canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Canon General => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on August 09, 2017, 09:59:13 AM

Title: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR3]
Post by: Canon Rumors on August 09, 2017, 09:59:13 AM
Further clarification and corrections on our previous reports regarding the new tilt-shift lenses that are coming.

We’re told that we were incorrect on the TS-E 45mm f/2.8L and that it is in fact a TS-E 50mm f/2.8L Macro, the TS-E 90mm f/2.8L was correct, except that it to, will have macro functionality. We also assumed that all of the lenses are f/2.8L, but we’re told that the TS-E 135mm is actually an f/4L with macro capability.

The macro feature is 1:2 and not 1:1 across all three of the new tilt-shift lenses.

We also received further information in regards to the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS, a lens I’m looking forward to.

The new tilt-shift lenses

Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS USM

All of this is still [CR2] until we get the confirmation that makes us comfortable with upgrading the rating of the rumor. This round of lenses has been extremely hard to get information on, but we do hope we have now got the correct information.

We’re still told everything is coming at the end of August.

Update: 18:09 EST, August 12, 2017: We’ve upgraded this information to [CR3]

Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: keithcooper on August 09, 2017, 10:06:48 AM
Well, 135/4 means it might take the MT-20EX flash mount ring - still curious to see how much tilt it will take...
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ahsanford on August 09, 2017, 10:18:05 AM

50 f/2.8?  135 f/4?  Only 1:2 max mag?  Maybe they are being made in Malaysia.  :P   (I know, I know, L lenses are Japan.)

And with the 85 f/1.4L IS, something that will be demonstrably sharper, have much faster AF and an industry first f/1.4 IS is not going to be positioned anywhere other than the top of the line.  I'm simply not buying this new wrinkle of news.  This is going to be a pricey as hell lens.

- A
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 09, 2017, 10:44:18 AM
I might be tempted by the TS-E 135/4L Macro.  I wonder if these new lenses will be compatible with TCs like the current TS-E lenses.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: chrysoberyl on August 09, 2017, 10:52:30 AM
I might be tempted by the TS-E 135/4L Macro.  I wonder if these new lenses will be compatible with TCs like the current TS-E lenses.

Are they likely to be compatible with ET's?
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ritholtz on August 09, 2017, 10:59:49 AM
Canon seems to put on emphasis on macro lenses. They released cheap crop macro lens. Now this expensive bunch. They see something in the market place compared to others.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: neuroanatomist on August 09, 2017, 11:00:31 AM
Are they likely to be compatible with ET's?

Yes.  Pretty much every lens is compatible with extenstion tubes (only issues are with wider lenses and longer tubes).  A 135mm lens won't get as much benefit from standard tubes, though (you'd need to stack a few).
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: keithcooper on August 09, 2017, 11:11:58 AM
I might be tempted by the TS-E 135/4L Macro.  I wonder if these new lenses will be compatible with TCs like the current TS-E lenses.

Are they likely to be compatible with ET's?

Yes - I see a use for my rather nice Novoflex EF bellows (min 58mm extension)
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: swkitt on August 09, 2017, 11:15:01 AM
I think my old TS-E 90mm already has a macro ratio of 1:2 even if it's not called a macro lens...
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Steve Balcombe on August 09, 2017, 11:20:47 AM
The advert in the middle of this article, right in my line of sight, is a great example of why I use an ad blocker. A while ago I disabled it for this site, which I want to support, but it's going back on.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Jopa on August 09, 2017, 11:21:41 AM
It seems like a good time to say my sigma 85a farewell :(
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ahsanford on August 09, 2017, 11:30:29 AM
I think my old TS-E 90mm already has a macro ratio of 1:2 even if it's not called a macro lens...

You sure about that?  TDP says it's a 0.29x max mag (without tubes, of course).

