canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: jeffa4444 on August 23, 2014, 02:11:38 PM

Title: 6D MKII
Post by: jeffa4444 on August 23, 2014, 02:11:38 PM
All the talk is of the impending 7D MKII and whether the 5D MKIII will be upgraded if the 7D MKII has new sensor tech.

Well here is my wish list for the 6D MKII its not long:-

Same ground glass set-up as 5D MKIII - the removable one now gets dirt behind it

Joystick like the 7D / 5D MKIII etc. - the joypad is slower to use

19 cross point AF points - useful for flying birds, cars, planes etc.

Tilting LCD screen - Like the type Olympus use which is great for high or low shots



Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: dgatwood on August 23, 2014, 02:34:56 PM

I'd settle for more AF points.  Then again, I'd consider a 5D Mark IV if it had in-body Wi-Fi and GPS, less banding, and a more sensitive center point.  Then again, what I'd really like is that plus DPAF.  :D

And a pony.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Ruined on August 23, 2014, 04:17:38 PM
Exactly the same camera with at least 70D phase AF, but retaining the interchangeable focus screens of the 6D.

Taking out the interchangeable focus screen would be a sure way to get me NOT to upgrade :)
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: sagittariansrock on August 23, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
I'll settle for any 6D II, don't care about the features as long as it allows me to buy the current 6D (which will suit me fine) for a lower price...
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Khufu on August 23, 2014, 10:13:56 PM
I've seen the current incarnation of the 6D produce wonderful shots of flying cars...
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: pwp on August 23, 2014, 11:04:00 PM
I've seen the current incarnation of the 6D produce wonderful shots of flying cars...
Now we know that a 6D must have been what they used to shoot the flying car sequences in the Harry Potter movies.
The 6D's reputation is airborne..

-pw
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: crashpc on August 24, 2014, 03:32:17 AM
I'll settle for any 6D II, don't care about the features as long as it allows me to buy the current 6D (which will suit me fine) for a lower price...
Same here. It could push me to jump on FF when they lower the price a bit.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Marsu42 on August 24, 2014, 03:33:22 AM
Well here is my wish list for the 6D MKII its not long:

Keep wishing, my guess is that the current 6d will stay around for quite a while like it is. The longer Canon sells it, the more profit they make after getting back their r&d money and I guess longer production also means lower production price. If anything, they'll lower the 6d1's price further instead of replacing it, the cheap construction means it's meant to be flexible for further discounts.

And the thing keeps selling and will continue to do so as it's essentially a good sensor in something build around it that doesn't matter too much. Unless there is a serious upgrade in sensor tech, imho Canon won't replace it. And if they do a leap in tech, they'll first put it into their flagship cameras (7d, 1d, 5d), so until it trickles down to the 6d it'll be quite a while.

The last possibility for pressure to upgrade 6d1->6d2 would be Nikon or Sony, but Canon has demonstrated that they don't really care about the competition's specs as long as they've got a similarly priced offer at all: Many people are tied to Canon by their gear or years of usability experience with this system.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: fran on August 24, 2014, 06:22:17 AM
All the talk is of the impending 7D MKII and whether the 5D MKIII will be upgraded if the 7D MKII has new sensor tech.

19 cross point AF points - useful for flying birds, cars, planes etc.



A question I've been asking myself for a looong time now:

Where does someone who seemingly can't afford the 5DIII (which has probably all the AF capabilities you need) get any lens that is fast enough for sports and bird photography??

No offense, I am also a proud owner of the 6D - but as a hybrid photographer/videographer who refuses to use artificial lighting when nature provides a much more beautiful (be it more dim...) version, and plans on taking his camera up into the air in the near future, it was really all about low light capabilities, plus the light body came in handy. ;)

Knowing and loving MF, I never really use AF for stills, and even get used lenses with defect AF if it makes the price work.
I was really happy that Canon provided a remarkable sensor, and put it in a simple setup (even though I'd wish for the CF card speed - no ML Raw possible...).
I think there is hardly a way to upgrade the 6D without compromising it's concept (don't forget that every model has one): It's an "entry-level" full frame DSLR. They'd steal their own customers if they gave people more reasons to buy a 6D instead of a 5D... I kinda feel like the 6D is a "one time" offer for us to get a very good FF DSLR for a very reasonable price, no updates required (because they took it very close to the Prosumer level if you ask me).

