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Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: unfocused on February 09, 2018, 01:34:01 PM

Title: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: unfocused on February 09, 2018, 01:34:01 PM
I wonder if anyone else notices this. When I shoot with the 5DIV and the 1DXII side by side, I often notice that the files from the 5DIV are noticeably darker (underexposed).

I don't generally have much of a problem bringing up the exposure in Camera Raw, so I guess it doesn't really matter, but I just wonder if anyone else has experienced this as well. It's as though the 5DIV is relying on the sensor's ability to recover shadow detail to claim ISO sensitivity that is actually about one-stop less than the native sensitivity of the 1DxII.
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: dak723 on February 09, 2018, 03:33:53 PM
While not addressing your specific question, I have found that exposure differences between the same model cameras is common, so I would imagine differences with different models would occur too.  When I first bought a 6D, it underexposed the shots enough so I returned it.  The next one overexposed and it wasn't until the third one that I thought it was right on.  With the M5, it was similar - the first one underexposed by almost a full stop, returned it for a new one which is right on.  Even bigger differences when I tried the Sony A7 II (undersxposed by about 1 1/2 stops, then tried the A7 and it was "only" one stop underexposed.  I've had two Olympus E-M1's over they years and they were a bit different, too.  Apparently exposure control is very difficult to get precisely correct. 
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: Viggo on February 09, 2018, 04:17:14 PM
My 1dx2 also underexposes like crazy, but, so does every single camera on the planet. I have offset my 0 ev with the AE adjustment in camera to +7/8, and often go a bit above that also.

Does the 5d4 also have that option? In that case you could match them.
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: YuengLinger on February 09, 2018, 04:50:33 PM
My 5DIV exposes brighter than my 5DIII !
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: mistaspeedy on February 09, 2018, 06:39:02 PM
Im not going to comment on the autoexposure settings, but on the sensor sensitivity itself...  if you manually set the same ISO, Aperture and shutter speed...  DXOmark has some data:
https://pasteboard.co/H6UoUmv.jpg (https://pasteboard.co/H6UoUmv.jpg)

Long story short, according to their tests, 1DX mark II and 5D mark IV should expose identically.
However, the 5D mark III should expose a bit brighter at the same settings.
It seems the older cameras are closer to the 'real ISO' rating, whilst newer cameras tend to cheat a little bit. All manufacturers do this.
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: Don Haines on February 09, 2018, 07:02:18 PM
I notice about 2/3 of a stop between my cameras.....  I think that we are going to have to get used to a bit of variation.....

7D, 5D2, and 6D all agree, 7D2 overexposed 1/3 and 6D2 is underexposed 1/3.

My phone nails it😸
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: Ryananthony on February 09, 2018, 07:19:54 PM
Cant speak for either of your cameras unfortunately, but I noticed my 5d3 was noticeably darker then my 1dx as well.
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: YuengLinger on February 09, 2018, 07:33:00 PM
My best for exposure, if going by the center of the number line vs the histogram vs what I see on my calibrated monitor...80D!
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: sanj on February 09, 2018, 09:22:13 PM
Yes. Both cameras underexpose a bit. And this works for me as highlights are preserved.
I often find that the histogram does not touch to the right. Good good.

No matter who says what about Sony, Nikon etc, I have no problem opening blacks in Canon by a stop or 2. Win win situation.

If I shoot manual mode and use the histogram as guide I shoot to the right but am very careful not to touch the far end. Of course there are exceptions in extreme situations.
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: Dantana on February 09, 2018, 09:23:10 PM
Are they metering differently or exposing differently with same meter reading?
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: Nelu on February 09, 2018, 10:59:15 PM
Yes. Both cameras underexpose a bit. And this works for me as highlights are preserved.
I often find that the histogram does not touch to the right. Good good.

No matter who says what about Sony, Nikon etc, I have no problem opening blacks in Canon by a stop or 2. Win win situation.
Yes, you can brighten one or two stops...or can you?
https://digital-photography-school.com/exposing-to-the-right/ (https://digital-photography-school.com/exposing-to-the-right/)

I pretty much always overexpose one or two stops when possible and then get the "correct" exposure in Lightroom.
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: sanj on February 09, 2018, 11:53:16 PM
Yes. Both cameras underexpose a bit. And this works for me as highlights are preserved.
I often find that the histogram does not touch to the right. Good good.

