canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Canon General => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on April 24, 2014, 10:15:12 AM

Title: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Canon Rumors on April 24, 2014, 10:15:12 AM

TOKYO, April 24 (Reuters) - Canon Inc inched up its 2014 operating profit target on Thursday due to strong sales of office copiers and printers in the first quarter, and said a reshuffle of its camera line-up had also helped boost margins.


Canon said office equipment sales rose by 9.7 percent in the first quarter, helping lift operating profits by 51 percent to a higher-than-expected 82.6 billion yen ($806.76 million).


Camera sales, however, fell by 22 percent year-on-year in the quarter, as the world’s biggest camera maker struggled with the prevalence of high-quality smartphone cameras and a saturation in the high-end, single-lens-reflex camera market.


Chief Financial Officer Toshizo Tanaka told an earnings briefing that sales of pricier compact cameras had actually increased after Canon adjusted its camera production and line-up in the first quarter to meet customers’ demand for more sophisticated products.


But he said a recovery would take time.


“Determining whether we can achieve the growth we are hoping for will take some time,” Tanaka said. “Things are getting better in China and Europe, but it will take a while to see whether that will continue.”


Read full article


cr


Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: candyman on April 24, 2014, 10:41:52 AM
..........
<p>Camera sales, however, fell by 22 percent year-on-year in the quarter, as the world’s biggest camera maker struggled with the prevalence of high-quality smartphone cameras and a saturation in the high-end, single-lens-reflex camera market.</p>
..........


Is that also the conclusion of Canon or just Reuters?
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Lightmaster on April 24, 2014, 10:42:50 AM
Quote
Chief Financial Officer Toshizo Tanaka told an earnings briefing that sales of pricier compact cameras had actually increased after Canon adjusted its camera production and line-up in the first quarter to meet customers’ demand for more sophisticated products

what does that mean?

to me it looks like canon has done nothing different then the past years.
new powershots, same old minimal rebel updates, a 60D update called 70D.

what has canon adjusted? ???

are the P&S really are more sophisticated or has canon released the 7D MK2 and nobody told me?  :o

is he talking about the EOS M?

or is reuters mixing things up here and they talked to a fuji manager?


im puzzled.....
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Dylan777 on April 24, 2014, 10:56:01 AM
Quote
Chief Financial Officer Toshizo Tanaka told an earnings briefing that sales of pricier compact cameras had actually increased after Canon adjusted its camera production and line-up in the first quarter to meet customers’ demand for more sophisticated products

what does that mean?

to me it looks like canon has done nothing different then the past years.
new powershots, same old minimal rebel updates, a 60D update called 70D.

what has canon adjusted? ???

are the P&S really are more sophisticated or has canon released the 7D MK2 and nobody told me?  :o

or is he talking about the EOS M?

im puzzled.....

It means compact FF mirrorless with fast AF + decent pancake lenses... ;D
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Lightmaster on April 24, 2014, 10:57:44 AM
Quote from: Dylan777 link=topic=20652.msg390479#msg390479
It means compact FF mirrorless with fast AF + decent pancake lenses... ;D

S___.. must be asia only.
they get all the good stuff like the new EOS M2.....
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Dylan777 on April 24, 2014, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: Dylan777 link=topic=20652.msg390479#msg390479
It means compact FF mirrorless with fast AF + decent pancake lenses... ;D

S___.. must be asia only.
they get all the good stuff like the new EOS M2.....

Current M2 shouldn't be considered as "good stuff" - that just me ;)
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: BL on April 24, 2014, 12:37:47 PM
Misery loves company I suppose...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/07/nikon-earnings-idUSL3N0IR39F20131107?type=companyNews (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/07/nikon-earnings-idUSL3N0IR39F20131107?type=companyNews)

(Granted they have not published Q4 financials.)
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Canon 14-24 on April 24, 2014, 12:59:07 PM
Camera sales, however, fell by 22 percent year-on-year in the quarter, as the world’s biggest camera maker struggled with the prevalence of high-quality smartphone cameras and a saturation in the high-end, single-lens-reflex camera market.</p>

More like it struggled because yet with the "prevalence of high-quality smartphone cameras and saturation of the dSLR" they still for the past 2-3 years continue to focus the "majority" of their releases on more powershot, rebel, and kit lens garbage.