- A
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: sdim on August 09, 2017, 11:34:19 AM
It seems like a good time to say my sigma 85a farewell :(
Me too. I wonder though why the new 85mm will be positioned between the EF EF 85 f/1.2L II and the EF 85mm f/1.8. I guess it will be the best of them all and will going to be pricey.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: keithcooper on August 09, 2017, 11:38:29 AM
I think my old TS-E 90mm already has a macro ratio of 1:2 even if it's not called a macro lens...
No, 0.29x (MFD is 0.5 metre)

Tubes info also at:

http://www.eflens.com/ef-lenses/ts_e90_28.html

Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: RGF on August 09, 2017, 11:39:35 AM
I think my old TS-E 90mm already has a macro ratio of 1:2 even if it's not called a macro lens...

You sure about that?  TDP says it's a 0.29x max mag (without tubes, of course).

- A

I thought it was 1:3 (that the Nikon was 1:2).  with an extender got to 1:2
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: jolyonralph on August 09, 2017, 11:42:10 AM
Finally, the new 50mm lens we've all been waiting for!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: keithcooper on August 09, 2017, 11:44:22 AM
> I thought it was 1:3 (that the Nikon was 1:2).  with an extender got to 1:2


No, 0.29
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ahsanford on August 09, 2017, 11:47:35 AM
Finally, the new 50mm lens we've all been waiting for!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

A pox upon you, sir -- may your 85 Art suddenly start autofocusing like a 50 Art.  ;D

- A
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: SecureGSM on August 09, 2017, 12:00:03 PM
It may well be the time, unless price tag of the new Canon 85 F1.4 IS L lens north of US$2,000.00 is something that will stop you in your tracks ;)

It seems like a good time to say my sigma 85a farewell :(
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: BeenThere on August 09, 2017, 12:05:03 PM
I think my old TS-E 90mm already has a macro ratio of 1:2 even if it's not called a macro lens...
No, 0.29x (MFD is 0.5 metre)

Tubes info also at:

http://www.eflens.com/ef-lenses/ts_e90_28.html
The flash cord may need to raised a bit 😂
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: keithcooper on August 09, 2017, 12:11:04 PM
I think my old TS-E 90mm already has a macro ratio of 1:2 even if it's not called a macro lens...
No, 0.29x (MFD is 0.5 metre)

Tubes info also at:

http://www.eflens.com/ef-lenses/ts_e90_28.html
The flash cord may need to raised a bit 😂

Actually not :-)


from http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/macro-photography-for-trade-stand/
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ahsanford on August 09, 2017, 12:39:40 PM
Keith, to client:  "Sorry, but I need more models."

Client:  "WTH happened?"

Keith:  "They didn't work out."

Keith:  [burp]

- A
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Graphic.Artifacts on August 09, 2017, 12:51:00 PM
That 85f1.4LIS can't come soon enough for me. Hope they don't go crazy on the size and weight. IQ should be stellar based on recent releases. Lost a bag of primes in a smash and grab last year and this should fill a few gaps I've been wanting to address. 72mm front thread? (Edited from 67mm as per comment below) I think that's what the 35mm f1.4 has so should be similar but 77mm would be OK as a worse case I guess. My pre-order finger is twitching in anticipation.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Ladislav on August 09, 2017, 01:00:12 PM
50/2.8 TS-E L!!! That will definitely go to my kit unless they go crazy with price. I don't even care that much about macro capability, that will be a bonus.

I'm also interested in new 85 but I don't do portraits very often so I will probably wait a while before getting one.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ahsanford on August 09, 2017, 01:08:41 PM
That 85f1.4LIS can't come soon enough for me. Hope they don't go crazy on the size and weight. IQ should be stellar based on recent releases. Lost a bag of primes in a smash and grab last year and this should fill a few gaps I've been wanting to address. 67mm front thread? I think that's what the 35mm f1.4 has so should be similar. My pre-order finger is twitching in anticipation.

67 front threads = highly unlikely, IMHO.

Sigma 85 Art = 86mm
Zeiss 85 Otus = 86mm
Zeiss 85 Milvus = 77mm

And I just don't see this being a sharp-in-the-center-only relatively compact (for it's aperture) double gauss design like we've seen in Canon's 50s.  I expect a big honking pickle jar of a lens to compete on the resolution front with Otus and Sigma. 