No matter who says what about Sony, Nikon etc, I have no problem opening blacks in Canon by a stop or 2. Win win situation.
Yes, you can brighten one or two stops...or can you?
https://digital-photography-school.com/exposing-to-the-right/ (https://digital-photography-school.com/exposing-to-the-right/)

I pretty much always overexpose one or two stops when possible and then get the "correct" exposure in Lightroom.

Yeah yeah. When shooting slowly in manual mode sure. But when on the run and on auto, I prefer to save the whites.
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: Larsskv on February 10, 2018, 03:18:09 AM
I wonder if anyone else notices this. When I shoot with the 5DIV and the 1DXII side by side, I often notice that the files from the 5DIV are noticeably darker (underexposed).

I don't generally have much of a problem bringing up the exposure in Camera Raw, so I guess it doesn't really matter, but I just wonder if anyone else has experienced this as well. It's as though the 5DIV is relying on the sensor's ability to recover shadow detail to claim ISO sensitivity that is actually about one-stop less than the native sensitivity of the 1DxII.

I have made the same experience as you. I usually use AV mode on both 1DXII and 5DIV, and generally the 5DIV files seems to be exposed a bit darker. I prefer the 1DXII exposures.

A time ago, I noticed that my (former) 7DII and 5Ds generally exposed more to the right than the 6D, and were close to clipping the highlights, but mostly not doing so. The 1DXII and 5DIV seems to expose more like the 6D. I suspect the exposure strategy used in the 7DII and 5Ds was chosen due to the lack of exposure latitude compared to their competition (D810/A7R). A brighter exposure made the lack of shadow lifting capability less important. With the better (at shadow lifting) sensors used in the 1DXII and 5DIV, Canon is back at their former 6D-like exposure strategy, which better preserve the highlights.

Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: YuengLinger on February 10, 2018, 07:45:00 AM
I wonder if anyone else notices this. When I shoot with the 5DIV and the 1DXII side by side, I often notice that the files from the 5DIV are noticeably darker (underexposed).

I don't generally have much of a problem bringing up the exposure in Camera Raw, so I guess it doesn't really matter, but I just wonder if anyone else has experienced this as well. It's as though the 5DIV is relying on the sensor's ability to recover shadow detail to claim ISO sensitivity that is actually about one-stop less than the native sensitivity of the 1DxII.

I have made the same experience as you. I usually use AV mode on both 1DXII and 5DIV, and generally the 5DIV files seems to be exposed a bit darker. I prefer the 1DXII exposures.

A time ago, I noticed that my (former) 7DII and 5Ds generally exposed more to the right than the 6D, and were close to clipping the highlights, but mostly not doing so. The 1DXII and 5DIV seems to expose more like the 6D. I suspect the exposure strategy used in the 7DII and 5Ds was chosen due to the lack of exposure latitude compared to their competition (D810/A7R). A brighter exposure made the lack of shadow lifting capability less important. With the better (at shadow lifting) sensors used in the 1DXII and 5DIV, Canon is back at their former 6D-like exposure strategy, which better preserve the highlights.

So are we headed in the direction of believing that this is all about manufacturing tolerances? Just variance and not some strategy that applies to different bodies?
Title: Re: Exposure Differences 5DIV vs. 1DxII
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on February 10, 2018, 04:43:32 PM
The cameras will expose differently because their exposure systems are different, and they will view some scenes differently.

My 5D MK IV over exposes indoors, but its just the scene and lighting.  In a outdoor scene that is typical, it exposes perfectly.

When I use a longer lens so that the subject fills the frame, the exposure is perfect, or if I use spot exposure, the subject is properly exposed.  Sometimes center weighted exposure solves the issue.

I do a trial before a shoot to find which method is giving the best exposure for the lighting and use that.

When you put two cameras side by side and they have different exposure sensors, expect to find differences for the same scene.

Here are the 1DX II Specs:

  Metering modes   Approx. 360,000-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor, 216-zone metering. EOS Intelligent Subject Analysis system
 (1) Evaluative metering (linked to All AF point)
 (2) Partial metering (approx. 6.2% of viewfinder at centre)
 (3) Spot metering:
 Center spot metering (approx. 1.5% viewfinder at centre)
 AF point-linked spot metering
 Multi-spot metering
 (4) Centre weighted average metering


The 5D Mark IV Specs:

  Approx. 150,000-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor, 252-zone metering. EOS Intelligent Subject Analysis system
 (1) Evaluative metering (linked to All AF point)
 (2) Partial metering (approx. 6.1% of viewfinder at centre)
 (3) Spot metering: Center spot metering (approx. 1.3% viewfinder at centre)
 AF point-linked spot metering not provided
 (4) Centre weighted average metering