canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on January 23, 2012, 09:36:12 PM

Title: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Canon Rumors on January 23, 2012, 09:36:12 PM
5D Mark III, 7D Mark II or neither? The camera that popped up today has brought about a lot of questions of what it might be. I’ve seen speculation from a few places that perhaps the camera is a replacement for both the 7D and 5D Mark II.  The camera definitely looks to be full frame, however there is a lot of the “sporty” features of the 7D.

The Leak The pictures taken for this leak are pretty extraordinary compared to the stuff we’ve seen in the past. I’ve been asked if there has been a change in the way Canon is treating viral marketing, and I have no answer for that right now.

It is interesting that Nikon “leaked’ their D800 a little while ago, and the perceived direct competitor from Canon also leaks.

More to come I’m sure.

cr

Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: unix81 on January 23, 2012, 09:38:43 PM
It's the 5D XXV  ;D  no doubt
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: kapanak on January 23, 2012, 09:45:12 PM
Can someone explain these "sporty" features? I have a 5DII, and the button layout on this leak just seems like 7D button layout. To me, that is a progression, an evolution of the 5D button layout.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: infared on January 23, 2012, 09:50:07 PM
This could be a leak directly from the manufacturer. There is a LOT of buzz right now about a new Olympus OM MFT camera...and very small details of the camera are trickling out... one by one..I believe from Olympus. We saw the same thing in advance of the Fuji XP1 announcement. All Japanese manufactures and all a recent phenomenon that you did not see much in the past.
I believe that the manufacturers are well aware of these rumor sites, are catching on to a new marketing opportunity and are finding that sending out teases to these websites (a salivating audience just waiting to be titillated with advanced info), gets  them a lot of basically free marketing before the product is released. These photos look staged. No?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: JR on January 23, 2012, 09:57:50 PM
a 5DX!  Now that's a very interesting idea indeed!  I wonder what kind of spec a 5DmkIII combined with a 7DmkII would bring!  Maybe Canon will surprise all of use with yet another merger of product line.  If that were true, at least we would almost be sure the resulting camera would have a better AF then the current 5DmkII  :P

All this really feels like we are close to something big being announced here!  Finally!

Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: mkln on January 23, 2012, 10:21:55 PM
I wonder how the successors of 1D X and 5D X would be called.

1D Y?
1D X Mark II?
1D XX?

just stayin, canon, just sayin.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: shtfmeister on January 23, 2012, 10:23:55 PM
the love child of the 5DII and the 7D i'd buy one of those
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Gcon on January 23, 2012, 10:26:02 PM
The 5DX is a really fantastic development if it eventuates! Kill the 7D crop sensor for good! Read on...

I own two 5DmarkII's and I bought a 7D on a whim in November of last year. I love everything about the 7D except the image quality.  Compared to the 5DMarkII there is noticeably more noise even at base ISO, less accurate colors and less dynamic range - all of these are noticeable in Lightroom and not just spec sheet facts.  For the quality of camera body that you get and the features you get - the Achilles heel is the sensor. I've thought since buying the 7D, that crop sensors it the Canon lineup should stop with the 60D.

For the 5DMarkII's, the IQ is really very good, but is let down by many of the features - poor AF and poor weather sealing are two of the main culprits. Read more of its weaknesses here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d700/vs-5d-mark-ii.htm (I don't agree with K.R. with everything but that's a really good summation of things and I agree with those weaknesses 100%).

I'd be extremely happy if they combined the 5D and 7D lines, even if it sold for an extra grand over the current 5DMarkII. It would still be a lot less than a 1DX (approx half the price), and not be as fast, nor have quite as many features, but it would be enough to satisfy me as serious amateur, and stop me going the Nikon way.

5DX - let it be true!!!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: GoldenEagle on January 23, 2012, 11:03:24 PM
I don't know about a blend. I like having both FF/5DM2 plus a 1.6Crop/7D, it gives great flexibility when having both bodies and a few lenses to switch around.