Yet, updates may and very likely will come as time progresses and the sensor (which is really the pro part in this camera) gets outdated, which may happen within very few years now that everybody's heavily developing to keep up with certain revolutionary releases from other manufacturers... ;)
But for the time being, I think competing with exactly those revolutions is their greatest concern, and that's where the updates will be - they want to keep their C line seperated from their DSLRs (to justify their high-priced C line), but 4K is (soon going to be) everywhere, so there WILL be a 5D with 4K, a 7D with 4K (maybe not the 7DII) and so on. It's going to be the standard of tomorrow, even though many "pros" still cling to the muddy and blurry 1080p, trying to convince themselves that they're not behind on technology... ^^ I think producing a music video that can't hold up on a big screen is just sad... sorry, went off topic there.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Chisox2335 on August 24, 2014, 07:37:38 AM

I'd settle for more AF points.  Then again, I'd consider a 5D Mark IV if it had in-body Wi-Fi and GPS, less banding, and a more sensitive center point.  Then again, what I'd really like is that plus DPAF.  :D

And a pony.

If I could send in my 6d and a check for 200-300 for canon to even put in the 70d's AF system I'd be very pleased.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Khufu on August 24, 2014, 09:28:34 AM
For a while I had the 6D in mind as a "ASAP" investment to fill two niches; smaller & lighter walkabout/documentary camera (in that I love shooting nice pics of the people at the events and occasions I'm a part of, Birthday dinners, hikes with friends or groups, holidays and daytrips - more so than the architecture, people-less land/cityscapes etc)
But also as a second FF to accompany the 5D3 for "proper" event photography gigs...

For the first niche I'm pretty sure the a7 wins, hands down - to buy here in the UK on the grey market it's cheaper for an a7 than a 6D, making it the cheapest AND most compact current FF, with only a second hand 5D being a cheaper FF option - is this reflected elsewhere around Europe and Continental America?

The lame thing is the lack of affordable AF native lenses, with the more expensive, higher-spec-processing adapters still apparently being way slower than using a native EF on an EOS body...

It's like I really want to grab an a7 for so many reasons but they're still being muppets with the lenses... It would be awesome to shoot the EF 100/2 or the affordable, fast Sigmas with NO back/front focusing on a compact FF system... I'm waffling. I'm torn between the 6D and the a7. Anyone want to give me more reasons to doubt everything, ever? Or perhaps prompt Canon to make me a Compact System FF, DPAF, EVF with Focus Peaking wee treat of a camera that's ready to purchase for under £850 on the grey market within, say, 2 months?

Man, I'm turning into one of those whiny, demanding CR users - I should start raging and threaten to jump ship to Nikon...
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Sith Zombie on August 24, 2014, 10:25:48 AM
I'm thinking we'll see a 6D mkii around fall next year. The original will be 3 years old then and thats 'around' the usual age that the prosumer models [xxD] get an update. The 5Dmkiii replaced the Mkii in around 3 and a half years [I think], so I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a 6D update slightly earlier than the 5D2 to 5D3 cycle.

I also think the update will be very modest but with a few careful tweaks, canon can build this camera to pull in the crowd that aren't quite convinced about the current 6D and even give current owners something to upgrade to.

Example:
All specs the same as current 6d except...
Sensor: 22mp dual pixel.
AF: 11 point, all cross type.
FPS: 5.5 fps.
Screen: adjustable touch screen.

Even if they don't improve actual sensor performance [the current 6d sensor is still amazing], a small mp bump or the inclusion of dual pixel technology will still be a nice step up.

How many people were put off by the fact the 6d has one cross type sensor?? Solve this by upgrading them all to cross type but by keeping the amount of points the same, it keeps the camera away from the 'need the best af 5dmk3, 5dmk4, 7dmk2 market' but still provides a huge upgrade to the current 6D.

