upstaged.
 
It'd be funny if the two companies announced a merger(aka Canon buys Red out) on the 3rd.

Agreeeed. And a merger would be cute hahaha. Canon's definitely got the edge in manufacturing, R&D, marketing, but the advantages of being a massive corporation come with the drawbacks...they seem to have a pattern of simply making number-crunched business decisions, whereas Jannard kinda seems like a rogue millionaire who just enjoys the street fight and wants to pump out a really great camera...even if he doesn't turn profits. I think Canon's gonna get gut-punched on the 3rd...probably a bit cheaper than RED, but I think RED will finally close that "is it worth the extra cost?" gap with a much better and upgradeable camera. Guess this will be settled next week! :):):) Either outcome is great for us. I love the competition.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: AG on October 27, 2011, 07:02:50 PM
There is also the other possibility that people seem to gloss over.

The one of Canon is reducing its line and creating a more streamlined product portfolio.

Merge the 1D series into one PRO photography line camera.
Change the 5D to make it PRO video focused (this could be why they don't want to tread on the video departments feet, they have a video DSLR in the works and have not announced it of yet, why kill the sales of the 5D2 until the rumours are definite?)
Make the xxD series the top APSC camera and merge all the features of the 7D and 60D to make an epic 70D.
Make the xxxD series the basic limited camera, plastic body, limited features compared to the xxD etc
xxxxD series remains the older tech based my first DSLR.

I know that i will get bitched at my the fans of the 7D wanting a 7D2 etc about this but I'm not bagging the camera I'm talking about streamlining the products. Give the customers less choice but make the choices you have amazing compared to the competition. Sorta like how Apple compete with their products.

e.g.
You want a phone...we have the iPhone, broken into (canon line equivelent) 4S = 1DX, 4 = xxD, 3GS = xxxD and the touch = xxxxD.

Not exactly far fetched if you think about it like that. 

They can increase profit margins, refine their tooling and manufacturing and R+D departments because they won't have to work on as many models. Resulting in a much much better camera for us.

Who knows we may eventually see that 4K video Canon 5D3 HDSLR for under $3k everyone is dreaming of.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on October 27, 2011, 07:24:40 PM
There is also the other possibility that people seem to gloss over.

The one of Canon is reducing its line and creating a more streamlined product portfolio.

Merge the 1D series into one PRO photography line camera.
Change the 5D to make it PRO video focused, Who knows we may eventually see that 4K video Canon 5D3 HDSLR for under $3k everyone is dreaming of.

I just don't see them using the full frame sensor(you'd have line skipping problems again),  for a video camera @ $3k , so how are they gonna use a smaller sensor and still call it a 5D?. It doesn't make any sense. They need to differentiate from their existing cameras (by pricing above probably).  This means a new lineup.

Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: AG on October 27, 2011, 07:52:45 PM
I just don't see them using the full frame sensor(you'd have line skipping problems again),  for a video camera @ $3k , so how are they gonna use a smaller sensor and still call it a 5D?. It doesn't make any sense. They need to differentiate from their existing cameras (by pricing above probably).  This means a new lineup.

The problem is we don't know what the boffins in their white coats have been cooking up in the labs.

If you watch the video the rep mentions a few times that the 1DX is a PRO Photography DSLR camera, the video was extra.
He makes that point clear a few times.
This is why it sounds to me like they are going to try and release a PRO Video DSLR e.g. the next 5D model being that its been accepted unofficially by the industry as being the video DSLR of choice already.

You mention line skipping but as they said in the video that it has been reduced dramatically with the new sensor, remember that this is the Photo DSLR, it then makes me wonder what the Video version could achieve.

As for the smaller sensor, If you are shooting video @1080p you are pretty much using about 2MP, so increase that to 4K (4096×2160) and you will be around the 8.8MP mark.
The current 5D2 shoots Photos at 5616 x 3744 as we know is 21MP. even if that was reduced to 18MP like on the 1DX it can still more than cover the sensor range required for 4K.

Sure you may loose 3MP but you also gain a clearer image with better spacial resolution.

Think of it more like the CPU race that happened a few years ago, people were pushing for faster and faster CPUs, until we hit almost 4GHz, then suddenly the average CPU dropped to around the 2GHz speed. BUT they also added a second core, then quad core, octo core etc.
By reducing the speed of the core and making it do more with the cycles it has they managed to create much more productive CPUs.

If we then take that same analogy to camera sensors it seems that Canon are doing the similar thing now. Reduce the MP count but make the pixels that are there do a hell of a lot more.

If this means that we get much better quality images (even if slightly smaller in physical size) then that doesn't seem like an all too bad thing, especially when you can then blow the image up with less distortion.

Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: Flake on October 28, 2011, 03:02:44 AM
Dan Chung is a hard line & comitted Nikon user, so much so that the only reason he has a 5D MkII is for the video function, but even that is used with Nikon to EOS adaptors so he can use his beloved Nikon lenses.