Re: leaking. One very good reason for Canon to leak is to get its existing customers fixated on ("fall in love") with what's ahead in the Canon line, and be more willing to wait and NOT be tempted to switch loyalties from Nikon, Sony, etc. who might deliver a product a few weeks/months ahead of Canon. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: samueljay on January 23, 2012, 11:04:24 PM
I'm just glad whatever it is it doesn't have an articulating screen! Looks great though! Feels like we might hear something soon, I'm so excited :D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Justin on January 23, 2012, 11:06:00 PM
I don't care how many af points or fps, If it's the 1Dx sensor I'm pretty sure I'm not buying it.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: D_Rochat on January 23, 2012, 11:11:27 PM
Very interesting. It's definitely possible that they are merging the two and keeping the Pro line FF only.  I'm sure Canon is anticipating the APS-C fanatics pissing themselves and maybe they'll gear the 70D to be more like the 7D or the 7D mkII that they want. If it's an improvement, who cares what badge it wears.  Who knows what they'll do.....
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: BlueMixWhite on January 23, 2012, 11:18:01 PM
This definitely a planned leak, if not why there is no frontal view of the camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: unfocused on January 23, 2012, 11:24:45 PM
I'm a little hesitant to jump in on a conversation that seems to me to be going in some pretty wild directions. But I just can't help myself.

I'm going to predict that this is the 5D Mk III. Why?

Here is what Stephen Oachs said:

Quote
I'm currently on a shoot in Kenya, Africa, and I ran into a Japanese man sporting some gear I didn't recognize. While his English was very limited, I was able to confirm that he works for Canon and is doing in-field testing with the new Canon 200-400mm with built-in teleconverter. He also was testing the new Canon 600mm.

My thought: I don't believe Canon would send a photographer out to do field testing in a public location using a body that is not close to being released. The absence of the on-camera flash probably rules out the 7DII. The grip is clearly an add-on. So, my money is on the new 5D III.

As far as this being some sort of conscious effort on Canon's part to "leak" something, I'm doubting it. I'll leave that to the conspiracy theorists. But, I suspect that the Canon employee was instructed to tell anyone who noticed that he was field testing the lenses. No trade secret there. The 200-400 was announced a year ago. I'm guessing that if he were asked about the camera, he'd simply pretend not to understand or give some other, non-committal answer.

Not nearly as fun as speculating about some grand, secret strategy. But, when simple, obvious answers are available, it's usually best to go with them.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: D_Rochat on January 23, 2012, 11:35:22 PM
I'm a little hesitant to jump in on a conversation that seems to me to be going in some pretty wild directions.

If someone told you one year ago that there would be no more 1Ds or 1D (as we knew it) and there would be an 18mp body to replace both, would you consider that to have been a conversation going in a wild direction? At this point, anything is possible  ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: kapanak on January 23, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: AG on January 24, 2012, 12:08:40 AM
The 5DX is a really fantastic development if it eventuates! Kill the 7D crop sensor for good!

I said that once and scored myself a whole bunch of Negative Karma as a result.

But it does kinda make sense....sorta.

Instead of Killing the Crop make it the XXD model as the high end.
Move all the missing features of the 7D into the 60D's replacement and that then makes the XXD series relevant again.

The only real problem with that theory is that the 7D faithful won't like the fact that their body of choice has become an XXD model number not a XD model (something to do with the mindset that XD model numbers are for pros models etc).

Either way i am hoping that this could be the mythical 5D3/X or Hybrid Cinema EOS film guys like myself have been waiting for.

How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Tsk tsk. There you go being all logical and stuff  :P
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 24, 2012, 12:13:56 AM
The 5DX is a really fantastic development if it eventuates! Kill the 7D crop sensor for good! Read on...

I own two 5DmarkII's and I bought a 7D on a whim in November of last year. I love everything about the 7D except the image quality.  Compared to the 5DMarkII there is noticeably more noise even at base ISO, less accurate colors and less dynamic range - all of these are noticeable in Lightroom and not just spec sheet facts.  For the quality of camera body that you get and the features you get - the Achilles heel is the sensor. I've thought since buying the 7D, that crop sensors it the Canon lineup should stop with the 60D.

For the 5DMarkII's, the IQ is really very good, but is let down by many of the features - poor AF and poor weather sealing are two of the main culprits. Read more of its weaknesses here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d700/vs-5d-mark-ii.htm (I don't agree with K.R. with everything but that's a really good summation of things and I agree with those weaknesses 100%).