A small increase in fps will be expected but it will still be one of the slowest shooters in the line up. [the 5dmk4 will probably be rocking around 7 fps] The key point is that you'll be getting 'near 5dmk3 speeds' for a fraction of the price.

Touch screen would be welcome by some, especially if the camera has a dual pixel sensor. This will improve live view af to no end. An adjustable screen would just be another nice feature that it would have over the original.

So for little effort Canon can make a great camera that won't encroach upon other models but is a worthwhile improvement on the original. I think this approach would work even if they didn't do much to update the sensor, as the biggest compliant about the original [af] has been addressed.
 
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Chisox2335 on August 24, 2014, 11:30:11 AM
For a while I had the 6D in mind as a "ASAP" investment to fill two niches; smaller & lighter walkabout/documentary camera (in that I love shooting nice pics of the people at the events and occasions I'm a part of, Birthday dinners, hikes with friends or groups, holidays and daytrips - more so than the architecture, people-less land/cityscapes etc)
But also as a second FF to accompany the 5D3 for "proper" event photography gigs...

For the first niche I'm pretty sure the a7 wins, hands down - to buy here in the UK on the grey market it's cheaper for an a7 than a 6D, making it the cheapest AND most compact current FF, with only a second hand 5D being a cheaper FF option - is this reflected elsewhere around Europe and Continental America?

The lame thing is the lack of affordable AF native lenses, with the more expensive, higher-spec-processing adapters still apparently being way slower than using a native EF on an EOS body...

It's like I really want to grab an a7 for so many reasons but they're still being muppets with the lenses... It would be awesome to shoot the EF 100/2 or the affordable, fast Sigmas with NO back/front focusing on a compact FF system... I'm waffling. I'm torn between the 6D and the a7. Anyone want to give me more reasons to doubt everything, ever? Or perhaps prompt Canon to make me a Compact System FF, DPAF, EVF with Focus Peaking wee treat of a camera that's ready to purchase for under £850 on the grey market within, say, 2 months?

Man, I'm turning into one of those whiny, demanding CR users - I should start raging and threaten to jump ship to Nikon...

You're already threatening to jump ship to sony.... ;)
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: MLfan3 on August 24, 2014, 05:11:02 PM
after selling all my D810 D800E stuff,I was about to buy a Sony A99v or another 6D, but decided to wait a few more weeks.
I love my 6D but I would prefer to get its successor if Canon is about to announce it.
I am also very curious about the a99v successor with the new A77ii type of super AF(I consider it the best AF in the game right now).

I hope the 6D mk2 gets feature set of below:
1 about 28mp ff sensor with one full stop better DR at base ISO.
2 a good EVF  maybe one in the A7R or better.
3 touch screen UI in addition to current UI mechanical UI of the 6D.
4 lighter than the 70D.
5 dual SD slots with new UHS-2 support.
6 better improved video with 4k at 60P support , headphone jack,etc.
7 ic voice recorder for interview works with clients.
8 -5 EV center AF sensitivity.

I think the A99v is the current best all around FF camera, but if there is its successor around the corner, I will wait for it.
I know some narrow minded people (mostly sports and wedding pros and old guys with some film experience) never accept anything other than Full sized huge cameras like D800 , 5D with mirror, and condescendingly tell others how unseriously you might be taken if you are not shooting on a huge D-SLR with the dated OVF tech, but any rational people see the OVF is quickly becoming a thing of the last century thing, I think after shooting a Sony A7R or A99 kind of cameras for a month or longer , there is no way going back to the film era finder system.
Further more , the PDAF is dated, it is not accurate enough for high resolution sensor, thus for high resolution work the A7R is the better camera than the over hyped flawed camera like the D810 /D800E with left AF and white dots thermal noise issue.
The CDAF with some kind of subject distance detection system is the future, and it is much more accurate than the best PDAF on mirror from Nikon , Canon or Pentax.
The CDAF system does not need AF fine tune or MAFA.
I think anyone just hate EVF and mirrorless AF should try out the A7s a month or even better the Panasonic GH4, the AF of the GH4 is much better than anything from Canon Nikon for almost everything, maybe except for sports.    The A7S and GH4 can AF  even in -4EV light level, the D810 and the 5D3 AF reliably in -1 EV light level, nothing close to the A7s. 