Canon's good at keeping the weight down compared to Sigma/Zeiss and they have made lens weight reduction a goal of late, but they simply need to jam more glass in there to compete in the 2017 market. 

If Canon puts out a lens that is clearly outresolved by Sigma and Zeiss and their only retort is "But it has IS and it's lighter!", fuhgeddaboudit.  I just don't see that happening here.  The 35L I --> 35L II got 30% heavier and jammed three more elements in there.  I expect something similar here, even (inappropriately) comparing the 85 f/1.2L II to this new 85 f/1.4L IS.

- A
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Graphic.Artifacts on August 09, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Yes your right. It didn't sound right so I checked.  I had already changed the post to 72mm before I read your reply. I was going from memory but I think that was the 35 f2 is I was recalling. Still hoping for something a bit lighter and more compact than the Art series lenses if the optics will allow. 

I like to engage in a little wishful thinking now and again. Provides some  contrast to my generally cynical view of things and keeps folks on their toes.  :)
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ahsanford on August 09, 2017, 01:19:41 PM
Yes your right. It didn't sound right so I checked.  I hade  already changed the post to 72mm before I read your reply. I was going from memory but I think that was the 35 f2 is I was recalling. Still hoping for something a bit lighter and more compact than the Art series lenses if the optics will allow. 

I like to engage in a little wishful thinking now and again. Provides some  contrast to my generally cynical view of things and keeps folks on their toes.  :)

Yes, a lens that is 'slightly less sharp than Art' + a stop slower + IS (like the wonderful 35 f/2 IS USM) surely needs to happen in the 85mm focal length.  And in the 50mm focal length.  And the...   :)

- A
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: jeffa4444 on August 09, 2017, 01:20:31 PM
Here in the UK 85mm pricing is as follows:-

Canon EF 85mm f1.2L II USM £ 1,767.00
Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM £ 327.00
Sigma 85mm f1.4 Art Canon fit £ 999,00
Tamron 85mm f1.4 SP Canon fit £ 749.00

Knowing Canon and if it is image stabilised it will come out around £ 1,499.00 however the EF 35mm f1.4L II is
£ 1,799.00 so it maybe as expensive as the f1.2L lens at launch! If so it will not deter those with the budgets for either Sigma or Tamron and be a rarefied lens for most users.

We live in hope it will be more reasonably priced. 
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: SecureGSM on August 09, 2017, 01:38:20 PM
My bet is on Canon 85 F1.4 IS L lens to be priced higher than 35 II. Blue Gunk isn't cheap these days :)

Here in the UK 85mm pricing is as follows:-

Canon EF 85mm f1.2L II USM £ 1,767.00
Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM £ 327.00
Sigma 85mm f1.4 Art Canon fit £ 999,00
Tamron 85mm f1.4 SP Canon fit £ 749.00

Knowing Canon and if it is image stabilised it will come out around £ 1,499.00 however the EF 35mm f1.4L II is
£ 1,799.00 so it maybe as expensive as the f1.2L lens at launch! If so it will not deter those with the budgets for either Sigma or Tamron and be a rarefied lens for most users.

We live in hope it will be more reasonably priced.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Graphic.Artifacts on August 09, 2017, 01:46:14 PM
Here in the UK 85mm pricing is as follows:-

Canon EF 85mm f1.2L II USM £ 1,767.00
Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM £ 327.00
Sigma 85mm f1.4 Art Canon fit £ 999,00
Tamron 85mm f1.4 SP Canon fit £ 749.00

Knowing Canon and if it is image stabilised it will come out around £ 1,499.00 however the EF 35mm f1.4L II is
£ 1,799.00 so it maybe as expensive as the f1.2L lens at launch! If so it will not deter those with the budgets for either Sigma or Tamron and be a rarefied lens for most users.

We live in hope it will be more reasonably priced.