I'd be extremely happy if they combined the 5D and 7D lines, even if it sold for an extra grand over the current 5DMarkII. It would still be a lot less than a 1DX (approx half the price), and not be as fast, nor have quite as many features, but it would be enough to satisfy me as serious amateur, and stop me going the Nikon way.

5DX - let it be true!!!

They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 24, 2012, 12:17:56 AM
I'm a little hesitant to jump in on a conversation that seems to me to be going in some pretty wild directions. But I just can't help myself.

I'm going to predict that this is the 5D Mk III. Why?

Here is what Stephen Oachs said:

Quote
I'm currently on a shoot in Kenya, Africa, and I ran into a Japanese man sporting some gear I didn't recognize. While his English was very limited, I was able to confirm that he works for Canon and is doing in-field testing with the new Canon 200-400mm with built-in teleconverter. He also was testing the new Canon 600mm.

 I'm guessing that if he were asked about the camera, he'd simply pretend not to understand or give some other, non-committal answer.

The canon photographer probably actually speaks English more fluently than the guy who snapped the mystery picks (or myself or that matter).  ;D

Quote
Not nearly as fun as speculating about some grand, secret strategy. But, when simple, obvious answers are available, it's usually best to go with them.

Soooo. An Occam Razorist in our midst is there....
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 24, 2012, 12:20:34 AM
How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: D_Rochat on January 24, 2012, 12:29:36 AM
They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.

Killing off the APS-C 7D wouldn't be the end of the APS-C in general. As I stated earlier, they could very well gear the xxD Prosumer  line towards the APS-C crowd, with improvements. The 7D is more of a Prosumer body anyways IMO. Rebadge and continue to sell.

EDIT - Unless you are only obsessed with owning a xD body, it makes no difference. If having a xD body is your only concern, your priorities are off. *pulling out the Smite shield*

Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: kapanak on January 24, 2012, 12:30:44 AM
How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.

That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: D_Rochat on January 24, 2012, 12:40:53 AM
It's just a smaller sensor.

My bad. msowsun is right. "the rear element of the lens (EF-S) is closer to the image sensor than on regular 35 mm SLR cameras"
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: aeturnum on January 24, 2012, 12:42:29 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Angryoak on January 24, 2012, 12:45:32 AM
What would be great is if they combined the 7d & 5D and produced a FF camera that was capable of taking EF-S lenses (sorta like nikons dx mode). 
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: msowsun on January 24, 2012, 12:48:47 AM
EF-S lenses are short back focus and will hit the mirror in most cases. Nikon doesn't have that problem apparently.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 24, 2012, 01:13:22 AM
They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.

Killing off the APS-C 7D wouldn't be the end of the APS-C in general. As I stated earlier, they could very well gear the xxD Prosumer  line towards the APS-C crowd, with improvements. The 7D is more of a Prosumer body anyways IMO. Rebadge and continue to sell.

EDIT - Unless you are only obsessed with owning a xD body, it makes no difference. If having a xD body is your only concern, your priorities are off. *pulling out the Smite shield*

True, but marketing does tend to worry about the xD to xxD status symbol stuff. Maybe they jump it to 80D to make up for that.  ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 24, 2012, 01:14:27 AM


That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?

No it can't change lens to sensor distance. All it does is like mask off the outer parts of a FF sensor. It just changes the FOV you get. You don't get any extra detail on distant objects compared to using the same lens on a FF camera of the same photosite density (although they often use same total MP on APS-C and FF and thus APS-C often has more photosite density).

Well EF-S can go closer, but they would smack FF mirror, plus they still deliver the same focal length equivalent they don't get a 1.6x focal length boost when it comes to putting extra detail on a distance subject.

Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: KyleSTL on January 24, 2012, 01:49:58 AM
Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)?  Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: kapanak on January 24, 2012, 01:51:43 AM
Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)?  Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.

Why would that happen? A FF version of the current 7D sensor would be a around ... 29MP?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:
  • The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
  • The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
  • The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
  • The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

I use a 7D and wouls seriously hate to see Canon ruin it by mixing it with the 5d. The arguments you post there about sports shooters could just crop completely don't work. For sports and worse still bird photography, the loss of focal length by going to FF makes the lenses shorter! This is a horrible idea for Canon, and one they hopefully will not embrace, because it causes the small birds to become much smaller indeed.