I think I'll wait for a little less coloured review.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: Edwin Herdman on October 28, 2011, 03:24:00 AM
I realized a bit late that something I had been saying earlier is going to come true - if Canon has their way, that is - professional video users will now have a 1D body, and Canon's big benefit from releasing this body before any 5D refresh is that it costs more - but it's also a stronger offering overall than a 5D refresh is likely to be.

The one wild card is the treatment of HDMI - somebody mentions it's not a part of the 1D X and that seems troubling for video use.  On the other hand, the full-frame sensor sampling seems like a good tradeoff - it'd be interesting to see respective takeup rates by pro video if the 5D didn't have full sensor sampling but a good HDMI output (maybe I'm wrong in thinking that you can have one or the other; I would like there to be a bit of overhead left on the DIGIC 5+ CPUs for HDMI output but so far I don't see any solid evidence it'll happen).

I disagree with any reading of the situation that the 1D X will have less of a video focus than a 5D body - aside from the profit motive I mentioned above, the horsepower implied for this new baby should mean that one-upping it would be difficult indeed for a 5D body.

If nobody minds, I'm going to dedicate this last line to the gloriously mindless, crushing regulations of the EU.  (Never thought I'd write that, but the Euro debt crisis has sobered me up considerably.)
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: Flake on October 28, 2011, 03:44:07 AM
They're not mindless regulations, just because you don't understand the history of where regulations come from does not make them mindless.  Back in the day certain countries desided to flood Europe with cheap product, partly to destroy competition, when agreement couldn't be reached the EU protected industry & jobs by imposing high import duty which continues to this day.  It is this policy which has led to numerous far Eastern companied setting up European manufacturing bases creating millions of jobs.  You might not understand it - but it certainly isn't mindless regulation.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: Edwin Herdman on October 28, 2011, 03:45:14 AM
Well, the peanuts have sqeaked already.

I've taken courses on the EU, Flake ::)

First, you should understand that a great deal of legislation comes from the faceless European Commission, as I'm almost certain this would have.  Sometimes you can figure out what they're after; sometimes you can't.  The gap between EC members and "constituents" nearly makes the U.S. Electoral College seem like direct democracy in action, as well; there's essentially no way to make the EC accountable to the voting publics.

I'll readily admit that the number of times I've looked into this particular tax, I've still not found anything hinting at the intent of the law (guess I need to hit up Europa to see if I can find it.)  It's quite possible it was just another of the endless

I'm sure I could lecture you on trade wars - I would like to assume this is primarily a tax issue, not a competition issue.

Yet if it were about competition:

One, what business does the EU have provoking a trade war?  On whose behalf?  Philips?
Two, if you think this actually benefits EU consumers, you're even farther out to sea than I could have considered.  All this tax does for consumers is force them to pay an extra 5% for capable product; globally, we see that it is directly stunting the DSLR video movement.

The only reason I can think of that the large companies (Canon for example) don't complain loudly is that they have a vested interest in keeping their actual camcorder sales at appropriate levels - this is an artificial barrier to product entry in the markets targeted by pro video products.

All things considered, the sub-30 minute video limit is essentially inconsequential for use.  It is, however, a great example of the nasty outlook that gains traction from time to time within the EU (yes, this isn't the only area I know of where there are arbitrary and provincial squabbles over the marketing of items, as the "cohesiveness" of the EU body leads politicians to make decrees or fold over compromises that really should be much more broadly debated, at the very least).
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: nikkito on October 28, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
video video video...  >:(
i want to take photos. enough with the whole video stuff
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: DuLt on October 28, 2011, 12:03:14 PM
video video video...  >:(
i want to take photos. enough with the whole video stuff

At this point.. .forget that wish.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: ianhar on October 28, 2011, 12:04:47 PM
video video video...  >:(
i want to take photos. enough with the whole video stuff

Second it.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on October 28, 2011, 12:09:42 PM
The problem is we don't know what the boffins in their white coats have been cooking up in the labs.

If you watch the video the rep mentions a few times that the 1DX is a PRO Photography DSLR camera, the video was extra.
He makes that point clear a few times.
This is why it sounds to me like they are going to try and release a PRO Video DSLR e.g. the next 5D model being that its been accepted unofficially by the industry as being the video DSLR of choice already.

You mention line skipping but as they said in the video that it has been reduced dramatically with the new sensor, remember that this is the Photo DSLR, it then makes me wonder what the Video version could achieve.


I think the line skipping has been reduced(certainly in the 1Dx) because of better/more processors. They cant give a 5D this type of fire power in 4k or it will be essentially capable of faster fps of stills as the 1dX

You have a good point about the brand name of 5D for the video industry. Maybe we see a 5Dmkii-s that is video dedicated. However, I don't think that's in the lineup for nov 2.  I think  Canon needs to hit the Red scarlet from above and below in terms of pricing/features, and I think they will.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: nikkito on October 28, 2011, 12:17:48 PM
i mean, this is a Photo Camera, and all i hear is about video and video.
And don't misunderstand me. I like that we can have video as well, but like the canon guy in the video says, it seems they actually don't know what they are doing and where to go next.