Willing to pay a premium for IS but obviously there are limits. Canon pricing doesn't always follow a rational formula. Wishful thinking maybe but I'm hoping for something a good bit under $1500 US. Assuming it really is intended to fall between the two existing 85's
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: ahsanford on August 09, 2017, 02:11:02 PM
Willing to pay a premium for IS but obviously there are limits. Canon pricing doesn't always follow a rational formula. Wishful thinking maybe but I'm hoping for something a good bit under $1500 US. Assuming it really is intended to fall between the two existing 85's

Sometimes Canon is eye-rollingly greedy:  Non-L 24/28/35 IS lenses initially being sold for $799-849, 24-70 f/4L IS for $1499 immediately come to mind.  All of those are great lenses, but the market simply wouldn't bear those prices and they were dramatically reduced -- and not reduced over time like for older lenses, they took a large pricing delta that one could presume was a market course-correction.

But sometimes Canon wows us with reasonableness: the 16-35 f/4L IS was a wonderful surprise.  The great landscape lens we had been waiting so long for didn't cost us a mint.

But a world's first f/1.4 IS prime -- an L lens to boot -- is not going to be cheap at all.  I appreciate it's not f/1.2, but if it has:


...it will cost a ton.  I see this lens comfortably sitting in the $1500-2000 range.  It might technically come in under the 85 f/1.2L II for asking price, but it can't possibly be a reasonably priced 'middle' price point between the f/1.2L II and 85 f/1.8 unless Canon does something none of us are expecting, like:
 

And that list above seems quite improbable.  My money's all-in on a big/performance/expensive lens.

- A
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: cgc on August 09, 2017, 02:26:32 PM
I have a question about TS-E "long" lenses for architecture.

For architecture it is extremely useful shifting a wide angle lens: it removes the highly distorted areas close to the photographer, placing more emphasis in the subject and augmenting the "effective" wide angle (e.g. more room for the top of the buildings).

I feel the need of shifting even at 35mm (I sometimes even instinctively drive my hand to the unexistent knob!  :) ) but I assume that at 45mm the amount of shifting will be really low to keep the image beautiful (too much shifting may be unnatural/ugly even at 17mm). I was interested in the 45 TS-E (I have not bought it mostly because is old and unsharp) but if the new replacement is even longer, at 50mm, I wonder if the shifting allowance for proper architectural shots still justifies it.

Those using the 45mm for architecture... how much do you typically shift it?

Maybe a normal 50mm lens slightly corrected for keystoning will suffice, if I were to shift it by only 1 or 2 mm. There are lot of choices at 50mm in normal lenses (ok, not yet any one interesting from Canon) also more suitable for other non-architectural uses, for those of us which don't plain to tilt.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: LDS on August 09, 2017, 02:35:40 PM
50 f/2.8?  135 f/4?  Only 1:2 max mag?  Maybe they are being made in Malaysia.  :P

I wouldn't rule out these TS will be made in Malaysia. After all till now they weren't "L", and maybe the current ones are already made in Malaysia, AFAIK that plant is specialized in manufacturing EF lenses and pentaprisms - and maybe Canon will still manufacture there anyway, who knows?
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: NorbR on August 09, 2017, 03:03:47 PM
Positioned between the EF EF 85 f/1.2L II and the EF 85mm f/1.8</li>
Same styling as the new EF 35mm f/1.4L II</li>
Fast AF and a 4 stop effective IS.</li>

This might be my favourite CR post ever. All of this is awesome news.
If the new 85mm comes at a cheaper price point than the 85/1.2, I will press that pre-order button so fast, I might break a couple of fingers in the process  :-[
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: keithcooper on August 09, 2017, 04:27:53 PM
I have a question about TS-E "long" lenses for architecture.

For architecture it is extremely useful shifting a wide angle lens: it removes the highly distorted areas close to the photographer, placing more emphasis in the subject and augmenting the "effective" wide angle (e.g. more room for the top of the buildings).

I feel the need of shifting even at 35mm (I sometimes even instinctively drive my hand to the unexistent knob!  :) ) but I assume that at 45mm the amount of shifting will be really low to keep the image beautiful (too much shifting may be unnatural/ugly even at 17mm). I was interested in the 45 TS-E (I have not bought it mostly because is old and unsharp) but if the new replacement is even longer, at 50mm, I wonder if the shifting allowance for proper architectural shots still justifies it.