So if Canon wants to stay at the top in this game, Canon must invent some sort of new AF /EVF tech and needs to actually introduce it in a new body(very soon), not just patenting it or announcing development of new type of AF tech or sensor tech(but has to show it to us)
 
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: AcutancePhotography on August 25, 2014, 09:46:18 AM
Exactly the same camera with at least 70D phase AF, but retaining the interchangeable focus screens of the 6D.

Taking out the interchangeable focus screen would be a sure way to get me NOT to upgrade :)

I wish that more camera manufactuers offered interchangeable focus screens.  Most shooters don't need one, but for those who do, they really do.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: DRR on August 25, 2014, 09:53:22 AM

My guess based on the current 6D is that after the 5D IV gets introduced, the 5D III goes away for a few months or a year, and then much of the base camera of the 5D III gets re-introduced as the 6D II.

So the build may go to a plastic body, it might get wifi and gps, they may adjust control layout a bit, they may put a DIGIC 6 in there instead of a 5+, etc. but they can recoup even more R&D cost by repackaging all existing technologies for a new market.

Being the low end of the Canon FF line I don't see that the 6D couldn't benefit from trickle down technologies - I don't think it needs to be a new camera line with new features for a distinct market. It's not cost efficient for Canon to do so.



Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Marsu42 on August 25, 2014, 02:42:12 PM
My guess based on the current 6D is that after the 5D IV gets introduced, the 5D III goes away for a few months or a year, and then much of the base camera of the 5D III gets re-introduced as the 6D II.

I very much doubt this because there is an *absolute* "good enough" to shoot most scenes. The current 6d already does ok for a lot of them, but there's still a lot of incentive to upgrade to the "real deal" 5d3. If the 5d3 is the baseline, Canon would pull a rabbit out of the hat to make 6d2(=5d3)->5d4 as attractive.

Much more likely they cripple the 6d2 where it hurts like they removed spot af from 7d->70d (even though it's the same af array), they're rather good at that :-p
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: rrcphoto on August 25, 2014, 03:23:17 PM
All the talk is of the impending 7D MKII and whether the 5D MKIII will be upgraded if the 7D MKII has new sensor tech.

Well here is my wish list for the 6D MKII its not long:-

Same ground glass set-up as 5D MKIII - the removable one now gets dirt behind it

Joystick like the 7D / 5D MKIII etc. - the joypad is slower to use

19 cross point AF points - useful for flying birds, cars, planes etc.

Tilting LCD screen - Like the type Olympus use which is great for high or low shots

I think the best you can expect is for it to follow the ergonomics and frame of the 70D/80D.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: dgatwood on August 25, 2014, 03:53:12 PM
I very much doubt this because there is an *absolute* "good enough" to shoot most scenes. The current 6d already does ok for a lot of them, but there's still a lot of incentive to upgrade to the "real deal" 5d3. If the 5d3 is the baseline, Canon would pull a rabbit out of the hat to make 6d2(=5d3)->5d4 as attractive.

Sure, the 5D Mark III has better autofocus in most circumstances, higher resolution, and faster max FPS.  On the other hand, you could also say that there's a lot of incentive to upgrade from the 5D Mark III to the "real deal" 6D.  It has lower and more consistent dark noise levels (which means you can brighten it by more stops before it becomes unusable), better ultra-low-light focusing (at least with the center point), GPS, Wi-Fi....

Either one is an upgrade, depending on your needs.  Canon would do well to ensure that the hypothetical 5D Mark IV is in every way more capable than the hypothetical 6D Mark II, not just better at some things.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: pulseimages on August 26, 2014, 01:37:09 AM
after selling all my D810 D800E stuff,I was about to buy a Sony A99v or another 6D, but decided to wait a few more weeks.