Doesn't make sense does it? They mention smartphone entry and saturation of dslrs yet continue to fuel product releases and resources for these markets - ignoring the upper tier segment with the exception of a 24-70 2.8 II and 200-400 1.4x and we wonder why Canon is struggling. So much for the "dual pixel innovative technology" on the 70d to save the Camera division sales...not driving it so much eh?
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: drs on April 24, 2014, 01:12:44 PM
Smart-phones as excuse? I have only a very subjective perspective on that.

If people get a camera in their phone -- and go to FB or G+ to find out how much they use it: One would think they got hooked up with photography (not everyone of course.) But if Canon can't obviously see that this is the entry-drug and pick people up from there, they might have shift their attention a little bit. Why buy a camera that has less options?

Besides that, they make great lenses -- but it feels just very expensive to me -- compared to other companies.

End of subjective mode. ;o)
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: AcutancePhotography on April 24, 2014, 01:40:36 PM
Just as a data point, take Flickr,  Look at the top cameras referenced number of members.


https://www.flickr.com/cameras (https://www.flickr.com/cameras)
1.  iphone 5
2.  iphone 5s
3.  iphone 4s
4.  iphone 4
5.  Canon T3i

The impact of camera phones on photography can't be ignored. People need a reason to buy a Canikontax camera instead of just using their iphone.  I would imagine for the vast majority of people who take photographs, the camera phone is "good enough".   That has to have an effect on camera manufacturers.
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: blanddragon on April 24, 2014, 02:30:03 PM
Just as a data point, take Flickr,  Look at the top cameras referenced number of members.


https://www.flickr.com/cameras (https://www.flickr.com/cameras)
1.  iphone 5
2.  iphone 5s
3.  iphone 4s
4.  iphone 4
4.  Canon T3i

The impact of camera phones on photography can't be ignored. People need a reason to buy a Canikontax camera instead of just using their iphone.  I would imagine for the vast majority of people who take photographs, the camera phone is "good enough".   That has to have an effect on camera manufacturers.

Hardly statistically significant since my Mk III doesn't have a Flicker shortcut on it I post less.
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: that1guyy on April 24, 2014, 02:33:58 PM
Canon is doomed.
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: cep500 on April 24, 2014, 02:40:00 PM
Canon's DSLR market would get a boost from me if they would just produce an offering that's a logical successor for my 40D. The 70D isn't it. Still waiting, waiting, waiting for a 7DMkII ....
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Lightmaster on April 24, 2014, 03:06:41 PM
Just as a data point, take Flickr,  Look at the top cameras referenced number of members.


https://www.flickr.com/cameras (https://www.flickr.com/cameras)
1.  iphone 5
2.  iphone 5s
3.  iphone 4s
4.  iphone 4
4.  Canon T3i

The impact of camera phones on photography can't be ignored. People need a reason to buy a Canikontax camera instead of just using their iphone.  I would imagine for the vast majority of people who take photographs, the camera phone is "good enough".   That has to have an effect on camera manufacturers.

Hardly statistically significant since my Mk III doesn't have a Flicker shortcut on it I post less.

aha.... so you are more relevant than the statistics?

it shows that mobile phones are way more used for social media photo sharing then any other cameras.

and what do most people today do with their photos?
exactly.... they post them on facebook, flickr and co.

most teenager don´t want an extra camera. it´s just more to carry.
so yes, the statistics shows the trend.

Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: jeffa4444 on April 24, 2014, 03:12:25 PM
The slowing down of sales are a sign of saturation at the top end where DSLRs are concerned the iPhone et al replaced the point & shoot cameras.

The camera makers all of them have got sloppy merely increasing MP is not really cutting it (yes I know some have Wi-Fi or GPS etc).