Those using the 45mm for architecture... how much do you typically shift it?

Maybe a normal 50mm lens slightly corrected for keystoning will suffice, if I were to shift it by only 1 or 2 mm. There are lot of choices at 50mm in normal lenses (ok, not yet any one interesting from Canon) also more suitable for other non-architectural uses, for those of us which don't plain to tilt.

A Mamiya 210mm shifted ... I have an adapter for my 35/55/80 and 210mm lenses

The 35 and 55 are the only ones I've actually used much.

Usually just enough to get verticals OK, or shunt the horizon down lower in the frame, to prevent lampposts/trees leaning inwards

It's the lack of use of these that primarily persuaded me not to get the TS-E45 (I use the 17 and 24 a lot)

I find the 17 harder to use well, but well worth the practice, since it gets far more shots that are 'noticed' and favourably commented on by architectural clients, especially for big prints (where the 'excesses' are less noticeable)
I always smile when people authoritatively tell me that 17mm is 'too wide', especially when I stitch up/down TS-E17 shots to get a very wide square shot :-)

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/using-645-mf-lenses-as-shift-lenses/

The 50mm may be of interest if it's really top notch optically - The 90mm will need to be really special to replace my ts-e90, and the 135?? I just need to try that one out, maybe for macro with bellows.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: jolyonralph on August 09, 2017, 05:18:22 PM
A pox upon you, sir -- may your 85 Art suddenly start autofocusing like a 50 Art.  ;D

If my 35 Art suddenly started autofocusing like, um, any decent lens at all, then I'd be happy.

Doubt I'll ever buy another Sigma.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: BillB on August 09, 2017, 06:18:52 PM
Willing to pay a premium for IS but obviously there are limits. Canon pricing doesn't always follow a rational formula. Wishful thinking maybe but I'm hoping for something a good bit under $1500 US. Assuming it really is intended to fall between the two existing 85's

Sometimes Canon is eye-rollingly greedy:  Non-L 24/28/35 IS lenses initially being sold for $799-849, 24-70 f/4L IS for $1499 immediately come to mind.  All of those are great lenses, but the market simply wouldn't bear those prices and they were dramatically reduced -- and not reduced over time like for older lenses, they took a large pricing delta that one could presume was a market course-correction.

But sometimes Canon wows us with reasonableness: the 16-35 f/4L IS was a wonderful surprise.  The great landscape lens we had been waiting so long for didn't cost us a mint.

But a world's first f/1.4 IS prime -- an L lens to boot -- is not going to be cheap at all.  I appreciate it's not f/1.2, but if it has:

  • Ring USM with FTM mechanical focusing
  • Sharpness in same neighborhood as the 85 Art or Otus
  • BR gunk inside

...it will cost a ton.  I see this lens comfortably sitting in the $1500-2000 range.  It might technically come in under the 85 f/1.2L II for asking price, but it can't possibly be a reasonably priced 'middle' price point between the f/1.2L II and 85 f/1.8 unless Canon does something none of us are expecting, like:
 
  • Canon puts Nano USM in it / keeps it focus by wire (seems insane, but it's a win for video)
  • Canon doesn't weather seal it (inconceivable for a new L prime in 2017)
  • Canon goes for a much smaller/lighter double gauss design that will not compete resolution-wise with the competition (why? that's what you do with the 85 f/1.8 refresh, not an L lens)

And that list above seems quite improbable.  My money's all-in on a big/performance/expensive lens.

- A

I'm struck by the number of Canon primes in the 85-100mm range, and there are also a bunch of zooms covering the range too.  Not sure where the 85 f1.4 IS would be most likely to fit in.  Very high performance?  Yes.  Pickle jar big?  Not so sure.  Maybe the slot is as a high end workhorse that would pair up with the 35LII.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Bennymiata on August 09, 2017, 07:14:41 PM
The 50mm tse sounds like it will be great for product shots.
Can't wait to try one out.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Normalnorm on August 09, 2017, 07:47:30 PM
I have a question about TS-E "long" lenses for architecture.