Why would you sell your Nikon D810 and D800E and keep the 6D?
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: moreorless on August 26, 2014, 07:21:35 AM
Another factor maybe what Nikon does with the rumoured D750, its seemingly likely now that will have the same AF as the D810 which means a full spread of AF points. If that camera is also D810 sized it maybe less of an issue but rumours thus far point to it being smaller.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Ruined on August 26, 2014, 09:28:36 AM
I very much doubt this because there is an *absolute* "good enough" to shoot most scenes. The current 6d already does ok for a lot of them, but there's still a lot of incentive to upgrade to the "real deal" 5d3. If the 5d3 is the baseline, Canon would pull a rabbit out of the hat to make 6d2(=5d3)->5d4 as attractive.

Sure, the 5D Mark III has better autofocus in most circumstances, higher resolution, and faster max FPS.  On the other hand, you could also say that there's a lot of incentive to upgrade from the 5D Mark III to the "real deal" 6D.  It has lower and more consistent dark noise levels (which means you can brighten it by more stops before it becomes unusable), better ultra-low-light focusing (at least with the center point), GPS, Wi-Fi....

Either one is an upgrade, depending on your needs.  Canon would do well to ensure that the hypothetical 5D Mark IV is in every way more capable than the hypothetical 6D Mark II, not just better at some things.

And you can change focus screens on a 6D, which is a very important feature for professionals - they purposely gimped the 5D3 to prevent this, to make 1DX look more attractive.  Whichever has interchangeable focus screens (6D2 or 5D4) is where my money goes next as I can't justify two 1DXs (I like to have matching bodies).
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: andrewflo on August 26, 2014, 10:00:58 AM
Agree that we likely won't see a Mark II for quite some time.

Buuut while we're dreaming :)

• Dual pixel AF
• 19 point all cross type AF
• Articulating touch screen LCD
• 1080p at 60fps
• Native ISO 100-51,200, boost 50-204,800
• No low-pass filter

Given the >1 year ETA of a Mark II, I think these specs are semi realistic. What do you think?
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: bereninga on August 26, 2014, 11:33:39 AM
Agree that we likely won't see a Mark II for quite some time.

Buuut while we're dreaming :)

• Dual pixel AF
• 19 point all cross type AF
• Articulating touch screen LCD
• 1080p at 60fps
• Native ISO 100-51,200, boost 50-204,800
• No low-pass filter

Given the >1 year ETA of a Mark II, I think these specs are semi realistic. What do you think?


I sadly doubt that many AF points. It'll probably the same amount, just all cross-type. But 19 would def be welcomed. It SHOULD be as good as the 70D, but currently even the t5i has more cross-type AF points. I'd prefer no articulating touch screen. The rest would be sweet!
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Foxdude on August 26, 2014, 01:13:37 PM
I'm shooting with 6D now, and I'm very happy with it. Only thing I'd like to change to mk2, is focus points. More focus points would be very welcome with more spread, and please make all of them cross-type. Center focus point on 6D is great now, others work well in good light, in dim light not so well..
I don't need/care about fps, focus screens or wi-fi.
Double SD slot would be nice though...
Iso levels are very good now, but of course it can be still improved :)
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: ck5dmkiii on August 26, 2014, 02:08:02 PM
It would be a much more attractive option if it had the joystick for focus point selection. I honestly like a lot of what the current 6D offers. The joystick is truly my only real complaint.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Marsu42 on August 26, 2014, 02:29:49 PM
It would be a much more attractive option if it had the joystick for focus point selection. I honestly like a lot of what the current 6D offers.

Personally, I'd say a joystick for 11 af points (10 non-crosspoint, one only crosspoint at f4+) is overkill - these few points are selected quickly with the multicontroller. Coming from the 60d, I feel very at home with the right-hand only layout of the 6d.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Foxdude on August 26, 2014, 02:35:20 PM
It would be a much more attractive option if it had the joystick for focus point selection. I honestly like a lot of what the current 6D offers.

Personally, I'd say a joystick for 11 af points (10 non-crosspoint, one only crosspoint at f4+) is overkill - these few points are selected quickly with the multicontroller. Coming from the 60d, I feel very at home with the right-hand only layout of the 6d.