Which is why I offered the on-sensor cropping idea ... If the FF sensor crops to 1.6X, then both camps are happy, except with regards to frames per second.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: moreorless on January 24, 2012, 02:15:48 AM
I wouldnt be supprized if there was a general shift upwards in AF performance of all of Canon's lines this generation given that there previous advanatge in sensor performance may not be there.

650D gets 60D AF

70D gets 7D AF

7D gets new system between the old and 1D

5D mk3/X gets FF equivilent of 7D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Blaze on January 24, 2012, 02:23:41 AM
Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)?  Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.

Why would that happen? A FF version of the current 7D sensor would be a around ... 29MP?

No. The linear crop factor is 1.6x. You have to account for both horizontal and vertical increase in size.
18.1 MP APS-C scaled up to a full frame sensor is 18.1 MP * 1.6 * 1.6 = 46.3 MP.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: briansquibb on January 24, 2012, 02:55:58 AM
Perhaps Canon are going to do a Nikon - release a ff with APS-C compatibility

APS-C sensors will then be consigned to P&S/compacts like the other manufacturers are doing.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Gcon on January 24, 2012, 03:05:15 AM
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:
  • The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
  • The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
  • The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
  • The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

I like what you did there with that break-down. I think Canon made a big mistake in muddying their product lines by giving a crop sensor a xD designation.  Really only FF sensors should have the xD designation.

I predict that that the 5Dx will be a merging of full-frame 5DmarkII, with the best features of the 7D.

So what happens to the 7D2 then? I don't really care as I won't buy one, but they could come out with a kick-ass 70D, and bring things in line with what you said.

For all those people who want a crop sensor for "reach" I'm not overly convinced by that argument. You pack all those photosites so close together and yes you get more perceived reach, but the noise increases too.  If ISO is high enough, I believe it's better to crop in Photoshop a full frame image. Really it depends on the ISO - a crop sensor is better for reach at lower ISO, but IMHO a crop of a full frame image is better at higher ISO.

In any case - can't wait for Feb!!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Britman on January 24, 2012, 03:34:50 AM

One thing people seems to forget and that the price range. If the 7D & 5D merged it would cost around £2,000 that's one hell of a jump from the 60D @ £700. At present the 7D fill the price gape between the 60D & 5D.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Rank_90 on January 24, 2012, 03:42:47 AM

One thing people seems to forget and that the price range. If the 7D & 5D merged it would cost around £2,000 that's one hell of a jump from the 60D @ £700. At present the 7D fill the price gape between the 60D & 5D.

For me I feel that the 7D is too young to be replaced with a Mrk II. I think Canon know that sales of the 7D are doing the job too so why replace it. The 5D Mrk II is in need of an upgrade for loads of reasons. So for me the 7D Mrk II is not a likely outcome in my opinion. What we are looking at here I'm 99.9% sure is the 5D Mrk III. Just all in my opinion.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: NormanBates on January 24, 2012, 04:19:43 AM
"The pictures taken for this leak are pretty extraordinary compared to the stuff we’ve seen in the past"

as you'd expect: this time they're testing the camera in a place where the would-be paparazzi have some very long lenses mounted on their cameras
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: NotABunny on January 24, 2012, 04:49:53 AM
How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.

That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?

It is due to the fact that the pixel density is higher. That is, if you get a shot with both FF and APSC (everything else being equal), you get more cropping capabilities with the APSC. The FF would need to have 2.56 times more pixels in order to provide the same cropping capabilities.

The reverse is that the pixels get progressively worse looking (because they get smaller). Ultimately, you get the look of compact cameras (at least if you get a pixel density of around 200...300 MP FF-equivalent).
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: MagnusF on January 24, 2012, 05:03:10 AM
Oh man, i just sold my 7D to buy the 5D mark ii + 24-105 for $2799.

The offer ends feb 7th, hmm where have i heard that date before? :)

Now i cant decide if i should get it or wait...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: bycostello on January 24, 2012, 05:27:49 AM
5DX would seem in keeping with the other stuff being released...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Viggo on January 24, 2012, 05:36:51 AM
I think I am going to trust Canon on the resolution and I have no problem being on board with 21% larger pixels in the 1d X will kill everything in the 25 mp range when it comes to IQ.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Rank_90 on January 24, 2012, 05:37:12 AM
Oh man, i just sold my 7D to buy the 5D mark ii + 24-105 for $2799.