For architecture it is extremely useful shifting a wide angle lens: it removes the highly distorted areas close to the photographer, placing more emphasis in the subject and augmenting the "effective" wide angle (e.g. more room for the top of the buildings).

I feel the need of shifting even at 35mm (I sometimes even instinctively drive my hand to the unexistent knob!  :) ) but I assume that at 45mm the amount of shifting will be really low to keep the image beautiful (too much shifting may be unnatural/ugly even at 17mm). I was interested in the 45 TS-E (I have not bought it mostly because is old and unsharp) but if the new replacement is even longer, at 50mm, I wonder if the shifting allowance for proper architectural shots still justifies it.

Those using the 45mm for architecture... how much do you typically shift it?

Maybe a normal 50mm lens slightly corrected for keystoning will suffice, if I were to shift it by only 1 or 2 mm. There are lot of choices at 50mm in normal lenses (ok, not yet any one interesting from Canon) also more suitable for other non-architectural uses, for those of us which don't plain to tilt.

I never use a TS lens longer than 24mm for architecture.
The plain fact is that if you need a longer lens to achieve the AOV you want you are far enough away that the keystoning issues are minimal.

I use a 50 or 85 on rare occasions and only have to use a touch of adjustment in PS on the 50 only.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Hector1970 on August 10, 2017, 03:48:31 AM
What would the three different lens be useful for in terms of macro. Would the they have different uses? What would be advantage of 50mm over 90mm or 135mm. Does a 135mm give you a bigger practical magnification? Is it just a focal length thing i.e. A wider field of view at 50mm. Would a 50mm have a shorter focussing distance?
How better than a 100mm macro would these be. Would I get an equivalent say F22 depth of field at F2.8.
Will exposure fool the camera like it does when shift or tilt one of the current TS-E lens (I use the 24mm TS-E currently)
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: keithcooper on August 10, 2017, 04:19:12 AM
What would the three different lens be useful for in terms of macro. Would the they have different uses? What would be advantage of 50mm over 90mm or 135mm. Does a 135mm give you a bigger practical magnification? Is it just a focal length thing i.e. A wider field of view at 50mm. Would a 50mm have a shorter focussing distance?
How better than a 100mm macro would these be. Would I get an equivalent say F22 depth of field at F2.8.
Will exposure fool the camera like it does when shift or tilt one of the current TS-E lens (I use the 24mm TS-E currently)
At the same magnification, the working distance changes with focal length, and as such the perspective changes too - just like at 'normal' scales.

Effective aperture and effective focal length all change once you get close - just how depends on lens design, as well as distance.

Auto exposure and tilt/shift don't work well together - I shoot macro and tilt/shift fully manually for all the stuff I do (industrial macro and architecture are both parts of my 'day job')

Add in flash heads, and they are all set manually too - in this area, 'auto' just becomes too unpredictable

Macro -and- T/S ?  No way would I be using auto anything ;-)
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: Antono Refa on August 10, 2017, 05:00:55 AM
I'm struck by the number of Canon primes in the 85-100mm range, and there are also a bunch of zooms covering the range too.  Not sure where the 85 f1.4 IS would be most likely to fit in.  Very high performance?  Yes.  Pickle jar big?  Not so sure.  Maybe the slot is as a high end workhorse that would pair up with the 35LII.

There are five primes in the 85-100mm range:

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

TS-E 90mm f/2.8

EF 100mm f/2 USM
EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

Taking into account abilities targeted at specific audiences (portraiture, architecture, macro) and price points, I think five lenses is a reasonable number of lenses.

Yes, there are at least a dozen zoom lenses covering that range. Proves how useful it is.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: symmar22 on August 10, 2017, 07:20:03 AM
I have a question about TS-E "long" lenses for architecture.

