canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => Speedlites, Printers, Accessories => Topic started by: zim on February 09, 2012, 04:08:56 PM

Title: Which Speedlite
Post by: zim on February 09, 2012, 04:08:56 PM
I'm looking to buy a flashgun and have got the choice down to the following;

Canon Speedlite 430EX II
Guide No. 43 (at ISO 100/m)

Nissin SpeedliteDi866 Pro
Guide No. 60 (at ISO 100/m)

Both are very closely priced around £200 which is a good price point for me.

I’d like a fast recycle time. From what I can gather the Canon is around 2.5secs and the Nissin 5.5secs both on full power. To compare like for like would anyone know what the recycle time for the Nissin would be at the equivalent Gn43? as that would be enough for the distances involved where I need it faster.

Looking at all other specs I’m favouring the Nissin but would the Canon being a Canon give better overall integration and ease of use?

Any thoughts/advice most appreciated (inculding any others that you feel are better at around this price)
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: Diverman on February 09, 2012, 04:58:20 PM
I have the 430 EXII, and I regard it very highly.  Although I haven't used it for a professional type setting, I have found the recycle time more than adequate for my needs.  Even at full power, the recycle time isn't too bad.  As far as flash output goes, it has also served all my needs very well.  It is very easy to use, and also seems very consistent.  I would highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: zim on February 09, 2012, 05:39:10 PM
Hi Diverman,
Thanks for the reply. I should have been a little clearer in that the 430 is on my short list because of it’s full power recycle time I’m sure it would be more than adequate for my needs too. It’s just that the 866 looks better spec’d overall to me hence the temptation but if it’s slower to use then the 430 is a no-brainer!

Regards
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: wickidwombat on February 09, 2012, 06:17:41 PM
Personally for me I would take the 430exii out of those 2
if you dont need high speed sync and want something cheap look at the yongnuo 565 its a direct copy of the 580exii even works as a slave the exact same way and 1/3rd the price fo the 580 exii
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: zim on February 09, 2012, 06:44:06 PM
Thanks wickid, googling.......  ;D
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: Flake on February 11, 2012, 04:50:39 AM
Comparing the  recycle times of a guide 43 flash with a guide 60 to full power is hardly fair.  If the gun need to fire at guide 60 then the Canon 430 won't be able to do it.

Using an external power pack roughly halves recycle times, the Canon has a Yongnuo version at about £35, but the Nissin doesn't seem to have an equivalent, and their own costs a ridiculous £245.

You could consider the Canon 580EX which goes for around £240 on Ebay but the II version isn't much more fetching around £275
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: MazV-L on February 11, 2012, 05:54:47 AM
If you're worried about recycling time, then external battery pack is a necessity! I use Canon Cp-E4 with my 580ex ii and the difference with and without is amazing! Not many shots are missed due to flash not firing-slow recycling time if you have one of these and your batteries are charged :)
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: bycostello on February 11, 2012, 06:15:56 AM
I have the Nissin and it is easier to use than the canon...  recycle time not really a problem as i don't need to rapid fire anything....
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: zim on February 11, 2012, 06:57:37 PM
Thanks for all the replys.....

Comparing the  recycle times of a guide 43 flash with a guide 60 to full power is hardly fair.  If the gun need to fire at guide 60 then the Canon 430 won't be able to do it.

As I said in my original post "To compare like for like would anyone know what the recycle time for the Nissin would be at the equivalent Gn43?" I agree it wouldn't be fair. Maybe that wasn't the correct way to frame the question.

Using an external power pack roughly halves recycle times, the Canon has a Yongnuo version at about £35, but the Nissin doesn't seem to have an equivalent, and their own costs a ridiculous £245.

.... and MazV-L
I hadn’t considered this, assuming that the external source would be for more life only. +1 Spot on advice exactly the kind of thing I was concerned about not concidering/being aware of.


You could consider the Canon 580EX which goes for around £240 on Ebay but the II version isn't much more fetching around £275

If I can find a 580EXII for £275 that would be amazing but I have to admit I'm coming down on the 430 side at the moment, it’s fast enough as it is and if I need more a battery pack sounds like a perfect combo.

Regards
Z
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: Penn Jennings on February 11, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
Thanks for all the replys.....


You could consider the Canon 580EX which goes for around £240 on Ebay but the II version isn't much more fetching around £275

If I can find a 580EXII for £275 that would be amazing but I have to admit I'm coming down on the 430 side at the moment, it’s fast enough as it is and if I need more a battery pack sounds like a perfect combo.

Regards
Z

I pretty sure that you will find that without a battery back your recycle times will vary wildly depending on the distance to the subject, ambient light, type of batteries, the charge left in batteries and even temperature.  Comparing best case and worst case examples you might find the recycle times are 3 times longer in the worst case.

I totally understand that money is not an infinite resource.  However, I would STRONGLY suggest that if recycle is important, spend the money and get a unit that takes an external battery pack if possible.  On a 580EX II, not only does it cut the recycle time to about 2 seconds but I can take hundreds of shots and they all have the same  2 second recycle time, even when I know the flash did a full dump.  Without the battery back I know that a 580 EX II feels like it takes 2 or 3 times longer or more to recycle.  At a wedding or any other event that you can't ask people to "stop and wait" that is a really big deal.