The sensor tech needs a big jump forwards to really give seperation and physical design needs new ideas after all modern manufacturing can more or less create any shape. As in cars niche models designed to suit wedding photographers, landscape photographers, press photographers etc. so compromises are noty made under one size fits all (DSLRs have hardly changed the basic shape since the first came out).
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Efka76 on April 24, 2014, 03:52:38 PM
Canon camera sales are mainly dropping due to these main reasons:

1) Smartphones are killing P&S market. What is Canon's response: do the same thing as every year, i.e. issue  new model P&S cameras. I would think that Canon should abandon this dying P&S market and concentrate on more advanced cameras.

2) There are practically no news in advanced DSLR area and market became saturated. Canon is still milking DSLR market by manufacturing the same products and customers do not have any options even if they want to upgrade their current camera into new one. e.g. I have Canon 7D and waiting for 7D II for long time. It's a real shame to milk the same dying cow for so many years. Canon has all required money for R&D but we see only limited inventions from its side. One invention (dual pixel technology) is really not ground braking.

3) Canon is losing and will loose significant market to the third party lens manufacturers such as Sigma and Canon. We see significantly improved quality in both these firms and quite significant increase in their lens sales. Of course, Canon is still a king in fixed focal length lenses (tele), but their price is enormous and not affordable to many consumers. From other side, its is really a shame for Canon not to upgrade the most popular lenses  (e.g. 50 mm., which is produced for more than 20 years). Come on, Canon, you can really do better. If the same trend continues Canon will lose very significant lenses market to competitors.

4) Lack of innovations: when I look around I here when people talk about Tamron and Sigma lenses, Sony, Fuji, Olympus mirrorless cameras, Pentax medium format cameras, etc. Canon is currently leading company with biggest profits and very significant loyal customer base (loyalty is due to expensive lenses, which were bought some time ago). If you do not introduce new and expensive technology and still produce large quantities of goods, your R&D costs are recovered long time ago. Canon is really able to reduce prices for APS-C and full frame cameras but they are still milking the same old cow :)

Also, I see other trends that many newspapers and mass media are laying off photographers o even suggesting to journalists to make pictures with iPhones. I see the trend that in the nearest future only serious hobbyists will buy DSLR cameras, however, number of such people is constantly decreasing.
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: RGomezPhotos on April 24, 2014, 04:45:45 PM
I agree with the general vibe here...  Canon hasn't given a reason to buy their cameras. The only camera REALLY worth buying was the 1DX. The 5DMKIII was a marginal upgrade. Many people said if you owned a 5DMKII, you may not need the upgrade. Only Wedding photographers would really want upgrade their 5D's...  The new Rebel and SL1 are cool. But that's it in the DSLR.

With the new Nikon D800S on the horizon and some of the Sony mirrorless cameras, Canon really needs to get their act together. Fuji mirrorless is quite amazing as well. All the news and cool and new news is coming from these guys.

That Nikon D800S has me salivating....
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: jeffa4444 on April 24, 2014, 05:22:26 PM
Actually Mirrorless cameras have increased market share in Europe in 2014 (after slightly falling in 2013) cameras like the Olympus OM-D E-M1 & OM-D E-M10 are selling well and they have more new lenses, Fuji X-Series cameras are selling well but the same is not true of the Canon EOS-M with its limited lens inventory (unless you use an additional adaptor which is expensive).

The US has not really taken to Mirrorless like the Far East & Europe as someone who has both Olympus Pen and Canon DSLRs I can see the merits in both.
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: lilmsmaggie on April 24, 2014, 06:51:27 PM
In light of this report, makes you wonder why Canon is taking measures to enforce its MAP instead of creating incentives to consumers by offering more rebate and discount sales events.