For architecture it is extremely useful shifting a wide angle lens: it removes the highly distorted areas close to the photographer, placing more emphasis in the subject and augmenting the "effective" wide angle (e.g. more room for the top of the buildings).

I feel the need of shifting even at 35mm (I sometimes even instinctively drive my hand to the unexistent knob!  :) ) but I assume that at 45mm the amount of shifting will be really low to keep the image beautiful (too much shifting may be unnatural/ugly even at 17mm). I was interested in the 45 TS-E (I have not bought it mostly because is old and unsharp) but if the new replacement is even longer, at 50mm, I wonder if the shifting allowance for proper architectural shots still justifies it.

Those using the 45mm for architecture... how much do you typically shift it?

Maybe a normal 50mm lens slightly corrected for keystoning will suffice, if I were to shift it by only 1 or 2 mm. There are lot of choices at 50mm in normal lenses (ok, not yet any one interesting from Canon) also more suitable for other non-architectural uses, for those of us which don't plain to tilt.

I use all 4 TS-E as my main lenses for work, the 17 mainly for interiors, the 24 and 45 for architecture outside and indoors, the 90 for details, architecture when I have enough distance and in the studio for product photography.

The answer to how much shift is as much as I need. The main problem with the 45 TS-E is to deal with the terrible chroma, the cyan/red can be mostly removed in post, but then some purple fringing comes when you shift a bit. Actually, mine is very sharp (on a 5DSr), when used properly.

The other problem is the very curved field of focus, that forces to use f11 (mostly f16 in my case) to have it sharp from corner to corner. It seems it is one of the TS-E whith a lot of  copy variation, I got 2 of them, the first one had a very different behaviour from the one I use now, Brian on the Digital Picture seems to agree with me. I love the lens, but it's tricky to use, tripod always, careful focusing on the side of the frame, and stop down like hell, you'll get excellent results with a bit of post processing.

Hence I am a bit disappointed by the 50mm focal length of the new one, I was actually hoping for a 40mm, much more useful in architecture, as a true "normal" lens.

The difference might seem trivial, but as a view camera user, the 150mm is my normal lens, I never could get used to the 180mm that is a 50mm equivalent. The real "standard" lens for 24x36mm is 43mm.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: H. Jones on August 10, 2017, 01:58:49 PM
I swear every time I hear an update on the 85mm f/1.4L IS Canon is deliberately trying to get me to switch to using primes. So far every detail has practically been the ideal prime for me and it's just getting better each time. "Between" the f/1.2 and f/1.8? I swear Canon, I'm not a big prime lens guy, but if this lens costs even a dollar less than the 85mm f/1.2L II right now, I'm probably gonna end up pre-ordering it..

I was incredibly surprised by the 16-35mm f/4L IS, so here's hoping Canon does it again.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: -1 on August 10, 2017, 05:01:37 PM
I swear every time I hear an update on the 85mm f/1.4L IS Canon is deliberately trying to get me to switch to using primes. So far every detail has practically been the ideal prime for me and it's just getting better each time. "Between" the f/1.2 and f/1.8? I swear Canon, I'm not a big prime lens guy, but if this lens costs even a dollar less than the 85mm f/1.2L II right now, I'm probably gonna end up pre-ordering it..

I was incredibly surprised by the 16-35mm f/4L IS, so here's hoping Canon does it again.

The 85mm is a good match to a WA zoom like a 16-35mm. The classic PJ combo for the trenches was a 35 and a 90 on the Leica M2s...

I have a Takumar 85/1.9 and a 17-40/4 L for my 1D2. Plus the EF-M 22/2.0 and the FD 50/1.8 for the EOS-M...
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: GMCPhotographics on August 11, 2017, 06:12:28 AM
I think my old TS-E 90mm already has a macro ratio of 1:2 even if it's not called a macro lens...

You sure about that?  TDP says it's a 0.29x max mag (without tubes, of course).