You can even get a knock battery unit for $50 and save a lot of money. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049JO71G/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049JO71G/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details)
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: zim on February 11, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
....and the 430 doesn't support an external battery pack by the looks of things

hmmmmmm maybe have to divery some funds from somewhere else!  ;)

PS Wouldn’t dream of doing a wedding, way too important a gig! have done a christening for a friend though, not for money and a long time age. Funny thing is that baby is getting married next year and I’m hoping to have a nice shiny new 5D-whatever by then. Again though wouldn’t dream of getting in the way of the pro photog, more fun doing peripheral/party stuff anyway.
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: pwp on February 11, 2012, 10:12:47 PM
There are few more frustrating and professionally embarrassing moments than standing in front of a group of people and having to say,    " Wait there, the flash will be recycled in a moment or two..."

The two flashes you've mentioned are both perfectly fine, but  I'm with other posters who point to the Canon 430ex.

But check Craigslist, Gumtree, eBay etc for a pre-owned 580ex or 580exII. There's nothing wrong with second hand flash gear. In 25 years of constant heavy use I've never had to send a speedlight type flash in for repair, except where my extreme carelessness has caused a breakage or meltdown while using a powerful external Quantum Turbo battery. Once I exploded the capacitors in an old Canon 540EZ when I got my first Turbo battery. I was working it hard on full power, loving the <1 second recycling on full power, ignored the warning burning smell and BANG! It was like a gunshot as the capacitors exploded against my forehead.

Either 580ex or 580exII will deliver faster recycling, more power plus the very compelling option of being able to hook up an external power source. This cannot be underestimated. Simple, get a 580.

Paul Wright
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: kirispupis on February 11, 2012, 11:27:31 PM
I've seen the Nissin in the store before but the main issue I have with it is it's essentially a knockoff for close to the price of the original.  Between the two I would go for the 430EX.

That being said, I recently picked up to Yongnuo 565EX flashes and like them so far.  They run about $150 and function similarly to the 580EX except they cannot be a master (but can be slaves), do not have high speed sync, and may only change in full stops in manual mode.  I have two 580EX flashes as well and for my purposes the Yongnuo's are useful alternatives.
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: wickidwombat on February 12, 2012, 06:28:26 PM
Thanks for all the replys.....


You could consider the Canon 580EX which goes for around £240 on Ebay but the II version isn't much more fetching around £275

If I can find a 580EXII for £275 that would be amazing but I have to admit I'm coming down on the 430 side at the moment, it’s fast enough as it is and if I need more a battery pack sounds like a perfect combo.

Regards
Z

I pretty sure that you will find that without a battery back your recycle times will vary wildly depending on the distance to the subject, ambient light, type of batteries, the charge left in batteries and even temperature.  Comparing best case and worst case examples you might find the recycle times are 3 times longer in the worst case.

I totally understand that money is not an infinite resource.  However, I would STRONGLY suggest that if recycle is important, spend the money and get a unit that takes an external battery pack if possible.  On a 580EX II, not only does it cut the recycle time to about 2 seconds but I can take hundreds of shots and they all have the same  2 second recycle time, even when I know the flash did a full dump.  Without the battery back I know that a 580 EX II feels like it takes 2 or 3 times longer or more to recycle.  At a wedding or any other event that you can't ask people to "stop and wait" that is a really big deal.

You can even get a knock battery unit for $50 and save a lot of money. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049JO71G/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049JO71G/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details)
I second the need for the external battery pack they are brilliant
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: briansquibb on February 12, 2012, 07:32:53 PM
Here is another way to have an onboard flash :D

(http://www.squibb.org.uk/pictures/img_7538x.jpg)
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: zim on February 12, 2012, 07:41:00 PM
 ;D ;D ;D I think the Hubble is being powered by something that looks like that!!
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: wickidwombat on February 12, 2012, 09:06:21 PM
Here is another way to have an onboard flash :D

(http://www.squibb.org.uk/pictures/img_7538x.jpg)

LOL thats great, kind of reminds me of the guy that did the wearable studio suit at burning man... but smaller

Human Light Suit: Burning Man 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k1LK6pmozs#ws)
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: Marsu42 on February 13, 2012, 01:32:29 AM
That being said, I recently picked up to Yongnuo 565EX flashes and like them so far.  They run about $150 and function similarly to the 580EX except they cannot be a master (but can be slaves), do not have high speed sync, and may only change in full stops in manual mode.

I've read that you cannot change FEC for Yongnuo flashes through the Canon menus - which would be a problem for me because I ususally put the flash somewhere else and then operate it remotely. And high speed flash is a thing I really value - freezing a bird in flight with more than 1/250s flash is really amazing.

To the OP: I own the 430EX2, I bought it because its price has dropped so much that it only costs as much as the 270EX. The good thing about the 430EX2 is that it "just works", I am usually using it as a remote slave with my 60D in combination with the internal fill flash. Faster recycle time with an external battery pack for high speed bounce shots surely would be nice, but you have to shell out much more money for that.
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: wickidwombat on February 13, 2012, 01:45:09 AM
i use the yongnuo external battery packs on all my 580exii flashes they are less than $50 each and work great, boost recycle time and last forever before you need to change batteries
Title: Re: Which Speedlite
Post by: zim on February 13, 2012, 03:13:12 PM
580exii  + yongnuo external battery pack it's the right thing to do. Just need to get the finances sorted. I'm holding on to my eye teeth, right hand and granny for the 5dblaa. anyone wanna buy a spleen?  ;D ;D ;D

Assume a 580exii will work with a new 5D!!!

Thanks eveyone for all for the advice