+1   Coming from 450D, ergonomics in 6D are also very great for my hands. Multicontroller is easy and fast to use. Haven't use joystick though...
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Tugela on August 26, 2014, 03:32:27 PM
4K or 4 fail  ;D
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: ck5dmkiii on August 28, 2014, 12:17:39 AM
It would be a much more attractive option if it had the joystick for focus point selection. I honestly like a lot of what the current 6D offers.

Personally, I'd say a joystick for 11 af points (10 non-crosspoint, one only crosspoint at f4+) is overkill - these few points are selected quickly with the multicontroller. Coming from the 60d, I feel very at home with the right-hand only layout of the 6d.


If you’re coming from a camera that has never had the joystick I could see the comfort in not having one. But for shooting canons for years that all had joysticks it’s extremely frustrating at times.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Mr_Canuck on August 28, 2014, 01:57:32 AM
So you're looking for a 5D MkIII then. Already available.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Ruined on August 28, 2014, 02:32:16 AM
It would be a much more attractive option if it had the joystick for focus point selection. I honestly like a lot of what the current 6D offers.

Personally, I'd say a joystick for 11 af points (10 non-crosspoint, one only crosspoint at f4+) is overkill - these few points are selected quickly with the multicontroller. Coming from the 60d, I feel very at home with the right-hand only layout of the 6d.


If you’re coming from a camera that has never had the joystick I could see the comfort in not having one. But for shooting canons for years that all had joysticks it’s extremely frustrating at times.

The lack of joystick is a bit annoying on the 6D, though the multicontroller can be programmed to work like the joystick and select AF just fine in the custom functions.  Main problem is multicontroller is not in as comfortable position ergonomically as the joystick.  So I would prefer the joystick, but the 5D3 is lacking in some areas (lack of interchangeable focus screen, worse ISO performance) compared to the 6D.  It is particularly baffling as interchangeable focus screens is a more "pro" feature yet only the entry level 6D and top of the line 1DX current Canon FFs have it, the midrange 5D3 lacking oddly.  ISO noise I can understand as the 6D is newer and has a newer sensor, but it is still something to consider if buying now... I would not buy a 5D3, but if Canon fixes these things in a 5D4 I'd buy it.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Marsu42 on August 28, 2014, 01:38:19 PM
It is particularly baffling as interchangeable focus screens is a more "pro" feature yet only the entry level 6D and top of the line 1DX current Canon FFs have it, the midrange 5D3 lacking oddly.


Not really, the 6d is a copy of the 5d2 which had this feature. Canon obviously just chose to separate the 1dx from the 5d3 here, though there seem to be (expensive) 3rd party options available for the 5d3. Given the bad af performance I reckon a 6d with a mf screen is a "backup" body for most, probably just what Canon calculated it should be.

ISO noise I can understand as the 6D is newer and has a newer sensor, but it is still something to consider if buying now... I would not buy a 5D3, but if Canon fixes these things in a 5D4 I'd buy it.

The 6d's advantage is less vertical banding which only matters if you raise the shadows a *lot*. It does matter though in combination with the higher dr and Magic Lantern's dual_iso module to give the 6d a higher boosted dr than the 5d3.

As for pure iso snr, don't forget the 5d3 has a bit higher resolution so downsampled it's wash. Maybe, just maybe you could argue for 1/3ev less noise, but that's barely noticeable.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: drob on March 03, 2015, 01:42:49 AM
When the 6D MkII comes out, it's going to have to feature something that the 5DMkIII doesn't have...When the original 6D was introduced, it started @ $2K...that's essentially what you can get the 5D MkIII at right now. If Canon was smart and wanted to sell a ton of cameras, they would just have to sell a full frame Rebel 6ts for $1500.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Marsu42 on March 03, 2015, 02:32:59 AM
If Canon was smart and wanted to sell a ton of cameras, they would just have to sell a full frame Rebel 6ts for $1500.