Like we all know a good photo is one with a strong subject and it seems to me we can make an analogy with this whole thing as well.

We are talking about the 1D X, then Canon should concentrate on photography. If we were interested in Video we would have bought a video camera instead.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: HurtinMinorKey on October 28, 2011, 01:24:55 PM
i mean, this is a Photo Camera, and all i hear is about video and video.
And don't misunderstand me. I like that we can have video as well, but like the canon guy in the video says, it seems they actually don't know what they are doing and where to go next.

Like we all know a good photo is one with a strong subject and it seems to me we can make an analogy with this whole thing as well.

We are talking about the 1D X, then Canon should concentrate on photography. If we were interested in Video we would have bought a video camera instead.

I guess Canon has themselves in a bit of a pickle by putting video on a high end camera like this. It should be good, but at the same time, it's as if any resources dedicated to video on this camera are an insult to people who want the best possible pictures for the money.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: bp on October 28, 2011, 03:07:38 PM
i mean, this is a Photo Camera, and all i hear is about video and video.

WHAT?!?!  Dan Chung, who is a video shooter, made a video about the 1D X, and all he talks about is video?  Whats going on?!?!?!?! 

Did you really expect him to dive deeply into the stills side of the camera?  ::)
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: nikkito on October 28, 2011, 06:29:49 PM
i mean, this is a Photo Camera, and all i hear is about video and video.

WHAT?!?!  Dan Chung, who is a video shooter, made a video about the 1D X, and all he talks about is video?  Whats going on?!?!?!?! 

Did you really expect him to dive deeply into the stills side of the camera?  ::)

I'm not talking about this video in particular. This one just made me write that because I can't take it anymore :(
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: SlothLovesChunk on October 28, 2011, 06:37:10 PM
i mean, this is a Photo Camera, and all i hear is about video and video.

WHAT?!?!  Dan Chung, who is a video shooter, made a video about the 1D X, and all he talks about is video?  Whats going on?!?!?!?! 

Did you really expect him to dive deeply into the stills side of the camera?  ::)

+1
We can't expect more than incremental improvements in stills technology, but video tech is burgeoning.

Let's not forget we've been sort of scraping the ceiling on stills tech here for a long, long time...nobody really needs anything more than 12-15mp (we've had over 21 for years now). With RAW, we've got more DR than film. Not sure why everyone's looking for nightvision ISO in these cameras...if you want to shoot in moonlight, stop up to 1.4. AF is fine.
As far as stills go (and that's the majority of my work), I'm more than satisfied with my 5D and 7D. The video, however is nascent, and has a LOT of room for immediate improvement. That's why we're more concerned with this right now. The 5DII marked a legitimate revolution in filmmaking...giving us a cheap, fat sensor to put behind our amazing lenses. The stills revolution has long-since passed. Now it's just gonna be minor upgrades that we don't really need.

Only wanna shoot stills? Go grab one of the dozen or so professional-grade models that have already existed for a decade and shoot your heart out :)
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: neuroanatomist on October 28, 2011, 09:52:18 PM
Not sure why everyone's looking for nightvision ISO in these cameras...if you want to shoot in moonlight, stop up to 1.4. AF is fine.

I was trying to shoot by firelight earlier this evening. 5DII, 35mm f/1.4L, AF was not fine - it managed maybe one lock in 10 tries. Contrast detect (Live View) was a little better, 3-4 locks in 10 tries. No where near enough light in the VF to focus (but I didn't have the Eg-S installed, that might have helped).  Exposure simulation in Live View was inadequate for MF.

I needed ISO 12800 or 25600 for shutter speeds that were barely adequate for almost still or slowly moving subjects, even at f/1.4.

If the extra 1.5 stops of low light AF performance on the 1D X (vs. 5DII) is real, and if the suggested 2-stop ISO improvement is real (i.e. ISO 12800 on the 1D X is similar to ISO 3200 on the 5DII), that would have been a big help tonight...
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: astrocrab on October 29, 2011, 12:38:19 AM
If we were interested in Video we would have bought a video camera instead.

oh, really? why not to use canon a800 for still picture?
many of us are interested in high quality video not less than in high quality photoes.
Title: Re: Dan Chung Talks EOS-1D X Video
Post by: AG on October 29, 2011, 01:34:47 AM
If we were interested in Video we would have bought a video camera instead.

oh, really? why not to use canon a800 for still picture?
many of us are interested in high quality video not less than in high quality photoes.

Have to agree with astrocrab on this one.....kinda!

If you want to take 1/2 decent video then you take a dramatic hike in prices.

This was the beauty of EOS video, it allowed sensors closer to actual film dimensions at a fairly cheap price.
Plus it allows a very shallow depth of field that most budget videocameras can't even dream of getting.

As soon as you start buying "budget" video cameras that can do the same or similar style video of the EOS line your almost on a 1:1 $:$ outlay but with a camera twice the weight and 4x the bulk.