How is holding the line on prices   ??? via MAP enforcement, gonna improve the sales numbers ... what am I missing     ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Canon 14-24 on April 24, 2014, 07:09:13 PM
I will forgive Canon for its lack of "worthy" dslr/lens and "innovation" releases these past 2-3 years (and their lack of a 14-24), if they surprise with an entry into the medium format segment within a similar price range of Pentax's 645z with a better 80mm and ultra wide angle lens than Pentax's equivalent.
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: emko on April 24, 2014, 08:02:57 PM
I wish i could see what Canon has in R&D ,i really think they have something very advanced but they want to milk small updates on each camera release at one point they will run out of what to update and finally give us a intervalometer in camera :)
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: sanj on April 24, 2014, 11:25:16 PM
A 7D2 would give a shot in the arm. Possibly
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: CarlTN on April 25, 2014, 04:13:47 AM
Well if Canon bring a full frame mirrorless camera in 2014, and it does not have major innovation, I will be disappointed.  I don't think we need an "EOS M full frame".  I would prefer to see a new studio 1 series (or 3 series!) with a high performing new sensor.  Would it sell well?  I don't know.  It might be just what studio and fashion shooters have been asking for, especially those that gave up on Canon and started using the D800.  Wedding pros might want it, but they're pretty happy with the 5D3.
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: sdsr on April 25, 2014, 05:03:12 PM
I agree with the general vibe here...  Canon hasn't given a reason to buy their cameras. The only camera REALLY worth buying was the 1DX. The 5DMKIII was a marginal upgrade. Many people said if you owned a 5DMKII, you may not need the upgrade. Only Wedding photographers would really want upgrade their 5D's...  The new Rebel and SL1 are cool. But that's it in the DSLR.

With the new Nikon D800S on the horizon and some of the Sony mirrorless cameras, Canon really needs to get their act together. Fuji mirrorless is quite amazing as well. All the news and cool and new news is coming from these guys.

That Nikon D800S has me salivating....

I get your general point - which is in part why I own an Olympus OM-D and Sony A7r in addition to Canon stuff - but  your opening sentence surely only applies to the sort of picky consumer who reads sites like this.  Canon makes the cheapest DSLRs out there, and they're significantly cheaper than the best mirrorless cameras (a Rebel kit is cheaper than just about any decent mirrorless body with no lens attached); the same is true for Nikon's entry level dslrs.  Presumably that's why they're ubiquitous (in the time since I've bought my OM-D a year ago I think I've seen someone carrying one twice; I saw someone using a Fuji Xsomething for the first time last week).  Such reasons may not matter much to those who read canon/nikonrumors, but it still seems to be a pretty powerful reason and allows Canon and Nikon to carry on being boring.  I've no idea how long they'll be able to continue doing so, but so far the announcements we keep reading online that the dslr is all but dead seem either a tad premature or to confuse what ought to be with what is.

It could well be that stand-alone cameras will end up being niche products as smartphone cameras continue to improve (just as it's become hard to find a CD player that does nothing more than play CDs).  It doesn't seem unlikely that the overwhelming use to which photos are put is illustrating posts on facebook etc; and cellphone photos are good enough for that and, perhaps even more important, they're small and always with you.   I know more than a few people who have asked my advice on what camera to buy for whom the single most important characteristic of a camera is that it be tiny; the fact that it will almost certainly take worse photos doesn't matter - and for them it probably doesn't matter because they'll never view them in a context where the differences are obvious.   
Title: Re: Canon Profits Grow in 2014 on Equipment Sales & Reshuffling of Camera Business
Post by: Skulker on April 25, 2014, 07:26:08 PM
I agree with the general vibe here...  Canon hasn't given a reason to buy their cameras. The only camera REALLY worth buying was the 1DX. The 5DMKIII was a marginal upgrade. Many people said if you owned a 5DMKII, you may not need the upgrade. Only Wedding photographers would really want upgrade their 5D's...  The new Rebel and SL1 are cool. But that's it in the DSLR.

With the new Nikon D800S on the horizon and some of the Sony mirrorless cameras, Canon really needs to get their act together. Fuji mirrorless is quite amazing as well. All the news and cool and new news is coming from these guys.

That Nikon D800S has me salivating....

well I am very happy to have got a 5D3, it's a great second body to my 1Dx. So I'm happy and I guess canon are happy to have sold then.

If your so worked up about how fantastic the Nikon is you should get one. Hopefully that will make you happy, and Nikon need all the sales they can get.