Sure Canon is interested in having a good part of the market, but what they're more interested in is profit. And rumor is that a ff sensor is rather expensive to produce, and even if you cut everything else - basically like on the 6d - you're still well above crop territory.

That and internal cannibalization will occupy their marketing minds, i.e. better sell a $1000 70d with $500 profit than a €1500 6ts for €300 profit and omit the danger of people "downgrading" from a real ff camera like the 5d. I'm sure there are other arguments in disfavor of a "ff Rebel" and Canon will only do so if they're forced by Sonikon.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: jeffa4444 on March 03, 2015, 06:49:46 AM
The Canon rep we know thinks Canon will keep the 6D going at least until 2016 not that they get much advanced notification of change. He thinks any MK II camera will have a set pattern of changes i.e. sensor upgrade, metering upgrade, focus point upgrade but much of the rest of the features will remain the same.
The 6D is clearly not part of Canon Pro line of cameras but then again neither is the 7D MKII both sit within Canon Enthusiast Group yet the 7D / 7DMKII have far more in common with the 5D MK II / III aside from sensor size and its more expensive than the 6D.

The price gap between the 6D and the 5D MKIII is quite wide I would not be surprised to see Canon add a camera between the two after the release of the 5DS / 5DS R maybe a 6DS!
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: fragilesi on March 03, 2015, 07:27:07 AM
If Canon was smart and wanted to sell a ton of cameras, they would just have to sell a full frame Rebel 6ts for $1500.

Sure Canon is interested in having a good part of the market, but what they're more interested in is profit. And rumor is that a ff sensor is rather expensive to produce, and even if you cut everything else - basically like on the 6d - you're still well above crop territory.

That and internal cannibalization will occupy their marketing minds, i.e. better sell a $1000 70d with $500 profit than a €1500 6ts for €300 profit and omit the danger of people "downgrading" from a real ff camera like the 5d. I'm sure there are other arguments in disfavor of a "ff Rebel" and Canon will only do so if they're forced by Sonikon.

What you are describing is sensible business practice.  This will exist in Nikon too.  The fact that Canon has not been "forced by Sonikon" demonstrates that similar processes are in operation in all three companies.  This should not be any kind of surprise to anyone.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Marsu42 on March 03, 2015, 02:06:50 PM
What you are describing is sensible business practice.  This will exist in Nikon too.  The fact that Canon has not been "forced by Sonikon" demonstrates that similar processes are in operation in all three companies.  This should not be any kind of surprise to anyone.

Still, there might be different business practices in the respective companies. Sony is know to stuff every gadget they can come up with into their products ignoring compatibility (external or internal), while Nikon seems to be out to have the best "on paper" specs and value. This might be simply due to market share and Canon being the dominant force, but maybe there are different enterprise cultures that result in Canon being rather conservative.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: jeffa4444 on March 03, 2015, 04:58:09 PM
Conservative or not after the Axis purchase of $ 2.8bn Canon still have cash reserves of $ 4.25bn so they are clearly doing something right but equally they need to remember once Nikon was king of the pile and they took their place it could equally be taken from Canon the old saying goes "Innovate or die". 
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: drob on March 04, 2015, 12:49:08 AM
Canon could stick the 6D's current sensor into the Rebel 6ts, and viola...6DII with better specs than the current 6D (no new sensor tech costs and non crippled beginner FF camera).
Win-win for all.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: fragilesi on March 04, 2015, 12:39:38 PM
What you are describing is sensible business practice.  This will exist in Nikon too.  The fact that Canon has not been "forced by Sonikon" demonstrates that similar processes are in operation in all three companies.  This should not be any kind of surprise to anyone.

Still, there might be different business practices in the respective companies. Sony is know to stuff every gadget they can come up with into their products ignoring compatibility (external or internal), while Nikon seems to be out to have the best "on paper" specs and value. This might be simply due to market share and Canon being the dominant force, but maybe there are different enterprise cultures that result in Canon being rather conservative.