- A

The TSe 90mm was often used for product / food photography, not for it's macro abilities but for it's Schlemflug principle...and that it's a telephoto. It can easily throw things in and out of focus really nicely, especially for that particular application. Having a lens that can do that and focus closer is only going to add to the ease of that particular application...although it does increase the need for a tripod. Tse's are best podded in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR2]
Post by: H. Jones on August 11, 2017, 01:21:40 PM
I swear every time I hear an update on the 85mm f/1.4L IS Canon is deliberately trying to get me to switch to using primes. So far every detail has practically been the ideal prime for me and it's just getting better each time. "Between" the f/1.2 and f/1.8? I swear Canon, I'm not a big prime lens guy, but if this lens costs even a dollar less than the 85mm f/1.2L II right now, I'm probably gonna end up pre-ordering it..

I was incredibly surprised by the 16-35mm f/4L IS, so here's hoping Canon does it again.

The 85mm is a good match to a WA zoom like a 16-35mm. The classic PJ combo for the trenches was a 35 and a 90 on the Leica M2s...

I have a Takumar 85/1.9 and a 17-40/4 L for my 1D2. Plus the EF-M 22/2.0 and the FD 50/1.8 for the EOS-M...

I got a 35mm f/1.4L II loaned to me by CPS a while ago and used it on a few assignments and loved it--I could totally see this lens and the 35mm being all I really need on most feature/general news assignments. That said, it would be really tough for me to live without my 24-70mm f/2.8L II close at hand--that lens has been through hell and back with me and has always gotten the job done.
 
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR3]
Post by: photojoern.de on August 16, 2017, 07:35:39 AM
Can anybody explain me why this should create a hype? I wonder why Canon put effort into these lenses. Who the heck is using the tilt shift lenses around 40mm and longer? For what? Very much niche photography, isn´t it? I use a 17mm Tilt shift, which is nice in some cases of archicecture photography, but I never felt that I would miss anything around 35mm or more tele. Please help me out.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR3]
Post by: keithcooper on August 16, 2017, 08:39:49 AM
Can anybody explain me why this should create a hype? I wonder why Canon put effort into these lenses. Who the heck is using the tilt shift lenses around 40mm and longer? For what? Very much niche photography, isn´t it? I use a 17mm Tilt shift, which is nice in some cases of archicecture photography, but I never felt that I would miss anything around 35mm or more tele. Please help me out.
Well, I use the TS-E90 (with and without ex tubes) for product work

As to the longer focal lengths for architecture, I went out yesterday to remind myself about the 35/55mm Mamiya MF lenses I use with a shift adapter - not often, but the give a useful 'extra' to my normal use of the TS-E17 and TS-E24

Up/Down stitched shot at 55mm

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/shift-lens-50mm/

Partly to answer my own curiosity at to whether I want/need a TS-E 50mm ?

The 135 is a very likely buy for my small product work such as the Gummy bears pic I posted earlier

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/macro-photography-for-trade-stand/

Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR3]
Post by: sulla on August 19, 2017, 09:06:25 AM
I wonder - read: doubt - whether you would see any noticeable effect from that 210mm shifted lens example a few posts earlier. The perspective shift that a 210mm lens permits will be minimal...

I already do not find the perspective-shift of my TS-E 90 to be dramatic. A shifted TS 135mm lens will have even less of a perspective change. The only use I find with shifting the TS 90 is to correct for image shift while tilting.

Tilting a 135mm lens, however, will be extremely useful.
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR3]
Post by: keithcooper on August 19, 2017, 11:28:18 AM
I wonder - read: doubt - whether you would see any noticeable effect from that 210mm shifted lens example a few posts earlier. The perspective shift that a 210mm lens permits will be minimal...

The only reason that 210mm is in the list was that it was in the 25/55/85/210 collection of Mamiya lenses I have, and it seemed a shame to leave it out ;-)

It's always there, if I need it, but as yet the need has never arisen...
Title: Re: Clarification & Corrections on the Upcoming New Lenses from Canon [CR3]
Post by: sulla on August 19, 2017, 11:44:11 AM
The only reason that 210mm is in the list was that it was in the 25/55/85/210 collection of Mamiya lenses I have, and it seemed a shame to leave it out ;-)
Nice demo, then!