The offer ends feb 7th, hmm where have i heard that date before? :)

Now i cant decide if i should get it or wait...

You wait mate! Simples...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Tijn on January 24, 2012, 06:39:27 AM
To summarize the last 25 pages of rumor on this body:

It looks to be a 7D body (pretty much exact same button layout), but with a strange viewfinder bulge instead of pop-up flash (which would indicate FF), yet the viewfinder opening itself does not look like a classic FF one (rather, a crop or perhaps APS-H..?). However, some Smart persona noticed that the 1D X (FF) also has a visible viewfinder cutout, though it seems to be wider than the one in this picture. So this being a FF body with a 7D button layout (like a 5D mk3 with layout makeover) is not impossible; but it could also be APS-H.
If were APS-C, perhaps the bulge indicates a new nifty feature. IR AF assist, or IR flash trigger?

Other remarks:
- A new "rate" button; its placement suggests that it's to rate pictures with, not to change framerate.
- Dual card slot (icon seen at the top LCD in some picture).
- The original source shows pictures of two bodies, the 1D X and this new "mystery body" (probably 5D mk3).
- Bird photographed authentic and correct subspecies to the supposed location of this picture taken. (Helmeted Guineafowl)
- Missing "creative auto" mode on mode dial.

(http://i39.tinypic.com/6tid8g.jpg) (akiskev's image, nicely done)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: surfing_geek on January 24, 2012, 06:40:11 AM


This whole attitude of only FF is pro is a really outdated mindset.

I totally agree. As has been said countless times on here, they are both just tools for different jobs. Crop sensors are perfect for those wanting the extra reach. Yes, you could crop in PP, but why bother if you can get it right in-camera? And as pointed out earlier (I wasn't quick enough!), using the logic that only FF should have single-digit/pro designation means that the 1d series should never have been considered professional, being aps-h with a 1.3x crop.

And my vote goes to the 7d mkii. Why? Cos that's what I want to see!
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: smirkypants on January 24, 2012, 06:48:24 AM
I promise you this Mr. Canon Person in Charge... if you get me a 7D2 and that 200-400/f4 lens by year's end, I promise that I will never consider jumping ship to Nikon again to get that spectacular 200-400/f4 lens, even though the D300s is a turd compared to my 7D and a steaming turd next to my 1D4.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: briansquibb on January 24, 2012, 06:56:59 AM
Canon are going to surprise us all and announce the 100mp 1.3 1D5  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 24, 2012, 07:05:29 AM
As far as this being some sort of conscious effort on Canon's part to "leak" something, I'm doubting it. I'll leave that to the conspiracy theorists. But, I suspect that the Canon employee was instructed to tell anyone who noticed that he was field testing the lenses. No trade secret there. The 200-400 was announced a year ago. I'm guessing that if he were asked about the camera, he'd simply pretend not to understand or give some other, non-committal answer.

Not nearly as fun as speculating about some grand, secret strategy. But, when simple, obvious answers are available, it's usually best to go with them.

+1.  The clever explanations were worth a chuckle, though...particularly the speculation stemming from the EXIF data of the pictures of the new camera...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: AprilForever on January 24, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
Canon are going to surprise us all and announce the 100mp 1.3 1D5  :-* :-* :-*

This I could go for, because it would have sufficient pixel density, and nearly the 1.6x crop... But, I really do hope that they do not merge the two lines. To me, it seems to be an advantage to specialize a little. Also, Nikon has both  the D800 and the D400 up and coming. If Canon decides to drop the XD lineup into a single camera, this could cause many who are looking for a specific tool to look at the other side of the fence.

When fixing my truck, there are basicly two kids of wrenches: an adjustable wrench, and wrenches of many different sizes. I much prefer the exact wrench to the job than an all purpose wrench. In a camera, I want a camera optimized for wildlife/sports (what I primarily shoot). At some point, I will likely get a 5D. It will not be used for bird pictures or pitcher pictures. It would see its main use with landscape and portraits. I like to use 12mm wrenches on 12mm bolts, and 18mm wrenches on 18mm bolts. A camera which can do too much will do too little.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Justin on January 24, 2012, 09:34:29 AM
What would be great is if they combined the 7d & 5D and produced a FF camera that was capable of taking EF-S lenses (sorta like nikons dx mode).