Indeed there might.  But the fact that Canon are not being forced as you put it earlier suggests that the difference in feature sets when everything is taken into account is not that great.  I do think Canon is more conservative because they want to remain a choice for as many professionals / prosumers as possible.  This means quality and continuity are definitely things they put higher up the priority stack than say Sony.  And Quality plus the vastly bigger array of lenses cost, they cost a lot. It costs in resources, money and time to market.

At the end of the day it's all about choices and even in this day and age if your camera is an important thing for you Quality is likely to be hugely important.     
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: Marsu42 on March 05, 2015, 02:14:30 AM
But the fact that Canon are not being forced as you put it earlier suggests that the difference in feature sets when everything is taken into account is not that great.

Personally, I find that the main reason that *any* recent dslr is an incredible tool and sufficient for most things you can come up with - alas, except tracking. But one or more features don't matter that much except on paper.

I do think Canon is more conservative because they want to remain a choice for as many professionals / prosumers as possible.
[

Agreed - which in turn can make it a bit awkward for anyone below that level. It's not I wouldn't recommend Canon to entry-level shooters, esp. because of Magic Lantern, but purchasing at 6d price and below imho warrants a good comparison with Nikon/Sony.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: fragilesi on March 05, 2015, 07:22:35 AM
Agreed - which in turn can make it a bit awkward for anyone below that level. It's not I wouldn't recommend Canon to entry-level shooters, esp. because of Magic Lantern, but purchasing at 6d price and below imho warrants a good comparison with Nikon/Sony.

Agreed, I do wonder which way I would jump if I was just starting now.  That quality would be high on the agenda though, I don't have mega bucks to spend on multiple bodies and the like and I don't have anywhere near enough time for this hobby.  Therefore I need my camera to work perfectly every time.  I am lucky enough to be able to say that so far that has happened :).

(Now I've done it, wait for the imminent sob story  :) )
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: greger on March 05, 2015, 08:46:10 PM
I am interested in what the 6Dll will be! Being able to focus quickly with all focus points as opposed to centre spot focus only and recompose would be a nice upgrade.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: JohnBran on April 15, 2015, 07:43:43 AM
Well here is my wish list for the 6D MKII its not long:

The last possibility for pressure to upgrade 6d1->6d2 would be Nikon or Sony, but Canon has demonstrated that they don't really care about the competition's specs as long as they've got a similarly priced offer at all: Many people are tied to Canon by their gear or years of usability experience with this system.


Many of us have sold all our canon glass ( i have two left) and waiting to see what will 6dII bring. Canon is soo far behind Nikon that staying with Canon and the prices they charge for their products is just silly.
Mind you , this is the case in Europe . In US  Canon has better prices.
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: JohanCruyff on April 15, 2015, 08:24:37 AM
It would be a much more attractive option if it had the joystick for focus point selection. I honestly like a lot of what the current 6D offers.

Personally, I'd say a joystick for 11 af points (10 non-crosspoint, one only crosspoint at f4+) is overkill - these few points are selected quickly with the multicontroller. Coming from the 60d, I feel very at home with the right-hand only layout of the 6d.

+1   Coming from 450D, ergonomics in 6D are also very great for my hands. Multicontroller is easy and fast to use. Haven't use joystick though...
I must be a really weird person, but I never liked my (classic) 5D's joystick.
When I wanted to switch from the central point to a top-right AF point, for example, it happened to select the top or the right AF point by mistake.
I prefer my current 70D multi-controller (6D like, AFAIK).
 
Title: Re: 6D MKII
Post by: JohnBran on April 16, 2015, 09:59:23 AM

Quote
Agreed - which in turn can make it a bit awkward for anyone below that level. It's not I wouldn't recommend Canon to entry-level shooters, esp. because of Magic Lantern, but purchasing at 6d price and below imho warrants a good comparison with Nikon/Sony.

The best summary of us who have been long time with Canon and are now looking to move up to FF.  Feature/Price is big consideration and Canon is just not competitive in Europe on that level. They are much better in US but hey that's not where i will be purchasing.
But i'll still wait for a while to see if there are any announcements regarding 6DMkII. I'm familiar with Canon systems so ultimately would like to stay with Canon. 6DMkII will be my decision point. :)