Agreed. This would be the most fully realized manifestation of the X model.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: MazV-L on January 24, 2012, 09:39:05 AM
Canon will only make a 5DX if they don't mind upsetting a large portion of their customer base. Oh, wait. They already did that. New pro body which lowers the resolution (a tick against the landscape folk), reduces the crop size (a tick against the sports and wildlife folk) AND doesn't autofocus with f8 (a major tick against people using f4 superteles with the tc 2x, or the 800 5.6 with the 1.4x Anyone else feel Arthur Morris' rage?).
Maybe this new camera is targetted at some of those people that were upset with the 1DX  eg: wildlife photographers. Look where they're testing it; the subject matter and the lenses used, perhaps this camera is APS-H  :-\ :o
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Justin on January 24, 2012, 09:44:39 AM
Canon will only make a 5DX if they don't mind upsetting a large portion of their customer base. Oh, wait. They already did that. New pro body which lowers the resolution (a tick against the landscape folk), reduces the crop size (a tick against the sports and wildlife folk) AND doesn't autofocus with f8 (a major tick against people using f4 superteles with the tc 2x, or the 800 5.6 with the 1.4x Anyone else feel Arthur Morris' rage?).

Yeah I think anything is possible here. It's also possible that this is is a full frame 7D and a 5D3 successor will follow later in the year with high mpx in response to Nikon D800. That would allow Canon to sell more 70Ds for the 1.6 crop crowd demanding reach and dense sensor for detail.

In this way Canon would have 3 full frame cameras:
1Dx (18mpx)
7Dx (18mpx)
5DII successor (maybe with the 39 mpx sensor for video as was intimated on another thread)
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: aeturnum on January 24, 2012, 10:30:36 AM


This whole attitude of only FF is pro is a really outdated mindset.

I totally agree. As has been said countless times on here, they are both just tools for different jobs. Crop sensors are perfect for those wanting the extra reach. Yes, you could crop in PP, but why bother if you can get it right in-camera? And as pointed out earlier (I wasn't quick enough!), using the logic that only FF should have single-digit/pro designation means that the 1d series should never have been considered professional, being aps-h with a 1.3x crop.

And my vote goes to the 7d mkii. Why? Cos that's what I want to see!

It's not that I want to see high-end crop sensors vanish, but it seems like Canon is perfectly happy to replace their 1.3x crop camera with a FF camera at the top. If they're willing to replace their high-end "professional" crop camera (which was aimed at sports / birding people), why wouldn't they adopt that strategy throughout their lineup?
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Axilrod on January 24, 2012, 10:30:48 AM
To summarize the last 25 pages of rumor on this body:


(http://i39.tinypic.com/6tid8g.jpg) (akiskev's image, nicely done)

Anyone else see those 4 little lights under the screen on the left?  Wonder what those are for...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: mathino on January 24, 2012, 10:35:49 AM
To summarize the last 25 pages of rumor on this body:


(http://i39.tinypic.com/6tid8g.jpg) (akiskev's image, nicely done)

Anyone else see those 4 little lights under the screen on the left?  Wonder what those are for...

I think they are not lights but mic holes.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: DJL329 on January 24, 2012, 11:34:42 AM
It's the 5D XXV  ;D  no doubt

Boy, you are nvts.  N - V - T - S, nvts!  ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: ers811 on January 24, 2012, 12:51:42 PM
Yeah I think anything is possible here. It's also possible that this is is a full frame 7D and a 5D3 successor will follow later in the year with high mpx in response to Nikon D800. That would allow Canon to sell more 70Ds for the 1.6 crop crowd demanding reach and dense sensor for detail.

In this way Canon would have 3 full frame cameras:
1Dx (18mpx)
7Dx (18mpx)
5DII successor (maybe with the 39 mpx sensor for video as was intimated on another thread)

I can say with 90% certainty that I am 100% certain Canon will have a xD pro body with a 1.6 crop sensor.  :P

Sports and wildlife photographers WANT the crop, and all the features and weather sealing that come with a pro body.

I think more likely after merging the 1-series line would be keep 7D line for sports/nature, and somehow SPLIT the 5D line, either 2 different 5Ds, or maybe a new line (3D?) for video.

The 1DX is already he best of 7D and 5D... and then some. 

Some specialization is still a good thing.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 24, 2012, 02:46:08 PM
For all those people who want a crop sensor for "reach" I'm not overly convinced by that argument. You pack all those photosites so close together and yes you get more perceived reach, but the noise increases too.  If ISO is high enough, I believe it's better to crop in Photoshop a full frame image. Really it depends on the ISO - a crop sensor is better for reach at lower ISO, but IMHO a crop of a full frame image is better at higher ISO.

In any case - can't wait for Feb!!

Yes, but at least have the option to trade effective reach for noise. Comparing a 5D2 to a 7D:

For a distant bird you can either get more detail on the bird with the 7D or a trace less noise (yes, when you are entirely distance limited the 7D can give a trace BETTER noise performance, at any ISO yes even ISO3200, than the 5D2 because it is slightly more efficient per area of sensor and the higher photosite density washes away more de-mosaic errors if you compare the images from the two cameras at normalized scale). [For non-distance limited it's a different story since the 5D2 sensor is much larger and that more than makes up for the slight difference in efficiency per area, assuming you maintain same aperture setting and don't adjust for DOF.]

At higher ISO there may be enough noise that fine details get washed away though and effective reach advantages get washed away. Even by ISO800 the 7D vs 5D2 effective reach advantage is already less than at ISO100. You still don't do worse for noise/aliasing/etc. though, actually a trace better.

And if you are sloppy and/or can't use high enough shutter speeds, if the focusing is a bit off, etc. then effective reach advantages also go away (but you still never do worse).

Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: neuroanatomist on January 24, 2012, 03:00:11 PM
Really it depends on the ISO - a crop sensor is better for reach at lower ISO, but IMHO a crop of a full frame image is better at higher ISO.

Assuming the intent is a common result such as a print of a given size, are you aware that cropping the image from a FF sensor down to the FoV of an APS-C sensor throws away all of the advantage the FF sensor provides?  FWIW, it also eliminates the shallower DoF you started with on FF...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: LetTheRightLensIn on January 24, 2012, 04:22:55 PM

Anyone else see those 4 little lights under the screen on the left?  Wonder what those are for...

the 5D2 has some sort of light there too and the holes are probably for the speaker or mic
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: Jim K on January 24, 2012, 05:21:36 PM
Canon will only make a 5DX if they don't mind upsetting a large portion of their customer base. Oh, wait. They already did that. New pro body which lowers the resolution (a tick against the landscape folk), reduces the crop size (a tick against the sports and wildlife folk) AND doesn't autofocus with f8 (a major tick against people using f4 superteles with the tc 2x, or the 800 5.6 with the 1.4x Anyone else feel Arthur Morris' rage?).

YES! What is my upgrade path from the 7D? Kill off the 1D and eliminate f/8 focusing on it's FF "replacement." That's smart Canon. I love my white lenses but what will I use them on in the future? BTW, I shoot birds and wildlife.
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: briansquibb on January 24, 2012, 06:29:16 PM
The 1DX is already he best of 7D and 5D... and then some. 

Wonderful statement  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: AprilForever on January 24, 2012, 07:28:38 PM
Canon will only make a 5DX if they don't mind upsetting a large portion of their customer base. Oh, wait. They already did that. New pro body which lowers the resolution (a tick against the landscape folk), reduces the crop size (a tick against the sports and wildlife folk) AND doesn't autofocus with f8 (a major tick against people using f4 superteles with the tc 2x, or the 800 5.6 with the 1.4x Anyone else feel Arthur Morris' rage?).

YES! What is my upgrade path from the 7D? Kill off the 1D and eliminate f/8 focusing on it's FF "replacement." That's smart Canon. I love my white lenses but what will I use them on in the future? BTW, I shoot birds and wildlife.

My sentiments exactly...
Title: Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
Post by: DJL329 on January 25, 2012, 09:29:12 AM

Anyone else see those 4 little lights under the screen on the left?  Wonder what those are for...

the 5D2 has some sort of light there too and the holes are probably for the speaker or mic

The larger oval beneath the LCD screen is the ambient light sensor.  It tells the LCD screen how bright it should get.  The 3 smaller holes are most likely the speaker holes, as the mic holes have consistently been on the front.